Kareem picks Big O, not Jordan as GREATER

[mehyaM24]

I think Oscar Robertson would have kicked him in the behind,” Abdul-Jabbar said Thursday on Colin Cowherd‘s radio show.

“Absolutely. Oscar was awesome. He had brains . . . He had all the skills. He could rebound and box out guys 4 and 6 inches taller than him. He was ruggedly built. He had fluid, quickness, and just understood the game. No flair, he just got the job done every night. Who’s going to average double figures in points, assists and rebounds?”

the GOAT center has spoken :bowdown:

it's funny because kareem has literally zero bias in this discussion. before he retired, the bulls were the lakers and celtics whipping boys. :oldlol: overall, cap makes a solid argument too.

[oh the horror]

I'm not mad at that. A lot of people underrate Big O.

[juju151111]

the GOAT center has spoken :bowdown:

it's funny because kareem has literally zero bias in this discussion. before he retired, the bulls were the lakers and celtics whipping boys. :oldlol: overall, cap makes a solid argument too.
Great, Mj still the Goat by majority.:applause:

[outbreak]

the GOAT center has spoken :bowdown:

it's funny because kareem has literally zero bias in this discussion. before he retired, the bulls were the lakers and celtics whipping boys. :oldlol: overall, cap makes a solid argument too.
:coleman:

[poido123]

The big O is out of most people's top 10.


I guess we are all alltime greats :applause:

[AnaheimLakers24]

http://sportswriters.net/usbwa/awards/oscar/action_oscar_ncaa.jpg
pretty athletic

[SouBeachTalents]

Jordan will always be > than LeBron though

[Nuff Said]

Got damn that pic.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

I love Oscar, one of my all-time favorite players.

[mehyaM24]

:coleman:
well not literally - but yes, i dont believe he does seeing his pro AND college career are safely ahead of everyone elses :cheers:

many ex players have gone on record recently saying either wilt, kareem or russell are the greatest (if i'm not mistaken, chris webber had kareem as GOAT last week on TNT). hell, scottie pippen said lebron is arguably the greatest well-rounded player in history which is a huge revelation.

it's refreshing to see players of all perspectives recognize greatness - much better than your typical parrot adhering to mythology and hyperbole.

[poido123]

I love Oscar, one of my all-time favorite players.



Who here watched him Play?


Exactly.

[senelcoolidge]

Well I wouldn't say that Kareem isn't biased. He won't say Wilt is the GOAT..they had bad blood during their NBA playing careers. But yeah, Big O has become underrated.

[mehyaM24]

Who here watched him Play?


Exactly.
educate yourself, bud

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMckqjbYgSo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMZwOr6eJyk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSm-k7IJuz4

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Elgin And Oscar are both underrated. Same with Pettit, who is completely forgotten when we talk about the greatest PFs.

[poido123]

well not literally - but yes, i dont believe he does seeing his pro AND college career are safely ahead of everyone elses :cheers:

many ex players have gone on record recently saying either wilt, kareem or russell are the greatest (if i'm not mistaken, chris webber had kareem as GOAT last week on TNT). hell, scottie pippen said lebron is arguably the greatest well-rounded player in history which is a huge revelation.

it's refreshing to see players of all perspectives recognize greatness - much better than your typical parrot adhering to mythology and hyperbole.


The Jordan hate flows through you like no other :applause:

For every guy that declares Kareem goat, there will be 4 who will say jordan.

I'm cool with any of Wilt, Kareem, Russell etc but let's not act like MJ doesn't get most of the votes.

[Quickening]

The Jordan hate flows through you like no other :applause:

For every guy that declares Kareem goat, there will be 4 who will say jordan.

I'm cool with any of Wilt, Kareem, Russell etc but let's not act like MJ doesn't get most of the votes.

Yes and if you asked most football/soccer fans alive now, they would have Ronaldo and Messi as the best footballers ever, lacking knowledge and being brainwashed by media (nike) doesn't make it true.

[mehyaM24]

The Jordan hate flows through you like no other :applause:

For every guy that declares Kareem goat, there will be 4 who will say jordan.

I'm cool with any of Wilt, Kareem, Russell etc but let's not act like MJ doesn't get most of the votes.

you have jordan as goat, many young fans do - i'm fine with that.

to me, he's the best sg ever. when it pertains to impacting the game, though, i dont think he can match what wilt, kareem and shaq (at his absolute best) brought to the table.

truthfully, without team accolades, i believe jordan = lebron, lebron is just bigger/faster/stronger. that's only my opinion, though.

