Rofl at MJ beating up Will Perdue

[truhooper]

3:45-7:20 :roll:

http://youtu.be/8_aYOQVWSCY

[tontoz]

I remember reading about that. Perdue set weak picks during games but set a tough one on MJ that buckled him and MJ went off.

[LBJ 23]

Very, very interesting interview, thanks for posting that :cheers:

[Marchesk]

What did happen to Lebradford Smith?

[3ball]

3:45-7:20 :roll:

http://youtu.be/8_aYOQVWSCY


the best thing about this interview is that it proves that there is no such thing as jordan "mythology".

that interview was as real as it gets.

MJ raised those boys into men and deserves all the credit.

Don't take my word for it, take Horace's.. :confusedshrug:

[SugarHill]

the best thing about this interview is that it proves that there is no such thing as jordan "mythology".

You of all people saying this :coleman:

[3ball]

You of all people saying this :coleman:
what difference does it make - HORACE is the one saying jordan taught him everything and the bulls were nothing without him, not me.

and all those stories about MJ destroying guys and doing legendary alpha things are true.

it's not big deal for me though like it is for you, because i already knew all this stuff, obviously.

[SugarHill]

what difference does it make - HORACE is the one saying jordan taught him everything and the bulls were nothing without him, not me.
Pippen also said LeBron is better than Jordan. So do you just pick which Bulls player to believe based on whether you like what they're saying or nah?

[scandisk_]

Pippen also said LeBron is better than Jordan. So do you just pick which Bulls player to believe based on whether you like what they're saying or nah?

you sure :oldlol: I'm sure Pip back-peddaled on that comment :oldlol:

[Da_Realist]

Not surprised the usual suspects don't want to talk about this interview. Maybe Horace should go to basketball-reference and count up all the MVPs and all star games before he answers any more questions.

[aj1987]

So, MJ could beat up people and they wouldn't fight back? :oldlol:

[L.Kizzle]

So, MJ could beat up people and they wouldn't fight back? :oldlol:
MJ da gang leader.

[guy]

Damn I always felt like the animosity Grant had for Jordan was overblown, but that interview made it seem like it was nonexistent. Grant was talking like Jordan was his father :oldlol:

[tpols]

So, MJ could beat up people and they couldn't fight back? :oldlol:

Fixed.

[Im so nba'd out]

If he played back then LaBradFord James wouldn't be known either

[DatAsh]

I actually liked the interview. Horace seems like a nice guy. Just wished they had talked a bit more about Horace, and a bit less about Jordan.

[PHILA]

The Jordan Rules - Sam Smith (1992)

http://i.imgur.com/NUcRWuD.jpg

[Quickening]

So MJ gets wiped out in practice by a decent screen, thows a bitch fit, chucks 2 haymakers, guy doesn't even feel it, but can't react because it is MJ, and he would get kicked off team.

Really alpha, small dick syndrome :applause: :lol

[bigkingsfan]

That's obviously Harvey Grant.

[AirFederer]

MJ the alpha of alphas.

Great player, not that great a person, which is fine by me. :pimp:

[Im so nba'd out]

So MJ gets wiped out in practice by a decent screen, thows a bitch fit, chucks 2 haymakers, guy doesn't even feel it, but can't react because it is MJ, and he would get kicked off team.

Really alpha, small dick syndrome :applause: :lol

LeBron got thrown 30 feet by Nazr Mohammed and Wasn't LeBron about to get his shit pushed in by mario chalmers but half the team had to hold "rio" back:oldlol: **** OUT OF HERE CLOWN

AND YOU READ THE STORY MF!THAT *****'S KNEES "WOBBLED" HE WAS DAMN NEAR KNOCKED OUT ON HIS FEET.You try jordan and he's running in your shit point blank period.#ALPHAAS****

[iamgine]

you sure :oldlol: I'm sure Pip back-peddaled on that comment :oldlol:
Because of the backlash he received, it's smart for him to backpedal.

[Real14]

What did happen to Lebradford Smith?
he left just like he left his son LeBron.

[TheMarkMadsen]

What a bitch gets upset over some screen

:roll: :roll:

[guy]

What was that dude talking about Pippen crying on the bench with the Blazers?

[Im so nba'd out]

What a bitch gets upset over some screen

:roll: :roll:
Call Jordan a bitch to my face...Temecula is only 20 hours away

[Quickening]

LeBron got thrown 30 feet by Nazr Mohammed and Wasn't LeBron about to get his shit pushed in by mario chalmers but half the team had to hold "rio" back:oldlol: **** OUT OF HERE CLOWN

AND YOU READ THE STORY MF!THAT *****'S KNEES "WOBBLED" HE WAS DAMN NEAR KNOCKED OUT ON HIS FEET.You try jordan and he's running in your shit point blank period.#ALPHAAS****

2 haymakers to a guy not expecting it, and MJ still couldn't drop him... chit straight up embarassing, not quite as embarassing as being called a small dicked bitch by Madonna, but still pretty embarassing. :lol :roll:

[Beastmode88]

2 haymakers to a guy not expecting it, and MJ still couldn't drop him... chit straight up embarassing, not quite as embarassing as being called a small dicked bitch by Madonna, but still pretty embarassing. :lol :roll:

yawns cant attack someones for his game.... :sleeping :sleeping

[Quickening]

yawns cant attack someones for his game.... :sleeping :sleeping

I doubt having a small dick helps MJ game with the women :lol :oldlol: Pippen taking all the sloots, while MJ takes his frustrations out on team mates, beta gonna beta

[poido123]

Pippen also said LeBron is better than Jordan. So do you just pick which Bulls player to believe based on whether you like what they're saying or nah?


He quickly retracted this statement and declared MJ goat.


People just love to nit pick the great players. It's like they can't leave them in their rightful place :oldlol:

[97 bulls]

the best thing about this interview is that it proves that there is no such thing as jordan "mythology".

that interview was as real as it gets.

MJ raised those boys into men and deserves all the credit.

Don't take my word for it, take Horace's.. :confusedshrug:
What the hell are you talking about??????

All he said is that Jordan was a great leader.

But since youre so enamored with Grants opinion, im sure you now agree with what he said about Pip at the 21:00 mark.

[poido123]

Because of the backlash he received, it's smart for him to backpedal.


Wtf would a guy of Pippen stature care about Backlash to a fairly inconsequential comment?

:roll: :roll:

[iamgine]

Wtf would a guy of Pippen stature care about Backlash to a fairly inconsequential comment?

:roll: :roll:
Why would anyone care about words on a message board or twitter?

Some people just do.

[OnFire]

Sounds like MJ was a bitch, taking a ****ing cheap shot then everyone grabbing the other guy to break it up...

[Ariza4three]

MJ is such a ****ing beta :roll:
If he would have done that shit to me, I GUARANTEE you he would have been knocked the **** out. I don't **** around, period.

[mehyaM24]

jordan was a good teammate, but if anything, this re-enforces why phil made pippen TEAM captain and the fundamental leader of the team. notice horace giving dude HUGE praise, talking about scottie's leadership in 1994, and being one call away from potentially another title? (they matched up well with the pacers and rockets)

jordan's so-called leadership was that of a bad cop. lots of pouting and bitching, but no results, hence his 1-9 record in the playoffs prior to phil jackson and pippen.

[Ariza4three]

jordan was a good teammate, but if anything, this re-enforces why phil made pippen TEAM captain and the fundamental leader of the team. notice horace giving dude HUGE praise, talking about scottie's leadership in 1994, and being one call away from potentially another title? (they matched up well with the pacers and rockets)

jordan's so-called leadership was that of a bad cop. lots of pouting and bitching, but no results, hence his 1-9 record in the playoffs prior to phil jackson and pippen.
:applause:

[Beastmode88]

MJ is such a ****ing beta :roll:
If he would have done that shit to me, I GUARANTEE you he would have been knocked the **** out. I don't **** around, period.

Internet tough guy. :sleeping

[poido123]

MJ is such a ****ing beta :roll:
If he would have done that shit to me, I GUARANTEE you he would have been knocked the **** out. I don't **** around, period.



An internet warrior, anime loving, 16 year old sissy boy living with his mum is going to knock MJ out?


I've heard it all. :oldlol:

[poido123]

jordan was a good teammate, but if anything, this re-enforces why phil made pippen TEAM captain and the fundamental leader of the team. notice horace giving dude HUGE praise, talking about scottie's leadership in 1994, and being one call away from potentially another title? (they matched up well with the pacers and rockets)

jordan's so-called leadership was that of a bad cop. lots of pouting and bitching, but no results, hence his 1-9 record in the playoffs prior to phil jackson and pippen.


Pouting and b.tching sounds a lot like your team hopping, choke artist hero. :oldlol:



Prior to Phil Jackson and Pippen? You mean like Pippen who came started his career slowly, but from playing with Michael became the player he was and later credited that to MJ Himself?

Or Phil Jackson who started with Michael as an inexperienced coach and wasn't the famed coach he's now known as until much later in the Piece after riding mike to 6 championships?


Too easy son :sleeping

[Ariza4three]

An internet warrior, anime loving, 16 year old sissy boy living with his mum is going to knock MJ out?


I've heard it all. :oldlol:
You heard it here son. MJ would NEVER **** with me on a court, gym, anywhere. Or his ass is getting knocked out.

[mehyaM24]

Prior to Phil Jackson and Pippen? You mean like Pippen who came into the league as a nobody, but from playing with Michael became the player he was and later credited that to MJ Himself?

Or Phil Jackson who started with Michael as an inexperienced coach and wasn't the famed coach he's now known as until much later in the Piece after riding mike to 6 championships?

no. i mean the pippen who was drafted and led the bulls to immediate success. the phil jackson who initiated the triangle offense, getting jordan to pass the ball and NOT just stat pad (see: triple double fiasco with doug collins), and play basketball that is conducive to winning.

the very season pippen was drafted, the bulls finally advanced out of the first round - and he was arguably the reason (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M79eJyW_T0M) for it.

[poido123]

You heard it here son. MJ would NEVER **** with me on a court, gym, anywhere. Or his ass is getting knocked out.


MJ knocks at Jameers door.

Jameers mum opens the door and MJ bends her over the sofa and unloads his nut inside her.


Jameer comes up the stairs from the basement and asks his mum who that was.


Jameers mum says it was MJ.

She said he read some kids post on Inside Hoops and wanted to destroy him.

Jameers mum took it raw from The GOAT to avoid her son getting ass whooped.

[mehyaM24]

MJ knocks at Jameers door.

Jameers mum opens the door and MJ bends her over the sofa and unloads his nut inside her.


Jameer comes up the stairs from the basement and asks his mum who that was.


Jameers mum says it was MJ.

He said he read some kids post on Inside Hoops and wanted to destroy him.

Jameers mum took it raw from The GOAT to avoid her son getting ass whooped.

:facepalm

[poido123]

no. i mean the pippen who was drafted and led the bulls to immediate success. the phil jackson who initiated the triangle offense, getting jordan to pass the ball and not just stat pad (see: triple double fiasco with doug collins) and play basketball that is conducive to winning.

the very season pippen was drafted, the bulls finally advanced out of the first round - and he was a arguably the reason (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M79eJyW_T0M) for it


It wasn't until pips fourth season in the league that the Bulls won their first championship.

By your logic, lebron won 2 championships playing with no one :oldlol:

You need help to win championships.

The difference is lebron goes around and asks for help from the best in the league to win. He has to have a super team to compete.

F.cking LOL at arguably the reason bulls won championships :oldlol:

[SugarHill]

MJ knocks at Jameers door.

Jameers mum opens the door and MJ bends her over the sofa and unloads his nut inside her.


Jameer comes up the stairs from the basement and asks his mum who that was.


Jameers mum says it was MJ.

He said he read some kids post on Inside Hoops and wanted to destroy him.

Jameers mum took it raw from The GOAT to avoid her son getting ass whooped.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/69/dgwn5.jpg

[Ariza4three]

MJ knocks at Jameers door.

Jameers mum opens the door and MJ bends her over the sofa and unloads his nut inside her.


Jameer comes up the stairs from the basement and asks his mum who that was.


Jameers mum says it was MJ.

She said he read some kids post on Inside Hoops and wanted to destroy him.

Jameers mum took it raw from The GOAT to avoid her son getting ass whooped.
http://giant.gfycat.com/SnoopyFrequentAmericanbobtail.gif

[guy]

Its interesting how much of a myth its become that Jordan was a "bad teammate." There's been more reports about Horace Grant having issues with Jordan then anyone else having issues with Jordan. If you read Jordan Rules, it seems like its Grant who had the most clashes with Jordan, and I believe it was Grant that supplied Sam Smith with most of the behind the scenes material that Smith didn't witness himself. Yet here he is talking about him with glowing admiration and basically saying he owes almost everything to Jordan. And I know we shouldn't expect him to talk badly about Jordan, but he didn't downplay anything and he kind of went out of his way to talk like that about him. Doesn't sound like a bad teammate at all. I'm pretty sure all the negative stories about Jordan's interactions with his teammates were true, but I highly doubt it was as big of a deal as it was made out to be, and it seems like overall he didn't have any serious problems with any of them. Phil himself said it, Jordan was able to adjust to the locker room and the different characteristics of his teammates, which helped make him such a great leader and this is something Kobe lacked, and it seems like he never developed.

People make way too much of a big deal out of Jordan hitting his teammates. It sounds like its way more the norm then people think. There was also a story about Hakeem hitting one of his teammates all because he wouldn't give him his "change". The Bad Boy Pistons talked about their being fights all the time. There was a story about Shaq attacking Brian Shaw after a game since Shaw was criticizing him and basically dragging him through the locker room. Big deal. Its a physical sport and these teammates are with each other every day for the majority of the year. Its understandable that that doesn't happen often now because of how easy it is to get to the public. But how could you expect that type of stuff NOT TO HAPPEN back then when it wasn't going to be widely reported?

And its also interesting how Grant talks about how much Jordan taught him and Pippen, especially about toughness. So many of the Jordan haters think its just bullshit propaganda and those guys would've ended up that way anyway, but it doesn't sound like it when you hear from coaches, other players, and journalists at the time, and more importantly Pippen and Grant themselves. And usually none of them, including Pippen and Grant, are asked specifically about Jordan molding those guys, but somehow they go out of their way and mention it. You don't ever hear Worthy or Scott, Parish or McHale, etc. talk about Magic, Bird, etc. like that.

And people think Jordan had nothing to do with them winning 55 games when he was gone? :oldlol: They would've never developed that way without him. Put Lebron, the guy who apparently never has any help no matter where goes, in Jordan's place, and there is no way with his passive leadership approach he would've been able to toughen up his teammates like Jordan did, not to mention his lesser ability to play off the ball wouldn't have enabled everyone else to get as involved in the offense, especially Pippen who probably wouldn't have blossomed and become a point forward like he did. Oh, and that's given if he even stuck around that long and waited for these guys to develop. If he then retired like Jordan or just left, which is more likely, before the 94 season, its highly unlikely that the Bulls are a 55 win team that season, more likely a high 30s/low 40s win team, a huge drop off. The ironic part would be all these idiotic Jordan haters/Lebron fans who really don't know much would be championing Lebron as a guy that drags scrubs to such higher levels and that that Bulls supporting cast of Pippen/Grant/etc. weren't all that good, as opposed to being considered all-time level great now.

[3ball]

MJ is such a ****ing beta :roll:
If he would have done that shit to me, I GUARANTEE you he would have been knocked the **** out. I don't **** around, period.


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/77a764560aa9ba77579484ea1c04302f.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/c965117e51ea53af09a731a437121aa1.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/71d8d06054ae2552cb5e845d9e55c615.gif


^^^^^ that's laimbeer that jordan is punching halfway across the court
.

[Nevaeh]

no. i mean the pippen who was drafted and led the bulls to immediate success. the phil jackson who initiated the triangle offense, getting jordan to pass the ball and NOT just stat pad (see: triple double fiasco with doug collins), and play basketball that is conducive to winning.

the very season pippen was drafted, the bulls finally advanced out of the first round - and he was arguably the reason (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M79eJyW_T0M) for it.


You've never watched an 80s-90s Bulls game in your life, if comments like this are anything to go by.

:oldlol:

[mehyaM24]

It wasn't until pips fourth season in the league that the Bulls won their first championship.

By your logic, lebron won 2 championships playing with no one :oldlol:

You need help to win championships.

The difference is lebron goes around and asks for help from the best in the league to win. He has to have a super team to compete.

F.cking LOL at arguably the reason bulls won championships :oldlol:

huh? i'm not talking about the bulls during their championship reign. please read what was posted and actually comprehend what is being said....

the year pippen was drafted, he was arguably the reason the bulls FINALLY advanced out of the first round (jordan was 1-9 in the playoffs prior).

[mehyaM24]

You've never watched an 80s-90s Bulls game in your life, if comments like this are anything to go by.

:oldlol:
so phil making pippen captain, and pippen being a great leader as per bill wennington, kerr, kukoc, and now horace grant is really just a conspiracy? propaganda to assassinate jordan's "legend"?

jordan mythologists are like religious zealots. :roll:

[Ariza4three]

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/77a764560aa9ba77579484ea1c04302f.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/c965117e51ea53af09a731a437121aa1.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/71d8d06054ae2552cb5e845d9e55c615.gif


^^^^^ that's laimbeer that jordan is punching halfway across the court
.
http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt190/Interminator_photos/0608_reggie_miller_1372452_flynet_e.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WJUg0pT.jpg

yeah, i'm ****ing terrified :roll: :roll:

[poido123]

huh? i'm not talking about the bulls during their championship runs. please read what was posted and actually comprehend what is being said....

the year pippen was drafted, he was arguably the reason the bulls FINALLY advanced out of the first round (jordan was 1-9 in the playoffs prior).


It's pointless arguing with someone who doesn't look at context.

Your feeble brain should be able to work out why. Jordan was a one man show with little help prior to pippen coming along.

Lebron never won shit until he got legit help.

And look what happened when jordan did finally get Help? Dominated.

One of if not the best playoffs record the game has seen. Lebron wished he had the playoffs resume jordan has.

[3ball]

the year pippen was drafted, he was arguably the reason the bulls FINALLY advanced out of the first round


The Bulls got out of the first round in 1988 because against the league's 5th ranked defense, Jordan averaged 45.2 PPG, 5.4 RPG, 4.8 APG, on 55.9% FG and 63.2% TS.

Otoh, Pippen averaged 5.2 PPG, 2.4 APG, 49% TS.

Jordan's lowest PPG in the playoffs against a top 5 defense was 27 PPG (out of the 17 series where he faced a top 5 defense).. http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10817035

[Nevaeh]

Its interesting how much of a myth its become that Jordan was a "bad teammate." There's been more reports about Horace Grant having issues with Jordan then anyone else having issues with Jordan. If you read Jordan Rules, it seems like its Grant who had the most clashes with Jordan, and I believe it was Grant that supplied Sam Smith with most of the behind the scenes material that Smith didn't witness himself. Yet here he is talking about him with glowing admiration and basically saying he owes almost everything to Jordan. And I know we shouldn't expect him to talk badly about Jordan, but he didn't downplay anything and he kind of went out of his way to talk like that about him. Doesn't sound like a bad teammate at all. I'm pretty sure all the negative stories about Jordan's interactions with his teammates were true, but I highly doubt it was as big of a deal as it was made out to be, and it seems like overall he didn't have any serious problems with any of them. Phil himself said it, Jordan was able to adjust to the locker room and the different characteristics of his teammates, which helped make him such a great leader and this is something Kobe lacked, and it seems like he never developed.



A lot of that has to do with maturity also, when you can look back on something after years have passed and say "You know what, it wasn't really all that bad". In the heat of the moment yes, things can piss you off big time, especially in your 20s like Grant , Pip and MJ were. But in the case of Grant, he now has his permanent place in NBA history, thanks to being part of the original 3-peat Bulls, something he'll telling his Grand kids about for years.

[mehyaM24]

The Bulls got out of the first round in 1988 because against the league's 5th ranked defense, Jordan averaged 45.2 PPG, 5.4 RPG, 4.8 APG, on 55.9% FG and 63.2% TS.

Otoh, Pippen averaged 5.2 PPG, 2.4 APG, 49% TS.

Jordan's lowest PPG in the playoffs against a top 5 defense was 27 PPG (out of the 17 series where he faced a top 5 defense).. http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10817035

pippen elimination game, closes out cavs (game 5) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M79eJyW_T0M)

we see pippen, not jordan, closing out the cavaliers and finally advancing to the second round. just as i said.

[mehyaM24]

It's pointless arguing with someone who doesn't look at context.

Your feeble brain should be able to work out why. Jordan was a one man show with little help prior to pippen coming along.

Lebron never won shit until he got legit help.

And look what happened when jordan did finally get Help? Dominated.

One of if not the best playoffs record the game has seen. Lebron wished he had the playoffs resume jordan has.

lebron took his team to the finals with less help than jordan had throughout the 80s. i'm all for context - but you're simply making excuses (this is what fanatics do).

FACT: pippen was the leader and captain of the bulls

FACT: pippen DID steer the ship, finally leading the bulls past the cavs into the second round

FACT: before pippen, jordan was a meager 1-9 in the playoffs

[3ball]

pippen elimination game, closes out cavs (game 5) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M79eJyW_T0M)

we see pippen, not jordan, closing out the cavaliers and finally advancing to the second round. just as i said.
scottie with 24 pts and 6 assists in the closeout game and fouled out, so he wasn't there at the end... jordan had 39 points and 6 assists and finished the game.

again, The Bulls got out of the first round in 1988 because against the league's 5th ranked defense, Jordan averaged 45.2 PPG, 5.4 RPG, 4.8 APG, on 55.9% FG and 63.2% TS.

Otoh, despite his decent closeout game, Pippen averaged 5.2 PPG, 2.4 APG, 49% TS for the series (so he was abysmal before that).

Jordan's lowest PPG in the playoffs against a top 5 defense was 27 PPG (out of the 17 series where he faced a top 5 defense).. http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10817035

[Nevaeh]

so phil making pippen captain, and pippen being a great leader as per bill wennington, kerr, kukoc, and now horace grant is really just a conspiracy? propaganda to assassinate jordan's "legend"?

jordan mythologists are like religious zealots. :roll:

I didn't say anything about how players responded to Pip's leadership. I only responded to this:


i mean the pippen who was drafted and led the bulls to immediate success.


And you have the audacity to actually use the word "mythologist" after this line?

:oldlol:

[mehyaM24]

scottie with 24 pts and 6 assists in the closeout game and fouled out, so he wasn't there at the end... jordan had 39 points and 6 assists and finished the game.
you're just proving you didn't see the game, or witness it live. scottie pippen fouled out, with the game already out of reach. pippen had the most points, assists and rebounds in that 4th quarter - hence, closing out the cavaliers and leading the bulls to the second round.

come with facts or don't respond at all. :facepalm:

[mehyaM24]

I didn't say anything about how players responded to Pip's leadership. I only responded to this:



And you have the audacity to actually use the word "mythologist" after this line?

:oldlol:
what exactly are you arguing? all that implies is, scottie led the bulls - which he did, evidenced from the bulls players and head coach.

[97 bulls]

Its interesting how much of a myth its become that Jordan was a "bad teammate." There's been more reports about Horace Grant having issues with Jordan then anyone else having issues with Jordan. If you read Jordan Rules, it seems like its Grant who had the most clashes with Jordan, and I believe it was Grant that supplied Sam Smith with most of the behind the scenes material that Smith didn't witness himself. Yet here he is talking about him with glowing admiration and basically saying he owes almost everything to Jordan. And I know we shouldn't expect him to talk badly about Jordan, but he didn't downplay anything and he kind of went out of his way to talk like that about him. Doesn't sound like a bad teammate at all. I'm pretty sure all the negative stories about Jordan's interactions with his teammates were true, but I highly doubt it was as big of a deal as it was made out to be, and it seems like overall he didn't have any serious problems with any of them. Phil himself said it, Jordan was able to adjust to the locker room and the different characteristics of his teammates, which helped make him such a great leader and this is something Kobe lacked, and it seems like he never developed.
I agree. Anyone that has played in organized athletics knows that teammates fight like siblings. It doesn't make Jordan a bad teammate.



And its also interesting how Grant talks about how much Jordan taught him and Pippen, especially about toughness. So many of the Jordan haters think its just bullshit propaganda and those guys would've ended up that way anyway, but it doesn't sound like it when you hear from coaches, other players, and journalists at the time, and more importantly Pippen and Grant themselves. And usually none of them, including Pippen and Grant, are asked specifically about Jordan molding those guys, but somehow they go out of their way and mention it.
I gotta stop you here. Grant said Jordan was a great leader. He never said he "created", or "molded", or "made" Grant who he is. Even when they were discussing Pippen. Grant alluded to Jordans record without Pip. Something you conveniently omit.

He also said Jordan showed him what it takes to compete in the NBA. Which is nothing new. Players do that all the time. Byron Scott was Kobe Bryants mentor. You gonna credit Scott with Kobe developing into the player he became? Thats nonsense.

Even more, Jordan credits Pippen for the success he had in the NBA. Just like Grant did. But again, your agenda wont allow you to admit that. The fact is that without his teammates, Jordan would have no championships or MVPs. He would be looked at as a Gervin or Wilkins. His success as far as winning is what makes Jordan Jordan.


You don't ever hear Worthy or Scott, Parish or McHale, etc. talk about Magic, Bird, etc. like that.
Because Magic and Bird fans arent as the unreasonable as Jordan fans. But im sure you've heard people say that Magic saved Kareems career.


And people think Jordan had nothing to do with them winning 55 games when he was gone? :oldlol: They would've never developed that way without him. Put Lebron, the guy who apparently never has any help no matter where goes, in Jordan's place, and there is no way with his passive leadership approach he would've been able to toughen up his teammates like Jordan did, not to mention his lesser ability to play off the ball wouldn't have enabled everyone else to get as involved in the offense, especially Pippen who probably wouldn't have blossomed and become a point forward like he did. Oh, and that's given if he even stuck around that long and waited for these guys to develop. If he then retired like Jordan or just left, which is more likely, before the 94 season, its highly unlikely that the Bulls are a 55 win team that season, more likely a high 30s/low 40s win team, a huge drop off. The ironic part would be all these idiotic Jordan haters/Lebron fans who really don't know much would be championing Lebron as a guy that drags scrubs to such higher levels and that that Bulls supporting cast of Pippen/Grant/etc. weren't all that good, as opposed to being considered all-time level great now.
Dude. No one is saying that. What the Bulls did in 94 is used in the same way Grant did.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Sounded like Mike was being a bit sensitive here. Cool interview nonetheless. :applause:

[juju151111]

you're just proving you didn't see the game, or witness it live. scottie pippen fouled out, with the game already out of reach. pippen had the most points, assists and rebounds in that 4th quarter - hence, closing out the cavaliers and leading the bulls to the second round.

come with facts or don't respond at all. :facepalm:
He didn't lead the bulls past the Cavs Mj did. Are you retarded?:wtf:

[andgar923]

Its interesting how much of a myth its become that Jordan was a "bad teammate." There's been more reports about Horace Grant having issues with Jordan then anyone else having issues with Jordan. If you read Jordan Rules, it seems like its Grant who had the most clashes with Jordan, and I believe it was Grant that supplied Sam Smith with most of the behind the scenes material that Smith didn't witness himself. Yet here he is talking about him with glowing admiration and basically saying he owes almost everything to Jordan. And I know we shouldn't expect him to talk badly about Jordan, but he didn't downplay anything and he kind of went out of his way to talk like that about him. Doesn't sound like a bad teammate at all. I'm pretty sure all the negative stories about Jordan's interactions with his teammates were true, but I highly doubt it was as big of a deal as it was made out to be, and it seems like overall he didn't have any serious problems with any of them. Phil himself said it, Jordan was able to adjust to the locker room and the different characteristics of his teammates, which helped make him such a great leader and this is something Kobe lacked, and it seems like he never developed.

People make way too much of a big deal out of Jordan hitting his teammates. It sounds like its way more the norm then people think. There was also a story about Hakeem hitting one of his teammates all because he wouldn't give him his "change". The Bad Boy Pistons talked about their being fights all the time. There was a story about Shaq attacking Brian Shaw after a game since Shaw was criticizing him and basically dragging him through the locker room. Big deal. Its a physical sport and these teammates are with each other every day for the majority of the year. Its understandable that that doesn't happen often now because of how easy it is to get to the public. But how could you expect that type of stuff NOT TO HAPPEN back then when it wasn't going to be widely reported?

And its also interesting how Grant talks about how much Jordan taught him and Pippen, especially about toughness. So many of the Jordan haters think its just bullshit propaganda and those guys would've ended up that way anyway, but it doesn't sound like it when you hear from coaches, other players, and journalists at the time, and more importantly Pippen and Grant themselves. And usually none of them, including Pippen and Grant, are asked specifically about Jordan molding those guys, but somehow they go out of their way and mention it. You don't ever hear Worthy or Scott, Parish or McHale, etc. talk about Magic, Bird, etc. like that.

And people think Jordan had nothing to do with them winning 55 games when he was gone? :oldlol: They would've never developed that way without him. Put Lebron, the guy who apparently never has any help no matter where goes, in Jordan's place, and there is no way with his passive leadership approach he would've been able to toughen up his teammates like Jordan did, not to mention his lesser ability to play off the ball wouldn't have enabled everyone else to get as involved in the offense, especially Pippen who probably wouldn't have blossomed and become a point forward like he did. Oh, and that's given if he even stuck around that long and waited for these guys to develop. If he then retired like Jordan or just left, which is more likely, before the 94 season, its highly unlikely that the Bulls are a 55 win team that season, more likely a high 30s/low 40s win team, a huge drop off. The ironic part would be all these idiotic Jordan haters/Lebron fans who really don't know much would be championing Lebron as a guy that drags scrubs to such higher levels and that that Bulls supporting cast of Pippen/Grant/etc. weren't all that good, as opposed to being considered all-time level great now.
MJ's @ssholeness is greatly exaggerated indeed.

Even the often envious Pip bows down to him. I've yet to see a teammate diss him in the slightest.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Horace had resentment for Mike, fed Sam Smith all his garbage for the Jordan Rules to sensationalize the first psuedo negative perception of Mike not being the golden boy he was projected. All it did was tell the reality of how competitive MJ was. Which actually made him even more intriguing.

It's clear as day Horace admires, respects, and conceits MJ "buttered his career bread" ... MJ implemented his will power, mental strength on Pippen and Grant. He molded those guys specifically. They both admit it.

And Horace verbatim admits Jordan is one of the greatest leaders ever.

Tought him and Pippen mental toughness. Which allowed their basketball abilities to flourish even under the most intense, pressure packed situations. Glad Horace has perspective.

MJ w/ second unit v.s. Scottie / Horace w/ first unit.

That would help breed, and put Jordan's competitive juices on steroids. Great players want to prove themselves, even against all odds. My coaches did that with me too. I do the same things with the best player on the teams that I coach.

I can picture Blatt doing this w/ LeBron and James complaining he doesn't get to play with the starters as opposed to being so competitive he'd want to get pissed and prove he could take the bench players and still beat you.

[poido123]

lebron took his team to the finals with less help than jordan had throughout the 80s. i'm all for context - but you're simply making excuses (this is what fanatics do).

FACT: pippen was the leader and captain of the bulls

FACT: pippen DID steer the ship, finally leading the bulls past the cavs into the second round

FACT: before pippen, jordan was a meager 1-9 in the playoffs


Fact: you're a dumb Trolling moron. :applause:

[guy]

I gotta stop you here. Grant said Jordan was a great leader. He never said he "created", or "molded", or "made" Grant who he is. Even when they were discussing Pippen. Grant alluded to Jordans record without Pip. Something you conveniently omit.

"Molded" isn't the same thing as "created" or "made".

And I didn't omit anything that mattered to the point of my post, because nothing I said conflicted with anything he said.



He also said Jordan showed him what it takes to compete in the NBA. Which is nothing new. Players do that all the time. Byron Scott was Kobe Bryants mentor. You gonna credit Scott with Kobe developing into the player he became? Thats nonsense.

Is it not true that you don't hear anyone i.e. coaches, journalists, other players, and the players themselves that say these type of things about certain players to the same degree that they say it about Jordan? It really doesn't seem like your typical mentoring of a young player.



Even more, Jordan credits Pippen for the success he had in the NBA. Just like Grant did. But again, your agenda wont allow you to admit that. The fact is that without his teammates, Jordan would have no championships or MVPs. He would be looked at as a Gervin or Wilkins. His success as far as winning is what makes Jordan Jordan.

Well sure Pippen helped. I've admitted that plenty of times in the past and nowhere did I say he didn't in my post.

MVPs? So if it wasn't for Pippen and Grant's 20 mpg each in their rookie years, Jordan wouldn't have won that first MVP and any MVP after that? :oldlol:

It is highly unlikely Jordan would've never won a title even if his situation was different and he never got to play with Pippen, Grant, or whoever. He was way too good, too talented, too determined, etc. for that to happen and it would've been one of the biggest mishandlings in history for a GM to not be able to build a championship team around someone like that. Sure, maybe number of titles and the difficulty in winning those titles would be different, but its highly unlikely he wins 0. Its not a coincidence that the best and most complete players in history happen to have led teams to multiple titles and the ones that didn't had some significant flaws to them. Even if the highly unlikely possibility of Jordan never winning a title would've occurred, he wouldn't have been looked at like Nique or Gervin. More likely he would've looked like someone like Oscar who's still considered a top 10-15 player by most people.



Because Magic and Bird fans arent as the unreasonable as Jordan fans. But im sure you've heard people say that Magic saved Kareems career.

Who said anything about their fans? I was talking about their teammates.



Dude. No one is saying that. What the Bulls did in 94 is used in the same way Grant did.

Really? Where have you been? You've never heard many people say Jordan had so much more help then Lebron or whoever and cite 1994 as the evidence as if the situations are really that black and white to come to such a conclusion? Are you serious?

[insidious301]

I agree. Anyone that has played in organized athletics knows that teammates fight like siblings. It doesn't make Jordan a bad teammate.



I gotta stop you here. Grant said Jordan was a great leader. He never said he "created", or "molded", or "made" Grant who he is. Even when they were discussing Pippen. Grant alluded to Jordans record without Pip. Something you conveniently omit.

He also said Jordan showed him what it takes to compete in the NBA. Which is nothing new. Players do that all the time. Byron Scott was Kobe Bryants mentor. You gonna credit Scott with Kobe developing into the player he became? Thats nonsense.

Even more, Jordan credits Pippen for the success he had in the NBA. Just like Grant did. But again, your agenda wont allow you to admit that. The fact is that without his teammates, Jordan would have no championships or MVPs. He would be looked at as a Gervin or Wilkins. His success as far as winning is what makes Jordan Jordan.


Because Magic and Bird fans arent as the unreasonable as Jordan fans. But im sure you've heard people say that Magic saved Kareems career.


Dude. No one is saying that. What the Bulls did in 94 is used in the same way Grant did.

These are astute observations. Very good stuff. As far as Jordan's "mythology" goes, I've always maintained he was merely a product of his time, filling the void Bird and Magic left, except with Nike. The league looked to seize upward and find anyone, specifically a superstar with elite athleticism.

Think about it...as great as Magic and Bird were, you can literally count their best plays on your hand. Same thing with Erving.

Mike was a quickly rising factor in the shoe and brand game, and thus making sure all the good devoured the bad in his career.

[97 bulls]

"Molded" isn't the same thing as "created" or "made".
Lol. It follows along the same line. A reasonable person would say he helped develope aspects of Pippens game. But it was already there. The same way Pippen did with him at times. What he (Jordan) did for his teammates was give confidence in the opportunity to win every night because they had the best player on their team. Neither Pippen nor Grant were these lumps of clay that Jordan took and made into basketball players. He didn't teach Pip how to be a Point Forward, or Grant how to bang down low and rebound. As has been said before, there have been many guys that he could've done this for if he were capable.


And I didn't omit anything that mattered to the point of my post, because nothing I said conflicted with anything he said.
Sure you did. Its classic confirmation bias. A person without an agenda would've, noted that he also said that Jordan needed Pippen and that Pippen was great in his own right.



Is it not true that you don't hear anyone i.e. coaches, journalists, other players, and the players themselves that say these type of things about certain players to the same degree that they say it about Jordan? It really doesn't seem like your typical mentoring of a young player.
No it's not. No one is arrogant enough to say that their basketball success can only be credited to themselves. I've seen Jordan, Pippen and now Grant all say they needed each other to do what they did. Only Jordan zealots say that he could've or better yet wouldve won under any circumstance.




Well sure Pippen helped. I've admitted that plenty of times in the past and nowhere did I say he didn't in my post.
Again, what you did was try to confirm your stance that without Jordan, Pippen wouldn't have been the player he became, but a lesser player.


MVPs? So if it wasn't for Pippen and Grant's 20 mpg each in their rookie years, Jordan wouldn't have won that first MVP and any MVP after that? :oldlol:
If he were on bad teams, no he would not have won a bunch of MVPs (meaning multiple) and obviously no championships.


It is highly unlikely Jordan would've never won a title even if his situation was different and he never got to play with Pippen, Grant, or whoever. He was way too good, too talented, too determined, etc. for that to happen and it would've been one of the biggest mishandlings in history for a GM to not be able to build a championship team around someone like that. Sure, maybe number of titles and the difficulty in winning those titles would be different, but its highly unlikely he wins 0.
This isn't my point. I agree with this statement. My point is he needs talented players around him to do so.


Its not a coincidence that the best and most complete players in history happen to have led teams to multiple titles and the ones that didn't had some significant flaws to them.
Its also not a coincidence that the players that have won multiple titles, have had multiple Hall of Fame type players playing alongside them.


Even if the highly unlikely possibility of Jordan never winning a title would've occurred, he wouldn't have been looked at like Nique or Gervin. More likely he would've looked like someone like Oscar who's still considered a top 10-15 player by most people.
We will never know. What we do know is that they all needed each other.




Who said anything about their fans? I was talking about their teammates.
And again, they all needed each other. Thats the prevailing theme on all teams.



Really? Where have you been? You've never heard many people say Jordan had so much more help then Lebron or whoever and cite 1994 as the evidence as if the situations are really that black and white to come to such a conclusion? Are you serious?
Sure I have read those statements from the trolls. My reply is why do Jordans teammates contributions need to be undermined? They're right. Jordan had a great team built around him. Theres so many replies to a Lebron James fan that you could use, why doestit always need to be a matter of his teammates being denigrated? Jordan never lost with homecourt. Has James? James has played in an Eastern Conference that is far worse than it was in Jordan's day. Sure the Bulls won 55 games without Jordan, but the won 72 with him. Thats a big improvement especially seeing hiw hard it is to go from very good to great. Thats almost a 20 game improvement. Give or take hiw much of an improvement you feel Rodman is over Grant. Look at 95. The Bulls were on Pace to win 43 games? With a Rusty Jordan, their win pace over a full season was 57 I believe. And again, its a hellbof a lot easier to take a team from really bad to decent. Which is what James did. One could go further if they just peel back the onion so to speak.

I just don't see why a Jordan zealots argument has to center around degrading his teammates.

[guy]

Lol. It follows along the same line. A reasonable person would say he helped develope aspects of Pippens game. But it was already there. The same way Pippen did with him at times. What he (Jordan) did for his teammates was give confidence in the opportunity to win every night because they had the best player on their team. Neither Pippen nor Grant were these lumps of clay that Jordan took and made into basketball players. He didn't teach Pip how to be a Point Forward, or Grant how to bang down low and rebound. As has been said before, there have been many guys that he could've done this for if he were capable.

Yes, he gave them confidence. And as the best player in the league that was a huge boost they probably don't get anywhere else. That's not something that wasn't valuable and something they could've gotten anywhere else. He also instilled toughness in them, which they all admit.

Maybe he would've done this for other players. He only played 2 full seasons before Pippen and Grant came along. They were the most talented, and disciplined players that came along though by that time. No one ever said Jordan could've done that with everyone.

No one called them lumps of clay. He molded them, as in he influenced them, maybe moreso then any other all-time great did with their top teammates given how so many describe their relationship.



Sure you did. Its classic confirmation bias. A person without an agenda would've, noted that he also said that Jordan needed Pippen and that Pippen was great in his own right.

Why? It had nothing to do with what I was talking about. Should I have summarized the whole interview then? Talk about Grant's comparison of Jordan and Kobe? His mention of Charles Oakley? His mention of Bill Laimbeer? His opinion on the current Cavs? His opinion on the current Knicks? You don't seem to know what confirmation bias is.



No it's not. No one is arrogant enough to say that their basketball success can only be credited to themselves. I've seen Jordan, Pippen and now Grant all say they needed each other to do what they did. Only Jordan zealots say that he could've or better yet wouldve won under any circumstance.

If what I asked isn't true, bring me good examples disapproving it.

Yes in that situation, they needed each other, at least Jordan and Pippen did. It doesn't mean in any other situation they couldn't have won.

I never said he would've won under any circumstance. That's mathematically impossible. I say its highly unlikely he would've never encountered a circumstance where he would've won. He was that good and that determined, much moreso then other players I would say that would apply to as well like Duncan, Shaq, Lebron, etc.



Again, what you did was try to confirm your stance that without Jordan, Pippen wouldn't have been the player he became, but a lesser player.

He probably wouldn't have. What's the likelihood he'd be in that great of a situation where he got to develop? Maybe still a great player, but probably not who he was. He'd tell you that himself.



If he were on bad teams, no he would not have won a bunch of MVPs (meaning multiple) and obviously no championships.


This isn't my point. I agree with this statement. My point is he needs talented players around him to do so.

So does everyone. If you agree with that statement, then your first statement is pretty much irrelevant and isn't really worth arguing. Seriously, who was on bad teams for literally their whole career?



Its also not a coincidence that the players that have won multiple titles, have had multiple Hall of Fame type players playing alongside them.

Almost every team that wins that much is going to have multiple HOFers regardless because other players will get attributed with much of that success even if they may not deserve it. The cause and effect isn't always the same in those situations. For example, if the mid 90s Suns won multiple titles, Kevin Johnson is probably a HOFer, but it would've required either Barkley to be a better player, meaning KJ isn't really anymore deserving then otherwise, or it would've required KJ to actually be a better player, meaning he was more deserving then otherwise. Shit, and at least KJ was a multiple time all-star and All-NBA players. You could probably say the same thing about lesser players like Terry Porter, John Starks, Detlef Scrhempf, Jeff Hornacek, etc. So this isn't really saying much.

I'm sure I asked you this before, but line up all the consensus top 11 players and ignore the accolades and compare them to other all time greats. They all have the greatest combination of individual skillsets and intangibles ever.




We will never know. What we do know is that they all needed each other.


Well that's cute, but sorry we do know. Jordan was getting GOAT talks even before he won a title. Nique and Gervin weren't getting anything close. He would've definitely been considered much greater then those guys regardless.



And again, they all needed each other. Thats the prevailing theme on all teams.

Some of your responses have gone so far from what was originally said you don't even know what you're arguing.



Sure I have read those statements from the trolls. My reply is why do Jordans teammates contributions need to be undermined? They're right. Jordan had a great team built around him. Theres so many replies to a Lebron James fan that you could use, why doestit always need to be a matter of his teammates being denigrated? Jordan never lost with homecourt. Has James? James has played in an Eastern Conference that is far worse than it was in Jordan's day. Sure the Bulls won 55 games without Jordan, but the won 72 with him. Thats a big improvement especially seeing hiw hard it is to go from very good to great. Thats almost a 20 game improvement. Give or take hiw much of an improvement you feel Rodman is over Grant. Look at 95. The Bulls were on Pace to win 43 games? With a Rusty Jordan, their win pace over a full season was 57 I believe. And again, its a hellbof a lot easier to take a team from really bad to decent. Which is what James did. One could go further if they just peel back the onion so to speak.

I just don't see why a Jordan zealots argument has to center around degrading his teammates.

Where am I degrading his teammates? I never said Pippen deserved less credit for what happened in 94 just cause he had been under Jordan's wing for years before that. I never said Pippen and Grant deserved less credit for what they became in general just because Jordan helped them get there. That doesn't matter. We don't judge people on a curve based on who they learned from.

All I said was the whole "Lebron's teammates were so much worse then Jordan's teammates and 1994 proves that" argument, which has become the most popular argument, is incredibly flawed cause it doesn't tell the whole story. Most of Lebron's value is on-court production, not much of anything else i.e. leadership i.e. mentoring teammates, setting high expectations for teammates, running famously intense practices, relinquishing certain responsibilities, etc, which is a big reason why when he's off the court his teams take such a dip. Put in the same position, his teammates probably don't develop the same, and they won't be as successful without Lebron as they were without Jordan. Not sure what the problem is. I mean, do you honestly think everything is just the exact same???

[andgar923]

without MJ, Pip and Grant are not remembered.

Yeah I said it, go suck a fat d*ck if you wanna cry about it.

[Solid Snake]

LeBron got thrown 30 feet by Nazr Mohammed and Wasn't LeBron about to get his shit pushed in by mario chalmers but half the team had to hold "rio" back:oldlol: **** OUT OF HERE CLOWN

AND YOU READ THE STORY MF!THAT *****'S KNEES "WOBBLED" HE WAS DAMN NEAR KNOCKED OUT ON HIS FEET.You try jordan and he's running in your shit point blank period.#ALPHAAS****

Wow you sound like an ignorant 14 year old. Knocked out on his feet? As opposed to WHAT ELSE? Short of an MMA fight, what OTHER kind of knockout do you see in an unsanctioned street fight??

[mehyaM24]

Fact: you're a dumb Trolling moron. :applause:
facts >>> red-herrings

:confusedshrug:

[97 bulls]

Yes, he gave them confidence. And as the best player in the league that was a huge boost they probably don't get anywhere else. That's not something that wasn't valuable and something they could've gotten anywhere else. He also instilled toughness in them, which they all admit.
Please show me where either uttered the words that Jordan made them tough.



No one called them lumps of clay. He molded them, as in he influenced them, maybe moreso then any other all-time great did with their top teammates given how so many describe their relationship.
I've never seen anyone of importance, meaning peers and coaches utter this line of thinking. Only Jordan fans and a few sportswriters.




Why? It had nothing to do with what I was talking about. Should I have summarized the whole interview then? Talk about Grant's comparison of Jordan and Kobe? His mention of Charles Oakley? His mention of Bill Laimbeer? His opinion on the current Cavs? His opinion on the current Knicks? You don't seem to know what confirmation bias is.
No. Stick to your point. You feel Grant confirmed you're stance of how important Michael Jordan was to their abilities. But not acknowledging that he also alluded to Pippen and what he did without Jordan when all Grant was doing was showing that Pippen was great in his own right. Which is what many have stated to you. I bet you Grant would be offended if you were to tell him that the only reason for the Bulls success in 94 was Jordan.



If what I asked isn't true, bring me good examples disapproving it.
Disproving what?


Yes in that situation, they needed each other, at least Jordan and Pippen did. It doesn't mean in any other situation they couldn't have won.
Right. And the same goes for Jordan. That's my point.


I never said he would've won under any circumstance. That's mathematically impossible. I say its highly unlikely he would've never encountered a circumstance where he would've won. He was that good and that determined, much moreso then other players I would say that would apply to as well like Duncan, Shaq, Lebron, etc.
Fair enough. I agree.




He probably wouldn't have. What's the likelihood he'd be in that great of a situation where he got to develop? Maybe still a great player, but probably not who he was. He'd tell you that himself.
So you speak for Pippen now? When someone said he didn't win without Jordan, I remember his reply being something along the lines that Jordan never won anything without him as well. If he agreed with your sentiment, why respond in such a way? And Grant echoed the same thing in this interview.




So does everyone. If you agree with that statement, then your first statement is pretty much irrelevant and isn't really worth arguing. Seriously, who was on bad teams for literally their whole career?
It takes a whole lot more than that to win championships. Just because you're on a good team doesn't mean you automatically win a championship muchh less multiple.




Almost every team that wins that much is going to have multiple HOFers regardless because other players will get attributed with much of that success even if they may not deserve it. The cause and effect isn't always the same in those situations. For example, if the mid 90s Suns won multiple titles, Kevin Johnson is probably a HOFer, but it would've required either Barkley to be a better player, meaning KJ isn't really anymore deserving then otherwise, or it would've required KJ to actually be a better player, meaning he was more deserving then otherwise. Shit, and at least KJ was a multiple time all-star and All-NBA players. You could probably say the same thing about lesser players like Terry Porter, John Starks, Detlef Scrhempf, Jeff Hornacek, etc. So this isn't really saying much.
So youre telling me that guys like KJ, Terry Porter, etc were as good as Pippen, Mchale and Worthy?


I'm sure I asked you this before, but line up all the consensus top 11 players and ignore the accolades and compare them to other all time greats. They all have the greatest combination of individual skillsets and intangibles ever.
Never asked me. Jordan, James, Shaq, Wilt, and Jabaar are the only guys I feel qualify for what youre getting at. As far as talent, I see no difference between a guy like Scottie Pippen and Magic Johnson. Especially offensively. Magic was the better passer, Pippen was the better defender. Their scoring was similar as was their rebounding




Well that's cute, but sorry we do know. Jordan was getting GOAT talks even before he won a title.
He was? I seem to remember him being called a selfish ballhog and a loser.


Where am I degrading his teammates? I never said Pippen deserved less credit for what happened in 94 just cause he had been under Jordan's wing for years before that. I never said Pippen and Grant deserved less credit for what they became in general just because Jordan helped them get there. That doesn't matter. We don't judge people on a curve based on who they learned from.
It seems as if that judgement is applied to Pippen and Grant.

All I said was the whole "Lebron's teammates were so much worse then Jordan's teammates and 1994 proves that" argument, which has become the most popular argument, is incredibly flawed cause it doesn't tell the whole story. Most of Lebron's value is on-court production, not much of anything else i.e. leadership i.e. mentoring teammates, setting high expectations for teammates, running famously intense practices, relinquishing certain responsibilities, etc, which is a big reason why when he's off the court his teams take such a dip. Put in the same position, his teammates probably don't develop the same, and they won't be as successful without Lebron as they were without Jordan. Not sure what the problem is. I mean, do you honestly think everything is just the exact same???[/QUOTE]
Because there was nothing that showed me to be the case. Jordan had great teammates and leave it at that. I mean damn.....How many teammates did Jordan have during his career and as a GM? Why has he only been able to make Pippen and Grant the players they became?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Jordan's Playoff Series v.s. '86 Celtics (GOAT level team)

or

LeBron's Finals Run v.s. 2007 Spurs (Weak East)

It's a matter of preference, both are impressive for equally different reasons. Same age. Both had historic games. Both of their supporting casts were garbage, LeBron's probably slightly better relative to the rest of the league and especially within his own conference.

Jordan's performance came against literally one of the five best teams ever. Dominated individually but got swept. LeBron had a great game in Detroit, great run for his age, but played really poorly in the Finals getting swept.

But there is NO comparison when it comes to what MJ did with the 1989 Bulls compared to LeBron's 2007 run.

[senelcoolidge]

What did happen to Lebradford Smith?

I remember him and I kind of remember that game they were talking about. Smith was a very athletic combo guard. Not really a point guard and not really a good shooter. He didn't stick in the league that long. He only lasted like 3 seasons. He played in the CBA and Europe also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouI12Eg43KQ
Labradford flying!!!

[97 bulls]

Heres a video of James Worthy talking about how Magic taught him his role on the team.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB0QtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DKp_ uW302YTU&ei=uqzNVLGQLYzcoATFwoGoDQ&usg=AFQjCNGdF6AuPhHGzISLfyBNpmWHbM5Y2w&sig2=6SU0jqkW_QGZUbT2P1Iybw

[Young X]

Jordan's Playoff Series v.s. '86 Celtics (GOAT level team)

or

LeBron's Finals Run v.s. 2007 Spurs (Weak East)

It's a matter of preference, both are impressive for equally different reasons. Same age. Both had historic games. Both of their supporting casts were garbage, LeBron's probably slightly better relative to the rest of the league and especially within his own conference.

Jordan's performance came against literally one of the five best teams ever. Dominated individually but got swept. LeBron had a great game in Detroit, great run for his age, but played really poorly in the Finals getting swept.

But there is NO comparison when it comes to what MJ did with the 1989 Bulls compared to LeBron's 2007 run.Jordan's 1989 run doesn't get talked about enough; he almost single handedly willed a bad/below average squad past two clearly superior teams and almost upset one of the most stacked teams ever in the 1989 Pistons (Bulls were the only team to beat them in the playoffs).

[SamuraiSWISH]

Jordan's 1989 run doesn't get talked about enough; he almost single handedly willed a bad/below average squad past two clearly superior teams and almost upset one of the most stacked teams ever in the 1989 Pistons (only team to beat them in the playoffs).
Gave that Pistons team their ONLY losses of the playoffs. With green Pippen, Grant, and bums. An experienced Laker team, even with hobbled Magic didn't even give that Bad Boys team a single loss, let alone two. SMH @ MJ not elevating underdogs.

:facepalm

[mehyaM24]

97 bulls with great posts. thanks for the knowledge - and will rep when i can.

[Straight_Ballin]

2 haymakers to a guy not expecting it, and MJ still couldn't drop him... chit straight up embarassing, not quite as embarassing as being called a small dicked bitch by Madonna, but still pretty embarassing. :lol :roll:

And at the end of the day he still makes Bron look like a colluding beta. Man it must suck to have to convince yourself that being a fan of Bron present day was as good as being a fan of Jordan in the 90's. You wouldn't know tho, because you haven't lived long enough to have an opinion on the subject that can even be taken seriously! :lol

[Young X]

Gave that Pistons team their ONLY losses of the playoffs. With green Pippen, Grant, and bums. An experienced Laker team, even with hobbled Magic didn't even give that Bad Boys team a single loss, let alone two. SMH @ MJ not elevating underdogs.

:facepalmBulls had a small chance of beating Detroit too if Laimbeer didn't elbow Pippen in his head in game 6 of the series. Crazy how two CHI/DET series were affected by Pippen head injuries in elimination games.

btw ISH won't allow me to rep you: You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to SamuraiSWISH again. :biggums: