AD 2015 or Rose 2011?

[dubnation]

People always mention how Rose was the youngest MVP of all-time.

But who would you take between him & AD? In a vacuum, without considering injury history or future potential.

Y'all always talk about Rose's leadership & intangibles back in 2011 and criticize AD for the Pelican's current spot in the playoff picture.. IMO, it's not fair... this is an easy choice and f*** PER.

[Smook A.]

Lol, stupid question. I'm obviously going to take Anthony Davis 10 times out of 10. Rose was great in 2011, but Davis is the full package.

[Mr. Jabbar]

give me the guy with only 1 gigantic, grotesque brow

[dubnation]

Lol, stupid question. I'm obviously going to take Anthony Davis 10 times out of 10. Rose was great in 2011, but Davis is the full package.

I'm with you... but it feels like a lot of people won't believe it/elevate him to that stature until he makes the playoffs/wins a series.

[Paul George 24]

DAVIS IS MVP :roll:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Davis is much better.

[Taller than CP3]

Rose was great in 2011, but Davis is the full package.

hnggggggggg

[CJ Mustard]

If Davis was in the Eastern Conference, he's be winning 50+ games and would have the MVP wrapped up with a bow on top by now.

But yeah, current Davis > Prime Rose.

[Ariza4three]

Davis>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[nathanjizzle]

ill take rose. 30-10 record in clutch games is something davis cant do. 2011 rose was about 24-7 against western teams, thats a 2nd seed right now.

[noob cake]

Rose - worst MVP in last decade.

Davis - 21 year old center who craps on "MVP" Rose

[nathanjizzle]

Rose - worst MVP in last decade.

Davis - 21 year old center who craps on "MVP" Rose

in games that come down to a defecit less than 5 points with 5 minutes left.

mvp rose 30 -10
2015 davis 8-10

[fiddy]

Rose - worst MVP in last decade.

Davis - 21 year old center who craps on "MVP" Rose
:facepalm

[Pointguard]

Funny you guys can't compare pgs to pgs are now trying it with centers. AD is great compare him to young Duncan, Blake Griffin had the best rookie year of modern great PF's, he deserves that. Dirk was a killer at 21. This one great shot is making people lose their minds. The Bulls in 2011 didn't lose to an Elite team after Dec.13th. And Rose was killing those teams in the 4th quarter consistently - like 15 times!!! Not one thread of people losing their minds after months of him doing this is around comparing him to previous MVP's. You guys are obsessed with this Rose nonsense.

[ralph_i_el]

in games that come down to a defecit less than 5 points with 5 minutes left.

mvp rose 30 -10
2015 davis 8-10

so what you're saying is that the Bulls were a fluke team that year, because winning close games usually regresses to the mean?

Also, where are you finding this stat?

[DMAVS41]

Funny you guys can't compare pgs to pgs are now trying it with centers. AD is great compare him to young Duncan, Blake Griffin had the best rookie year of modern great PF's, he deserves that. Dirk was a killer at 21. This one great shot is making people lose their minds. The Bulls in 2011 didn't lose to an Elite team after Dec.13th. And Rose was killing those teams in the 4th quarter consistently - like 15 times!!! Not one thread of people losing their minds after months of him doing this is around comparing him to previous MVP's. You guys are obsessed with this Rose nonsense.

I totally agree this comparison makes no sense.

Current Davis is literally about twice as good as Rose was in 11. It's not even remotely comparable.

[DMAVS41]

so what you're saying is that the Bulls were a fluke team that year, because winning close games usually regresses to the mean?

Also, where are you finding this stat?

Yep.

It would be one thing if said player or team had done it for a decade or something, but one year where a player/team happen to win like 7 extra games because they got hot in crunch time and had a few lucky breaks means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Great point about the regression. You actually saw it that year in the ECF...where the Bulls went 0-4 in close games and Rose was terrible.

[LoneyROY7]

lol.

[greatest-ever]

This is pretty clearly AD, he is just more impactful.

Rose was not a top 5 player when he won mvp or at very best was number 5.

In today's game Curry Lebron AD and Harden would be clearly better than 2011 Rose. Cp3 and Westbrook would be debatable. Kd is better when he plays but has missed a ton of games.

[Killbot]

This is definitely the Anno Domini 2015

[ballinhun8]

Half the people here probably didn't watch Rose in 2011.


Funny how revisionist history is played out.

[ArbitraryWater]

Half the people here probably didn't watch Rose in 2011.


Funny how revisionist history is played out.

This isn't close... Sorry, Rose won't ever be close to how good Davis is.

[fpliii]

Half the people here probably didn't watch Rose in 2011.


Funny how revisionist history is played out.
I'm not going to comment on this particular comparison (still not sure how I feel about Davis, though I love his potential), but I don't view it as revisionist history. I was still on the ESPN boards at the time so I can't comment on ISH, but a ton of people back then felt the same way. So it wouldn't surprise me if the same held true here.

