a few small 1954 and 55 ASG clips just uploaded by the NBA

[CavaliersFTW]

:applause: more footage of Bob Cousy, Bob Pettit, and even some clips of George Mikan from what would be his final NBA season (creating an iso scoring play off the dribble from triple threat to shoot a running hook :eek: )

1954 - George Mikan, number 99, keep your eye on him final season but he still looks like a load on both ends bullying his way inside a couple plays and showing great skill and coordination scoring from triple threat despite at that time being 280lbs which is a very big body on the floor even by today's standards.. blocks 7 footer Ray Felix in the paint with ease. At 1:00 minute mark check out Jim Pollard number 17 push the ball full court than off a Euro-step fake shoot a Rick Barry-esq hang-time underhand scoop :eek:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrSvm7vx8uk

1955 - rookie Bob Pettit is wearing number 8 this game already using his newly developing jump shot and the quality is good enough and the frame rate slow enough that you can see his subtle head fakes he made before his shots. The stuff low quality footage normally can't show you. You'll notice Bob Cousy again... this time he delivers a silky smooth left handed hook in traffic. Dolph Schayes shoots a left handed shot in the pivot at 1:48 to get the ball away from the 2 defenders collapsing on his right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj8q6c0zGhw#t=12

I dunno about you guys but I love this stuff, it's basketball but it's like just different enough that it makes you want to figure out why players chose to move the way the moved... what rules, what fundamentals were drilled into these guys heads, who's the opposition how did they play. Too bad more film doesn't exist of that generation. I've recently begun to figure out the fundamentals behind the varieties of shooting methods that existed at that time. Players didn't shoot two-hand set shots, nor push shots, nor jump shots all the time, those were all fundamentally sound shots only under certain scenarios. Good back court players back then were taught to use the entire variety, and know when to use them and why.

[navy]

Mikan > Wilt and Russell

[sundizz]

Wow, Cavs with an actual good post.

Those were great videos. It actually surprised me/didn't surprise me how good those players looked at hoopin and their skills.

It confirms my belief that the people that played basketball back then were excellent at actually playing basketball. They had mad skills. Basketball is the sort of game that it doesn't matter necessarily what your shot looks like etc. With enough practice dribbling, shooting, and passing become second nature (and clearly anyone in the NBA at that time had done it for 10+ years).

More importantly, it confirms that the skill level of NBA player may not be drastically different. The main difference is simply the athletic ability of the overall league. Athleticism >>>> skills. There seemed to be very few 6'8+ black guys with elite coordination etc back in the 50's and 60's. Not saying they didn't exist (we don't evolve that fast), it is just that they weren't exposed/nor given the chance/etc to play hoops.

[CavaliersFTW]

Wow, Cavs with an actual good post.

Those were great videos. It actually surprised me/didn't surprise me how good those players looked at hoopin and their skills.

It confirms my belief that the people that played basketball back then were excellent at actually playing basketball. They had mad skills. Basketball is the sort of game that it doesn't matter necessarily what your shot looks like etc. With enough practice dribbling, shooting, and passing become second nature (and clearly anyone in the NBA at that time had done it for 10+ years).

More importantly, it confirms that the skill level of NBA player may not be drastically different. The main difference is simply the athletic ability of the overall league. Athleticism >>>> skills. There seemed to be very few 6'8+ black guys with elite coordination etc back in the 50's and 60's. Not saying they didn't exist (we don't evolve that fast), it is just that they weren't exposed/nor given the chance/etc to play hoops.
To be fair 1954 and 1955 = / = the "sixties" NBA

The 60's was a mostly black league... look at the 1968 all star game the NBA also just uploaded: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE6SSFfqsZQ

The entire '68 all star game looks like "6-8+ athletic black guys" that you just tried to suggest didn't exist back then. Can't lump the racial composition of the 50's with the 60's. The league's best players getting the most minutes and the highest paid checks went from white to black almost overnight from 1958 to 1962 and the rest of the league by what, 1965?, was majority black.

[Moonbeam]

Awesome to see this footage. Thank you!

