So, Kobe's 2015 v.s. MJ's 2002, YMF ... where you @

[SamuraiSWISH]

Who was better?

Kobe - 35 games

22.3 ppg
37%
5.6 apg
5.7 rpg
81% FT
29% 3PT

Best Games:

44 pts (15-34) @ Golden State
31 pts (11-24), 12 ast, 11 reb v.s. Toronto
19 pts (7-14), 17 ast (career high), 6 reb v.s. Cleveland

MJ - 60 games
Wizards 37-45

22.9 ppg
42%
5.2 apg
5.7 rpg
79% FT
19% 3PT

Best Games:

45 pts, 10 reb, 7 ast in 39 min v.s. New Jersey (#1 Def)
51 pts (oldest to score 50) 21-38 v.s. Charlotte
41 pts (17-30, game winner), 7 ast, 4 reb @ Phoenix (On prime Marion)

Anyone know the Lakers 2015 record when Kobe was playing? Who was better?

[navy]

Both suck.

[Mr. Jabbar]

but did mj tore his achilles in 2000?

[SamuraiSWISH]

but did mj tore his achilles in 2000?
No, he stayed retired for 3 season. Got fat and out of shape. Atrophy of skills. Probably a lot worse than staying in relative basketball shape, rehabilitating an injury then getting back out there. Nique in '93 played light years better off an achilles tear than Kobe did ... what's your point?

[J Shuttlesworth]

Was Jordan in the top 20 worst defensive players in the league? If not, I'll give him the nod

[SamuraiSWISH]

Was Jordan in the top 20 worst defensive players in the league? If not, I'll give him the nod
Not even close. MJ was better offensively as well in a more depressed offensive era. And also had more impact on winning basketball games as his team's bets player. Which is the most important thing. Both squads had a similar lack of talent.

[Mr. Jabbar]

what's your point?

you sound too sure for someone who is just assuming a lot of factors. kobe had way more mileage on him when it happened, it could have affected him more than jordan being retired

[JT123]

[B]Kobe ranks among the worst players in the league this season in a number of categories:

[SamuraiSWISH]

you sound too sure for someone who is just assuming a lot of factors. kobe had way more mileage on him when it happened, it could have affected him more than jordan being retired
Mileage isn't as important as age, and conditioning. MPG isn't indicative of the level of wear and tear.

[Mr. Jabbar]

[QUOTE=JT123][B]Kobe ranks among the worst players in the league this season in a number of categories:

[J Shuttlesworth]

Kobe ranks among the worst players in the league this season in a number of categories:
• 124th in field goal percentage (third-worst among qualified players)
• 103rd in 3-point percentage (fifth-worst)
• 74th in player efficiency rating
• 361st in win shares

Kobe's 0.1 win shares are the fewest of the 73 players to play at least 1,200 minutes this season.


Based on the above evidence I would have to say that current Kobe doesn't even belong in the same sentence as Wizards MJ
Don't forget that he's the 16th worst defender in the league (DRPM):

http://i.imgur.com/l9RlfSC.png

[Magic 32]

Anyone know the Lakers 2015 record when Kobe was playing? Who was better?

Here is a better question.

Who cares?

[BigBoss]

Kobe ranks among the worst players in the league this season in a number of categories:
• 124th in field goal percentage (third-worst among qualified players)
• 103rd in 3-point percentage (fifth-worst)
• 74th in player efficiency rating
• 361st in win shares

Kobe's 0.1 win shares are the fewest of the 73 players to play at least 1,200 minutes this season.


Based on the above evidence I would have to say that current Kobe doesn't even belong in the same sentence as Wizards MJ

http://i.imgur.com/VgQd4e1.gif

[AirBourne92]

Mileage isn't as important as age, and conditioning. MPG isn't indicative of the level of wear and tear.


Complete opposite actually. Mileage and wear and tear is the prime factor in athletic decline.

Also re-conditioning can happen within a couple of months---muscle memory

[Prometheus]

Obviously Jordan was better.