[Ruler]

ill take rose. 30-10 record in clutch games is something davis cant do. 2011 rose was about 24-7 against western teams, thats a 2nd seed right now.
Are you serious?! :roll:
Did you not just see Davis hit that GW 3 over Durant? Get out of here :oldlol:

[Badazzwriter]

too early to tell id say, but so far AD has been better statistically

[greatest-ever]

Half the people here probably didn't watch Rose in 2011.


Funny how revisionist history is played out.
I did watch Rose back then, he was fantastic during the regular season but pretty much flamed out in the ECF.

I don't think there's any revisionist going on, no sensible fan back then ranked him as a top 4 player back then. He was in the 5-8 range pretty clearly and this season he would rank the same.

[Pointguard]

I totally agree this comparison makes no sense.

Current Davis is literally about twice as good as Rose was in 11. It's not even remotely comparable.
the first sentence was right, and the second sentence proves that your one second of illumination died an early death. You tried to compare PGs on the same team and came out saying CJ Watson was better defensively than Rose. And came to this same conclusion three times! And now you are going to compare PF/Center to a Point guard on a different team.

The much better comparison is Dirk's MVP year since they are both practical seven footers. That's the much better comparison. And is one that isn't above your guys heads.

[Smoke117]

lol...Davis, obviously.

[Pointguard]

This is pretty clearly AD, he is just more impactful.

Explain clearly??? Rose carried his team moreso than AD has, dominated elite teams much better than AD has, had more responsibility than AD had. Won more than AD has, controlled the game more than AD had.



Rose was not a top 5 player when he won mvp or at very best was number 5.
Name me a better player against elite teams. Name me a better player in the 4th quarter? Name me a better player in holding down elite players opposite him? Name me a player that went thru more starting lineups and won at high level. Name me a superstar player that had more offensive responsibility. Name me a player that won more. Rose didn't have another allstar, didn't have a player that ranked top ten in hardly any major category. What you are calling better players just had better stats - Lebron was the best player but the others weren't laying down bigger impact.


In today's game Curry Lebron AD and Harden would be clearly better than 2011 Rose. Cp3 and Westbrook would be debatable. Kd is better when he plays but has missed a ton of games. Same applies here. All of them here minus Harden have a much better team than Rose did. FAAAR BETTER TEAM if Rose had Noah and Boozer the 67 games they missed. And Atlanta, without a player that was an Allstar last year, has the best record!!! I want to here your excuse for these guys not having more impact.

[greatest-ever]

Explain clearly??? Rose carried his team moreso than AD has, dominated elite teams much better than AD has, had more responsibility than AD had. Won more than AD has, controlled the game more than AD had.


Name me a better player against elite teams. Name me a better player in the 4th quarter? Name me a better player in holding down elite players opposite him? Name me a player that went thru more starting lineups and won at high level. Name me a superstar player that had more offensive responsibility. Name me a player that won more. Rose didn't have another allstar, didn't have a player that ranked top ten in hardly any major category. What you are calling better players just had better stats - Lebron was the best player but the others weren't laying down bigger impact.
Same applies here. All of them here minus Harden have a much better team than Rose did. FAAAR BETTER TEAM if Rose had Noah and Boozer the 67 games they missed. And Atlanta, without a player that was an Allstar last year, has the best record!!! I want to here your excuse for these guys not having more impact.

Rose had a far better supporting cast than AD, and had arguably the best defense in the league backing him up. AD nearly has his squad in the playoffs in most stacked West ever with not a very good cast at all. His numbers are vastly better, he's scoring the same amount on way better efficiency 25 ppg on 61 ts% to 25 ppg on 55 ts% for Rose, much higher PER 31.8 to 23.5. And that isn't even to mention defense which AD has a ton more impact in.

As for your 2nd statement, yes Rose did have a large responsibility offensively, but what made it more than that of Dwight, Lebron, Dirk etc? Dwight was flat out better when you consider both sides of the ball he was averaging 23 14 on excellent efficiency while winning defensive player of the year. His cast was worse than Rose's too. Lebron and Dirk don't need an explanation as they were clearly better in the playoffs. Wade is better than his numbers suggested, he had to share the ball with Lebron and still managed 26 6 5 on 58 ts% so Rose might've had more responsibility but that does not make him a better player not to mention Wade was also better in the playoffs. Rose was not a better offensive player than LBJ, Wade, Dirk or KD that season.

I don't think i need to explain why Curry is better than Rose of 2011. He is putting up the same numbers as Rose but with much higher efficiency.

[Practice?]

AD is a better player, but he still wouldn't have beat Rose for MVP with his current team since record is taken into account.

[ralph_i_el]

AD is a better player, but he still wouldn't have beat Rose for MVP with his current team since record is taken into account.
Jameer^

[Pointguard]

Rose had a far better supporting cast than AD, and had arguably the best defense in the league backing him up. AD nearly has his squad in the playoffs in most stacked West ever with not a very good cast at all. I was obviously addressing CP3, current Lebron, current Curry and current Westbrook. Guys that you made an allusion to. Their teams are FAAAR better than 2011 Bulls which had no players outside of Rose in the top ten in anything significant.


His numbers are vastly better, he's scoring the same amount on way better efficiency 25 ppg on 61 ts% to 25 ppg on 55 ts% for Rose, much higher PER 31.8 to 23.5. And that isn't even to mention defense which AD has a ton more impact in.
My impact area is different from yours. I myself would rather have more wins, more control, more impact late in the game and more impact beating the elite.


As for your 2nd statement, yes Rose did have a large responsibility offensively, but what made it more than that of Dwight, Lebron, Dirk etc? Dwight was flat out better when you consider both sides of the ball he was averaging 23 14 on excellent efficiency while winning defensive player of the year. His cast was worse than Rose's too. Lebron and Dirk don't need an explanation as they were clearly better in the playoffs. Wade is better than his numbers suggested, he had to share the ball with Lebron and still managed 26 6 5 on 58 ts% so Rose might've had more responsibility but that does not make him a better player not to mention Wade was also better in the playoffs. Rose was not a better offensive player than LBJ, Wade, Dirk or KD that season.

Rose clearly played Atlanta better than Dwight did and had more impact. Rose dominated Atlanta. Dwight had little next to no impact. Durant was just a scorer at that time. You are being a bit too simplistic if you are saying scoring and efficiency make you a better player. You are just parroting what others say here without much substance. Rose controlled the game, Rose made other teams play his game. Rose stopped the elite at his position better than DH did at his position.

If Rose had a player better than himself on that team Chicago runs thru the league - so Wade unfortunately has less impact if his team doesn't win it all when he's on the team of the best player and can't even get the best record, and had a losing record against the elite. Rose had more impact because he didn't have another star player - Wade had two of the most prolific players and versatile players at their positions, and Lebron was the best player in the game while Rose had a new young team, with a new coach and a ton of injuries. I don't have a problem with people saying Dirk and Lebron, the rest of the guys were not of more impact at all and all except Dwight had more help.

If people want to say the Bulls won on defense then Curry shouldn't be mentioned as an MVP candidate this year. He has the best defensive team, a guy that scores as much as he and is a more efficient three point shooter while being a much better defender at the other guard position. He has a top interior defender whose absence causes most of their loses. The best bench in the league. Guys that were top ten in the league in a host of categories.

[Genaro]

Unless you're a Bulls fan it's Brow without much thinking, big men usually also have more impact on the game.

If AD was playing on the let

[aj1987]

Pointguard is a HUGE Rose stan.

[greatest-ever]

I was obviously addressing CP3, current Lebron, current Curry and current Westbrook. Guys that you made an allusion to. Their teams are FAAAR better than 2011 Bulls which had no players outside of Rose in the top ten in anything significant.

My impact area is different from yours. I myself would rather have more wins, more control, more impact late in the game and more impact beating the elite.


Rose clearly played Atlanta better than Dwight did and had more impact. Rose dominated Atlanta. Dwight had little next to no impact. Durant was just a scorer at that time. You are being a bit too simplistic if you are saying scoring and efficiency make you a better player. You are just parroting what others say here without much substance. Rose controlled the game, Rose made other teams play his game. Rose stopped the elite at his position better than DH did at his position.

If Rose had a player better than himself on that team Chicago runs thru the league - so Wade unfortunately has less impact if his team doesn't win it all when he's on the team of the best player and can't even get the best record, and had a losing record against the elite. Rose had more impact because he didn't have another star player - Wade had two of the most prolific players and versatile players at their positions, and Lebron was the best player in the game while Rose had a new young team, with a new coach and a ton of injuries. I don't have a problem with people saying Dirk and Lebron, the rest of the guys were not of more impact at all and all except Dwight had more help.

If people want to say the Bulls won on defense then Curry shouldn't be mentioned as an MVP candidate this year. He has the best defensive team, a guy that scores as much as he and is a more efficient three point shooter while being a much better defender at the other guard position. He has a top interior defender whose absence causes most of their loses. The best bench in the league. Guys that were top ten in the league in a host of categories.
Lol

You just keep spewing that same nonsensical narrative arguments that makes no sense at all such as "more control" "wins" "more impact in late games", "more wins against the elite". Winning games against the elite in the regular season means nothing, Rose fell apart when he went up against an elite team in the playoffs the Heat he averaged 23 7 on 35 fg% and 44 ts% in 45 minutes of play, that's pretty terrible.

Lol @ saying Rose> Wade because his team had the better record, the HEat had a whole new cast of players and stars that were adjusting to playing with one another. Yes the heat had more star power but the Bulls had a much deeper well rounded roster than the heat and better coaching yet they didn't go further in the playoffs. Wade dominated the Celtics and Mavs in the playoffs since you keep bringing up the nonsense of "beating the elite".

And for the record, i never once said Rose wasn't deserving of Mvp, and that he shouldn't have been mentioned i was simply pointing out they had a top 3 defense in the league and great coaching.

