Toni Kukoc Top 30 plays

[pauk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezxjIX0GpIo

Checkout those passes & gw's. :bowdown: One of my favorite players of all time.

[julizaver]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezxjIX0GpIo

Checkout those passes & gw's. :bowdown: One of my favorite players of all time.

It was my favourite player during '90s and I watched him when with Beneton and Yugoslavian national team, after that in Bulls.

Very talanted and versatile offensive player, if not with the Bulls playing limited minutes and less touches behind Pippen/Jordan/Rodman he would be a 20 ppg 5 reb 5 apg player and would feature in at least 3-4 All-Star games.

[Foster5k]

Damn. I really, REALLY miss the 90s Bulls.

[97 bulls]

Definitely would've been a muli allstar. Easily a 20/5/7 guy if he had the opportunity. Why isn't he in the hall of fame?

[CeltsGarlic]

thought it was croatia squad for a sec :lol

Love Kukoc

[pauk]

Remember that crazy buzzerbeater 3 he hit right after Reggie hit a "gamewinner" with 0.8 sec left and bowed to the Bulls crowd midcourt? :roll:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOMzdxynChs

[3ball]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NSpgbPcxoU

this is easily the #1 play of kukoc's career - it saved potty pippen and the Bulls from being beaten easily in that series.

of course, without Kukoc replacing Jordan, the Bulls would never have even won 55 or gotten a high seed, so they would have lost to NY or another top seed in the 1st round instead of the 2nd... :confusedshrug:

[mehyaM24]

one of my favorite players :bowdown:

kukoc was being hyped by the front office and fans and instantly became one of the most well known international talents - what made him so great, though, was his playmaking and shooting. toni was all about finesse but with a hint of toughness.

awesome player, and a huge addition to the Bulls in the 90's - he and pippen are BIG reasons why chicago was able to maintain a 55 game winning season following jordan's first retirement. if the bulls had just gotten a serviceable shooting guard, i dont think its out of the question those guys could have won it all in 1994 and 1995 (without the injuries).

[Smoke117]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NSpgbPcxoU

this is easily the #1 play of kukoc's career - it saved potty pippen and the Bulls from being beaten easily in that series.

of course, without Kukoc replacing Jordan, the Bulls would never have even won 55 or gotten a high seed, so they would have lost to NY or another top seed in the 1st round instead of the 2nd... :confusedshrug:

lol...Kukoc barely did shit in 94. He was the 4th best player on the team. (and thats 4th best after Pippen, Grant, and Armstrong not Jordan, Pippen, Rodman like two years later) Settle down. He was also a liability defensively any time he set foot on the court throughout his entire career.

[3ball]

one of my favorite players :bowdown:

kukoc was being hyped by the front office and fans and instantly became one of the most well known international talents - what made him so great, though, was his playmaking and shooting. toni was all about finesse but with a hint of toughness.

awesome player, and a huge addition to the Bulls in the 90's - he and pippen are big reasons why chicago were able to maintain a 55 winning season following jordan's first retirement. if the bulls had just gotten a serviceable shooting guard, i dont think its out of the question those guys could have won it all in 1994 and 1995 (without the injuries).


well, indeed, we have considerable evidence of what is needed for SG's to successfully 3-peat in the triangle.. here are MJ's stats in 1996-1998 and Kobe's from 2008-2010 (very similar - MJ's are superior, as needed with no dominant big):


Jordan 1996-1998 vs. Kobe 2008-2010... REGULAR SEASON

Jordan.. 29.6 PPG, 6.1 RPG, 4.0 APG, 2.2 TO, 1.9 STL, 0.5 BLK, 48.2% FG
Kobe.... 27.4 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 5.1 APG, 3.0 TO, 1.6 STL, 0.4 BLK, 46.1% FG


Jordan 1996-1998 vs. Kobe 2008-2010... FINALS

Jordan.. 31.1 PPG, 5.4 RPG, 4.0 APG, 2.0 TO, 43.4% FG
Kobe.... 29.2 PPG, 6.2 RPG, 5.1 APG, 3.7 TO, 41.3% FG


Of course, it isn't just the stats - making up for the lack of a dominant big would require any Jordan replacement to get his stats optimally within the team, and also match every bit of his clutch performance... Here's how close the 1997 and 1998 Finals were:

In the 1997 Finals, the Bulls needed a Jordan game-winner to win Game 1, and another Jordan game-winner to win the flu-game in Game 5... Also, Game 6 required a Jordan game-winning assist to Kerr - Not even the great, clutch Kobe has come close to matching this level Jordan clutch performance in ANY series of his career, and neither has any other player, ever.

