RoundMoundOfReb
02-12-2015, 12:40 AM
Those who claim that the "population explosion" and "world-wide" game need to explain why we haven't had a single Shaq since he retired. Or MJ. Or D-Rob. Or Hakeem. Or Bird. Or Magic. Or Moses. Or Walton. Or Kareem. Or Wilt. Not one. Not even close.
Or the fact that a 38 year old Duncan is still among the best players in the league. Hell, I would take him over a prime Marc Gasol in a heartbeat.
Or the fact this population boom has not brought us seven-foot "Magic's." Nope...all we have are a slew of 6-9 centers who can't shoot from three-plus feet. A few years ago a 6-8 Kevin Love ran away with the rebounding title. A few years before him, a 6-7 Ben Wallace (who could't shoot from point-blank range) not only was running away with rebounding titles, he was also winning multiple DPOY's.
For those idiots who laugh at footage of Bob Cousy...how about the worst shooter in NBA history playing in TODAY's NBA? I give you Ricky Rubio...who wouldn't have sniffed a top college roster in the 60's and 70's. Oh, and while Cousy won one MVP...how about a 6-3 Steve Nash winning TWO in the 00's? Hell, a 37 year old Nash, playing 33 mpg, led the league assists.
How do the bashers of the 60's explain the fact that the NBA shot FTs better in 1959, than the CURRENT NBA? With all of this modern training and technology...and players TODAY are FAR worse at shooting FT's than those in the 70's (the '74 NBA shot .771...today's NBA is at .754.)
Furthermore, in the "weak" 60's and 70's, there were quite a plethora of LEGIT 7-0+ players, many of whom were successful in college...that were ordinary to mediocre in the NBA. Steve Turner was a full 7-4. Swede Halbrook was a full 7-3. Tommy Burleson (who battled Walton to a draw in their two H2H's in college) was a full 7-2.
And of course, thanks to the research of CavsFTW, we now know that the LISTED heights of players since the 80's has been a joke. "7-0" Hakeem...barely 6-10. "7-4" Ralph Sampson...shorter than 7-2 Kareem. Today's NBA is littered with 6-11 to 7-0+ players who are barely 6-9 and 6-10. Cousins, Whiteside, Howard, Jordan, and Drummond...NONE even 6-10. Hell, the "7-1" Spencer Hawes is ACTUALLY a little over 6-10.
Meanwhile, in the 60's and 70's...many players were actually TALLER than their listed heights. For his entire college career Elvin Hayes was listed at 6-8. Turns out he was just as tall as the "6-11" Dwight Howard. Russell was listed at 6-9 his entire NBA career...same actual height as the "6-11" Hassan Whiteside. Wilt was listed at 7-1, but was certainly taller. Bill Walton was listed at 6-11, and there are accounts as high as 7-2.
And again, for those that argue that today's NBA is much more athletic...how do explain Kevin Love, Steve Nash, and Andrew Bogut? And on the flip side, James White was a complete bust. Same with a 7-4 350+ lb. Priest Lauderdale. Basketball is NOT a game of pure athleticism as evidenced by a 6-8 Rodman winning seven rebounding titles. In fact, take Chamberlain out of the equation, and 6-10 and shorter players have dominated the rebounding titles. Some who couldn't jump...like Moses Malone.
Sure there are more players and potential players in the NBA today than 40-50 years ago. Trouble is...even in the 60's and 70's the talent level was FAR more than the number of teams. There were star players in college who were ordinary, or even busts in the NBA. And I would argue that the college game was FAR superior in the 60's and 70's as to what the CURRENT college system is. Back in the 60's and 70's...players like Hayes, Maravich, and Kareem would have been starting in the NBA after a single season of college ball (or right out of high school as Moses would do a few years later.) Instead, they were locked into four years, and the UCLA Dynasty had NBA lineups. Even MJ's college teams, which allowed players to jump to the NBA sooner, were packed with quality NBA players like Worthy, Perkins, and Daughtery, and yet, they could barely squeeze out one NCAA title. In any case, those UCLA and Carolina teams would have SHELLED this year's Kentucky team. Massive blowouts.
CavsFTW said it best...from the late 50's on...the BEST players in the world, were playing in the NBA. Yes, there were a FEW exceptions...Connie Hawkins for many years (but it was NOT race that kept him out), Raymond Lewis (combination of factors), and likely a FEW others.
And again, aside from a HANDFUL of great Euros (and other non-USA players), how many truly GREAT players has the rest of the world turned out in the last 50 years? And even if you include Duncan, Hakeem and Ewing, all of whom developed their games in the US, the list is NOT long.
Furthermore, the REALITY is, go ahead and subtract the vast majority of Euros that are playing in the NBA right now, and you could easily replace them with the best college players in the US. The Mozgovs, Rubios, and the many other non-US players are average at best, and would have been average, at best, in the 60's and 70's.
The REALITY was, that there were MANY truly exceptional basketball players in the 60's and 70's who were simply not good enough to make NBA rosters. Plain-and-simple. And today there are just more of them. The "bottom-feeders" in the 60's and 70's...those players buried at the end of the bench...were college super-stars. They were NOT "janitors" and "garbage men."