One last quick point about Rose having "more impact" against Atlanta than Dwight. Dwight averaged 27 16 on 63 fg% 68 ts%. Rose did not have more impact than Rose, Rose just had the better team.

So yeah like i said Rose had no argument over Lbj, Dirk, Wade or Dwight that season, and you repeating nonsense like "more wins", "more wins against the elite" isn't presenting a logical argument.

As for the players this year, i already said why Curry was better and AD. Lebron doesn't need an explanation, his numbers are better and his team was 2-9 when he missed games this year or something like that. Harden has better numbers than Rose, and is keeping the Rockets in the top 3 in the brutal West with Howard being banged up all year.

[DMAVS41]

the first sentence was right, and the second sentence proves that your one second of illumination died an early death. You tried to compare PGs on the same team and came out saying CJ Watson was better defensively than Rose. And came to this same conclusion three times! And now you are going to compare PF/Center to a Point guard on a different team.

The much better comparison is Dirk's MVP year since they are both practical seven footers. That's the much better comparison. And is one that isn't above your guys heads.

All I said was that with Watson on the court defensively...they were better. Which is just a fact.

Sorry, but you can compare bigs to smalls. It's harder, but you absolutely can.

There is nothing wrong with saying Shaq was better than Kevin Johnson. It's just a basketball fact.

Much like there is nothing wrong with saying that current Anthony Davis is much better than 2011 Rose...again, it's just a basketball fact.

[SugarHill]

Pointguard is a HUGE Rose stan.
One time, he made a list of things that made Rose a better athlete than Westbrook and he said the same thing in 5 different ways to pad his list. :lol

[Pointguard]

Lol

You just keep spewing that same nonsensical narrative arguments that makes no sense at all such as "more control" "wins" "more impact in late games", "more wins against the elite". Winning games against the elite in the regular season means nothing, Rose fell apart when he went up against an elite team in the playoffs the Heat he averaged 23 7 on 35 fg% and 44 ts% in 45 minutes of play, that's pretty terrible.

Bwhahaha, you are one strange dude. Its pathetic and everybody knows who you are. How are we comparing a guy who hasn't been in the playoffs against a guy who won two rounds? Did that ever dawn on your dumb azz. If they throw the kitchen sink at AD he too will be thrown off his game.


And for the record, i never once said Rose wasn't deserving of Mvp, and that he shouldn't have been mentioned i was simply pointing out they had a top 3 defense in the league and great coaching.
So Curry has the top defense in the league, has a player next to him that will likely score more than him and who plays better defense. His coach runs a vastly superior offense than the Bulls ran that year.


One last quick point about Rose having "more impact" against Atlanta than Dwight. Dwight averaged 27 16 on 63 fg% 68 ts%. Rose did not have more impact than Rose, Rose just had the better team.
DH practically had a 50/20 game and they weren't even in the game. When DH had an 8/8 game it was the only game they won handily. The better argument is not about impact for DH its more about were his stats a measure of the teams success at all. Wooooo 68% TS. Atlanta must have been shook.


So yeah like i said Rose had no argument over Lbj, Dirk, Wade or Dwight that season, and you repeating nonsense like "more wins", "more wins against the elite" isn't presenting a logical argument.Dirk rarely ever plays like a power forward. He doesn't play gritty defense, rebounds considerably low for great power forward, is hardly a hustle player. Stats are rarely ever great for his position. Take out the wins, late game heroics he pretty much just a scorer for his position. But add the wins, late game takeovers and he belongs in the conversation.

Those are measures of impact, especially when your team goes thru all types of changes - better than the lame stats you are addicted too.


As for the players this year, i already said why Curry was better and AD. Lebron doesn't need an explanation, his numbers are better and his team was 2-9 when he missed games this year or something like that. Harden has better numbers than Rose, and is keeping the Rockets in the top 3 in the brutal West with Howard being banged up all year.

Really guy, why are you changing screen-names, I know your habits better than you do. I know your subconscious better than you do. You just one strange cat. You hate Rose, we all get it. whoop-de-dam-do.

[DMAVS41]

One of my favorite things on here is when PG clearly loses an argument (happens frequently) and then he starts accusing everyone arguing against him of being the same person.

Just so funny because of how even dumber he'd look if he knew the truth that we are all different people.

And I don't hate Rose. I don't like his attitude or his style of play, but don't hate him at all. I can't stand his fans...specifically you and a few others.

That think it's absurd to compare Anthony Davis and Rose. Just hilarious really, but I guess even debating it is giving too much voice to your side.

Like debating with a creationist about evolution...even hearing them out is giving too much credence to their side.

[Pointguard]

One time, he made a list of things that made Rose a better athlete than Westbrook and he said the same thing in 5 different ways to pad his list. :lol
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10660675&postcount=70

That's the thread and post.

[SugarHill]

One of my favorite things on here is when PG clearly loses an argument (happens frequently) and then he starts accusing everyone arguing against him of being the same person.

Just so funny because of how even dumber he'd look if he knew the truth that we are all different people.

And I don't hate Rose. I don't like his attitude or his style of play, but don't hate him at all. I can't stand his fans...specifically you and a few others.

That think it's absurd to compare Anthony Davis and Rose. Just hilarious really, but I guess even debating it is giving too much voice to your side.

Like debating with a creationist about evolution...even hearing them out is giving too much credence to their side.

Rose stans are basically creationists

[SugarHill]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10660675&postcount=70

That's the thread and post.

Nah. Not that thread nor that post. It might have been about a different comparison but definitely included Rose. I even commented on it.

[Pointguard]

One of my favorite things on here is when PG clearly loses an argument (happens frequently) and then he starts accusing everyone arguing against him of being the same person.
Please show me where I lost an argument? I can show you at least a halft of dozen times when I embarrassed you. Just tell me you want to see them.

This is the third time I accused you of doing this.

One, very few posters are long winded in this portion of the board - definitely less than ten. Buts lets say seven

Two, fewer posters are long winded and haters. Lets say five.

Three, even fewer that are Rose haters. Now we are down to you, already.


You just keep spewing that same nonsensical narrative arguments that makes no sense at all such as "more control" "wins" "more impact in late games", "more wins against the elite". Winning games against the elite in the regular season means nothing, Rose fell apart when he went up against an elite team in the playoffs the Heat he averaged 23 7 on 35 fg% and 44 ts% in 45 minutes of play, that's pretty terrible.
Four, fewer posters use the word Spew as often you do.

Five, fewer posters use the word narrative as often as you do.

Six, fewer posters will use the exact same argument you use.

Seven, brand new posters for some reason alludes as being familiar with me in an argument I only had with you - "you just keep spewing"

Eight, greatest ever has your views on DH as well.

Nine, the odds of long winded haters having 9 similar habits/likes/dislikes/vocab in only four sentences is very unlikely - I included the Rose stat he used as well.



Just so funny because of how even dumber he'd look if he knew the truth that we are all different people.
How would you know that the three other people aren't one??? This is definitely an indication of something, and you aren't bright enough to know better. Its really sad.


And I don't hate Rose. I don't like his attitude or his style of play, but don't hate him at all. I can't stand his fans...specifically you and a few others.
Dislikes aren't obsessions. You have an obsession dude, its obvious as day. You have to go negative if you see Rose's name. Its not healthy, its a bit crazy.

[Pointguard]

Nah. Not that thread nor that post. It might have been about a different comparison but definitely included Rose. I even commented on it.
I searched all the key words you provided (athlete, Rose, Westbrook (compare, contrast(qualities (pointguard, SugarHill)))). Not there. The only one that comes up is the one I provided as its right on point with what you said.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Anthony Davis is a better player, obviously. Derrick however was definitely the more impactful closer / winner. Kind of a LeBron v.s. Kobe situation circa 2006 - 2010.

[Ariza4three]

Bwhahaha, you are one strange dude. Its pathetic and everybody knows who you are. How are we comparing a guy who hasn't been in the playoffs against a guy who won two rounds? Did that ever dawn on your dumb azz. If they throw the kitchen sink at AD he too will be thrown off his game.

So Curry has the top defense in the league, has a player next to him that will likely score more than him and who plays better defense. His coach runs a vastly superior offense than the Bulls ran that year.

DH practically had a 50/20 game and they weren't even in the game. When DH had an 8/8 game it was the only game they won handily. The better argument is not about impact for DH its more about were his stats a measure of the teams success at all. Wooooo 68% TS. Atlanta must have been shook.
Dirk rarely ever plays like a power forward. He doesn't play gritty defense, rebounds considerably low for great power forward, is hardly a hustle player. Stats are rarely ever great for his position. Take out the wins, late game heroics he pretty much just a scorer for his position. But add the wins, late game takeovers and he belongs in the conversation.

Those are measures of impact, especially when your team goes thru all types of changes - better than the lame stats you are addicted too.


Really guy, why are you changing screen-names, I know your habits better than you do. I know your subconscious better than you do. You just one strange cat. You hate Rose, we all get it. whoop-de-dam-do.
Tell me Orlando's record after Dwight was traded. Tell me it right now. Then tell me Chicago's record once Rose went down.

[D.J.]

You can't compare bigs with perimeter players. It's a completely different game, especially since today's game favors perimeter players and slashing. But let's look at AD:


The guy hasn't even celebrated his 22nd birthday yet and he's averaging 25/10 with 3 BPG and going into tonight, had a Pelicans team 1 game out of the 8th seed. If the season ended today, he would have the all-time record for PER in a season. He fills the statsheet and has amazing impact at both ends of the floor.

Basketball is a team game. Even Michael Jordan struggled with team success until Scottie Pippen came along and became a two-way player that played GOAT-like perimeter defense with his length and versatility. Even without Derrick Rose, the Bulls were/are an amazing defensive powerhouse and they proved that when he didn't play. They upset the Nets without him and won game 1 against the eventual champs and really only failed because of fatigue and injuries to active players. The Pelicans now are no where near the Bulls, but that doesn't take away from what AD is doing. They're a 20 win team without him and if they do end up the 8th seed, he's the true MVP IMO.

[JohnFreeman]

AD is a one in a generation player

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Davis > Rose.

[SamuraiSWISH]

AD is a one in a generation player
AD is a one in a generation player in the league

[Eric Cartman]

Rose was fantastic and clutch as hell, but AD is amazing.

Best player in the league next year easily :applause:

[Fire Colangelo]

For the record... AD is 7-8 against Eastern teams. Let's not pretend the Pelicans would hit 50 wins if they were in the East.

[Prime_Shaq]

ill take rose. 30-10 record in clutch games is something davis cant do. 2011 rose was about 24-7 against western teams, thats a 2nd seed right now.
http://streamable.com/04a
http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/3UOtWO1UqcqjWA7toxNpRQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTM3NztpbD1wbGFuZTtweG 9mZj01MDtweW9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz02NzA-/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/sports/2015-02-07/2b037aa0-ae81-11e4-978d-45b047feb787_AD2615.jpg

[nathanjizzle]

i cant believe some idiot just said publicly that AD is "literally" twice as better as MVP rose.

[greatest-ever]

Bwhahaha, you are one strange dude. Its pathetic and everybody knows who you are. How are we comparing a guy who hasn't been in the playoffs against a guy who won two rounds? Did that ever dawn on your dumb azz. If they throw the kitchen sink at AD he too will be thrown off his game.

So Curry has the top defense in the league, has a player next to him that will likely score more than him and who plays better defense. His coach runs a vastly superior offense than the Bulls ran that year.

DH practically had a 50/20 game and they weren't even in the game. When DH had an 8/8 game it was the only game they won handily. The better argument is not about impact for DH its more about were his stats a measure of the teams success at all. Wooooo 68% TS. Atlanta must have been shook.
Dirk rarely ever plays like a power forward. He doesn't play gritty defense, rebounds considerably low for great power forward, is hardly a hustle player. Stats are rarely ever great for his position. Take out the wins, late game heroics he pretty much just a scorer for his position. But add the wins, late game takeovers and he belongs in the conversation.

Those are measures of impact, especially when your team goes thru all types of changes - better than the lame stats you are addicted too.


Really guy, why are you changing screen-names, I know your habits better than you do. I know your subconscious better than you do. You just one strange cat. You hate Rose, we all get it. whoop-de-dam-do.
Changing screen names and everyone knows who i am? Really? I'm new to this board and this my first username so good job on the false accusations.

I might continue this argument if your arguments actually held any water. Saying that Davis wasn't better than Rose because he isn't in the playoffs is embarassingly disingenuous. I guess by that logic tiago splitter>Dermarcus cousins lol.

Good day though.

[DatAsh]

You can't compare records with these guys due to the disparity in help they had.

Davis' defense is fairly overrated, but I've still got to go with him on this one.

Rose had a much better case for MVP though given the traditional criteria.

[Pointguard]

AD will be the most interesting player in the league the next few years. He's got the burden of whether a bigman can be the man in the league again is on him. I think he will hold the realm as best player in two years, with a chance of it being next year if Lebron and Durant don't up the ante. But people comparing him to point guards serves no end what-so-ever when he, obviously, should be compared to other great bigs. But for all the Rose comparison threads that have come out lately, have turned out very well for the Bulls.

[DMAVS41]

Please show me where I lost an argument? I can show you at least a halft of dozen times when I embarrassed you. Just tell me you want to see them.

This is the third time I accused you of doing this.

One, very few posters are long winded in this portion of the board - definitely less than ten. Buts lets say seven

Two, fewer posters are long winded and haters. Lets say five.

Three, even fewer that are Rose haters. Now we are down to you, already.

Four, fewer posters use the word Spew as often you do.

Five, fewer posters use the word narrative as often as you do.

Six, fewer posters will use the exact same argument you use.

Seven, brand new posters for some reason alludes as being familiar with me in an argument I only had with you - "you just keep spewing"

Eight, greatest ever has your views on DH as well.

Nine, the odds of long winded haters having 9 similar habits/likes/dislikes/vocab in only four sentences is very unlikely - I included the Rose stat he used as well.


How would you know that the three other people aren't one??? This is definitely an indication of something, and you aren't bright enough to know better. Its really sad.

Dislikes aren't obsessions. You have an obsession dude, its obvious as day. You have to go negative if you see Rose's name. Its not healthy, its a bit crazy.


Dude...you have lost it. We aren't the same person. I don't know what more to tell you. It's one of the funniest things ever knowing you are dead wrong on that and watching you flail around like a fish out of water.

As for the Rose stuff. Just quit...you haven't won anything. The guy you propped in 11 played about the worst series imaginable and the guy I propped had an all time great playoff run.

