Trusting NBA Players about the NBA

[Breezy]

Have you noticed that every former player who is talking about the game today says pretty much the same thing? 1) The game is going down hill. 2) I would dominate in today's league. 3) No one from today could play back when I played.

Go back 20 years and the then retired Nba players from the 60's and 70's were saying the exact same thing about the players of that day. Maybe these guys are ego maniacs who can resist sticking their chest out when they know there is no way they could be challenged. hence, no risk of being disproven.

Shaq always says the key to success to have a big man who get's 28/15.... Why would he say that?

Bruce Bowen says Kevin Garnet has a wide array of post moves...

Rick Barry thinks he's a better shooter than larry bird/steve nash/Mark price

Wilt Chamberlain thinks he could have scored 60/70 points a game in the late 80's

Bill Russel says that his Celtics would beat any championship team since he retired.

Micheal Jordan.... Kwame Brown.

there are a few lessons I wish people would take away from this.

1. No need to quote nba players when trying to make a basketball point. most of them clearly have no idea what they're talking about.

2. Let's not worry so much about modern players or the direction of the game. We have awesome players and the game is just fine.

[SugarHill]

when to quote NBA players as gospel: when they fall in line with your views

when to disregard NBA players: when they contradict your views

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Most Ex-NBA players are just butthurt guys today make so much more money than they did.

[T_L_P]

It amazes me that guys who have played and been around the game for decades can sometimes be so stupid.

Kenny Smith recently called David Lee a defensive player. Then there are the comments you've referenced above.

[navy]

when to quote NBA players as gospel: when they fall in line with your views

when to disregard NBA players: when they contradict your views
:applause:

[oarabbus]

Have you noticed that every former player who is talking about the game today says pretty much the same thing? 1) The game is going down hill. 2) I would dominate in today's league. 3) No one from today could play back when I played.

Go back 20 years and the then retired Nba players from the 60's and 70's were saying the exact same thing about the players of that day. Maybe these guys are ego maniacs who can resist sticking their chest out when they know there is no way they could be challenged. hence, no risk of being disproven.

Shaq always says the key to success to have a big man who get's 28/15.... Why would he say that?

Bruce Bowen says Kevin Garnet has a wide array of post moves...

Rick Barry thinks he's a better shooter than larry bird/steve nash/Mark price

Wilt Chamberlain thinks he could have scored 60/70 points a game in the late 80's

Bill Russel says that his Celtics would beat any championship team since he retired.

Micheal Jordan.... Kwame Brown.

there are a few lessons I wish people would take away from this.

1. No need to quote nba players when trying to make a basketball point. most of them clearly have no idea what they're talking about.

2. Let's not worry so much about modern players or the direction of the game. We have awesome players and the game is just fine.

:applause:


They are ALWAYS saying the game is weaker because they want to prop themselves up and make themselves look better.

Of course, it isn't true.

[Milbuck]

This is true often but it isn't always the case. I was just watching that "You Remind Me" episode of Open Court where they compare eras.

Kenny was pretty much the guy you're talking about..said men played in the 80s, stars and even some superstars (?) today would be average players in the 80s, that superstars of that era were dominant in so many facets of the game that superstars of today just can't replicate.

Then you have guys like Brent Barry who disagreed completely..said that you can't just compare styles and skills over the years and say ___ wouldn't do anything in ___ era, but that you gotta focus on inherent ability, feel for the game, knowledge, etc..and that great players of one era would adapt and mold their games to their times.

Then you have Grant Hill who said for as dominant Wilt Chamberlain was, Shaq was just more dominant, and he was curious to see how Wilt's finger rolls, his moves against his competition would fare against a monster like Shaq.

And Kerr talked about how if you watch footage of the 80s, it looks like they're not playing defense..that defenses today are more complex and versatile.

It's really who you choose to listen to. I wouldn't say every player blindly defends his era and the eras prior, there are guys out there who understand how the game is evolving and are willing to appreciate that some aspects have improved over the years.

