Duncan over Cousins?

[Rose'sACL]

wtf? and duncan is one of my fav players.

[UK2K]

Really strange.

[Genaro]

They went full retarded. Never go full retarded.

[KyleKong]

I think this proves that all the coaches in the NBA hate Boogie.

[Lebronxrings]

duncan and kobe always get the biggest bs awards

[IncarceratedBob]

Does anybody give a shit about Duncan? The closet homo could retire and nobody would blink an eye. Nobody wants to see him in the ASG, I literally rather slit 1 inch wide slits into my entire body and jump into a pool of lemon juice than watch him in the All Star game

[HomieWeMajor]

Coaches be loving players that stay in the house when told instead of players that be grinding hard out in the field.

[They Won]

I think this proves that all the coaches in the NBA hate Boogie.

Well, coaches likely vote most frequently based on who gives them the most nightmares (which this season should be Cousins), but I'm thinking they also consider who they would most likely want on their team, and to the 2nd part the answer is clearly Duncan.

[2010splash]

C'mon dude, Cousins is a fat ass who pads stats in blowout games. Plus he's one of the worst defensive players in the league. Duncan is probably the best defensive player in the league and on a winning team.

Honestly, Harden shouldn't have made it this year. He's a good player but not even a top 2 SG this year.

[lilteapot]

C'mon dude, Cousins is a fat ass who pads stats in blowout games. Plus he's one of the worst defensive players in the league. Duncan is probably the best defensive player in the league and on a winning team.

Honestly, Harden shouldn't have made it this year. He's a good player but not even a top 2 SG this year.
Stop it.

[gts]

This could be Duncan's last all star game so of course after the type of career he's had, coming off of a championship run they're going to put him on the roster unless he's injured

Cousins should be in based on his play, still think he'll get in on an injury replacement this year but if he doesn't he's young, he'll make it next year but in the end they're not going to choose a young player that for the first time is finally living up to his potential over a guy like Duncan who's had an amazing career as one of the best PF/Cs to ever play the game...

Remember it's the all star game not the best players in the league game, it's for fans and as a fan I'd rather watch Duncan one last time knowing there will be many more opportunities for the younger players

[keep-itreal]

Why would you want a player from a losing team in an all star game?:roll:

[Tycriss]

30/17 > 16/28

[supernova5912]

C'mon dude, Cousins is a fat ass who pads stats in blowout games. Plus he's one of the worst defensive players in the league. Duncan is probably the best defensive player in the league and on a winning team.

Honestly, Harden shouldn't have made it this year. He's a good player but not even a top 2 SG this year.

I hope you're trolling.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Why would you want a player from a losing team in an all star game?:roll:

if you put Duncan on the kings they would be worse and he wouldn't be putting up 24/12

[BigMacAttack]

I like Boogie but Duncan is the man, he deserves this nod.

[supernova5912]

30/17 > 16/28

It's not like Duncan has the better team, coach, and franchise. Cousin's statline of 23.8 points and 12.3 rebounds with a 56.0 TS% and a 25.2 PER are better than Duncan's statline of 14.7 points and 10.1 rebounds with a 53.5 TS% and a 22.0 PER

[BigMacAttack]

It's not like Duncan has the better team, coach, and franchise. Cousin's statline of 23.8 points and 12.3 rebounds with a 56.0 TS% and a 25.2 PER are better than Duncan's statline of 14.7 points and 10.1 rebounds with a 53.5 TS% and a 22.0 PER

Coaches dont like Boogie obviously, Dwade and Bosh got picked off a shit team but boogie didnt. Its a shame cause he's a stud.

Happy to see Duncan get it though.

[Shih508]

If they picked Cousin over Duncan, do you think it's right that Kings has one all star while Spurs has 0?

Team record Baby

[Gabuyaux]

C'mon dude, Cousins is a fat ass who pads stats in blowout games. Plus he's one of the worst defensive players in the league. Duncan is probably the best defensive player in the league and on a winning team.
So you want to see defense in the Allstar game?:coleman:

[KNOW1EDGE]

Duncan should give up his spot to Boogie.

He knows he doesn't deserve to be there, and he probably doesn't even want to play in the game.

Duncan could use the time to rest at home instead of partaking in the joke of an all star weekend.

[JohnFreeman]

sigh

[UK2K]

30/17 > 16/28
I hate people like you. You think Duncan > Cousins because the Spurs team and coach and management and front office are better than the Kings? How does that apply to who is the better player?

Kings record last two seasons...

2013-14

With Cousins: 28-43
Without Cousins: 0-11

2014-15

With Cousins: 14-18
Without Cousins: 2-10

Total:
With Cousins 42-61
Without Cousins: 2-21

Now what's the Spurs record without Duncan?

[UK2K]

If they picked Cousin over Duncan, do you think it's right that Kings has one all star while Spurs has 0?

Team record Baby

What does Parker/Leonard/Ginobli/Diaw/Splitter have to do with Duncan and Cousins individual performances?

[Dwight Shrute]

It probably helps that Half the leagues coaches have either played with or coached Duncan at some point (probably have some rings because of him too)

And that Boogie comes off as having a bad attitude

[GOBB]

This could be Duncan's last all star game so of course after the type of career he's had, coming off of a championship run they're going to put him on the roster unless he's injured

Cousins should be in based on his play, still think he'll get in on an injury replacement this year but if he doesn't he's young, he'll make it next year but in the end they're not going to choose a young player that for the first time is finally living up to his potential over a guy like Duncan who's had an amazing career as one of the best PF/Cs to ever play the game...

Remember it's the all star game not the best players in the league game, it's for fans and as a fan I'd rather watch Duncan one last time knowing there will be many more opportunities for the younger players

This

[KNOW1EDGE]

The all-star game is not about a players previous success, legacy or stats. It's not about paying homage to specific players.

It's about which player is having the best year. In this current season.

Tim Duncan is not having a better year than Demarcus Cousins.

[Dwight Shrute]

The all-star game is not about a players previous success, legacy or stats. It's not about paying homage to specific players.

It's about which player is having the best year. In this current season.

Tim Duncan is not having a better year than Demarcus Cousins.

No it's not... It's a Popularity contest

[G-train]

Really strange.

Is it strange?
Is it strange that a player that publicly ridiculed coaches last season for not voting for him, doesn't get voted in again?

Plus IMO, Duncan has had a better season. Maybe I value leadership, intangibles, defence, ball security, etc higher than ppg on a bad team.

[UK2K]

Is it strange?
Is it strange that a player that publicly ridiculed coaches last season for not voting for him, doesn't get voted in again?

Plus IMO, Duncan has had a better season. Maybe I value leadership, intangibles, defence, ball security, etc higher than ppg on a bad team.
Its strange that in a game of the best players, the best players aren't in it.

[BigMacAttack]

Its strange that in a game of the best players, the best players aren't in it.


Coaches are people bruh. They are supposed to vote for the best without letting personal feelings get in the way but that would never happen, if they think big homie is an asshole then they will be reluctant to vote for him.

Add to that Duncan is an all time great and coaches dream then its not suprising he got it over Boogie.

Edit: I like DMC and the way he says what he feels but he needs to realise not even LBJ can go around doing and saying everything he wants without copping shit for it. Cousins may have to wise up a bit and start playing the 'game'.

All he has done so far is put up awesome numbers on a bad team that loses alot. Throw in what coaches perceive as a shitty attitude and there goes an all star snub.

[KNOW1EDGE]

No it's not... It's a Popularity contest

Incorrect Mr. Shrute

[G-train]

Its strange that in a game of the best players, the best players aren't in it.

The best players, as voted by the coaches. The guys that actually know the players and understand the NBA at a very high level. Not guys who rely on a few stat categories.

[rmt]

Coaches are people bruh. They are supposed to vote for the best without letting personal feelings get in the way but that would never happen, if they think big homie is an asshole then they will be reluctant to vote for him.

Add to that Duncan is an all time great and coaches dream then its not suprising he got it over Boogie.

Edit: I like DMC and the way he says what he feels but he needs to realise not even LBJ can go around doing and saying everything he wants without copping shit for it. Cousins may have to wise up a bit and start playing the 'game'.

All he has done so far is put up awesome numbers on a bad team that loses alot. Throw in what coaches perceive as a shitty attitude and there goes an all star snub.

Cousins needs to think of it as a job. Attitude (of the player) and perception (of the coaches/voters) count a lot.

As far as Duncan is concerned, I'd rather he stay home and rest.

The reasoning behind the criteria used to choose all-stars should be consistent. If 3 Hawks are gonna be rewarded (for a great team record), then Durant (who's missed more games than he's played) shouldn't be chosen when OKC's record is so bad. By that criteria, Liliard should have been chosen.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

If they picked Cousin over Duncan, do you think it's right that Kings has one all star while Spurs has 0?

This is what it all comes down to. We're the 6th seed in the West, would be pretty ridiculous to not have an all-star and for a 16-28 team to have one. Don't care what his stats are, his team sucks and the best teams should have at least one all-star representative.

Point. Blank. Period.

[BigMacAttack]

Cousins needs to think of it as a job. Attitude (of the player) and perception (of the coaches/voters) count a lot.

As far as Duncan is concerned, I'd rather he stay home and rest.

The reasoning behind the criteria used to choose all-stars should be consistent. If 3 Hawks are gonna be rewarded (for a great team record), then Durant (who's missed more games than he's played) shouldn't be chosen when OKC's record is so bad. By that criteria, Liliard should have been chosen.

How he responds to this snub will be telling imo.

[JohnFreeman]

Should have made it over Durant. I would have taken Conley over Westbrook

[MMM]

if you put Duncan on the kings they would be worse and he wouldn't be putting up 24/12

if you put cousins on the spurs they would be worse as well and without duncan would relatively be worse off than the kings without cousins. The kings are already a bad team while cousins on the spurs probably knocks them down to average/mediocre

Edit: still feel cousins should be an allstar just not fond of the above argument

[JohnFreeman]

if you put cousins on the spurs they would be worse as well and without duncan would relatively be worse off than the kings without cousins. The kings are already a bad team while cousins on the spurs probably knocks them down to average/mediocre

Edit: still feel cousins should be an allstar just not fond of the above argument
With pops coaching, you actually believe this?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

"Kobe over Lillard?"

[Spurs5Rings2014]

With pops coaching, you actually believe this?

We actually need our players to play defense, believe it or not. Rim protector/defensive anchor is too important a role to be trifled with.

[ProfessorMurder]

Cuz averages 23/12/3/1.5/1.5 on 49% over the last two seasons and can't make an all-star game. Shit is bogus.

[MMM]

With pops coaching, you actually believe this?

cousins is one of my fav players but right now he doesn't have many winning traits but i would definitely be more of a believer if pop had him straight out the gate.

[UK2K]

The best players, as voted by the coaches. The guys that actually know the players and understand the NBA at a very high level. Not guys who rely on a few stat categories.
Instead we rely on career achievements to determine the AS participants for a given year?

Because Duncan is not an elite player anymore. Solid, sure, but not elite, and most certainly not an all star.

[UK2K]

cousins is one of my fav players but right now he doesn't have many winning traits but i would definitely be more of a believer if pop had him straight out the gate.
The Kings are 2-21 when he doesn't play.

So, it can be argued that every win the kings get is entirely dependent on whether Cousins plays.

Like I said, he's being penalized for having a terrible roster, like he had a hand in assembling it. Its the same thing with the MVP vote.

[T_L_P]

Cousins deserves it over Duncan.

But Durant shouldn't even be there.

[JohnFreeman]

Cousins deserves it over Duncan.

But Durant shouldn't even be there.
Thank you. I would choose Conley over Durant

[T_L_P]

Thank you. I would choose Conley over Durant

'We're not giving it to Cousins. He needs to make the Playoffs'

-Gives it to Westbrook and Durant anyway.

:oldlol:

It should just be Duncan and Boogie. No way does a guy who hasnt even played half his games deserve to be there.

[JohnFreeman]

'We're not giving it to Cousins. He needs to make the Playoffs'

-Gives it to Westbrook and Durant anyway.

:oldlol:

It should just be Duncan and Boogie. No way does a guy who hasnt even played half his games deserve to be there.
It's ridiculous. Guaranteed Lillard get's the reserve over Cousins as well, if someone drops out

[Real14]

Cousins deserves it over Duncan.

But Durant shouldn't even be there.
I agree with the first line but don't agree with the last line.

[UK2K]

if you put cousins on the spurs they would be worse as well and without duncan would relatively be worse off than the kings without cousins. The kings are already a bad team while cousins on the spurs probably knocks them down to average/mediocre

Edit: still feel cousins should be an allstar just not fond of the above argument
You don't really believe that do you?

[UK2K]

This is what it all comes down to. We're the 6th seed in the West, would be pretty ridiculous to not have an all-star and for a 16-28 team to have one. Don't care what his stats are, his team sucks and the best teams should have at least one all-star representative.

Point. Blank. Period.

So, only teams with winning records have all-stars?

OKC is 23-23 and has two correct? Do you think every team with a better record should have at least three? What difference does it make which team has more? You can play team ball (Spurs) and (shouldn't have) not have any all-stars.

See, this is what I am talking about. The record should not matter, at all. Its not a team award, its an individual one, and as I pointed out, the Kings are 2-21 without Cousins in the lineup. That to me tells me that he is anything and everything that team has. Would the Spurs go 2-21 without Duncan? Would OKC go 2-21 without Westbrook?

So now you are bringing in the GM's accomplishments into the equation. That has nothing to do with the player's achievements. You are penalizing a player for playing on a poorly managed team.

[KNOW1EDGE]

Wtf does team record matter anyways?

A team doesn't make the Allstars game, an individual does.

Team record has nothing to do with individual talent.

The all star game is supposed to contain this season's best players. Regardless of team record, a players past success, a players personality etc etc

Sadly, the best players in the NBA will not be in the all star game

[Real14]

Wtf does team record matter anyways?

A team doesn't make the Allstars game, an individual does.

Team record has nothing to do with individual talent.

The all star game is supposed to contain this season's best players. Regardless of team record, a players past success, a players personality etc etc

Sadly, the best players in the NBA will not be in the all star game
exactly. 3 hawks made it worse too:facepalm

[UK2K]

Wtf does team record matter anyways?

A team doesn't make the Allstars game, an individual does.

Team record has nothing to do with individual talent.

The all star game is supposed to contain this season's best players. Regardless of team record, a players past success, a players personality etc etc

Sadly, the best players in the NBA will not be in the all star game


Well, that was true when before the Duncan fiasco, when Kobe was voted in.

[rmt]

Wtf does team record matter anyways?

A team doesn't make the Allstars game, an individual does.

Team record has nothing to do with individual talent.

The all star game is supposed to contain this season's best players. Regardless of team record, a players past success, a players personality etc etc

Sadly, the best players in the NBA will not be in the all star game

Explain then why 3 Hawks made it. Are their individual talent deserving of all-star honors or is it because of ATL's fantastic TEAM record? At least be consistent - if you're going to gripe about team record, do it for both conferences. IMO, Durant isn't one of this season's best players seeing as he hasn't even played in half of the season.

[andremiller07]

As someone who has actually watched every Kings game for a number of years I actually don't mind that Cousins didn't make the team and here's why.

Over the first 15 games before he fell ill the Kings were 9-6 and Cousins for the first time ever was playing up to potential in terms of impacting a game (not putting up stats). He was playing in the paint and protecting the rim.

Since than and the coach being fired he's basically Josh Smith 2.0 he's making the most ridiculous turnovers I have ever seen (he's like like 3-4 games of 9 turnovers or more), taking long range jumpers team's let him brick and picking up ridiculous fouls while blocking some shots.

Since his return he's basically been putting up empty stats and somewhat stat padding while having very little impact on the overall course of the game.

You got to judge it over the first 40 something games not just the first 15.

I also think Monta should have been a lock over Duncan.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

So, only teams with winning records have all-stars?

OKC is 23-23 and has two correct? Do you think every team with a better record should have at least three? What difference does it make which team has more? You can play team ball (Spurs) and (shouldn't have) not have any all-stars.

See, this is what I am talking about. The record should not matter, at all. Its not a team award, its an individual one, and as I pointed out, the Kings are 2-21 without Cousins in the lineup. That to me tells me that he is anything and everything that team has. Would the Spurs go 2-21 without Duncan? Would OKC go 2-21 without Westbrook?

So now you are bringing in the GM's accomplishments into the equation. That has nothing to do with the player's achievements. You are penalizing a player for playing on a poorly managed team.

No, what I said is the 6th seed should have at LEAST one all-star, not that 'only teams with winning records should have all-stars.' I never said I agreed with OKC having two all-stars. It's not about a team having 'more,' it's about a team in the play offs not having ANY. And how does 'you can play team ball and not have any' make any sense when you have a team like the Hawks having three, maybe four all-stars when there are clearly better statistical players on worse teams, like DeMarcus Cousins in the West?

The record should matter. The Spurs have been historically bad without Duncan as proven by TLP many times.

Believe it or not but DMC IS part of the problem with how poor the Kings have been this season. Putting up pretty stats on a bad team doesn't make you a good player and putting up less pretty stats on a good team doesn't make you a role player. You can't measure Duncan's defensive impact on the court as well as all the other qualities he brings to our team like leadership, intangibles, clutch play, etc. Cousins will have his time one day, but today just isn't it yet.

[UK2K]

As someone who has actually watched every Kings game for a number of years I actually don't mind that Cousins didn't make the team and here's why.

Over the first 15 games before he fell ill the Kings were 9-6 and Cousins for the first time ever was playing up to potential in terms of impacting a game (not putting up stats). He was playing in the paint and protecting the rim.

Since than and the coach being fired he's basically Josh Smith 2.0 he's making the most ridiculous turnovers I have ever seen (he's like like 3-4 games of 9 turnovers or more), taking long range jumpers team's let him brick and picking up ridiculous fouls while blocking some shots.

Since his return he's basically been putting up empty stats and somewhat stat padding while having very little impact on the overall course of the game.

You got to judge it over the first 40 something games not just the first 15.

I also think Monta should have been a lock over Duncan.

Cousins pre-flu
23.5, 12.6, 2.4, 51/80, 3.7 TO

Cousins post-flu
24.1, 12.1, 3.9, 46/80 5.0 TO

The Kings are 5-12 since Cousins came back from the flu, but his stats are nearly identical. I bet if I went through the entire Kings roster and did the same thing, I would find that Rudy Gay is playing much worse now than he was at the beginning of the season.

I believe what you are saying, but I think Cousins play is as of late is more a product of his teammates playing like garbage.

Here, I did it for you.

Gay pre-Cousins flu
21.1, 6.5, 4.0, 46/33/86

Gay post-Cousins flu
18.6, 5.2, 3.1, 45/36/88

I don't know what more you expect from a guy when the team's second option, by far, is playing so poorly. He can only do so much. Again, the teammates he relies on and plays with are hot garbage, and probably always will be with how poorly the Kings are managed.

I believe you when you say DMC is playing stupid as of late, but, how much do you expect him to do with what hes got to work with.

[andremiller07]

Cousins pre-flu
23.5, 12.6, 2.4, 51/80, 3.7 TO

Cousins post-flu
24.1, 12.1, 3.9, 46/80 5.0 TO

The Kings are 5-12 since Cousins came back from the flu, but his stats are nearly identical. I bet if I went through the entire Kings roster and did the same thing, I would find that Rudy Gay is playing much worse now than he was at the beginning of the season.

I believe what you are saying, but I think Cousins play is as of late is more a product of his teammates playing like garbage.

Here, I did it for you.

Gay pre-Cousins flu
21.1, 6.5, 4.0, 46/33/86

Gay post-Cousins flu
18.6, 5.2, 3.1, 45/36/88

I don't know what more you expect from a guy when the team's second option, by far, is playing so poorly. He can only do so much. Again, the teammates he relies on and plays with are hot garbage, and probably always will be with how poorly the Kings are managed.

I believe you when you say DMC is playing stupid as of late, but, how much do you expect him to do with what hes got to work with.
The problem with the Kings is no one actually know's what the problem is 100% I believe it's cause we are trying to run isolation for Rudy/Cuz but in general they both lack the IQ to do it successfully to where they can lead you to wins over a season (they can do it in spurts). I also believe both have given up sort of like Gasol did with the Lakers last year and both are just laying for that cheque.

The problem is with Cousins/Gay I don't believe they ever allow Darren Collison to actually play as a PG which he's actually capable of being and Ben Mclemore get's frozen out by the team so 2 of our best 4 players are actually taken out of the play by our own team.

All I know is we are not winning and everyone is at fault.

While Cousins numbers are impressive as of late they are not really translating to actual impact on the floor.

[T_L_P]

As someone who has actually watched every Kings game for a number of years I actually don't mind that Cousins didn't make the team and here's why.

Over the first 15 games before he fell ill the Kings were 9-6 and Cousins for the first time ever was playing up to potential in terms of impacting a game (not putting up stats). He was playing in the paint and protecting the rim.

Since than and the coach being fired he's basically Josh Smith 2.0 he's making the most ridiculous turnovers I have ever seen (he's like like 3-4 games of 9 turnovers or more), taking long range jumpers team's let him brick and picking up ridiculous fouls while blocking some shots.

Since his return he's basically been putting up empty stats and somewhat stat padding while having very little impact on the overall course of the game.

You got to judge it over the first 40 something games not just the first 15.

I also think Monta should have been a lock over Duncan.


Great insight on Cousins (though he was/is still better than TD), but this is crazy.

Are you seriously telling me 20/2.5/4/2 with below-average-to-bad defense is more valuable than 15/11/3/2 and DPOY level defense?

The advanced stats say Duncan has been much better. The metrics say he is on another planet entirely. :confusedshrug:

[andremiller07]

Great insight on Cousins (though he was/is still better than TD), but this is crazy.

Are you seriously telling me 20/2.5/4/2 with below average defense is more valuable than 15/11/3/2 and DPOY level defense?

The advanced stats say Duncan has been much better. The metrics say he is on another planet. :confusedshrug:
Monta #1 in clutch points and is clearly the best player on the Mavericks who have a good record. I just think if people are going to argue the Spurs deserve 1 all star than so do the Mavericks. Monta has been excellent this year.

[JohnFreeman]

I disagree Andre, I think Cousins deserves to be reserve

[ProfessorMurder]

Memphis is 30-7 with ZBo and 4-5 without him, on the 3rd best team in the league.

He's 3rd in double-doubles with 27. (17 straight... Pau has 29, Vuc 28.)

3rd in rebounds per game at just under 12, averaging 17 on over 51%.

Last week I heard he had the best +/- in the league in the last 2 minutes of 4th quarters too.

[dunksby]

Al Horford and Bosh are All-stars but Cousins isn't?

[navy]

Al Horford and Bosh are All-stars but Cousins isn't?
Different conference.

[JohnFreeman]

Different conference.
Another reason to just get rid of East and West, and select 30 players

[UK2K]

Great insight on Cousins (though he was/is still better than TD), but this is crazy.

Are you seriously telling me 20/2.5/4/2 with below-average-to-bad defense is more valuable than 15/11/3/2 and DPOY level defense?

The advanced stats say Duncan has been much better. The metrics say he is on another planet entirely. :confusedshrug:

Duncan averages 10.1 rebounds...

But DPOY level defense? Really?

His defense must be off the charts because his offense is pedestrian at best.

14th among PFs in FG %? 33rd if you want to look post players (PF and C). 11th in rebounds.

He's a joke of a selection given his production THIS SEASON. Its not really debatable.

[T_L_P]

Duncan averages 10.1 rebounds...

But DPOY level defense? Really?

His defense must be off the charts because his offense is pedestrian at best.

14th among PFs in FG %? 33rd if you want to look post players (PF and C). 11th in rebounds.

He's a joke of a selection given his production THIS SEASON. Its not really debatable.

Again, I can talk with you about the specific nuances of defense (his positioning, timing, ability to block shoots nearly flat-footed which leads to less fouls) but I've already asked you about that and you declined to respond.

So, I'll give you the stats (which you like).

10.1 RPG (as if Rebounding makes up more than 5% of defense)
2.0 BPG

#1 in league-wide DRPM (5th in overall RPM)
#1 in Defensive Box +/-
#4 in DWS
#2 in DRtg

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2015_leaders.html
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

Yes, DPOY-level defense.

[kshutts1]

Another reason to just get rid of East and West, and select 30 players
The ASG, and many other things about the NBA, are so broken.

Why bill the ASG as the game's best players, then actually select each conference's best players on good teams (Horford, Millsap, Teague), or popular players on bad teams (Wade, Bosh)?

Either have coaches choose the best 30 players in the league, regardless of conference, and then teams can be made up in some relatively arbitrary way (drawing out of a hat or something stupid. Who cares at this point)

or..

Admit that the game truly means nothing in a historical setting (as so many try to say that it does) and let fans select ALL the participants.

Basically.. is the point of the game to honor those players that are playing at the highest level? Or is the point of the game to be entertaining to fans? Can't have it both ways. Commit.

[UK2K]

Again, I can talk with you about the specific nuances of defense (his positioning, timing, ability to block shoots nearly flat-footed which leads to less fouls) but I've already asked you about that and you declined to respond.

So, I'll give you the stats (which you like).

10.1 RPG (as if Rebounding makes up more than 5% of defense)
2.0 BPG

#1 in league-wide DRPM (5th in overall RPM)
#1 in Defensive Box +/-
#4 in DWS
#2 in DRtg

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2015_leaders.html
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

Yes, DPOY-level defense.
Mother fvcker like a week ago I used those same stats arguing for Harden as a equal or better defender as Thompson/Butler and you told me they were garbage. Then you gave me another stat that had Harden rated above both of them.

So which is it? Are they legit or not? Because those same stats say Harden is a better (not equal, better) defender then Thompson and Butler.

[T_L_P]

Mother fvcker like a week ago I used those same stats arguing for Harden as a equal or better defender as Thompson/Butler and you told me they were garbage. Then you gave me another stat that had Harden rated above both of them.

So which is it? Are they legit or not? Because those same stats say Harden is a better (not equal, better) defender then Thompson and Butler.

I said stats need to back up what you are seeing. I asked you to explain why Harden was a better defender than Butler and you just posted the stats. That's why I said what you are posting isn't legit.

I've posted the numbers for Duncan, which proves what I see. He defensive positioning is still the best in the league for bigs. His rotations have looked sharp outside the past week or two, as he is gassed. He can block and contest shots without jumping, which means he fouls less and doesn't bite on as many pumpfakes. He co-ordinates the defense too and recently Mills/Green said in interviews that he still covers up for the defensive mistakes of his teammates.

Like I said, the numbers back this up.

Now explain how Duncan isn't playing DPOY-level defense.

[UK2K]

I said stats need to back up what you are seeing. I asked you to explain why Harden was a better defender than Butler and you just posted the stats. That's why I said what you are posting isn't legit.

I've posted the numbers for Duncan, which proves what I see. He defensive positioning is still the best in the league for bigs. His rotations have looked sharp outside the past week or two, as he is gassed. He can block and contest shots without jumping, which means he fouls less and doesn't bite on as many pumpfakes. He co-ordinates the defense too and recently Mills/Green said in interviews that he still covers up for the defensive mistakes of his teammates.

Like I said, the numbers back this up.

Now explain how Duncan isn't playing DPOY-level defense.
So your stats back up what you see, but the same stats don't back up what I see?

He's 5th in blocks/fouls. Solid. 7th in BPG, decent.

His opponents FG% at the rim is decent, but he lags behind Dwight, Bogut, Hibbert, Perkins... And many more.

I'm not disagreeing with you that he plays great defense. But DPOY is a stretch. Even then, his offense is so poor that his defense would have to be at near historic levels to even begin to justify his selection.

[T_L_P]

So your stats back up what you see, but the same stats don't back up what I see?

He's 5th in blocks/fouls. Solid. 7th in BPG, decent.

His opponents FG% at the rim is decent, but he lags behind Dwight, Bogut, Hibbert, Perkins... And many more.

I'm not disagreeing with you that he plays great defense. But DPOY is a stretch. Even then, his offense is so poor that his defense would have to be at near historic levels to even begin to justify his selection.

That's the god damnthing. You still haven't told me what you see, other than 'blocks and steals'. What about Harden's defense is better than Butler's? Does he man up better? Does he have better lateral quickness? Does he understand when to give players space and when to let players drive (he didn't against Cory Joseph the other day, I can tell you that much)? Does he dodge picks well or take charges more than most? Does he not foul a lot? Does he gamble less? What?

Opponent FG% at the rim is terrible. It needs to be corroborated with # of attempts, contest %, etc. It says Pau is playing All-NBA Defense which he obviously isn't.

What does offense have to do with any of this? Bogut isn't playing great offense (his ORPM is in the - and Duncan's in still +), and he's a DPOY candidate. Bowen and Ben Wallace were horrible offensive players. That had no effect.

Even if you want to call his offense bad, his overall RPM is still top 5 or 6 in the whole league, which shows how much better his DRPM is than the next guy.

[UK2K]

That's the god damnthing. You still haven't told me what you see, other than 'blocks and steals'. What about Harden's defense is better than Butler's? Does he man up better? Does he have better lateral quickness? Does he understand when to give players space and when to let players drive (he didn't against Cory Joseph the other day, I can tell you that much)? Does he dodge picks well or take charges more than most? Does he not foul a lot? Does he gamble less? What?

Opponent FG% at the rim is terrible. It needs to be corroborated with # of attempts, contest %, etc. It says Pau is playing All-NBA Defense which he obviously isn't.

What does offense have to do with any of this? Bogut isn't playing great offense, and he's a DPOY candidate. Bowen and Ben Wallace were horrible offensive players. That had no effect.

Even if you want to call his offense bad, his overall RPM is still top 5 or 6 in the whole league, which shows how much better his DRPM is than the next guy.
Bogut did not make an all star team did he? That's where this whole thing started.

Your argument is because he's a DPOY candidate (arguable) he deserves to make the AS game. I say, his defense is above average, likely a top 5 defensive center (or PF, whatever he is these days), but his offense is average. Average. Nothing more. Does every possible DPOY candidate automatically deserve an AS bid?

So my whole argument is, if his name wasn't Tim Duncan, and he doesn't have the persona he does, he wouldn't have been voted in.

BTW, RPM has Morris at #17 and Middleton at #19. PM is a direct relation to how well your team plays against an opposing team.

"RPM takes into account teammates, opponents and additional factors"

[T_L_P]

Bogut did not make an all star team did he? That's where this whole thing started.

Your argument is because he's a DPOY candidate (arguable) he deserves to make the AS game. I say, his defense is above average, likely a top 5 defensive center (or PF, whatever he is these days), but his offense is average. Average. Nothing more. Does every possible DPOY candidate automatically deserve an AS bid?

So my whole argument is, if his name wasn't Tim Duncan, and he doesn't have the persona he does, he wouldn't have been voted in.

No, this thing started when someone said Monte Ellis (not an AS) is having a better season than Tim. I debated that. Go up a few posts and you'll see me outright say Cousins deserves it more. Then I said Durant has missed more games than he's played so he should be disqualified, meaning that spot should go to Tim (what other Front Court player deserves it more)?

And you're pulling the same shit again. You are clueless when it comes to defense. Just blanket statements about 'good vs. bad'.

Why is it average? Because his opponent FG% at the rim is worse than Matt Bonner's? The very stats you used to prop up James Harden don't apply to Tim.

Like I said, you've got nothing. The stats says he's clearly the DPOY. I've explained why his defense is great to go along with those numbers and you haven't ('average defense, opponent FG% at the rim worse than Matt Bonner's and Pau Gasol's').

[Anaximandro1]

no explanation is necessary ...


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[Jlamb47]

Because Cousins cant take his team to the playoffs, and also Duncan carried the spurs with all the injuries we had this year. Duncan is also a better defender/rim protector. Yal too jelly

[ProfessorMurder]

Because Cousins cant take his team to the playoffs, and also Duncan carried the spurs with all the injuries we had this year. Duncan is also a better defender/rim protector. Yal too jelly
Do you understand what the word jealous means?

[Jlamb47]

Do you understand what the word jealous means?

Why you ask i didnt use the word jealous

[ballup]

Why you ask i didnt use the word jealous
You did use it.

[Jlamb47]

You did use it.
show me, i dont see the word "jealous" in any of my post

[ballup]

show me, i dont see the word "jealous" in any of my post
Jelly is a nickname for the word jealous. Stop acting as if you are a smartass.

[Jlamb47]

Jelly is a nickname for the word jealous. Stop acting as if you are a smartass.

I was not using the same term, and im not

[Lebron23]

Jelly is a nickname for the word jealous. Stop acting as if you are a smartass.


:lol :lol :lol

[La Frescobaldi]

Jelly is a nickname for the word jealous. Stop acting as if you are a smartass.

http://img.thrfun.com/img/003/043/grape_jelly_on_toast_s.jpg


http://www.campussqueeze.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/sjam3.jpg

[UK2K]

23.8 ppg - 5th
12.3 rpg - 3rd
1.6 BPG - 12th
26 DubDeuces - 4th

Missed 12 games and is 4th in double doubles.

[They Won]

http://img.thrfun.com/img/003/043/grape_jelly_on_toast_s.jpg


http://www.campussqueeze.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/sjam3.jpg

Mmmm... delicious.

[UK2K]

No, this thing started when someone said Monte Ellis (not an AS) is having a better season than Tim. I debated that. Go up a few posts and you'll see me outright say Cousins deserves it more. Then I said Durant has missed more games than he's played so he should be disqualified, meaning that spot should go to Tim (what other Front Court player deserves it more)?

And you're pulling the same shit again. You are clueless when it comes to defense. Just blanket statements about 'good vs. bad'.

Why is it average? Because his opponent FG% at the rim is worse than Matt Bonner's? The very stats you used to prop up James Harden don't apply to Tim.

Like I said, you've got nothing. The stats says he's clearly the DPOY. I've explained why his defense is great to go along with those numbers and you haven't ('average defense, opponent FG% at the rim worse than Matt Bonner's and Pau Gasol's').

My bad. I thought you were arguing Duncan > Cousins. then we are on the same page on that account then.

[Jlamb47]

:applause:
http://img.thrfun.com/img/003/043/grape_jelly_on_toast_s.jpg


http://www.campussqueeze.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/sjam3.jpg