How bad is Rose, Stats wise?

[tamaraw08]

Every stat category has been down compared to his career stats EXCEPT turnovers which is waay high.:(
91th in the league in assist to turnover ratio 1.52.
34th in assists but only bec he plays a ton of mins. MIssed the top 50 in assists/game per 48 mins.
PF Blake Giffin and ball hogs, KObe, Wade, Harden has more assist/game than him, even the old Mo Williams.
The sooner he realize that he is NOT the best player in his team, that he needs to take a back seat and feed Pau and Butler the ball, the better for the Bulls.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

His shooting numbers are bad (.408/.299/.809) but he's posting the same usage rate as his MVP season...and he's picking up just short of 5 assists a game.

His raw per game numbers (18.6/3.2/4.9) are decent but I don't think that he's contributing much of anything this season, at least based on what I've seen of his stats. The Bulls as a team have posted a 105.2/102.4 OFF/DEF EFF line so far this season, Rose's personal line is 98/109.

We'll have to wait and see if he can rediscover his MVP form but the stats paint an ugly picture.

[gts]

what're his win loss numbers? they're the only ones that matter

context matters of course but he's had enough talent around him for his career that wins and losses can be used as a gauge

[Practice?]

Bad enough to not make the all star team.

[Marchesk]

Waiting for the eye test.

[Dengness9]

The two things Derrick needs to do:

1) set his teammates up more. He can't finish like he use to but he is still freakish getting into the paint and drawing multiple defenders. Time to turn those plays into assists on a consistent basis.

2) stop taking a 3pt shot to start the game. It never goes in and sets an unnecessary tone for the rest of the game. Turn that first shot into a mid range j or floater and he'll make that first bucket 50% of the time if not more.

[ArbitraryWater]

what're his win loss numbers? they're the only ones that matter

context matters of course but he's had enough talent around him for his career that wins and losses can be used as a gauge

:roll:

dat Kobetard mentality

[RoundMoundOfReb]

what're his win loss numbers? they're the only ones that matter

context matters of course but he's had enough talent around him for his career that wins and losses can be used as a gauge
They're the same as Doug Mcdermott and Tony Snell's

[Dengness9]

They're the same as Doug Mcdermott and Tony Snell's

What about E'Twaun Moore?:no:

[tontoz]

In b4 "but..but.. intangibles".

[Dengness9]

The most important part of the regular season and playoffs are still to come.

50 games in, nothing has been decided.

[greatest-ever]

Well lets see 19 3 5 on 41 fg% 50 ts% 16 PER

He's pretty inefficient on volume that isn't even impressive, isnt getting assists as a point guard and below average defense or at best average.
Rose is nothing more than a slightly above average player at this point honestly. Def not an elite point guard.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Well lets see 19 3 5 on 41 fg% 50 ts% 16 PER

He's pretty inefficient on volume that isn't even impressive, isnt getting assists as a point guard and below average defense or at best average.
Rose is nothing more than a slightly above average player at this point honestly. Def not an elite point guard.

He's ranked 22nd among qualified PG's in PER, 54th in TS%, 21st in EWA, 51st in turnover ratio, 67th in assist ratio...slightly above average is kind relative to where his stats are.

[gts]

:roll:

dat Kobetard mentalitycompared to a box score watcher like you who clearly never watches a game I'll take that as a compliment

now quick go sign into one of your other accounts and pat yourself on the back for that mindless post of your's with some other mindless reply like rekt, ethered or topkek lol

while your at it make sure to rep yourself again, lord knows that's the only way you'll stay green

[greatest-ever]

He's ranked 22nd among qualified PG's in PER, 54th in TS%, 21st in EWA, 51st in turnover ratio, 67th in assist ratio...slightly above average is kind relative to where his stats are.
Being rated in the 50s or 60s in some of those categories you named isnt good.

Like i said he's a slightly above average player this season.

