Dragic had 21, 5 and 8 today on 59% shooting

[masonanddixon]

Dude is at 51% FG for the season now, 3.6 rebs, and 4 assists a game.

How in the hell is he not elite???

[Dragic4Life]

Still yet to play in the ASG. Fkin' joke of a league.:facepalm

[keep-itreal]

Dragic to the Spurs.

New era:rockon:

[masonanddixon]

Still yet to play in the ASG. Fkin' joke of a league.:facepalm

Only Lillard and Curry right now are playing better in the West. But you also have Harden and Monta Ellis,...

[TylerOO]

Is that supposed to impress me?

[UK2K]

Dude is at 51% FG for the season now, 3.6 rebs, and 4 assists a game.

How in the hell is he not elite???

I remember my first game

[Fudge]

Only likeable player on that scummy Phoenix team.

Trade Bledsoe, dump those annoying Morris twins deep in the Atlantic, get rid of Isaiah for a bag of skittles, and the Suns should be better than they are right now.

[plowking]

So he had a game today that Cuttino Mobley essentially averaged in his prime, and I'm supposed to be impressed?

[coin24]

Still yet to play in the ASG. Fkin' joke of a league.:facepalm


All star??:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[oarabbus]

Dude is at 51% FG for the season now, 3.6 rebs, and 4 assists a game.

How in the hell is he not elite???

Better PGs in the West:

Curry
Paul
Westbrook
Lillard
Conley

[keep-itreal]

Better PGs in the West:

Curry
Paul
Westbrook
Lillard
Conley
:roll:

[JohnMax]

http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/v1/compositions/111099542/views/1,width=280,height=280,appearanceId=1.png/what-are-you-doing-dragic-white-value_design.png

http://www.tremendousupsidepotential.com/img/derrick-rose-goran-dragic.jpg

[masonanddixon]

Better PGs in the West:

Curry
Paul
Westbrook
Lillard
Conley

Conley? Hells to the no.

Westbrook has been playing like ass, talking idiotic shots and making none of them these past two weeks.

Lillars and Curry I am fine by...

[plowking]

Better PGs in the West:

Curry
Paul
Westbrook
Lillard
Conley

Lawson, Parker, Bledsoe, even Rondo.

I'm not sure I'd take him over Reggie Jackson either.

[masonanddixon]

Is that supposed to impress me?

What impresses you, then?

Thats like a typical game for him and he's been playing out of position all season...only a handful of players in the NBA could do that.

[TylerOO]

What impresses you, then?

Thats like a typical game for him and he's been playing out of position all season...only a handful of players in the NBA could do that.

If that was a typical game for him, you wouldn't be making a thread about it. Guy is averaging 16/4/4 :roll: Who gives a flying **** about him?

[UK2K]

What impresses you, then?

Thats like a typical game for him and he's been playing out of position all season...only a handful of players in the NBA could do that.
There are 16 other players that average 16.7, 3.9, 3.6, including Kobe.

Kobe.

Dude has a PER of 17.

He's not an all-star. Not even close.

[masonanddixon]

There are 16 other players that average 16.7, 3.9, 3.6, including Kobe.

Kobe.

Dude has a PER of 17.

He's not an all-star. Not even close.

Way to ignore percentages, winning, and defense. It's obvious you don't watch him.

[masonanddixon]

If that was a typical game for him, you wouldn't be making a thread about it. Guy is averaging 16/4/4 :roll: Who gives a flying **** about him?

On absolutely elite FG%. The only people who don't understand how elite he is are causal fans and fools.

[imdaman99]

Please stop making threads about him everyday. We get it, you are his stan.

[masonanddixon]

Please stop making threads about him everyday. We get it, you are his stan.

yeah we need more threads about lebron and kobe every day

[UK2K]

Way to ignore percentages, winning, and defense. It's obvious you don't watch him.

Corey Joseph
10.1 ppg, 3.2 apg, 3.2 rpg, 16.3 PER, 53% shooting, in 25 mpg

Goran Dragic
16.7 ppg, 3.9 apg, 3.6 rpg, 17.5 PER, 51% shooting, in 33 mpg

Eric Bledsoe
16.4 ppg, 6.0 apg, 5.2 rpg, 18.77 PER, 44% shooting, in 33 mpg.

Yeah, he's super elite.

[masonanddixon]

Corey Joseph
10.1 ppg, 3.2 apg, 3.2 rpg, 16.3 PER, 53% shooting, in 25 mpg

Goran Dragic
16.7 ppg, 3.9 apg, 3.6 rpg, 17.5 PER, 51% shooting, in 33 mpg

Eric Bledsoe
16.4 ppg, 6.0 apg, 5.2 rpg, 18.77 PER, 44% shooting, in 33 mpg.