There's more....he goes on longer but it's over 10000 characters so i can't post it in 1 post.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=367767&page=2
1861 words (actually probably more than that since he combined some words and has the "...."s between some as well)
Audio book version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFiODLNr2L8
Like and subscribe.
Or the fact that a 38 year old Duncan is still among the best players in the league. Hell, I would take him over a prime Marc Gasol in a heartbeat.
Or the fact this population boom has not brought us seven-foot "Magic's." Nope...all we have are a slew of 6-9 centers who can't shoot from three-plus feet. A few years ago a 6-8 Kevin Love ran away with the rebounding title. A few years before him, a 6-7 Ben Wallace (who could't shoot from point-blank range) not only was running away with rebounding titles, he was also winning multiple DPOY's.
For those idiots who laugh at footage of Bob Cousy...how about the worst shooter in NBA history playing in TODAY's NBA? I give you Ricky Rubio...who wouldn't have sniffed a top college roster in the 60's and 70's. Oh, and while Cousy won one MVP...how about a 6-3 Steve Nash winning TWO in the 00's? Hell, a 37 year old Nash, playing 33 mpg, led the league assists.
How do the bashers of the 60's explain the fact that the NBA shot FTs better in 1959, than the CURRENT NBA? With all of this modern training and technology...and players TODAY are FAR worse at shooting FT's than those in the 70's (the '74 NBA shot .771...today's NBA is at .754.)
Furthermore, in the "weak" 60's and 70's, there were quite a plethora of LEGIT 7-0+ players, many of whom were successful in college...that were ordinary to mediocre in the NBA. Steve Turner was a full 7-4. Swede Halbrook was a full 7-3. Tommy Burleson (who battled Walton to a draw in their two H2H's in college) was a full 7-2.
And of course, thanks to the research of CavsFTW, we now know that the LISTED heights of players since the 80's has been a joke. "7-0" Hakeem...barely 6-10. "7-4" Ralph Sampson...shorter than 7-2 Kareem. Today's NBA is littered with 6-11 to 7-0+ players who are barely 6-9 and 6-10. Cousins, Whiteside, Howard, Jordan, and Drummond...NONE even 6-10. Hell, the "7-1" Spencer Hawes is ACTUALLY a little over 6-10.
Meanwhile, in the 60's and 70's...many players were actually TALLER than their listed heights. For his entire college career Elvin Hayes was listed at 6-8. Turns out he was just as tall as the "6-11" Dwight Howard. Russell was listed at 6-9 his entire NBA career...same actual height as the "6-11" Hassan Whiteside. Wilt was listed at 7-1, but was certainly taller. Bill Walton was listed at 6-11, and there are accounts as high as 7-2.
And again, for those that argue that today's NBA is much more athletic...how do explain Kevin Love, Steve Nash, and Andrew Bogut? And on the flip side, James White was a complete bust. Same with a 7-4 350+ lb. Priest Lauderdale. Basketball is NOT a game of pure athleticism as evidenced by a 6-8 Rodman winning seven rebounding titles. In fact, take Chamberlain out of the equation, and 6-10 and shorter players have dominated the rebounding titles. Some who couldn't jump...like Moses Malone.
Sure there are more players and potential players in the NBA today than 40-50 years ago. Trouble is...even in the 60's and 70's the talent level was FAR more than the number of teams. There were star players in college who were ordinary, or even busts in the NBA. And I would argue that the college game was FAR superior in the 60's and 70's as to what the CURRENT college system is. Back in the 60's and 70's...players like Hayes, Maravich, and Kareem would have been starting in the NBA after a single season of college ball (or right out of high school as Moses would do a few years later.) Instead, they were locked into four years, and the UCLA Dynasty had NBA lineups. Even MJ's college teams, which allowed players to jump to the NBA sooner, were packed with quality NBA players like Worthy, Perkins, and Daughtery, and yet, they could barely squeeze out one NCAA title. In any case, those UCLA and Carolina teams would have SHELLED this year's Kentucky team. Massive blowouts.
CavsFTW said it best...from the late 50's on...the BEST players in the world, were playing in the NBA. Yes, there were a FEW exceptions...Connie Hawkins for many years (but it was NOT race that kept him out), Raymond Lewis (combination of factors), and likely a FEW others.
And again, aside from a HANDFUL of great Euros (and other non-USA players), how many truly GREAT players has the rest of the world turned out in the last 50 years? And even if you include Duncan, Hakeem and Ewing, all of whom developed their games in the US, the list is NOT long.
Furthermore, the REALITY is, go ahead and subtract the vast majority of Euros that are playing in the NBA right now, and you could easily replace them with the best college players in the US. The Mozgovs, Rubios, and the many other non-US players are average at best, and would have been average, at best, in the 60's and 70's.
The REALITY was, that there were MANY truly exceptional basketball players in the 60's and 70's who were simply not good enough to make NBA rosters. Plain-and-simple. And today there are just more of them. The "bottom-feeders" in the 60's and 70's...those players buried at the end of the bench...were college super-stars. They were NOT "janitors" and "garbage men."
There's more....he goes on longer but it's over 10000 characters so i can't post it in 1 post.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=367767&page=2
1861 words (actually probably more than that since he combined some words and has the "...."s between some as well)
Audio book version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFiODLNr2L8
Like and subscribe.