It only makes sense for Kobe fans to initiate the comparisons. Jordan fans should be comfortable with how much better he was in every way to not even consider it.

[3ball]

Who was better?

Kobe - 35 games

22.3 ppg
37%
5.6 apg
5.7 rpg
81% FT
29% 3PT

Best Games:

44 pts (15-34) @ Golden State
31 pts (11-24), 12 ast, 11 reb v.s. Toronto
19 pts (7-14), 17 ast (career high), 6 reb v.s. Cleveland

MJ - 60 games
Wizards 37-45

22.9 ppg
42%
5.2 apg
5.7 rpg
79% FT
19% 3PT

Best Games:

45 pts, 10 reb, 7 ast in 39 min v.s. New Jersey (#1 Def)
51 pts (oldest to score 50) 21-38 v.s. Charlotte
41 pts (17-30, game winner), 7 ast, 4 reb @ Phoenix (On prime Marion)

Anyone know the Lakers 2015 record when Kobe was playing? Who was better?
if kobe only held up for 35 games, why do we need to look at 60 games for Jordan?

why not compare the 35 games that Kobe was able to play, to the first 35 games of MJ as a Wizard? Don't you want to make it apples to apples?

[SamuraiSWISH]

why not compare the 35 games that Kobe was able to play, to the first 35 games of MJ as a Wizard? Don't you want to make it apples to apples?
If you're willing to do that work, sure.

[Smoke117]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_li6vxzq7st1qbdrm8.gif

[SamuraiSWISH]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_li6vxzq7st1qbdrm8.gif
Then don't bother reading the thread.

[3ball]

If you're willing to do that work, sure.


Through 35 games:

Kobe: 22.3 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 5.6 APG, 37% FG, 81% FT, 29% 3PT
MJ:... 24.1 PPG, 5.9 RPG, 5.1 APG, 41% FG, 81% FT, 15% 3 PT


link to mj's stats thru 35 games:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/2002/#931-965-sum:pgl_basic

[Mr Feeny]

Here is a better question.

Who cares?

We do :D

[Mr Feeny]

Who was better?

Kobe - 35 games

22.3 ppg
37%
5.6 apg
5.7 rpg
81% FT
29% 3PT

Best Games:

44 pts (15-34) @ Golden State
31 pts (11-24), 12 ast, 11 reb v.s. Toronto
19 pts (7-14), 17 ast (career high), 6 reb v.s. Cleveland

MJ - 60 games
Wizards 37-45

22.9 ppg
42%
5.2 apg
5.7 rpg
79% FT
19% 3PT

Best Games:

45 pts, 10 reb, 7 ast in 39 min v.s. New Jersey (#1 Def)
51 pts (oldest to score 50) 21-38 v.s. Charlotte
41 pts (17-30, game winner), 7 ast, 4 reb @ Phoenix (On prime Marion)

Anyone know the Lakers 2015 record when Kobe was playing? Who was better?

You missed out on quite a few great MJ games. If I'm not mistaken, immediately after his 51 point game against the Hornets, he went up against Malone and Stockton and relived his last game with the Bulls against them, by putting up another 45.
He had the game against Garnett and the Wolves where he was blowing past KG at will, it seemed.
On the defensive end, this isn't even a contest. Kobe has not played anything resembling defense in over 3 years. He is currently one of the worst defensive players in the entire league.

[3ball]

If I'm not mistaken, immediately after his 51 point game against the Hornets, he went up against Malone and Stockton


Actually, it was against the #1 defense in the league - the New Jersey Nets.

all his points in the first half were on Richard Jefferson, and all his points in the 2nd half were on Kenyon Martin...

I mean, he really sonned Kenyon in such amazing and easy fashion.... just bullied him on the post like he was a boy and also from the triple threat... off the dribble too.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FERPEtMYpes&t=0m18s





He had the game against Garnett and the Wolves where he was blowing past KG at will, it seemed.


the amazing thing about his first meeting with Garnett as a Wizard, is that Jordan was a SF as a Wizard, so MJ and Garnett were matched together and Garnett guarded him FROM THE TIPOFF AND ALL GAME.

