GOAT bigs vs anyone team in history

[Marchesk]

5 on 5, regulation game, best of 7. Any team in history, including all-stars, or one of your making, minus the bigs in question, of course.

Wilt
Kareem
Russell
Duncan
Hakeem
Shaq
M. Malone
Petit
Mikan
Garnett

Could those 10 beat anyone (assume good coach and practice time together)? Or will they be at a disadvantage against the right sort of good team, such as the 95 Bulls, 2012 Heat or 2015 Warriors (or dream team substituting Hakeem for D. Robinson)?

[97 bulls]

5 on 5, regulation game, best of 7. Any team in history, including all-stars, or one of your making, minus the bigs in question, of course.

Wilt
Kareem
Russell
Duncan
Hakeem
Shaq
M. Malone
Petit
Mikan
Garnett

Could those 10 beat anyone (assume good coach and practice time together)? Or will they be at a disadvantage against the right sort of good team, such as the 95 Bulls, 2012 Heat or 2015 Warriors (or dream team substituting Hakeem for D. Robinson)?
In a full court game? I dont think they'd win because Centers are naturally bad dribblers. Full court pressure would kill that team.

[Crose]

idk you would have to play young kg at pg because he could pass and play like a guard sometimes , and also add in barkley and nowitzki to play sg and sf. otherwise i think full court game with 94 ft defense would hurt them against a team like 96 bulls with mj and pip defending

[Marchesk]

In a full court game? I dont think they'd win because Centers are naturally bad dribblers. Full court pressure would kill that team.

That's what I thought, but guys like Cavs and Fplii would retort that the bigs could just pass over everyone else's head. They don't need to dribble down the court.

[CavaliersFTW]

In a full court game? I dont think they'd win because Centers are naturally bad dribblers. Full court pressure would kill that team.
They are so long and athletic... a team like that could just re-visit some fundamental strategies of how the game can be played. For example, in some line-ups why even depend on a dribble? Revert to 1950's weaves in half court sets and in full court sets why even let the ball touch the floor who's gonna intercept a sequence of potentially 10.5-11 foot high lob passes with 4 7 footers that are all elite passers running the floor off ball?

Some of those bigs really could push the ball up the court too. Not all of them, but enough that combined with their superior size they might actually overwhelm opponents.

[tenzan]

That's what I thought, but guys like Cavs and Fplii would retort that the bigs could just pass over everyone else's head. They don't need to dribble down the court.

Interesting

Maybe they should change the all star game to 6'9 and above players vs everyone else.

Now that would be interesting.

[iamgine]

5 on 5, regulation game, best of 7. Any team in history, including all-stars, or one of your making, minus the bigs in question, of course.

Wilt
Kareem
Russell
Duncan
Hakeem
Shaq
M. Malone
Petit
Mikan
Garnett

Could those 10 beat anyone (assume good coach and practice time together)? Or will they be at a disadvantage against the right sort of good team, such as the 95 Bulls, 2012 Heat or 2015 Warriors (or dream team substituting Hakeem for D. Robinson)?
They would always be at a disadvantage against teams that is able to use their glaring weaknesses against them. ie fastbreaks, dribbling, spacing. All opponents need to do is push the tempo, full court press, pack the paint. That team will falter pretty quickly. I'd say they would be beat by most teams. Like Pistons with Josh Smith.

Maybe if you include "bigs" like Magic, Bird, Lebron, Barkley, Odom, it would be fairer.

[iamgine]

That's what I thought, but guys like Cavs and Fplii would retort that the bigs could just pass over everyone else's head. They don't need to dribble down the court.
That will work only if it's bigs vs small, not vs an actual team.

[CavaliersFTW]

They would always be at a disadvantage against teams that is able to use their glaring weaknesses against them. ie fastbreaks, dribbling, spacing. All opponents need to do is push the tempo, full court press, pack the paint. That team will falter pretty quickly. I'd say they would be beat by most teams. Like Pistons with Josh Smith.

Maybe if you include "bigs" like Magic, Bird, Lebron, Barkley, Odom, it would be fairer.
We're talking about all-time talent players - scratch that they are centers/PF's... they are all time players.

I don't think anyone can beat them on talent alone. It will look bizarre how they play, but who's gonna beat them? They're all great IQ players they wouldn't just play within the confines of how we think the game should be played, they'll grab every rebound, I think with their collective minds they'd figure out a way to overcome any potential weakness and exploit every facet of what makes them dominating talent.

Wilt for example, used to be used to BREAK full court press defense. His coach would just plant him at the half court and if a team pressed all they'd have to do is toss him a lob. Nobody could get the ball from him once it was in his hands and he could see and pass over anyone and find the open man.

A team of that size normally would be a problem... a team of that size with that TALENT... is going to wreak havoc. The quality of the roster is just too high, it's unfair, some of those guys are the most dominant players ever. Several of them are responsible for NBA rule changes because of their sheer overwhelming physical abilities.

[Overdrive]

Nothing against him, but can I get David Robinson instead of Mikan? Would give me 2 guys who can face up and dribble against smaller players then.

Would play like this:

Wilt/Shaq/Kareem down low
Russell/Moses at the 4
Hakeem/TD/KG/Pettit Wings
D Rob/KG running the point

Team against them

Ewing
Barkley
Rodman
Jordan
Magic

Bird
Mourning
Thurmond
Kobe
Pippen

Why I didn't take Lebron and Oscar: I need defensive bigs on the bench basically bodies that can keep Ewing out of foul drouble if needed. Bird provides the same if not better playmaking as Lebron but much better shooting. I took Pippen instead of OScar, because I think his D is more adequate to help on guys like Hakeem, KG, DRob, Petit who will put the ball on the floor, face up and take some midrange Js. Same goes for Rodman.

