Rose, least efficient game ever?

[ProfessorMurder]

13/33 fgs for 30 points. Only 21 other games exist with 33+ FGA and 30 or under points.

11 turnovers and 1 assist. Only 2 other games exist with 11/1 ratio and that is Big Z and Dwight Howard, but they both shot over 60% for over 20 points.

[navy]

W.

[imdaman99]

Still hit the game winner :lol

[J Shuttlesworth]

Making Westbrook look like Magic Johnson

[pakostevens]

well he had the assist at the end of the 4th to take the lead and eventually go to overtime and the final clutch shot to win the game in overtime so naw

[christian1923]

Still hit the game winner :lol
This

[nightprowler10]

Still hit the game winner :lol
Damn bastard made me pull my hair out all game, then goes for that shot and I just knew it was going in.

Played excellent defense though.

[RoseCity07]

Gotta be some kind of record for most turnover to assist for Rose.

[InsanityKills]

Still hit the game winner :lol
After shooting so many shots, one is bound to go in.:facepalm

[ProfessorMurder]

Still hit the game winner :lol
Would they need a game winner if he didn't chuck away the entire 4th?

[ImKobe]

Won the game :kobe:

[christian1923]

And he was +10

[ImKobe]

Would they need a game winner if he didn't chuck away the entire 4th?

He made a pass that resulted in a 2-pt lead at the end of the 4th, not his fault they didn't box Draymond Green out.

[nightprowler10]

Would they need a game winner if he didn't chuck away the entire 4th?
Yeah I don't know, the offense stagnates and depends on Rose too much with Butler out. I do wish they had given the ball Pau more often in the post though. He was killing it.

[Relinquish]

Would they need a game winner if he didn't chuck away the entire 4th?

:lebronamazed:

Don't do 'em like that.

[Young X]

Single handedly wasted ~31 possessions :biggums:

Still hit that GW tho...

[JT123]

As Kobe stans always like to say, he came through when he needed to. Doesn't matter that without him being so bad overtime wouldn't have been needed. :confusedshrug:

[Millennium X]

Only losers who've never played basketball care about efficiency over clutch play and winning.

[christian1923]

As Kobe stans always like to say, he came through when he needed to. Doesn't matter that without him being so bad overtime wouldn't have been needed. :confusedshrug:
Beat the best in the league, game winner, +10 rating.

I'll take it.

[The_Pharcyde]

Hit the game winner! you are so pissed off you made a seperate thread so everyone could see your frustration

Rose is gonna keep this guy up all night sweating
lol!!!

so inefficient!!! lol

[Fawker]

he can be 0-20. will never be on the bench. a former MVP hitting shots when it matters.

[supernova5912]

He hit the game-winner so it doesn't matter, because he literally won the game for the Bulls.

[nightprowler10]

Beat the best in the league, game winner, +10 rating.

I'll take it.
Yea it was an ass-ugly game but I'll absolutely take it.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Very inefficient, but if you hit the game winner, sealing the deal, what can you really say? Some forced turnovers, and a poor shooting night up until that point. It happens.

All in all, that was a fun game. If my Clippers get the boot, I hope these 2 meet in the finals.

[sportjames23]

Hit the game winner! you are so pissed off you made a seperate thread so everyone could see your frustration

Rose is gonna keep this guy up all night sweating
lol!!!

so inefficient!!! lol


:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Pointguard]

13/33 fgs for 30 points. Only 21 other games exist with 33+ FGA and 30 or under points.

11 turnovers and 1 assist. Only 2 other games exist with 11/1 ratio and that is Big Z and Dwight Howard, but they both shot over 60% for over 20 points.
Still was easily the best player in the game and the most important. Its a moot point. Ultimately decided the fate of the game. Took Curry's legs away as well. Rose's role is attack, keep the team off balance and wear the other team out. Chaos and pressure above efficiency. I said this before the game.

[tpols]

Bulls struggle to create on the perimeter.. Rose was chucking too much though.. I was amazed he decided to pass to Hinrich when he had a wide open ft line shot.. That was the play of the game.

[Dengness9]

Pretty rough all night but stayed with it til the bitter end. Honestly after all those TO's and misses he never shied away from the moment.

[VeeCee15]

the Warriors were playing without Bogut and were too overly confident.

Rose is terrible. He can't shoot..he can't pass..he turns the ball over.

BULLS were lucky they won.

Gasol was far better than rose this game.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8asN_VIAAAdZdR.jpg:large

[Marchesk]

Only losers who've never played basketball care about efficiency over clutch play and winning.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1831115.1402896070!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/gallery_1200/back-top-spurs-send-heat-packing-game-5.jpg

[dontgetchoked]

the Warriors were playing without Bogut and were too overly confident.

Rose is terrible. He can't shoot..he can't pass..he turns the ball over.

BULLS were lucky they won.

Gasol was far better than rose this game.

derp bulls were without our leading scorer and best defender in jimmy buckets. stfu

but if rose hadn't played like shit we would have won by 10 or more. Im not mad though, if youre going to hit the game winner you can chuck all you want.

[sportjames23]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8asN_VIAAAdZdR.jpg:large


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Kvnzhangyay]

Only losers who've never played basketball care about efficiency over clutch play and winning.

You realize that if he was efficient there would be no need for a clutch play as they would have won by a safe amount right?

[nathanjizzle]

You realize that if he was efficient there would be no need for a clutch play as they would have won by a safe amount right?

The bulls are losing if rose waits for good shots. People need to stop with this obsession with efficiency.

[HurricaneKid]

The bulls are losing if rose waits for good shots. People need to stop with this obsession with efficiency.

WTF did you just say dude?

[StephHamann]

Rose went full Kobe, including the gamewinner :pimp:

[Overdrive]

Only losers who've never played basketball care about efficiency over clutch play and winning.

Only tuned in for OT, but he could've hit teammates on few plays even there. Guy shoots 1 of 4 or 5 or so in OT and gets praise sinking that one shot? If he hits Pau twice they might've been up by 6 instead of getting a tied game before his shot.

[HurricaneKid]

It's really telling when people think a PG with a 1:11 asst:to ratio with 20 missed shots had a decent/good game because he hit a tough contested jumper with 7 sec left.

It tells me you should be on my ignore list.

[dunksby]

Only losers who've never played basketball care about efficiency over clutch play and winning.
No, you are the one who hasn't touched a ball jackass. If our PG kept chucking and ruining possessions and consequently the flow of offense I'd personally smack his head and take the ball from him. It's the NBA though so you live and die by the will of your star player.

[dunksby]

It's really telling when people think a PG with a 1:11 asst:to ratio with 20 missed shots had a decent/good game because he hit a tough contested jumper with 7 sec left.