[poido123]

you have jordan as goat, many young fans do - i'm fine with that.

to me, he's the best sg ever. when it pertains to impacting the game, though, i dont think he can match what wilt, kareem and shaq (at his absolute best) brought to the table.

truthfully, without team accolades, i believe jordan = lebron, lebron is just bigger/faster/stronger. that's just my opinion, though.


I'll admit that shaqs prime may be better than jordan's, he was unstoppable.

Wilt never won enough or raised his level in the playoffs for me to have him over jordan. If you simply looked at video game Stats? Sure, he won in a landslide.
.
Kareem played with a top 10 alltime point guard and other top 50 players and accumulated a few of his accolades through longevity. Do you reward that? I guess that's up to the individual.

Kareem's resume stacks up pretty well and there really isn't much between him and jordan. It might just come down to if you're a Laker or bulls fan.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Who here watched him Play?


Exactly.

There's this cool little thing called the internet..

[poido123]

There's this cool little thing called the internet..


YouTube highlights...


That tells the whole story :rolleyes:

[Practice?]

I cannot take anything KAJ says seriously. Most jelly NBA superstar of all time.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

YouTube highlights...


That tells the whole story :rolleyes:

It does something. Highlights obviously aren't everything but they're enough to get a decent feel for a player and make a decision as to whether or not I like the way they play.

I'll add that I didn't say anything about how good he was...so who the **** are you to say anything about anyone's favorite players? I didn't call him the GOAT or talk about what he accomplished on the court, I merely said that I loved the guy (obviously based on what I had seen of him). Seems like a pretty useless troll attempt in hindsight.

[Young X]

the GOAT center has spoken :bowdown:

it's funny because kareem has literally zero bias in this discussion. before he retired, the bulls were the lakers and celtics whipping boys. :oldlol: overall, cap makes a solid argument too.How does he have zero bias when Oscar was his TEAMMATE?

And can somoeone explain why Robertson is constantly ranked higher than KG? They had very similar careers...

[G0ATbe]

I agree with him:applause: .

[La Frescobaldi]

Who here watched him Play?


Exactly.

dude was ferocious in the paint. like a freaking rhino on a rampage.

lot of blood on the floor... he had a no-holds-barred I'm going to get that ball and if you get in my way you are going to get hurt attitude... which is missing and has been missing for a long long time from the League.

his eye, or court vision, was fantastic. dude was never flashy, didn't make a lot of fancy passes..... he made razor passes, nearly perfect passes.

straight one on one? Guys could score on him but they ain't rebounding on him, and they ain't stopping him. I doubt anybody but a top tier center could ever beat him because he was big, strong, fast, and too smart to be stopped. {or Jordan... all respect to KAJ I still got to go with Mike in a 1on1}

but the Big O was never about that. He was complete, part of the team, always seeing the whole court and the whole team and getting the ball to the right point wherever that was.

[fpliii]

dude was ferocious in the paint. like a freaking rhino on a rampage.

lot of blood on the floor... he had a no-holds-barred I'm going to get that ball and if you get in my way you are going to get hurt attitude... which is missing and has been missing for a long long time from the League.

his eye, or court vision, was fantastic. dude was never flashy, didn't make a lot of fancy passes..... he made razor passes, nearly perfect passes.

straight one on one? Guys could score on him but they ain't rebounding on him, and they ain't stopping him. I doubt anybody but a top tier center could ever beat him because he was big, strong, fast, and too smart to be stopped. {or Jordan... all respect to KAJ I still got to go with Mike in a 1on1}

but the Big O was never about that. He was complete, part of the team, always seeing the whole court and the whole team and getting the ball to the right point wherever that was.
I forget if it was you who said this or someone else, but wasn't one of his pet shot's a jumper from the corner?

Seems he definitely would be a guy who would benefit from the 3pt line.

[navy]

Doesnt Kareem also sign his name as the NBA leading scorer or something? Dude is mad salty. Jordan is the GOAT guard not debatable.

[knicksman]

Are people really surprised that most losers hate jordan? Kareem is just another wilt who was nothing until magic came to save his ass. But according to the real man(magic) on that team, jordan was the greatest. Only the insecure losers are against jordan.

[SouBeachTalents]

Are people really surprised that most losers hate jordan? Kareem is just another wilt who was nothing until magic came to save his ass. But according to the real man(magic) on that team, jordan was the greatest. Only the insecure losers are against jordan.

All Knicks players from the last 40 years hate Jordan too?

[jongib369]

I forget if it was you who said this or someone else, but wasn't one of his pet shot's a jumper from the corner?