[Psileas]

Dem NBA scumbags accelerating the film to make the game look good...

[RoundMoundOfReb]

ball handling is so freaking bad.

[Quickening]

See better ball handling at my local park

[Asukal]

Dat sakuragi free throw.... :roll:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Does anybody seriously believe these guards, if brought here in a time machine, could play in today's league? I laugh at the idea of one of those guards even bringing the ball up against say...russell westbrook or pat beverly..lmao

[SHAQisGOAT]

Does anybody seriously believe these guards, if brought here in a time machine, could play in today's league? I laugh at the idea of one of those guards even bringing the ball up against say...russell westbrook or pat beverly..lmao

Those guys? No...

These guys (as cavsftw just posted): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE6SSFfqsZQ
?
Yes, definitely.

With that said, the whole "time machine thing" is simply ignorant... Can't be discussed like that.

[sundizz]

To be fair 1954 and 1955 = / = the "sixties" NBA

The 60's was a mostly black league... look at the 1968 all star game the NBA also just uploaded: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE6SSFfqsZQ

The entire '68 all star game looks like "6-8+ athletic black guys" that you just tried to suggest didn't exist back then. Can't lump the racial composition of the 50's with the 60's. The league's best players getting the most minutes and the highest paid checks went from white to black almost overnight from 1958 to 1962 and the rest of the league by what, 1965?, was majority black.

:facepalm learn to read. I didn't suggest they didn't exist. I actually I clearly said that they did exist. I just said that it is unlikely that the best of the best (in terms of athletes) were making it to the NBA. This is due to a combination of racial issues, economic issues, scouting, etc.

I don't know how many times I need to say this...the top 5% of the league back then would do just fine in any era. It's the other 95% that is much worse than today's league. Superstars can easily transcend eras. Scrub mcdub regular players can't by any sort of simple logic.

Wilt type players defies the odds of statistics, they are complete anomalies.

Talent Pool Group A (90's - 00's):
190 million 12 year old kids worldwide nowadays (my guess) who play basketball..

Talent Pool Group B (40's - 50's):
20 million 12 year old kids worldwide who play basketball worldwide (even though the real, available pool is less because of the lack of visibility back then in terms of scouting foreign country players).

Of course if there is some freak 12 year old that is 6'9, athletic, is coordinated, happens to live in the US, loves basketball he would be make it in either situation.

If you chose 500 total from the combined talent pools, this is how it'd end up:
10 superstars from Pool A
10 superstars from Pool B
480 rotational level players from Pool A

[swagga]

uncovered article from the 50s:

" Mikan dominated the all star game last night with 21pts, 14 rbs and 2ast. He even blocked the ball once, in flight!, a feat so new and dazzling that the heart of a court side fan literally stopped beating from the sheer amazement. After the game ended, mikan consciously washed the floor, doubling his payment for the night. The next morning we followed the greatest basketball player of all time to his day job, where he keeps America healthy by bringing fresh milk to hungry women and children. Mikan works in style, speeding in his custom high-performance vehicle, with 20' custom rims, powered by a well fed stallion with a total of 1HP.

https://thatwoman.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/d-horse-milkcart-1950.jpg

Add at a later date: a small machine producing company in italy, called ferrari, has contacted us saying that the attached picture showed them what true performance and style are and that they would gladly create a logo based on it. Mikan's inspiration is transcontinental!"

GOAT :applause:

[Dr.J4ever]

:applause: more footage of Bob Cousy, Bob Pettit, and even some clips of George Mikan from what would be his final NBA season (creating an iso scoring play off the dribble from triple threat to shoot a running hook :eek: )

1954 - George Mikan, number 99, keep your eye on him final season but he still looks like a load on both ends bullying his way inside a couple plays and showing great skill and coordination scoring from triple threat despite at that time being 280lbs which is a very big body on the floor even by today's standards.. blocks 7 footer Ray Felix in the paint with ease. At 1:00 minute mark check out Jim Pollard number 17 push the ball full court than off a Euro-step fake shoot a Rick Barry-esq hang-time underhand scoop :eek:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrSvm7vx8uk

