Okay, we get it, fouls were harder back in the day...

[Prometheus]

Does anyone else think commentators should shut up about this? I don't think I've seen a call under review for flagrant in the last decade without them going on about "well, you know, back in the day this would just be two shots and play on... but in TODAY'S league, you know... this is a flagrant foul". We get it. I just wish they would drop it.

[LiLharvard]

I think its amusing when i hear barkley say "that better not be a foul because back in my day.... " meanwhile a player is lying on the floor with blood on his face.

[miggyme1]

Does anyone else think commentators should shut up about this? I don't think I've seen a call under review for flagrant in the last decade without them going on about "well, you know, back in the day this would just be two shots and play on... but in TODAY'S league, you know... this is a flagrant foul". We get it. I just wish they would drop it.


Y shutup up about it? it is TRUE. If u hate it just turn your tv on mute. problem solved

[Prometheus]

Y shutup up about it? it is TRUE. If u hate it just turn your tv on mute. problem solved

:facepalm

Because... I still enjoy having the commentary for every other reason... and even if it's true... it's been repeated so much that there's no point in saying it any more. Shit changed, the end. Get the **** over it.

[miggyme1]

:facepalm

Because... I still enjoy having the commentary for every other reason... and even if it's true... it's been repeated so much that there's no point in saying it any more. Shit changed, the end. Get the **** over it.


ITS LIKE TELLING A MOTHER WHO LOST THEIR CHILD TO A DRUNK DRIVER OR SOMETHING TO GET OVER IT. IF IT DOESNT CONCERN YOU WHY B#TCH AND MOAN ABOUT IT?

ITS REALLY NOT THAT SERIOUS.

[Prometheus]

ITS LIKE TELLING A MOTHER WHO LOST THEIR CHILD TO A DRUNK DRIVER OR SOMETHING TO GET OVER IT. IF IT DOESNT CONCERN YOU WHY B#TCH AND MOAN ABOUT IT?

ITS REALLY NOT THAT SERIOUS.

:biggums:

Commentators clinging to nostalgia and exaggerating 80s toughness is like a tragedy?

And you're right, it's not that serious. You seem more mad than me.

[AirBourne92]

too bad they couldn't even rotate properly and still ended up giving up wide open layups and dunks

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Yup. And they act like it was better back then. I'm sorry but I don't watch basketball to see people getting tackled.

[TylerOO]

Im so sick of Reggie Miller saying that. STFU Reggie my grandmother would rock you

[miggyme1]

:biggums:

Commentators clinging to nostalgia and exaggerating 80s toughness is like a tragedy?

And you're right, it's not that serious. You seem more mad than me.


I seem mad but YOU made a whole thread concerning it.


I see u putting that good ole ISH education to good use! u take care now!

[JebronLames]

Saying fouls were harder back in the day makes them physically tough.

[fpliii]

Yup. And they act like it was better back then. I'm sorry but I don't watch basketball to see people getting tackled.

Coach Wooden felt the same way. In his book "Practical Modern Basketball" (page 402 in my edition), he noted:


The Three-Point Goal

There has been considerable discussion and experimentation in the last several years in regard to this new rule, which was adopted for the 1986-87 season. Although there seems to be a favorable reaction to the rule by most coaches, many feel the 19-feet, 9-inch distance is too close.

I personally concur with this reaction as I feel the distance should be a minimum of 21 feet. However, the 1986-87 season provided a good test.

If the rule was adopted to discourage the use of zone defenses, then I think it is wrong. However, if it was to diminish some of the physical play in the deep-post area and cut down on fouls, then it certainly was worth adopting. Not only is the latter thought a good possibility, but the rule may help the smaller, quicker player by forcing the defense to extend out a little farther and thus open up more driving room for the more maneuverable player.

