Ray Allen vs. Reggie Miller

[3ball]

i'm curious... what's the consensus here?

[Uncle Drew]

I'd go with Allen. Better off-ball passer.

[JohnFreeman]

Allen

[Bigsmoke]

Ray Allen= championships, more 3 pointers made, better scorer, better defender, better passer, more success

Reggie Miller= maybe more clutch but Ray Allen nailed arguable the biggest clutch shot in NBA history.

Answer= ray Allen, easy

[Kvnzhangyay]

Allen

[SugarHill]

Ray cannibalized Miller's career

[TheMarkMadsen]

Allen not even close

[Prometheus]

This thread is hurting OP's agenda.

[bluechox2]

both need to retire

[Micku]

Ray Ray. Peak Jesus had more dimensions in his prime and is a more volume player. Better scorer, but in Boston he became better defender as well.

Both were clutch, but as someone said Ray Ray probably made the arguably the most clutch shot in NBA history.

[Wade's Rings]

Got to go with Ray

[JohnFreeman]

Reggie had prime Jalen

[Uncle Drew]

Otoh, Ray Allen needed Garnett/Pierce, and then Lebron/Wade/Bosh to make the Finals - Unlike Miller, Allen never showed that a team built around him as the #1 option, could be good enough to make the Finals.
:wtf:

Ray Allen was one game away from taking the Bucks to the finals in '01. And he would have, if the NBA didn't decide that an AI vs. Shaq/Kobe series was a must.

[Haymaker]

Reggie. Allen beats him on longevity but in their primes Reggie was better.

[3ball]

that's really interesting fellas... :applause: ... but the stats tell a much different story:

Regular Season

Miller: 18.2 PPG, 47.1% FG, 61.4 TS
Allen: 18.6 PPG, 45.2% FG, 58.0 TS


Playoffs

Miller: 20.6 PPG, 44.9% FG, 60.1% TS
Allen: 16.0 PPG, 44.3% FG, 58.0% TS


Of course, Reggie Miller made the Finals as the leader and #1 option on his team, and was FAR more clutch, with FAR more big moments.

Otoh, Ray Allen needed Garnett/Pierce, and then Lebron/Wade/Bosh to make the Finals - Unlike Miller, Allen never showed that a team built around him as the #1 option, could be good enough to make the Finals.

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

that's really interesting fellas... :applause: ... but the stats tell a much different story:

Regular Season

Miller: 18.2 PPG, 47.1% FG, 61.4 TS
Allen: 18.6 PPG, 45.2% FG, 58.0 TS


Playoffs

Miller: 20.6 PPG, 44.9% FG, 60.1% TS
Allen: 16.0 PPG, 44.3% FG, 58.0% TS


Of course, Reggie Miller made the Finals as the leader and #1 option on his team, and was FAR more clutch, with FAR more big moments (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWNuB6zHAJ0&t=0m35s).

Otoh, Ray Allen needed Garnett/Pierce, and then Lebron/Wade/Bosh to make the Finals - Unlike Miller, Allen never showed that a team built around him as the #1 option, could be good enough to make the Finals.

To be fair, the 2000-2001 Bucks SHOULD HAVE made the finals if they hadn't gotten royally screwed by the officials. Allen was awesome that year.

[tpols]

Ray Allen better defender, passer, ball handler, slasher, just as good a shooter and just as clutch.. Hell his game six championship saving shot is more clutch than anything reggie ever done.

Also ray had better peak and goat level conditioning/longevity.

It's like comparing Alonzo mourning to mutumbo.. Both hallmarks are defense, but zo had more well rounded game

[Uncle Drew]

Lol, he deleted his post. Stick to off-ball passing you phony.

[Smoke117]

Ray Allen.

[3ball]

Ray Allen better defender, passer, ball handler, slasher, just as good a shooter and just as clutch.. Hell his game six championship saving shot is more clutch than anything reggie ever done.

Also ray had better peak and goat level conditioning/longevity.

It's like comparing Alonzo mourning to mutumbo.. Both hallmarks are defense, but zo had more well rounded game


the only thing ray is better at from an individual skill standpoint is handles... everything else you said is pure speculation... and better handles doesn't make up for being a worse scorer overall and player.

and are you really giving credit to ray allen for hitting a clutch shot, when Reggie had FAR MORE.... WAAAAAAY more clutch shots... but Allen gets credit for the ONE that he hit?

also, how can ray allen be a better scorer when their regular season numbers are the same, but Reggie was a far higher playoff average (25% higher)?

