James Harden's last 3 playoff series of bricks

[Doranku]

vs Miami
2-6
7-11
2-10
2-10
5-11
L

vs OKC
6-19
9-24
9-22
4-12
10-16
7-22
L

vs Portland
8-28
6-19
13-35
9-21
5-15
9-15
L

Total: 113/296 (38.2%) :biggums:



I understand that the MVP is a regular season award, but the postseason is what really matters obviously. If Harden has another one of these putrid performances after winning MVP, will he surpass Derrick Rose as the worst MVP of all time?

[Genaro]

If he doesn't show up in the playoffs again no one will take him seriously after this. It's basically his last chance to build a respectable legacy.

[Smoke117]

vs Miami
2-6
7-11
2-10
2-10
5-11
L

vs OKC
6-19
9-24
9-22
4-12
10-16
7-22
L

vs Portland
8-28
6-19
13-35
9-21
5-15
9-15
L

Total: 113/296 (38.2%) :biggums:



I understand that the MVP is a regular season award, but the postseason is what really matters obviously. If Harden has another one of these putrid performances after winning MVP, will he surpass Derrick Rose as the worst MVP of all time?


No, because as you said...postseason has no bearing on MVP.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Rose shot 39% when he lost in the playoffs his MVP year

What about Dirk losing as the #1 seed to the #8th when he got his MVP award?

[Smook A.]

will he surpass Derrick Rose as the worst MVP of all time?
Steve Nash was way worse

[UK2K]

vs Miami
2-6
7-11
2-10
2-10
5-11
L

vs OKC
6-19
9-24
9-22
4-12
10-16
7-22
L

vs Portland
8-28
6-19
13-35
9-21
5-15
9-15
L

Total: 113/296 (38.2%) :biggums:



I understand that the MVP is a regular season award, but the postseason is what really matters obviously. If Harden has another one of these putrid performances after winning MVP, will he surpass Derrick Rose as the worst MVP of all time?
Sounds like you have too much time, too much hate, and not enough friends.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Still wouldn't surpass dirk putting up 19.7 on 38% while Kosinski to an eighth seed

[Droid101]

Still wouldn't surpass dirk putting up 19.7 on 38% while Kosinski to an eighth seed
I want to hug this auto-correct.

[SugarHill]

I want to hug this auto-correct.
:oldlol:

[L.Kizzle]

Steph Curry basically has this seasons MVP on lock.

[imnew09]

Winning regular season MVP literally means that the best player on the TOP TEAM in NBA gets it. He wont win it unless Houston gets 1st seed.

[Eric Cartman]

Winning regular season MVP literally means that the best player on the TOP TEAM in NBA gets it. He wont win it unless Houston gets 1st seed.

Bullshit.

[rezznor]

Winning regular season MVP literally means that the best player on the TOP TEAM in NBA gets it. He wont win it unless Houston gets 1st seed.
:biggums:

[JebronLames]

Harden having a better season than any season kobe had :roll: hope he gets that MVP

[Wade's Rings]

Harden having a better season than any season kobe had :roll: hope he gets that MVP

I don't even like Kobe and this sounds beyond stupid to me.

[Droid101]

Harden having a better season than any season kobe had :roll: hope he gets that MVP
:rolleyes:
Kobe has had more years better than current Harden than he's had years worse than current Harden.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Does it make anybody else sick that Brian Windhorst votes for the MVP

Bill Simmons too, which is ridiculous considering how biased Simmons is and is very open about how biased he is (hates Kobe and anything Laker related)

[Fire Colangelo]

Steve Nash was way worse

Steve Nash was way worse?

2006

First round: 15/11/4 on 57% TS (his worst playoff series in his MVP years) swept the Grizzlies.

Second round: 30/12/7 on 64% TS :bowdown: :bowdown: beat the Mavs 4-2

WCF: 23/11/4 on 58% TS and loses to eventual champs.

2007

First round: 21/10/4 on 63% TS, beat Lakers 4-3 without Stoudemire

Second round: 18/11/3 on 58% TS, beat the Clips 4-3 without Stoudemire

WCF: 21/10/3 on on 63% TS, loses to Mavs in 6 without Stoudemire

Steve always overachieves in the playoffs, Derrick Rose doesn't come close to being as impactful as Steve.

[JT123]

A Kobe fan talking shit about field goal percentage? :biggums: :facepalm

[TheMarkMadsen]

Steve Nash was way worse

Nash won the MVP and then bounced Dirk (his former teammate) out of the playoffs the very next year

05 Nash MVP is alpha

[russwest0]

Does it make anybody else sick that Brian Windhorst votes for the MVP

Bill Simmons too, which is ridiculous considering how biased Simmons is and is very open about how biased he is (hates Kobe and anything Laker related)

Both of those guys actually get votes?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

The MVP award is pointless as f*ck.

[tamaraw08]

vs Miami

Total: 113/296 (38.2%) :biggums:

.

I understand that the MVP is a regular season award, but the postseason is what really matters obviously. If Harden has another one of these putrid performances after winning MVP, will he surpass Derrick Rose as the worst MVP of all time?
I see what you are saying esp when he gets away by inviting contact so he can go the line for like 8 times/game.
Having said that, Iverson shot 39% when he lead the Sixers to the finals in 2001. Iverson has a career 40% for the playoffs

[UK2K]

I see what you are saying esp when he gets away by inviting contact so he can go the line for like 8 times/game.
Having said that, Iverson shot 39% when he lead the Sixers to the finals in 2001. Iverson has a career 40% for the playoffs

I mean 38% is 38%, but the difference between 38% and 45% is one made shot if youre shooting 20 times per game.

FG% is so overblown on ISH.

[JT123]

I mean 38% is 38%, but the difference between 38% and 45% is one made shot if youre shooting 20 times per game.

FG% is so overblown on ISH.
:oldlol:

[T_L_P]

:rolleyes:
Kobe has had more years better than current Harden than he's had years worse than current Harden.

14-15 Harden:

27.6/5.6/6.7/2.0/0.8/.616 TS%

27.9 PER
.290 WS/48
8.9 BPM
8.1 VORP

Kobe has played 18 seasons (didn't include 13-14 because he played just 6 games)

Kobe's had a PER above 27.9 once (28.0)
He's never come close to a .290 WS/48 (.224)
Same with BPM (5.9)
Same with VORP (6.8)
Same with TS% (.580)

Quit lying, stan. Harden is a known Playoff choker but his current Regular Season is better than almost all of Kobe's.

[IllegalD]

14-15 Harden:

27.6/5.6/6.7/2.0/0.8/.616 TS%

27.9 PER
.290 WS/48
8.9 BPM
8.1 VORP

Kobe has played 18 seasons (didn't include 13-14 because he played just 6 games)

Kobe's had a PER above 27.9 once (28.0)
He's never come close to a .290 WS/48 (.224)
Same with BPM (5.9)
Same with VORP (6.8)
Same with TS% (.580)

Quit lying, stan. Harden is a known Playoff choker but his current Regular Season is better than almost all of Kobe's.

Defense...? :confusedshrug:

Just an insecure Duncan stan buttsore that Kobe > Duncan as player of his era.