Yeah, he's super elite.

What was your excuse when he was at 21/7 last season at 51% FG, 40% 3PtFG%?

Way to completely ignore context. Or do you assume an infinite number of basketballs in Suns games?

[UK2K]

What was your excuse when he was at 21/7 last season at 51% FG, 40% 3PtFG%?

Way to completely ignore context. Or do you assume an infinite number of basketballs in Suns games?

There was no excuse. Go back and look, I was one of the ones who said Dragic got cheated out of the ASG.

Fact is, he's not putting up those numbers this year. If you had made this thread last season, I'd be right there with ya.

[masonanddixon]

There was no excuse. Go back and look, I was one of the ones who said Dragic got cheated out of the ASG.

Fact is, he's not putting up those numbers this year. If you had made this thread last season, I'd be right there with ya.

He takes 13 shots a game and has to play off guard with Thomas and Bledsoe in the game...how much more can you expect?

Get rid of Bledsoe and Thomas and he'd be back to his 2013-2014 stats

[plowking]

What was your excuse when he was at 21/7 last season at 51% FG, 40% 3PtFG%?

Way to completely ignore context. Or do you assume an infinite number of basketballs in Suns games?

He averaged 20/6 last season on a non playoff team. Prime Cuttino Mobley numbers.

Never been a top 10 PG in the league.

[masonanddixon]

He averaged 20/6 last season on a non playoff team. Prime Cuttino Mobley numbers.

Never been a top 10 PG in the league.

21/7 on a 48 win team that missed the postseason by one game.

And dominated all the league's best PGs along the way.

[UK2K]

He takes 13 shots a game and has to play off guard with Thomas and Bledsoe in the game...how much more can you expect?

Get rid of Bledsoe and Thomas and he'd be back to his 2013-2014 stats

Ok, and until that time, he's just a 'good' player, not an all-star.

Wes Matthews also takes 13 shots per game, and averages 16 points per game on 47% shooting, and plays elite level defense. Is he an all-star too?

[masonanddixon]

Ok, and until that time, he's just a 'good' player, not an all-star.

Wes Matthews also takes 13 shots per game, and averages 16 points per game on 47% shooting, and plays elite level defense. Is he an all-star too?

Wes Matthews is a role player who scores off set shots. Dragic is the focus of the opposing defense. You're completely ignoring context.

[UK2K]

Wes Matthews is a role player who scores off set shots. Dragic is the focus of the opposing defense. You're completely ignoring context.

Dragic
2pt FG assisted - 43%
3pt FG assisted - 73%
Usage rate - 21.6%

Matthews
2pt FG assisted - 40%
3pt FG assisted - 86%
Usage rate - 19.8%

We can do this all day. They have the ball in their hands a similar % of the time, and have their shots assisted on a similar percentage.

I'm not saying I would take Matthews over Dragic, I'm saying Dragic's #'s THIS season are not impressive.

[masonanddixon]

Dragic
2pt FG assisted - 43%
3pt FG assisted - 73%
Usage rate - 21.6%

Matthews
2pt FG assisted - 40%
3pt FG assisted - 86%
Usage rate - 19.8%

We can do this all day. They have the ball in their hands a similar % of the time, and have their shots assisted on a similar percentage.

I'm not saying I would take Matthews over Dragic, I'm saying Dragic's #'s THIS season are not impressive.

Or we could just watch the actual games. I have literally never heard anyone say 'We need to gameplan for Wes Matthews.' He's a role player, clearly behind Aldridge and Lillard and even with Batum.

[livingby3's]

I guess nobody really hates on or want to bash Dragic, if you're a true fan n not just another gimmick account, just lay off him already. You causing unnecessary hate on a good dude.

Dragic doesn't have the best scenario for him to display his game now. Hope Phoenix does something soon. I just hope we make the playoffs n the team grows from there.

[masonanddixon]

I guess nobody really hates on or want to bash Dragic, if you're a true fan n not just another gimmick account, just lay off him already. You causing unnecessary hate on a good dude.

Dragic doesn't have the best scenario for him to display his game now. Hope Phoenix does something soon. I just hope we make the playoffs n the team grows from there.

I do it to raise awareness of his play. Much like any fan. Why have a message board if you're going to discourage earnest discussion?

[masonanddixon]

If we are going to fixate on stats, then how is Lillard better than Goran?

These are his stats in 2014-2015

22.1 PPG on 46% FG, 6.2 assists, 4.7 rebounds a game

[UK2K]

If we are going to fixate on stats, then how is Lillard better than Goran?

These are his stats in 2014-2015

22.1 PPG on 46% FG, 6.2 assists, 4.7 rebounds a game
Like this:

22.1 > 16.7

6.2 > 3.9

4.7 > 3.6

[masonanddixon]

Like this:

22.1 > 16.7

6.2 > 3.9

4.7 > 3.6

And thats not a function of his handling the ball far more? Unbelievable. And isn't the fact Goran shoots 6% better a significant difference?

[ImKobe]

He takes 13 shots a game and has to play off guard with Thomas and Bledsoe in the game...how much more can you expect?

Get rid of Bledsoe and Thomas and he'd be back to his 2013-2014 stats

Dude, fact is that his numbers/role does not warrant him an all-star spot THIS YEAR. Yeah he was great last season, he's just an above-average PG this year

Even Brandon Jennings has a higher PER & WS/48 than Dragic and averages near same amount of ppg in 4 less minutes a game and is coming off a 37 pt game.

Dragic is a starter in this league and he'd put up big numbers on a bad team, but that's about it. I'd love to see him on the Spurs though, he'd be perfect and would probably play much better than TP.

[UK2K]

And thats not a function of his handling the ball far more? Unbelievable. And isn't the fact Goran shoots 6% better a significant difference?

6% is one shot per game. If you take 14 shots per game. So no not really.

Their usage rates aren't that far off either. Lillard's usage rate is 26.3%, Dragic's is 21.7%. Not much of a difference at all. The difference between their scoring is Lillard takes far more 3pters, and far more free throws.

Like I said, had you made this argument last season, I would be right there with ya. He was a fringe all-star, but he had a legitimate argument. This season, not so much.

Maybe when (if) Bledsoe is gone and Dragic gets back to the point, he can bring his A game again. Keep in mind, he's almost 29, so he only has about 5 solid years left.

[masonanddixon]

Dude, fact is that his numbers/role does not warrant him an all-star spot THIS YEAR. Yeah he was great last season, he's just an above-average PG this year

Even Brandon Jennings has a higher PER & WS/48 than Dragic and averages same amount of ppg in 4 less minutes a game.

Dragic is a starter in this league and he'd put up big numbers on a bad team, but that's about it. I'd love to see him on the Spurs though, he'd be perfect and would probably play much better than TP.

Dragic isn't even the primary ballhandler this season. He was THIRD TEAM all NBA last season. "Starter in the league' my ass. He's easily a top 3-5 PG.

[UK2K]

Dude, fact is that his numbers/role does not warrant him an all-star spot THIS YEAR. Yeah he was great last season, he's just an above-average PG this year

Even Brandon Jennings has a higher PER & WS/48 than Dragic and averages near same amount of ppg in 4 less minutes a game and is coming off a 37 pt game.

Dragic is a starter in this league and he'd put up big numbers on a bad team, but that's about it..


I'd love to see him on the Spurs though, he'd be perfect .
:applause:


and would probably play much better than TP.
:facepalm

[Graviton]

And thats not a function of his handling the ball far more? Unbelievable. And isn't the fact Goran shoots 6% better a significant difference?
Raw shooting percentage is irrelevant, you need to take into account free throws and 3 pointers to figure out a player's real scoring efficiency.

Dragic is shooting 6.7-13.2 for the season, scoring 16.9 points.
Lilard is at 7.5-16.4 but at 22.1 points.

So Dragic scores 17 points on 13 shots, Lilard scores 22 points on 16 shots. Even though Dragic shoots 6% better, his points per possession are still lower than Lilard's. Is that a "significant" difference, context>just numbers? You see why FG% is so pointless, getting to the line and staying aggressive is more important than fapping to percentages. There is a reason why Deandre Jordan isn't the best center in the league. :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

:applause:


:facepalm

why :facepalm? If you've followed the Spurs this season, you'd know he's been terrible for the most part. Yes, his averages aren't that bad and he's shooting well from the floor, but he's having the worst defensive season of his career and he's been a negative on offense.

Last 5 games: 12/2/3 on 42% shooting (13.4 FGA) in 26mpg, 3 TOPG

Spurs fans are disgusted with him right now.

[masonanddixon]

Raw shooting percentage is irrelevant, you need to take into account free throws and 3 pointers to figure out a player's real scoring efficiency.

Dragic is shooting 6.7-13.2 for the season, scoring 16.9 points.
Lilard is at 7.5-16.4 but at 22.1 points.

So Dragic scores 17 points on 13 shots, Lilard scores 22 points on 16 shots. Even though Dragic shoots 6% better, his points per possession are still lower than Lilard's. Is that a "significant" difference, context>just numbers? You see why FG% is so pointless, getting to the line and staying aggressive is more important than fapping to percentages. There is a reason why Deandre Jordan isn't the best center in the league. :oldlol:

I guarantee you if the Suns got rid of ball dominant Thomas and Bledsoe, Goran's PPG would go back up to last season's level.