[3ball]

Regular Season

Miller: 18.2 PPG, 47.1% FG, 61.4 TS
Allen: 18.6 PPG, 45.2% FG, 58.0 TS


Playoffs

Miller: 20.6 PPG, 44.9% FG, 60.1% TS
Allen: 16.0 PPG, 44.3% FG, 58.0% TS


HOW IS RAY ALLEN A BETTER SCORER WHEN HE SCORES 25% LESS IN THE PLAYOFFS?

[Kvnzhangyay]

Who wants to bet that 3Ball is propping up Miller so he can make his grandiose statement of how MJ dominated such a stronger competition

[3ball]

Who wants to bet that 3Ball is propping up Miller so he can make his grandiose statement of how MJ dominated such a stronger competition
it would be great if someone can explain to me how ray allen is considered a better scorer when his regular season average is the same as Miller's, but Miller averaged almost 30% more scoring in the playoffs (21 ppg to Allen's 16 ppg).

Unlike Miller, Allen never showed that a team built around him as the #1 option, could be good enough to make the Finals.... Allen needed needed Garnett/Pierce, and then Lebron/Wade/Bosh to make the Finals..
.

[lilteapot]

I'd go with Allen. Better off-ball passer.
:roll:

[tpols]

the only thing ray is better at from an individual skill standpoint is handles... everything else you said is pure speculation... and better handles doesn't make up for being a worse scorer overall and player.

and are you really giving credit to ray allen for hitting a clutch shot, when Reggie had FAR MORE.... WAAAAAAY more clutch shots... but Allen gets credit for the ONE that he hit?

also, how can ray allen be a better scorer when their regular season numbers are the same, but Reggie was a far higher playoff average (25% higher)?

ray Allen was a great man defender.. His work on Kobe in the 2010 finals was fabulous.. Never bites, great conditioning, mirrors movement with excellent discipline.. Has been given tough assignments.. While Reggie miller was a human traffic cone.. Whose teams had to compensate for him with a ton of physicality and defense.

And rays superior ball handling sets up his superior passing and slashing.. It's tough to be a good finisher when you can't dribble.

It's just not fair to compare players who are similar in their greatest strength but one is far far more well rounded.

[Milbuck]

it would be great if someone can explain to me how ray allen is considered a better scorer when his regular season average is the same as Miller's, but Miller averaged almost 30% more scoring in the playoffs (21 ppg to Allen's 16 ppg).

Also, Ray Allen needed Garnett/Pierce, and then Lebron/Wade/Bosh to make the Finals..

Unlike Miller, Allen never showed that a team built around him as the #1 option, could be good enough to make the Finals.
.
Except that he did in 2001, before he was robbed.

[Micku]

how could allen be the better scorer when they both averaged teh same in the regular season, but Reggie was FAR better in the playoffs (25% more scoring)?

Because he scored higher in his peak, and he had more dimensions. He could slash, shoot the 3, and was a better ball handler. He was more versatile.

Obviously his stats decrease when he went to Boston. He went from averaging 26 ppg to 17.4 ppg. It worked out in his favor since he won a ring and everything. Ray Ray also had 8 seasons where he scored over 20 ppg. Two of those seasons where he average over 25. Miller had 6 seasons where he scored over 20 ppg. None of them which he scored over 25. I suppose you could round up tho.

At Ray's peak, he scored at a greater volume more consistently.

[3ball]

ray Allen was a great man defender.. His work on Kobe in the 2010 finals was fabulous..


wtf are you talking about - Reggie Miller held Kobe to 19 PPG in the 2000 Finals on 38% shooting - this EXCLUDES the game he only played 1 minute!!!!!!

you think you can just make stuff up about Miller being a human traffic cone just because it was 15 years ago and you never watched him?... that's disgraceful my friend.

Miller averaged almost 30% more scoring in the playoffs with FAR more big moments.... Miller was the easily the better scorer and the stats prove it pretty definitively.

and he proved that a team could be built around him as the #1 option and still make the Finals.... Allen could only make the Finals as a 3rd option and needed Lebron, Garnett and company...

Sigh... I'm done here.

[Bigsmoke]

it would be great if someone can explain to me how ray allen is considered a better scorer when his regular season average is the same as Miller's, but Miller averaged almost 30% more scoring in the playoffs (21 ppg to Allen's 16 ppg).

Unlike Miller, Allen never showed that a team built around him as the #1 option, could be good enough to make the Finals.... Allen needed needed Garnett/Pierce, and then Lebron/Wade/Bosh to make the Finals..
.

Ray almost went to the Finals in 2001. How many do we gotta say that? Ray literally never played with a note worthy big until he was traded to Boston. Ray never been on a team that was built like the 2000 Pacers which was filled with quality defenders, rebounders, a capable 20ppg scoring 2nd option, great passing PG, and coach with a basketball mind like Bird's all at once

[Bigsmoke]

wtf are you talking about - Reggie Miller held Kobe to 19 PPG in the 2000 Finals on 38% shooting - this EXCLUDES the game he only played 1 minute!!!!!!

you think you can just make stuff up about Miller being a human traffic cone just because it was 15 years ago and you never watched him?... that's disgraceful my friend.

Miller averaged almost 30% more scoring in the playoffs with FAR more big moments.... Miller was the easily the better scorer and the stats prove it pretty definitively.

and he proved that a team could be built around him as the #1 option and still make the Finals.... Allen could only make the Finals as a 3rd option and needed Lebron, Garnett and company...

Sigh... I'm done here.

Kobe wasn't even that good to begin with in 2000:lol

He took that next step that following year

[Haymaker]

wtf are you talking about - Reggie Miller held Kobe to 19 PPG in the 2000 Finals on 38% shooting - this EXCLUDES the game he only played 1 minute!!!!!!

you think you can just make stuff up about Miller being a human traffic cone just because it was 15 years ago and you never watched him?... that's disgraceful my friend.

Miller averaged almost 30% more scoring in the playoffs with FAR more big moments.... Miller was the easily the better scorer and the stats prove it pretty definitively.

and he proved that a team could be built around him as the #1 option and still make the Finals.... Allen could only make the Finals as a 3rd option and needed Lebron, Garnett and company...

Sigh... I'm done here.

I have to agree with this. :applause:

[tpols]

wtf are you talking about - Reggie Miller held Kobe to 19 PPG in the 2000 Finals on 38% shooting - this EXCLUDES the game he only played 1 minute!!!!!!

you think you can just make stuff up about Miller being a human traffic cone just because it was 15 years ago and you never watched him?... that's disgraceful my friend.

Miller averaged almost 30% more scoring in the playoffs with FAR more big moments.... Miller was the easily the better scorer and the stats prove it pretty definitively.

and he proved that a team could be built around him as the #1 option and still make the Finals.... Allen could only make the Finals as a 3rd option and needed Lebron, Garnett and company...

Sigh... I'm done here.

Comparing young pre-prime Kobe on an injured ankle.. Done purposefully by Jalen rose to prime veteran 2010 Kobe coming off one of the best series of his careers...

3ball never fails to exclude context. :oldlol:

[Micku]

the only thing ray is better at from an individual skill standpoint is handles... everything else you said is pure speculation... and better handles doesn't make up for being a worse scorer overall and player.

You can prove some of them. You can basically check the stats of what he did in his prime. He assist'd more (slightly), but averaged more ast in his prime. This doesn't prove that he is the better passer necessary to be fair, but it does indicate he was a better playmaker. Like someone mention, his defense in 2010 against Kobe was really impressive. His entire run in Boston he became a better defender.


and are you really giving credit to ray allen for hitting a clutch shot, when Reggie had FAR MORE.... WAAAAAAY more clutch shots... but Allen gets credit for the ONE that he hit?

Oh c'mon. I know you had to watch some of his games. Ray Ray hit a lot of clutch shots. It just that one shot that he hit while with the Heat might be the most clutch one in the NBA archives.


wtf are you talking about - Reggie Miller held Kobe to 19 PPG in the 2000 Finals on 38% shooting - this EXCLUDES the game he only played 1 minute!!!!!!