It tells me you should be on my ignore list.
And they dare call people ignorant about basketball :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8asN_VIAAAdZdR.jpg:large

epic troll face :bowdown:

[Overdrive]

No, you are the one who hasn't touched a ball jackass. If our PG kept chucking and ruining possessions and consequently the flow of offense I'd personally smack his head and take the ball from him. It's the NBA though so you live and die by the will of your star player.

Exactly, it's so damn frustrating to play with someone like this. Players like Rose ruin others' confidence although they don't do wrong. Teammates get cold and won't work as hard if they free themselves up all the time, but don't get the ball.

The win is always nice, but personally I'm pretty salty if the main ball handler just chucks away and everyone has to work for that guy's shots but no one else gets rewarded - especially when he has such a bad fg%.

[ILLsmak]

13/33 fgs for 30 points. Only 21 other games exist with 33+ FGA and 30 or under points.

11 turnovers and 1 assist. Only 2 other games exist with 11/1 ratio and that is Big Z and Dwight Howard, but they both shot over 60% for over 20 points.

What you say after that game as you walk off the court is "wetttttt." And nobody can say shit. That's why bball is a fun sport. They call it a game winner for a reason.

-Smak

[nathanjizzle]

It's really telling when people think a PG with a 1:11 asst:to ratio with 20 missed shots had a decent/good game because he hit a tough contested jumper with 7 sec left.

It tells me you should be on my ignore list.

So youre saying he had a bad game? Do you have a tv or do you just watch the live game play by plays?

Nimrod

[atljonesbro]

Why not just have Rose play like this the rest of the year. His team by some miracle of god stayed in the game and he hit the clutch shot one time playing terribly therefore it's gonna happen every time right? Bulls fans seemed satisfied with his performance so here's to hoping he shoots 13-33 every night and has 11 turnovers :cheers:

[nathanjizzle]

Why not just have Rose play like this the rest of the year. His team by some miracle of god stayed in the game and he hit the clutch shot one time playing terribly therefore it's gonna happen every time right? Bulls fans seemed satisfied with his performance so here's to hoping he shoots 13-33 every night and has 11 turnovers :cheers:

If everygame is against an elite team and he wills them to victory when we were suppose to lose, than yes.

[atljonesbro]

If everygame is against an elite team and he wills them to victory when we were suppose to lose, than yes.
I'm not complaining. I'll be happy with 13-33 and 11 turnovers every night. Last night was a total fluke. They rarely win with Rose playing that abysmal.

[nathanjizzle]

I'm not complaining. I'll be happy with 13-33 and 11 turnovers every night. Last night was a total fluke. They rarely win with Rose playing that abysmal.

So do u think rose had a negative or positive impact. Pretty much if rose didnt play and was replaced by an average pg, would the outcome be less or more

[Kaspah]

Only losers who've never played basketball care about efficiency over clutch play and winning.

+100

Rose contained Curry as good as anyone else and he is typically a very mediocre defender, on top of that, the bulls offense last night looked like no one wanted the ball. Rose still scored 30pts. Hit the game winner.

OP is trolling or has never played basketball. Good fckin game last night.

OP is a fakkit

[Kaspah]

Exactly, it's so damn frustrating to play with someone like this. Players like Rose ruin others' confidence although they don't do wrong. Teammates get cold and won't work as hard if they free themselves up all the time, but don't get the ball.

The win is always nice, but personally I'm pretty salty if the main ball handler just chucks away and everyone has to work for that guy's shots but no one else gets rewarded - especially when he has such a bad fg%.


Their offense was turrible last night. No one wanted the ball, every time anyone got it they seemed timid and definitely not aggressive. It was a tough game. Coming in here and acting like d rose is against team ball is bs. Dude is the leader and did what needed to be done to secure a win. He has 11 turnovers and I'll say more than half were trying to pass to his teammates. He is not unwilling.

[ArbitraryWater]

Single handedly wasted ~31 possessions :biggums:

Still hit that GW tho...

Damn, that's worse than Kobe's 17-47 :biggums: :biggums:

[kurple]

W.
/thread



never got how rose got so much hate. its not his fault he won the MVP, its not his fault he got injured

seems like a really likable guy

[ArbitraryWater]

/thread



never got how rose got so much hate. its not his fault he won the MVP, its not his fault he got injured

seems like a really likable guy

Maybe because he sat out while cleared to play? Maybe because he's been really, REALLY underwhelming this year (especially for an MVP) ?

[Prometheus]

The only reason the game was even close was because the Warriors went ice cold from deep in the second half. They were getting good shots, and that could have easily been a 15 point victory. So those of you forgiving Rose's awful night on account of his clinching shot are being pretty short-sighted. Credit him for making a clutch shot - that's always a good thing. But otherwise he played like shit.

EDIT: to be fair, he actually did a good job on Curry. Again, Steph missed some shots that he would normally hit, but still - Rose isn't known as a defender and he was clearly giving a lot of effort. Makes me think he's got a healthy sense of pride, and is sick of hearing about Curry. Also makes me wonder if it has been lack of focus that has made him a mediocre defender all this time, and not lack of ability.

[Millennium X]

You realize that if he was efficient there would be no need for a clutch play as they would have won by a safe amount right?
dude vince carter sucks ass. how many times has he been on a lottery team in his career. classic case of a loser right there.

rose was playing without butler and kicked steph curry's and the warriors ass yesterday, leading his team to a WIN with CLUTCH play.

so much for steph curry's "super efficient" play. got him nothing but a L yesterday!!! :roll:

[kurple]

Maybe because he sat out while cleared to play? Maybe because he's been really, REALLY underwhelming this year (especially for an MVP) ?
thats two really, really weak reasons to hate on him

i hope you realize that everyone in this world is different, and Rose is more mentally weak than most pro-athletes when it comes to injuries. So what?

and did anyone expect anything more from rose this season? if you did, then youre the idiot

[Millennium X]

Only tuned in for OT, but he could've hit teammates on few plays even there. Guy shoots 1 of 4 or 5 or so in OT and gets praise sinking that one shot? If he hits Pau twice they might've been up by 6 instead of getting a tied game before his shot.
the game winning shot aka clutch play. stat nerds who don't understand and haven't played ball in real life worry about someone's TS% and efficiency instead of what actually WINS games.

point of the game is to win, not have the highest TS%. :lol

[Millennium X]

No, you are the one who hasn't touched a ball jackass. If our PG kept chucking and ruining possessions and consequently the flow of offense I'd personally smack his head and take the ball from him. It's the NBA though so you live and die by the will of your star player.
this dumb clown right here. :lol clearly don't know shiet about ball cus you never played before. leave it to stupid people who've never played sports to actually find fault with someone who wins the game with a clutch game-winner by pointing out irrelevant stats like efficiency.

sorry boy, WINS > STATS. deal with it.