1955 - rookie Bob Pettit is wearing number 8 this game already using his newly developing jump shot and the quality is good enough and the frame rate slow enough that you can see his subtle head fakes he made before his shots. The stuff low quality footage normally can't show you. You'll notice Bob Cousy again... this time he delivers a silky smooth left handed hook in traffic. Dolph Schayes shoots a left handed shot in the pivot at 1:48 to get the ball away from the 2 defenders collapsing on his right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj8q6c0zGhw#t=12

I dunno about you guys but I love this stuff, it's basketball but it's like just different enough that it makes you want to figure out why players chose to move the way the moved... what rules, what fundamentals were drilled into these guys heads, who's the opposition how did they play. Too bad more film doesn't exist of that generation. I've recently begun to figure out the fundamentals behind the varieties of shooting methods that existed at that time. Players didn't shoot two-hand set shots, nor push shots, nor jump shots all the time, those were all fundamentally sound shots only under certain scenarios. Good back court players back then were taught to use the entire variety, and know when to use them and why.

Good stuff.:applause:

I'm in my 40s myself, and my father taught me how to play basketball. Now I see someone on the video that shot a 2 handed set shot, and I figure this is where my father got that idea for me.

As a young boy, I couldn't quite get the ball over the rim with a one handed shot, so he encouraged me to shoot with two hands, since he said that there were NBA players he saw that shot it with two hands(probably guys from the 50s like in this video). It turned out that I developed a pretty accurate 2 handed set shot, and I used it frequently in pick up games during the 80s.

I was a streak shooter. You know, when I was on, I was really on, but I could also go on cold spells. That two handed shot, I think, had something to do with it.:oldlol:

My father was sickly and died when I was young so he never quite "corrected" me to shoot in a conventional manner. Just a little nostalgia on my part as I watch your videos.

[jongib369]

Great post, I've watched hours of footage from this era and in the 40s. Along with various clips from times before....It's just interesting seeing very different skills be played out. Because of the dribbling rules and temperament towards flash it can look silly at times....But then you watch footage of WOMENS highschool basketball in the 40s and they all have gorgeous hookshots. Not just the release, its the footwork also... Mikan really surprised me back when I lazily made a highlight of him and he busted those out.

[jongib369]

http://youtu.be/tAuQLyeB9mM

Best highlight ever :banana:

[Dr.J4ever]

http://youtu.be/tAuQLyeB9mM

Best highlight ever :banana:

Stray Cats and those hooks:applause: :lol

[swagga]

http://youtu.be/tAuQLyeB9mM

Best highlight ever :banana:

not a single black man seen in a 500 mile radius :roll:
just a bunch of white boys throwing bricks while listening to country music. :facepalm

[mehyaM24]

not a single black man seen in a 500 mile radius :roll:
just a bunch of white boys throwing bricks while listening to country music. :facepalm
:facepalm

[CavaliersFTW]

:facepalm learn to read. I didn't suggest they didn't exist. I actually I clearly said that they did exist. I just said that it is unlikely that the best of the best (in terms of athletes) were making it to the NBA. This is due to a combination of racial issues, economic issues, scouting, etc.

I don't know how many times I need to say this...the top 5% of the league back then would do just fine in any era. It's the other 95% that is much worse than today's league. Superstars can easily transcend eras. Scrub mcdub regular players can't by any sort of simple logic.

Wilt type players defies the odds of statistics, they are complete anomalies.

Talent Pool Group A (90's - 00's):
190 million 12 year old kids worldwide nowadays (my guess) who play basketball..

Talent Pool Group B (40's - 50's):
20 million 12 year old kids worldwide who play basketball worldwide (even though the real, available pool is less because of the lack of visibility back then in terms of scouting foreign country players).

Of course if there is some freak 12 year old that is 6'9, athletic, is coordinated, happens to live in the US, loves basketball he would be make it in either situation.