We argued all year who was better...and it became as clear as night and day one 2011 ended that Dirk was clearly a better player than Rose.

And I'm sorry if you don't like that, but it's just a fact at this point.

Just like it's a ****ing fact that current AD is a far superior player to Rose in 11. Like...do we really have to argue this? The fact that you clowns are shows just how big of homers you are.

[SamuraiSWISH]

We argued all year who was better...and it became as clear as night and day one 2011 ended that Dirk was clearly a better player than Rose.
Just like it's an inarguable fact Dirk's 2007 MVP is more of a league embarrassment than Rose's 2011 MVP. Nowtizki let his 60+ win Mavericks get offed in the 1st round by an 8th seed, and didn't even go down swinging.

:oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

Just like it's an inarguable fact Dirk's 2007 MVP is more of a league embarrassment than Rose's 2011 MVP. Nowtizki let his 60+ win Mavericks get offed in the 1st round by an 8th seed, and didn't even go down swinging.

:oldlol:

Not sure about that.

Considering Dirk was better against the Warriors than Rose was against the Heat.

But I don't claim Dirk was the best player in 07...nor do I claim he played well in the playoffs.

So that part is kind of irrelevant.

You won't find me saying 07 Dirk was better than 04 KG or 03 Duncan or something....

Which is about the equivalent of saying 11 Rose was better than current Davis or Curry...etc.

You see the difference?



Also, not sure about how you define going down swinging...Dirk certainly left it all out there in game 5 when we were done and he ended up absolutely dominating the final minutes to keep us alive. In game 6 he didn't even have a chance to go down swinging...we got run off the court by 25 and the game was clearly over midway through the 3rd.

He didn't have the luxury of playing like complete shit and still getting into close games every single time like Rose did...He didn't have the luxury of an elite coach and a very good supporting cast capable of keeping it close against a top 2 team in the league despite his poor play. In fact, Dirk had the opposite. He had a team so reliant on him that a 20/11/2 54% TS performance led to his team getting run off the court by an 8 seed.

While Rose played even worse and his team still had great chances to beat an elite Lebron/Wade/Bosh led team.

I'll let you figure out which team was more of a one man show and who had better coaching and better help.

[Pointguard]

Dude...you have lost it. We aren't the same person. I don't know what more to tell you. It's one of the funniest things ever knowing you are dead wrong on that and watching you flail around like a fish out of water.

Bwhahaha, this is hilarious. The odds of nine unique character traits, along with irrational hate, would be shared in four sentences are like Powerball odds.


Not sure about that.

Considering Dirk was better against the Warriors than Rose was against the Heat.

So Rose winning two series on his back, isn't better than a one seed that fell flat on his face.

In two of the series most critical games Dirk ravaged for 11 points per game on 6 for 29 or 20% overall and TS% under 25%.

Dirk had 8 points on 2 for 13 shooting, 154 FG% and 271 TS% in a clinching lost.

Dirk wasn't the best offensive player on the team by a long shot and has no chance at being the best defensive player.

Dirk gave up leadership of the team to Howard - a journey man pot head.

Dirk had no answers for a guy 4 inches smaller, a team that gave up the most points in the league.



Also, not sure about how you define going down swinging...Dirk certainly left it all out there in game 5 when we were done and he ended up absolutely dominating the final minutes to keep us alive. In game 6 he didn't even have a chance to go down swinging...we got run off the court by 25 and the game was clearly over midway through the 3rd.
Ugggh, thats the definition, not going down swinging. 8 points on 2 for 13 shooting, 154 FG% and 271 TS%. He destroyed his chance of going down swinging against the worst defensive team in the playoffs. He didn't even go down shooting. He wasn't their leader at this point. He forgot who he was or even that he was supposed to make a stand and you are suggesting that he had a better run than Rose. :lol

Ohhh, and I'm sure you're winning this argument too.

[DMAVS41]

Bwhahaha, this is hilarious. The odds of nine unique character traits, along with irrational hate, would be shared in four sentences are like Powerball odds.


So Rose winning two series on his back, isn't better than a one seed that fell flat on his face.

In two of the series most critical games Dirk ravaged for 11 points per game on 6 for 29 or 20% overall and TS% under 25%.

Dirk had 8 points on 2 for 13 shooting, 154 FG% and 271 TS% in a clinching lost.

Dirk wasn't the best offensive player on the team by a long shot and has no chance at being the best defensive player.

Dirk gave up leadership of the team to Howard - a journey man pot head.

Dirk had no answers for a guy 4 inches smaller, a team that gave up the most points in the league.


Ugggh, thats the definition, not going down swinging. 8 points on 2 for 13 shooting, 154 FG% and 271 TS%. He destroyed his chance of going down swinging against the worst defensive team in the playoffs. He didn't even go down shooting. He wasn't their leader at this point. He forgot who he was or even that he was supposed to make a stand and you are suggesting that he had a better run than Rose. :lol

Ohhh, and I'm sure you're winning this argument too.