[T_L_P]

Defense...? :confusedshrug:

Just an insecure Duncan stan buttsore that Kobe > Duncan as player of his era.

Defense was truly elite up until around 03. Even PJax said after that he was just a gambler who didn't aid his team on the other end.

Harden's current season is better than most of Kobe's. That will obviously change in the Playoffs, because Kobe played all time great basketball there and Harden simply chokes. But as it currently stands...

Current Harden is also having a better Regular Season than the vast majority of Duncan's too (better than all but 01, 02, 03, 04 and 07).

But still...boiled down:

Duncan - 5
The tired old shit bag - 5

[Doranku]

PER
WS/48
BPM
VORP



:oldlol:

[Droid101]

Defense was truly elite up until around 03. Even PJax said after that he was just a gambler who didn't aid his team on the other end.

Harden's current season is better than most of Kobe's. That will obviously change in the Playoffs, because Kobe played all time great basketball there and Harden simply chokes. But as it currently stands...

Current Harden is also having a better Regular Season than the vast majority of Duncan's too (better than all but 01, 02, 03, 04 and 07).

But still...boiled down:

Duncan - 5
The tired old shit bag - 5Kobe >> Duncan and will live on in history as a better player forever.

Mad?

[T_L_P]

Kobe >> Duncan and will live on in history as a better player forever.

Mad?

Who knew, another Kobe stan who can't form a rational argument.

Harden and Duncan are competing for championships...and the tired and shit bag even admitted that fact haunts him. His highlight this season was joking around with Kevin Love and LeBron on TV. :oldlol:

http://espn.go.com/espn/fp/flashPollResultsState?sportIndex=nba&pollId=4587835

[Doranku]

Who knew, another Kobe stan who can't form a rational argument.

Harden and Duncan are competing for championships...and the tired and shit bag even admitted that fact haunts him. :oldlol:

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

I've won as many playoff series as James Harden has as a Houston Rocket and you're trying to say this dude is competing for championships? C'mon, now. :oldlol:

And Kobe's highlight this season was passing Michael Jordan, the greatest player to ever pick up a basketball, in career points. You've become so blinded by rage over Kobe being >>> Duncan that you've resorted to pure trolling. Sad.

[navy]

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

I've won as many playoff series as James Harden has as a Houston Rocket and you're trying to say this dude is competing for championships? C'mon, now. :oldlol:
James Harden has been a starter for three years and has honestly gotten better every year. Give him time.

[GrapeApe]

14-15 Harden:

27.6/5.6/6.7/2.0/0.8/.616 TS%

27.9 PER
.290 WS/48
8.9 BPM
8.1 VORP

Kobe has played 18 seasons (didn't include 13-14 because he played just 6 games)

Kobe's had a PER above 27.9 once (28.0)
He's never come close to a .290 WS/48 (.224)
Same with BPM (5.9)
Same with VORP (6.8)
Same with TS% (.580)

Quit lying, stan. Harden is a known Playoff choker but his current Regular Season is better than almost all of Kobe's.

I'd take Kobe every year from '01-'10 over current Harden.

[Rooster]

Defense was truly elite up until around 03. Even PJax said after that he was just a gambler who didn't aid his team on the other end.

Harden's current season is better than most of Kobe's. That will obviously change in the Playoffs, because Kobe played all time great basketball there and Harden simply chokes. But as it currently stands...

Current Harden is also having a better Regular Season than the vast majority of Duncan's too (better than all but 01, 02, 03, 04 and 07).

But still...boiled down:

Duncan - 5
The tired old shit bag - 5

Nah, Kobe was always great defender, he started to play the passing lanes more later on his career. Just reminded me when the last time Lakers beat young Thunder team, Westbrook was having his way and Kobe switched on him and he just can't do shit. However I think the 2008- 2009 season might be his last great defense and I watched most of those games.

[T_L_P]

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

I've won as many playoff series as James Harden has as a Houston Rocket and you're trying to say this dude is competing for championships? C'mon, now. :oldlol:

And Kobe's highlight this season was passing Michael Jordan, the greatest player to ever pick up a basketball, in career points. You've become so blinded by rage over Kobe being >>> Duncan that you've resorted to pure trolling. Sad.

But you see, if you read my above posts...I'm not.

Harden is having a better RS than most of Duncan's too. Better than most of Dirk's. Better than most of KG's. There's no shame in admitting that. It'll fade out come Playoff time but you can't use speculation as fact :confusedshrug:

EDIT: also, he passed Jordan for total Regular Season points (Jordan still has more with total points with Playoff points added, even though he's played less Playoff games).

[Rooster]

James Harden has been a starter for three years and has honestly gotten better every year. Give him time.

Last night was the very first time I saw him live and I was impressed. Lakers were awful but still Harden pick them apart. His timing and his ability to read the defense is a mark of a great player. The only problem is he's the only Rocket than can do this. If a team decided to trap him, I have a lot of doubts if the rest of that team will make them pay. Rockets need another star to be a real contender.

[ImKobe]

14-15 Harden:

27.6/5.6/6.7/2.0/0.8/.616 TS%

27.9 PER
.290 WS/48
8.9 BPM
8.1 VORP

Kobe has played 18 seasons (didn't include 13-14 because he played just 6 games)

Kobe's had a PER above 27.9 once (28.0)
He's never come close to a .290 WS/48 (.224)
Same with BPM (5.9)
Same with VORP (6.8)
Same with TS% (.580)

Quit lying, stan. Harden is a known Playoff choker but his current Regular Season is better than almost all of Kobe's.

lol you're comparing Harden's numbers through October-January to Kobe's full seasons..in the same time period in 06, he was averaging 37,6 ppg through 38 games and 43/6/4 on 47/40/90 shooting in 13 games in January...

And who really cares about the regular season? No one uses regular seasons to make cases for someone to be the GOAT. Truth is that Harden is a shitty Playoff performer which means his career up to this point has been shitty.

There have been many players that have put up better numbers or at least comparable numbers to Kobe's regular seasons...like Arenas, Michael Redd, Jerry Stackhouse, Dwyane Wade, T-Mac, Iverson etc

But none of them are on Kobe's level because none of them have the Playoff resume required. D-Wade led a team to a title and we still don't put him on Kobe's level because Kobe led 5 teams to the Finals(2001, 2004, 2008-10) as the #1 guy and won 2 Finals MVPs.

[tpols]

But you see, if you read my above posts...I'm not.

Harden is having a better RS than most of Duncan's too. Better than most of Dirk's. Better than most of KG's. There's no shame in admitting that. It'll fade out come Playoff time but you can't use speculation as fact :confusedshrug:

EDIT: also, he passed Jordan for total Regular Season points (Jordan still has more with total points with Playoff points added, even though he's played less Playoff games).

:facepalm

No.

If youre going to use advanced stats at least use the good ones.. PER, winshares, etc are pure garbage and just an arbitrary aggregate of raw stats.

[Droid101]

TLP taking losses left and right.

Retire dude. Better to do it before your idol does, it'll make the blow less harsh.

[T_L_P]

lol you're comparing Harden's numbers through October-January to Kobe's full seasons..in the same time period in 06, he was averaging 37,6 ppg through 38 games and 43/6/4 on 47/40/90 shooting in 13 games in January...

And who really cares about the regular season? No one uses regular seasons to make cases for someone to be the GOAT. Truth is that Harden is a shitty Playoff performer which means his career up to this point has been shitty.

There have been many players that have put up better numbers or at least comparable numbers to Kobe's regular seasons...like Arenas, Michael Redd, Jerry Stackhouse, Dwyane Wade, T-Mac, Iverson etc

But none of them are on Kobe's level because none of them have the Playoff resume required. D-Wade led a team to a title and we still don't put him on Kobe's level because Kobe led 5 teams to the Finals(2001, 2004, 2008-10) as the #1 guy and won 2 Finals MVPs.

I've said this exact same thing a few times now. It won't last. Kobe played ATG Playoff ball and Harden almost certainly won't. I replied to a post that simply that at least 9 of Kobe's 18 seasons are better than what Harden has done from November-February.

And I think you know that's not true. Harden has been pretty amazing so far, and I also said his current RS is better than most of Duncan's, Dirk's Garnett's, Wade's too (so I'm not just doing this to diminish Kobe or anything, simply explaining how great Harden has been).

Of course, DROID and the lot were getting pretty defensive and turned it into a troll fest. :confusedshrug:

[GrapeApe]

lol you're comparing Harden's numbers through October-January to Kobe's full seasons..in the same time period in 06, he was averaging 37,6 ppg through 38 games and 43/6/4 on 47/40/90 shooting in 13 games in January...

And who really cares about the regular season? No one uses regular seasons to make cases for someone to be the GOAT. Truth is that Harden is a shitty Playoff performer which means his career up to this point has been shitty.

There have been many players that have put up better numbers or at least comparable numbers to Kobe's regular seasons...like Arenas, Michael Redd, Jerry Stackhouse, Dwyane Wade, T-Mac, Iverson etc

But none of them are on Kobe's level because none of them have the Playoff resume required. D-Wade led a team to a title and we still don't put him on Kobe's level because Kobe led 5 teams to the Finals(2001, 2004, 2008-10) as the #1 guy and won 2 Finals MVPs.

:biggums:

[T_L_P]

:facepalm

No.

If youre going to use advanced stats at least use the good ones.. PER, winshares, etc are pure garbage and just an arbitrary aggregate of raw stats.

Harden's RAPM/RPM is better than Kobe's ever has been. And I know that's a stat you like.

[ImKobe]

I've said this exact same thing a few times now. It won't last. Kobe played ATG Playoff ball and Harden almost certainly won't. I replied to a post that simply that at least 9 of Kobe's 18 seasons are better than what Harden has done from November-February.

And I think you know that's not true. Harden has been pretty amazing so far, and I also said his current RS is better than most of Duncan's, Dirk's Garnett's, Wade's too (so I'm not just doing this to diminish Kobe or anything, simply explaining how great Harden has been).

Of course, DROID and the lot were getting pretty defensive and turned it into a troll fest. :confusedshrug:

I agree that the stats favor Harden if you're just comparing numbers to numbers without any context to them, but I do believe Kobe has had better numbers through the same time period in some regular seasons, obviously not in 9 out of 18 seasons or whatever, but 2003 & 2006 for sure and 2008 is close. Kobe's style of play has never really translated well to the stat sheet because he takes a lot of tough shots and doesn't care about missing while some of these new guys cherry pick their shots (only shoot when open, etc). I applaud Harden for his season so far, but I can't go further than that because we had the same kind of hype for the past 2 seasons and he disappeared late in the season (when every game was a must win to get a higher seed) and in the Playoffs.

Harden is more of a team player and plays a more efficient game that works well in the regular season, but we have yet to see it carry over to the Playoffs because he doesn't get those bs calls.

[tpols]

Harden's RAPM/RPM is better than Kobe's ever has been. And I know that's a stat you like.

Kobes had higher offensive rapms than harden this year.. And off .1 in total.

But Ive heard posters say that espns rpm isnt the same rapm. I guess the 'adjusted' part makes a difference somehow.

[UK2K]

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

I've won as many playoff series as James Harden has as a Houston Rocket and you're trying to say this dude is competing for championships? C'mon, now. :oldlol:

And Kobe's highlight this season was passing Michael Jordan, the greatest player to ever pick up a basketball, in career points. You've become so blinded by rage over Kobe being >>> Duncan that you've resorted to pure trolling. Sad.

In all one of his seasons there?

Yep, you're right, failure, get him out of here.

:lol

[UK2K]

TLP taking losses left and right.

Retire dude. Better to do it before your idol does, it'll make the blow less harsh.
Same guy that argued Butler was a better defender than Harden by using a statistic that ranked Butler BEHIND Harden.

[dunksby]

Give him a break, dude plays in an all-time stacked conference.

[ArbitraryWater]

Defense was truly elite up until around 03. Even PJax said after that he was just a gambler who didn't aid his team on the other end.

Harden's current season is better than most of Kobe's. That will obviously change in the Playoffs, because Kobe played all time great basketball there and Harden simply chokes. But as it currently stands...

Current Harden is also having a better Regular Season than the vast majority of Duncan's too (better than all but 01, 02, 03, 04 and 07).

But still...boiled down:

Duncan - 5
The tired old shit bag - 5

:roll: :roll:

[Doranku]

In all one of his seasons there?

Yep, you're right, failure, get him out of here.

:lol
:oldlol: I don't even have to try.

[ronnymac]

Haters see this years harden has improved so much that to make themselves feel good they bring up the past. Let's see how the playoffs in this season.

[Doranku]

Haters see this years harden has improved so much that to make themselves feel good they bring up the past. Let's see how the playoffs in this season.

What are you going to say when he has another sub-40% shooting performance while leading the Rockets to yet another first round exit?

[chazzy]

The tired old shit bag - 5
What kind of lame nickname is this, and why do you keep using it

[Droid101]

Same guy that argued Butler was a better defender than Harden by using a statistic that ranked Butler BEHIND Harden.
He's a sad, tired piece of shit. I guess we should cut him some slack.

[UK2K]

What are you going to say when he has another sub-40% shooting performance while leading the Rockets to yet another first round exit?
I don't know any Rockets fans who are expecting a title this season.

If they lose, they lose, but I know every season they get better and better. Morey will make the moves he needs to make, the team will get more experience, and maybe stay injury free for the first two months.

I don't want to make any assumptions yet. I want to see a month of Terrence Jones back on the court before I determine what I would find acceptable.

[Artillery]

What kind of lame nickname is this, and why do you keep using it

It's the truth though. Kobe can't even get on the court while Duncan's still playing 31 mins every night on a playoff team(at age 39). That's what separates the all-time greats(like TD) from the lower tier players like Kobe.

[Artillery]

Also, :oldlol: at anyone arguing Kobe being good defender. He's been a bad defender his entire career(look at his career DRAPM numbers). His impact has always been on offense. He's the perfect example of a one-way player. If you want to make fun of Harden's defense, fine. But let's not pretend Kobe was ever a good defender.