If you chose 500 total from the combined talent pools, this is how it'd end up:
10 superstars from Pool A
10 superstars from Pool B
480 rotational level players from Pool A
The best of the best were making it to the NBA in the 60's... they had integrated, and by the late 50's they were already sweeping up the best black players. That's how professional sports work. The cream rises to the top. Those competitive franchises wanted to field the best guys on the floor. The racial stigmas of the 40's and early to mid 50's was destined not to last in a competitive environment, and it didn't last. So rest assured the very best guys in the world were in the NBA by the 1960's. By that time your best argument would be maybe the NBA missed a small handful of players behind the Iron curtain. But there were no Wilt Chamberlains or Oscar Robertson in the soviet union at that time that's for sure, might have had a couple guys that could round out an NBA bench that's about it.

[swagga]

:facepalm

don't you facepalm me son, they used to lynch people back then, once brothers got into the game it was over.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

:facepalm learn to read. I didn't suggest they didn't exist. I actually I clearly said that they did exist. I just said that it is unlikely that the best of the best (in terms of athletes) were making it to the NBA. This is due to a combination of racial issues, economic issues, scouting, etc.

I don't know how many times I need to say this...the top 5% of the league back then would do just fine in any era. It's the other 95% that is much worse than today's league. Superstars can easily transcend eras. Scrub mcdub regular players can't by any sort of simple logic.

Wilt type players defies the odds of statistics, they are complete anomalies.

Talent Pool Group A (90's - 00's):
190 million 12 year old kids worldwide nowadays (my guess) who play basketball..

Talent Pool Group B (40's - 50's):
20 million 12 year old kids worldwide who play basketball worldwide (even though the real, available pool is less because of the lack of visibility back then in terms of scouting foreign country players).

Of course if there is some freak 12 year old that is 6'9, athletic, is coordinated, happens to live in the US, loves basketball he would be make it in either situation.

If you chose 500 total from the combined talent pools, this is how it'd end up:
10 superstars from Pool A
10 superstars from Pool B
480 rotational level players from Pool A

sensational post :applause:

[CavaliersFTW]

sensational post :applause:
it was drivel actually

[jongib369]

Some truths to it, but numbers like "only 5%" are ludicrous and pulled from his ass imo lol

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Some truths to it, but numbers like "only 5%" are ludicrous and pulled from his ass imo lol
Agreed. I think most big men would translate - Guards would not.

[CavaliersFTW]

Some truths to it, but numbers like "only 5%" are ludicrous and pulled from his ass imo lol
He's speaking assumptions so there's a slight difference.

I mean based on his logic he honestly thinks someone like Dave Bing wouldn't find a spot on a roster today, let alone be an all-star? To say 95% of the league in the 60's wouldn't make it today is laughable. A Wayne Embry would be/is a valuable type of piece to a team today let alone a Walt Bellamy. A lot of guys from the 60's are legit NBA talent, not a little, a lot. I'd say the overwhelming majority. Their skills reflect the game of their time, but their abilities/talents the way I see it are elite. All highly coordinated hard working giant athletes with long arms and big hands, they're professional basketball players. Sundizz can drivel all he wants about some formula in his head so as to try and diminish them but the fact is all the players he sees in 60's footage are faceless and nameless so it's really easy for him to assume they're just a bunch of nobody's.

[CavaliersFTW]

Agreed. I think most big men would translate - Guards would not.
So Oscar, West, Wilkins, Rodgers these guys could not translate today? :oldlol: I don't get why not?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

So Oscar, West, Wilkins, Rodgers these guys could not translate today? :oldlol: I don't get why not?
Most guards would not - not every guard would not. I think that someone like Cousy absolutely would not.

[CavaliersFTW]

Most guards would not - not every guard would not. I think that someone like Cousy absolutely would not.
He's a 50's era guard, not a 60's era guard.


Either way though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-xa6546ixc

really? Name a player not named magic johnson in the entire history of the game who conducted fast breaks like that.

That's what all-time talent looks like. He can't be pigeonholed as a one era type of player.