[stephanieg]

The further back in time you go the better the players. That's why James Naismith is the GOAT.

[SugarHill]

The further back in time you go the better the players. That's why James Naismith is the GOAT.
:roll:

[T_L_P]

And Kerr talked about how if you watch footage of the 80s, it looks like they're not playing defense..that defenses today are more complex and versatile.


Kerr speaks so much truth.

If past stars/players had a chance to grow up watching today's game, they'd be just as great or nearly as great as they were before.

If you dropped 60s Wilt in today's game, he wouldn't have a clue. The game has evolved so much in the past 10 years...30 years ago the game was still arguably bare roots.

[Breezy]

To be thorough in my point I should say that it doesn't mean every single nba player should be disregarded but 9 times out of 10 if someone is quoting a player to make a point about their argument, it's some absurd hyperbole that doesn't bare out in the stats or eye test.

Anyone on earth, player or fan can tell you that Isaiah Thomas was a world class point guard. But It takes Zeke himself to let you know he could average 40 in today's game.

[navy]

Blanket statements should not be trusted. Especially when it comes to discussing better players/eras since people let their biases run wild. However insight into things is very valuable from people with experience.

[Dr.J4ever]

The OP's point is a lesson in psychology.

The advancement or the constant changes in the game threatens people/fans/players from the old school. In general, older people are resistant to change, especially if it could affect how history will view their legacy. It leaves them insecure, and worrying at night on their place in the game.

Imagine, a great player who worked in his craft for 15-17 odd years. He learned the game from his father, who taught him to emulate an all time great. He finally reaches the NBA and takes that game to a new level unseen 20 years before. He retires with accolades, and maybe even a title or two. Then here come a 21 year old pimple faced youngster with a larger contract than he ever had and with constant 24/7 news and hype in your face, how would he feel if ESPN is telling you he's the best athlete at his position ever?

For fans, nostalgia is a big thing. You always think the era when you were growing up, your time, your teens, was the best ever. You partied more, and players were surely the best ever. No comparison to today. You can't think objectively.

I know because I used to be like that. I grew up during the 80s during what was the golden age of basketball. Julius was and is still my hero, and the great 76ers of that era were my team. The Lakers and Celtics were great nemesis.

As the 80s turned to the 90s though, Jordan and the Bulls were threatening everything that I ever believed or stood for. This Jordan dude kept winning titles at a rate no one in the 80s thought possible. He was turning my world view upside down.

So what did I do? I looked for reasons why it was happening. I lapped up articles and writers who believed the 90s were a weak era. The thing about sports opinions are if you look for them, you will find it.

After I gradually got older though, you let go of the things of youth and learn to accept. You tend to be more open and more tolerant of other opinions. I'm not here telling you the 90s were a better era than the 80s, but I am saying I now believe each era has it's attributes and weaknesses, and each decade stands on it's own as great eras. At the end of the day, nobody knows and there are no time machines.

Because of this, I have learned to appreciate today's game even more. I tend to see the past in the right perspective, I like to think. I hope other posters here can reduce their stanning and look for the good in today's game because this is the only game in town. All those games in the past are done for, and are now just water under the bridge.

The game today is better and worse. Just like the game before was both better and worse than today's game.

I hope everybody can be happy with that. :applause:

[iamgine]

:applause:


They are ALWAYS saying the game is weaker because they want to prop themselves up and make themselves look better.

Of course, it isn't true.
I don't think so. I think they really think that.

[hahaitme]

It amazes me that guys who have played and been around the game for decades can sometimes be so stupid.

Kenny Smith recently called David Lee a defensive player. Then there are the comments you've referenced above.

Let's be honest here though, most NBA players are/were in the NBA because they are naturally talented, and were blessed with insane athleticism.