Jordan scored directly on Garnett 8 times in the first half alone, including 5 STRAIGHT POSSESSIONS when he went 1-on-1 against Garnett and scored, with the announcers getting more hysterical with every bucket - this sequence starts exactly at the 4:00 mark.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=embqhggoep4

of course, this was nothing new - Jordan had destroyed Garnett in 1998, which was Garnett's first all-star season - here's Jordan dropping 41 on Garnett's Twolves (he was a SG back then, so the two were not matched up)... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfgJlBOQSgo





You missed out on quite a few great MJ games.


Indeed, he had a 51 point game, and four 40-point games, including 41 points scored ALL ON SHAWN MARION: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd9ayPlqCMg

he also hit a sick walk-off game-winner in a different game on Shawn Marion here... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjo06p5zchg

another game winner over Latrell Sprewell here.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgG9X0aZb_Q&t=5m24s

and the final game-winner he ever hit versus cleveland, sending lebron home crying ONE FINAL TIME... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwW9XbwlV1o&t=5m53s

[Mr Feeny]

Actually, it was against the #1 defense in the league - the New Jersey Nets.

all his points in the first half were on Richard Jefferson, and all his points in the 2nd half were on Kenyon Martin...

I mean, he really sonned Kenyon in such amazing and easy fashion.... just bullied him on the post like he was a boy and also from the triple threat... off the dribble too.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FERPEtMYpes&t=0m18s



the amazing thing about his first meeting with Garnett as a Wizard, is that Jordan was a SF as a Wizard, so MJ and Garnett were matched together and Garnett guarded him FROM THE TIPOFF AND ALL GAME.

Jordan scored directly on Garnett 8 times in the first half alone, including 5 STRAIGHT POSSESSIONS when he went 1-on-1 against Garnett and scored, with the announcers getting more hysterical with every bucket - this sequence starts exactly at the 4:00 mark.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=embqhggoep4

of course, this was nothing new - Jordan had destroyed Garnett in 1998, which was Garnett's first all-star season - here's Jordan dropping 41 on Garnett's Twolves (he was a SG back then, so the two were not matched up)... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfgJlBOQSgo



Indeed, he had a 51 point game, and four 40-point games, including 41 points scored ALL ON SHAWN MARION: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd9ayPlqCMg

he also hit a sick walk-off game-winner in a different game on Shawn Marion here... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjo06p5zchg

another game winner over Latrell Sprewell here.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgG9X0aZb_Q&t=5m24s

and the final game-winner he ever hit versus cleveland, sending lebron home crying ONE FINAL TIME... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwW9XbwlV1o&t=5m53s

"He did it againnnnnn. He did it againnnnnn" :bowdown:

[SexSymbol]

No, he stayed retired for 3 season. Got fat and out of shape. Atrophy of skills. Probably a lot worse than staying in relative basketball shape, rehabilitating an injury then getting back out there. Nique in '93 played light years better off an achilles tear than Kobe did ... what's your point?
This thread along with this post is filled with stupid agenda presented in even a more stupid way.
Nique didn't have a full tear, there's a huge difference.
You really think that a basketball legend, universally accepted as the best ever doesn't practice at all immediately after retirement? There's a reason most of those guys still hit everything when they're 60, they do it often. You act as if MJ just sat on his ass, never picking up a ball in those three years..
There's literally nothing worse that a full achilles tear for a basketball player, especially on the main leg.
The truth to the comparison is that MJ was obviously still a good player as is Kobe, but Kobe's had more season under his belt and the worst injury in sports aside from the paralyzing/lethal stuff.
MJ's arguably the best player ever, but the way you're continually acting, at least for the time that I'd been here, you act as if he isn't and you try to prop him up everywhere every time no matter how wrong or ignorant you get in doing so.
TL;DR go defend MJ's dick size somewhere else, your act is pathetic

[SexSymbol]

Through 35 games:

Kobe: 22.3 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 5.6 APG, 37% FG, 81% FT, 29% 3PT
MJ:... 24.1 PPG, 5.9 RPG, 5.1 APG, 41% FG, 81% FT, 15% 3 PT


link to mj's stats thru 35 games:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/2002/#931-965-sum:pgl_basic
So all this fuss about this, and in the same sample size they were practically equal while being equally terrible defenders.
Maybe we should do Barkley's last years versus Hakeem's last years. Boy, would that be an interesting discussion

[Mr Feeny]

So all this fuss about this, and in the same sample size they were practically equal while being equally terrible defenders.
Maybe we should do Barkley's last years versus Hakeem's last years. Boy, would that be an interesting discussion

Err. Wrong again. Jordan was an above average defender even at 40.
Kobe is the 16th worst defender in the entire league.
And there's nothing similar about someone shooting 41%fg and another shooting 37%fg:banana:

I bet 36 year old lebron shoots better than 37%fg too:D

[Eric Cartman]

Didn't already know that Jordan is better than Kobe.

Thanks.

[SexSymbol]

Err. Wrong again. Jordan was an above average defender even at 40.
Kobe is the 16th worst defender in the entire league.
And there's nothing similar about someone shooting 41%fg and another shooting 37%fg:banana:

I bet 36 year old lebron shoots better than 37%fg too:D
Absolute bullshit.

There's a lot of similarities with their fg%, It was a 9 percent fall off for Jordan and 8 percent fall off for Kobe. Besides, Kobe has a 47,7TS%, Jordan had 46.8TS%. Their efficiency is pretty much equal

Well, given that LeBron is not a shooter and doesn't base his game after that and as he gets older he'll get into the post and eventually live there, obviously he'll shoot better than 37 percent. He's a hell of a player too, so why wouldn't he? I just don't see how this is relevant to the thread.
You wanna talk hypotheticals, I bet if LeBron would get an achilles tear in his 17th season he'd kiss the ball goodbye

[Yao Ming's Foot]

You forgot to list TS% :oldlol:

[Mr Feeny]

Absolute bullshit.

There's a lot of similarities with their fg%, It was a 9 percent fall off for Jordan and 8 percent fall off for Kobe. Besides, Kobe has a 47,7TS%, Jordan had 46.8TS%. Their efficiency is pretty much equal

Well, given that LeBron is not a shooter and doesn't base his game after that and as he gets older he'll get into the post and eventually live there, obviously he'll shoot better than 37 percent. He's a hell of a player too, so why wouldn't he? I just don't see how this is relevant to the thread.
You wanna talk hypotheticals, I bet if LeBron would get an achilles tear in his 17th season he'd kiss the ball goodbye

You sound so wound up:oldlol:
Who cares how far the fall is?
FACT is one player had 22.9 ppg on 41%fg
and the other had 22.2 ppg on 37%fg.
That's it.

Defensively, Kobe is one of worst 16 basketball players in the league in ANY POSITION, bench OR starter.
Just pathetic:lol

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Among one of the most delusional traits of a Jordan mythologist is the delusion that a 40 year Jordan was anything other than a below average defender. Are you guys serious?:roll:

[Practice?]

http://i.imgur.com/VgQd4e1.gif

That doesn't really work in a thread comparing him to Jordan.

http://4.kicksonfire.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/tumblr_mocxnm9yW91r2b4iuo1_500.gif

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Both were bad seasons...but give me Jordan > Kobe every day of the week.

[HOoopCityJones]

Insecure ass Jordan stan shit. You're better than this SWISH. :facepalm

[Magic 32]

Insecure ass Jordan stan shit. You're better than this SWISH. :facepalm

It's the Jordan fan disease.

Never lost a fight, a matchup or a moral victory, so they must have every comparison turn out in Jordan's favour....forever.



Coming back to the Wizards was still one of the dumbest moves in sports history.

Now his fans are trying to turned it into another moral victory for MJ.

Considering the way Kobe injured himself (brilliantly working himself into the ground trying to get his team into the playoffs), and the comeback from another major injury after that, the comparison is facile and cheap.