Kobe wasn't even in his prime that year. 2010 Kobe was way better offensively. And Kobe got injured in game 2.

[Bigsmoke]

3ball is lost:lol

[pauk]

Reggie is a better clutch performer and more of a mental warfare/trashtalking/alpha/competitor guy (gets under anybodies skin & makes you choke), just a more entertaining character ingame. Ray Allen has a better looking shooting stroke and was more athletic, thats it.... oh, Ray might had better handles aswell...

[Milbuck]

Klay Thompson.

[Beastmode88]

Reggie is a better clutch performer and more of a mental warfare/trashtalking/alpha/competitor guy (gets under anybodies skin & makes you choke), just a more entertaining character ingame. Ray Allen has a better looking shooting stroke and was more athletic, thats it....

Lol that game 6 shor by ray allen begs to differ. Not only was it a top 5 finals shot of all time but it was the shot that saves lebron's legacy.

[AintNoSunshine]

:roll: Put Reggie in Rays place then you will see. Miller no where close to Ray as an offensive player which does not only mean shooting. If Miller had to run a offense his team would be lottery bound.

Stop watching NBA and go on youtube for some videos of the 90s if you think everything back then were so much better

[pauk]

Lol that game 6 shor by ray allen begs to differ. Not only was it a top 5 finals shot of all time but it was the shot that saves lebron's legacy.

1. Reggie has hit double & almost triple the clutch shots/gamewinners/gametying shots Ray has... especially in playoffs.... there is data on this i can provide if you want, but it goes as far back as only 1990.... Reggie has maybe hit more clutch shots than anybody in NBA history....

2. Unlike Ray, Reggie was ALWAYS the go-to-guy under pressure until he retired, for 18 years.... if Reggie played with Lebron, even at age 39, HE WOULD DEMAND the ball at the end of the game all the time....

3. That shot Ray hit only tied the game with 5 seconds left and was his 2nd FG...... Lebron then shut down Tony Parker from a gamewinning shot and then took over in OT where he hit the Final shot that won the game 101-100.... the only legacy that was "saved" here is Ray Allen's ringchasing career, that guy is the ultimate ringchaser, Reggie always refused to get a ring that way, especially when Ray Allen/Celtics themselves begged him to join them after he retired....

[Bigsmoke]

Reggie is a better clutch performer and more of a mental warfare/trashtalking/alpha/competitor guy (gets under anybodies skin & makes you choke), just a more entertaining character ingame. Ray Allen has a better looking shooting stroke and was more athletic, thats it.... oh, Ray might had better handles aswell...

Ray is an overall better offensive AND defensive player than Miller.

[Bigsmoke]

1. Reggie has hit double & almost triple the clutch shots/gamewinners/gametying shots Ray has... especially in playoffs.... there is data on this i can provide if you want, but it goes as far back as only 1990.... Reggie has maybe hit more clutch shots than anybody in NBA history....

2. Unlike Ray, Reggie was ALWAYS the go-to-guy under pressure until he retired, for 18 years.... if Reggie played with Lebron, even at age 39, HE WOULD DEMAND the ball at the end of the game all the time....

3. That shot Ray hit only tied the game with 5 seconds left and was his 2nd FG...... Lebron then shut down Tony Parker from a gamewinning shot and then took over in OT where he hit the Final shot that won the game 101-100.... the only legacy that was "saved" here is Ray Allen's ringchasing career, that guy is the ultimate ringchaser, Reggie always refused to get a ring that way, especially when Ray Allen/Celtics themselves begged him to join them after he retired....

You're cherry picking

Nobody is giving that ball to Reggie Miller EVERYTIME in the clutch if he is playing alongside Paul Pierce

[pauk]

Ray is an overall better offensive AND defensive player than Miller.

Grant Hill was overall a better offensive AND defensive player than Kevin Durant....

But who was more impactful?

[Beastmode88]

1. Reggie has hit double & almost triple the clutch shots/gamewinners/gametying shots Ray has... especially in playoffs.... there is data on this i can provide if you want, but it goes as far back as only 1990.... Reggie has maybe hit more clutch shots than anybody in NBA history....

2. Unlike Ray, Reggie was ALWAYS the go-to-guy under pressure until he retired, for 18 years.... if Reggie played with Lebron, even at age 39, HE WOULD DEMAND the ball at the end of the game all the time....

3. That shot Ray hit only tied the game with 5 seconds left and was his 2nd FG...... Lebron then shut down Tony Parker from a gamewinning shot and then took over in OT where he hit the Final shot that won the game 101-100.... the only legacy that was "saved" here is Ray Allen's ringchasing career, that guy is the ultimate ringchaser, Reggie always refused to get a ring that way, especially when Ray Allen/Celtics themselves begged him to join them after he retired....

Celtics vs bulls game 6 2009. And ray allen wasnt needed if lebron didnt air ball 2 3 point shots in the 4th.

[pauk]

You're cherry picking

Nobody is giving that ball to Reggie Miller EVERYTIME in the clutch if he is playing alongside Paul Pierce

With 1-3 seconds left and you are down 2-3 points or tied.... out of all the players in NBA history i think most NBA fans (the rational ones at least) would pick Reggie Miller to take the shot.... Reggie has probably hit more such shots than anybody in NBA history....

So you can go ahead and lose the game with a Paul Pierce jumpshot instead.... its your choice...

[Reggie43]

Argument has already been beaten to death with a stick. They are very close to each other and is probably a matter of preference if you pick one over the other. Anyone saying that one is much better than the other probably never saw them play in their primes and is not worth discussing with further.

[Bigsmoke]

Grant Hill was overall a better offensive AND defensive player than Kevin Durant....

But who was more impactful?

Grant Hill was never the offensive player that Durant is right now

Are u drunk?

[Bigsmoke]

With 1-3 seconds left and you are down 2-3 points or tied.... out of all the players in NBA history i think most NBA fans (the rational ones at least) would pick Reggie Miller to take the shot.... Reggie has probably hit more such shots than anybody in NBA history....

So you can go ahead and lose the game with a Paul Pierce jumpshot instead.... its your choice...

:biggums:

Pierce is clutch too... And is way better than Reggie Miller.

[3ball]

:biggums:

Pierce is clutch too... And is way better than Reggie Miller.
Maybe Pierce is... maybe...

but Ray Allen definitely isn't - that's impossible when Reggie scores almost 30% more than him in the playoffs and showed he could be the focal point and #1 option on a team that went to the Finals.... I don't care HOW much you guys like Ray's handles more.

Reggie didn't need Lebron/Bosh/Wade/Pierce/Garnett to get to the Finals... you feel me?.... whew... that was a doozy just saying all the names.

[dubnation]

wtf are you talking about - Reggie Miller held Kobe to 19 PPG in the 2000 Finals on 38% shooting - this EXCLUDES the game he only played 1 minute!!!!!!

you think you can just make stuff up about Miller being a human traffic cone just because it was 15 years ago and you never watched him?... that's disgraceful my friend.

Miller averaged almost 30% more scoring in the playoffs with FAR more big moments.... Miller was the easily the better scorer and the stats prove it pretty definitively.

and he proved that a team could be built around him as the #1 option and still make the Finals.... Allen could only make the Finals as a 3rd option and needed Lebron, Garnett and company...

Sigh... I'm done here.

You're done here? Please say it's true... you're the most unlikeable poster I've seen on any board, ever. :banghead:

[3ball]

You're done here? Please say it's true...


Apparently not, because i just posted this right before your post:

"Maybe Pierce is better than Reggie... maybe...

but Ray Allen definitely isn't - that's impossible when Reggie scores almost 30% more than him in the playoffs and showed he could be the focal point and #1 option on a team that went to the Finals.... I don't care HOW much you guys like Ray's handles more.

Reggie didn't need Lebron/Bosh/Wade/Pierce/Garnett to get to the Finals... you feel me?.... whew... that was a doozy just saying all the names."

[3ball]

Reggie could be the leader and alpha #1 option of a team that went to the Finals.. He played a 35-year old Jordan to a stand-still and had Jordan legit spent (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnKINLUaFj4&t=9m08s).

Otoh, Ray Allen was 2 inches shorter with a much smaller build - he looked like a shrimp next to Jordan, literally (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCOJQOMEJ4Y)... Reggie would never look so tiny next to MJ, infact, he's an inch taller than MJ and super-long compared to rayray.

[Bigsmoke]

Reggie could be the leader and alpha #1 option of a team that went to the Finals.. He played a 35-year old Jordan to a stand-still and had Jordan legit spent (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnKINLUaFj4&t=9m08s).

Otoh, Ray Allen was 2 inches shorter with a much smaller build - he looked like a shrimp next to Jordan, literally (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCOJQOMEJ4Y)... Reggie would never look so tiny next to MJ, infact, he's an inch taller than MJ and super-long compared to rayray.


Ray Allen could have won the Finals MVP in 2008.


You're basically saying Reggie was better because he played in this so called "golden era". :rolleyes:

The Pacers had talent. Reggie didn't single handedly carry them.

[The Red Viper]

Ray Allen.

Loved Reggie but Ray at his peak was a better scorer and passer than Reggie. And at Boston, he became a decent defender as well which is something that couldn't be said about Reggie.

[aj1987]

Maybe Pierce is... maybe...

but Ray Allen definitely isn't - that's impossible when Reggie scores almost 30% more than him in the playoffs and showed he could be the focal point and #1 option on a team that went to the Finals.... I don't care HOW much you guys like Ray's handles more.

Reggie didn't need Lebron/Bosh/Wade/Pierce/Garnett to get to the Finals... you feel me?.... whew... that was a doozy just saying all the names.
You went from 25% to 30%? Don't skip math classes, kid.

Allen > Reggie, BTW.

[Papaya Petee]

You are the most retarded poster in the history. Nobody agrees, then you proceed to argue the same retarded (like you) argument over and over.

How about Ray Allens PPG in the playoffs and regular season dropped because he spend his last 2 seasons as an off the bench player?

[3ball]

You went from 25% to 30%? Don't skip math classes, kid.

Allen > Reggie, BTW.
Reggie averaged 20.6 PPG in the playoffs, to Allen's 16.1 PPG... that's between 25% and 30% more... my post said "almost 30%", so that's pretty accurate.

Reggie not only scored far more in the playoffs - he did so more efficiently as measured by TS%, FG%, and ORtg... Ray is able to match Reggie's regular season scoring at 18 PPG, but again, Reggie is more efficient by every measure, over a very big sample size.

Also, Reggie was taller (6'7") with a bigger and longer frame, so he looked much bigger standing next to a guy like Jordan, and could be more physical (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbL5U3MUzWA)... Otoh, Ray Allen looked tiny next to Jordan and it was a huge mismatch - Allen was brushed off like a flea (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCOJQOMEJ4Y) and thoroughly dominated the same season as Reggie playoff heroics vs the Bulls (1998).

Reggie's taller and bigger size allowed him to do everything that much easier, as evidenced by his ability to make the Finals as the #1 option and alpha leader of his team, WITHOUT needing the bevy of superstars Allen needed... and once Reggie had led HIS TEAM to the Finals, he averaged 24 ppg heads-up with Kobe Bryant, while holding Kobe to 19 ppg on 36% shooting... Ray cannot match that, and never came remotely close.

[Dro]

Argument has already been beaten to death with a stick. They are very close to each other and is probably a matter of preference if you pick one over the other. Anyone saying that one is much better than the other probably never saw them play in their primes and is not worth discussing with further.
This......

[KayHaven]

Ray Allen

Better overall

However if I needed to pick who had the best prime...I might say Reggie. 93-96 Reggie was pretty scary. And was much more of an Alpha then Ray.

However....we could never really say how much of an Alpha Ray could've been because his prime years we're wasted away in Shi#*y Seattle. With absolutely no form of help.

And as far as the playoff numbers that 3ball keeps alluding to. Ray had 6 years total of playoff appearances where he wasn't a #1 scoring option..hell maybe not a top 2. And then in his prime years in Seattle when he would've upped his playoff numbers they couldn't really make the playoffs cause the West was supremely stacked and he had no help.

[3ball]

Argument has already been beaten to death with a stick. They are very close to each other and is probably a matter of preference if you pick one over the other.


Except Jordan treated Ray Allen like a rag doll, whereas Reggie was actually able to compete with him quite well.

Also, they aren't that close to one another - one scored almost 30% more in the playoffs than the other, and was able to lead a team to the Finals as the #1 option, without needing a bevy of superstars.

That's not close.

[tontoz]

Miller shot 3% better from 2, got to the foul line more and was the better clutch/playoff performer. Allen has no case over him.

[smoovegittar]

Close call. Miller had WAY more pressure on him to win one for Indy. As much as I hated that team, I had respect for their game. Ray is a better player all- around, but needed to get the hell out of Milwaukee to win a ship.

Player-wise, I go with Allen. But Miller was an all-star as well... and a killer.

[deja vu]

Reggie was the better clutch player and competitor. Both are killers in the clutch but Reggie edges Ray a little bit. Ray was slightly better all around though.

You can't go wrong with either player.

[KrizMiz]

I take reggie any day

[Boston C's]

that's really interesting fellas... :applause: ... but the stats tell a much different story:

Regular Season

Miller: 18.2 PPG, 47.1% FG, 61.4 TS
Allen: 18.6 PPG, 45.2% FG, 58.0 TS


Playoffs

Miller: 20.6 PPG, 44.9% FG, 60.1% TS
Allen: 16.0 PPG, 44.3% FG, 58.0% TS


Of course, Reggie Miller made the Finals as the leader and #1 option on his team, and was FAR more clutch, with FAR more big moments.

Otoh, Ray Allen needed Garnett/Pierce, and then Lebron/Wade/Bosh to make the Finals - Unlike Miller, Allen never showed that a team built around him as the #1 option, could be good enough to make the Finals.

Your last point is so stupid, allen was one game away from the finals... He got closer to the finals then Pierce and Garnett did and I damn sure won't sit here and proclaim allen greater then them...so my question to you is since you supposedly can't build around Ray to get to the finals does this also apply to Garnett and Pierce as well? Because you'd be looking pretty dumb to think that

If you want to think Reggie is better then Ray fine that's your opinion but I really don't see it...Ray literally did everything on the basketball court better then Reggie including his calling card which was shooting also hit numerous clutch shots including arguably the biggest in NBA history

[plowking]

Grant Hill was overall a better offensive AND defensive player than Kevin Durant....

But who was more impactful?

Umm no, he wasn't either of those at his peak.

Grant became a good defender in the later part of his career. Even he'll tell you how little effort he put in on defense earlier in his career.

Durant is far and away better offensively and slightly better defensively compared to peak Hill.

[plowking]

And lol at Reggie being a clutcher player than Ray.

What is this based on? Look at Reggie's career and tell me the big series this dude freaking won outside of that one nice run in the playoffs. More often than not this dude lost his big playoff series'.

I've never seen a player rise up the all time list, and generate such a BS narrative around his career than Reggie Miller. Dude was a fringe all NBA third team player most his career, and we talk about him like he is some all time great? Petrovic was a better player at his peak and no one ever talks about him. Stojakovic was another player with a similar game that was better. Mullin another. Rice another. Richmond another. None of these dudes ever get talked about nearly as much as Reggie.

[NBASTATMAN]

In the regular season you can say that Allen was better but Allen was never as good as a playoff REGGIE MILLER..

Id take Miller cuz of what he did when the playoffs came along.. Ray Allen got shut down by Derek Fisher in 2010.. That would never happen to Miller..

[Quickening]

3ball doesn't watch basketball, I doubt he even seen MJ play. Just looks at box scores of players and copy and pastes

[plowking]

In the regular season you can say that Allen was better but Allen was never as good as a playoff REGGIE MILLER..

Id take Miller cuz of what he did when the playoffs came along.. Ray Allen got shut down by Derek Fisher in 2010.. That would never happen to Miller..

What did Miller do in the playoffs exactly?

The only time he beat the Knicks was when he had a way better team. Dude literally never came up big when needed prior.

98-99 despite having the better team, loses to the Knicks. 8 points in the last game of the series and shoots 36% for the series averaging 16ppg.
97-98, plays poorly again and his team loses the series.
94-95, team gets blown out in game 7 against the Magic. He puts up a 5-13 effort.
93-94, loses to the Knicks in 7, again underperforming in the last game.

Outside of the one finals run, it was all first rounds apart from that. Dude always shrunk in big games yet is considered clutch.

He is a good player who hit a bunch of memorable shots in NBA history that will stick with people. Good shooters always will.

People calling him some clutch god? Get outta here.