[Pointguard]

Every stat category has been down compared to his career stats EXCEPT turnovers which is waay high.:(
91th in the league in assist to turnover ratio 1.52.
34th in assists but only bec he plays a ton of mins. MIssed the top 50 in assists/game per 48 mins.
PF Blake Giffin and ball hogs, KObe, Wade, Harden has more assist/game than him, even the old Mo Williams.
The sooner he realize that he is NOT the best player in his team, that he needs to take a back seat and feed Pau and Butler the ball, the better for the Bulls.
Do you watch the games??? Pau and Butler suffered greatly since teams have decided to pack in on them. Which forces Rose to become a shooter and try too hard to compensate for the teams staleness offensively. Sure, the Bulls lack smooth execution and Rose has been a big part of that, but over the last ten games there were only three games above 3 Turnovers. So that is beginning to change. However the problem since the beginning of the year is still there: spacing, shooting, flatness of overall execution, lack of cuts, predictability and lack of plays where four players touch the ball.

I love Butler's game but if he's the man, that means the plan is for next year. He's never lead before and good scouting seemingly affects him. And playoff teams scout very well. He will need some familiarity with role if they are going to win it.

Pau might be better off the bench. He's a great starter/player but Thibes doesn't run plays where Butler can post and Rose drives largely because of poor spacing... or Pau's space consumption. Pau came into the year super inspired and the grind of the East has wore him down some. The higher seed bigs are the guys he has trouble with: Nene, Mozgoz and Horford all bullied him recently, so yeah, you have to worry if a series goes six games.

The shooters and the improvement of Noah/Rose will mean alot for the team. One of those guys has to lead the team if they go deep into the playoffs.

[navy]

He's not going to be back this year. Although, I always said he should get two-years to return to form.

[Jacks3]

Put Rose on a team with good spacing and he'd look much better. Every single star guard would see a decline in efficiency if they were on this Bulls team.

[tamaraw08]

Do you watch the games??? Pau and Butler suffered greatly since teams have decided to pack in on them. Which forces Rose to become a shooter and try too hard to compensate for the teams staleness offensively. Sure, the Bulls lack smooth execution and Rose has been a big part of that, but over the last ten games there were only three games above 3 Turnovers. So that is beginning to change. However the problem since the beginning of the year is still there: spacing, shooting, flatness of overall execution, lack of cuts, predictability and lack of plays where four players touch the ball.

I love Butler's game but if he's the man, that means the plan is for next year. He's never lead before and good scouting seemingly affects him. And playoff teams scout very well. He will need some familiarity with role if they are going to win it.

Pau might be better off the bench. He's a great starter/player but Thibes doesn't run plays where Butler can post and Rose drives largely because of poor spacing... or Pau's space consumption. Pau came into the year super inspired and the grind of the East has wore him down some. The higher seed bigs are the guys he has trouble with: Nene, Mozgoz and Horford all bullied him recently, so yeah, you have to worry if a series goes six games.

The shooters and the improvement of Noah/Rose will mean alot for the team. One of those guys has to lead the team if they go deep into the playoffs.
Yes, I watch the games and I disagree that Rose should keep shooting from 25 feet just bec teams pack it in etc.
Same team last year, same coach, with a much more passive Butler, less efficient Boozer instead of Pau and yet DJ Augustine took 2.2 3pt shots/game

Rondo, Tony Parker, peak Andre Miller etc don't take a ton of 3pt shots bec they know it's a bad shot esp if they are aware that their % is not good.
There are other ways to contribute, ask Tony Allen, Patrick Beverley etc.
Pau actually has been positioning himself waay too far to create space of Rose and other penetrators so I don't buy this esp when Memphis uses 2 post players but anyway, the thread is about Rose' awful stats, as in assist/turnover ratio.
Houston game tonight, Rose had 2 assists and 3 turnovers, plus 9 3pt shots.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

He's playing like a moron. 9 3pas today...WTF

[Smoke117]

He's playing like a moron. 9 3pas today...WTF

He's averaging 8 attempts over the last 5 games...while shooting 17%. It baffles me how all these players can just be chucking away from 3pt land this season...players that aren't even that good from that distance in the first place.

[greatest-ever]

He's not going to be back this year. Although, I always said he should get two-years to return to form.
I don't know why you think it's a given that he even will. If you expect him to have another season like 2011 you'll end up being disappointed.

[navy]

I don't know why you think it's a given that he even will. If you expect him to have another season like 2011 you'll end up being disappointed.
Maybe not MVP level, but top 5 point guard

[tamaraw08]

Put Rose on a team with good spacing and he'd look much better. Every single star guard would see a decline in efficiency if they were on this Bulls team.

wow, this year, Brooks is averaging 45% for the 3pt area.
Last year, Augustin shot 41% from 25 feet.
2 yrs ago Nate Rob ave 40.5% while Kirk shot 39%.

[russwest0]

He averaged 16/4/3 with 3 turnovers per game on 35% shooting last year.

Not sure what people expected from him this year.

[Pointguard]

Yes, I watch the games and I disagree that Rose should keep shooting from 25 feet just bec teams pack it in etc.

Rondo, Tony Parker, peak Andre Miller etc don't take a ton of 3pt shots bec they know it's a bad shot esp if they are aware that their % is not good.
There are other ways to contribute, ask Tony Allen, Patrick Beverley etc.
Pau actually has been positioning himself waay too far to create space of Rose and other penetrators so I don't buy this esp when Memphis uses 2 post players but anyway, the thread is about Rose' awful stats, as in assist/turnover ratio.
Houston game tonight, Rose had 2 assists and 3 turnovers, plus 9 3pt shots.
Houston game tonight??? Rose was still the most effective player offensively.

1)Are you seriously trying to compare the spacing of those teams with the current Bulls? You don't watch Memphis either.

2)You are asking more of Gasol, who is having one of his most productive years in his career, 4 years after a steady decline. Plus he's 34 years old in his 14th year. Gasol has never taken 15 FGA in his career and is at 14.7 now.

3)You are asking more of Butler who is having by far his best year and taking 4 more shots per game.

4)Butler hasn't been posting up as of late and that's not because of Rose and has everything to do with floor spacing.

5)Thibes project is that Pau isn't going to be much better, and the team needs Rose is obvious as day.

6)You are suggesting that the team be turned over to Pau and Butler over Rose and Noah who are both more natural leaders.

7)Already agreed Rose takes too many three's but he's improving in every category and will make biggest leap in improvement after the all star break because of the rest. Which is just the investment that Thibes is making.

[Pointguard]

wow, this year, Brooks is averaging 45% for the 3pt area.
Last year, Augustin shot 41% from 25 feet.
2 yrs ago Nate Rob ave 40.5% while Kirk shot 39%.

Stat wise yeah you are right. But Rose is waaay better than they are right now, turnovers and all. And lately he's been making that shot. Still takes too many. But your post is a bit late as Rose right now, isn't representative of the stats in your OP. And you aren't showing where you think the shots should be coming from.

[Ariza4three]

Houston game tonight??? Rose was still the most effective player offensively.

1)Are you seriously trying to compare the spacing of those teams with the current Bulls? You don't watch Memphis either.

2)You are asking more of Gasol, who is having one of his most productive years in his career, 4 years after a steady decline. Plus he's 34 years old in his 14th year. Gasol has never taken 15 FGA in his career and is at 14.7 now.

3)You are asking more of Butler who is having by far his best year and taking 4 more shots per game.

4)Butler hasn't been posting up as of late and that's not because of Rose and has everything to do with floor spacing.

5)Thibes project is that Pau isn't going to be much better, and the team needs Rose is obvious as day.

6)You are suggesting that the team be turned over to Pau and Butler over Rose and Noah who are both more natural leaders.

7)Already agreed Rose takes too many three's but he's improving in every category and will make biggest leap in improvement after the all star break because of the rest. Which is just the investment that Thibes is making.
why are you so ****ing stupid?
butler had 27/6 on 50%

Rose had 23/4 on 40%

[Ariza4three]

Stat wise yeah you are right. But Rose is waaay better than they are right now, turnovers and all. And lately he's been making that shot. Still takes too many. But your post is a bit late as Rose right now, isn't representative of the stats in your OP. And you aren't showing where you think the shots should be coming from.
Rose has been making what shot lately? The 3? He was 2-9 tonight from 3.

[Pointguard]

why are you so ****ing stupid?
butler had 27/6 on 50%

Rose had 23/4 on 40% Another stat idiot.
Butler got like ten points after the lead was 15 points. About six after the game was decided. It means more when the game is competitive.

Rose has been making what shot lately? The 3? He was 2-9 tonight from 3.
Lately means more than one game. I didn't say tonight's game for a reason.

[Ariza4three]

Another stat idiot.
Butler got like ten points after the lead was 15 points. About six after the game was decided. It means more when the game is competitive.

Lately means more than one game. I didn't say tonight's game for a reason.
Over the last 5 he's shooting 17% and shooting 8 per game. You're a ****ing moron.

[tamaraw08]

Stat wise yeah you are right. But Rose is waaay better than they are right now, turnovers and all. And lately he's been making that shot. Still takes too many. But your post is a bit late as Rose right now, isn't representative of the stats in your OP. And you aren't showing where you think the shots should be coming from.

wow, Rose the past 5 games is shooting 17% from the 3pt area, 5.2 turnovers at 3.2 assists per game. So where exactly are you getting your facts from. :confusedshrug:

Where do I think Rose should take his shots from?
It's bad enough that he is taking 8 3pt shots/game the past 5 games but he is also taking a total of 24.2 attempts with 3 assists per game. It's like taking 8 shots, then he decides to pass the ball. I know, he should be getting more assists esp if Kirk, Mirotic etc can nail their shots but 24 shots for a PG, really. :facepalm
Conley is taking 13 shots and he doesn't have Butler but Tony Allen or Lee next to him in the perimeter.
Imo, He should limit his attempts to not more than 16 ESP if he is not making them, do more directing, as in calling the right plays, ask Pau to get in the right scoring position, encourage Noah and Taj to take 4-5 jump hooks. Set up Aaron Brooks and/or Snell by drawing the defense.
The freaking Jeremy Lin has more assists than Rose(yes, Im talking about the last 5 games)
He should try to drive hard and maybe take those leaners and/or Jump hooks ala Wade.

[SamuraiSWISH]

He's bad period. Shooting way too many 3's. Isn't aggressive going to the hole, or creating for his teammates. Looks lazy on defense. IDK if it's concious decision to save his body or not but no one, especially Rose, is playing hard for Thibs. His oppressive, slave owner style has worn thin and guy's are tuning him out. That's why their defense sucks.

[Pointguard]

wow, Rose the past 5 games is shooting 17% from the 3pt area, 5.2 turnovers at 3.2 assists per game. So where exactly are you getting your facts from. :confusedshrug:

Lately can be ten games, 15 games, whatever, if you are following Ariza welcome to 8th grade maybe 9th grade? If you watch the games Rose's long distance shot has much better form and alignment and don't have that flatness to it. Ray Allen has had terrible stretches. These road games of late have gone very wild and he's been missing them just as everybody else on the team has been wild.


Where do I think Rose should take his shots from?
It's bad enough that he is taking 8 3pt shots/game the past 5 games but he is also taking a total of 24.2 attempts with 3 assists per game. It's like taking 8 shots, then he decides to pass the ball. I know, he should be getting more assists esp if Kirk, Mirotic etc can nail their shots but 24 shots for a PG, really. :facepalm
I don't agree with his taking threes at this clip and said as much several times. There might be another thread open right now that's similar to this one. But Rose outdueled the best three pointer shooter in the game. It wasn't pretty but it was the only way to beat the best team in the league. There were 4 other all stars in that game but Rose won it on effort. Not pretty but it was won his back. And this is with the team being terribly flat.


Conley is taking 13 shots and he doesn't have Butler but Tony Allen or Lee next to him in the perimeter.
Imo, He should limit his attempts to not more than 16 ESP if he is not making them, do more directing, as in calling the right plays, ask Pau to get in the right scoring position, encourage Noah and Taj to take 4-5 jump hooks. Set up Aaron Brooks and/or Snell by drawing the defense.
The freaking Jeremy Lin has more assists than Rose(yes, Im talking about the last 5 games)
He should try to drive hard and maybe take those leaners and/or Jump hooks ala Wade.
I agree totally. Do you think Rose runs the team? Maybe when the shooters become healthy, he will not be hoisting them up the way he is. They don't run offensive sets like Atlanta does. They play flat a whole lot. They don't cut, they don't have a perimeter game, the post game is on Butler and Gasol who are getting more shots than they are used to and are adjusting to scouting. If you guys are saying Gasol and Butler are the better players then they have to step up.

You can blame Rose, and his execution has been poor, but the OP is just grabbing one players stat and getting carried away with it. And if you watch the games and tell me the dominant theme is Rose, after so many here talking all these last three years that they won on defense and rebounding, its crap.

The number one problem is spacing - and everybody is suffering because of that.
The number two problem is the lack of systematic offense to maximize the talent.
The third problem is the energy not invested into Thibe's style, which is predicated on energy.

Everybody's play has suffered from these factors and the team isn't going anywhere until that's addressed.

[97 bulls]

Lately can be ten games, 15 games, whatever, if you are following Ariza welcome to 8th grade maybe 9th grade? If you watch the games Rose's long distance shot has much better form and alignment and don't have that flatness to it. Ray Allen has had terrible stretches. These road games of late have gone very wild and he's been missing them just as everybody else on the team has been wild.

I don't agree with his taking threes at this clip and said as much several times. There might be another thread open right now that's similar to this one. But Rose outdueled the best three pointer shooter in the game. It wasn't pretty but it was the only way to beat the best team in the league. There were 4 other all stars in that game but Rose won it on effort. Not pretty but it was won his back. And this is with the team being terribly flat.

I agree totally. Do you think Rose runs the team? Maybe when the shooters become healthy, he will not be hoisting them up the way he is. They don't run offensive sets like Atlanta does. They play flat a whole lot. They don't cut, they don't have a perimeter game, the post game is on Butler and Gasol who are getting more shots than they are used to and are adjusting to scouting. If you guys are saying Gasol and Butler are the better players then they have to step up.

You can blame Rose, and his execution has been poor, but the OP is just grabbing one players stat and getting carried away with it. And if you watch the games and tell me the dominant theme is Rose, after so many here talking all these last three years that they won on defense and rebounding, its crap.

The number one problem is spacing - and everybody is suffering because of that.
The number two problem is the lack of systematic offense to maximize the talent.
The third problem is the energy not invested into Thibe's style, which is predicated on energy.

Everybody's play has suffered from these factors and the team isn't going anywhere until that's addressed.
You forgot about problems 4-10. Their defense.

[MiseryCityTexas]

The two things Derrick needs to do:

1) set his teammates up more. He can't finish like he use to but he is still freakish getting into the paint and drawing multiple defenders. Time to turn those plays into assists on a consistent basis.

2) stop taking a 3pt shot to start the game. It never goes in and sets an unnecessary tone for the rest of the game. Turn that first shot into a mid range j or floater and he'll make that first bucket 50% of the time if not more.

So basically you want him to play more like Tony Parker now.