[LAZERUSS]

The best of the best were making it to the NBA in the 60's... they had integrated, and by the late 50's they were already sweeping up the best black players. That's how professional sports work. The cream rises to the top. Those competitive franchises wanted to field the best guys on the floor. The racial stigmas of the 40's and early to mid 50's was destined not to last in a competitive environment, and it didn't last. So rest assured the very best guys in the world were in the NBA by the 1960's. By that time your best argument would be maybe the NBA missed a small handful of players behind the Iron curtain. But there were no Wilt Chamberlains or Oscar Robertson in the soviet union at that time that's for sure, might have had a couple guys that could round out an NBA bench that's about it.

This.

Those who claim that the "population explosion" and "world-wide" game need to explain why we haven't had a single Shaq since he retired. Or MJ. Or D-Rob. Or Hakeem. Or Bird. Or Magic. Or Moses. Or Walton. Or Kareem. Or Wilt. Not one. Not even close.

Or the fact that a 38 year old Duncan is still among the best players in the league. Hell, I would take him over a prime Marc Gasol in a heartbeat.

Or the fact this population boom has not brought us seven-foot "Magic's." Nope...all we have are a slew of 6-9 centers who can't shoot from three-plus feet. A few years ago a 6-8 Kevin Love ran away with the rebounding title. A few years before him, a 6-7 Ben Wallace (who could't shoot from point-blank range) not only was running away with rebounding titles, he was also winning multiple DPOY's.

For those idiots who laugh at footage of Bob Cousy...how about the worst shooter in NBA history playing in TODAY's NBA? I give you Ricky Rubio...who wouldn't have sniffed a top college roster in the 60's and 70's. Oh, and while Cousy won one MVP...how about a 6-3 Steve Nash winning TWO in the 00's? Hell, a 37 year old Nash, playing 33 mpg, led the league assists.

How do the bashers of the 60's explain the fact that the NBA shot FTs better in 1959, than the CURRENT NBA? With all of this modern training and technology...and players TODAY are FAR worse at shooting FT's than those in the 70's (the '74 NBA shot .771...today's NBA is at .754.)

Furthermore, in the "weak" 60's and 70's, there were quite a plethora of LEGIT 7-0+ players, many of whom were successful in college...that were ordinary to mediocre in the NBA. Steve Turner was a full 7-4. Swede Halbrook was a full 7-3. Tommy Burleson (who battled Walton to a draw in their two H2H's in college) was a full 7-2.

And of course, thanks to the research of CavsFTW, we now know that the LISTED heights of players since the 80's has been a joke. "7-0" Hakeem...barely 6-10. "7-4" Ralph Sampson...shorter than 7-2 Kareem. Today's NBA is littered with 6-11 to 7-0+ players who are barely 6-9 and 6-10. Cousins, Whiteside, Howard, Jordan, and Drummond...NONE even 6-10. Hell, the "7-1" Spencer Hawes is ACTUALLY a little over 6-10.

Meanwhile, in the 60's and 70's...many players were actually TALLER than their listed heights. For his entire college career Elvin Hayes was listed at 6-8. Turns out he was just as tall as the "6-11" Dwight Howard. Russell was listed at 6-9 his entire NBA career...same actual height as the "6-11" Hassan Whiteside. Wilt was listed at 7-1, but was certainly taller. Bill Walton was listed at 6-11, and there are accounts as high as 7-2.

Continued...

[LAZERUSS]

Continuing...

And again, for those that argue that today's NBA is much more athletic...how do explain Kevin Love, Steve Nash, and Andrew Bogut? And on the flip side, James White was a complete bust. Same with a 7-4 350+ lb. Priest Lauderdale. Basketball is NOT a game of pure athleticism as evidenced by a 6-8 Rodman winning seven rebounding titles. In fact, take Chamberlain out of the equation, and 6-10 and shorter players have dominated the rebounding titles. Some who couldn't jump...like Moses Malone.

Sure there are more players and potential players in the NBA today than 40-50 years ago. Trouble is...even in the 60's and 70's the talent level was FAR more than the number of teams. There were star players in college who were ordinary, or even busts in the NBA. And I would argue that the college game was FAR superior in the 60's and 70's as to what the CURRENT college system is. Back in the 60's and 70's...players like Hayes, Maravich, and Kareem would have been starting in the NBA after a single season of college ball (or right out of high school as Moses would do a few years later.) Instead, they were locked into four years, and the UCLA Dynasty had NBA lineups. Even MJ's college teams, which allowed players to jump to the NBA sooner, were packed with quality NBA players like Worthy, Perkins, and Daughtery, and yet, they could barely squeeze out one NCAA title. In any case, those UCLA and Carolina teams would have SHELLED this year's Kentucky team. Massive blowouts.

CavsFTW said it best...from the late 50's on...the BEST players in the world, were playing in the NBA. Yes, there were a FEW exceptions...Connie Hawkins for many years (but it was NOT race that kept him out), Raymond Lewis (combination of factors), and likely a FEW others.

And again, aside from a HANDFUL of great Euros (and other non-USA players), how many truly GREAT players has the rest of the world turned out in the last 50 years? And even if you include Duncan, Hakeem and Ewing, all of whom developed their games in the US, the list is NOT long.

Furthermore, the REALITY is, go ahead and subtract the vast majority of Euros that are playing in the NBA right now, and you could easily replace them with the best college players in the US. The Mozgovs, Rubios, and the many other non-US players are average at best, and would have been average, at best, in the 60's and 70's.

The REALITY was, that there were MANY truly exceptional basketball players in the 60's and 70's who were simply not good enough to make NBA rosters. Plain-and-simple. And today there are just more of them. The "bottom-feeders" in the 60's and 70's...those players buried at the end of the bench...were college super-stars. They were NOT "janitors" and "garbage men."

I have mentioned it before, but the 6-6 230 lb. Gus Johnson was an athletic freak. His vertical was the equal of MJ's. And just watch the youtube footage of him that exists. He was a SKILLED shooter to 15+ feet. If the 60's were so "weak" how come he was "only" a career 17-12 player? Why wasn't he putting up "Baylor-like" seasons?

I'm sure the vast majority here have no idea who the 6-9 Sidney Wicks was (BTW, he was listed at 6-8 in college.) He did have a solid NBA career, but his claim to fame was completely destroying the 7-2 Artis Gilmore in their NCAA Finals matchup. Blocked FIVE of Gilmore's shots, and outrebounded Artis (the career college rpg king BTW.)

Watch footage of Pistol Pete. He would make a fool out of Rubio in every facet of the game. And yet...virtually no one rated him above West or Oscar at the time. How come? How come a legit 6-5 PG that would dazzle the current NBA, wasn't even considered among the elite guards of his own era? Oh, and BTW,...can you imagine what Maravich would do to today's NBA with the being allowed to carry and palm the ball?

Finally...and sorry to bring it up again...but there was the greatest "bridge" of all-time...Kareem. His career spanned the 60's into the last year of the 80's. And while he struggled against an old Wilt and an aging Thurmond in his career H2H's with them...he absolutely carpet-bombed a young Hakeem. Hell, even as late as the 86-87 season, and at age 40, he was badly outplaying a 25 year old Hakeem.

I mentioned an old Wilt (who easily outplayed rookie Kareem in their one H2H before Wilt shredded his knee), and Thurmond (who remarkably outscored and outshot a PEAK Kareem in the '72 playoffs), but centers like McAdoo, Lanier, and Gilmore were battling a prime Kareem to a draw in the mid-to-late 70's. And then the ultimate "Kareem-Killer" came along at the end of the 70's...Moses, who just OWNED Kareem in his career. And yet a 38-39 year old KAJ routinely dumped 40+ point games on Hakeem, and even demolished Ewing with a 40 point game. And we know that Hakeem and Ewing went on to be, at the very least, among the top-4 centers of the 90's.

And as dominant as a PEAK Kareem was in the early-to-mid 70's, he was nowhere near as dominant as a PRIME Chamberlain had been in the 60's. In fact, a PRIME Chamberlain was FAR more dominant against the same centers (most of whom were on the decline) that a prime Kareem would face a few years later.