Since I think that basketball was meant to be a game of finesse and maneuverability rather than physical strength and brute force, I am hopeful that this rule may lead us back toward that style of play.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Coach Wooden felt the same way. In his book "Practical Modern Basketball" (page 402 in my edition), he noted:

Yup. that's exactly how i feel.

[3ball]

Coach Wooden felt the same way. In his book "Practical Modern Basketball" (page 402 in my edition), he noted:
ur an idiot dude - every time i come on here, i see you posting some excerpt from some book - you never have an opinion of your own. you get them all from books.

lame stat bot.. figure the game out on your own or go actually play the game... pathetic...

[3ball]

:facepalm

Because... I still enjoy having the commentary for every other reason... and even if it's true... it's been repeated so much that there's no point in saying it any more. Shit changed, the end. Get the **** over it.
of course there is... today's game is soft as charmin... why would we stop saying this?... to save your feeling... quit being a baby... ur even softer than today's defense

[IGOTGAME]

ur an idiot dude - every time i come on here, i see you posting some excerpt from some book - you never have an opinion of your own. you get them all from books.

lame stat bot.. figure the game out on your own or go actually play the game... pathetic...

yea. screw him for reading books and sharing quotes. how could that be of any interest...:rolleyes:

[J Shuttlesworth]

Actually, announcers don't need to shut up about it. 3ball does

[J Shuttlesworth]

yea. screw him for reading books and sharing quotes. how could that be of any interest...:rolleyes:
word. better than spamming gifs and talking about "navigation efficiency" and trying to do anything one can to bring up jordan

[3ball]

"well, you know, back in the day this would just be two shots and play on... but in TODAY'S league, you know... this is a flagrant foul".


It's not just the physicality, previous eras allowed a certain degree of paint-camping, which is outlawed in today's game - this is from the old NBA rulebook, Rule 2b under the Illegal Defense Guidelines (link below):


b. When a defensive player is guarding an offensive player who is adjacent (posted-up) to the 3-second lane, the defensive player may be within the "inside lane" area with no time limitations. An offensive player shall be ruled as "postedup" when he is within 3' of the free throw lane line. A hash mark on the baseline denotes the 3' area.

http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html


But the NBA changed the rules in 2005 and banned all paint-camping by making a clear-cut, simple rule that is easy to abide by and enforce - defenders have to stay within "armslength" of their man to remain in the paint.


http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html

If an offensive players stands on one of the blocks, or inside the paint but near the FT line for example, his defender is not allowed to stand under the rim in either of these instances, since that is far out of armslength reach (a man's arm is 3 feet, and the paint is 16' x 19").. But in previous eras, the defender could legally camp "with no time restriction" anywhere inside the paint in both of these instances.
.

[oarabbus]

If an offensive players stands on one of the blocks, or inside the paint but near the FT line for example, his defender is not allowed to stand under the rim in either of these instances, since that is far out of armslength reach (a man's arm is 3 feet, and the paint is 16' x 19").. But in previous eras, the defender could legally camp "with no time restriction" anywhere inside the paint in both of these instances.




They actually call that "NCAA" these days

[sportjames23]

There is no need to be upset, OP.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

ur an idiot dude - every time i come on here, i see you posting some excerpt from some book - you never have an opinion of your own. you get them all from books.

lame stat bot.. figure the game out on your own or go actually play the game... pathetic...
you've been posting stu jackson quotes non-stop for the past week

[RoundMoundOfReb]

It's not just the physicality, previous eras allowed a certain degree of paint-camping, which is outlawed in today's game - this is from the old NBA rulebook, Rule 2b under the Illegal Defense Guidelines (link below):


b. When a defensive player is guarding an offensive player who is adjacent (posted-up) to the 3-second lane, the defensive player may be within the "inside lane" area with no time limitations. An offensive player shall be ruled as "postedup" when he is within 3' of the free throw lane line. A hash mark on the baseline denotes the 3' area.

http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html


But the NBA changed the rules in 2005 and banned all paint-camping by making a clear-cut, simple rule that is easy to abide by and enforce - defenders have to stay within "armslength" of their man to remain in the paint.


http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html

If an offensive players stands on one of the blocks, or inside the paint but near the FT line for example, his defender is not allowed to stand under the rim in either of these instances, since that is far out of armslength reach (a man's arm is 3 feet, and the paint is 16' x 19").. But in previous eras, the defender could legally camp "with no time restriction" anywhere inside the paint in both of these instances.
.