[SpanishACB]

He hit the game-winner so it doesn't matter, because he literally won the game for the Bulls.

why do people buy into this so blindly as it was some sort of enlightment?

he won the game. so? he played like shit.

had he played anything sort to decent, it would have been a blow out.

Yes, hitting a game winner is clutch, but that doesn't stop you playing terrible for most of the game.

[Hittin_Shots]

that was the worst shooting I've seen from GSW this year in that second half and they had no one to stop inside play.. Rose gets one last second assist while having two bigs with an advantage inside.. this game shouldn't have been close with how they were shooting if rose fed pau..

[HurricaneKid]

So youre saying he had a bad game? Do you have a tv or do you just watch the live game play by plays?

Nimrod

He had a HORRIBLE game. I'm appalled people here actually think that making a single shot can change all that.

If Curry doesn't turn the ball over Rose finishes with 0 asst and 11 TOs and they lose. He becomes the first player ever to have done that. Nevermind the 20 missed shots. If Heinrich misses the 3, same thing.

If the refs get the Iggy call right Rose's shot with 7 seconds left means very little and the game goes to 2OT. Forgiving the 11 TOs vs 1 asst, the 20 missed shots, etc just because he made a shot with quite a bit of time left is insanity.

He DID play really good defense; I'm more than happy to give him credit for that. But offensively he was dreadful. And everyone else on that team was actually shooting pretty well. When Bogut is out the way to win is to pound them inside. Instead, Rose went the other way.

[Overdrive]

the game winning shot aka clutch play. stat nerds who don't understand and haven't played ball in real life worry about someone's TS% and efficiency instead of what actually WINS games.

point of the game is to win, not have the highest TS%. :lol

I've played enough ball in my life and if you're not the chucking PG who doesn't even look to pass the ball you'd know that it's frustrating if you don't get the ball on good looks, because that idiot can't stop hoisting up idiotic shots.

I'm not talking about FG%. If the shots are good looks and aren't falling - no problem, even if he only hits 35% I couldn't care less.


+100

Rose contained Curry as good as anyone else and he is typically a very mediocre defender, on top of that, the bulls offense last night looked like no one wanted the ball. Rose still scored 30pts. Hit the game winner.

OP is trolling or has never played basketball. Good fckin game last night.

OP is a fakkit


Their offense was turrible last night. No one wanted the ball, every time anyone got it they seemed timid and definitely not aggressive. It was a tough game. Coming in here and acting like d rose is against team ball is bs. Dude is the leader and did what needed to be done to secure a win. He has 11 turnovers and I'll say more than half were trying to pass to his teammates. He is not unwilling.

So didn't the teammates want the ball and he had to shoot alot or did Rose try to pass and failed?

I've seen the rerun and he played well overall if we look at both sides of the ball, but his shot selection was really poor.


He had a HORRIBLE game. I'm appalled people here actually think that making a single shot can change all that.

If Curry doesn't turn the ball over Rose finishes with 0 asst and 11 TOs and they lose. He becomes the first player ever to have done that. Nevermind the 20 missed shots. If Heinrich misses the 3, same thing.

If that moronic O-foul on Mirotic isn't given Pau hits a 3. If Curry hits that open three at the end he puts the game out of reach. If the Warriors had scored 350 points they surely would've won.


If the refs get the Iggy call right Rose's shot with 7 seconds left means very little and the game goes to 2OT. Forgiving the 11 TOs vs 1 asst, the 20 missed shots, etc just because he made a shot with quite a bit of time left is insanity.

He DID play really good defense; I'm more than happy to give him credit for that. But offensively he was dreadful. And everyone else on that team was actually shooting pretty well. When Bogut is out the way to win is to pound them inside. Instead, Rose went the other way.

Iggy was fouled on a fake and then took step away from the basket before he started a shooting motion. Refs got that right.

[themurph]

Maybe because he sat out while cleared to play? Maybe because he's been really, REALLY underwhelming this year (especially for an MVP) ?


I love sports fans....Judging a professional athletes comeback from horrific injury....Here's some advice. The next time you find yourself coming back from two seemingly career-ending knee injuries and you miss two years of your career then I will see how you react to getting back on the court....

Idiot posting....Straight up....

There are some really insightful posters on this board...But I'm really convinced that most of the heads here are reactionary 13 year olds who still have posters of their favorite player on their wall....

[nathanjizzle]

the last time the bulls played golden state

pau was 10-19 20 rebounds 20 points
butler was 8-17 24 points

rose was 2-11, 6 assists 9 points.

they got beat by double digits.

[The_Pharcyde]

Haha who cares what anyone says, Rose had a good game... These bums didn't even watch... Whenever Rose came in the Bulls went on a run... He was constantly attacking and breaking down the defense, forcing them to collapse... Yeah he missed 20 shots and had 11 dumb TO's like that bad charge call and stepping out of bounds and losing his handle... But he didn't lose confidence and kept attacking and forcing the Warriors to be on their heels

They nearly blew this one open at the start but Rose was hitting 3's to counter them Or how about at the start of the 4th where thibs was forced to put back in d rose with 10 min left because the lead was swelling to 8 and brooks couldn't handle the back court

These guys are just mad Rose showed resiliency, the game winning shot was good but not the only reason why rose played good..
It's always the same cast hating on Rose so who cares what they say.. They have something personal with a man who doesn't know their existence, let them be mad, it's unhealthy for them lol

I love the guy who says he would personally smack his point guard for playing like that, like bro shut the hell up, you are simply a username on a 2nd tier sports forum, who gives a **** what you would do basketball wise, lol, like you know shit hence why you have to put your opinion here

[dunksby]

this dumb clown right here. :lol clearly don't know shiet about ball cus you never played before. leave it to stupid people who've never played sports to actually find fault with someone who wins the game with a clutch game-winner by pointing out irrelevant stats like efficiency.

sorry boy, WINS > STATS. deal with it.
Keep pretending you know jack shit about ball, your fat ass never played organized ball, best case scenario you are that ass douche in the park who hogs the ball and keeps shouting "swishhhh" before each air ball.

[funnystuff]

Give up nathan, the fact that you implied that he didn't have a bad game is hilarious.

[Millennium X]

Keep pretending you know jack shit about ball, your fat ass never played organized ball, best case scenario you are that ass douche in the park who hogs the ball and keeps shouting "swishhhh" before each air ball.
you don't know shiet about ball you queer lmao. :oldlol: you're the type of stat nerd loser like hollinger who pretends to know about sports because you furiously punch numbers into your calculator to come up with formulas for stats like "per" and "ts%".

stick to math class stat boi. you clearly don't know anything about basketball.