Sure there are plenty of guys that are also gifted with a great mind and can eventually transition over into some sort of coaching role, but for the most part these guys are just damn good at basketball - which at the end of the day doesn't make you a good analyst.

[Done_And_Done]

The OP's point is a lesson in psychology.

The advancement or the constant changes in the game threatens people/fans/players from the old school. In general, older people are resistant to change, especially if it could affect how history will view their legacy. It leaves them insecure, and worrying at night on their place in the game.

Imagine, a great player who worked in his craft for 15-17 odd years. He learned the game from his father, who taught him to emulate an all time great. He finally reaches the NBA and takes that game to a new level unseen 20 years before. He retires with accolades, and maybe even a title or two. Then here come a 21 year old pimple faced youngster with a larger contract than he ever had and with constant 24/7 news and hype in your face, how would he feel if ESPN is telling you he's the best athlete at his position ever?

For fans, nostalgia is a big thing. You always think the era when you were growing up, your time, your teens, was the best ever. You partied more, and players were surely the best ever. No comparison to today. You can't think objectively.

I know because I used to be like that. I grew up during the 80s during what was the golden age of basketball. Julius was and is still my hero, and the great 76ers of that era were my team. The Lakers and Celtics were great nemesis.

As the 80s turned to the 90s though, Jordan and the Bulls were threatening everything that I ever believed or stood for. This Jordan dude kept winning titles at a rate no one in the 80s thought possible. He was turning my world view upside down.

So what did I do? I looked for reasons why it was happening. I lapped up articles and writers who believed the 90s were a weak era. The thing about sports opinions are if you look for them, you will find it.

After I gradually got older though, you let go of the things of youth and learn to accept. You tend to be more open and more tolerant of other opinions. I'm not here telling you the 90s were a better era than the 80s, but I am saying I now believe each era has it's attributes and weaknesses, and each decade stands on it's own as great eras. At the end of the day, nobody knows and there are no time machines.

Because of this, I have learned to appreciate today's game even more. I tend to see the past in the right perspective, I like to think. I hope other posters here can reduce their stanning and look for the good in today's game because this is the only game in town. All those games in the past are done for, and are now just water under the bridge.

The game today is better and worse. Just like the game before was both better and worse than today's game.

I hope everybody can be happy with that. :applause:


That was beautiful man :applause:

Excellent post...

[ProfessorMurder]

Shaq always says the key to success to have a big man who get's 28/15.... Why would he say that?

Bruce Bowen says Kevin Garnet has a wide array of post moves...

Rick Barry thinks he's a better shooter than larry bird/steve nash/Mark price.

Big men are the most important part of basketball.

KG does have a ton of post moves, and great footwork. Only a person who's never watched him would think otherwise. Sorry he doesn't bang much anymore 20 years in.

Rick Barry is one of the best shooters of all time.

Wilt would've averaged over 30.

Russell's Celtics could compete with many championship teams.

Chill the f*ck out.

[dunksby]

If you had played BBall competitively you'd get why they say stuff like that, it's so hard to defer to newer players and admit on national TV that your era was weaker and inferior in some aspect especially if you used to be some kind of star back then. These guys are right to an extent though, all great basketball players would still be great and might even be better (depending on their position and style) given they were born and raised with today's standards.
Another major reason could be that when they, like other fans, start watching the game from the stands or their homes with a god POV and see what players could do and don't become complacent and all-knowing forgetting how hard it is to make decisions on the court.

[SugarHill]

The OP's point is a lesson in psychology.

The advancement or the constant changes in the game threatens people/fans/players from the old school. In general, older people are resistant to change, especially if it could affect how history will view their legacy. It leaves them insecure, and worrying at night on their place in the game.

Imagine, a great player who worked in his craft for 15-17 odd years. He learned the game from his father, who taught him to emulate an all time great. He finally reaches the NBA and takes that game to a new level unseen 20 years before. He retires with accolades, and maybe even a title or two. Then here come a 21 year old pimple faced youngster with a larger contract than he ever had and with constant 24/7 news and hype in your face, how would he feel if ESPN is telling you he's the best athlete at his position ever?