And of course in 1998, the Bulls also squeaked by Utah, requiring goat game-winner in Game 6, and requiring Jordan to score a record 38% of his team's points for the series.
.

[mehyaM24]

the bulls played differently in 1994 than they did in 1993 (obviously). they were still able to manage 55 wins, though - and were just a hair shy of making the conference finals with a CBA pete myers in place of jordan. like i said - you give the bulls a sg like reggie miller or even mitch richmond, who are perfect for the triangle BTW, because of their shooting and space creating, you would have a rough time knocking them out. the bulls likely win against indiana with richmond, and are at least a 50/50 against the rockets.

^^ in all fairness to jordan, i'm not sure the bulls beat the rockets with him either.

[3ball]

the bulls played differently in 1994 than they did in 1993 (obviously). they were still able to manage 55 wins, though - and were just a hair shy of making the conference finals with a CBA pete myers in place of jordan. like i said - you give the bulls a sg like reggie miller or even mitch richmond, who are perfect for the triangle BTW, because of their shooting and space creating, you would have a tough time taking them out. the bulls likely win against indiana with richmond, and are at least a 50/50 against the rockets.

^^ in all fairness to jordan, i'm not sure the bulls beat the rockets with him either.
the Bulls would have been heavy favorites against the Rockets if Jordan had stuck around in 1994.. of course, if the Bulls are at least 50/50" with Ritchmond as you said, than they'd be heavy favorites against the Rockets with MJ even by your estimation.

If Ritchmond's 0.109 WS/48 and 17.7 PER makes them "at least 50/50" to beat the Rockets, than what's Jordan's 0.317 WS/48 and 29.4 PER going to do?

plus, MJ used to own Hakeem (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7N_qSFAsP8), so much so that Hakeem was quite scared of MJ (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10931187&postcount=85).
.

[Smoke117]

well, indeed, we have considerable evidence of what is needed for SG's to successfully 3-peat in the triangle.. here are MJ's stats in 1996-1998 and Kobe's from 2008-2010 (very similar - MJ's are superior, as needed with no dominant big):


Jordan 1996-1998 vs. Kobe 2008-2010... REGULAR SEASON

Jordan.. 29.6 PPG, 6.1 RPG, 4.0 APG, 2.2 TO, 1.9 STL, 0.5 BLK, 48.2% FG
Kobe.... 27.4 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 5.1 APG, 3.0 TO, 1.6 STL, 0.4 BLK, 46.1% FG


Jordan 1996-1998 vs. Kobe 2008-2010... FINALS

Jordan.. 31.1 PPG, 5.4 RPG, 4.0 APG, 2.0 TO, 43.4% FG
Kobe.... 29.2 PPG, 6.2 RPG, 5.1 APG, 3.7 TO, 41.3% FG


Of course, it isn't just the stats - making up for the lack of a dominant big would require any Jordan replacement to get his stats optimally within the team, and also match every bit of his clutch performance... Here's how close the 1997 and 1998 Finals were:

In the 1997 Finals, the Bulls needed a Jordan game-winner to win Game 1, and another Jordan game-winner to win the flu-game in Game 5... Also, Game 6 required a Jordan game-winning assist to Kerr - Not even the great, clutch Kobe has come close to matching this level Jordan clutch performance in ANY series of his career, and neither has any other player, ever.

And of course in 1998, the Bulls also squeaked by Utah, requiring goat game-winner in Game 6, and requiring Jordan to score a record 38% of his team's points for the series.
.

Another thread you just have to hijack and make all about Jordan...:facepalm

[OldSchoolBBall]

These ****ing trolls always talking about 55 wins in 1994 lol.

