Michael Jordan and other players admit Zones are harder to score

[rlsmooth775]

All on video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM_eCnTNt1Q

[navy]

Didnt watch. Inb4 3ball spam.

[mehyaM24]

comment on youtube:

Any comments players or coaches say about zone or toughness is propaganda to keep the 90s relevant. If Gary Payton can hold mike to 40% alone, imagine the 04 Pistons or 08 celtics 13 Spurs zone that shut down every superstar those years. I don't see any perimeter player in NBA history dominating those 3 teams.

^^^ nothing new here.

i've been preaching this for a LONG time... defenses are just better now. point blank. nothing against jordan, but he WOULD struggle verse the pistons and celtics, as i have continuously said.

sophisticated and skilled defense >>> more physical, but less efficient ones

[J Shuttlesworth]

Shit's on NBA TV and nobody uploaded it to YouTube in HD? Shitty video with a cell phone? :facepalm

[rlsmooth775]

Shit's on NBA TV and nobody uploaded it to YouTube in HD? Shitty video with a cell phone? :facepalm

It gets better

[J Shuttlesworth]

It gets better
At what point in the video does MJ say zones are harder?

[rlsmooth775]

At what point in the video does MJ say zones are harder?

At 2:14

[deja vu]

Zone defense is such a pussified tactic, it was only brought to the NBA because the US struggled in international competitions because of their lack of familiarity with it. Should have left it to Euro basketball who are shit at man defense.

[mehyaM24]

At 2:14
realistically, you can't play zone in the nba (not the zones we see in college), but even the pseudo-zone defenses and box and one traps that masquerade as zones are defensively efficient, and superior to your basic man to man with help (relies way too heavily on communication and not enough tactical skill).

jordan would be one of the best players today. obviously. he's arguably the greatest volume scorer in history - but against the elite defenses of the 2000s, and even today, he would by far less efficient - which is all that matters in a possession based game.

[J Shuttlesworth]

At 2:14
http://i.imgur.com/9wZMHIt.png

http://i.imgur.com/uQjYCZA.png

http://i.imgur.com/k5Ule6L.png

oh shit :eek: rest in piss 3ball

if LBJ pleaded with the NBA committee to change the rules to make the game favorable for marquee players, everyone on here would lose their shit.

[KNOW1EDGE]

Jordan would dominate this era with the hand checking rules and how soft the league has become

[rlsmooth775]

http://i.imgur.com/9wZMHIt.png

http://i.imgur.com/uQjYCZA.png

http://i.imgur.com/k5Ule6L.png

oh shit :eek: rest in piss 3ball

if LBJ pleaded with the NBA committee to change the rules to make the game favorable for marquee players, everyone on here would lose their shit.

yeah its over for his fanboys

[JebronLames]

waiting for 3ball..:violin:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Anybody else get an appreciation for TMac watching this? Dude was a ****ing beast amid the STALE offensive era that was the early 2000s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyharafaEeA

[Trollsmasher]

fantastic video:applause:

[97 bulls]

I think you guys are misinterpreting his statement. He didn't say it would be harder to score, what he said is that it would hinder the marquee players. How? Because in theory, a team could just totally take a player out of the game by shadowing him with two guys and essentially play 4 on 3. But the down side is that you'd more than likely end up losing the game because youd alway have an open man. And contrary to the prevailing theme on insidehoops, ALL NBA PLAYERS CAN SCORE.

[rlsmooth775]

I think you guys are misinterpreting his statement. He didn't say it would be harder to score, what he said is that it would hinder the marquee players. How? Because in theory, a team could just totally take a player out of the game by shadowing him with two guys and essentially play 4 on 3. But the down side is that you'd more than likely end up losing the game because youd alway have an open man. And contrary to the prevailing theme on insidehoops, ALL NBA PLAYERS CAN SCORE.

Yeah it stops the superstars

[97 bulls]

Yeah it stops the superstars
It does? Like who. Wasn't there an offensive explosion when the zone was implemented l?

[rlsmooth775]

It does? Like who. Wasn't there an offensive explosion when the zone was implemented l?

Watch the video

[97 bulls]

Watch the video
I did. Now im asking you. Who has the zone stopped? Truth be told, most teams dont really like to play zone because of its draw backs. Bad rebounding postions, and the opportunity for wide open shots. Zones are often used to hide bad defenders.

[rlsmooth775]

I did. Now im asking you. Who has the zone stopped? Truth be told, most teams dont really like to play zone because of its draw backs. Bad rebounding postions, and the opportunity for wide open shots. Zones are often used to hide bad defenders.

Well if you watched the video you will know

[97 bulls]

Well if you watched the video you will know
Lol. I watched the video. It shows Kobe, Lebron, and Kevin at the end. Are you saying the zone has stopped their abilities?

[CavaliersFTW]

Lol. I watched the video. It shows Kobe, Lebron, and Kevin at the end. Are you saying the zone has stopped their abilities?
It allegedly 'stopped' T-mac but these are just quote mines and there's some extremely important context, and other-side-of-the-spectrum quotes/examples missing.

Pete Maravich for example, averaged 44ppg against zones. Without a damn 3 point line.

There's obviously holes in this video makers agenda. Zone is not an end all be all superstar stopper or w/e he's trying to make it be. It's just a different type of defense. It makes certain ways of scoring more difficult... makes other ways of scoring EASIER. Oscar Robertson has summed it up best. You get easier 3 point shots and layups against a zone. Any superstar can make this adjustment. Heck, any professional player can make that adjustment, and they all did when the NBA adopted the zone.

I do wish they'd get rid of it too though. Zone covers up a lot of shitty individual defensive talent. I want to see these guys play one on one more. If you can't play your guy, you're gonna get toasted period. That's what I want to see. Just my opinion.

[97 bulls]

It allegedly 'stopped' T-mac but these are just quote mines and there's some extremely important context, and other-side-of-the-spectrum quotes/examples missing.

Pete Maravich for example, averaged 44ppg against zones. Without a damn 3 point line.

There's obviously holes in this video makers agenda. Zone is not an end all be all superstar stopper or w/e he's trying to make it be. It's just a different type of defense. It makes certain ways of scoring more difficult... makes other ways of scoring EASIER. Oscar Robertson has summed it up best. You get easier 3 point shots and layups against a zone. Any superstar can make this adjustment. Heck, any professional player can make that adjustment, and they all did when the NBA adopted the zone.

I do wish they'd get rid of it too though. Zone covers up a lot of shitty individual defensive talent. I want to see these guys play one on one more. If you can't play your guy, you're gonna get toasted period. That's what I want to see. Just my opinion.
I couldnt agree more.