For fans, nostalgia is a big thing. You always think the era when you were growing up, your time, your teens, was the best ever. You partied more, and players were surely the best ever. No comparison to today. You can't think objectively.

I know because I used to be like that. I grew up during the 80s during what was the golden age of basketball. Julius was and is still my hero, and the great 76ers of that era were my team. The Lakers and Celtics were great nemesis.

As the 80s turned to the 90s though, Jordan and the Bulls were threatening everything that I ever believed or stood for. This Jordan dude kept winning titles at a rate no one in the 80s thought possible. He was turning my world view upside down.

So what did I do? I looked for reasons why it was happening. I lapped up articles and writers who believed the 90s were a weak era. The thing about sports opinions are if you look for them, you will find it.

After I gradually got older though, you let go of the things of youth and learn to accept. You tend to be more open and more tolerant of other opinions. I'm not here telling you the 90s were a better era than the 80s, but I am saying I now believe each era has it's attributes and weaknesses, and each decade stands on it's own as great eras. At the end of the day, nobody knows and there are no time machines.

Because of this, I have learned to appreciate today's game even more. I tend to see the past in the right perspective, I like to think. I hope other posters here can reduce their stanning and look for the good in today's game because this is the only game in town. All those games in the past are done for, and are now just water under the bridge.

The game today is better and worse. Just like the game before was both better and worse than today's game.

I hope everybody can be happy with that. :applause::applause:

[Marchesk]

What Dr.J4ever said. :applause:

This goes both ways, though. People growing up watching today's game tend to be dismissive of older eras. Thus the occasionally need to stan the past. Need to balance out the Lebron, Kobe, Durant hype. Put it into some historical context. Yes, they are all-time great talents. But no, they're not on some other level of playing. There were great athletes before them doing similar things. Lebron is insanely athletic and has great all-around skills for his size, but he's not the first like that. Durant is an insanely good shooter and offensive threat for his size, but again he's not the first. Shaq was a superman, but he wasn't the first either.

[Marchesk]

Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Elgin (pre knee injury), Oscar, Gus Johnson, Dr J, Dominique, MJ (and others) - all those dudes were as athletic in their prime as anyone today.

Anyone honestly think Julius Erving couldn't perform any of the dunks or (moves around the rim) done today if he was in his prime?

[CJ Mustard]

Have you noticed that every former player who is talking about the game today says pretty much the same thing? 1) The game is going down hill. 2) I would dominate in today's league. 3) No one from today could play back when I played.

Go back 20 years and the then retired Nba players from the 60's and 70's were saying the exact same thing about the players of that day. Maybe these guys are ego maniacs who can resist sticking their chest out when they know there is no way they could be challenged. hence, no risk of being disproven.

Shaq always says the key to success to have a big man who get's 28/15.... Why would he say that?

Bruce Bowen says Kevin Garnet has a wide array of post moves...

Rick Barry thinks he's a better shooter than larry bird/steve nash/Mark price

Wilt Chamberlain thinks he could have scored 60/70 points a game in the late 80's

Bill Russel says that his Celtics would beat any championship team since he retired.

Micheal Jordan.... Kwame Brown.

there are a few lessons I wish people would take away from this.

1. No need to quote nba players when trying to make a basketball point. most of them clearly have no idea what they're talking about.

2. Let's not worry so much about modern players or the direction of the game. We have awesome players and the game is just fine.
He does though. He just didn't go down there enough.

[yobore]

all great basketball players would still be great and might even be better (depending on their position and style) given they were born and raised with today's standards.

Might be but probably wouldn't. I say that because there are many times more people playing basketball recreationally and seriously today.

Say you have 10000 people and train them a certain way to run a marathon.
Say you have 50000 other people and train them the same way.