Rodman, Ewing, Thurmond, Barkley and Mourning can easily hang with the all big team in terms of rebounding.

I took Kobe over Wade, because I feel shooting is more important than slashing in this setup, but also over West, because I think he can put more fouls on the smaller bigs in the post.

My line up definately isn't the best of the rest players if you strip the top 20 AT of those 10 bigs, but I think they're more suitable than an all "small" having Lebron, Dr J, Oscar, West, Baylor, etc instead of those bigs I choose.


Interesting

Maybe they should change the all star game to 6'9 and above players vs everyone else.

Now that would be interesting.

Not with the current crop of bigs. Imagine Dwight bringing the ball up court or passing to a guy with butter fingers himself. Would be a turnover festival.

[Marchesk]

Would play like this:

Wilt/Shaq/Kareem down low
Russell/Moses at the 4
Hakeem/TD/KG/Pettit Wings
D Rob/KG running the point

Team against them

Ewing
Barkley
Rodman
Jordan
Magic

Bird
Mourning
Thurmond
Kobe
Pippen


That would be a wild game. Would love to see than in an alternate universe. What do you know. A reasoned response on ISH. Occasionally it happens. :cheers:

[iamgine]

We're talking about all-time talent players - scratch that they are centers/PF's... they are all time players.

I don't think anyone can beat them on talent alone. It will look bizarre how they play, but who's gonna beat them? They're all great IQ players they wouldn't just play within the confines of how we think the game should be played, they'll grab every rebound, I think with their collective minds they'd figure out a way to overcome any potential weakness and exploit every facet of what makes them dominating talent.

Wilt for example, used to be used to BREAK full court press defense. His coach would just plant him at the half court and if a team pressed all they'd have to do is toss him a lob. Nobody could get the ball from him once it was in his hands and he could see and pass over anyone and find the open man.

A team of that size normally would be a problem... a team of that size with that TALENT... is going to wreak havoc. The quality of the roster is just too high, it's unfair, some of those guys are the most dominant players ever. Several of them are responsible for NBA rule changes because of their sheer overwhelming physical abilities.
:roll: cmon stop trolling.

[Marchesk]

That will work only if it's bigs vs small, not vs an actual team.

That's what I was wondering, but Cavs is pointing out the bigs could utilize a non-standard style of play.

I like the thought of the all-star game being some sort of bigs vs perimiter, as long as you have some bigs that can handle the ball and pass well.

[hahaitme]

Jordan
Pippen
LeBron
Stockton
CP3
Rodman
Bird
Curry
KD
Yao

Kind of a strange lineup but I figure there's a good combination of:
- some of the GOAT 2-way players who have also shown ability to score on bigs
- some guards who would excel at picking bigs pockets on a full court press
- some shooters with very deep range
- and Yao, because why not

[Overdrive]

btw D 3 secs allowed? Because it would change everything for a guy like CP3 or Nash.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Half court they would rape. Full court would be tougher..,not too sure about that. Is there a 3 point line?

[Marchesk]

Half court they would rape. Full court would be tougher..,not too sure about that. Is there a 3 point line?

Yeah, modern court and rules apply.

How about in their prime:

S. Curry
R. Allen
Larry Bird
D. Nowitzky
A. Sabonis

and then pick whatever backups for them to go against the bigs.

[iamgine]

That's what I was wondering, but Cavs is pointing out the bigs could utilize a non-standard style of play.

I like the thought of the all-star game being some sort of bigs vs perimiter, as long as you have some bigs that can handle the ball and pass well.
They have to, it won't be successful long term though.

One game sure they could win.

[Overdrive]

Yeah, modern court and rules apply.

How about in their prime:

S. Curry
R. Allen
Larry Bird
D. Nowitzky
A. Sabonis

and then pick whatever backups for them to go against the bigs.

They couldn't defend them imo. Sabonis' prime is unknown compared to NBA talent. We could take the '86 or '96 version, but we don't know how he would've fared in '90 being a 4 year NBA pro.

[iamgine]

Yeah, modern court and rules apply.

How about in their prime:

S. Curry
R. Allen
Larry Bird
D. Nowitzky
A. Sabonis

and then pick whatever backups for them to go against the bigs.
That's too good. A realistic team like:

DJ Augustin
Kirk Hinrich (prime)
Larry Bird
Antonio Mcdyess
Rudy Gobert

should win handily too.

[deja vu]

It would be turnovers galore.

[kshutts1]

Three issues facing the "big" team...
1) Ball-handling
2) Outside shooting
3) Perimeter defense/defending quick players

These issues are mitigated by...
1) Size/reach, and ball-handling may be a weakness, but it's not so much of a handicap that the ball would be stripped every time up the court. Maybe we can account for 3-5 more turnovers a game.

2) A lot of the players listed have 15-20 foot range. That's potentially enough range to keep some spacing without totally clogging the paint. However, if the post is fed on every single possession, as it should be, then foul trouble will ensue. In a serious way.

3) Zone. Team would have long and quick enough players to cover the outside, with size in the middle. This team could run a pretty nasty zone. And a huge handicap of zone defense is generally rebounding, but with the gigantic size difference, even that's nullified.

Taking a team of all-time greats and pitting them against this team? Of course the more conventional lineup will win more often than not. But if we're talking some of the historically best teams of all time, then this "bigs" lineup should dominate.