Seems he definitely would be a guy who would benefit from the 3pt line.
If I remember correctly he said that when he used to practice at gyms he'd have to shoot from the corners because people would take the full court....leaving him with the side hoops that have you in the middle of the full court game at the top of your baskets key :lol

[BigMacAttack]

Kareem has no bias...****ing hell what a dumbass thing to say.

[mehyaM24]

Kareem has no bias...****ing hell what a dumbass thing to say.
he really doesn't, though. this is the same guy who feuded with wilt for decades (throwing verbal jabs at wilt in his books) - and just a year or two ago, when he finally got his statue built @ staples, said wilt was the GOAT. the best player he played against.

yeah oscar was his teammate - but not for very long. in fact, oscar is seldom talked about in GOAT discussions.

[The_Pharcyde]

he really doesn't, though. this is the same guy who feuded with wilt for decades (throwing verbal jabs at wilt in his books) - and just a year or two ago, when he finally got his statue built @ staples, said wilt was the GOAT. the best player he played against.

yeah oscar was his teammate - but not for very long. in fact, oscar is seldom talked about in GOAT discussions.


Your BS is very easy to see through

You type in this condescending tone to sound older than you actually are, implying that you have more wisdom/knowledge
You know MJ is the greatest of all time, you just seek the attention more and spend mad hours on here trolling so people will acknowledge you

Btw the same fuel that pumps the "jordan mythology" car(Nike) is the same that lebron uses, null argument

[colts19]

Who here watched him Play?


Exactly.

I did. I even saw him play in high school. That's right I'm really old. I have always said Big O was the greatest non-center I had ever seen. They use to say all Big O did was back you down and shoot over you. Only thing was no one could stop him from doing that. Plus he was a great passer and re bounder he was a fundamental player. For the young folks on here he was the Tim Duncan of guards.

[insidious301]

Your BS is very easy to see through

You type in this condescending tone to sound older than you actually are, implying that you have more wisdom/knowledge
You know MJ is the greatest of all time, you just seek the attention more and spend mad hours on here trolling so people will acknowledge you

Btw the same fuel that pumps the "jordan mythology" car(Nike) is the same that lebron uses, null argument

I don't see that at all. I've had some good discussions with him and Roundball_Rock on here. I haven't been very active on this website, and I really don't know the past history between you guys, but this sounds a lot like slander.

For example, how could you possibly KNOW he thinks Jordan is the GOAT? From my POV, CavsFTW, mehya, Roundball, and Pslies are Wilt/Kareem/Shaq fans that don't subscribe to this belief.

[insidious301]

I also included this quote in a post yesterday I believe (?) -- good to see you making a thread about it.

Oscar Robertson was unreal. If you take John Stockton and added 4 inches, 40-50 lbs muscle, and the low post footwork and head-fakes of MJ, then that's the type of player Oscar was. And that's not hyperbole in any sense. He wasn't explosive athletically, but like Bird, Magic, Duncan, Nash, and Stockton...he didn't have to be. Agility, hand-eye coordination, reflexes, precision (fundamentals), and anticipation can make a player dominant.

I don't consider him a GOAT candidate, but still one of the greatest perimeter players ever.

[mehyaM24]

I don't see that at all. I've had some good discussions with him and Roundball_Rock on here. I haven't been very active on this website, and I really don't know the past history between you guys, but this sounds a lot like slander.

For example, how could you possibly KNOW he thinks Jordan is the GOAT? From my POV, CavsFTW, mehya, Roundball, and Pslies are Wilt/Kareem/Shaq fans that don't subscribe to this belief.

i've literally never seen that guy post. appreciate your sentiments though :cheers:

[OnFire]

YouTube highlights...


That tells the whole story :rolleyes:

sheeeeeeeeit probably half the people on this site only seen Jordan in highlights....

[StephHamann]

the GOAT center has spoken :bowdown:

it's funny because kareem has literally zero bias in this discussion. before he retired, the bulls were the lakers and celtics whipping boys. :oldlol: overall, cap makes a solid argument too.

So the "GOAT CENTER" and the "GOAT GOAT" only won 1 title in the weakest era of basketball together

:lebronamazed:

[BigMacAttack]

he really doesn't, though. this is the same guy who feuded with wilt for decades (throwing verbal jabs at wilt in his books) - and just a year or two ago, when he finally got his statue built @ staples, said wilt was the GOAT. the best player he played against.

yeah oscar was his teammate - but not for very long. in fact, oscar is seldom talked about in GOAT discussions.

Exactly. Kareem on the other hand who is often talked about in goat discussions, picks a player who is regularly ranked below himself(Big O) in all time list as better than the goat.

Other than that though he has proven to be a fairly bitter man and is picking the player who would be considered more from his era, like most old guys do.