[Droid101]

Also, :oldlol: at anyone arguing Kobe being good defender. He's been a bad defender his entire career.
:rolleyes:

Say what you want about the last 7 years... but come on. This is a stupid statement. He was amazing in the early 2000's.

[Artillery]

:rolleyes:

Say what you want about the last 7 years... but come on. This is a stupid statement. He was amazing in the early 2000's.

14 year RAPM(2001-2014) says he's been a negative defender over that time period. The following post is coped from a poster on another forum:

So I took the DRAPM(defensive RAPM) numbers of all the guards and small forwards and organized them from best to worst just to see where Kobe stacks up. He has 12 All-Defensive selections so he should be pretty high up there, right? I didn't include young guys like George, Butler, Green, Leonard, etc because it wouldn't be fair to compare TOSB Kobe with them so I only included players that could be considered his peers(or close enough).

4.0 - Tony Allen
3.4 - Metta
3.3 - Eddie Jones
3.1 - Bruce Bowen
3.1 - Christie
3.0 - Deng
2.8 - Iguodala
2.8 - Battier
2.8 - Thabo
2.5 - Marion
2.5 - G Wallace
2.2 - Lebron
2.2 - Pierce
2.2 - Eric Snow
1.9 - Ariza
1.7 - Manu
1.5 - Kidd
1.4 - Vince Carter
1.2 - Baron Davis
1.2 - Josh Howard
1.2 - Bobby Jackson
1.1 - James Posey
1.1 - Fisher
1.0 - Ronnie Brewer
0.9 - Devean George
0.9 - Luke Walton
0.9 - Mike Dunleavy
0.8 - Chris Paul
0.7 - Prince
0.7 - Earl Watson
0.7 - Anthony Parker
0.7 - Sasha Pavlovic
0.6 - Turkoglu
0.5 - McGrady
0.5 - Rashard Lewis
0.5 - TJ Ford
0.4 - Wade
0.4 - James Jones
0.3 - Rafer Alston
0.3 - Livingston
0.2 - Daniel Gibson
0.1 - Delfino
0.1 - Giricek
0.1 - Kyle Korver
0.1 - Matt Barnes
0.0 - Duhon
0.0 - Derek Anderson
-0.1 - Mobley
-0.2 - Tinsley
-0.2 - Joe Johnson
-0.2 - Raja Bell
-0.2 - Cassell
-0.3 - Andre Miller
-0.3 - Marco Jaric
-0.4 - Brent Barry
-0.4 - Rondo
-0.4 - SJax
-0.5 - Rip Hamilton
-0.5 - Jameer Nelson
-0.5 - Jordan Farmar
-0.5 - Keith Bogans
-0.5 - Reggie Miller
-0.5 - Mike James
-0.5 - Steve Francis
-0.5 - Courtney Lee
-0.5 - Granger
-0.6 - Dorrel Wright
-0.6 - Steve Nash
-0.6 - Tony Parker
-0.7 - Devin Harris
-0.7 - Grant Hill
-0.8 - Caron Butler
-0.8 - Stackhouse
-0.8 - Iverson
-0.9 - CJ Miles
-0.9 - Vaughn
-0.9 - John Salmons
-0.9 - Kobe

There's quite a few after Kobe but I didn't want to continue sorting through that list any longer than necessary. If you include all positions, Duncan and Garnett are at the top of the list for defense. Makes sense that those two have won so many All-Defensive selections. What the **** did Kobe do to get twelve of them though?

[2010splash]

Kobe is the worst MVP of all time. He is very inefficient and won the award purely through volume shot jacking. Harden might be better than Kobe ever was.

[Artillery]

Kobe is the worst MVP of all time. He is very inefficient and won the award purely through volume shot jacking. Harden might be better than Kobe ever was.

He's already accomplished more with Dwight than Kobe has. Kobe needed the league to rig games just to make the playoffs with a 27 year old Howard. Imagine if Harden got to play with HOF big men like Shaq or Pau?

[Droid101]

14 year RAPM(2001-2014) says he's been a negative defender over that time period.
Did I stutter?


Say what you want about the last 7 years... but come on. This is a stupid statement. He was amazing in the early 2000's.

[RRR3]

This board is so much fun to read sometimes. Love it.

Droid, Tlp, Doranku, tpols, arbitrary. I love you guys :cry:

[Droid101]

This board is so much fun to read sometimes. Love it.

Droid, Tlp, Doranku, tpols, arbitrary. I love you guys :cry:
:cheers:

[Rooster]

14 year RAPM(2001-2014) says he's been a negative defender over that time period. The following post is coped from a poster on another forum:

So I took the DRAPM(defensive RAPM) numbers of all the guards and small forwards and organized them from best to worst just to see where Kobe stacks up. He has 12 All-Defensive selections so he should be pretty high up there, right? I didn't include young guys like George, Butler, Green, Leonard, etc because it wouldn't be fair to compare TOSB Kobe with them so I only included players that could be considered his peers(or close enough).

4.0 - Tony Allen
3.4 - Metta
3.3 - Eddie Jones
3.1 - Bruce Bowen
3.1 - Christie
3.0 - Deng
2.8 - Iguodala
2.8 - Battier
2.8 - Thabo
2.5 - Marion
2.5 - G Wallace
2.2 - Lebron
2.2 - Pierce
2.2 - Eric Snow
1.9 - Ariza
1.7 - Manu
1.5 - Kidd
1.4 - Vince Carter
1.2 - Baron Davis
1.2 - Josh Howard
1.2 - Bobby Jackson
1.1 - James Posey
1.1 - Fisher
1.0 - Ronnie Brewer
0.9 - Devean George
0.9 - Luke Walton
0.9 - Mike Dunleavy
0.8 - Chris Paul
0.7 - Prince
0.7 - Earl Watson
0.7 - Anthony Parker
0.7 - Sasha Pavlovic
0.6 - Turkoglu
0.5 - McGrady
0.5 - Rashard Lewis
0.5 - TJ Ford
0.4 - Wade
0.4 - James Jones
0.3 - Rafer Alston
0.3 - Livingston
0.2 - Daniel Gibson
0.1 - Delfino
0.1 - Giricek
0.1 - Kyle Korver
0.1 - Matt Barnes
0.0 - Duhon
0.0 - Derek Anderson
-0.1 - Mobley
-0.2 - Tinsley
-0.2 - Joe Johnson
-0.2 - Raja Bell
-0.2 - Cassell
-0.3 - Andre Miller
-0.3 - Marco Jaric
-0.4 - Brent Barry
-0.4 - Rondo
-0.4 - SJax
-0.5 - Rip Hamilton
-0.5 - Jameer Nelson
-0.5 - Jordan Farmar
-0.5 - Keith Bogans
-0.5 - Reggie Miller
-0.5 - Mike James
-0.5 - Steve Francis
-0.5 - Courtney Lee
-0.5 - Granger
-0.6 - Dorrel Wright
-0.6 - Steve Nash
-0.6 - Tony Parker
-0.7 - Devin Harris
-0.7 - Grant Hill
-0.8 - Caron Butler
-0.8 - Stackhouse
-0.8 - Iverson
-0.9 - CJ Miles
-0.9 - Vaughn
-0.9 - John Salmons
-0.9 - Kobe

There's quite a few after Kobe but I didn't want to continue sorting through that list any longer than necessary. If you include all positions, Duncan and Garnett are at the top of the list for defense. Makes sense that those two have won so many All-Defensive selections. What the **** did Kobe do to get twelve of them though?