[themurph]

Haha who cares what anyone says, Rose had a good game... These bums didn't even watch... Whenever Rose came in the Bulls went on a run... He was constantly attacking and breaking down the defense, forcing them to collapse... Yeah he missed 20 shots and had 11 dumb TO's like that bad charge call and stepping out of bounds and losing his handle... But he didn't lose confidence and kept attacking and forcing the Warriors to be on their heels

They nearly blew this one open at the start but Rose was hitting 3's to counter them Or how about at the start of the 4th where thibs was forced to put back in d rose with 10 min left because the lead was swelling to 8 and brooks couldn't handle the back court

These guys are just mad Rose showed resiliency, the game winning shot was good but not the only reason why rose played good..
It's always the same cast hating on Rose so who cares what they say.. They have something personal with a man who doesn't know their existence, let them be mad, it's unhealthy for them lol

I love the guy who says he would personally smack his point guard for playing like that, like bro shut the hell up, you are simply a username on a 2nd tier sports forum, who gives a **** what you would do basketball wise, lol, like you know shit hence why you have to put your opinion here


^^^^^^^^This....

I agree....It really amazes me that folks are trying to shit on Rose's performance....

It's as if they didn't see him playing gutter defense against Curry. That's why his shot was flat in the second half. He was defending his ass off busting through screens all game...

Rose came up with the clutch steal and passed it to the open man knocked down that much needed 3...The same open man (Kirk H.) who was pretty much useless all night....

That was a very gutsy performance for Rose. His first 40 min game in 2 years...

Intelligent basketball fans understand this...

[dunksby]

you don't know shiet about ball you queer lmao. :oldlol: you're the type of stat nerd loser like hollinger who pretends to know about sports because you furiously punch numbers into your calculator to come up with formulas for stats like "per" and "ts%".

stick to math class stat boi. you clearly don't know anything about basketball.
I didn't bring any stats up, I brought up real life situations and your insecure socially retarded ass flipped out cause you can't relate. By all means continue to make shit up and embarrass yourself even more :roll:
PS: What you got against math btw? Uneducated and socially disabled? :biggums:

[sportjames23]

Some mad muh****as up in this piece. :oldlol:

[Pointguard]

The only reason the game was even close was because the Warriors went ice cold from deep in the second half. They were getting good shots, and that could have easily been a 15 point victory.So those of you forgiving Rose's awful night on account of his clinching shot are being pretty short-sighted. Credit him for making a clutch shot - that's always a good thing. But otherwise he played like shit.
As Pharcyde said above, Rose, played the game much smarter than you can comprehend. GS came out super hot, and it would have intimidated most teams. You are crazy if you think that hot three point shooting was going to continue. Rose countered the strong onslaught. So they stayed in the game because of him. He set the tone, and the aggression that his team played with - despite a lot of players not really wanting to shoot on the team.



EDIT: to be fair, he actually did a good job on Curry. Again, Steph missed some shots that he would normally hit, but still - Rose isn't known as a defender and he was clearly giving a lot of effort. Makes me think he's got a healthy sense of pride, and is sick of hearing about Curry. Also makes me wonder if it has been lack of focus that has made him a mediocre defender all this time, and not lack of ability.
In 2011 name me the elite PG that had a big game against him? All of them had really bad games. Who do you think was stopping Wade in the fourth quarters of the ECF that year? All of this makes me think you don't know what you are talking about. You just want to believe these things above enjoying watching him play because you are just a hater. And its proof that you don't even read the threads here either.

[atljonesbro]

This type of performance by your PG will probably win you 1 in every 4 game. He had an absolutely terrible game. Bulls fans want him to shoot 33 shots a night on 39%, get 1 assist, and turn the ball over 11 times EVERY NIGHT because he has one flukey game where the other team played terrible. The terrible excuse of a performance by Rose wont win you game consistently.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Rose could go 0/20 with 25 TO's and his fans on here would still claim his defense and leadership were MVP worthy :facepalm

[Dengness9]

the Warriors were playing without Bogut and were too overly confident.

Rose is terrible. He can't shoot..he can't pass..he turns the ball over.

BULLS were lucky they won.

Gasol was far better than rose this game.


Bulls were without Butler and Dunleavy and David Lee had his best game of the year thus far.

Don't be so salty, Bulls earned that one coming back from 11 down.

Gasol should have been getting the ball a lot more for sure, for the Bulls as a team kept giving it back to Derrick especially without Jimmy.

[Hey Yo]

Still was easily the best player in the game and the most important. Its a moot point. Ultimately decided the fate of the game. Took Curry's legs away as well. Rose's role is attack, keep the team off balance and wear the other team out. Chaos and pressure above efficiency. I said this before the game.
Bill Simmons ‏@BillSimmons 12 minutes ago

Derrick Rose last night: 33 FGA, 11 turnovers, 1 assist and 0 FTA. That's basically everything you don't want from your point guard.

[Pointguard]

Bill Simmons ‏@BillSimmons 12 minutes ago
Bill Simmons rarely speaks without an agenda. His game analysis was never respected - I hope you know that. I admit Rose played a sloopy game. But please embarrass yourself or tell me who Bill Simmons has as the main player in that game? Who care about his analysis, the game is played in a context above stats. I said this before the game, Rose role is chaos and pressure, its not about efficiency.

[Hey Yo]

Bill Simmons rarely speaks without an agenda. His game analysis was never respected - I hope you know that. I admit Rose played a sloopy game. But please embarrass yourself or tell me who Bill Simmons has as the main player in that game? Who care about his analysis, the game is played in a context above stats. I said this before the game, Rose role is chaos and pressure, its not about efficiency.
I have no idea who he thinks the main player of the game was. All I did was paste his tweet.

But in reality, whatever the outcome or whoever the PG is, you don't want to see those numbers from him.

I didn't see the game, but knowing Rose's game I can't believe he didn't get to the foul line once considering 33fga in 43min.

[Pointguard]

Why not just have Rose play like this the rest of the year. His team by some miracle of god stayed in the game and he hit the clutch shot one time playing terribly therefore it's gonna happen every time right? Bulls fans seemed satisfied with his performance so here's to hoping he shoots 13-33 every night and has 11 turnovers :cheers:
He played a game that won the game, the rest is hater commentary. And yes, we will take that every time.

[Pointguard]

I have no idea who he thinks the main player of the game was. All I did was paste his tweet.

But in reality, whatever the outcome or whoever the PG is, you don't want to see those numbers from him.

