KevinNYC
02-09-2015, 12:18 PM
9/11 truthers are obsessed with minute details of the 9/11 attacks and will over overwhelm you with their "facts" and questions. In the course of answering one question, you may concede to them a given "fact." They often posit one fact as given while asking a different question.
Lots of 9/11 WTC discussion starts off with some dubious facts. Here are some points 9/11 truthers repeat that are false.
• The towers fell “at freefall speed”
It’s actually pretty easy to find pics or video of the collapse that show debris from the collapse falling faster than the buillding itself
http://femr2.ucoz.com/_ph/6/2/139901890.gif
The towers fell in about 2/3rds of freefall speed. The massive scale of these buildings often complicates the picture. The freefall debris is probably 20 stories ahead of the collapse in the image above.
• Steel Columns were smashed into dust.
Actually the dust was from the acres and acres of sheetrock used in the towers.
A giant pile of metal was left at the bottom of the towers that was probably 10 stories tall.
http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/2011/images/11-09-07/Ground-Zero-NYC-September-17-2001.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baAFwLwTD2A
• All the concrete was smashed into dust.
This is not true, chunks of concrete could be seen all over the pile
Note the concrete hanging off the rebar.
http://www.stevespak.com/fires/manhattan/void.jpg
• Steel Columns were immediately shipped to China and there was no investigation. No actually it was shipped to a few local scrap yards including the Fresh Kills Landfill in Staten Island
http://www.epa.gov/wtc/images/wtc_slideshow_0007.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uls-qPlnYj4
A group from the Structural Engineer Society of NY made at least 40 trips to the scrap yards to examine the debris and select pieces of steel to save for examination. They were specifically looking for the columns and other pieces from the floors that collapsed
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/docs/hanger17/core6.jpg
• The small tops of the WTC did not have enough weight to demolish the buildings, that the bottoms of the buildings were made to support heavy weight so they would stop the motion or deflect it to one side.
One of leading WTC truthers once used cardboard boxes to illustrate this point.
https://sites.google.com/site/911guide/Gagebox-full-full.jpg
However, cardboard boxes are not made of thousands of interconnected parts like the floor sections of the WTC were. To make this argument they often confuse static force with a dynamic force. You can put a kettlebell on a fine China plate and it will not break, but if you drop the kettlebell on it, the plate will shatter.
You also don’t even have to resort to analogy to prove the top half of building can bring a whole building down. There is a type of controlled demolition that crashes the top part of a building into the bottom. It’s called verinage. It’s mainly used in Europe. In this method, they prep the building for demolition and then attach cables to the support columns and yank them. No explosives are used, but they still produce giant dust clouds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwFHEoiUZ7o
• The towers “fell into their own footprint”
Well the towers footprints are preserved. When the towers fell, debris fell not just within the WTC plaza, but hit buildings across the street. This is because the when the floors were stripped away from the outer columns, all the interior support is gone and without their interior support these columns fell outwards. Imagine if you had a refrigerator box that was six feet tall and you slicing all the corners at once. The sides would fall outwards. The top columns in this case were like 700 and 900 feet high and ended up impacting buildings across the street.
http://placeforvacations.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Ground-Zero-700x429.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/df/WTC_Area_With_Building_Numbers_50dpi.png/578px-WTC_Area_With_Building_Numbers_50dpi.png
A structural engineering firm mapped the debris of the towers. The debris was not in their own footprint, in fact, it looked like this.
http://www.nmsr.org/tower1_dmg.jpg
Lots of 9/11 WTC discussion starts off with some dubious facts. Here are some points 9/11 truthers repeat that are false.
• The towers fell “at freefall speed”
It’s actually pretty easy to find pics or video of the collapse that show debris from the collapse falling faster than the buillding itself
http://femr2.ucoz.com/_ph/6/2/139901890.gif
The towers fell in about 2/3rds of freefall speed. The massive scale of these buildings often complicates the picture. The freefall debris is probably 20 stories ahead of the collapse in the image above.
• Steel Columns were smashed into dust.
Actually the dust was from the acres and acres of sheetrock used in the towers.
A giant pile of metal was left at the bottom of the towers that was probably 10 stories tall.
http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/2011/images/11-09-07/Ground-Zero-NYC-September-17-2001.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baAFwLwTD2A
• All the concrete was smashed into dust.
This is not true, chunks of concrete could be seen all over the pile
Note the concrete hanging off the rebar.
http://www.stevespak.com/fires/manhattan/void.jpg
• Steel Columns were immediately shipped to China and there was no investigation. No actually it was shipped to a few local scrap yards including the Fresh Kills Landfill in Staten Island
http://www.epa.gov/wtc/images/wtc_slideshow_0007.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uls-qPlnYj4
A group from the Structural Engineer Society of NY made at least 40 trips to the scrap yards to examine the debris and select pieces of steel to save for examination. They were specifically looking for the columns and other pieces from the floors that collapsed
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/docs/hanger17/core6.jpg
• The small tops of the WTC did not have enough weight to demolish the buildings, that the bottoms of the buildings were made to support heavy weight so they would stop the motion or deflect it to one side.
One of leading WTC truthers once used cardboard boxes to illustrate this point.
https://sites.google.com/site/911guide/Gagebox-full-full.jpg
However, cardboard boxes are not made of thousands of interconnected parts like the floor sections of the WTC were. To make this argument they often confuse static force with a dynamic force. You can put a kettlebell on a fine China plate and it will not break, but if you drop the kettlebell on it, the plate will shatter.
You also don’t even have to resort to analogy to prove the top half of building can bring a whole building down. There is a type of controlled demolition that crashes the top part of a building into the bottom. It’s called verinage. It’s mainly used in Europe. In this method, they prep the building for demolition and then attach cables to the support columns and yank them. No explosives are used, but they still produce giant dust clouds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwFHEoiUZ7o
• The towers “fell into their own footprint”
Well the towers footprints are preserved. When the towers fell, debris fell not just within the WTC plaza, but hit buildings across the street. This is because the when the floors were stripped away from the outer columns, all the interior support is gone and without their interior support these columns fell outwards. Imagine if you had a refrigerator box that was six feet tall and you slicing all the corners at once. The sides would fall outwards. The top columns in this case were like 700 and 900 feet high and ended up impacting buildings across the street.
http://placeforvacations.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Ground-Zero-700x429.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/df/WTC_Area_With_Building_Numbers_50dpi.png/578px-WTC_Area_With_Building_Numbers_50dpi.png
A structural engineering firm mapped the debris of the towers. The debris was not in their own footprint, in fact, it looked like this.
http://www.nmsr.org/tower1_dmg.jpg