I never knew Luke Walton was a good defensive player after watching all his years with the Lakers.:oldlol: Shit even Skip was a better defender than Rondo. :oldlol:

[RRR3]

On topic: Harden is a stud but let's cool the brakes before we put him up there with prime Kobe, who was a great playoff performer. Love me some Harden hope he does well, but Bean has quite a legacy.

[Droid101]

I never knew Luke Walton was a good defensive player after watching all his years with the Lakers.:oldlol: Shit even Skip was a better defender than Rondo. :oldlol:
:bowdown:

[RRR3]

:bowdown:
Wasn't Luke Walton basically the Lakers Scalabrine?

Although, I have heard that he was decent before he got injured?
IIRC Phil spoke highly of him in his book (I did a report on PJ in college)

[Rooster]

Wasn't Luke Walton basically the Lakers Scalabrine?

Although, I have heard that he was decent before he got injured?
IIRC Phil spoke highly of him in his book (I did a report on PJ in college)

Before Gasol came along, Luke was important part of offense. Phil used to run the triangle through him on the post. He has that low post move around the painted area with a turnaround jumper and that's a very good looking shot. And Luke can read the defense and was a great passer. So no he was never our White Mamba.

[Artillery]

Did I stutter?

You said he was amazing in the early 2000s. Kobe's individual DRAPM numbers from that period:

-1.63 - 1998 Kobe
-1.82 - 1999 Kobe
-1.70 - 2000 Kobe
+0.1 - 2002 Kobe
+0.1 - 2003 Kobe
-0.6 - 2004 Kobe
-1.1 - 2005 Kobe
-1.2 - 2006 Kobe
-0.5 - 2007 Kobe

So he was terrible for almost every year. He had two years where he was an average defender for his position. Both years(2002 and 2003), he wasn't even a top 5 defensive guard or wing.

2002 guards/wings with a better DRAPM than Kobe:

1.8 - Christie
1.6 - Pierce
1.6 - Eric Snow
1.6 - John Stockton
1.5 - Charlie Ward
1.5 - George
1.3 - Richard Jefferson
1.2 - Morris Peterson
1.0 - Kidd
1.0 - Eddie Jones
1.0 - Fisher
1.0 - Kenny Anderson
0.8 - Baron Davis
0.7 - McGrady
0.6 - Artest
0.6 - Bowen
0.5 - Marion
0.4 - James Posey
0.3 - Steve Francis

2003 guards/wings with a better DRAPM than Kobe:

3.4 - Christie
1.8 - Marion
1.8 - Richard Jefferson
1.7 - Finley
1.7 - Charlie Ward
1.5 - Eddie Jones
1.5 - James Posey
1.5 - Eric Snow
1.5 - Steve Francis
1.4 - Pierce
1.4 - Kidd
1.4 - George
1.2 - Earl Watson
1.1 - Stockton
0.9 - Bowen
0.9 - Harpring
0.7 - Artest
0.7 - Damon Stoudemire

And this was just a quick copy/paste job. I didn't even include every guard or wing that was better than Kobe. That would have taken too much time going through those lists.

Again, you said he was an amazing defender in the early 2000s. There's nothing amazing about those numbers.

[Rooster]

You said he was amazing in the early 2000s. Kobe's individual DRAPM numbers from that period:

-1.63 - 1998 Kobe
-1.82 - 1999 Kobe
-1.70 - 2000 Kobe
+0.1 - 2002 Kobe
+0.1 - 2003 Kobe
-0.6 - 2004 Kobe
-1.1 - 2005 Kobe
-1.2 - 2006 Kobe
-0.5 - 2007 Kobe

So he was terrible for almost every year. He had two years where he was an average defender for his position. Both years(2002 and 2003), he wasn't even a top 5 defensive guard or wing.

2002 guards/wings with a better DRAPM than Kobe:

1.8 - Christie
1.6 - Pierce
1.6 - Eric Snow
1.6 - John Stockton
1.5 - Charlie Ward
1.5 - George
1.3 - Richard Jefferson
1.2 - Morris Peterson
1.0 - Kidd
1.0 - Eddie Jones
1.0 - Fisher
1.0 - Kenny Anderson
0.8 - Baron Davis
0.7 - McGrady
0.6 - Artest
0.6 - Bowen
0.5 - Marion
0.4 - James Posey
0.3 - Steve Francis

2003 guards/wings with a better DRAPM than Kobe:

3.4 - Christie
1.8 - Marion
1.8 - Richard Jefferson
1.7 - Finley
1.7 - Charlie Ward
1.5 - Eddie Jones
1.5 - James Posey
1.5 - Eric Snow
1.5 - Steve Francis
1.4 - Pierce
1.4 - Kidd
1.4 - George
1.2 - Earl Watson
1.1 - Stockton
0.9 - Bowen
0.9 - Harpring
0.7 - Artest
0.7 - Damon Stoudemire

Again, you said he was an amazing defender in the early 2000s. There's nothing amazing about those numbers.

:facepalm :facepalm

[Artillery]

:facepalm :facepalm

Truth hurts? Kobe's never been a good defender. That's a fact. I don't know why it bothers you so much. There's no shame in being a one-way player. Plenty of all-time greats were one-way players.

[Rooster]

Truth hurts? Kobe's never been a good defender. That's a fact. I don't know why it bothers you so much. There's no shame in being a one-way player. Plenty of all-time greats were one-way players.


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Yes Kobe has fooled those coaches like 300 times.:oldlol:

He even fooled Phil to switched on Melo when Ariza who has 1.9 rating can't get it done.:oldlol:

[TheMarkMadsen]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Yes Kobe has fooled those coaches like 300 times.:oldlol:

He even fooled Phil to switched on Melo when Ariza who has 1.9 rating can't get it done.:oldlol:

yeah and everybody remember D Fish being a better defender than Ron Artest in the early 2000s :roll: :roll:

[insidious301]

Also, :oldlol: at anyone arguing Kobe being good defender. He's been a bad defender his entire career(look at his career DRAPM numbers). His impact has always been on offense. He's the perfect example of a one-way player. If you want to make fun of Harden's defense, fine. But let's not pretend Kobe was ever a good defender.
This statement (or post rather) isn't backed up by factual data. We don't have definitive RAPM numbers for those years (xRAPM is basically RPM -- not pure RAPM).

One thing I can say with certainty? Watching Kobe's game tape, he was clearly an elite defender for those early 2000 Laker teams. One of the best perimeter defenders in the league, in my opinion.