I didn't see the game, but knowing Rose's game I can't believe he didn't get to the foul line once considering 33fga in 43min.
If you seen the game he played the game right, sobeit, sloppy as hell, but they don't win with him playing conservative like the rest of the team or shying away from keeping the attack controlled. Chicago ran with GS for three quarters! They were losing the whole time. I don't think they took the lead until 3 or 4 minutes left in regulation.

I could have sworn I saw him at the line??? But if I'm wrong it is crazy cause he was going at them.

[kshutts1]

Whether or not Rose's game is chaos, whether or not efficiency matters for him, fact is... it was a very inefficient game.
Bulls obviously won, and Rose had a hand in that, but I can't say that Rose had a good game. Doesn't mean he had a bad game, much less historically bad, but it certainly was not a good game.

[ArbitraryWater]

thats two really, really weak reasons to hate on him

i hope you realize that everyone in this world is different, and Rose is more mentally weak than most pro-athletes when it comes to injuries. So what?

and did anyone expect anything more from rose this season? if you did, then youre the idiot

:biggums:

--

As for this game, Rose played like shit.. if he would have just been a bit more efficient, Bulls win in regulation. Warriors had one of their worser games. Hey, at least he hit the GW to make up for it.

[insidious301]

Had he made at least half of his shots, and cut down on his turnovers, the Bulls wouldn't have needed the OT and desperation shot from him to squeak out a win. Having said that... I thought Rose showed a lot of courage last night. Early in the game, he seemed to be trialing Curry and being eaten up. Curry had his usual swag. Derrick was knocked to the ground. He came up limping. He could have quit. But something inside of him made him determined to beat Curry, and the Warriors.

Noah is his boy and he encouraged him. From there on out, he attacked and attacked, muddying up the game, putting pressure on the Warriors defense. There was no way, he was going to lose to Curry. He wanted to send the message that he's still elite and is going to get better as the season goes on.

[themurph]

Rose could go 0/20 with 25 TO's and his fans on here would still claim his defense and leadership were MVP worthy :facepalm


I don't think Chris Webber or Steve Smith r super "fans" of Rose. But even they understood Rose's impact on that game beyond Rose's TO's and shooting percentage....

As they noted after the game, Rose basically kept his team in it the entire 4 Q's, but more importantly raised the level of his defense against the arguably the best PG in the league right now in Curry...

I get it....This place is basically a agenda-fueled with teenagers who root more for their favorite player than teams....But it is perfectly OK to say that Rose had a off and on game, but was the main reason his team won even as his teammates turned down shots and clanked wide open assists (Rose would have easily had 7 assists that night if Snell and Kirk H. hit their open jumpers)...It happens all the time for MVP type talents....You scratch and claw, but manage to come out with a win....This isn't a video game....Shit happens....

The true measure of a player is how they react when things are not going all together well for them....

That was a gutsy performance for someone who played their first 40 plus minutes in a game in two years.....

Just saying....

[vinsanity2756]

13/33 fgs for 30 points. Only 21 other games exist with 33+ FGA and 30 or under points.

11 turnovers and 1 assist. Only 2 other games exist with 11/1 ratio and that is Big Z and Dwight Howard, but they both shot over 60% for over 20 points.
So ... did he turn the ball over in the final moments of the game? no, did he take too many 3's? probably yes. Did he hit the game winner? yes, say no more, the W is all that matters.

[hawksdogsbraves]

I don't think Chris Webber or Steve Smith r super "fans" of Rose. But even they understood Rose's impact on that game beyond Rose's TO's and shooting percentage....

As they noted after the game, Rose basically kept his team in it the entire 4 Q's, but more importantly raised the level of his defense against the arguably the best PG in the league right now in Curry...

I get it....This place is basically a agenda-fueled with teenagers who root more for their favorite player than teams....But it is perfectly OK to say that Rose had a off and on game, but was the main reason his team won even as his teammates turned down shots and clanked wide open assists (Rose would have easily had 7 assists that night if Snell and Kirk H. hit their open jumpers)...It happens all the time for MVP type talents....You scratch and claw, but manage to come out with a win....This isn't a video game....Shit happens....

The true measure of a player is how they react when things are not going all together well for them....

That was a gutsy performance for someone who played their first 40 plus minutes in a game in two years.....

Just saying....

This is some Coach Carter type shit right here :oldlol:

The true measure of a player isn't how they react when things are not going well. The true measure of a player can not be judged by one last second shot, or by one regular season game. Hell it can't even be judged by one playoff series or even a whole single season.

I've agreed with Rose fans all year that he's still working his way back into shape. What he does in December and January doesn't matter much if he's in shape come May.

But to be honest, he's been downright mediocre all season and he was downright bad last night. One jumper in OT doesn't change that.

[Genaro]

Rose had a shitty game. He kept jacking from 3 even thought he was missing everything, he turned the ball over so many times and he even air balled a layup.
What won the Bulls the game was defense and rebounding(and a terrible mistake by Curry, WTF was he thinking?), Rose shot so much that eventually one of them fell and it happened to be the game winner.

[Millennium X]

I didn't bring any stats up, I brought up real life situations and your insecure socially retarded ass flipped out cause you can't relate. By all means continue to make shit up and embarrass yourself even more :roll:
PS: What you got against math btw? Uneducated and socially disabled? :biggums:
retarded mothaf*cka giving up now. what real life situations could your fat unathletic ass who's never played ball in his life possibly bring up???? :lol

clutch play and wins > efficiency. unless you can refute that statement right there, just stfu and get out of this thread.

rose won the game, anyone who isn't a blind fool can see that.

[KungFuJoe]

To ANYONE who says, "We won, I'll take it", you're an imbecile.

That kind of play will LOSE 9 out of 10 times.

[BlazerRed]

Would they need a game winner if he didn't chuck away the entire 4th?
:bowdown:

[RRR3]

To ANYONE who says, "We won, I'll take it", you're an imbecile.

That kind of play will LOSE 9 out of 10 times.
:applause:

However, if I was a Bulls fan I'd be happy with the win regardless.

[Magic 32]

13/33 fgs for 30 points. Only 21 other games exist with 33+ FGA and 30 or under points.

11 turnovers and 1 assist. Only 2 other games exist with 11/1 ratio and that is Big Z and Dwight Howard, but they both shot over 60% for over 20 points.

Lebron - Game 1 vs Celtics (2008)

2-18 from field

10 TO's

And unlike Rose, Lebron bricked a game tying layup.

Cavs 72 Celtics 76

[tpols]

all tthis hate for Rose shooting 39%... Curry shot 39% too!

Curry turned the ball over and gave all the momentum to Chicago in the clutch. Sure Rose dribbled the ball off his feet a few times, but when it came to crunch time, he got the game winning steal, assist, and shot.

Curry had more assists but it's much easier to rack up dimes when you have klay Thompson starting the game 6/6, instead of Kirk Hinrich and Tony snell.