[Mr Feeny]

Among one of the most delusional traits of a Jordan mythologist is the delusion that a 40 year Jordan was anything other than a below average defender. Are you guys serious?:roll:He certainly wasn't one of the worst 16 players on the planet, defensively now was he?:roll:

Can you spell P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C?:lol
I think my grandmother who is all of 95 at this point could dribble past Kobe at this point. I mean, yeah, she'd probably go into cardiac arrest after completing the dribble but whatever:D

[Mr Feeny]

That doesn't really work in a thread comparing him to Jordan.

http://4.kicksonfire.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/tumblr_mocxnm9yW91r2b4iuo1_500.gif

oooooh big boss, Magic and Yao stan need aloe Vera for that burn:lol

[SamuraiSWISH]

Insecure ass Jordan stan shit. You're better than this SWISH. :facepalm
It's directed exclusively at the ever excuse making, propaganda pushing Kobe creeper. Yao Ming's Foot.

Kind of stated that in the thread's title. It's not meant to take away from Bryant by any means. Which is why you're so butt hurt, obviously. YMF used to go on and on about MJ's terrible 2002, and 2003 seasons.

We get Kobe at a similar aged capacity, and he was worse in an easier offensive basketball environment. His entire current argument hinges on a stat, TS, which is built to pad the efficiency (wrongly so at that) for perimeter players that shoot too many 3's, or get to the foul line to convert at a high rate. Which when doing so isn't directly attributed to the offensive player.

[Jacks3]

Kobe only played 33 games. Don't worry OP. Wizards Jordan status as the most inefficient volume scorer of all time is secure.

[Young X]

It's the Jordan fan disease.

Never lost a fight, a matchup or a moral victory, so they must have every comparison turn out in Jordan's favour....forever.



Coming back to the Wizards was still one of the dumbest moves in sports history.

Now his fans are trying to turned it into another moral victory for MJ.

Considering the way Kobe injured himself (brilliantly working himself into the ground trying to get his team into the playoffs), and the comeback from another major injury after that, the comparison is facile and cheap.Kobe stans started it by sh!tting on MJ's Wizards seasons. It was cool for them to do that but it's "cheap" when MJ fans bring up Kobe playing WORSE in a similar situation? :kobe:

Plus MJ was in worse physical condition than Kobe - he was legitimately playing injured, was 3 years older and completely out of shape. Basically a fat, old, crippled man. And he STILL played better than Kobe on both ends.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Oooof Jordan mythologists using the easier offensive environment argument :oldlol:

How desperate are you guys to hang your hat on Wizards Jordan that you would throw the rest of his entire career under the bus?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Kobe only played 33 games. Don't worry OP. Wizards Jordan status as the most inefficient volume scorer of all time is secure.


But TS% doesn't matter ... 3 point shots and free throws don't count

:oldlol:

[Mr Feeny]

It's directed exclusively at the ever excuse making, propaganda pushing Kobe creeper. Yao Ming's Foot.

Kind of stated that in the thread's title. It's not meant to take away from Bryant by any means. Which is why you're so butt hurt, obviously. YMF used to go on and on about MJ's terrible 2002, and 2003 seasons.

We get Kobe at a similar aged capacity, and he was worse in an easier offensive basketball environment. His entire current argument hinges on a stat, TS, which is built to pad the efficiency (wrongly so at that) for perimeter players that shoot too many 3's, or get to the foul line to convert at a high rate. Which when doing so isn't directly attributed to the offensive player.

Again, I think I've already told you once. You know that Yao ming foot doesn't understand the first thing about basketball. I know it. 99% of this forum knows it. Why bother concerning yourself with that? What do you have to prove?

A 36 year old is on 22.3 ppg on 37%fg while being one a 400+ player in this league on defense.
A 39 year old averaged 22.9 ppg on 41%fg while being an above average defender in an era prior to the reinterpreting of the handchecking.

Cartman said it. We all know this is not a contest. Heck Yao deep down most likely knows it's isn't himself and is just messing around. Don't give a clown any attention. Clowns love it, crave it, and feed on it.