[insidious301]

You said he was amazing in the early 2000s. Kobe's individual DRAPM numbers from that period:

-1.63 - 1998 Kobe
-1.82 - 1999 Kobe
-1.70 - 2000 Kobe
+0.1 - 2002 Kobe
+0.1 - 2003 Kobe
-0.6 - 2004 Kobe
-1.1 - 2005 Kobe
-1.2 - 2006 Kobe
-0.5 - 2007 Kobe

So he was terrible for almost every year. He had two years where he was an average defender for his position. Both years(2002 and 2003), he wasn't even a top 5 defensive guard or wing.

2002 guards/wings with a better DRAPM than Kobe:

1.8 - Christie
1.6 - Pierce
1.6 - Eric Snow
1.6 - John Stockton
1.5 - Charlie Ward
1.5 - George
1.3 - Richard Jefferson
1.2 - Morris Peterson
1.0 - Kidd
1.0 - Eddie Jones
1.0 - Fisher
1.0 - Kenny Anderson
0.8 - Baron Davis
0.7 - McGrady
0.6 - Artest
0.6 - Bowen
0.5 - Marion
0.4 - James Posey
0.3 - Steve Francis

2003 guards/wings with a better DRAPM than Kobe:

3.4 - Christie
1.8 - Marion
1.8 - Richard Jefferson
1.7 - Finley
1.7 - Charlie Ward
1.5 - Eddie Jones
1.5 - James Posey
1.5 - Eric Snow
1.5 - Steve Francis
1.4 - Pierce
1.4 - Kidd
1.4 - George
1.2 - Earl Watson
1.1 - Stockton
0.9 - Bowen
0.9 - Harpring
0.7 - Artest
0.7 - Damon Stoudemire

And this was just a quick copy/paste job. I didn't even include every guard or wing that was better than Kobe. That would have taken too much time going through those lists.

Again, you said he was an amazing defender in the early 2000s. There's nothing amazing about those numbers.

Once again, this isn't RAPM. You're using xRAPM, which include box score elements. Pure RAPM numbers aren't available for those seasons. Please educate yourself.

[Rooster]

yeah and everybody remember D Fish being a better defender than Ron Artest in the early 2000s :roll: :roll:

Looking at the numbers, Phil was not a smart coach:oldlol:

Why the heck Kobe has to cover Luke's man when he has 0.9 and Kobe is -0.9.:oldlol:

And why we all Lakers fans not screaming for this fact during those years.:oldlol:

[Droid101]

This shit is goddamn embarrassing.

Luke Walton a better defender than Kobe. Okay bud.

[Droid101]

Please educate yourself.
Wishful thinking for a free-rent granting trollbag.

[Artillery]

This statement (or post rather) isn't backed up by factual data. We don't have definitive RAPM numbers for those years (xRAPM is basically RPM -- not pure RAPM).

One thing I can say with certainty? Watching Kobe's game tape, he was clearly an elite defender for those early 2000 Laker teams. One of the best perimeter defenders in the league, in my opinion.

Once again, this isn't RAPM. You're using xRAPM, which include box score elements. Pure RAPM numbers aren't available for those seasons. Please educate yourself.

Low IQ remark from a uninformed poster. This is NOT xrapm. YOU need to educate yourself.

There's no play-by-play data available pre 96-97 so that's the cutoff for RAPM. Anything after that is mostly available except for 2001 data(which is why I didn't include it for Kobe's numbers)

[Artillery]

Wishful thinking for a free-rent granting trollbag.

:oldlol: so mad about Kobe being a neg defender

There's no shame in being a one-way player. Don't know why it bothers Kobe stans so much. Barkley was an all-time great and he was a crap defender.

[insidious301]

Low IQ remark from a uninformed poster. This is NOT xrapm. YOU need to educate yourself.

There's no play-by-play data available pre 96-97 so that's the cutoff for RAPM. Anything after that is mostly available except for 2001 data(which is why I didn't include it for Kobe's numbers)

:facepalm

Once again, the numbers from here (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com) are NOT RAPM. It's a variation of xRAPM (which includes box score data). The guy who runs that website (also the creator of ESPN's "RPM") removed RAPM long ago, so data from those seasons are unavailable.

Actual RAPM can be found for as early as 2007-08 here (http://www.gotbuckets.com/statistics/rapm)

Are you finished using numbers you clearly do not comprehend?

[Doranku]

:facepalm

Once again, the numbers from here (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com) are NOT RAPM. It's a variation of xRAPM (which includes box score data). The guy who runs that website (also the creator of ESPN's "RPM") removed RAPM long ago, so data from those seasons are unavailable.

Actual RAPM can be found for as early as 2007-08 here (http://www.gotbuckets.com/statistics/rapm)

Are you finished using numbers you clearly do not comprehend?

:oldlol: I guarantee you this dude does't even know how the regular RAPM is calculated. It's just some arbitrary stat created by losers who would rather stare at box score sheets instead of actually watching the game.

[Droid101]

:oldlol: so mad about Kobe being a neg defender

There's no shame in being a one-way player. Don't know why it bothers Kobe stans so much. Barkley was an all-time great and he was a crap defender.
I'm not a stan, I'm a Laker fan. I wish the dude would retire to be honest.

But to say he wasn't a good defender back in his prime is pure trolling idiocy, I don't care what your fake stat says. Go watch some games shitface.

If you keep arguing this, you're saying you believe Derek Fisher is a better defender than Ron Artest, which tells us all we need to know about how seriously to take your stupid opinions.

[Dengness9]

vs Miami
2-6
7-11
2-10
2-10
5-11
L

vs OKC
6-19
9-24
9-22
4-12
10-16
7-22
L

vs Portland
8-28
6-19
13-35
9-21
5-15
9-15
L

Total: 113/296 (38.2%) :biggums:



I understand that the MVP is a regular season award, but the postseason is what really matters obviously. If Harden has another one of these putrid performances after winning MVP, will he surpass Derrick Rose as the worst MVP of all time?


It's funny that a 22 year old dominated the league for a year and people still talk about his MVP like he did something wrong:lol


What is also hilarious is Harden is only 25! He's better than most wing players I've ever seen at that age. He has so much more left to do that these highlighted series numbers will be forgotten soon.

And why did you leave out what he did to San An in the conf finals?

[Dengness9]

I'm not a stan, I'm a Laker fan. I wish the dude would retire to be honest.

But to say he wasn't a good defender back in his prime is pure trolling idiocy, I don't care what your fake stat says. Go watch some games shitface.

If you keep arguing this, you're saying you believe Derek Fisher is a better defender than Ron Artest.


I really don't like Kobe and I hate Lebron.

That stated, anyone who says Kobe wasn't a good defender in his prime is just trolling. Kobe was an overrated defender for sure but c'mon Artillery. Be real.

[Doranku]

It's funny that a 22 year old dominated the league for a year and people still talk about his MVP like he did something wrong:lol


What is also hilarious is Harden is only 25! He's better than most wing players I've ever seen at that age. He has so much more left to do that these highlighted series numbers will be forgotten soon.

And why did you leave out what he did to San An in the conf finals?

I never said Derrick Rose did anything wrong. I'm just saying he's the worst MVP of all-time... because he is. Who would you say was a worse MVP than Rose if you disagree?

Before we talk about these numbers being forgotten, let's wait until he actually has a GOOD playoff series as the #1 option.