[insidious301]

all tthis hate for Rose shooting 39%... Curry shot 39% too!

Curry turned the ball over and gave all the momentum to Chicago in the clutch. Sure Rose dribbled the ball off his feet a few times, but when it came to crunch time, he got the game winning steal, assist, and shot.

Curry had more assists but it's much easier to rack up dimes when you have klay Thompson starting the game 6/6, instead of Kirk Hinrich and Tony snell.

Curry didn't have 11 turnovers and 1 assist; Curry also didn't shoot 33 times to get 30 points.

Rose hit the game winner, which is great. Like I stated earlier, he continued shooting and put pressure on the Warriors defense with his penetration -- but the criticism for his play up until that point isn't exactly unwarranted.

[tpols]

Curry didn't have 11 turnovers and 1 assist; Curry also didn't shoot 33 times to get 30 points.

Rose hit the game winner, which is great. Like I stated earlier, continued shooting, putting pressure on the Warriors defense -- but the criticism isn't exactly unwarranted.
Didn't curry have less points than shots as well? He was 9/23..

And I agree.. Rose started the game 4/5 from three and then bricked like 0/5 in the second half. He kept chucking them when he shouldn't have.. He uses his legs to shoot too much and you could tell the shots weren't even close.. Just straight bricks. That was my biggest criticism

[Dengness9]

This is some Coach Carter type shit right here :oldlol:

The true measure of a player isn't how they react when things are not going well. The true measure of a player can not be judged by one last second shot, or by one regular season game. Hell it can't even be judged by one playoff series or even a whole single season.

I've agreed with Rose fans all year that he's still working his way back into shape. What he does in December and January doesn't matter much if he's in shape come May.

But to be honest, he's been downright mediocre all season and he was downright bad last night. One jumper in OT doesn't change that.

I hollered all night in front of my friends about the turnovers. It was pathetic. The missed shots weren't good but it should be noted without Jimmy, the Bulls as a team looked to put the ball in Derricks hand all game long.

Rose's responsibilities last night far outweighed what Steph had to do. Steph, love him to death, has an all star/budding superstar next to him, not to mention Curry not once in that game had to worry about a taller and skilled defender like Butler coming to guard him like Rose dealt with w/ Klay switching on him throughout the game especially 2nd half.


And it's not Coach Carter shit, you're better than that for real man. The fact that he to'd it and missed that many times but didn't shy away when his team needed him the most??? It proves he didn't let go of the rope, and never gave up. We all know how hard it is when you're playing and your miss 5-10 shots but you have to forget about and keep 100% confidence.

P.S.

There's a whole lot of "IF'S" in this thread about things that were close to happening but didn't .

Close only count in horseshoes, hand grenades, and atomic warfare.

[Pointguard]

Whether or not Rose's game is chaos, whether or not efficiency matters for him, fact is... it was a very inefficient game.
Bulls obviously won, and Rose had a hand in that, but I can't say that Rose had a good game. Doesn't mean he had a bad game, much less historically bad, but it certainly was not a good game.
A very inefficient game means what in the end? If a team wins a ring and it was inefficient do they have to give it back? Lebron had one of the most efficient finals ever last year and didn't have an answer for anything SA did. In fact a much less efficient Leonard won the FMVP. You caring about efficiency means next to nothing in the bigger scheme of things.

[Fire Colangelo]

I know he took like 10+ threes, but zero free throws?

I didn't watch the whole game, but was there really no fouls on Rose?

[TheMarkMadsen]

And he was +10

shouldn't this end the discussion? I thought +/- was the end all be all?

[Pointguard]

Curry didn't have 11 turnovers and 1 assist; Curry also didn't shoot 33 times to get 30 points.

Rose hit the game winner, which is great. Like I stated earlier, he continued shooting and put pressure on the Warriors defense with his penetration -- but the criticism for his play up until that point isn't exactly unwarranted.
They weren't looking for Curry at the end of the game - Rose created that situation. The other team was looking for Rose, and he delivered from that situation. It wasn't graceful, but it was the tale of the tape at the end.

[Pointguard]

To ANYONE who says, "We won, I'll take it", you're an imbecile.

That kind of play will LOSE 9 out of 10 times.
He's never played like that before, and games never duplicate themselves so your point doesn't mean much. The Bulls beat the best team playing when they came out blazing on their homecourt, and the Bulls weren't on their game. You would have to be a complete imbecile not to take it.

[Relinquish]

Lebron - Game 1 vs Celtics (2008)

2-18 from field

10 TO's

And unlike Rose, Lebron bricked a game tying layup.

Cavs 72 Celtics 76

Have to go with Rose. Definitely the least efficient game ever played.

[Droid101]

Have to go with Rose. Definitely the least efficient game ever played.
Typical from a bran fan I guess. Rather have an "efficient" game with the loss, then to shoot poorly but get the win.

[Euroleague]

It is more and more obvious that the Bulls management and coach are mentally retarded.

Keeping this clown on their team for so long.......there is simply no other explanation for it.

[Dengness9]

It is more and more obvious that the Bulls management and coach are mentally retarded.

Keeping this clown on their team for so long.......there is simply no other explanation for it.


You see Niko in the 4th hit a 3 then got fouled on the 3 and hit em all when the game was slipping?

[Millennium X]

best thing bulls did was avoid signing melo in the off-season. what a disaster it would have been signing that overpaid chucker. admittedly i actually wanted him (for some crazy reason) but glad it worked out for the best. melo can enjoy his hundred millions on the worst team in the league.

[Euroleague]

You see Niko in the 4th hit a 3 then got fouled on the 3 and hit em all when the game was slipping?

He is exactly what I said he was. I am 100% RIGHT on everything about him. What is your point?

[BigMacAttack]

A very inefficient game means what in the end? If a team wins a ring and it was inefficient do they have to give it back? Lebron had one of the most efficient finals ever last year and didn't have an answer for anything SA did. In fact a much less efficient Leonard won the FMVP. You caring about efficiency means next to nothing in the bigger scheme of things.


:applause: :applause:

You da real mvp.

[tamaraw08]

OMG,
read the title of the post,
Rose, lease efficient game ever?- as in a question.:pimp:
Is it?:confusedshrug:
ofcourse, unlesss there was another game that he post worst numbers.

Rose worshippers:, well, he hit the game winner so he is THE REASON THEY WON. :facepalm
nothing to do with Pau and Noah combining for 32 rebounds and 36 points?
Or the entire Warriors missing 12 straight 3 pointers?
Rose haters: well, the guy is a mess blah blah blah.
Infairness, most posters got it right, bad stats, but Rose provided very good defense on Curry, nailed a clutch jumper, scored points, mind you spotted Kirk for a 3pt shot etc.

[tontoz]

It is more and more obvious that the Bulls management and coach are mentally retarded.

Keeping this clown on their team for so long.......there is simply no other explanation for it.


If you are talking about Hinrich then i would agree. I think most Bulls fans would too.

[Kblaze8855]

People really get off on the word "ever". Guys have had 3-30+ games. Plenty of 7-28s and so on. But when people say "ever" they generally mean...what they can find on basketball reference I suppose.

Drop 30...win on a game winner...the rest is pretty "meh". Always has been. Nobody has ever read a "____ had 35 and the game winner" story that went on to talk about how awful it was.

Wasnt a good game. Overall poor turnovers considered.

Nothing to talk "of aaaaaaaaaaaaalll time" about.

[gilalizard]

There's sometimes a problem when people complain about inefficiency:

You are assuming that if someone else had taken the missed shot, they would of made it.

It's more about how the team is playing. Is the chucker shouldering the burden of an overall inefficient night/team? Or is he just being a shameless ball hog?

As has been pointed out, LeBron has generally good efficiency, but generally weak results when it matters most.

[DMAVS41]

There is no way that is the least efficient game ever. Just no way.

Doesn't surprise me thought that the standard Rose fans are in here propping a terrible game like that though.

Just proves that no matter how shitty Rose plays...his fans can't admit when he plays poorly.

They really do make Kobe stans look good.

[knicksman]

A very inefficient game means what in the end? If a team wins a ring and it was inefficient do they have to give it back? Lebron had one of the most efficient finals ever last year and didn't have an answer for anything SA did. In fact a much less efficient Leonard won the FMVP. You caring about efficiency means next to nothing in the bigger scheme of things.

How many rings does rose have tho? LOL thats why jordan is the GOAT because hes efficient. Thats why shaq won rings because hes efficient.

[ProfessorMurder]

People really get off on the word "ever". Guys have had 3-30+ games. Plenty of 7-28s and so on. But when people say "ever" they generally mean...what they can find on basketball reference I suppose.

Drop 30...win on a game winner...the rest is pretty "meh". Always has been. Nobody has ever read a "____ had 35 and the game winner" story that went on to talk about how awful it was.

Wasnt a good game. Overall poor turnovers considered.

Nothing to talk "of aaaaaaaaaaaaalll time" about.
Combine that horrible shooting with the horrible ast:to and it's a legitimate question. Only 2 guys ever had 11 tos and 1 or less assists and they are 7 footers that aren't amazing passers. So bottom 3 in ast to to and bricking 20 shots is insane.

Give me some specific less efficient games.

[Odinn]

Among 30+ points games, it's right up there IMO. 33 attempts without earning to the stripe even once, 1 ast / 11 to.

I can't understand why would you stand against the "ever" argument. How many games have you seen 30 points on 33 shots while there are also 11 turnovers?

http://bkref.com/tiny/q2dQk
http://bkref.com/tiny/WNRyw

---

Sure there are worse games as for efficiency but their scoring levels can't be compared.

[Euroleague]

If you are talking about Hinrich then i would agree. I think most Bulls fans would too.

I am talking about Rose. But the same point also stands for Hinrich.

[Pointguard]

There is no way that is the least efficient game ever. Just no way.

Doesn't surprise me thought that the standard Rose fans are in here propping a terrible game like that though.

Just proves that no matter how shitty Rose plays...his fans can't admit when he plays poorly.

They really do make Kobe stans look good.
But you have to admit that it is kind of funny how people can bring up leadership, stepping up, will power, flipping leads in the 4th quarter and determination are factors that can change a game above things like efficiency, and then it pops up with such great clarity in a game like this.

[Kblaze8855]

Combine that horrible shooting with the horrible ast:to and it's a legitimate question. Only 2 guys ever had 11 tos and 1 or less assists and they are 7 footers that aren't amazing passers. So bottom 3 in ast to to and bricking 20 shots is insane.

Give me some specific less efficient games.

When you define it as needed to frame the question why bother? There have been much worse shooting games. Thats the only side of it where efficiency comes into play. Assist to turnover ratio?

If Kirk makes an additional jumper Rose creates...Rose didnt have a more "efficient" game. He just got an assist. Once dude decides hes been given a makeable shot the play being wasted or not is for the most part out of the hands of who passed it to him. But shot goes in...Rose was more efficient? Nah. How does one judge a possession as being used by you...because you shot it or fouled or whatever happened? If Magic Johnson gets an outlet goes coast to coast...drops it off to Scott who sees Cooper trailing for the dunk...Magic did nothing that can be recorded.

Does that play not go into the efficient side of his night or must he get the assist or take the shot to have credit? Of course...he did something. Made good use of the possession...but we arent counting it.

I can see how one simply and accurately judges the facts of shooting efficiency. The facts leave out the important part...the why...but they still remain to be measured.

So many factors go into if your team made good use of the possessions with you in the game though...you would never be able to just look at assist to turnover ratio. Neither of the two things happen in a vacuum. Dudes make shots the passer made harder on them than it had to be...and guys miss open shots. Rose is guilty of setting people up for harder than usual shots...and of having people miss good looks.

Too much is going on to boil it down to ratio.

All of which ignores that you are missing 40 years of game logs and there were no turnover records till...78?

Its a situation where "ever" is used to add weight to a statement...while also invalidating the statement...which is usually what the word "ever" does in basketball discussion.

Plenty have shot worse. Some while racking up a gang of turnovers, few assists, and losing. Like Lebron....you shoot 28%...7-25..have 10 turnovers and 2 assists? Im gonna what...say the worse shooting makes up for the one fewer turnover? Of a game I...just kinda remember?

Its a really odd stat line. There are many really odd stat lines....8-30s..few turnovers...5-29s....Bernard King going 3-18(17%) with 10 turnovers and only 14 points. But how many did Ewing block? How many were shots you expect him to take that someone blocked? Is he wasting a play by taking a shot his offense is built around him taking even if contested? Or...how many were bad calls on a charge? Missed tip ins that count as a FGA but arent really "using" a play?

When you frame it the way you want at the moment and disregard the details...and that most of history lacks the full records we have...the word "ever" just feels hollow to me.

As I said...Rose had a really unusual stat line in a win he played a significant role in.

There is no fair way to compare it to a 11-38 game from Pistol Pete in 1977 that we dont really know shit about.

Rick Barry im sure has some wild statlines. He went 15/43 vs the 76ers in the finals. 10-28 with one assist the next night. He took 48 shots and 19 free throws for 55 points in game 3. Legend has it he had 59 touches and only 11 passes in game 4. Took 37 shots and 8 fts for 36 points in game 5. 38 shots and 13FTs for 44 points in losing game 6. Thats one series.