Again...it's irrefutable. Rose played slightly worse than Dirk overall in the ECF. Again...here are the numbers:

Dirk: 20/11/2 38%fg 40% efg 51% TS 2 steals 1 block 2 TO....111 ortg 109 drtg

Rose: 23/7/4 35%fg 38% efg 44% TS 1 steal 0 block 4 TO....93 ortg 107 drtg

And that doesn't even take into account fully the depth of the Rose play as he crumbled late in every close game.

How the **** can you honestly think Rose was better than Dirk in those series? I mean...it's the classic which pile of shit smells worse....they were both terrible, but I'm not the one acting like crazy here like you and other Rose clowns.

And to top it off....one team gets laughed off the court by a Warriors team maybe half as good as the Heat. The other team loses 4 straight very close games...including an OT game and 2 games in which they took the lead going into the 4th qtr.

Who had more help? It's not even debatable....

So when you clowns bring up 07...it actually makes my point. Rose had a far better team than you guys give him credit for. Because a one man team doesn't keep it that close against an elite Lebron/Wade/Bosh led team. A one man team gets their shit laughed off the court by the Warriors when that one man plays like crap...and what do you know...the evidence is all on my side as usual.

Rose fans on ISH...where just shooting a lot makes one player better than another.

"Rose went down swinging"...he shot his team out of every game and choked at the line and crumbled late with pathetic turnovers and poor shots. But he shot a lot...so he actually played well.

GTFO you clown

[SamuraiSWISH]

Bwhahaha, this is hilarious. The odds of nine unique character traits, along with irrational hate, would be shared in four sentences are like Powerball odds.


So Rose winning two series on his back, isn't better than a one seed that fell flat on his face.

In two of the series most critical games Dirk ravaged for 11 points per game on 6 for 29 or 20% overall and TS% under 25%.

Dirk had 8 points on 2 for 13 shooting, 154 FG% and 271 TS% in a clinching lost.

Dirk wasn't the best offensive player on the team by a long shot and has no chance at being the best defensive player.

Dirk gave up leadership of the team to Howard - a journey man pot head.

Dirk had no answers for a guy 4 inches smaller, a team that gave up the most points in the league.


Ugggh, thats the definition, not going down swinging. 8 points on 2 for 13 shooting, 154 FG% and 271 TS%. He destroyed his chance of going down swinging against the worst defensive team in the playoffs. He didn't even go down shooting. He wasn't their leader at this point. He forgot who he was or even that he was supposed to make a stand and you are suggesting that he had a better run than Rose. :lol

Ohhh, and I'm sure you're winning this argument too.
Went to dinner, came back ... old lady watching the Grammies, and witness this:

http://theworstthingsforsale.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/tumblr_m5y6obla3N1rt7j2bo1_500.jpg

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Pointguard]

Again...it's irrefutable. Rose played slightly worse than Dirk overall in the ECF. Again...here are the numbers:

Dirk: 20/11/2 38%fg 40% efg 51% TS 2 steals 1 block 2 TO....111 ortg 109 drtg

Rose: 23/7/4 35%fg 38% efg 44% TS 1 steal 0 block 4 TO....93 ortg 107 drtg


One team was an 8 seed that never made it to the playoffs. The other the birth of a super team.

One team was the worst defensive team in the playoffs. The other was the best defensive team capable of playing the Bulls.

One guy was guarded by a player of a smaller position. The other guarded by the best PG defender in playoff history.

One team had spent years building around Dirk. The other team was brand new and had severe problems breaking a trap.



And to top it off....one team gets laughed off the court by a Warriors team maybe half as good as the Heat. The other team loses 4 straight very close games...including an OT game and 2 games in which they took the lead going into the 4th qtr.
??? Ok thanks for arguing against yourself.


Who had more help? It's not even debatable....
Well, Dirk wasn't even the fourth best player on his team when they got eliminated. Over the series he was definitively a lesser player than Howard. And in the more important games Terry, was also better. There were five Mavs that had better games than Dirk in that series. The Bulls had their second and third best players benched in the 4th quarters.

There was only one game where a Bulls player really stepped up his play like the 4 Mavs players did in Dirk's stead. Only one game. Rose was the best Bulls player that whole series and save only one game. So you saying it wasn't debatable has to be an indictment of how bad Dirk fell off.



So when you clowns bring up 07...it actually makes my point. Rose had a far better team than you guys give him credit for.
See above.


Because a one man team doesn't keep it that close against an elite Lebron/Wade/Bosh led team. A one man team gets their shit laughed off the court by the Warriors when that one man plays like crap...and what do you know...the evidence is all on my side as usual.
You're looking really sharp now



"Rose went down swinging"...he shot his team out of every game and choked at the line and crumbled late with pathetic turnovers and poor shots. But he shot a lot...so he actually played well.

His team couldn't get it together and he knew enough to at least remain aggressive. He didn't go in his corner like Dirk, abandons ship and become the fifth best player on his team.

I don't mean to be this hard on Dirk but you keep going there. And I'm sure you are winning this argument too.