The chances are that the fastest is in the 5000. The 10th in the first group would likely be 50th among the second group, etc.

The boom of basketball's popularity of the game in the 80's and early 90's when today's players would have started liking basketball, the internationalization of the game, and the fact that is so much more lucrative means today's NBA has much bigger pool to draw from. Unless humans in general have gotten worse it's likely today's best are the best, though still possible for a couple exceptions.

[Marchesk]

The boom of basketball's popularity of the game in the 80's and early 90's when today's players would have started liking basketball, the internationalization of the game, and the fact that is so much more lucrative means today's NBA has much bigger pool to draw from. Unless humans in general have gotten worse it's likely today's best are the best, though still possible for a couple exceptions.

You have a point, but the question that needs answering is where are the Wilts, Kareems and Shaqs? Why are dominant bigs more rare than they were in the past?

Another question. Is there any reason to believe that Jordan is any less skilled or athletic than any player today? Because most people would say no. Is there anyone more skilled than Bird or Magic today? Again, most would say no.

[ImKobe]

Let's be honest here though, most NBA players are/were in the NBA because they are naturally talented, and were blessed with insane athleticism.

Sure there are plenty of guys that are also gifted with a great mind and can eventually transition over into some sort of coaching role, but for the most part these guys are just damn good at basketball - which at the end of the day doesn't make you a good analyst.

Some guys are just horrible at evaluating talent - see Michael Jordan.

[GimmeThat]

there's the players who are in the top 50 list
then there's the players who listed out the orders of the top 50 list
then there's the people who gets their list of the top 50 being massively printed and publicized.

[emaugust]

The OP's point is a lesson in psychology.

...

I hope everybody can be happy with that. :applause:

That is some real good perspective man.

:cheers: :pimp: :pimp:

[ralph_i_el]

The OP's point is a lesson in psychology.

The advancement or the constant changes in the game threatens people/fans/players from the old school. In general, older people are resistant to change, especially if it could affect how history will view their legacy. It leaves them insecure, and worrying at night on their place in the game.

Imagine, a great player who worked in his craft for 15-17 odd years. He learned the game from his father, who taught him to emulate an all time great. He finally reaches the NBA and takes that game to a new level unseen 20 years before. He retires with accolades, and maybe even a title or two. Then here come a 21 year old pimple faced youngster with a larger contract than he ever had and with constant 24/7 news and hype in your face, how would he feel if ESPN is telling you he's the best athlete at his position ever?

For fans, nostalgia is a big thing. You always think the era when you were growing up, your time, your teens, was the best ever. You partied more, and players were surely the best ever. No comparison to today. You can't think objectively.

I know because I used to be like that. I grew up during the 80s during what was the golden age of basketball. Julius was and is still my hero, and the great 76ers of that era were my team. The Lakers and Celtics were great nemesis.

As the 80s turned to the 90s though, Jordan and the Bulls were threatening everything that I ever believed or stood for. This Jordan dude kept winning titles at a rate no one in the 80s thought possible. He was turning my world view upside down.

So what did I do? I looked for reasons why it was happening. I lapped up articles and writers who believed the 90s were a weak era. The thing about sports opinions are if you look for them, you will find it.

After I gradually got older though, you let go of the things of youth and learn to accept. You tend to be more open and more tolerant of other opinions. I'm not here telling you the 90s were a better era than the 80s, but I am saying I now believe each era has it's attributes and weaknesses, and each decade stands on it's own as great eras. At the end of the day, nobody knows and there are no time machines.

Because of this, I have learned to appreciate today's game even more. I tend to see the past in the right perspective, I like to think. I hope other posters here can reduce their stanning and look for the good in today's game because this is the only game in town. All those games in the past are done for, and are now just water under the bridge.

The game today is better and worse. Just like the game before was both better and worse than today's game.

I hope everybody can be happy with that. :applause:


:applause: Preach