I'm sorry to tell the "ESPN Generation" this, but the reality was, the average player in the 60's and 70's would have been the average player in the 00's. The game has simply not changed much at all. Sure, there have been RULES changes, like the 24 second clock in the mid-50's, the widening of the lane in the 60's (which had ZERO effect on Wilt BTW), and the 3pt shot in the late 70's. And along the way a few minor ones, like goal-tending in the 50's, zone defense rules in the 60's thru the early 80's, and a few other "tweaks." But the game has changed little. It is still played on the same size court, with the same sized ball and hoop, with the same number of players, and the same basic rules. And it is a SIMPLE game, as well. 6 year olds can play the game. It comes down to shooting, dribbling, passing, rebounding, and defense. That is IT.

And BTW, defenses are NOT better today than they were 50 years ago, either. In fact, I would argue that they are worse. Today's NBA has an eFG% of nearly 50%, and even collective FG%'s are in the 45% range. What is has become, though, is a game of possessions. Teams milk the shot clock, and even pass up wide open shots, and often take worse shots as the clock winds down. Gone are the blistering fast-breaks...even with supposed better athletes. Teams seldom even look to run. All of which makes the '72 Lakers even more remarkable. With an aged roster, they just BLEW AWAY the league with a devastating fast-break. And the Lakers of the 80's perfected it. But alas, the "Bad Boys" changed the game in the late 80's to a brutal, slow-down game, and teams like the Knicks in the 90's perfected it. And now it is just a game of "grind-it-out."

And the 3pt shot has also slowed the game down dramatically. What is ironic though, is that true post-up centers would THRIVE in this era. The floor is spread wide, and even a well-past-prime Duncan still dominates. Same with the 6-9 1/2 Cousins. If Cousins can put up 24-12 seasons, then the truly GREAT post-up centers...like Shaq, Hakeem, Moses, Kareem, and Wilt, ...would be hanging 30+ ppg seasons as easily as they did in their era's. Hell, a washed up Shaq put up a 45 point game in 2009 forcryingoutloud.

Again...IF today's NBA is better...it is only MARGINALLY better. And the truly GREAT players of ANY era would be great today.

[CavaliersFTW]

This.

Those who claim that the "population explosion" and "world-wide" game need to explain why we haven't had a single Shaq since he retired. Or MJ. Or D-Rob. Or Hakeem. Or Bird. Or Magic. Or Moses. Or Walton. Or Kareem. Or Wilt. Not one. Not even close.

Or the fact that a 38 year old Duncan is still among the best players in the league. Hell, I would take him over a prime Marc Gasol in a heartbeat.

Or the fact this population boom has not brought us seven-foot "Magic's." Nope...all we have are a slew of 6-9 centers who can't shoot from three-plus feet. A few years ago a 6-8 Kevin Love ran away with the rebounding title. A few years before him, a 6-7 Ben Wallace (who could't shoot from point-blank range) not only was running away with rebounding titles, he was also winning multiple DPOY's.

For those idiots who laugh at footage of Bob Cousy...how about the worst shooter in NBA history playing in TODAY's NBA? I give you Ricky Rubio...who wouldn't have sniffed a top college roster in the 60's and 70's. Oh, and while Cousy won one MVP...how about a 6-3 Steve Nash winning TWO in the 00's? Hell, a 37 year old Nash, playing 33 mpg, led the league assists.

How do the bashers of the 60's explain the fact that the NBA shot FTs better in 1959, than the CURRENT NBA? With all of this modern training and technology...and players TODAY are FAR worse at shooting FT's than those in the 70's (the '74 NBA shot .771...today's NBA is at .754.)

Furthermore, in the "weak" 60's and 70's, there were quite a plethora of LEGIT 7-0+ players, many of whom were successful in college...that were ordinary to mediocre in the NBA. Steve Turner was a full 7-4. Swede Halbrook was a full 7-3. Tommy Burleson (who battled Walton to a draw in their two H2H's in college) was a full 7-2.