[ImKobe]

I guarantee you if the Suns got rid of ball dominant Thomas and Bledsoe, Goran's PPG would go back up to last season's level.

And the Suns would not be in Playoff contention.

[masonanddixon]

And the Suns would not be in Playoff contention.

He got them to 48 wins last season...imagine if he played with a legit big and no ball dominant guards...

[Graviton]

I guarantee you if the Suns got rid of ball dominant Thomas and Bledsoe, Goran's PPG would go back up to last season's level.
We can't debate hypotheticals, all we can do is argue facts, and the fact is Dragic has not been a top 10 PG this season, whatever he could/would do is irrelevant. All we know is what he HAS done so far, and it hasn't been as impressive as last season.

[masonanddixon]

We can't debate hypotheticals, all we can do is argue facts, and the fact is Dragic has not been a top 10 PG this season, whatever he could/would do is irrelevant. All we know is what he HAS done so far, and it hasn't been as impressive as last season.

Can you list the 10 superior point guards?

[ImKobe]

He got them to 48 wins last season...imagine if he played with a legit big and no ball dominant guards...

Bledsoe didn't play last season? Suns were on pace to win 53 games with Bledsoe playing (28-15 record with him), they only won 20 out of 39 without Bledsoe, that's a 42-win pace.


And let's not forget how they lost 4 out of their last 7 games with Dragic playing and how they won their last game without Dragic playing.

[Graviton]

Can you list the 10 superior point guards?
Curry, Westbrook, Lilard, Paul, Lowry, Wall, Teague, Conley, Irving, Lawson. Rose when he gets more consistent, Rondo maybe. Those guys are question marks though.

[masonanddixon]

Bledsoe didn't play last season? Suns were on pace to win 53 games with Bledsoe playing (28-15 record with him), they only won 20 out of 39 without Bledsoe, that's a 42-win pace.


Thats still pretty impressive when your #2 option is Frye/Green.

Also, Goran was clearly the best player in 2013-2014 on Phoenix

[masonanddixon]

Curry, Westbrook, Lilard, Paul, Lowry, Wall, Teague, Conley, Irving, Lawson. Rose when he gets more consistent, Rondo maybe. Those guys are question marks though.

I can't agree with Teague, Wall, Conley, Irviny, Lawson, nor Rose and Rondo.

[Graviton]

I can't agree with Teague, Wall, Conley, Irviny, Lawson, nor Rose and Rondo.
Teague is always underrated, he has done more to help the Hawks get wins than Dragic, he deserves some respect. Wall is the heart of the Wizards and their record without him is terrible, he has been better than Dragic this season, that's not even arguable. Conley's impact doesn't show up on the stats sheet but he is always consistent and one of the best defenders at his position, also best PG at controlling tempo. Irving has better stats and team record and just outplayed CP3 in dominant fashion. Only one you can argue is Lawson. Rose/Rondo are question marks but lately Rose is looking great.

Again, arguments need to be based on facts, not what ifs and maybes.

[masonanddixon]

Teague is always underrated, he has done more to help the Hawks get wins than Dragic, he deserves some respect. Wall is the heart of the Wizards and their record without him is terrible, he has been better than Dragic this season, that's not even arguable. Conley's impact doesn't show up on the stats sheet but he is always consistent and one of the best defenders at his position, also best PG at controlling tempo. Irving has better stats and team record and just outplayed CP3 in dominant fashion. Only one you can argue is Lawson. Rose/Rondo are question marks but lately Rose is looking great.

Again, arguments need to be based on facts, not what ifs and maybes.

Facts like Dragic outplaying just about all of them head to head?

'Conley's impact doesn't show up on the stats sheet but he is always consistent and one of the best defenders at his position, also best PG at controlling tempo. Irving has better stats and team record '

The former is a subjective claim and the latter is outright false.

[Done_And_Done]

Im enjoying the debate and opting to stay out it. However, I will say that I agree with the OP in that this 2 guard shtick is a wash. A team flooring 2 point gaurds in their starting line up never seems to work out over the long haul. One or the other needs to go.

[Dragic4Life]

Curry, Westbrook, Lilard, Paul, Lowry, Wall, Teague, Conley, Irving, Lawson. Rose when he gets more consistent, Rondo maybe. Those guys are question marks though.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[TheBigVeto]

Dude is at 51% FG for the season now, 3.6 rebs, and 4 assists a game.

How in the hell is he not elite???

He's white