Hey! Stop posting excerpts from books. Get an opinion of your own!

[3ball]

Hey! Stop posting excerpts from books. Get an opinion of your own!


we're talking about the RULES dumbass - they aren't opinions.

how dumb are you?

and you quoted an old post - i posted an updated one long after that one.. i'll post the revised one again... :rolleyes:

[3ball]

They actually call that "NCAA" these days


no, it's from the old NBA rulebook, pre-2005 rules - specifically, Rule 2b under the Illegal Defense Guidelines (link below):


b. When a defensive player is guarding an offensive player who is adjacent (posted-up) to the 3-second lane, the defensive player may be within the "inside lane" area with no time limitations. An offensive player shall be ruled as "postedup" when he is within 3' of the free throw lane line. A hash mark on the baseline denotes the 3' area.

http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html


Defenders in previous eras could stay in the paint if their man was anywhere inside the paint - so if their man was inside the paint but near the FT line, defenders could be 15 feet away near the bottom of the paint, right under the basket.

Whereas today's rules require a defender to stay within armslength (http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html) of their man at all times, which is about 3 feet - so when an offensive player is inside the paint but near the FT line, the defender must be right beside him, within armslength.

Also, defenders in previous eras could remain in the paint if their man was within 3 feet of either side of the paint - so a defender could stand under the rim while their man is on the block.. However, that's 8 feet away and out of armslength, so in today's game, that's illegal.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

we're talking about the RULES dumbass - they aren't opinions.

how dumb are you?

and you quoted an old post - i posted an updated one long after that one.. i'll post the revised one again... :rolleyes:

How many times does the quote your posting need to be refuted before you understand that there was NO paint camping allowed unless the offensive player was within 3 ft of the ft lane line. Where as today you are allowed

1) Infinite time within armslength of offensive player

2) 3 seconds regardless of where offensive player is. and then u can simply step out and step back in.

[3ball]

NO paint camping allowed unless the offensive player was within 3 ft of the ft lane line.


OR INSIDE THE PAINT ALREADY.... a defender can camp ANYWHERE IN THE 16 FOOT BY 19 FOOT PAINT if his man is either inside the paint already, OR within 3 feet of either side of the paint.

but today's defender can't camp ANYWHERE IN THE PAINT.. they have to stand right beside their man at all times inside the paint (they have to stay within armslength, or about 3 feet)... for example, if the offensive player is inside the paint near the FT line, the defender can't stand 15 feet away under the rim, because that's out of armslength - but in previous eras, this was legal.





Where as today you are allowed

1) Infinite time within armslength of offensive player


yes you just said it - you have to be within armslength (3 feet) of an offensive player!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!... that's not a good thing.

if an offensive player is inside the paint near the FT line, the defender cannot stand 15 feet away under the basket, because that's far out of armslength reach...

But in previous eras, defenders could stay in the paint if their man was anywhere inside the paint - so if their man was inside the paint but near the FT line, defenders could be 15 feet away near the bottom of the paint, right under the basket.

and an offensive player standing on the block is 8 feet away from from a defender standing under the rim - this is illegal today because it's out of armslength reach, but completely legal in previous eras because the offensive player in the block is within 3 feet of the FT lane!





2) 3 seconds regardless of where offensive player is. and then u can simply step out and step back in.


if you read the rules, this is the same as previous eras for most parts of the floor... for example, when an offensive player is above the FT line or above the 3-point line at the top of the key, a defensive player can sag back into the paint for 2.9 seconds, JUST LIKE TODAY.

[3ball]

honestly, the real problem is that it's impossible to explain the rules concisely enough for you uneducated idiots to understand... realtalk

you guys are dumb as ****

[RoundMoundOfReb]

if you read the rules, this is the same as previous eras for most parts of the floor... for example, when an offensive player is above the FT line or above the 3-point line at the top of the key, a defensive player can sag back into the paint for 2.9 seconds, JUST LIKE TODAY.

But it CAN NOT be done in conjunction with zone defense.

Something like this:

http://s29.postimg.org/y32v1xeqv/overload.jpg

What Deandre Jordan is doing would not be allowed.

[3ball]

But it CAN NOT be done in conjunction with zone defense.

Something like this:

http://s29.postimg.org/y32v1xeqv/overload.jpg

What Deandre Jordan is doing would not be allowed.
great example, nice find... and you're right on Deandre Jordan - previous eras couldn't do that.

HOWEVER, this is more than offset by the fact that Deandre can't just stand under the rim like he would be able to in previous eras - Deandre's man is #20, and if Deandre stood under the rim, he would be out of armslength reach and draw a tech in today's game...

but in previous eras, Deandre Jordan could camp anywhere in the paint with no time restriction as long as #20 is within 3 feet of the side of the FT lane, OR anywhere inside the paint.

now if Deandre's man was inside the paint, obviously, it would necessitate Deandre being in the paint too - but Deandre would have to stand right next to his man due to the armslength rule... so if #20 was inside the paint but near the FT line, Deandre would have to be up near the FT line too - he wouldn't be able to stand 15 feet away under the rim like previous eras.
.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

great example, nice find... and you're right on Deandre Jordan - previous eras couldn't do that.

HOWEVER, this is more than offset by the fact that Deandre can't just stand under the rim like he would be able to in previous eras - Deandre's man is #20, and if Deandre stood under the rim, he would be out of armslength reach and draw a tech in today's game...

but in previous eras, Deandre Jordan could camp anywhere in the paint with no time restriction as long as #20 is within 3 feet of the side of the FT lane, OR anywhere inside the paint.

now if Deandre's man was inside the paint, obviously, it would necessitate Deandre being in the paint too - but Deandre would have to stand right next to his man due to the armslength rule... so if #20 was inside the paint but near the FT line, Deandre would have to be up near the FT line too - he wouldn't be able to stand 15 feet away under the rim like previous eras.
.

In this particular picture Deandre could be within armslength of Mozgov and still be pretty much under the rim...problem is that that isn't the optimum place to be...LeBron James with a head of steam is simply too unstoppable.

Now you're right in that in certain situations....say Mozgov is a step or two outside the paint - Deandre could only be on the left (facing the basket) end of the pain and would have trouble rotating over to challenge LeBron at the rim..but this is more than offset by the fact that if Mozgov were 3.0001 ft outside the ft lane line deandre COULD NOT be in the paint and thus would have no shot in hell of preventing a layup.

[Quickening]

Who cares about harder fouls... they had chitter defences as proven by the PPG allowed per possession and the points per game. Straight up trash. I could go to my local park if I wanted to watch low IQ bad, high contact defence

[Prometheus]

I can't believe my simple little complaint about how the game casters sound like a broken record sometimes got derailed and turned into another 3ball paint-camping thread.

My lack of interest in one is the same as my lack of interest in the other. I know fouls were harder back in the day. I've heard it a million times, and I no longer care. I know defenders were allowed to camp in the paint. I watched that style of defense when I was a young child, and it is different now. There's no reason to keep talking about something when everyone already knows it.

[Prometheus]

of course there is... today's game is soft as charmin... why would we stop saying this?... to save your feeling... quit being a baby... ur even softer than today's defense

To save my feeling? LOL no I simply find it irritating and repetitive... just like you. Calling me soft on an internet forum... man I really get under your skin, don't I?

[3ball]

I know defenders were allowed to camp in the paint.


The bolded above is the main point - All coaches back then foolishly positioned players close to the rim, which activated Rule 2b (http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html) in the Illegal Defense Guidelines - the rule allowed defenders to paint-camp if their man was in the paint already, or within 3 feet of either side of the paint.

The paint-camping issue should have been argued this way from the outset to avoid confusion or debate - I'll take blame here.

While Rule 2b (http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html) allowed defenders to paint-camp when their man was within 3 feet of the paint, Rule 2a (http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html) covered instances when the defender's man was outside of the 3 feet distance - in these instances, Rule 2a didn't allow defenders to paint-camp, but they could still stay in the lane for 2.9 seconds, just like today's game.

Rule 2a (http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html) also nullifies a common misperception by new fans that think weakside defenders had to hug their man out at the 3-point line:


"a. Weakside defenders may be within the "outside lane" with no time limit, and within the "Inside lane" for 2.9 seconds."


But again, the main issue is Rule 2b (http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html), the paint-camping provision.. All coaches ran offenses that activated Rule 2b, thus enabling LEGAL paint-camping... The legal paint-camping, coupled with higher physicality, hand-checking and no spacing, made it just as hard to score in previous eras as today's era.

[CavaliersFTW]

young fans jimmies get so rustled when their coddled generation gets called out for being soft :lol

[lilteapot]

ur an idiot dude - every time i come on here, i see you posting some excerpt from some book - you never have an opinion of your own. you get them all from books.

lame stat bot.. figure the game out on your own or go actually play the game... pathetic...

THE MELTDOWN CONTINUES

[3ball]

http://s29.postimg.org/y32v1xeqv/overload.jpg



..Deandre Jordan under the rim - but that's not the optimum place for him to be...LeBron James with a head of steam is simply too unstoppable... (hence the strong-side flood where Deandre is outside the paint on the strongside)


Flooding Deandre to the strongside leaves the weakside a man down and vulnerable - teams easily take advantage of that... Whereas letting Deandre stand under the rim doesn't leave the weakside vulnerable (Griffin gets to stay on Love in the near-corner), while Deandre's presence under the rim provides the best opportunity to defend against penetrators from the strongside... He's closer to Mosgov this way too.

It's been long proven that a big man's presence under the rim is the best possible position for him defensively.





In this particular picture Deandre could be within armslength of Mozgov and still be pretty much under the rim.


Deandre's arm is only 3 feet long - if he was standing under the rim in the middle of the paint, he would be well out of armslength reach of Mosgov standing 8 feet away on the edge of the paint (the paint is 16 ft wide).





but this is more than offset by the fact that if Mozgov were 3.0001 feet outside either side of the FT lane line deandre COULD NOT be in the paint and thus would have no shot in hell of preventing a layup.


Rule 2a (http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html) - when the offensive player is 3.00001 feet outside either side of the FT lane:


"a. Weakside defenders may be within the "outside lane" with no time limit, and within the "Inside lane" for 2.9 seconds."


So when a weakside offensive player is behind the corner 3-point line, his defender doesn't have be in the corner with him - the defender can sag back... even into the paint, where he can remain for 2.9 seconds, just like today.

And of course, the previously mentioned Rule 2b (http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html), which allowed defenders to paint-camp when their man was inside 3.0001 feet of either side of the FT lane - this rule was activated by the foolish positioning of players close to the rim by previous era coaches.. All coaches back then ran offenses that actually enabled LEGAL paint-camping... The legal paint-camping, coupled with higher physicality, hand-checking and no spacing, made it just as hard to score in previous eras as today's era.

[smoovegittar]

Weak era.

[KobesFinger]

young fans jimmies get so rustled when their coddled generation gets called out for being soft :lol

You're like 27

[CavaliersFTW]

You're like 27
But i'm a very ooooold 27 :lol