And of course, thanks to the research of CavsFTW, we now know that the LISTED heights of players since the 80's has been a joke. "7-0" Hakeem...barely 6-10. "7-4" Ralph Sampson...shorter than 7-2 Kareem. Today's NBA is littered with 6-11 to 7-0+ players who are barely 6-9 and 6-10. Cousins, Whiteside, Howard, Jordan, and Drummond...NONE even 6-10. Hell, the "7-1" Spencer Hawes is ACTUALLY a little over 6-10.

Meanwhile, in the 60's and 70's...many players were actually TALLER than their listed heights. For his entire college career Elvin Hayes was listed at 6-8. Turns out he was just as tall as the "6-11" Dwight Howard. Russell was listed at 6-9 his entire NBA career...same actual height as the "6-11" Hassan Whiteside. Wilt was listed at 7-1, but was certainly taller. Bill Walton was listed at 6-11, and there are accounts as high as 7-2.

Continued...
You mentioned a "6-3 Nash"

To further your point, Nash and Cousy are/were the exact same height and weight.

6-1, 175

Nash's 6-3 is a 2 inch inflation over his actual height without shoes

[LAZERUSS]

You mentioned a "6-3 Nash"

To further your point, Nash and Cousy are/were the exact same height and weight.

6-1, 175

Nash's 6-3 is a 2 inch inflation over his actual height without shoes

Just another example then.

And again...a 37 year old Nash, playing 33 mpg, LED the league in apg. And a few years before that he won TWO MVP's.

That just speaks VOLUMES about today's "superior athletes."

[jongib369]

My offensive game is very 50s ish. Hooks, finger rolls, push shots, set shots, underhand free throw etc etc....I'm a raw dribbler, but I've got an okay jumper and left/right sweeping hook considering how much I've practiced. Back to the basket finger roll is a newer addition, but I can make it.

If I ever play anyone from insidehoops, a friend, or the intermural league at my community college this spring/summer I'll make sure to post it for you guys.

[Dr.J4ever]

My offensive game is very 50s ish. Hooks, finger rolls, push shots, set shots, underhand free throw etc etc....I'm a raw dribbler, but I've got an okay jumper and left/right sweeping hook considering how much I've practiced. Back to the basket finger roll is a newer addition, but I can make it.

If I ever play anyone from insidehoops, a friend, or the intermural league at my community college this spring/summer I'll make sure to post it for you guys.

Me too. I love the post up hook shot off the board. I love open set shots using 2 hands :lol . I can't do finger rolls because as it's defined by the Doctor himself, it's an underhanded finger tip shot at the height of your jump. I can only do basic layups.

Anyway, I'm from another era of basketball training. I played this way during the 80s, and I wasn't a bad player, but I wasn't athletic by any means.

During the early 00s, I played some younger guys and I was surprised. They were shooting step back Js, you know shots you only see in the modern NBA, and it was embarrassing on my part.

It was also partly due to my age, of course, but new moves and more athleticism, and stronger, and more well built athletes, not necessarily taller, are all over the NBA landscape these days. If you don't think heavier players and stronger players matter in basketball, you haven't played too much pick up hoops.

[jongib369]

Me too. I love the post up hook shot off the board. I love open set shots using 2 hands :lol . I can't do finger rolls because as it's defined by the Doctor himself, it's an underhanded finger tip shot at the height of your jump. I can only do basic layups.

Anyway, I'm from another era of basketball training. I played this way during the 80s, and I wasn't a bad player, but I wasn't athletic by any means.

During the early 00s, I played some younger guys and I was surprised. They were shooting step back Js, you know shots you only see in the modern NBA, and it was embarrassing on my part.

It was also partly due to my age, of course, but new moves and more athleticism, and stronger, and more well built athletes, not necessarily taller, are all over the NBA landscape these days. If you don't think heavier players and stronger players doesn't matter in basketball, you haven't played too much pick up hoops.
Glad to hear someone plays similar to myself :cheers:

A more practiced version of myself anyways....

And I totally understand the impact. When I play people a similar size to me Im usaually a wall to them. And I can only imagine now since I've finally started a semi serious strength training routine. But in terms of skill sets, it was just different than yours. And if you were young, they likely wouldn't of been able to stop you.