[atljonesbro]

Damn. That basically seals the fact the MJ played ina weak ass defensive era. Not only that, but he begged the league to not make it harder :oldlol:. Jordan apologists are scrambling for excuses.

[qrich]

Hey, zone defense took out Steph Curry when he was at Davidson. Team played a triangle two and Curry just parked at half court, giving his team a 4-3 advantage :roll:

[Kvnzhangyay]

wheres 3ball?

[Trollsmasher]

wheres 3ball?
scrambling for some gifs of tough shots

I'm getting ready for my Chrome breaking when he gets in here

[Poetry]

http://i.imgur.com/k5Ule6L.png

He had 28 points on .393 shooting that night.

But...

Two nights later, on 12/29/2001, at nearly 39-years-old, MJ would drop 51 on that same Hornets team :lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5sJ6qd6aCM

[pauk]

http://i.imgur.com/9wZMHIt.png

http://i.imgur.com/uQjYCZA.png

http://i.imgur.com/k5Ule6L.png

oh shit :eek: rest in piss 3ball

if LBJ pleaded with the NBA committee to change the rules to make the game favorable for marquee players, everyone on here would lose their shit.

:lebronamazed:

[ProfessorMurder]

All you need to break a zone is a jumpshot. Wow so tough.

[T_L_P]

I love Zone. At the very least, it stops giving offenses a huge advantage (clear-outs are fcking painful to watch).

I just want hand-checking back.

[juju151111]

Didn't broken down Mj avg 22 ppg on 45% and had a 50 PT game.

[dunksby]

It allegedly 'stopped' T-mac but these are just quote mines and there's some extremely important context, and other-side-of-the-spectrum quotes/examples missing.

Pete Maravich for example, averaged 44ppg against zones. Without a damn 3 point line.

There's obviously holes in this video makers agenda. Zone is not an end all be all superstar stopper or w/e he's trying to make it be. It's just a different type of defense. It makes certain ways of scoring more difficult... makes other ways of scoring EASIER. Oscar Robertson has summed it up best. You get easier 3 point shots and layups against a zone. Any superstar can make this adjustment. Heck, any professional player can make that adjustment, and they all did when the NBA adopted the zone.

I do wish they'd get rid of it too though. Zone covers up a lot of shitty individual defensive talent. I want to see these guys play one on one more. If you can't play your guy, you're gonna get toasted period. That's what I want to see. Just my opinion.
It's just a defensive scheme, why should they get rid of it? If a team wants play zone and accepts what comes with it then let them be. NBA zone defense is a limited version anyway.

[Asukal]

All you need to break a zone is a jumpshot. Wow so tough.

:applause:
There's one who understands how a zone works.

All these retards who think a zone can stop MJ... :facepalm

You don't see teams utilizing a zone defense in crunch time, it's not that hard to beat. You just need good passing, cutters, and good shooters. :whatever:

[TheMan]

:oldlol: Lol, you could totally tell who are the Bran stans in this thread pushing the zone defense = GOAT defensive scheme myth. Simpletons, explain why if it's legal it's not used that much by NBA teams? It has it's drawbacks you imbeciles, a team that can pass the rock can break down the zone and easily get wide open shots and lay ups. It is also a defense that get's your team out of defensive rebound position, giving up extra shots negates the penetration to the lane the zone is designed to stop. That's why NBA teams don't use it that often.

It's somewhat effective against Bran because he's a ball dominant player and often times dribbles way too long and ends up with a bail out pass to a teammate, dude has a shit off the ball game (and he still doesn't have a reliable jump shot, he often goes cold in big games). And when did zones stop the elite scorers like Kobe, Wade, Iverson, TMac, Durant, Harden, Westbrook etc? All those guys are inferior to Jordan, the zone defense wouldn't stop him, if you really believe that, then you're all dumber than I previously thought.

And calling for 3Ball to come into this thread just shows he's living in your heads...rent free

:facepalm

[3ball]

http://i.imgur.com/uQjYCZA.png




OP's article omits the part that says paint-camping WILL BE BANNED under the new rules - in 3rd sentence of the 3rd paragraph it says:

"The proposals also include a defensive three-second rule to prevent teams from stationing a big center, like Dikembe Mutombo, at the basket all game."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2001-04-01/sports/0104010375_1_defense-recommendations-nba
.

[juju151111]

This article gets cut off before the part about paint camping - in the 3rd sentence of the 3rd paragraph it says:

"The proposals also include a defensive three-second rule to prevent teams from stationing a big center, like Dikembe Mutombo, at the basket all game."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2001-04-01/sports/0104010375_1_defense-recommendations-nba
At 40 years old Mj still averaged 20 on 45% and 6 rebs. That's better then people who claim to be great players today.

[StephHamann]

:applause:
There's one who understands how a zone works.

All these retards who think a zone can stop MJ... :facepalm

You don't see teams utilizing a zone defense in crunch time, it's not that hard to beat. You just need good passing, cutters, and good shooters. :whatever:

Worked on Lebron 2011 :yaohappy:

[3ball]

OP's article omits the part that says paint-camping WILL BE BANNED under the new rules - in 3rd sentence of the 3rd paragraph it says:

"The proposals also include a defensive three-second rule to prevent teams from stationing a big center, like Dikembe Mutombo, at the basket all game."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2001-04-01/sports/0104010375_1_defense-recommendations-nba





At 40 years old Mj still averaged 20 on 45% and 6 rebs. That's better then people who claim to be great players today.


everybody knows that that already though.

what they didn't know was how OP's article discussed paint-camping, and how the new defensive 3 seconds rule was designed to ban paint-camping.

OP didn't want us to see that part of the article though, so the article was cut-off in the right spot.
.

[Im so nba'd out]

Its harder to score against a zone than man 2 man defense and water is wet.What is the point of this thread everyone already knows this?

[3ball]

So ultimately, it just depends on what topic the players are being asked about - if you ask Jordan, McGrady and Duncan about zone, they say it makes defenses tougher... Ask them about spacing, defensive 3 seconds, or the ban on hand-checking/physicality, and they say it makes defenses weaker. These things all offset each other.

The funny thing about the whole discussion is that new fans erroneously lump Jordan in there with stiffs that don't play off-ball like Lebron and McGrady. They either forget or aren't aware that while Jordan had GOAT primary ball-hander ability (http://ballislife.com/michael-jordan-could-of-been-the-best-point-guard-ever-want-proof/), he played primarily off-ball. Off-ball players BENEFIT from zone defenses. i.e. off-ball players on the weakside benefit during strong side floods when the weakside is left a defender down.

Btw, the NBA only allows a zone OUTSIDE THE PAINT. Inside the paint, defenders must abide by the defensive 3 seconds rule instituted in 2005, and therefore stay within armslength (http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html) of an offensive player at all times. Staying within armslength is the very definition of man-to-man defense - indeed, the rules dictate that today's defenders play man-to-man defense at all times when inside the paint.

Keep in mind that a defender's arm is only 3 feet long and the paint is a huge 16 feet by 19 feet, so defenders must hug their man even when their man is already inside the paint. Hug your man or get out of the paint - those are today's rules. In previous eras, there was no armslength requirement and defenders could "camp" in the lane even when their man was far out of armslength reach.

Intuitively, the ability of today's defenses to play zone defense only outside the paint is more than offset by spacing, as well as the new rules in 2005 that banned hand checking and instituted a new defensive 3 seconds rule. The raw stats in 2005 reflected the rules changes, as league-wide offensive rating increased the most it ever had since the 3-point line was introduced, while the scoring of all perimeter players went through the roof.
.

[Dr.J4ever]

All on video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM_eCnTNt1Q

Pretty much agree with everything in the video, but more importantly this is exactly what Coach Thibs was talkin' about. Not really surprising as Thibs is one of the best defensive minds in the game. In the video, the "satellite" big man was the one Thibs was referring to.

I also liked the part in the video where it's explained where good coaches from the 80s would expose the old Illegal Defense Rule by bringing out their bigs around the 3 point area, even bigs who couldn't shoot a lick, just to expose the illegal defense a particular defensive team was playing. I mentioned this before as a particular tactic the 76ers would do during the 80s as a way to help out the Doctor, but I was called a liar by someone in this thread whose name shall be withheld.:lol

But really though, this is among the reasons why comparing eras is difficult and in the end, not conclusive. Each era evolved strategies and players to combat existing rules to provide what they believed at the time to be the most efficient way of playing basketball.

Yes basketball from each decade looks different from one another, but in the end no decade was really better than any other. Each era stands on it's own as unique and great.

[3ball]

I also like where good coaches from the 80s would expose the old Illegal Defense Rule by bringing out their bigs around the 3 point area, even bigs who couldn't shoot a lick, just to expose the illegal defense a particular defensive team was playing.

Yes basketball from each decade looks different from one another, but in the end no decade was really better than any other. Each era stands on it's own as unique and great.


the video describes the rules incorrectly because it's a hard set of rules for most people to understand, and most people aren't smart enough to read the minutia and comprehend rules correctly.

when a big man is at the top of the key behind the 3-point line, the defensive rules are the same as they are today - the defender can't dip down below the FT line into the paint for more than 3 seconds.

it's no different, but you have to be able to both read and comprehend the rules to see that.
.

[sekachu]

Its harder to score against a zone than man 2 man defense and water is wet.What is the point of this thread everyone already knows this?



It's harder for guys who don't have explosiveness and quickness against zone which you seem to be one of them

[Rake2204]

I believe I'd fall in the camp of NBA zones changing the way players can best score but not necessarily making it flat out harder, if a particular player's game is properly diversified. I think an "any zone you want" approach would be a different story (as in, college or high school style, with no defensive three seconds). But NBA zones have restrictions that, for NBA players, likely leaves numerous options available if they play their cards right.

Perhaps above else, it just requires a playstyle adjustment. Even when I scrimmage against my players, it's a little weird to face a zone after years of one-on-one. There's gaps and advantages, but they may not be the ones you're used to seeing.

[Dro]

And when did zones stop the elite scorers like Kobe, Wade, Iverson, TMac, Durant, Harden, Westbrook etc? All those guys are inferior to Jordan, the zone defense wouldn't stop him, if you really believe that, then you're all dumber than I previously thought.
/thread

[3ball]

I think an "any zone you want" approach would be a different story (as in, college or high school style, with no defensive three seconds). But NBA zones have restrictions that, for NBA players, likely leaves numerous options available if they play their cards right.

Perhaps above else, it just requires a playstyle adjustment. Even when I scrimmage against my players, it's a little weird to face a zone after years of one-on-one. There's gaps and advantages, but they may not be the ones you're used to seeing.


your post implies that spacing has no impact on how the game is played - but spacing impacts the way teams as a whole pursue offense and the way the lesser, role players score (more play-finishing than ever).

regarding the more prominent players - all the high scoring wings of today (harden, lebron, kobe, melo, you name it) - they ALL score most of their points going 1-on-1 and penetrating from the perimeter.

so the zone didn't change the way high-scoring wings score - they score the same way they always have.

The funny thing about the whole discussion is that new fans erroneously lump Jordan in there with stiffs that don't play off-ball like Lebron and McGrady. They either forget or aren't aware that while Jordan had GOAT primary ball-hander ability (http://ballislife.com/michael-jordan-could-of-been-the-best-point-guard-ever-want-proof/), he played primarily off-ball. Off-ball players BENEFIT from zone defenses.. i.e. off-ball players on the weakside benefit during strong side floods when the weakside is left a defender down.

Ultimately, the ability of today's defenses to play zone (of course, only outside the paint due to the "armslength" defensive 3 seconds rule in effect inside the paint) is more than offset by 3 things: spacing, along with the new rules in 2005 that banned hand checking and paint-camping.

The raw stats in 2005 reflected the rules changes that year, as league-wide offensive rating increased the most it ever had since the 3-point line was introduced, while the scoring of all perimeter players went through the roof.

[Rooster]

I love Zone. At the very least, it stops giving offenses a huge advantage (clear-outs are fcking painful to watch).

I just want hand-checking back.

You do know that Spurs were playing illegal zone against Shaq and NBA had to change the rules to accommodate them and that is why Duncan will never be greater that Shaq despite winning more.

[Rooster]

http://i.imgur.com/9wZMHIt.png

http://i.imgur.com/uQjYCZA.png

http://i.imgur.com/k5Ule6L.png

oh shit :eek: rest in piss 3ball

if LBJ pleaded with the NBA committee to change the rules to make the game favorable for marquee players, everyone on here would lose their shit.

Even if this is true , no team would sag on Jordan and dare him to shoot.

[Marchesk]

Even if this is true , no team would sag on Jordan and dare him to shoot.

This

[rlsmooth775]

:oldlol: Lol, you could totally tell who are the Bran stans in this thread pushing the zone defense = GOAT defensive scheme myth. Simpletons, explain why if it's legal it's not used that much by NBA teams? It has it's drawbacks you imbeciles, a team that can pass the rock can break down the zone and easily get wide open shots and lay ups. It is also a defense that get's your team out of defensive rebound position, giving up extra shots negates the penetration to the lane the zone is designed to stop. That's why NBA teams don't use it that often.

It's somewhat effective against Bran because he's a ball dominant player and often times dribbles way too long and ends up with a bail out pass to a teammate, dude has a shit off the ball game (and he still doesn't have a reliable jump shot, he often goes cold in big games). And when did zones stop the elite scorers like Kobe, Wade, Iverson, TMac, Durant, Harden, Westbrook etc? All those guys are inferior to Jordan, the zone defense wouldn't stop him, if you really believe that, then you're all dumber than I previously thought.

And calling for 3Ball to come into this thread just shows he's living in your heads...rent free

:facepalm

Lol why so butthurt, Jordan admitted his career would have been worse if he played during a zone defense.

[rlsmooth775]

Even if this is true , no team would sag on Jordan and dare him to shoot.

Michael Jordan said it himself he's glad he never had to play in the zone era for his whole career.

[3ball]

Even if this is true , no team would sag on Jordan and dare him to shoot.
it doesn't matter - the zone is offset by spacing and the ban on hand-checking and paint-camping.

the ban on paint-camping (defensive 3 seconds) means the zone is only allowed OUTSIDE the paint. inside the paint, defenders must abide by defensive 3 seconds and stay within armslength of their man, which is the very definition of man-to-man.

being able to play zone only outside the paint is not a big deal, and is more than offset by spacing, defensive 3 seconds, and the physicality ban.

[rlsmooth775]

Lol you have guys like Tmac, Jordan, Kobe, Duncan all saying zones limit what they could do on offense. Some people still try to pretend it has no impact on the game.

[Mr Exlax]

Fellas just go outside and play 5 on 5 and have the other team run a zone. You don't need an nba player to tell you it's tougher to score. Shit just go play and experience it first hand.

[3ball]

Fellas just go outside and play 5 on 5 and have the other team run a zone. You don't need an nba player to tell you it's tougher to score. Shit just go play and experience it first hand.
who cares - the zone is offset by spacing and the ban on hand-checking and paint-camping.

the ban on paint-camping (defensive 3 seconds) means the zone is only allowed OUTSIDE the paint. inside the paint, defenders must abide by defensive 3 seconds and stay within armslength of their man, which is the very definition of man-to-man.

being able to play zone only outside the paint is not a big deal, and is more than offset by spacing, defensive 3 seconds, and the physicality ban.

[rlsmooth775]

who cares - the zone is offset by spacing and the ban on hand-checking and paint-camping.

the ban on paint-camping (defensive 3 seconds) means the zone is only allowed OUTSIDE the paint. inside the paint, defenders must abide by defensive 3 seconds and stay within armslength of their man, which is the very definition of man-to-man.

being able to play zone only outside the paint is not a big deal, and is more than offset by spacing, defensive 3 seconds, and the physicality ban.

Jordan said it would have made his career worse :lol

[Mr Exlax]

who cares - the zone is offset by spacing and the ban on hand-checking and paint-camping.

the ban on paint-camping (defensive 3 seconds) means the zone is only allowed OUTSIDE the paint. inside the paint, defenders must abide by defensive 3 seconds and stay within armslength of their man, which is the very definition of man-to-man.

being able to play zone only outside the paint is not a big deal, and is more than offset by spacing, defensive 3 seconds, and the physicality ban.


Bruh get off the keyboard and go outside and hoop please. Not every team has a knock down 3pt shooter.

[3ball]

Bruh get off the keyboard and go outside and hoop please. Not every team has a knock down 3pt shooter.
the NBA's zone policy doesn't apply to the paint - the NBA does not allow defenders to play zone in the paint.

defenders must be within armslength to remain in the paint, which is the definition of man-to-man

the zone only applies to defenders OUTSIDE THE PAINT, which is easily offset by today's spacing, ban on physicality, and ban on paint-camping.

if you ask jordan, mcgrady or duncan about whether spacing, the ban on physicality, and the ban on paint-camping makes offense easier, they will all say it does.

how does this fly over everyone's heads?

here's avery johnson on First Take saying how when he went to the Board of Governors meeting every year, the main topics of discussion were freedom of movement and making things easier for the offensive player - he said the rule changes benefited ALL perimeter players, such as kobe and dirk - it couldn't be more clear-cut evidence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuPVryg0Igo&t=0m58s

[T_L_P]

You do know that Spurs were playing illegal zone against Shaq and NBA had to change the rules to accommodate them and that is why Duncan will never be greater that Shaq despite winning more.

:oldlol:

[3ball]

Damn.. Even MJ admits pre-zones made it easier for marquee superstars. Gotta respect his honesty. :applause:
what do you think he says about spacing, the ban on hand-checking, and the ban on paint-camping?

[TheMan]

Fellas just go outside and play 5 on 5 and have the other team run a zone. You don't need an nba player to tell you it's tougher to score. Shit just go play and experience it first hand.
If I could shoot, zones aren't stopping open looks if your team has good passing/off the ball movement. All zones do is make basketball more boring like college hoops, especially with a longer shot clock.

[Mr Exlax]

If I could shoot, zones aren't stopping open looks if your team has good passing/off the ball movement. All zones do is make basketball more boring like college hoops, especially with a longer shot clock.

But you can't so it makes it more difficult. Even if you could, I don't think your team is gonna give you the ball every single possession.

[TheMan]

Jordan said it would have made his career worse :lol
He's also said that he'd rip LeBron a new one if he were in his prime right now, do you agree with that one, too? Or do you only believe/agree with him when it fits your agenda?

[ArbitraryWater]

I don't think Zone is some master defensive scheme, especially not against Superstars...

Dirk himself last year or a few years back (perhaps 2011) said no team plays zone throughout an entire game.. it's just used for stretches to throw teams off their rythm.

Ball movement, cutting and passing can eat a Zone defense up.

However, the sole implemention of rules such as handchecking and no defensive 3 seconds would immediately make defenses better and make things easier for defenses. Just logical.

MJ won and dominated the perhaps most ruthless era for perimeter players ever.

[PHILA]

Sports Illustrated - October 29, 2001 (http://www.si.com/vault/2001/10/29/313007/iverson-vs-the-new-zone-the-new-rules-which-allow-more-double-teaming-may-well-spell-double-trouble-for-the-76ers-star)

-Iverson turned at the sound of the Z word, the fire in his eyes as bright as the diamonds in his ears. "Zone," he said. "Man, why did you have to go and bring that up? You trying to mess with my good mood? I don't want to hear that word until next year."

-"The NBA is for men, and a grown man doesn't need to play zone," says Shaquille O'Neal. "Why do you think they call it man-to-man? If you can't play it, you shouldn't be here."

-Even the best zone has seams, however, and the danger for any coach who deploys it is that a scorer as quick and clever as Iverson will find those openings. "Zones may work for a possession or two," says Mavericks assistant coach Sidney Moncrief, "but the more they see them, the more great players will exploit them by finding the holes."

-The San Antonio Spurs, with 7-footers Tim Duncan and David Robinson to station on either side of the lane, would seem to be another zone-prone team, but coach Gregg Popovich says he did not spend "one single second" devising such a defense during the off-season. "What we will do," adds Popovich, "is use zones in special situations, specifically, out-of-bounds plays and maybe with limited time on the shot clock."

[TheMan]

But you can't so it makes it more difficult. Even if you could, I don't think your team is gonna give you the ball every single possession.
So you're essentially saying McGrady, Iverson, Bryant, Anthony, Curry, Wade, Harden etc. are superior basketball players to Jordan? Is that what you're saying because those players had no problems with zone defenses. Just because zones have made LeBron look like a bitch at times in his career, it doesn't mean it would stop every elite offensive player...

[rlsmooth775]

So you're essentially saying McGrady, Iverson, Bryant, Anthony, Curry, Wade, Harden etc. are superior basketball players to Jordan? Is that what you're saying because those players had no problems with zone defenses. Just because zones have made LeBron look like a bitch at times in his career, it doesn't mean it would stop every elite offensive player...

Who said anything about those guys being better than Jordan. All were saying is zones make it harder. All of those guys have struggled with a zone at some point mostly in the playoffs when it's most effective.

[3ball]

Who said anything about those guys being better than Jordan. All were saying is zones make it harder. All of those guys have struggled with a zone at some point mostly in the playoffs when it's most effective.
what's the point of saying a zone makes it harder, when the NBA doesn't allow a zone in the paint, and when the spacing, the ban on hand-checking, and the ban on paint-camping negates the positive effects of a zone?

should i make 3 new threads with quotes of NBA people saying the spacing makes it easier, the hand-check ban makes it easier, and the ban on paint-camping makes it easier?
.

[Kvnzhangyay]

He's also said that he'd rip LeBron a new one if he were in his prime right now, do you agree with that one, too? Or do you only believe/agree with him when it fits your agenda?

Being able to beat Lebron (Which shouldn't suprise anybody) doesn't change the fact that he admitted he would probably do worse in today's game

[Mr Exlax]

So you're essentially saying McGrady, Iverson, Bryant, Anthony, Curry, Wade, Harden etc. are superior basketball players to Jordan? Is that what you're saying because those players had no problems with zone defenses. Just because zones have made LeBron look like a bitch at times in his career, it doesn't mean it would stop every elite offensive player...

If you don't have the right supporting cast, a zone can and will make your life a living hell. I didn't say it would stop every elite offensive player. I said they make it much more difficult. Anybody that you named, if they didn't have at least 1 or 2 other shooters on the floor, a zone would give that 1 man army hell.

[3ball]

Being able to beat Lebron (Which shouldn't suprise anybody) doesn't change the fact that he admitted he would probably do worse in today's game
he said that in 2001 when he thought it the zone was going to be a true zone, like what he faced at north carolina (when he won all the POY awards).

but 2001 was before modern spacing strategy, and long before the well-documented hand-check ban and rule changes of 2005 that increased scoring and made offense easier for everyone.

citing the 2001 interview is very disingenuous, because just like everyone else, jordan has since said that the rule changes of 2005 and spacing makes offense easier for everyone.

[Micku]

All you need to break a zone is a jumpshot. Wow so tough.

While this is true, the double teams would be quicker with zone. You can roam around easier. In theory, zoning would also limit driving since they could guard an particular area. Stars would suffer because they could double team without the ball. However, the rules made so you can't touch perimeter players anymore they open things up for them. The rules of 05 basically changed things for the better for perimeter players and spacing much bigger deal now.

MJ had the necessary tools to counter a zone since he has a jumpshot and good shot selection. It would also help if you have right supporting case too. T-Mac even mentioned that he had trouble with zone and he wanted to MJ to give him advice to how to beat it in Open Court:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-oyqyuepWY#t=01m15s

[Blue&Orange]

Can someone show me a superstar that had decreased ppg after zone was made legal in the NBA?
Can someone show me a superstar that had decreased ppg after zone was made legal in the NBA?
Can someone show me a superstar that had decreased ppg after zone was made legal in the NBA?
Can someone show me a superstar that had decreased ppg after zone was made legal in the NBA?
Can someone show me a superstar that had decreased ppg after zone was made legal in the NBA?
Can someone show me a superstar that had decreased ppg after zone was made legal in the NBA?

Tracy Mcgrady, Garnett and Duncan all had better or equal numbers after zone defense became legal.



http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10878000&postcount=173

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10844524&postcount=12

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10844617&postcount=17



Too bad facts, stats, video footage trumpet opinions.

Players also whined about sleeve shirts and that scoring would decrease, but they are breaking scoring records with them.

[rlsmooth775]

Why is everyone getting butthurt you have players admitting they hate zone

[3ball]

Why is everyone getting butthurt you have players admitting they hate zone


because of the way you couched the OP

the NBA doesn't even allow zone defense inside the paint area due to the armslength (http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html) stipulation of the defensive 3 seconds rule - accordingly, zone defense is only allowed outside the paint.

being allowed to play zone outside the paint is more than offset by spacing, the ban on hand-checking, and the ban on paint-camping (defensive 3 seconds).

[Hey Yo]

LOL @ the shady deleting of posts throughout this thread

3ball = a mod?

[Trollsmasher]

Can't argue with Jordan

3ball should take the word of his idol and bow out of this thread

[3ball]

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html


NBA.com: Shooting percentages have risen since 2004-05 regardless of location -- at-the-rim shots, short- and deep-mid range and 3-pointers. Does this surprise you, especially the higher percentages from 3-point range?

Stu Jackson: With the rule and interpretation changes, it has become more difficult for defenders to defend penetration, cover the entire floor on defensive rotations and recover to shooters. This has provided more time for shooters to ready themselves for quality shots. With more dribble penetration, ball handlers are getting more opportunities at the rim.



NBA.com: Doesn't the wide-open style benefit certain types of players? For example, wing players vs. frontcourt players?

Stu Jackson: The benefits of an open game are not limited to just perimeter players. An open game can benefit a post player as well. Remember, if the players are spaced wider and using more of the court, then defenses have to play those players closely because they're good shooters. The style actually serves to open up the middle of the floor. If a team has an effective post player, he would have more room to operate in the post.

[CavaliersFTW]

Can't argue with Jordan

3ball should take the word of his idol and bow out of this thread
Yeah but didn't Jordan also say he would average 50 today due to no hand checking?

So what would that mean, does that mean in Jordan's mind zone could be tougher in a nutshell but is actually inferior in today's brand of ball due to hand checking not existing?

[Im so nba'd out]

It's harder for guys who don't have explosiveness and quickness against zone which you seem to be one of them
Zone defense is designed to make you pass but you got it Russell Westbrook :rolleyes:

[Hey Yo]

Can't argue with Jordan

3ball should take the word of his idol and bow out of this thread
nvm

[3ball]

Yeah but didn't Jordan also say he would average 50 today due to no hand checking?

So what would that mean, does that mean in Jordan's mind zone could be tougher in a nutshell but is actually inferior in today's brand of ball due to hand checking not existing?
Jordan's interview cited by OP was in 2001, before the rule changes in 2005.

at that time in 2001, jordan was thinking the zone was going to be like the ones he faced at north carolina (where he won all the POY awards).

however, little did he know when he gave that interview in 2001, that in just 4 more years the league would institute rule changes banning zone in the paint, banning hand-checking, and banning paint camping.

since those 2005 rule changes, you're right CavalierFTW - jordan has given many interviews saying that he'd average 50 a game under the new rules, and many other players have concurred.

[Hey Yo]

Jordan's interview cited by OP was in 2001, before the rule changes in 2005.

at that time in 2001, jordan was thinking the zone was going to be like the ones he faced at north carolina (where he won all the POY awards).

however, little did he know when he gave that interview in 2001, that in just 4 more years the league would institute rule changes banning zone in the paint, banning hand-checking, and banning paint camping.

since those 2005 rule changes, you're right CavalierFTW - jordan has given many interviews saying that he'd average 50 a game under the new rules, and many other players have concurred.
He won POY award once, but no titles after Worthy left.

[jstern]

It's just out of context, agenda driven video. Kobe said that the current rules has made it so that scrubs could shine. If the rules were like before, he would still be scoring lots of points because of his versatility and skills, something that the scrubby players don't have and would struggle. So don't tell me that it's harder to score for guards now. Kevin Garnette and Tim Duncan are not guards.

[JohnFreeman]

damnn

[deja vu]

Its harder to score against a zone than man 2 man defense and water is wet.What is the point of this thread everyone already knows this?
Zone defense can easily be broken with good passing and shooters.

Zone defense doesn't have any effect against superstars especially against the likes of Jordan and Kobe who have killer midrange games.

Man to man is more effective against elite players.

[rlsmooth775]

Zone defense can easily be broken with good passing and shooters.

Zone defense doesn't have any effect against superstars especially against the likes of Jordan and Kobe who have killer midrange games.

Man to man is more effective against elite players.

Jordan said it did :lol Its funny how people are living in denial

[Bandito]

Jordan said it did :lol Its funny how people are living in denial
But Ginobili who used to play like MJ when he was younger (a slasher type player) used to eat zones alive when he came to the NBA and zone defense was used more regularly. And Ginobili wasn't even as good as Kobe, he wouldn't even step on MJ shoes. I think MJ's game would have change but he would still dominate the league like he did in the 90's.

[deja vu]

Jordan said it did :lol Its funny how people are living in denial
So do you believe everything that MJ says?

Honestly, zone has more holes than Swiss cheese.

[rapker]

Anybody else get an appreciation for TMac watching this? Dude was a ****ing beast amid the STALE offensive era that was the early 2000s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyharafaEeA

sigh, i miss watching mcgrady balls

[rlsmooth775]

But Ginobili who used to play like MJ when he was younger (a slasher type player) used to eat zones alive when he came to the NBA and zone defense was used more regularly. And Ginobili wasn't even as good as Kobe, he wouldn't even step on MJ shoes. I think MJ's game would have change but he would still dominate the league like he did in the 90's.

I never said Jordan wouldn't be a great player he just wouldn't get to the basket as easy as he did now. Especially in the playoff games.

[rlsmooth775]

So do you believe everything that MJ says?

Honestly, zone has more holes than Swiss cheese.

Jordan, Tmac, Duncan, Garnett who else do we need :confusedshrug:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

sigh, i miss watching mcgrady balls

Not sure if this was a homosexual pun, but...ya....TMac was the sh!t. :lol

[plowking]

Zone makes stopping a great individual easier. This has always been the case, and posters on here without a bias to current day basketball and that of back in the day, have always stipulated so.

Playing one on one with a guy being able to push me a little or put his hands on me makes nearly no difference.

Why do you think when you go to the local rec leagues, you see teams play zone damn near exclusively? It's easier to stop good players, easier to play, and makes hitting outside shots a necessity for the other team.

For years on here we've heard idiotic and nostalgic posters tell us that players are dumber, hence why they are shooting more outside shots, etc. No... It is due to defenses today.

It is harder to shine as an individual today and put up monster stats.

[3ball]

Yeah but didn't Jordan also say he would average 50 today due to no hand checking?

So what would that mean, does that mean in Jordan's mind, a zone could be tougher in a nutshell but is actually inferior in today's brand of ball due to hand checking not existing?


That must be it - Jordan's interview cited by OP was in 2001, before the rule changes in 2005.

at that time in 2001, jordan was thinking the zone was going to be like the ones he faced at north carolina (where he won all the POY awards).

however, little did he know when he gave that interview in 2001, that in just 4 more years the league would institute rule changes banning zone in the paint, banning hand-checking, and banning paint camping.

since those 2005 rule changes, you're right CavalierFTW - jordan has given many interviews saying that he'd average 50 a game under the new rules, and many other players have concurred.
.

[3ball]

Why is everyone getting butthurt you have players admitting they hate zone


because of the way you couched the OP

the NBA doesn't even allow zone defense inside the paint area due to the armslength (http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html) stipulation of the defensive 3 seconds rule - accordingly, zone defense is only allowed outside the paint.

being allowed to play zone outside the paint is more than offset by spacing, the ban on hand-checking, and the ban on paint-camping (defensive 3 seconds).

[SamuraiSWISH]

He had 28 points on .393 shooting that night.

But...

Two nights later, on 12/29/2001, at nearly 39-years-old, MJ would drop 51 on that same Hornets team :lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5sJ6qd6aCM
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Ether

Oldest player to score 50+, and did it with relative ease.

:pimp:

[3ball]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Ether

Oldest player to score 50+, and did it with relative ease.

:pimp:


and the very next game, he dropped 45 against the #1 defense in the league, the Finals-bound New Jersey Nets.

this was even more impressive imo because it's harder to do it two games in a row and a lot of his points in the 2nd half came on kenyon martin.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FERPEtMYpes&t=0m17s

These back-to-back performances by MJ of 51 and 45 points were a response to him scoring a career-low 6 points the game before these two games... Doug Collins talks about Jordan's 96-point response to that career low here.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hYHmK1GD6o
.

[julizaver]

comment on youtube:

comment on youtube:

Any comments players or coaches say about zone or toughness is propaganda to keep the 90s relevant. If Gary Payton can hold mike to 40% alone, imagine the 04 Pistons or 08 celtics 13 Spurs zone that shut down every superstar those years. I don't see any perimeter player in NBA history dominating those 3 teams.

^^^ nothing new here.

i've been preaching this for a LONG time... defenses are just better now. point blank. nothing against jordan, but he WOULD struggle verse the pistons and celtics, as i have continuously said.

sophisticated and skilled defense >>> more physical, but less efficient ones

Payton hold Mike to 0.417 in '96 Finals and overall in the reg.season Mike is 0.470 (including MJ's Wizzard days where he played SF).
MJ played with great success in 1984 and 1982 Olympics and I remembered him playing with Bulls on 1997 McDonalds Tournament in Paris against the best European team (and the Bulls were without Rodman and Pippen) where he won the MVP and dominated with that zone defense:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYcQDgmZKXs

[scandisk_]

Payton hold Mike to 0.417 in '96 Finals and overall in the reg.season Mike is 0.470 (including MJ's Wizzard days where he played SF).
MJ played with great success in 1984 and 1982 Olympics and I remembered him playing with Bulls on 1997 McDonalds Tournament in Paris against the best European team (and the Bulls were without Rodman and Pippen) where he won the MVP and dominated with that zone defense:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYcQDgmZKXs


:eek: I remember watching this game, nice find!

[3ball]

Payton hold Mike to 0.417 in '96 Finals and overall in the reg.season Mike is 0.470 (including MJ's Wizzard days where he played SF).
MJ played with great success in 1984 and 1982 Olympics and I remembered him playing with Bulls on 1997 McDonalds Tournament in Paris against the best European team (and the Bulls were without Rodman and Pippen) where he won the MVP and dominated with that zone defense:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYcQDgmZKXs
here's a great video showing the Sonic defense on Jordan - as you can see, players today don't face that type of defense, from a physicality standpoint, lack of spacing standpoint, and superior paint defense standpoint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WpkXlrJxtw

it's like night and day from the neat marching-band-like, neat corn-row spacing we have in today's game.. no comparison

[3ball]

Here's the very person that implemented the new rules in 2005 discussing how they were designed to make offense easier for literally EVERYONE - the Vice President of Basketball Operations, Stu Jackson:

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html


NBA.com: Shooting percentages have risen since 2004-05 regardless of location -- at-the-rim shots, short- and deep-mid range and 3-pointers. Does this surprise you, especially the higher percentages from 3-point range?

Stu Jackson: With the rule and interpretation changes, it has become more difficult for defenders to defend penetration, cover the entire floor on defensive rotations and recover to shooters. This has provided more time for shooters to ready themselves for quality shots. With more dribble penetration, ball handlers are getting more opportunities at the rim..



NBA.com: Doesn't the wide-open style benefit certain types of players? For example, wing players vs. frontcourt players?

Stu Jackson: The benefits of an open game are not limited to just perimeter players. An open game can benefit a post player as well. Remember, if the players are spaced wider and using more of the court, then defenses have to play those players closely because they're good shooters. The style actually serves to open up the middle of the floor. If a team has an effective post player, he would have more room to operate in the post.


What more do you want? The Vice President of Basketball Operations says today's defenses allow more penetration and give up higher quality shots than ever before. So don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger.

[hahaitme]

Zone makes stopping a great individual easier. This has always been the case, and posters on here without a bias to current day basketball and that of back in the day, have always stipulated so.

Playing one on one with a guy being able to push me a little or put his hands on me makes nearly no difference.

Why do you think when you go to the local rec leagues, you see teams play zone damn near exclusively? It's easier to stop good players, easier to play, and makes hitting outside shots a necessity for the other team.

For years on here we've heard idiotic and nostalgic posters tell us that players are dumber, hence why they are shooting more outside shots, etc. No... It is due to defenses today.

It is harder to shine as an individual today and put up monster stats.

Yeah but I guarantee a good 60% or more of people on this board have never stepped foot on an indoor court, so they've probably never played against a zone before.

[TheMan]

Zone defenses are played at rec leagues for a couple of really simple reasons...

1.) It hides bad defenders because you defend a spot on the floor and not a specific player, it's essentially the easy and lazy way to defend in basketball and
2.) the way to break a zone is with good passing, off ball movement and good shooting. Not many players at your local gym are NBA level shooters, so this type of defense can be very effective, not so in the NBA where the top teams have great athletes who can pass, move without the ball and most importantly, shoot the damn ball. Zones aren't that effective, that's why most NBA teams hardly use it, and it leaves you in bad rebounding position. If it's this GOAT defensive scheme, then why isn't it used more often? Answer that simple question.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Ginobili wasn't even as good as Kobe

:biggums:

[ralph_i_el]

Yeah but I guarantee a good 60% or more of people on this board have never stepped foot on an indoor court, so they've probably never played against a zone before.
Lol I played for two hours today. Played against this lefty ~6'3" with a good first step and I kept leaving my man and stripping him because he'd hold the ball too damn long when he'd try to score.

It actually made me think of this thread lol. Please don't misconstrue this as me bragging about being good at ball. I suck but I'm a good enough athlete, I know where to be, and I don't force up shots, so no one complains when I'm on their team.

[3ball]

Lol I played for two hours today. Played against this lefty ~6'3" with a good first step and I kept leaving my man and stripping him because he'd hold the ball too damn long when he'd try to score.

It actually made me think of this thread lol. Please don't misconstrue this as me bragging about being good at ball. I suck but I'm a good enough athlete, I know where to be, and I don't force up shots, so no one complains when I'm on their team.
let's play for money - i'll give you an 8 point lead going to 11 and play with only my left hand.

when do you want to play?

[bagelred]

I think we can all agree if Michael Jordan played today, he'd be about as good as Jodie Meeks. Times change.

[ralph_i_el]

let's play for money - i'll give you an 8 point lead going to 11 and play with only my left hand.

when do you want to play?
You gonna fly to Virginia? I play hardball.
Post your 100 shot vid before you run your mouth.

[3ball]

You gonna fly to Virginia? I play hardball.
Post your 100 shot vid before you run your mouth.
100 shot vid?.... :kobe:

how about a 100 drop-step dunk vid, or a 100 euro-step dunk vid (ahem, i mean Elgin-Step (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=354072)).

you know i'm working with that max navigation efficiency (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=360900) bruh... hope you can handle it, more power to you if you can... :pimp:

[3ball]

You gonna fly to Virginia? I play hardball.
Post your 100 shot vid before you run your mouth.
https://scontent-b-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10365982_10203881636820792_6374383594081119593_n.j pg?oh=e20fbfc5d97d42cd4ca6d712055260a3&oe=5566B397

think you can you f with it?

what do you have for me?

[ralph_i_el]

https://scontent-b-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10365982_10203881636820792_6374383594081119593_n.j pg?oh=e20fbfc5d97d42cd4ca6d712055260a3&oe=5566B397

think you can you f with it?

what do you have for me?

I explicitly said I suck at basketball....IN THIS THREAD. So I don't know what you're hoping to gain here. I played water polo. I made the eastern zone olympic development team. I was too busy in the pool for 20-30 hours a week, busting my ass swimming laps, or playing on of the most brutal team sports.

So you can see why I'm not just going to stay silent when you go all "internet tough guy" on me. Anyone who played high school basketball would beat me 1 on 1. Doesn't mean I'd back down from playing anybody. And you sure as hell aren't beating me with one hand and a handicap :rolleyes:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

https://scontent-b-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10365982_10203881636820792_6374383594081119593_n.j pg?oh=e20fbfc5d97d42cd4ca6d712055260a3&oe=5566B397

think you can you f with it?

what do you have for me?

I'd be willing to bet my account that this isn't you. I could be way off, but the way you act on here doesn't exactly scream "basketball star". Aside from the fact you're always posting, your constant trolling and whacked-out beliefs would likely prove me right.

[ArbitraryWater]

https://scontent-b-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10365982_10203881636820792_6374383594081119593_n.j pg?oh=e20fbfc5d97d42cd4ca6d712055260a3&oe=5566B397

think you can you f with it?

what do you have for me?

Googled "basketball 2 foot leap" :roll: :roll:

[3ball]

I'd be willing to bet my account that this isn't you. I could be way off, but the way you act on here doesn't exactly scream "basketball star". Aside from the fact you're always posting, your constant trolling and whacked-out beliefs would likely prove me right.
im a finance professional (M&A) and a former D1 player.

so my beliefs only seem whack to you because the things i say represent a higher level of understanding than you've previously heard - to you, it sounds like i'm saying the world is round.

that kind of statement won't endear me to anyone on here, but it's true, and you seem curious.

btw, the mods should perma-ban you.

[ralph_i_el]

so my beliefs only seem whack to you because the things i say represent a higher level of understanding than you've previously heard - to you, it sounds like i'm saying the world is round.


http://www.quickmeme.com/img/47/47cac6a1d12035c0b63f37ffaa7572e55f4e5f5e4f710abce3 7eaec02b9feae5.jpg

If you said the world was round, everyone would agree with you
You've ascended to a higher level of understanding, where everyone else thinks you're retarded, congratulations :applause:

[3ball]

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/47/47cac6a1d12035c0b63f37ffaa7572e55f4e5f5e4f710abce3 7eaec02b9feae5.jpg

If you said the world was round, everyone would agree with you
You've ascended to a higher level of understanding, where everyone else thinks you're retarded, congratulations :applause:
most posters in this forum are like people who thought the world is flat back in the day.

their knowledge of the game of basketball is on such a rudimentary, child-like level.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

most posters in this forum are like people who thought the world is flat back in the day.

their knowledge of the game of basketball is on such a rudimentary, child-like level.

The world according to 3ball: disagree with me and you're wrong because my opinions are actually facts :rolleyes:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

im a finance professional (M&A) and a former D1 player.

so my beliefs only seem whack to you because the things i say represent a higher level of understanding than you've previously heard - to you, it sounds like i'm saying the world is round.

that kind of statement won't endear me to anyone on here, but it's true, and you seem curious.

btw, the mods should perma-ban you.

You're the biggest joke on this forum as per Kblaze, another Jordan fan.

If repeating that "higher level of thinking" mantra helps you get through your daily trolling, by all means. I personally think you need to be locked up in an insane asylum.

[plowking]

Zone defenses are played at rec leagues for a couple of really simple reasons...

1.) It hides bad defenders because you defend a spot on the floor and not a specific player, it's essentially the easy and lazy way to defend in basketball and
2.) the way to break a zone is with good passing, off ball movement and good shooting. Not many players at your local gym are NBA level shooters, so this type of defense can be very effective, not so in the NBA where the top teams have great athletes who can pass, move without the ball and most importantly, shoot the damn ball. Zones aren't that effective, that's why most NBA teams hardly use it, and it leaves you in bad rebounding position. If it's this GOAT defensive scheme, then why isn't it used more often? Answer that simple question.

Well, they actually do play zone quite a bit, but for some reason, coaches and teams seem embarrassed to admit it. Spurs played a whole heap of zone against the Heat in the 2014 finals. Boston played it a hell of a lot as well when they were one of the best defensive teams. Chicago play it a hell of a lot now.

Zones are actually great for rebounding, not the other way around. Also, you do give up easier shots on the outside, but a shot from the outside is better than one from the inside. Passing is the way to beat it, but like it has been mentioned, the NBA has always been about the individual flash more often than not. The point of the whole thread is, it makes it harder for individuals to dominate. That is fact. You said it yourself in a roundabout way; by passing beating the zone.
Going by that, Jordan would be less statistically dominant in this era than his. He'd still be the best or there about just about every year, but he wouldn't be as statistically dominant.

[BruceLeeBowen]

Going by that, Jordan would be less statistically dominant in this era than his.
I agree.:bowdown:

[scandisk_]

You're the biggest joke on this forum as per Kblaze, another Jordan fan.

If repeating that "higher level of thinking" mantra helps you get through your daily trolling, by all means. I personally think you need to be locked up in an insane asylum.

I'm having a weird feeling he's one of jlauber's/Laz/millwad's alt accounts. Dude might even be connected to some major league, perhaps a trainer or a coach. Who cares though he brings traffic to this site :oldlol:

[ralph_i_el]

I'm having a weird feeling he's one of jlauber's/Laz/millwad's alt accounts. Dude might even be connected to some major league, perhaps a trainer or a coach. Who cares though he brings traffic to this site :oldlol:
What's crazy is that he has almost 3k posts and they are all essentially on the same topic.