[La Frescobaldi]

he really doesn't, though. this is the same guy who feuded with wilt for decades (throwing verbal jabs at wilt in his books) - and just a year or two ago, when he finally got his statue built @ staples, said wilt was the GOAT. the best player he played against.

yeah oscar was his teammate - but not for very long. in fact, oscar is seldom talked about in GOAT discussions.

http://www.aitc.sk.ca/saskschools/animals/deer/moose_bulls.jpg

Two bull moose are not ever going to get along. They ain't built that way.

[305Baller]

I respect Kareem's opinion as I think he was one of the GOAT's but Oscar didn't lead a team to 6 championships. That has to be taken into consideration.

[sportjames23]

the GOAT center has spoken :bowdown:

it's funny because kareem has literally zero bias in this discussion. before he retired, the bulls were the lakers and celtics whipping boys. :oldlol: overall, cap makes a solid argument too.


OP can't help making an ass out of himself.

[poido123]

Your BS is very easy to see through

You type in this condescending tone to sound older than you actually are, implying that you have more wisdom/knowledge
You know MJ is the greatest of all time, you just seek the attention more and spend mad hours on here trolling so people will acknowledge you

Btw the same fuel that pumps the "jordan mythology" car(Nike) is the same that lebron uses, null argument



Brutal post :applause:

[beastee]

Your BS is very easy to see through

You type in this condescending tone to sound older than you actually are, implying that you have more wisdom/knowledge
You know MJ is the greatest of all time, you just seek the attention more and spend mad hours on here trolling so people will acknowledge you

Btw the same fuel that pumps the "jordan mythology" car(Nike) is the same that lebron uses, null argument
/thread. :applause:

[Marchesk]

I respect Kareem's opinion as I think he was one of the GOAT's but Oscar didn't lead a team to 6 championships. That has to be taken into consideration.

Oscar also wasn't drafted onto a team that had Kareem. He got drafted into a conference of Russell, Wilt and Pettit. He was the only non-center to win an MVP in the 60s. Not even West or Baylor in their primes did that.

Magic gets the nod over Oscar because of his amazing 80s success, but let's not pretend like it was the same situation. Oscar was in a similar situation his last 4 years when he teamed up with Kareem on the Bucks. That was after Oscar's prime. And they were yearly contenders, winning one, losing a conference final to a great Knicks team, and losing a conference finals to Wilt and West's great 72 Lakers.

In all this ranking players based on team success, we're ignoring the differences between teams. Magic had a loaded deck to play with for much of his career. And he was playing in a weaker conference. Oscar didn't have that sort of team until his last 4 years. He had to play in Wilt and Russell's conference. So we really shouldn't rate Magic over Oscar just based on team success. It's not fair.

[CavaliersFTW]

I'll post this here again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjO3hZKgdLc

sample footage/testimony for the upcoming Oscar mix

Oscar looks like a 2/3rds sized ground bound Lebron James (6-4 and 3/4 without shoes aka 6-6 same height as MJ/Kobe/Barkley) and 220lbs on a wide truck-like frame. But he played with a nasty nasty chip on his shoulder, like he wasn't hesitant to just destroy his opponents and silence critics. That win at all costs kind of competitor. When he has the ball in his hands he looks like an absolute load to handle for the opponents... like you don't handle him at all really, just have to take the punishment that's about to happen and hope you can answer on the other end.

[305Baller]

Oscar Robinson was awesome from the footage I've seen and I feel that D Wade is the modern incarnation of the Big O.

The stats may not support it but I just feel that aesthetically they are very similar and that if Oscar would have played in the league today his game would be about the same as Wade's.

[Simple Jack]

There is some bias with anyone's answer on such a topic. I assume that with older players, you'll typically see a preference to players who played during the same era. To suggest there is no bias is silly though. It's just human nature.


On another note - using player quotes as some indisputable proof is equally silly. You have posters on the forum pulling out quotes from former/current players to prove their point all the time with the reasoning being that "____ played in the NBA so his opinion is clearly >> yours." The problem however, is that you can find quotes from plenty of players saying completely opposite things where that same logic can be used.

[mehyaM24]

I'll post this here again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjO3hZKgdLc

sample footage/testimony for the upcoming Oscar mix

Oscar looks like a 2/3rds sized ground bound Lebron James (6-4 and 3/4 without shoes aka 6-6 same height as MJ/Kobe/Barkley) and 220lbs on a wide truck-like frame. But he played with a nasty nasty chip on his shoulder, like he wasn't hesitant to just destroy his opponents and silence critics. That win at all costs kind of competitor. When he has the ball in his hands he looks like an absolute load to handle for the opponents... like you don't handle him at all really, just have to take the punishment that's about to happen and hope you can answer on the other end.

good to see NON trolls keep this thread on track. :applause:

i did and i agree with kareem, who played with him. oscar is underrated (and in that tier with jordan, bird etc). there is no doubt that in his prime, he was like lebron - a master of all trades. the league was different, and while today players go against better defense IMO, offensive players are too protected by rule changes. also there were fewer teams back then so the talent level on each team could have been greater, making the games more competitive.

nice clips btw, brah :cheers:

[DatAsh]

There is some bias with anyone's answer on such a topic. I assume that with older players, you'll typically see a preference to players who played during the same era. To suggest there is no bias is silly though. It's just human nature.


On another note - using player quotes as some indisputable proof is equally silly. You have posters on the forum pulling out quotes from former/current players to prove their point all the time with the reasoning being that "____ played in the NBA so his opinion is clearly >> yours." The problem however, is that you can find quotes from plenty of players saying completely opposite things where that same logic can be used.

I agree with this.

There's been a lot of these threads popping up lately, more than usual: "Jackson said it's harder to score in the 80s/90s", "Thibs said it's harder to score today", "Stu Jackson said it's easier to score today", "Hakeem said Jordan is the best", "Oscar said Lebron is the best", "Pippen said Jordan is the best", "Pippen said Lebron is the best.

Kinda tiresome. Credible people can be just as biased the rest of us, and I doubt they spend as much time as us thinking about these silly comparisons. People pick and choose these guys comments/opinions to support their own personal biases, and then completely ignore any contradictory opinion. Truth is, you can find a credible player/coach comment to support any opinion.

[k0kakw0rld]

The big O is out of most people's top 10.


I guess we are all alltime greats :applause:
No way he is not top 10.

Nobody will ever average a triple double in a season. especially a 30+ ppg 10+ apg and 10+ rpg

show respect.

[navy]

I agree with this.

There's been a lot of these threads popping up lately, more than usual: "Jackson said it's harder to score in the 80s/90s", "Thibs said it's harder to score today", "Stu Jackson said it's easier to score today", "Hakeem said Jordan is the best", "Oscar said Lebron is the best", "Pippen said Jordan is the best", "Pippen said Lebron is the best.

Kinda tiresome. Credible people can be just as biased the rest of us, and I doubt they spend as much time as us thinking about these silly comparisons. People pick and choose these guys comments/opinions to support their own personal biases, and then completely ignore any contradictory opinion. Truth is, you can find a credible player/coach comment to support any opinion.
In other words none of these people are credible.

[mehyaM24]

No way he is not top 10.

Nobody will ever average a triple double in a season. especially a 30+ ppg 10+ apg and 10+ rpg

show respect.

based on impact? agreed. he's got to be top 10, or at least on the tier with the "greatest" perimeter players. i've often wondered why O was never on anyone's list. he barely cracks the top five on most. at his best, the guy had B2B seasons of ~30/12/9 and SIX seasons of ~30/9/9. incredible - absolutely insane.

where do you rate him?

[k0kakw0rld]

based on impact? agreed. he's got to be top 10, or at least on the tier with the "greatest" perimeter players. i've often wondered why O was never on anyone's list. he barely cracks the top five on most. at his best, the guy had B2B seasons of ~30/12/9 and SIX seasons of ~30/9/9. incredible - absolutely insane.

where do you rate him?
1.KAJ/MJ
2.MJ/KAJ
3.Wilt
4.Bill
5.Duncan
6.Magic
7.Bird
8.Shaq
9.Hakeem
10.Big O
11.Kobe

[mehyaM24]

1.KAJ/MJ
2.MJ/KAJ
3.Wilt
4.Bill
5.Duncan
6.Magic
7.Bird
8.Shaq
9.Hakeem
10.Big O
11.Kobe

not bad :cheers:

you don't think lebron has done enough to have a place in your top 10? i'm not complaining just wondering.

[305Baller]

Oscar also wasn't drafted onto a team that had Kareem. He got drafted into a conference of Russell, Wilt and Pettit. He was the only non-center to win an MVP in the 60s. Not even West or Baylor in their primes did that.

Magic gets the nod over Oscar because of his amazing 80s success, but let's not pretend like it was the same situation. Oscar was in a similar situation his last 4 years when he teamed up with Kareem on the Bucks. That was after Oscar's prime. And they were yearly contenders, winning one, losing a conference final to a great Knicks team, and losing a conference finals to Wilt and West's great 72 Lakers.

In all this ranking players based on team success, we're ignoring the differences between teams. Magic had a loaded deck to play with for much of his career. And he was playing in a weaker conference. Oscar didn't have that sort of team until his last 4 years. He had to play in Wilt and Russell's conference. So we really shouldn't rate Magic over Oscar just based on team success. It's not fair.

I was talking about Jordan. Magic won 5 titles.

[TheMan]

he really doesn't, though. this is the same guy who feuded with wilt for decades (throwing verbal jabs at wilt in his books) - and just a year or two ago, when he finally got his statue built @ staples, said wilt was the GOAT. the best player he played against.

yeah oscar was his teammate - but not for very long. in fact, oscar is seldom talked about in GOAT discussions.
So a guy that seldoms gets mentioned in Top 10 GOAT talks is greater than a player who is at the very least, always in top 3 GOAT debates...dat ISH logic :rolleyes:

Anyways, Magic Johnson has repeatedly called Jordan the GOAT and he was KAJ's teammate :oldlol: . He's gone as far as saying Jordan would tear LeBron a new one 1 on 1 and tht he'd win 10/10 pick up games. I disagree, James could win a couple, then Jordan would get mad and that would be it.:lol

[Collie]

The Jordan hate flows through you like no other :applause:

For every guy that declares Kareem goat, there will be 4 who will say jordan.

I'm cool with any of Wilt, Kareem, Russell etc but let's not act like MJ doesn't get most of the votes.

This. He is literally on a pedestal along with guys like Ali and Babe Ruth. He's not Ronaldo or Messi, he's goddamn Pele.

[dunksby]

Kareem is just trying to give a great player, whom the media doesn't show respect much, some due credit. Too many people already consider MJ the GOAT player and the majority of those people do it because of 6/6 not because they watched Jordan. The point is just because Big O doesn't have many rings it doesn't mean he was an inferior basketball player.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Well I wouldn't say that Kareem isn't biased. He won't say Wilt is the GOAT..they had bad blood during their NBA playing careers. But yeah, Big O has become underrated.


Yeah they had bad blood between each other because Kareem was a rookie that was already in his prime, while Wilt was old, flabby, jealous and sick of Kareem when he first came into the league. Wilt just didn't wanna pass the torch to Kareem, but he had no choice but to.

[CasterL]

Kareem and oscar come across as two of the grumpiest bitter old timers around. They both feel slighted and under appreciated so im not suprised by this

[Asukal]

Pffft another guy who accomplished nothing outside of stats. :whatever:

[colts19]

Pffft another guy who accomplished nothing outside of stats. :whatever:

Same shit different day. That's like saying MJ accomplished nothing outside of stats in the 80's. When will people see that it's a team game. Nobody can do it by themselves. Big O, Wilt, Kareem, Bird, Magic all had help when they won, as did everyone else. :facepalm :facepalm

[riseagainst]

how is Kareem not biased? He won his first championship with Oscar.

[bizil]

GOAT wise, Big O has no case over MJ. Peak wise, the debate is actually A LOT CLOSER! The main edge MJ has on Big O is the defensive side of the rock. And it doesn't hurt that MJ was an epic freak athlete too! So peak wise, I would take MJ too. But I think Big O is the best offensive player of all time (scoring and passing as a package) though. His numbers and ability speak for themselves in that regard.

And when guys like MJ and Kobe get older in their careers, they used a lot of the scoring skillset that Big O put on the map to continue to dominate. I've heard Kobe give Big O props and he said he watched tapes of O.

[Asukal]

Same shit different day. That's like saying MJ accomplished nothing outside of stats in the 80's. When will people see that it's a team game. Nobody can do it by themselves. Big O, Wilt, Kareem, Bird, Magic all had help when they won, as did everyone else. :facepalm :facepalm

Bolded is true so what? He still went on to lead his team getting better every year till they finally won. What are we supposed to do? Judge players based on statistics alone? :facepalm

Fact is Jordan accomplished more, that's why he is in the GOAT discussion and deservedly so. Big O's stats alone would put him in contention for top 15 or top 10. That's not disrespect, that's his rightful place in the all time list and it means he was one of the best who ever played. Agenda driven threads like this one deserves to be trolled. :kobe:

[BIZARRO]

Once Oscar got out of the stats inflated era, his stats went way down in Milwaukee. Which is fine but, as he was older and playing with Kareem (who has crazy bias in his comments)...

At 35, Oscar was averaging just 12.7 ppg and on his way out, as Mike was scoring 45 points in Game 6 to win the Regular Season and Finals MVP. Soak that in.
I'm on the Oscar wagon as much as anyone and think he SEVERELY underrated, especially on here, but Mike is Mike. And the GOAT because of his playoff performances.


Sorry, if Mike played when Oscar did, Mike would have way more than one chip and one MVP. There goes the Oscar argument Kareem.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Kareem, Big O, and Wilt were the holy trinity of salty MJ haters. I wonder why ... maybe because he was better than all three? They never gave him his just due. Meanwhile: West, Bird, Magic, and everyone else called him GOAT.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Kareem, Big O, and Wilt were the holy trinity of salty MJ haters.

lol So true.

[Psileas]

There haven't been as many praising quotes for any post shot clock player who isn't generally considered top 10 GOAT as for Oscar. And, no, I didn't even include quotes from the "holy trinity of salty MJ haters":

"He is so great-he scares me" -Red Auerbach

"He obviously was unbelievable, way ahead of his time. There is no more complete player than Oscar." -Jerry Lucas

"Oscar (Robertson) is certainly the greatest player who ever played. They want to give that to Jordan, but Jordan really did not have to play against the same type of players. If somebody were to really study it – and I'm talking off the top of my head, so maybe statistically people can refute this – when Magic left, who were the great players? I think Karl Malone was the greatest player still circulating around when Jordan was doing all those things. Who was Jordan playing against?… If you think in terms of the skills that are required to play the game of basketball – that's the best way for me to break it down – Oscar had mastery over all of the skills. I don't know of any skill that Oscar didn't have. The reason that I said that I would take Chamberlain first is because you have to start in the middle. If that's a contradiction, then I would say Chamberlain, Oscar, Frazier and then Jordan” -Warren Jabali

"Oscar couldn't fly, but he did everything else better than Michael Jordan." -Nate Thurmond

“Oscar Robertson, without a doubt, was by far the most complete player and the best player to this day. Of course I’m loyal to my era. Michael Jordan was unbelievable. Kobe Bryant is unbelievable. But to me, Oscar Robertson is, was, and still is the best of all time in my book.” -Dolph Schayes

“You can make the case that he was the best basketball ever. Period.” –Jerry Reynolds

"He was unbelievable and somebody should do a movie about this guy. He is the greatest athlete in the history of sports in this country who has been overlooked."
-Rick Barry

"He was the Michael Jordan of his day. In a lot of ways." -Red Auerbach

"If Oscar were playing today against Michael, we would have a huge argument going on." -Chuck Daly

[colts19]

Once Oscar got out of the stats inflated era, his stats went way down in Milwaukee. Which is fine but, as he was older and playing with Kareem (who has crazy bias in his comments)...

At 35, Oscar was averaging just 12.7 ppg and on his way out, as Mike was scoring 45 points in Game 6 to win the Regular Season and Finals MVP. Soak that in.
I'm on the Oscar wagon as much as anyone and think he SEVERELY underrated, especially on here, but Mike is Mike. And the GOAT because of his playoff performances.


Sorry, if Mike played when Oscar did, Mike would have way more than one chip and one MVP. There goes the Oscar argument Kareem.

I think you may slightly overrate MJ, and greatly underrate what playing in the same conf. as Russell and Wilt might do to your legacy.

[andgar923]

I never saw him play, nor will I pretend that I did.

But for those that did, what did he do that was actually better than MJ?

I've seen clips and game footage, but I honestly can't see what he did that was better. I can however see an argument being made that he was his era's version of Lebron.

Again, I might be completely wrong since I didn't see him play live.

[OldSchoolBBall]

"Oscar couldn't fly, but he did everything else better than Michael Jordan." -Nate Thurmond


Except, you know, play defense and score. His rebounding isn't even that much better than Jordan's if at all once you account for pace.

[colts19]

Except, you know, play defense and score. His rebounding isn't even that much better than Jordan's if at all once you account for pace.
He could score close to MJ. He could run a teams offense better than MJ. His defense was better than most think. He could defend people in the Post area better than Jordan.

Jordan was the best perimeter offense and defensive player ever. But people talk like he was better at everything than anyother player ever. It's just not true. I am not a Jordan hater, I put him in my top 2 or 3 non big players of all time, which is not an insult.

[T_L_P]

He could score close to MJ. He could run a teams offense better than MJ. His defense was better than most think. He could defend people in the Post area better than Jordan.

Jordan was the best perimeter offense and defensive player ever. But people talk like he was better at everything than anyother player ever. It's just not true. I am not a Jordan hater, I put him in my top 2 or 3 non big players of all time, which is not an insult.

Who is 1/2/?

[andgar923]

He could score close to MJ. He could run a teams offense better than MJ. His defense was better than most think. He could defend people in the Post area better than Jordan.

Jordan was the best perimeter offense and defensive player ever. But people talk like he was better at everything than anyother player ever. It's just not true. I am not a Jordan hater, I put him in my top 2 or 3 non big players of all time, which is not an insult.

:lol :lol :lol

[Psileas]

Except, you know, play defense and score. His rebounding isn't even that much better than Jordan's if at all once you account for pace.

This isn't my quote, I added quotes to show that Oscar enjoys much more respect among peers than most message boarders give him credit for.

[OldSchoolBBall]

He could score close to MJ.

No, he couldn't. Unless you think that AT LEAST a 10% difference peak vs. peak on better efficiency is a small matter.


He could run a teams offense better than MJ.

No one said otherwise.


His defense was better than most think.

No one said otherwise. But there is a yawning gulf between "better than most people think" and "better than Jordan defensively" (which the quote I was responding to implies). Oscar wasn't even close to Jerry West, a contemporary of his, defensively, let alone Jordan.


He could defend people in the Post area better than Jordan.

No, he couldn't, and I challenge you to substantiate this in any way, shape or form.


Jordan was the best perimeter offense and defensive player ever. But people talk like he was better at everything than anyother player ever. It's just not true.

Who said that? Stop knocking down imaginary strawmen. The FACT of the matter is that Oscar was not as good a scorer as Jordan (not particularly close, either), and nowhere near as good defensively. Rebounding is likely equal once you account for pace, possibly a slight edge to Oscar. Passing is Oscar.


I am not a Jordan hater, I put him in my top 2 or 3 non big players of all time, which is not an insult.

Yeah, that is actually an insult considering that the vast majority of people have him as, if not the outright GOAT, the best non-big of all time.

[OldSchoolBBall]

This isn't my quote, I added quotes to show that Oscar enjoys much more respect among peers than most message boarders give him credit for.

I know - I fixed the attribution in my OP.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Who is 1/2/?

Lebron and Magic, no doubt. Colts19 is on that Lebron Kool-Aid.

[pauk]

Well yea like i always said if Big O was as good as his stats say (ex. he could do that in any era) then he is easily the greatest allround perimeter player of all time.... at least talent/skill wise...

[Blue&Orange]

Yes and if you asked most football/soccer fans alive now, they would have Ronaldo and Messi as the best footballers ever, lacking knowledge and being brainwashed by media (nike) doesn't make it true.
Oh the irony. :lol :roll: :lol A lebronstan saying this. :roll: Lebronstans are truly retarded.

[colts19]

Who is 1/2/?
I have Magic, Oscar and MJ in the same tier. I have a hard time putting them in order due to the different things they bring to the game.

They all make their teams better in different ways. I have watched them all and I am just making the point that If you don't have Big O in the conversation you just haven't seen enough of him. Everything in context. JMHO.

[ArbitraryWater]

Lebron and Magic, no doubt. Colts19 is on that Lebron Kool-Aid.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10896382&postcount=1

[greymatter]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10896382&postcount=1

Not much can be said about Jordan stans other than that they are almost as far up their hero's asses as the Kobe and Lebron stans.

The biggest difference between Jordan and Robertson is that Jordan never had to face 2 of the 3 greatest centers of all time for nearly his entire playing career (whom also happened to be in the same conference). One guy got to face 5 different finals opponents while the other got to face the greatest basketball dynasty.

[bizil]

I think with MJ, u got a player who had the great all around game of an Oscar, West, or Hondo before him. He then COMBINED it with the freak athletic ability of a Dr. J. So MJ was flawless in a way NO PLAYER before him had been. With the bigs, u could argue Wilt, Kareem, or Shaq for who u would want peak wise.

In terms of perimeter guys, I think MJ has the market cornered peak wise on that clearly. From there u got the guys like Big O, Bird, Magic, Kobe, Lebron, and West. That's not dissing Big O at all. I just think MJ's defense and athletic ability separates him from Big O

[colts19]

I think with MJ, u got a player who had the great all around game of an Oscar, West, or Hondo before him. He then COMBINED it with the freak athletic ability of a Dr. J. So MJ was flawless in a way NO PLAYER before him had been. With the bigs, u could argue Wilt, Kareem, or Shaq for who u would want peak wise.

In terms of perimeter guys, I think MJ has the market cornered peak wise on that clearly. From there u got the guys like Big O, Bird, Magic, Kobe, Lebron, and West. That's not dissing Big O at all. I just think MJ's defense and athletic ability separates him from Big O

I wouldn't argue with your position. Like I said to me it's to close to call.