[3ball]

Another thread you just have to hijack and make all about Jordan...:facepalm
:no:

all relevant to the discussion with mehytaM24

[mehyaM24]

the Bulls would have been heavy favorites against the Rockets if Jordan had stuck around in 1994.. of course, if the Bulls are at least 50/50" with Ritchmond as you said, than they'd be heavy favorites against the Rockets with MJ even by your estimation.

If Ritchmond's 0.109 WS/48 and 17.7 PER makes them "at least 50/50" to beat the Rockets, than what's Jordan's 0.317 WS/48 and 29.4 PER going to do?

plus, MJ used to own Hakeem (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7N_qSFAsP8), so much so that Hakeem was quite scared of MJ (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10931187&postcount=85).
.

styles make fights brah

you cannot simply plug in richmond's numbers and CLAIM this is what he would average with the bulls, just like you cant do the same with jordan in sacramento with scrubs.

however, we do know chicago's success didn't start and end with jordan. new york was even BETTER in 1994 than in 1993 - and the bulls with the equivalent of a d-leaguer in place of jordan, were seconds away from eliminating them. you give them a superior sg, say richmond, who didn't need to be ball dominant, and they would have taken care of the knicks rather handily.

http://www.gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/hakeemBLOCKonjordan1-54bd292a24477.gif

http://www.gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/hakeemBLOCKonjordan2-54bd2ca270830.gif

http://www.gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/hakeemBLOCKonjordan3-54bd2da564e1f.gif

http://www.gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/hakeemBLOCKonjordan4-54bd2e0ec9d09.gif

^^ above is why hakeem had no biases against who he dominated. richmond would have posed a serious threat, though, because of his long-ball.

[Dro]

Remember that crazy buzzerbeater 3 he hit right after Reggie hit a "gamewinner" with 0.8 sec left and bowed to the Bulls crowd midcourt? :roll:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOMzdxynChs
One of my worst memories:(

[3ball]

styles make fights brah

you cannot simply plug in richmond's numbers and CLAIM this is what he would average with the bulls, just like you cant do the same with jordan in sacramento with scrubs.


we have enough empirical evidence (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10918583&postcount=165) of what is needed to successfully 3-peat as a SG in the triangle, and it's not the Ritchmond level (0.11 WS/48 in 1994)... it's not even the Kobe level (0.22 WS/48 career high) - it's only the Jordan level (0.28 WS/48 in 1996-1998).






and the bulls with the equivalent of a d-leaguer in place of jordan


why say something like this in a toni kukoc thread?

the #1 play (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NSpgbPcxoU) of Toni's career was his game-winner that saved Pippen and the Bulls from being beaten easily in that series.

of course, without Kukoc replacing Jordan, the Bulls would never have even won 55 or gotten a high seed, so they would have lost to NY or another top seed in the 1st round instead of the 2nd.





richmond would have posed a serious threat, though, because of his long-ball.
plus, Richmond can't dominate Hakeem (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7N_qSFAsP8), and scare him repeatedly (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10931187&postcount=85)... he's nowhere near that level.
.

[97 bulls]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NSpgbPcxoU

this is easily the #1 play of kukoc's career - it saved potty pippen and the Bulls from being beaten easily in that series.

of course, without Kukoc replacing Jordan, the Bulls would never have even won 55 or gotten a high seed, so they would have lost to NY or another top seed in the 1st round instead of the 2nd... :confusedshrug:
Why are you so enamored with pitting Jordan against his teammates?

[mehyaM24]

we have enough empirical evidence (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10918583&postcount=165) of what is needed to successfully 3-peat as a SG in the triangle, and it's not the Ritchmond level (0.11 WS/48 in 1994)... it's not even the Kobe level (0.22 WS/48 career high) - it's only the Jordan level (0.28 WS/48 in 1996-1998).

without a serviceable sg, the bulls were one bad call away from another finals appearance (they beat indiana with or without a replacement shooting guard). your numbers don't touch upon any of this, hence them being irrelevant ITT.

the bulls didn't need jordan's volume scoring to take chicago to the semis against a superior new york team - and almost beating them. adding richmond does nothing but make them better, because of his shooting and floor spacing. his defense was underrated too.

richmond's long-ball would have paid huge dividends and likely propelled the bulls to another title IMO.


why say something like this in a toni kukoc thread?

i'm talking about pete myers lol

[Hotlantadude81]

Someone was desperate enough to cover Final Countdown?

[Crystallas]

Doesn't even include my favorite Kukoc plays.

[3ball]

Why are you so enamored with pitting Jordan against his teammates?
it's only natural, since mj had by far the weakest supporting talent of any dynasty.

[97 bulls]

[/LIST]
it's only natural, since mj had by far the weakest supporting talent of any dynasty.
Then please explain why the other dynasties in spite of being more talented as you say, failed so miserably without their best player?

[Smoke117]

The interesting thing about 1994 is how similar the Bulls, Rockets, and Knicks were. Each team had one superstar who played with a bunch of role players and whose foundation was built on defense. (they were 14, 15, and 16 in offense funnily enough) If the 1994 Bulls had beat the Knicks I'm pretty positive they beat the Pacers. They matched up very well with them. I'm not sure what would have happened vs the Rockets except that it probably would have been ugly like the Knicks/Rockets series. It wouldn't have been easy for the Rockets...just like the other two, they didn't have the offense to make it easy.

[97 bulls]

And your reasoning for stating that the Bulls were weak outside of Jordan doesn't make sense.

Because Jordan scored a large percentage of their points? Well he took a large percentage of their shots.

I've asked you this before, and somehow, your answer always has to do with comparing his pts per 100 possessions to Lebron James.

How are the Bulls weak if they had, the best defender and most versatile player in Pippen, the best rebounder ever in Rodman, the best coach ever in Jacskon, the best assistant coach ever in Tex Winter, one of the best sixth men and European. Player in Kukoc. That team has four Hall of Famers outside of Jordan. Five when Kukoc gets in.

Youd be hardpressed to find a person that wouod say Kukoc wouldn't have been a multiple all-star had he went to another team.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I also agree that if you replaced Jordan with an ELITE 2-guard, the Bulls likely repeat, err 4-peat ...

Thing is, you're replacing Jordan with Kerr/Kukoc/Richmond, so it's not really a 1 for 1 deal as "shaqpopcorn" claims.

[97 bulls]

The interesting thing about 1994 is how similar the Bulls, Rockets, and Knicks were. Each team had one superstar who played with a bunch of role players and whose foundation was built on defense. (they were 14, 15, and 16 in offense funnily enough) If the 1994 Bulls had beat the Knicks I'm pretty positive they beat the Pacers. They matched up very well with them. I'm not sure what would have happened vs the Rockets except that it probably would have been ugly like the Knicks/Rockets series. It wouldn't have been easy for the Rockets...just like the other two, they didn't have the offense to make it easy.
And people seem to forget, the Knicks/Pacers and Rockets/Knicks series both went to seven. And had John Starks not have gone 3-17, they'd have beaten Houston. The Bulls were right there in the thick of things.

[97 bulls]

I also agree that if you replaced Jordan with an ELITE 2-guard, the Bulls likely repeat, err 4-peat ...

Thing is, you're replacing Jordan with Kerr/Kukoc/Richmond, so it's not really a 1 for 1 deal as "shaqpopcorn" claims.
Kerr was basically Paxsons replacement. Pax only played in a handful of games in 94. And Kukoc was a rookie.

[3ball]

Jordan scored a large percentage of their points? Well he took a large percentage of their shots.


Jordan gave his team more (35% usage) of a good thing (120 ORtg).

also, it's okay to shoot more when the player is doing it without hindering his teammates' production (compare Kukoc and Scottie's production with and without MJ - barely any change at all, not like how today's ball-dominators crater their teammates' stats).





best defender and most versatile player in Pippen


Jordan was the player that set the record for most consecutive 1st Team All Defense selections and won DPOY, not Scottie - Jordan's defense is simply overlooked by fans understandably enamored with his GOAT offense.

Also, Jordan assisted on a much higher percentage of Bulls possessions than Scottie - Jordan led the Bulls in assist percentage in the regular season (24.9% to 23.5%) and crushed Pip in the playoffs (28.2% to 21.3%).





Rodman best rebounder


Indeed, the Bulls had Rodman who was a zero offensively and forced the Bulls to play 4 on 5 on offense at all times... Yet due to Jordan being GOAT, the Bulls still registered the highest team ORtg's ever in 1996 and 1997 (115 and 116), despite going 4 on 5 offensively.

Also, Rodman didn't always come up big - he only averaged 3 PPG and 7 RPG the entire 1997 playoffs, and only 3 PPG and 8 RPG in the 1998 Finals.





Youd be hardpressed to find a person that wouod say Kukoc wouldn't have been a multiple all-star had he went to another team.


except Kukoc wasn't shit after MJ left in 1998.. Kukoc had his career high PPG in 1999, but nowhere near all-star.. not even sure he was on the ballot - back then they didn't put everyone on there.

[Euroleague]

People need to start using his real name already. It's been 20 damn years. It's been more than enough time now to start using his real name.

"Toni Kukoc", the made up name, should be retired already. In fact, we should make a thread about it, since obviously not a single NBA only fan even knows about it.

[Droid101]

All his 90's Bulls research, and he can only come up with Kukoc plays and no Jordan Flops.

:applause:

[mehyaM24]

Kerr was basically Paxsons replacement. Pax only played in a handful of games in 94. And Kukoc was a rookie.
excellent points..

i would like to also say that adding richmond to the team would give you a lot of this:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TqCNlgpADmE/TiUGhalBXTI/AAAAAAAAAHw/d208caF-r3I/s1600/Mitch.jpg


with jordan, you get some of this:
http://optimoradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/hakeem-olajuwon-blocks-michael-jordan-300x300.png

IMO - richmond would have been a better fit against houston because of his spacing. the fact he didn't need the ball in hand (over dribbling) would have made the bulls almost impossible to beat. hakeem's defense, which was GOAT worthy, would've been completely negligible with all the shooting outside of the paint.

[DatAsh]

And your reasoning for stating that the Bulls were weak outside of Jordan doesn't make sense.

Because Jordan scored a large percentage of their points? Well he took a large percentage of their shots.

I've asked you this before, and somehow, your answer always has to do with comparing his pts per 100 possessions to Lebron James.

How are the Bulls weak if they had, the best defender and most versatile player in Pippen, the best rebounder ever in Rodman, the best coach ever in Jacskon, the best assistant coach ever in Tex Winter, one of the best sixth men and European. Player in Kukoc. That team has four Hall of Famers outside of Jordan. Five when Kukoc gets in.

Youd be hardpressed to find a person that wouod say Kukoc wouldn't have been a multiple all-star had he went to another team.

Good post.

[3ball]

best defender and most versatile player in Pippen


Jordan was the player that set the record for most consecutive 1st Team All Defense selections and won DPOY, not Scottie - Jordan's defense is simply overlooked by fans understandably enamored with his GOAT offense.

Also, Jordan assisted on a much higher percentage of Bulls possessions than Scottie - Jordan led the Bulls in assist percentage in the regular season (24.9% to 23.5%) and crushed Pip in the playoffs even more (28.2% to 21.3%).





Rodman best rebounder

Youd be hardpressed to find a person that wouod say Kukoc wouldn't have been a multiple all-star had he went to another team.


Indeed, the Bulls had Rodman who was a zero offensively and forced the Bulls to play 4 on 5 on offense at all times... Yet due to Jordan being GOAT, the Bulls still registered the highest team ORtg's ever in 1996 and 1997 (115 and 116), despite going 4 on 5 offensively.

Also, Rodman frequently shrank in the playoffs - he only averaged 3 PPG and 7 RPG the entire 1997 playoffs, and only 3 PPG and 8 RPG in the 1998 Finals.

Also, Kukoc wasn't shit after MJ left in 1998.. Kukoc had his career high PPG in 1999, but nowhere near all-star.. not even sure he was on the ballot - back then they didn't put everyone on there.

[97 bulls]

which is okay when the player is doing it without hindering his teammates' production (compare Kukoc and Scottie's production with and without MJ - barely any change at all, not like how today's ball-dominators crater their teammates' stats).

it's also okay for Jordan to shoot that much when his offensive rating was 120 as a Bull, which destroys other guys whose usage is actually materially less (kobe, lebron, whoever)..

Jordan gave his team more (usage) of a good thing (ORtg).
I never said there was a problem with his shooting so much. My point was that he had plenty if help. Actually, Pippens pts did improve. FGAs and scoring declined from 93 to 94, but Pippens improved. Kukoc did avg 19 ppg in 99. The highest of his career. After that, he was old and washed up. Not to mentine he joined the Sixers and Allen Iverson.

Check your stats bro.




Jordan was the player that set the record for most consecutive 1st Team All Defense selections and won DPOY, not Scottie - Jordan's defense is simply overlooked by fans understandably enamored with his GOAT offense.
Jordan is one of the greatest defenders ever. But he's not better than Pippen. Kobe has more all defense teams than Jordan, is he a better defender? Pippen turned in the best defensive season by a perimeter player EVER in 95. His not winning the DPOY award was a travesty. The Bulls finished second in defensive rating, top 5 in opp ppg, Pippen recieved most votes for all nba defense first team, led the league in steals, and led the league in defensive rating. And mind you, these were the Bulls other starters that year. Armstrong, Kukoc, Longley/Perdue, and Ron Harper who played sparingly.


Also, Jordan assisted on a much higher percentage of Bulls possessions than Scottie - Jordan led the Bulls in assist percentage in the regular season (24.9% to 23.5%) and crushed Pip in the playoffs (28.2% to 21.3%).
Thats because he dominated the ball so much. Pippen was the Bulls defensive anchor and ran the Bulls offense.




Indeed, the Bulls had Rodman who was a zero offensively and forced the Bulls to play 4 on 5 on offense at all times... Yet due to Jordan being GOAT, the Bulls still registered the highest team ORtg's ever in 1996 and 1997 (115 and 116), despite going 4 on 5 offensively.
Youd be the only person that feels Rodman was useless on offense. What about the record setting offensive rebounding games Rodman had in 96? He sure got George Karls attention.


Also, Rodman didn't always come up big - he only averaged 3 PPG and 7 RPG the entire 1997 playoffs, and only 3 PPG and 8 RPG in the 1998 Finals.
Lol. Its obvious you didnt watch the games. He flustered Malone, Mourning, and Shaq. Not to mention he played hurt in 97 and 98 playoffs.



except Kukoc wasn't shit after MJ left in 1998.. Kukoc had his career high PPG in 1999, but nowhere near all-star.. not even sure he was on the ballot - back then they didn't put everyone on there.
Lol. Kukoc was an old man by 00. And battled alot of injuries. Theres no doubt that under different circumstances, Kukoc makes a few allstar games.

Its clear that you have no.clue as to what your talking about past statistics that are skewed.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I never said there was a problem with his shooting so much. My point was that he had plenty if help. Actually, Pippens pts did improve. FGAs and scoring declined from 93 to 94, but Pippens improved. Kukoc did avg 19 ppg in 99. The highest of his career. After that, he was old and washed up. Not to mentine he joined the Sixers and Allen Iverson.

Check your stats bro.




Jordan is one of the greatest defenders ever. But he's not better than Pippen. Kobe has more all defense teams than Jordan, is he a better defender? Pippen turned in the best defensive season by a perimeter player EVER in 95. His not winning the DPOY award was a travesty. The Bulls finished second in defensive rating, top 5 in opp ppg, Pippen recieved most votes for all nba defense first team, led the league in steals, and led the league in defensive rating. And mind you, these were the Bulls other starters that year. Armstrong, Kukoc, Longley/Perdue, and Ron Harper who played sparingly.


Thats because he dominated the ball so much. Pippen was the Bulls defensive anchor and ran the Bulls offense.




Youd be the only person that feels Rodman was useless on offense. What about the record setting offensive rebounding games Rodman had in 96? He sure got George Karls attention.


Lol. Its obvious you didnt watch the games. He flustered Malone, Mourning, and Shaq. Not to mention he played hurt in 97 and 98 playoffs.



Lol. Kukoc was an old man by 00. And battled alot of injuries. Theres no doubt that under different circumstances, Kukoc makes a few allstar games.

Its clear that you have no.clue as to what your talking about past statistics that are skewed.

@ 97bulls ... Do you believe the Bulls would win another title w/ either Reggie Miller or Richmond? Seems like a few posters are adamant with thinking so, but I always say nothing is for certain.

[3ball]

http://optimoradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/hakeem-olajuwon-blocks-michael-jordan-300x300.png



you used up the only 4 video clips of hakeem blocking MJ, so now you have to go to photos?... :roll:





with jordan, you get some of this:



Here's MJ finishing on Hakeem 10 times in one game, and it wasn't one of his big scoring games, only 34 points - Jordan has many 40+ point games on Hakeem as well.

But that's how the game plays with no spacing and a paint-camper waiting at the rim every time - star players are FORCED to compete head-to-head much more often, as opposed to today's spacing, which allows you to avoid confrontation much easier (open shots):


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/a5fdb3ed0c9786fdb9f114ae2d2bfe0d.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/eaee91ff8042e72b7d97e1ab8e139021.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/b64923de29630157895f9c3f9dc2e1bd.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/f0321d4f4db9da0064fd256d7dee53dc.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/64c95c2c17bcf73f6c5825e3fc570700.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/cef4c95d38340ea34d784c7d70124cb8.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/94f87fdc82edd2ed76f57bd0cf564aec.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/aa05984402a8fbbeb89a4162609cd60d.gif

[97 bulls]

@ 97bulls ... Do you believe the Bulls would win another title w/ either Reggie Miller or Richmond? Seems like a few posters are adamant with thinking so, but I always say nothing is for certain.
Yes. And that doesn't mean that I feel Miller or Richmond were as good as Jordan. Just that its obvious the bulls were a 55 win team with MJ.

[AirFederer]

1991 dunk contest (pre NBA). Kukoc dunks twice from the foul line. 00:45

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSVS0rC30ds

Legend, could do it all :bowdown:

[3ball]

My point was that he had plenty if help.


So why did MJ have to score more per game than any player ever has?

MJ had by far the least supporting talent of any dynasty - We can put Jordan's supporting talent next to Bird, Magic, or any dynasty, and it's not remotely close - Jordan simply had the least supporting talent.





Kukoc did avg 19 ppg in 99. The highest of his career. After that, he was old and washed up.


kukocs averaged 19 ppg in 1999 because BOTH Jordan and Scottie left - but you knew this and were being disingenuous... when it was ONLY jordan that came back in 1995, kukoc numbers barely changed, ditto for Pippen.

you can't compare the tiny change in kukoc and pippen's numbers to the massive drop-off that wade, love and bosh had - do you want to put them side-by-side to see how much bigger the difference is?





Jordan is one of the greatest defenders ever. But he's not better than Pippen.


Jordan's defense is simply overlooked by fans that are understandably enamored with his GOAT offense.. In his prime, he was the best perimeter defender of all time, way better than Scottie.





Pippen turned in the best defensive season by a perimeter player EVER in 95.


not true at all - that's just your conjecture...

and by the late 90's, Pippen's defense had dropped off a super-ton - look how bad he is trying to guard Kobe in the 98' - what a joke.... i've never seen someone get destroyed so badly and embarasingly.

even MJ's like "i don't know that guy (pippen)":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsq-gqFyebQ&t=0m21s





Rodman flustered Malone, Mourning, and Shaq. Not to mention he played hurt in 97 and 98 playoffs.


Rodman averaged 3 PPG and 7 rebounds the ENTIRE 1997 playoffs and 3 PPG and 8 rebounds in the 1998 Finals...

that's horrible, and forced Jordan to carry an even bigger load than the GOAT load he was already carrying.





Lol. Kukoc was an old man by 00. And battled alot of injuries. Theres no doubt that under different circumstances, Kukoc makes a few allstar games.


Kukoc played without Jordan in 1994 and 1995, and he was just a role player.... then Kukoc got his career high 19 PPG in 1999 after BOTH Scottie and Jordan - but even then Kukoc was not an all-star player.

[97 bulls]

So why did MJ have to score more per game than any player ever has?
You asked me this question before. My answer is that that was just the type ofbplayer Jordan was. Why did he take twice as many shots as anyone else on the dreamteam? Why was he taking more shots than Jerry Stackhouse as a 39 year old man?


MJ had by far the least supporting talent of any dynasty - We can put Jordan's supporting talent next to Bird, Magic, or any dynasty, and it's not remotely close - Jordan simply had the least supporting talent.

Ok. But you still wont answer why the Bulls were so much more successful than all the other dynasties without having their best players.


Kukocs averaged 19 ppg in 1999 because BOTH Jordan and Scottie left - but you knew this and were being disingenuous... when it was ONLY jordan that came back in 1995, kukoc numbers barely changed, ditto for Pippen.
What?

you can't compare the tiny change in kukoc and pippen's numbers to the massive drop-off that wade, love and bosh had - do you want to put them side-by-side to see how much bigger the difference is?

Its about imoact on the court. Something you cant seem to wrap your simole head around. Kukoc, Pip, and Rodman were winner


Jordan's defense is simply overlooked by fans that are understandably enamored with his GOAT offense.. In his prime, he was the best perimeter defender of all time, way better than Scottie.



not true at all - that's just your conjecture...

and by the late 90's, Pippen's defense had dropped off a super-ton - look how bad he is trying to guard Kobe in the 98' - what a joke.... i've never seen someone get destroyed so badly and embarasingly.

even MJ's like "i don't know that guy (pippen)":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsq-gqFyebQ&t=0m21s



Rodman averaged 3 PPG and 7 rebounds the ENTIRE 1997 playoffs and 3 PPG and 8 rebounds in the 1998 Finals...

that's horrible, and forced Jordan to carry an even bigger load than the GOAT load he was already carrying.



Kukoc played without Jordan in 1994 and 1995, and he was just a role player.... then Kukoc got his career high 19 PPG in 1999 after BOTH Scottie and Jordan - but even then Kukoc was not an all-star player.[/QUOTE]

[Smoke117]

So why did MJ have to score more per game than any player ever has?

MJ had by far the least supporting talent of any dynasty - We can put Jordan's supporting talent next to Bird, Magic, or any dynasty, and it's not remotely close - Jordan simply had the least supporting talent.



kukocs averaged 19 ppg in 1999 because BOTH Jordan and Scottie left - but you knew this and were being disingenuous... when it was ONLY jordan that came back in 1995, kukoc numbers barely changed, ditto for Pippen.

you can't compare the tiny change in kukoc and pippen's numbers to the massive drop-off that wade, love and bosh had - do you want to put them side-by-side to see how much bigger the difference is?



Jordan's defense is simply overlooked by fans that are understandably enamored with his GOAT offense.. In his prime, he was the best perimeter defender of all time, way better than Scottie.



not true at all - that's just your conjecture...

and by the late 90's, Pippen's defense had dropped off a super-ton - look how bad he is trying to guard Kobe in the 98' - what a joke.... i've never seen someone get destroyed so badly and embarasingly.

even MJ's like "i don't know that guy (pippen)":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsq-gqFyebQ&t=0m21s



Rodman averaged 3 PPG and 7 rebounds the ENTIRE 1997 playoffs and 3 PPG and 8 rebounds in the 1998 Finals...

that's horrible, and forced Jordan to carry an even bigger load than the GOAT load he was already carrying.



Kukoc played without Jordan in 1994 and 1995, and he was just a role player.... then Kukoc got his career high 19 PPG in 1999 after BOTH Scottie and Jordan - but even then Kukoc was not an all-star player.

http://media.giphy.com/media/PrAMyghZaYjm/giphy.gif

The more you post the clearer it becomes how ****ing stupid you really are. It's hilarious...keep it up.