I left out the San Antonio series because it's the only great playoff series that he's had in his career. It is the exception, not the rule.

[Artillery]

:facepalm

Once again, the numbers from here (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com) are NOT RAPM. It's a variation of xRAPM (which includes box score data).

:facepalm: Again, low IQ post from an uninformed poster. That's not the site I'm using. Those numbers don't even match up with mine. How about actually checking the numbers before making an ass of yourself?


The guy who runs that website (also the creator of ESPN's "RPM") removed RAPM long ago, so data from those seasons are unavailable.

JE's old RAPM didn't vanish from the face of the earth. Those numbers are out there(and are the ones I'm using)


Actual RAPM can be found for as early as 2007-08 here (http://www.gotbuckets.com/statistics/rapm)

Are you finished using numbers you clearly do not comprehend?

WRONG. Play-by-play data is available going back to the 1997 season.

For example, 97-00 RAPM was done by ascreamingcomesacrossthecourt.blogspot.com. Here's their 2000 RAPM(since you obviously don't know how to find the link yourself):

http://ascreamingcomesacrossthecourt.blogspot.com/2014/03/2000-rapm-non-prior-and-prior-informed.html

This is the most damning. 2000 is cited by most to be among Kobe's best defensive seasons and he's horrible there. Only member of the two All-Defensive teams with a negative DRAPM value.

[tpols]

:oldlol: so mad about Kobe being a neg defender

There's no shame in being a one-way player. Don't know why it bothers Kobe stans so much. Barkley was an all-time great and he was a crap defender.
Something for you Duncan fans to chew on since you are looking at career long ramps

00-14 rapms (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/14y.html)

Kevin Garnett is not only graded as a better offensive player than Tim Duncan..he's significantly better graded as a team defender. So if you want to run with your Kobe never played defense narrative..you're going to have to admit KG > Duncan.

Tim Duncan offensively is also behind lamarcuss Aldridge and pau gasol offensively.. Manu having twice the offensive impact and even Tony Parker had more offensive impact. Kobe of course just blowing Duncan away offensively.

Duncan was the third best offensive player on his team.. Chris Bosh status

[Artillery]

Something for you Duncan fans to chew on since you are looking at career long ramps

00-14 rapms (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/14y.html)

Kevin Garnett is not only graded as a better offensive player than Tim Duncan..he's significantly better graded as a team defender. So if you want to run with your Kobe never played defense narrative..you're going to have to admit KG > Duncan.

Tim Duncan offensively is also behind lamarcuss Aldridge and pay gasoline offensively.. Manu having twice the offensive impact and even Tony Parker had more offensive impact. Kobe of course just blowing Duncan away offensively.

Duncan was the third best offensive player on his team.. Chris Bosh status

Nothing wrong with that, brah. Better to be the 3rd best player of his era than the 15th best like Kobe :oldlol:

[Artillery]

:oldlol: tpol's 14 yr rapm trump card backfires in his face
:oldlol: Kobe not even a top 5 player in his own era
:oldlol: Kobe not even a top 5 guard

[tpols]

Nothing wrong with that, brah. Better to be the 3rd best player of his era than the 15th best like Kobe :oldlol:
Ok I don't ever want to hear you or any other spur Stan say Duncan was better than KG again.. because the number you're using literally say it ain't close.

KG just didn't have the benefit of playing with player twice his offensive impact his whole career long.. and goat coach.

[UK2K]

It's funny that a 22 year old dominated the league for a year and people still talk about his MVP like he did something wrong:lol


What is also hilarious is Harden is only 25! He's better than most wing players I've ever seen at that age. He has so much more left to do that these highlighted series numbers will be forgotten soon.

And why did you leave out what he did to San An in the conf finals?

Yep, about three years away from his prime.

Lebron in his 6th season:

28.4 ppg, 7.2 apg, 7.6 rpg, 49/34/78

Harden in his sixth season:

27.6 ppg, 6.7 apg, 5.6 rpg, 46/39/89

Now I am not saying Harden is nearly as good as Lebron at the same age, Im just pointing out that if statistically they are that close in season 6, if Harden can continue to improve like Lebron has, we are in for a hell of a ride.

Keep in mind, in the second half of this season, Harden is averaging 29/7/5/2 on 49/42/88, so hes playing much better than he did in the first half of the season.

[insidious301]

:facepalm: Again, low IQ post from an uninformed poster. That's not the site I'm using. Those numbers don't even match up with mine. How about actually checking the numbers before making an ass of yourself?

Where are you getting your information from? Please post the website.


JE's old RAPM didn't vanish from the face of the earth. Those numbers are out there(and are the ones I'm using)

Back your statement up.


WRONG. Play-by-play data is available going back to the 1997 season.

For example, 97-00 RAPM was done by ascreamingcomesacrossthecourt.blogspot.com. Here's their 2000 RAPM(since you obviously don't know how to find the link yourself):

I never argued this. I'm talking about the only website that has "RAPM" (not actual RAPM) available for all the seasons you quoted.

Once again, please post the website and/or reference you got your numbers from.


http://ascreamingcomesacrossthecourt.blogspot.com/2014/03/2000-rapm-non-prior-and-prior-informed.html

That's a start. Now post all the seasons you originally quoted. Thanks.

[Artillery]

Ok I don't ever want to hear you or any other Kobe Stan say Kobe was better than Paul, Wade, Nash, Pierce, McGrady, and Baron Davis again.. because the number you're using literally say it ain't close.

Paul, Wade, Nash, Pierce, McGrady, and Baron Davi just didn't have the benefit of playing with a stacked team.. and goat coach.

:oldlol: tpol backfires
:oldlol: admits Kobe wasn't a top 15 player in his own era

[Droid101]

:oldlol: tpol backfires
:oldlol: admits Kobe wasn't a top 15 player in his own era
So you are starting to see how ridiculous you sound. That's good.

[Artillery]

So you are starting to see how ridiculous you sound. That's good.

Nothing ridiculous about that. I originally had Kobe as 6th best player of his era but 15th best sounds more accurate.

[tpols]

So you are starting to see how ridiculous you sound. That's good.
Exactly...

Even though the KG Duncan thing isn't that ridiculous.. KG was better than Duncan.. He never had the tools in his prime Timmy did.

[Rooster]

Nothing ridiculous about that. I originally had Kobe as 6th best player of his era but 15th best sounds more accurate.

Make us laugh, name your top 14.:oldlol:

[Droid101]

Nothing ridiculous about that. I originally had Kobe as 6th best player of his era but 15th best sounds more accurate.
You are trying to say, with a straight face, 100% seriously and in earnest, that you believe (with some phony stats to back it up), that Baron Davis is a better player than Kobe Bryant?

Is that what you are saying?






There is trolling, and then there is whatever this cluster is. How this ****brain isn't banned is beyond me.

[KungFuJoe]

I hate Harden but he's their best player by a long shot and he carries this team of misfits every single night. Houston would lose every game by thirty points without Harden.

But we'll still see what happens come playoff time.

[Artillery]

Exactly...

Even though the KG Duncan thing isn't that ridiculous.. KG was better than Duncan.. He never had the tools in his pre Timmy did.

Ok I don't ever want to hear you or any other Kobe Stan say Kobe was better than Paul, Wade, Nash, Pierce, McGrady, and Baron Davis again.. because the number you're using literally say it ain't close.

Paul, Wade, Nash, Pierce, McGrady, and Baron Davi just didn't have the benefit of playing with a stacked team.. and goat coach.

[insidious301]

+0.1 - 2002 Kobe
+0.1 - 2003 Kobe
-0.6 - 2004 Kobe
-1.1 - 2005 Kobe
-1.2 - 2006 Kobe
-0.5 - 2007 Kobe

Still waiting for a website and/or references to back these numbers up, Artillery. Please post them.

[tpols]

Ok I don't ever want to hear you or any other Kobe Stan say Kobe was better than Paul, Wade, Nash, Pierce, McGrady, and Baron Davis again.. because the number you're using literally say it ain't close.

Paul, Wade, Nash, Pierce, McGrady, and Baron Davi just didn't have the benefit of playing with a stacked team.. and goat coach.

You forgot Amir Johnson.:oldlol:

[Artillery]

Make us laugh, name your top 14.:oldlol:

Try tpol's list. He's the one that damned Kobe to that top 15 fate.

:oldlol: tpols admits Kobe's not even a top 5 guard in his own era
:oldlol: Steve Nash MVPs justified
:oldlol: Kobe stole Paul's MVP proven
:oldlol: Kobe sidekick status confirmed

[Droid101]

https://i.warosu.org/data/fa/img/0076/73/1390707365516.jpg
The saddest part though... he's not pretending.

[Rooster]

Try tpol's list. He's the one that damned Kobe to that top 15 fate.

:oldlol: tpols admits Kobe's not even a top 5 guard in his own era
:oldlol: Steve Nash MVPs justified
:oldlol: Kobe stole Paul's MVP proven
:oldlol: Kobe sidekick status confirmed

You should not carry a spare of chromosomes.:oldlol:

[insidious301]

Still waiting for a website and/or references to back these numbers up, Artillery. Please post them.
Whoops. Looks like Artillery signed off after I questioned his "sources". :oldlol:

At best they're from forums and probably variation with box score elements, ergo not actual RAPM.

[tpols]

Try tpol's list. He's the one that damned Kobe to that top 15 fate.

:oldlol: tpols admits Kobe's not even a top 5 guard in his own era
:oldlol: Steve Nash MVPs justified
:oldlol: Kobe stole Paul's MVP proven
:oldlol: Kobe sidekick status confirmed
Bruh me saying KG > Duncan isn't far fetched... they were always extremely similar players in their primes..KG is widely regards top 15 all time to Duncan's top 10.. with the only difference being lack of team accomplishments due to lack of teammate strength.

You mentioning baron Davis, tMac, pierce and Paul is silly because all of them never had close to the longevity Kobe had.. they've all played half the prime possessions Kobe has. Wade too.. if wade had a long ten year prime capable of 30/5 every year..he would be on kobes level.. easily. But he didn't. If tmac did his 2003 season for asdecade he'd have a few rings and be very comparable. But he didn't.

Duncan and KG are neck and neck in every way comparable.

Just accept it and stop making a fool of yourself.

[Artillery]

Whoops. Looks like Artillery signed off after I questioned his "sources". :oldlol:

At best they're from forums and probably variation with box score elements, ergo not actual RAPM.

Do I have to do your homework for you too? Try google you moron.

:oldlol: RAPM didn't exist before 2008.
:oldlol: wants everybody to post their sources since he can't find any of his own
:oldlol: claims any RAPM he can't find are xrapm

[Nuff Said]

What was his ts% doe?

[insidious301]

Do I have to do your homework for you too? Try google you moron.

:oldlol: RAPM didn't exist before 2008.
:oldlol: wants everybody to post their sources since he can't find any of his own
:oldlol: claims any RAPM he can't find are xrapm

Enlighten all of us and post the links.

We believe you, seriously. :oldlol:

[Droid101]

Do I have to do your homework for you too?
As the person presenting the retarded opinion that absolutely nobody agrees with (even hardcore Kobe haters like RoundMound/dubeta/JT won't chime in here), yes, the burden of proof is on you.

[Artillery]

Bruh me saying KG > Duncan isn't far fetched... they were always extremely similar players in their primes..KG is widely regards top 15 all time to Duncan's top 10.. with the only difference being lack of team accomplishments due to lack of teammate strength.

You mentioning baron Davis, tMac, pierce and Paul is silly because all of them never had close to the longevity Kobe had.. they've all played half the prime possessions Kobe has. Wade too.. if wade had a long ten year prime capable of 30/5 every year..he would be on kobes level.. easily. But he didn't. If tmac did his 2003 season for asdecade he'd have a few rings and be very comparable. But he didn't.

Duncan and KG are neck and neck in every way comparable.

Just accept it and stop making a fool of yourself.

:oldlol: Stats make no sense for Kobe - I won't use them
:oldlol: Stats make sense for Duncan so I will use them
:oldlol: Kobe stan with that selective logic

[Artillery]

As the person presenting the retarded opinion that absolutely nobody agrees with (even hardcore Kobe haters like RoundMound/dubeta/JT won't chime in here), yes, the burden of proof is on you.

Directing your anger at the wrong person, bro. Tpol's the one that exposed Kobe as the top 15 fraud. Not me.

[Droid101]

Directing your anger at the wrong person, bro. Tpol's the one that exposed Kobe as the top 15 fraud. Not me.
Wow, you really got him good there.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PNX5qYeQJi4/TvC3e5JwhmI/AAAAAAAAAOQ/YI4GOxY2Rjg/s1600/Trolls_by_Whynne.png.jpg

[insidious301]

Enlighten all of us and post the links.

We believe you, seriously. :oldlol:


Do I have to do your homework for you too?

Wait. Still no links? You didn't just post numbers without data to actually back them, right? Yikes :roll:

[Dengness9]

I never said Derrick Rose did anything wrong. I'm just saying he's the worst MVP of all-time... because he is. Who would you say was a worse MVP than Rose if you disagree?

Before we talk about these numbers being forgotten, let's wait until he actually has a GOOD playoff series as the #1 option.

I left out the San Antonio series because it's the only great playoff series that he's had in his career. It is the exception, not the rule.

Wait a second. You are gonna discredit the guy because you think it's an exception ? What about circumstances?

The Thunder might not even have a finals appearance w/ out Beard.

Last year was his first year he had another star with him in Houston. The year before was his first in Houston.

The reason OKC doesn't have a championship is because they didn't keep him. I firmly believe that.

Harden will play better this postseason.

Not every player has the luxury of being with Shaq his first however many years. Harden didn't choose to leave OKC either so.

I'm defending harden because I think you're being a little harsh even if I understand the point you are trying to make.

[tpols]

:oldlol: Stats make no sense for Kobe - I won't use them
:oldlol: Stats make sense for Duncan so I will use them
:oldlol: Kobe stan with that selective logic
You're comparing kobes numbers to guys whove played 40,000-50,000 less possessions than him.

KG has played 100 less possessions than Duncan.

You`s a fool.