Lot of head scratching stat lines out there if you care to look. Too many to put an "ever" on last night for me.

Ever is hard.

Its was an off game with some very high ups and very low downs.

Mountain range night. Peaks and valleys.

[hawksdogsbraves]

When you define it as needed to frame the question why bother? There have been much worse shooting games. Thats the only side of it where efficiency comes into play. Assist to turnover ratio?

If Kirk makes an additional jumper Rose creates...Rose didnt have a more "efficient" game. He just got an assist. Once dude decides hes been given a makeable shot the play being wasted or not is for the most part out of the hands of who passed it to him. But shot goes in...Rose was more efficient? Nah. How does one judge a possession as being used by you...because you shot it or fouled or whatever happened? If Magic Johnson gets an outlet goes coast to coast...drops it off to Scott who sees Cooper trailing for the dunk...Magic did nothing that can be recorded.

Does that play not go into the efficient side of his night or must he get the assist or take the shot to have credit? Of course...he did something. Made good use of the possession...but we arent counting it.

I can see how one simply and accurately judges the facts of shooting efficiency. The facts leave out the important part...the why...but they still remain to be measured.

So many factors go into if your team made good use of the possessions with you in the game though...you would never be able to just look at assist to turnover ratio. Neither of the two things happen in a vacuum. Dudes make shots the passer made harder on them than it had to be...and guys miss open shots. Rose is guilty of setting people up for harder than usual shots...and of having people miss good looks.

Too much is going on to boil it down to ratio.

All of which ignores that you are missing 40 years of game logs and there were no turnover records till...78?

Its a situation where "ever" is used to add weight to a statement...while also invalidating the statement...which is usually what the word "ever" does in basketball discussion.

Plenty have shot worse. Some while racking up a gang of turnovers, few assists, and losing. Like Lebron....you shoot 28%...7-25..have 10 turnovers and 2 assists? Im gonna what...say the worse shooting makes up for the one fewer turnover? Of a game I...just kinda remember?

Its a really odd stat line. There are many really odd stat lines....8-30s..few turnovers...5-29s....Bernard King going 3-18(17%) with 10 turnovers and only 14 points. But how many did Ewing block? How many were shots you expect him to take that someone blocked? Or...how many were bad calls on a charge? Missed tip ins that count as a FGA but arent really "using" a play?

When you frame it the way you want at the moment and disregard the details...and that most of history lacks the full records we have...the word "ever" just feels hollow to me.

As I said...Rose had a really unusual stat line in a win he played a significant role in.

There is no fair way to compare it to a 11-38 game from Pistol Pete in 1977 that we dont really know shit about.

Rick Barry im sure has some wild statlines. He went 15/43 vs the 76ers in the finals. 10-28 with one assist the next night. He took 48 shots and 19 free throws for 55 points in game 3. Legend has it he had 59 touches and only 11 passes in game 4. Took 37 shots and 8 fts for 36 points in game 5. 38 shots and 13FTs for 44 points in losing game 6.

Lot of head scratching stat lines out there if you care to look. Too many to put an "ever" on last night for me.

Ever is hard.

This has got to be one of the most verbose, loquacious posts I've EVER seen on ISH :applause: :applause:

Even by KBlaze standards :applause:

Just so, so many words for such a simple point :cheers:

[red1]

only stat that matters for the game: 1-0

[Kblaze8855]

Ive rarely been able to half explain what I mean. I do so hate to be misunderstood and have to clarify.

[KembaWalker]

http://i.groupme.com/1080x1080.png.6d92b876421f47e7b8ca64816d7fcffb

WET.

[Mr. Jabbar]

When you define it as needed to frame the question why bother? There have been much worse shooting games. Thats the only side of it where efficiency comes into play. Assist to turnover ratio?

If Kirk makes an additional jumper Rose creates...Rose didnt have a more "efficient" game. He just got an assist. Once dude decides hes been given a makeable shot the play being wasted or not is for the most part out of the hands of who passed it to him. But shot goes in...Rose was more efficient? Nah. How does one judge a possession as being used by you...because you shot it or fouled or whatever happened? If Magic Johnson gets an outlet goes coast to coast...drops it off to Scott who sees Cooper trailing for the dunk...Magic did nothing that can be recorded.

Does that play not go into the efficient side of his night or must he get the assist or take the shot to have credit? Of course...he did something. Made good use of the possession...but we arent counting it.

I can see how one simply and accurately judges the facts of shooting efficiency. The facts leave out the important part...the why...but they still remain to be measured.

So many factors go into if your team made good use of the possessions with you in the game though...you would never be able to just look at assist to turnover ratio. Neither of the two things happen in a vacuum. Dudes make shots the passer made harder on them than it had to be...and guys miss open shots. Rose is guilty of setting people up for harder than usual shots...and of having people miss good looks.

Too much is going on to boil it down to ratio.

All of which ignores that you are missing 40 years of game logs and there were no turnover records till...78?

Its a situation where "ever" is used to add weight to a statement...while also invalidating the statement...which is usually what the word "ever" does in basketball discussion.

Plenty have shot worse. Some while racking up a gang of turnovers, few assists, and losing. Like Lebron....you shoot 28%...7-25..have 10 turnovers and 2 assists? Im gonna what...say the worse shooting makes up for the one fewer turnover? Of a game I...just kinda remember?

Its a really odd stat line. There are many really odd stat lines....8-30s..few turnovers...5-29s....Bernard King going 3-18(17%) with 10 turnovers and only 14 points. But how many did Ewing block? How many were shots you expect him to take that someone blocked? Is he wasting a play by taking a shot his offense is built around him taking even if contested? Or...how many were bad calls on a charge? Missed tip ins that count as a FGA but arent really "using" a play?

When you frame it the way you want at the moment and disregard the details...and that most of history lacks the full records we have...the word "ever" just feels hollow to me.

As I said...Rose had a really unusual stat line in a win he played a significant role in.

There is no fair way to compare it to a 11-38 game from Pistol Pete in 1977 that we dont really know shit about.

Rick Barry im sure has some wild statlines. He went 15/43 vs the 76ers in the finals. 10-28 with one assist the next night. He took 48 shots and 19 free throws for 55 points in game 3. Legend has it he had 59 touches and only 11 passes in game 4. Took 37 shots and 8 fts for 36 points in game 5. 38 shots and 13FTs for 44 points in losing game 6. Thats one series.

Lot of head scratching stat lines out there if you care to look. Too many to put an "ever" on last night for me.

Ever is hard.

Its was an off game with some very high ups and very low downs.

Mountain range night. Peaks and valleys.

the eye test :applause: