Laimbeer: "We didn't even think about Scottie Pippen"

[3ball]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqC74bv46Z8&t=1h07m33s


Bill Laimbeer: "We didn't even think about Scottie Pippen. It was Michael Jordan and the Jordannaires - and you can't win championships like that with only 1 player."


Jordan had the least supporting talent of any dynasty, which is why he was forced to produce the most raw offensive production of all time (as measured by points + assists):

43.3 points and 7.4 assists per 100 possessions in the playoffs... no one is close.
.

[JohnMax]

Apparently MJ and Scottie Pippen were hyper competitive on and off the court. They would go to clubs and battle to see who get **** the hottest chick, how many chicks would ask to come home with them in one night, etc. All in the name of competition. On this count, MJ could usually get the best of Pippen because he was the most famous. But, it just so happened that whenever Madonna was in town she would always **** Pippen and ignore MJ. This made MJ livid. He would always put the moves on Madonna but she would shoot him down in favor of Pippen. Finally she told MJ why: Pippen's enormous package. That's something MJ just couldn't compete with.

[Roundball_Rock]

Chuck Daly: Pippen was a superstar in the making, I knew our days were numbered when the Bulls got him. (from Halberstom's MJ book. Daly saw the Bulls would surge past Detroit once Pippen realized his potential with experience)

Michael Jordan: "When I said (in 1995) that Scottie was the best player in the league I meant it."

MJ also compared Pippen to Magic and Bird as achieving a "certain level of greatness."

:cheers:

[Uncle Drew]

Jesus Christ, 3ball is actually worse than that guy defending MJ's dick size. Why won't you just walk in front of a train?

[oarabbus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqC74bv46Z8&t=1h07m33s


Bill Laimbeer: "We didn't even think about Scottie Pippen. It was Michael Jordan and the Jordannaires - and you can't win championships like that with only 1 player."


Jordan had the least supporting talent of any dynasty, which is why he was forced to produce the most raw offensive production of all time (as measured by points + assists):

43.3 points and 7.4 assists per 100 possessions in the playoffs... no one is close.
.


:roll:


I'll let the Bulls fans (the REAL Bulls fans, not the MJ knob slobbers) to come in and sort this one out. They don't take kindly to calling Pippen trash :oldlol:

[LoneyROY7]

Top 50 player of all-time.

[Demon Lizard]

Well no crap. The Pistons/Bulls battles were before Pippen truly became relevant.

[LoneyROY7]

not according to isiah thomas - isiah said on NBA TV's Open Court that pippen didn't deserve to be top 50, and the OP quote shows Laimbeer saying the entire Piston team didn't focus at all on pippen.. only on Jordan.

I don't give a f*ck.

[3ball]

Pippen Top 50 player of all-time.


not according to isiah thomas - isiah said on NBA TV's Open Court that pippen didn't deserve to be top 50, and the OP quote shows Laimbeer saying the entire Piston team didn't focus at all on pippen.. only on Jordan.

[LoneyROY7]

not according to isiah thomas - isiah said on NBA TV's Open Court that pippen didn't deserve to be top 50, and the OP quote shows Laimbeer saying the entire Piston team didn't focus at all on pippen.. only on Jordan.

You didn't hear me the first time?

I. Don't. Give. A. F*ck.

[The Iron Sheik]

Well no crap. The Pistons/Bulls battles were before Pippen truly became relevant.

right. that's like the jazz saying they didn't fear kobe bryant in the mid 90s. kobe didn't really become an elite player until 99.

[SpaceJammeR]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqC74bv46Z8&t=1h07m33s


Bill Laimbeer: "We didn't even think about Scottie Pippen. It was Michael Jordan and the Jordannaires - and you can't win championships like that with only 1 player."


Jordan had the least supporting talent of any dynasty, which is why he was forced to produce the most raw offensive production of all time (as measured by points + assists):

43.3 points and 7.4 assists per 100 possessions in the playoffs... no one is close.
.

scottie pippen is better than a lot of stars today. i'd take scottie pippen over kd right now. serious because his defense and his bball iq and he was no slouch offensively as well.

[Lebron23]

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/gallery_images/photos/000/746/772/GYI0063512815_crop_450x500.jpg

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1991_ECF.html

[r0drig0lac]

You didn't hear me the first time?

I. Don't. Give. A. F*ck.
:lol

[T_L_P]

Apparently MJ and Scottie Pippen were hyper competitive on and off the court. They would go to clubs and battle to see who get **** the hottest chick, how many chicks would ask to come home with them in one night, etc. All in the name of competition. On this count, MJ could usually get the best of Pippen because he was the most famous. But, it just so happened that whenever Madonna was in town she would always **** Pippen and ignore MJ. This made MJ livid. He would always put the moves on Madonna but she would shoot him down in favor of Pippen. Finally she told MJ why: Pippen's enormous package. That's something MJ just couldn't compete with.

Yeah, Scottie lives in MJ's head.

His size was too much for Jordan to handle.

[fpliii]

I give MJ a ton of credit for making adjustments to his game to allow his teammates to flourish. Nobody has won in league history going 1-on-5.

[QUOTE="The Jordan Rules"]Jordan and Jackson would finally have their conversation when Jordan stopped by the coach

[3ball]

right. that's like the jazz saying they didn't fear kobe bryant in the mid 90s. kobe didn't really become an elite player until 99.
the point is that the Bulls were a 1-man team - "Jordan and the Jordannaires" as Laimbeer put it.

Hence the GOAT offensive production, as measured by points + assists.

[3ball]

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/gallery_images/photos/000/746/772/GYI0063512815_crop_450x500.jpg

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1991_ECF.html
Michael 30 PPG, 7 APG, 65% TS... yikes

[Lebron23]

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2011/03/scottie_pippen_takes_shots_at.html

Pippen called Laimbeer "not a real athlete a couple of years ago."

Pippen won multiple playoffs series without Jordan.

[SouBeachTalents]

the point is that the Bulls were a 1-man team - "Jordan and the Jordannaires" as Laimbeer put it.

Hence the GOAT offensive production, as measured by points + assists.

Pippen during the first 3peat
RS: 19, 8, 7 on 50%
PO: 20, 8, 6 on 48%
Averaged at least 21, 8, 7 in every Finals. None of this even covers his elite defense

Rodman during the second 3peat averaged 15 rebounds per game as well

Bulls were a "one man team" doe :lol

[Smoke117]

This is actually flattering for Scottie. You don't run a campaign trying to bury someone unless you are threatened by them.

[Lebron23]

Michael 30 PPG, 7 APG, 65% TS... yikes


Who cares? You stupid Jordan Stan. Bulls started winning NBA titles when Pippen elevated his game in the playoffs.

[OldSchoolBBall]

i'd take scottie pippen over kd right now.

:roll:

[3ball]

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2011/03/scottie_pippen_takes_shots_at.html

Pippen called Laimbeer "not a real athlete a couple of years ago."

Pippen won multiple playoffs series without Jordan.
"Maybe it was the pressure.. As the pressure grew, the pounding grew."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqC74bv46Z8&t=1h22m16s


That's Pippen talking about why he disappeared in 1990 ECF Game 7 and cost the Bulls a trip to the Finals.

It's amazing... Jordan had to do everything for that team - NO ALL-STARS when he won the championship in 1991... only 4 teams have done that in the last 35 years, since the inception of the 3-point line in 1982 (1991 Bulls, 1994 Rockets, 1999 Spurs, 2011 Mavericks).

There's a reason Jordan was forced to put up the greatest offensive raw production ever (as measured by points and assists) to win his championships - he simply had the least supporting talent of any dynasty.

[tpols]

This is actually flattering for Scottie. You don't run a campaign trying to bury someone unless you are threatened by them.

Make a thread about 90s vs 00s perimeter talent.. Scottie will be one of the first names on 3balls list. :lol

I don't get why he does it.. Making everyone hate mj and walk away with opposite feeling of what he's trying to convince.

[Lebron23]

Pippen during the first 3peat
RS: 19, 8, 7 on 50%
PO: 20, 8, 6 on 48%
Averaged at least 21, 8, 7 in every Finals. None of this even covers his elite defense

Rodman during the second 3peat averaged 15 rebounds per game as well

Bulls wera a "one man team" doe :lol


That douchebag always underrated Jordan's teammates. Pippen was something special in the Bulls first 3 peat.

[3ball]

That douchebag always underrated Jordan's teammates. Pippen was something special in the Bulls first 3 peat.
that's nice, but 20 PPG from your #2 is not beating the world.

the reality is still that Jordan had the least supporting talent of any superstar to win multiple rings, so he had to produce more offensively (as measured by points + assists) than anyone ever has.

[Roundball_Rock]

That douchebag always underrated Jordan's teammates. Pippen was something special in the Bulls first 3 peat.

:applause:

It iI funny how one Laimbeer quote is being hyped but what Chuck Daly thought is ignored. Daly knew Detroit was done when he saw young Pippen on the court. He knew Chicago had a future superstar and the Bulls would bury the Pistons when he grew into that potential.

If the claims made about MJ are accurate none of this would be needed. His actual record would suffice. This guy is claiming MJ won with little help. :roll:

We saw MJ's "record" before Pippen became a top player. :lol

[Lebron23]

that's nice, but 20 PPG from your #2 is not beating the world.

the reality is still that Jordan had the least supporting talent of any superstar to win multiple rings, so he had to produce more offensively (as measured by points + assists) than anyone ever has.


You truly are an idiot. Pippen averaged 20,8,7 + A top 5 defense in the NBA. It's good enough for the Bulls to win 55 games in the 1993-94 NBA Season without MJ.


:applause:

It iI funny how one Laimbeer quote is being hyped but what Chuck Daly thought is ignored. Daly knew Detroit was done when he saw young Pippen on the court. He knew Chicago had a future superstar and the Bulls would bury the Pistons when he grew into that potential.

If the claims made about MJ are accurate none of this would be needed. His actual record would suffice. This guy is claiming MJ won with little help. :roll:

We saw MJ's "record" before Pippen became a top player. :lol

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[3ball]

that's nice, but 20 PPG from your #2 is not beating the world.

the reality is still that Jordan had the least supporting talent of any superstar to win multiple rings, so he had to produce more offensively (as measured by points + assists) than anyone ever has.





You truly are an idiot.


what is inaccurate about anything i just said

btw, you act like I'm the one that said pippen was a non-factor... that's what LAIMBEER said.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

btw, you act like I'm the one that said pippen was a non-factor... that's what LAIMBEER said.

You posted it for what reason? To try and shit on Pippen and elevate Jordan.

You're such a stan, you're transparent.

[Roundball_Rock]

You posted it for what reason? To try and shit on Pippen and elevate Jordan.

You're such a stan, you're transparent.

He is melting down because most people who are not MJ stans think the Bulls would win rings with Mitch Richmond. :lol

MJ was nowhere to be seen before Pippen became an all-star type player.

[andgar923]

He is melting down because most people who are not MJ stans think the Bulls would win rings with Mitch Richmond. :lol

MJ was nowhere to be seen before Pippen became an all-star type player.

And he became an all star player thanks to who?

[Hey Yo]

that's nice, but 20 PPG from your #2 is not beating the world.

the reality is still that Jordan had the least supporting talent of any superstar to win multiple rings, so he had to produce more offensively (as measured by points + assists) than anyone ever has.
Can show us where MJ lead his team in points, rebounds, assists and steals in B2B postseason title years?

[Hey Yo]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/2776228/well-we-re-waiting-o.gif

[JT123]

And he became an all star player thanks to who?
Himself. :hammerhead:
MJ stans with their idiotic "Jordan was so great he could turn scrubs into Hall of Famers" :facepalm

[Roundball_Rock]

Himself. :hammerhead:
MJ stans with their idiotic "Jordan was so great he could turn scrubs into Hall of Famers" :facepalm

Exactly. :oldlol: MJ has not even had a perennial all-star during his time in Washington and Charlotte yet he can "mint" HOF'es? If he could he would have done so. Instead his teams have either been lousy or borderline playoff teams at best year after year. Pippen was a top 5 pick--taken over players like Kevin Johnson, Reggie Miller, Horace Grant, Kenny Smith, Mark Jackson and Reggie Lewis. Chuck Daly and Detroit's GM wanted him. So did Russell in Sacramento.

[Fire Colangelo]

And he became an all star player thanks to who?

Jordan should turn the Hornets into an all star team.

[Roundball_Rock]

What the OP did not mention is Detroit tried to trade up for Pippen. Imagine that scenario. Pippen would hit his prime as the rest of the team declined. Pippen would have prolonged the Detroit dynasty. They would likely win again in 91' and perhaps also in 92'.

[3ball]

Can show us where MJ lead his team in points, rebounds, assists and steals in B2B postseason title years?
and still less points + assists.

lebron should have scored more - jordan did all that lebron did (with more steals), but he did it while scoring 20% more...

20% more is a super-ton and produced far better results...

btw, 20% more is just for the playoffs as a whole.. in the Finals, MJ scores 45% more with exponentially better results.
.

[Roundball_Rock]

and still less points + assists.

lebron should have scored more - jordan did all that lebron did (with more steals), but he did it while scoring 20% more...

20% more is a super-ton and produced far better results.

So in your opinion if Detroit drafted Pippen where would MJ have been? Would he retire ringless in 93' and never return to basketball?

[24-Inch_Chrome]

So in your opinion if Detroit drafted Pippen where would MJ have been? Would he retire ringless in 93' and never return to basketball?

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/lapsedlawyer/popcorn.gif

This should be fun.

[3ball]

So in your opinion if Detroit drafted Pippen where would MJ have been? Would he retire ringless in 93' and never return to basketball?
again, Pippen is a nice player to have, but 20 PPG from your #2 is not beating the world.

jordan still had the worst supporting talent of any star to win multiple rings.. it's not even close.

which is why his stats and performance had to be GOAT.

[Hey Yo]

and still less points + assists.

lebron should have scored more - jordan did all that lebron did (with more steals), but he did it while scoring 20% more...

20% more is a super-ton and produced far better results...

btw, 20% more is just for the playoffs as a whole.. in the Finals, MJ scores 45% more with exponentially better results.
.
You could have saved yourself some time and energy and just wrote. "No, I can't"

[24-Inch_Chrome]

again, Pippen is a nice player to have, but 20 PPG from your #2 is not beating the world.

jordan still had the worst supporting talent of any star to win multiple rings.. it's not even close.

which is why his stats and performance had to be GOAT.

:biggums:

Are you purposefully ignoring Pippen's defensive value or has Jordan's jizz rendered you blind? There's more to evaluating players than PPG.

Stop shitting on his supporting cast, there's no justification for it.

[LoneyROY7]

It's really hard for me to separate Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen.

I think when most people list MJ as the GOAT, they are really citing Michael and Scottie as a single symbiotic player.

As individuals they both were unsuccessful in getting their teams over the hump, but as a duo they were the most unstoppable force the game has seen.

:applause:

[Roundball_Rock]

again, Pippen is a nice player to have, but 20 PPG from your #2 is not beating the world.

jordan still had the worst supporting talent of any star to win multiple rings.. it's not even close.

which is why his stats and performance had to be GOAT.

1990: Detroit champs, Bulls ECSF
1991: Detroit champs, Bulls ECF
1992: Detroit Finals, Bulls ECSF
1993: Detroit ECSF, Bulls ECF
1994: MJ retired.

Detroit would have kept owning MJ with Pip on the Pistons instead of the Bulls. Be grateful for what Pip helped MJ achieve.

[97 bulls]

again, Pippen is a nice player to have, but 20 PPG from your #2 is not beating the world.

jordan still had the worst supporting talent of any star to win multiple rings.. it's not even close.

which is why his stats and performance had to be GOAT.
Ok. Answer this question....what was the ppg avg of the number two guys of the Showtime Lakers, Celtics, Pistons, Spurs, and Heat.

[TheMarkMadsen]

the other day Pippen = Durant

today Pippen = garbage

OP..:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

and way to take a quote from 1990 and act like it means anything about the bulls from 91-98

[andgar923]

Pippin fans ignoring the FACTS once again.

MJ made him that's a FACT.

[LoneyROY7]

Pippin fans ignoring the FACTS once again.

MJ made him that's a FACT.

MJ made Scottie the same way Scottie made MJ. :applause:

[Roundball_Rock]

Ok. Answer this question....what was the ppg avg of the number two guys of the Showtime Lakers, Celtics, Pistons, Spurs, and Heat.

Or even the #1 options on some championship teams. Their are teams who won championships with their top scorer being a high teen's or low 20's scorer. Look at the Spurs, 2008 Celtics and 2004 Pistons are modern examples. Even teams with an elite scorer like LeBron or Kobe had second options in that range--and guys like Gasol and Wade were not nearly the defensive force Pippen was.

Pippen's leadership is underrated. Someone had to keep the team together when MJ was routinely being an ahole. :lol

[andgar923]

MJ made Scottie the same way Scottie made MJ. :applause:

Umm.. NO

Scottie 'helped' MJ win a chip, nobody ever denies that. Without Scottie MJ probably never wins a chip, he needed his help.

But Scottie isn't able to help MJ, he does not become his sidekick if it isn't for MJ's mentorship.

Scottie didn't 'make' MJ into the player he became, he was already a great player.

MJ did take a rough player and turned him into a diamond by pushing him, mentoring him, teaching him, supporting him.

Again, all of this is very well documented and has been posted repeatedly.

But RR and his ilk keep ignoring FACTS and pretending Scottie Pippen sorta just happened in a big bang sorta way, ignoring actual evolution evidence.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

the other day Pippen = Durant

today Pippen = garbage

OP..:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

and way to take a quote from 1990 and act like it means anything about the bulls from 91-98
Guy is either trolling his ass off, or severely mentally ill.

Either way, its best to take anything he says with a grain of salt. Hell, just ignore everything he says all together.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Umm.. NO

Scottie 'helped' MJ win a chip, nobody ever denies that. Without Scottie MJ probably never wins a chip, he needed his help.



3ball denies this. He referred to Chicago as a one man team in this thread. He went on and on about how Jordan did everything and Pippen did jack. The highest compliment that he was willing to pay Pippen was that he "was a nice guy to have," which is a truly ridiculous way to undermine what Pippen contributed.

[andgar923]

3ball denies this. He referred to Chicago as a one man team in this thread. He went on and on about how Jordan did everything and Pippen did jack. The highest compliment that he was willing to pay Pippen was that he "was a nice guy to have," which is a truly ridiculous way to undermine what Pippen contributed.

Well he's just crazy then.

Pip was instrumental in those chips.

After all, somebody had to be feeding Mj that ball as well as his whipping boy in practice.


jokes... jokes....

[97 bulls]

Well he's just crazy then.

Pip was instrumental in those chips.

After all, somebody had to be feeding Mj that ball as well as his whipping boy in practice.


jokes... jokes....
Lol. Funny

[knicksman]

without jordan. Pippen would be a nobody. The guy is not a superstar material but he turned him into a top3 MVP

[24-Inch_Chrome]

without jordan. Pippen would be a nobody. The guy is not a superstar material but he turned him into a top3 MVP

Shhh.

[Top Gun]

without jordan. Pippen would be a nobody. The guy is not a superstar material but he turned him into a top3 MVP

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/strchw.gif

[3ball]

3ball denies this. He referred to Chicago as a one man team in this thread. He went on and on about how Jordan did everything and Pippen did jack. The highest compliment that he was willing to pay Pippen was that he "was a nice guy to have," which is a truly ridiculous way to undermine what Pippen contributed.
of course jordan needed pippen to win his rings... that goes without saying and isn't the point..

the point is that jordan still had the worst supporting talent of any star to win multiple rings.. it's not even close.

which is why his stats and performance had to be GOAT.

as for calling the bulls a one-man team.. again, that's not why I said.. that's what LAIMBEER said (among many others).
.

[knicksman]

Pippen is just like worthy. Nobody cares about them if they were on a losing team. Nobody even cares about worthy despite being a winner. They are just the type of players that cant carry a team.

[Roundball_Rock]

"Michael realized how easy it was to play with him and how he helped make his teammates better. It's often said Jordan needed Pippen and Pippen needed Jordan. I'm not sure Jordan didn't need Pippen more than Pippen needed Jordan."

:cheers:

[3ball]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqC74bv46Z8&t=1h07m33s

Bill Laimbeer: "We didn't even think about Scottie Pippen. It was Michael Jordan and the Jordannaires - and you can't win championships like that with only 1 player."


There's another quote where Isiah said he and Dumars went out by the river and talked all night about how they were going to stop MJ..

If someone would have said "Hey guys, what about Pippen?"... they would have been like: :roll:

[gts]

Pippen is just like worthy. Nobody cares about them if they were on a losing team. Nobody even cares about worthy despite being a winner. They are just the type of players that cant carry a team.

Worthy carried the Lakers more than once in the playoffs... that Finals MVP of his being a prime example

[nycelt84]

Chuck Daly: Pippen was a superstar in the making, I knew our days were numbered when the Bulls got him. (from Halberstom's MJ book. Daly saw the Bulls would surge past Detroit once Pippen realized his potential with experience)

Michael Jordan: "When I said (in 1995) that Scottie was the best player in the league I meant it."

MJ also compared Pippen to Magic and Bird as achieving a "certain level of greatness."

:cheers:

Lets be real Daly was not think I clearly when he said this. The Pistons had won nothing by June 1987 when the Bulls got Pipped. They had no days yet that were to be numbered. And at that time almost no one thought theyd ever get past Boston.

[TheMarkMadsen]

of course jordan needed pippen to win his rings... that goes without saying and isn't the point..

the point is that jordan still had the worst supporting talent of any star to win multiple rings.. it's not even close.

which is why his stats and performance had to be GOAT.

as for calling the bulls a one-man team.. again, that's not why I said.. that's what LAIMBEER said (among many others).
.


:roll: :roll:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

of course jordan needed pippen to win his rings... that goes without saying and isn't the point..

the point is that jordan still had the worst supporting talent of any star to win multiple rings.. it's not even close.

which is why his stats and performance had to be GOAT.

as for calling the bulls a one-man team.. again, that's not why I said.. that's what LAIMBEER said (among many others).
.

Well, you actually referred to the Bulls as a one-man team and then related that to Laimbeer's comments. The fact that you bothered to post his quotes in the first place makes it pretty obvious that this is all part of your usual 'Jordan is god' agenda.

[3ball]

part of your usual 'Jordan is god' agenda.


he is in basketball shoes... that's not what i said, that's larry bird this time.

i'm just posting quotes people say... larry bird calls jordan god... i post it...

pippen says the pressure caused him to disappear in 1990 ECF Game 7 and cost the bulls a trip to the Finals.. i post it...

laimbeer says they never thought about Pippen, ever... i post it..

but remember, i'm just the messenger.

[Round Mound]

This is Why Hate Jordan Fans :rolleyes: .

Go Watch Those Games Between 1990-98: Pippen Was Easily The Best SF in the Game and a Better 2nd Option To Any Other Superstar Not Named Jordan. Period!

[Roundball_Rock]

Lets be real Daly was not think I clearly when he said this. The Pistons had won nothing by June 1987 when the Bulls got Pipped. They had no days yet that were to be numbered. And at that time almost no one thought theyd ever get past Boston.

I think the comment is from 1988 or 1989. By 1988 the Pistons were the supreme team in the East and by 1987 it was clear the Pistons were on the rise and Boston on the decline. Often that would augur a long stay at the top but Daly knew those days were numbered when Chicago got a second superstar talent. Remember, Detroit tried to trade up for Pippen themselves. They knew how good he was. Yet the coach and GM are ignored in favor of an out of context comment from a random player to suit the Jordan mythology agenda. :lol

[3ball]

:roll: :roll:
show me a star who won multiple rings with inferior supporting talent to Scottie, Horace, and a bunch of "others"

any other multiple ring winner has mchale, parish, dj.... kareem, worthy, scott... wade, bosh... parker, ginobili...

notice a trend here?... jordan doesn't have that 2nd or 3rd all-star... only scottie.
.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

of course jordan needed pippen to win his rings... that goes without saying and isn't the point..

the point is that jordan still had the worst supporting talent of any star to win multiple rings.. it's not even close.

which is why his stats and performance had to be GOAT.

as for calling the bulls a one-man team.. again, that's not why I said.. that's what LAIMBEER said (among many others).
.

Absurd. Hakeem won multiple rings with Ottis Thorpe and a past his prime Clyde Drexler as his #2s.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

show me a star who won multiple rings with inferior supporting talent to Scottie, Horace, and a bunch of "others"

or, Scottie, a 3 PPG PF, and a bunch of "others"
Hakeem Olajuwon

[3ball]

Hakeem Olajuwon
who else

any other multiple ring winner has mchale, parish, dj.... kareem, worthy, scott... wade, bosh... parker, ginobili...

notice a trend here?... jordan doesn't have that 2nd or 3rd all-star... only scottie.

jordan's the only multiple ring winner with only one other star (other than hakeem).

[boldarblood]

Pippin fans ignoring the FACTS once again.

MJ made him that's a FACT.

I am not even a Bulls, MJ, Pippen fan and even I know your retarded.

[Roundball_Rock]

show me a star who won multiple rings with inferior supporting talent to Scottie, Horace, and a bunch of "others"

or, Scottie, a 3 PPG PF, and a bunch of "others"

Over the past 30 years? Isiah, Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq, LeBron. None of those teams could win 55 games without said players; Chicago could and did.

[andgar923]

I am not even a Bulls, MJ, Pippen fan and even I know your retarded.
so Im retarded for posting what is a FACT?

It's been very well documented that MJ made Pip the player he became. Are you arguing against what is a FACT?

:confusedshrug:

[3ball]

Over the past 30 years? Isiah, Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq, LeBron. None of those teams could win 55 games without said players; Chicago could and did.
of course they could have - with the same conditions:

all supporting players are in their primes at the time the star player leaves, status as defending 3-peat champs, a big chip on their shoulder to prove themselves as better than just "Jordanaires", and a replacement as good as kukoc.

under these conditions that the Bulls had, all of those teams could win 55 except hakeem's 1994 team.

the only thing that these teams wouldn't have is the competitive drive and swagger that jordan instilled in the bulls, which allowed them to play so hard and determined all year.
.

[AintNoSunshine]

Anyone with half a brain will tell you the Bulls wouldn't be the same without Pippen. Jordan's great and all but what the fk has he done in the playoffs without Pip? On the other hand, Pippen had proved he can win Playoffs series without Jordan.

[3ball]

but what the fk has he done in the playoffs without Pip?


set the all-time scoring record against the league's #1 ranked defense and top 3 all-time dynasty at their peak.

[3ball]

but what the fk has he done in the playoffs without Pip?


Oh, and WITH pippen, jordan played so well, that the pistons didn't even think about pippen... all the focus was on Jordan:


Bill Laimbeer: "We didn't even think about Scottie Pippen. It was Michael Jordan and the Jordannaires - and you can't win championships like that with only 1 player."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqC74bv46Z8&t=1h07m33s


Laimbeer was saying this in hindsight, looking back.
.

[knicksman]

This is Why Hate Jordan Fans :rolleyes: .

Go What Those Games Between 1990-98: Pippen Was Easily The Best SF in the Game and a Better 2nd Option To Any Other Superstar Not Named Jordan. Period!

im pretty sure stockton/kj and other pure points are better as 2nd option to jordan.

[LoneyROY7]

set the all-time scoring record against the league's #1 ranked defense and top 3 all-time dynasty at their peak.

Empty stats.

[knicksman]

Oh, and WITH pippen, jordan played so well, that the pistons didn't even think about pippen... all the focus was on Jordan:


Bill Laimbeer: "We didn't even think about Scottie Pippen. It was Michael Jordan and the Jordannaires - and you can't win championships like that with only 1 player."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqC74bv46Z8&t=1h07m33s


Laimbeer was saying this in hindsight, looking back.
.

bro what hes saying is you cant win playing lebron ball. Playing 1 on 5 is a recipe for failure. Only when jordan learn to sacrifice stats(assists) to play off ball is the day he won rings. Thats why scottie was the playmaker despite him being an inferior passer. Compare that to wade who is as good as lebron as a playmaker yet bran marginalize his talent coz he cares more about stats than wins. So its not a surprise that lebron is 2/5 while jordan is 6/6.

[hitmanyr2k]

of course they could have - with the same conditions:

all supporting players are in their primes at the time the star player leaves, status as defending 3-peat champs, a big chip on their shoulder to prove themselves, and a replacement as good as kukoc.

under these conditions that the Bulls had, all of those teams could win 55 except hakeem's 1994 team.

the only thing that these teams wouldn't have is the competitive drive and swagger that jordan instilled in the bulls, which allowed them to play so hard and determined all year.

The Bulls in '94 had all kinds of challenges. The only consistent key guys from that title team were Pippen, Horace and BJ. Both Pippen and Horace Grant missed 10+ games that year. Pippen was dealing with a bum ankle that plagued him since '92 and trying to recover from offseason surgery which resulted in the slow start by the Bulls. Cartwright was on his last leg and only played half the season. Paxson was on his last leg and barely played. Scott Williams was injured most of the year. Just about all of the new faces (Kerr, Myers, Jo Jo English, Wennington, Longley, etc) on the Bulls were journeyman roleplayers that came from losing franchises...barely any playoff experience whatsoever and they had to learn the triange offense. Kukoc had trouble adjusting in his first year of the NBA. His defense was a sore spot, there was never any consistency in his play and his shooting was erratic. And maybe if Jordan hadn't made such a shit move of retiring 3 weeks before the season started the Bulls could have gotten better replacements than Pete Myers (probably the worst SG in Bulls history not named Keith Bogans) and Jo Jo English but they had to scramble to replace him with whatever they could find on short notice. Under those circumstances it's amazing the Bulls won 55 games. Could have won more if Pippen and Horace were completely healthy at the start of the season.

[Straight_Ballin]

Jesus Christ, 3ball is actually worse than that guy defending MJ's dick size. Why won't you just walk in front of a train?

He has to educate the ignorant.

[Dro]

I am not even a Bulls, MJ, Pippen fan and even I know your retarded.
:biggums:

[Roundball_Rock]

The Bulls in '94 had all kinds of challenges. The only consistent key guys from that title team were Pippen, Horace and BJ. Both Pippen and Horace Grant missed 10+ games that year. Pippen was dealing with a bum ankle that plagued him since '92 and trying to recover from offseason surgery which resulted in the slow start by the Bulls. Cartwright was on his last leg and only played half the season. Paxson was on his last leg and barely played. Scott Williams was injured most of the year. Just about all of the new faces (Kerr, Myers, Jo Jo English, Wennington, Longley, etc) on the Bulls were journeyman roleplayers that came from losing franchises...barely any playoff experience whatsoever and they had to learn the triange offense. Kukoc had trouble adjusting in his first year of the NBA. His defense was a sore spot, there was never any consistency in his play and his shooting was erratic. And maybe if Jordan hadn't made such a shit move of retiring 3 weeks before the season started the Bulls could have gotten better replacements than Pete Myers (probably the worst SG in Bulls history not named Keith Bogans) and Jo Jo English but they had to scramble to replace him with whatever they could find on short notice. Under those circumstances it's amazing the Bulls won 55 games. Could have won more if Pippen and Horace were completely healthy at the start of the season.

QFT :applause:

[3ball]

The Bulls in '94 had all kinds of challenges. The only consistent key guys from that title team were Pippen, Horace and BJ. Both Pippen and Horace Grant missed 10+ games that year. Pippen was dealing with a bum ankle that plagued him since '92 and trying to recover from offseason surgery which resulted in the slow start by the Bulls. Cartwright was on his last leg and only played half the season. Paxson was on his last leg and barely played. Scott Williams was injured most of the year. Just about all of the new faces (Kerr, Myers, Jo Jo English, Wennington, Longley, etc) on the Bulls were journeyman roleplayers that came from losing franchises...barely any playoff experience whatsoever and they had to learn the triange offense. Kukoc had trouble adjusting in his first year of the NBA. His defense was a sore spot, there was never any consistency in his play and his shooting was erratic. And maybe if Jordan hadn't made such a shit move of retiring 3 weeks before the season started the Bulls could have gotten better replacements than Pete Myers (probably the worst SG in Bulls history not named Keith Bogans) and Jo Jo English but they had to scramble to replace him with whatever they could find on short notice. Under those circumstances it's amazing the Bulls won 55 games. Could have won more if Pippen and Horace were completely healthy at the start of the season.
superior coaching and gameplan got them through the regular season, but reality set in when the playoffs rolled around...

despite the Kukoc miracle in Game 3 that prevented the Knicks from blowing them away, the Bulls still lost the series and ended up being an ordinary 2nd round exit team.

then Jordan came back and turned an ordinary 2nd round exit team into a 3-peat dynasty.. that's the effect of Jordan - ordinary 2nd round exit team to 3-peat dynasty... only the GOAT could do that.

and in 1996 and 1997, Jordan led the greatest offense of all time (highest team ORtg ever) despite playing 4 on 5 offensively due to Rodman averaging 3 PPG - only the greatest offensive player of all time could pull this off.

that's why Laimbeer said the Pistons never thought about anyone else - only Jordan:

BILL LAIMBEER: "We didn't even think about Scottie Pippen. It was Michael Jordan and the Jordannaires - and you can't win championships like that with only 1 player."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqC74bv46Z8&t=1h07m33s
.

[Prime_Shaq]

Pippen so severely underrated here. Hakeem had less help than Jordan during his title runs but that doesn't diminish Jordan's achievements. Jordan and Pippen formed the 2nd best 1-2 punch off all-time and the best perimeter defensive duo ever. They co-existed and needed each other to succeed. Jordan won 6 rings with good help. Some players can't even win 1 with good help. Jordan is the GOAT, most people don't even argue that. I don't even see the point for you to prop him up even more or diminish his teammates. Please do not give Jordan fans/Bull fans a bad name.

[3ball]

that's the effect of Jordan - turning an ordinary 2nd round exit team into a 3-peat dynasty... only the GOAT could do that.


Jordan was capable of doing this because his teammates' production didn't drop off upon his return - Jordan literally just added his GOAT production on top of what was already there.

anytime you add GOAT production to a team without diminishing what was already there, you can turn a good team, into the greatest team of all time.

no one can get GOAT production, nor can anyone fit into a team so seemlessly - Jordan did both.
.

[gts]

people actually take something Bill Laimbeer says seriously.. :lol

Just file this under more stupid stuff Bill Laimbeer says

[3ball]

people actually take something Bill Laimbeer says seriously.. :lol

Just file this under more stupid stuff Bill Laimbeer says
It's not just him - isiah and dumars said the same thing... and chuck daly... the entire Piston team felt this way.

Should we file away all their opinions as stupid stuff?

The stupid thing would be to ignore what he said, and replace it with your own unfounded opinion.

[navy]

Let's follow the logic here

Pippen > Durant. As said by 3ball.

Jordan 1-9 without Pippen

Jordan had the most help of all time and it isnt even close.

[Round Mound]

im pretty sure stockton/kj and other pure points are better as 2nd option to jordan.

:roll: :no:

Stockton Could Create For Others Shots...True
KJ Could Take Other PGs 1 on 1 and Drive...Yes

Pippen Did Those 2 Things...PLUS

-Was The Best Defensive SF of the 90s While Being...
-The Best Creator Of Offense: Passing and Timing Plays for the Bulls
-Among The Best Finishers in the Leage: Off a Fast Break or Whom Which He Could Create For Himself and Dunk or Pass, Not Just Finish...
-Among The Best Rebounding SFs
-Could Score 20-22 PPG on 47% FG
-Guard The Other Teams Best Offensive Player From 1 to 4s
etc

Pippen > KJ or Stockton.

Get F-Real.

[3ball]

Let's follow the logic here

Pippen > Durant. As said by 3ball.

Jordan 1-9 without Pippen

Jordan had the most help of all time and it isnt even close.
:facepalm ... I corrected that - here was the final list of top wing players in each era (each side listed in order for fair comparison):



..........TOP 10 WINGS (SG or SF)


...2000-2014...............1984-1998

Kobe Bryant............. Michael Jordan
LeBron James........... Larry Bird
Dwayne Wade........ Clyde Drexler
Kevin Durant.......... Dominique Wilkins
Tracey McGrady..... Grant Hill
James Harden........ Penny Hardaway
Paul Pierce.............. Scottie Pippen
Carmelo Anthony...... Adrian Dantley
Vince Carter.......... James Worthy
Allen Iverson........... Reggie Miller



HM 1984-1998: Dr. J, Latrell Sprewell, Sidney Moncrief, Mitch Richmond, Joe Dumars, Alvin Robertson, Dennis Johnson, Ronaldo Blackman, Dennis Rodman, Alex English, Chris Mullin, Glen Rice, Kiki Vandeweghe, Mark Aguirre, Glenn Robinson, Jamaal Mashburn, Detlef Schrempf, Reggie Lewis, Fat Lever, Jeff Hornacek, Allan Houston, Eddie Jones, Jeff Malone

HM 2000-2014: Ray Allen, Paul George, Manu Ginobili, Brandon Roy, Joe Johnson, Rip Hamilton, Gilbert Arenas, Ron Artest, Shawn Marion, Michael Redd, Peja Stojakovic, Antawn Jamison, Luol Deng, Rashard Lewis
.

[navy]

Nope, the fact that you made such a statement means that it is at least arguable.

Most help of all time. 1-9 without a player comparable to Durant.

[DatAsh]

Chuck Daly: Pippen was a superstar in the making, I knew our days were numbered when the Bulls got him. (from Halberstom's MJ book. Daly saw the Bulls would surge past Detroit once Pippen realized his potential with experience)

Michael Jordan: "When I said (in 1995) that Scottie was the best player in the league I meant it."

MJ also compared Pippen to Magic and Bird as achieving a "certain level of greatness."

:cheers:

This. Pippen was the reason they eventually toppled the Pistons. Not that he was as good as Jordan or anything, but Jordan was already great, and Pippen's improvement is what made the difference.

[3ball]

Pippen could Score 20-22 PPG on 47% FG


again, Pippen is a nice player to have, but having a 20 PPG teammate isn't beating the world.

MJ didn't have two stars in Wade and Bosh.. or Kareem and Worthy... or McHale/Parish/DJ... or Ginobili and Parker and Kawhi.

Jordan only had one star in Pippen.... that's why he had to produce the most offense of any player ever (as measured by points + assists) and the most CLUTCH of any player ever...

That's why as Laimbeer said, the entire Piston team felt it was Jordan and the Jordanaires...
.

[DatAsh]

I give MJ a ton of credit for making adjustments to his game to allow his teammates to flourish. Nobody has won in league history going 1-on-5.

1-on-5 is always an exaggeration, but it's crazy how far Jordan was able to push those Piston teams in the late 80s before Pippen really became a star. He gave them their only 2 losses in 89 and 3 of their 5 losses in 90. Those teams were making mincemeat of the other top teams, yet they struggled to contain one guy, and that was with basically their entire defense zeroed in on him.

Once Pippen turned into a superstar, the league just didn't stand a chance.

[RRR3]

again, Pippen is a nice player to have, but having a 20 PPG teammate isn't beating the world.

MJ didn't have two stars in Wade and Bosh.. or Kareem and Worthy... or McHale/Parish/DJ... or Ginobili and Parker and Kawhi.

Jordan only had one star in Pippen.... that's why he had to produce the most offense of any player ever (as measured by points + assists) and the most CLUTCH of any player ever...

That's why as Laimbeer said, the entire Piston team felt it was Jordan and the Jordanaires...
.
How many allstars was Kobe playing with in 2009-10? By your logic, Kobe should be ranked pretty damn high.

[3ball]

How many allstars was Kobe playing with in 2009-10? By your logic, Kobe should be ranked pretty damn high.
and he is... rightfully so.

he didn't have to dominate as much as Jordan to win his rings however, because he had a dominant post presence.

the stats bear that out, especially the Finals stats, which show Jordan scoring a whopping 10 more PPG than Kobe or Lebron (34 PPG to 24 PPG).

[IGOTGAME]

Scottie Pippen was drafted 5th overall from a Division 2 school. Let that sink in. There was obviously something very special about him. Jordan didnt make that

[knicksman]

:roll: :no:

Stockton Could Create For Others Shots...True
KJ Could Take Other PGs 1 on 1 and Drive...Yes

Pippen Did Those 2 Things...PLUS

-Was The Best Defensive SF of the 90s While Being...
-The Best Creator Of Offense: Passing and Timing Plays for the Bulls
-Among The Best Finishers in the Leage: Off a Fast Break or Whom Which He Could Create For Himself and Dunk or Pass, Not Just Finish...
-Among The Best Rebounding SFs
-Could Score 20-22 PPG on 47% FG
-Guard The Other Teams Best Offensive Player From 1 to 4s
etc

Pippen > KJ or Stockton.

Get F-Real.

the best fit for a scorer is a pg. Thats how kareem looked prime despite being 36 years old same for malone. And pippen wasnt the best pg in the league.

[sportjames23]

Scottie Pippen was drafted 5th overall from a Division 2 school. Let that sink in. There was obviously something very special about him. Jordan didnt make that


Scottie was a raw talent. Very raw.

I remember his rookie season. He didn't start. Hell, Horace Grant started before he did (and the Bulls traded away Charles Oakley--the NBA's leading rebounder--for Bill Cartwright, allowing the slightly younger Grant to take his role). Scottie didn't make strides until he started practicing with MJ. Now, Scottie initiated this from everything I've ever read about it. But, MJ helped Scottie become the player he did, and Scottie even admits this.

[TheMan]

:applause:

It iI funny how one Laimbeer quote is being hyped but what Chuck Daly thought is ignored. Daly knew Detroit was done when he saw young Pippen on the court. He knew Chicago had a future superstar and the Bulls would bury the Pistons when he grew into that potential.

If the claims made about MJ are accurate none of this would be needed. His actual record would suffice. This guy is claiming MJ won with little help. :roll:

We saw MJ's "record" before Pippen became a top player. :lol
You dumbfvck, you think if the roles were reversed and Pippen was drafted in 84 and Jordan in 87 that Pippen would've fared any better than Jordan? Yeah, Pippen gonna lead the 85 and 86 Bulls past Larry's Celtics, :facepalm You can put prime LeBron on those 85 or 86 Bulls and they ain't beating those Celtics either not even close, those Celtics are easily one of the greatest teams in NBA history.

Is it really that hard to understand that MJ couldn't beat a legendary team by himself (he didn't have an All Star teammate in 85 nor 86 and the Celtics were loaded with HOFers). I said it a million times, Jordan was an elite player early in his career, he just didn't have a team around him ready to compete at the highest level. It's only when Pippen and Grant finally developed that the Bulls were ready to compete. But yeah, let's give all the credit to Pippen :rolleyes:

Fvcking pathetic Bran stans with their agenda :facepalm

[sportjames23]

Roundball_Rock is a fake ass Bulls fan.

I've never seen anyone who claims to be a fan of a team shit on that franchise's greatest player.

Just rep a Lebron avy, bitch.

[andgar923]

Scottie was a raw talent. Very raw.

I remember his rookie season. He didn't start. Hell, Horace Grant started before he did (and the Bulls traded away Charles Oakley--the NBA's leading rebounder--for Bill Cartwright, allowing the slightly younger Grant to take his role). Scottie didn't make strides until he started practicing with MJ. Now, Scottie initiated this from everything I've ever read about it. But, MJ helped Scottie become the player he did, and Scottie even admits this.

Some of these idiots don't get that.

They don't understand how a player can help somebody else get better because there's no recent example of that. They are losers with a loser mentality that don't understand what true leadership is.

But aside from the skill level (which most players coming into the league have), MJ changed Pip's mentality which can be far more important. Almost every Bulls player has stated how MJ pushed them to becoming champions. They emphasize his will and competitive nature as driving them to excel.

But some of these posters would never understand this because they lacked that in their own lives.

[TheMan]

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2011/03/scottie_pippen_takes_shots_at.html

Pippen called Laimbeer "not a real athlete a couple of years ago."

Pippen won multiple playoffs series without Jordan.
:facepalm

Your point is that Pippen > Jordan then right?

I hate this stupid argument, it makes no sense at all. Jordan was drafted by a franchise with no history of winning titles before him, he was a lottery pick. By the time Pippen was drafted, (actually, he was drafted by Seattle and traded to the Bulls for Olden Polynice, lol), the Bulls were an up and coming team on the strength of having by then the most talented player in the world in MJ. He was drafted alongside another promising rookie in Grant. While Pippen was developing, he got to play alongside Jordan, compare that to Jordan when he was young, old man Gervin and cokehead Woolridge were his best teammates:oldlol: Entirely different situations.

Then MJ retired after the first threepeat, Pip, Grant, Armstrong were in their prime, add Kukoc and Kerr and Cleveland hit with injuries, they won a playoffs series without MJ. In 98 when Jordan retired again, Pippen was traded to Houston where he played with Barkley and Olajuwon but they were one and done by the Lakers. He then went to the loaded Blazers where he won some playoffs series but never getting to the Finals. Jordan, OTOH, returned from retirement as a broken old man and played with a not so talented Washington Wizards. Their careers outside the Bulls were way different, not even comparable so this crap about Pippen being more successful without Jordan is a crap argument when you put it in context.

If Jordan chose the Knicks in 95 as a still useful player to return to basketball for example, I'm pretty sure he would've led the Knicks to a few titles without Pippen...MJ, Patrick Ewing, Charles Oakley and led by Pat Riley, yeah it's a pretty safe bet.

[sportjames23]

Some of these idiots don't get that.

They don't understand how a player can help somebody else get better because there's no recent example of that. They are losers with a loser mentality that don't understand what true leadership is.

But aside from the skill level (which most players coming into the league have), MJ changed Pip's mentality which can be far more important. Almost every Bulls player has stated how MJ pushed them to becoming champions. They emphasize his will and competitive nature as driving them to excel.

But some of these posters would never understand this because they lacked that in their own lives.


Exactly.

[sportjames23]

:facepalm

Your point is that Pippen > Jordan then right?

I hate this stupid argument, it makes no sense at all. Jordan was drafted by a franchise with no history of winning titles before him, he was a lottery pick. By the time Pippen was drafted, (actually, he was drafted by Seattle and traded to the Bulls for Olden Polynice, lol), the Bulls were an up and coming team on the strength of having by then the most talented player in the world in MJ. He was drafted alongside another promising rookie in Grant. While Pippen was developing, he got to play alongside Jordan, compare that to Jordan when he was young, old man Gervin and cokehead Woolridge were his best teammates:oldlol: Entirely different situations.

Then MJ retired after the first threepeat, Pip, Grant, Armstrong were in their prime, add Kukoc and Kerr and Cleveland hit with injuries, they won a playoffs series without MJ. In 98 when Jordan retired again, Pippen was traded to Houston where he played with Barkley and Olajuwon but they were one and done by the Lakers. He then went to the loaded Blazers where he won some playoffs series but never getting to the Finals. Jordan, OTOH, returned from retirement as a broken old man and played with a not so talented Washington Wizards. Their careers outside the Bulls were way different, not even comparable so this crap about Pippen being more successful without Jordan is a crap argument when you put it in context.

If Jordan chose the Knicks in 95 as a still useful player to return to basketball for example, I'm pretty sure he would've led the Knicks to a few titles without Pippen...MJ, Patrick Ewing, Charles Oakley and led by Pat Riley, yeah it's a pretty safe bet.


Notice how Rock and all the haters that push this bullshit never acknowledge that Pippen played on very good teams when MJ retired (94 Bulls, 99 Rockets, 2000s Blazers). Hell, that Blazers team was STACKED, and Pip couldn't lead them past a Lakers team that previously underachieved.

[TheMan]

1990: Detroit champs, Bulls ECSF
1991: Detroit champs, Bulls ECF
1992: Detroit Finals, Bulls ECSF
1993: Detroit ECSF, Bulls ECF
1994: MJ retired.

Detroit would have kept owning MJ with Pip on the Pistons instead of the Bulls. Be grateful for what Pip helped MJ achieve.
You annoying fggot, if we're gonna play that game, how about if Pippen was drafted by Detroit then let's play that if game and Jordan gets sick of waiting around and jumps ship like your hero LeJourneyman and he goes his buddy Patrick Ewing and the Knicks, problem solved. MJ's Knicks annually buttfvck Pippen's decrypit Pistons...:oldlol:

[TheMan]

Let's follow the logic here

Pippen > Durant. As said by 3ball.

Jordan 1-9 without Pippen

Jordan had the most help of all time and it isnt even close.
LeBron played with another FMVP top 3 league player, Magic played with multiple All Stars, Larry had the GOAT frontline, Russell played with muliple HOFers...GTFOH

[mehyaM24]

4-5 HOFers, including one of the greatest international talents ever, the greatest 3PT shooter (statistically), the greatest rebounder (modern), the greatest coach, and the greatest perimeter defender/best playmaker & leader/co-captain of the bulls...

and yet, jordan fans are in here trying to diminish his teammates. :oldlol: not gonna happen when there is game tape of what ACTUALLY happened.

[Jlamb47]

Jordan Team Was Stacked And Everyone Knows It
Jordan Still Goat Tho But He Had Hella Help Lol

[triangleoffense]

Apparently MJ and Scottie Pippen were hyper competitive on and off the court. They would go to clubs and battle to see who get **** the hottest chick, how many chicks would ask to come home with them in one night, etc. All in the name of competition. On this count, MJ could usually get the best of Pippen because he was the most famous. But, it just so happened that whenever Madonna was in town she would always **** Pippen and ignore MJ. This made MJ livid. He would always put the moves on Madonna but she would shoot him down in favor of Pippen. Finally she told MJ why: Pippen's enormous package. That's something MJ just couldn't compete with.
lol gtfo fake story

[TheMan]

Notice how Rock and all the haters that push this bullshit never acknowledge that Pippen played on very good teams when MJ retired (94 Bulls, 99 Rockets, 2000s Blazers). Hell, that Blazers team was STACKED, and Pip couldn't lead them past a Lakers team that previously underachieved.
Yeah, I hate to rag on Pippen because he was one of the biggest reasons the Bulls became a dynasty. On one hand you have 3Ball kind of diminishing what he did and on the other you have Roundball Rock exaggerating what Pip did, as if Jordan didn't drag the Bulls to titles, like in 98 when Pip was injured and not contributing like he normally did, for example.

According to RR and the rest of the Bran stans, it was Pippen doing the heavy lifting, lol

I understand why they do this though, Jordan set the bar so high and LeBron isn't anywhere near that so they need to knock MJ a peg or two so that their boy has a chance to sniff MJ's level. It's so transparent, like the retarded notion Mitch Richmond would win multiple rings replacing Jordan :roll:

[andgar923]

Yeah, I hate to rag on Pippen because he was one of the biggest reasons the Bulls became a dynasty. On one hand you have 3Ball kind of diminishing what he did and on the other you have Roundball Rock exaggerating what Pip did, as if Jordan didn't drag the Bulls to titles, like in 98 when Pip was injured and not contributing like he normally did, for example.

According to RR and the rest of the Bran stans, it was Pippen doing the heavy lifting, lol

I understand why they do this though, Jordan set the bar so high and LeBron isn't anywhere near that so they need to knock MJ a peg or two so that their boy has a chance to sniff MJ's level. It's so transparent, like the retarded notion Mitch Richmond would win multiple rings replacing Jordan :roll:

Couldn't make this stuff up man, pure comedy.:roll:

[TheMan]

4-5 HOFers, including one of the greatest international talents ever, the greatest 3PT shooter (statistically), the greatest rebounder (modern), the greatest coach, and the greatest perimeter defender/best playmaker & leader/co-captain of the bulls...

and yet, jordan fans are in here trying to diminish his teammates. :oldlol: not gonna happen when there is game tape of what ACTUALLY happened.
4 or 5 HOFers? Jordan played with 4 or 5? Name them...

Dis gon' be gud :oldlol: In b4 Robert Parish:lol

You do realize PJax previous job before become Bulls coach was the Albany Patroons, right? He was FAAAR from an established coach when he took over, stop acting like he was an elite coach when he took over. And about Kerr, he was a great RS three point shooter but he struggled (to put it mildly) in those Jazz series...post his PPG and 3pt FG% if you dare :oldlol:

[mehyaM24]

jordan fans (claiming mj had the LEAST amount of help of any goat candidate)
vs
90s bulls fans, who were there to watch ATT (97 bulls, RR, etc)

hmmm. thats a tough one.. :oldlol:

[kshutts1]

Jordan was a phenomenal player but, let's remember, he is still human.

Someone said Jordan is the most recent/only example of one player teaching another/a whole team? Are you serious? WTF? Duncan? Lebron? Pippen on Blazers? Paul? Kobe? Pretty much EVERY great does this.

Mitch Richmond, one of the best SGs from the 90s, wouldn't win a title with the exact same circumstances that Jordan had? Are you kidding me? After the first three-peat, the Bulls were so good that they had Pete Myers (yes, the same Pete Myers that averaged 8/3/2 in a starting role) in Jordan's place and were title contenders all year. Now you're trying to tell me that a top 5 SG from that era wouldn't be the difference? And that's just one year. Maybe in '96 the Bulls don't win 72 games with Richmond, and don't steamroll through the playoffs, but they still win the title. Same with the next year. He, as a direct Jordan replacement, is easily good enough to get a minimum of four titles.

And lastly, we're taking one player's word that the team didn't worry about Pippen? And that one player was in the league for a whole two years while Pippen was actually good? And even if the Pistons didn't worry about Pippen while Pippen was good.. anyone consider that may be why they lost?

I'm all for people being fans of players. But the ridiculous levels of hyperbole reached by Jordan fans is just ludicrous. Dude was a man. A human being. Put in to one of the best situations in sports history, both from a team perspective and from a league perspective. Not to diminish Jordan's greatness; he's still a top tier talent. But he's not untouchable. He's not the best at everything.

And christ... all the Pippen/Lebron fans out there... also keep it real. Pippen was ridiculously good, and one of the best "what if" players ever. But he was NOT on Jordan's level. Period. End of dicussion.

[TheMan]

jordan fans (claiming mj had the LEAST amount of help of any goat candidate)
vs
90s bulls fans, who were there to watch ATT (97 bulls, RR, etc)

hmmm. thats a tough one.. :oldlol:
I go back to the Reggie Theus days fggot. I was a Bulls fan PRIOR to MJ.

But stop ignoring my question and name the 4 or 5 HOFers MJ played with. I'll laugh in your face if you name Robert Parish as one of them.

Go ahead and post the other Bulls players postseason stats while you're at it, aside from Pip, there's a big drop off. The Bulls, especially in the later years, won with defense and rebounding, and MJ taking over in the fourth quarter.

Yeah, but Mitch Richmond would replicate that :roll:

[mehyaM24]

I go back to the Reggie Theus days fggot. I was a Bulls fan PRIOR to MJ.

But stop ignoring my question and name the 4 or 5 HOFers MJ played with. I'll laugh in your face if you name Robert Parish as one of them.

Go ahead and post the other Bulls players postseason stats while you're at it, aside from Pip, there's a big drop off. The Bulls, especially in the later years, won with defense and rebounding, and MJ taking over in the fourth quarter.

Yeah, but Mitch Richmond would replicate that :roll:
no you don't.

but anyway - rodman/grant/kukoc/pippen/phil = HOFers. remember, HOFers aren't specifically known for their nba careers.

:oldlol: and yeah, how silly of me.. there's NO WAY the 2nd best sg of that decade can win 3-4 titles with one of the greatest dynasties ever..

[TheMan]

Jordan was a phenomenal player but, let's remember, he is still human.

Someone said Jordan is the most recent/only example of one player teaching another/a whole team? Are you serious? WTF? Duncan? Lebron? Pippen on Blazers? Paul? Kobe? Pretty much EVERY great does this.

Mitch Richmond, one of the best SGs from the 90s, wouldn't win a title with the exact same circumstances that Jordan had? Are you kidding me? After the first three-peat, the Bulls were so good that they had Pete Myers (yes, the same Pete Myers that averaged 8/3/2 in a starting role) in Jordan's place and were title contenders all year. Now you're trying to tell me that a top 5 SG from that era wouldn't be the difference? And that's just one year. Maybe in '96 the Bulls don't win 72 games with Richmond, and don't steamroll through the playoffs, but they still win the title. Same with the next year. He, as a direct Jordan replacement, is easily good enough to get a minimum of four titles.

And lastly, we're taking one player's word that the team didn't worry about Pippen? And that one player was in the league for a whole two years while Pippen was actually good? And even if the Pistons didn't worry about Pippen while Pippen was good.. anyone consider that may be why they lost?

I'm all for people being fans of players. But the ridiculous levels of hyperbole reached by Jordan fans is just ludicrous. Dude was a man. A human being. Put in to one of the best situations in sports history, both from a team perspective and from a league perspective. Not to diminish Jordan's greatness; he's still a top tier talent. But he's not untouchable. He's not the best at everything.

And christ... all the Pippen/Lebron fans out there... also keep it real. Pippen was ridiculously good, and one of the best "what if" players ever. But he was NOT on Jordan's level. Period. End of dicussion.
Rchmond MIGHT win one, four? GTFOH:roll:

[OldSchoolBBall]

No lie, these cats are fvcking delusional with their 3-5 titles claims. Wow. :roll: :roll:

[mehyaM24]

Jordan was a phenomenal player but, let's remember, he is still human.

Someone said Jordan is the most recent/only example of one player teaching another/a whole team? Are you serious? WTF? Duncan? Lebron? Pippen on Blazers? Paul? Kobe? Pretty much EVERY great does this.

Mitch Richmond, one of the best SGs from the 90s, wouldn't win a title with the exact same circumstances that Jordan had? Are you kidding me? After the first three-peat, the Bulls were so good that they had Pete Myers (yes, the same Pete Myers that averaged 8/3/2 in a starting role) in Jordan's place and were title contenders all year. Now you're trying to tell me that a top 5 SG from that era wouldn't be the difference? And that's just one year. Maybe in '96 the Bulls don't win 72 games with Richmond, and don't steamroll through the playoffs, but they still win the title. Same with the next year. He, as a direct Jordan replacement, is easily good enough to get a minimum of four titles.

And lastly, we're taking one player's word that the team didn't worry about Pippen? And that one player was in the league for a whole two years while Pippen was actually good? And even if the Pistons didn't worry about Pippen while Pippen was good.. anyone consider that may be why they lost?

I'm all for people being fans of players. But the ridiculous levels of hyperbole reached by Jordan fans is just ludicrous. Dude was a man. A human being. Put in to one of the best situations in sports history, both from a team perspective and from a league perspective. Not to diminish Jordan's greatness; he's still a top tier talent. But he's not untouchable. He's not the best at everything.

And christ... all the Pippen/Lebron fans out there... also keep it real. Pippen was ridiculously good, and one of the best "what if" players ever. But he was NOT on Jordan's level. Period. End of dicussion.

what a surprise, a non-jordan zealot actually saying mitch richmond, the second best sg of the 90s, would win MULTIPLE titles with the dynasty bulls.. :oldlol:

been trying to tell jordan fans they're the ONLY idiots who think differently :oldlol:

[kshutts1]

Rchmond MIGHT win one, four? GTFOH:roll:
Win as convincingly as Jordan? No.

But some things to keep in mind...

We were not asked if Richmond would lead the team
We were not asked if Bulls would still have their incredible win totals
We were not asked if none of the Finals would go 7 games
We were not asked if all of the playoff series would be closer

Short answer? Richmond makes the Bulls worse. Clearly worse. But they were so, so SO dominating that they COULD BE clearly worse and STILL win.

The Bulls never had a game 7 in the Finals. That means that anyone replacing Jordan would get, in theory, an extra game. Jordan's Bulls won 4/6 at worst. The replacement could win "only" 4/7 and still have the same end result. That's an oft-overlooked "fact", IMO.

[TheMan]

no you don't.

but anyway - rodman/grant/kukoc/pippen/phil = HOFers. remember, HOFers aren't specifically known for their nba careers.

:oldlol: and yeah, how silly of me.. there's NO WAY the 2nd best sg of that decade can win 3-4 titles with one of the greatest dynasties ever..
Yes I do, I'm 46 you dumb fvck. I remember the 83 pennant winning White Sox, I went to Mount Carmel High School when Tony Furjanic was the star LB, anyone around my age from Chicago will know who he was. I was a Chicago Sting fan, I remember when Cubs broadcaster Jack Brickhouse called home runs Dave Kingman hit, I remember when Harry Caray and Jimmy Piersall called White Sox games on channel 44. I remember when Denis Savard and the Sutter brothers played for the Blackhawks. These names will mean nothing to you but any Chicagoans around my age will recognize them.

Like I said, I'm a Bulls fan prior to Jordan, you're full of shit, you're a young punk that knows nothing about basketball. I lol at who you consider HOFers on the Bulls. MJ only played with two, how is that the greatest help ever???GTFOH:oldlol:

[LeBird]

No lie, these cats are fvcking delusional with their 3-5 titles claims. Wow. :roll: :roll:

It's about time you stop pretending this doesn't bother you when you're in every thread flailing about it.

[TheMan]

Just to add, LeBron will have played with more HOFers and have way less titles than MJ...dat help:oldlol:

Shaq, Pat Riley (you named PJax), Wade, Allen, Bosh (you named Grant, lol) and prolly KLove too since your threshold is so low now :oldlol:
:facepalm

[mehyaM24]

:oldlol: @ 46 year olds behaving like petulant children in any topic regarding jordan and lebron. yeah..not buying it.

BTW, phil is a definitive HOFer as is kukoc, for the simple fact what he did overseas (and what he was cabable of doing night in and out with the bulls).

[LeBird]

of course jordan needed pippen to win his rings... that goes without saying and isn't the point..

the point is that jordan still had the worst supporting talent of any star to win multiple rings.. it's not even close.

which is why his stats and performance had to be GOAT.

as for calling the bulls a one-man team.. again, that's not why I said.. that's what LAIMBEER said (among many others).
.

I don't know what's worse...your campaign as MJ the GOAT off-the-ball player (delusional) or the above...which is just nuts. This is a team that was a title contender even without Jordan. Lebron, Magic, Bird, Hakeem and Duncan's teams just since 1980 have all won titles with less help relatively. Jordan's Bulls were the standout talent in their winning decade, it wasn't even close.

Do you actually believe the bullshit you spew?

[Jlamb47]

Just to add, LeBron will have played with more HOFers and have way less titles than MJ...dat help:oldlol:

Shaq, Pat Riley (you named PJax), Wade, Allen, Bosh (you named Grant, lol) and prolly KLove too since your threshold is so low now :oldlol:
:facepalm
Irving

[JohnnySic]

Well no crap. The Pistons/Bulls battles were before Pippen truly became relevant.
Came in to say this. In 1990, Pippen wasn't close to his peak yet. '91 was the year he "arrived", coincidentally.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Just to add, LeBron will have played with more HOFers and have way less titles than MJ...dat help:oldlol:

Shaq, Pat Riley (you named PJax), Wade, Allen, Bosh (you named Grant, lol) and prolly KLove too since your threshold is so low now :oldlol:
:facepalm

In all fairness, Shaq didn't play like a HOFer w/ LeBron. Dude was well past his prime.

As well, Grant >>> Bosh .... I would take Grant's rebounding and defense in the paint over that soft dinosaur any day

[TheMan]

Win as convincingly as Jordan? No.

But some things to keep in mind...

We were not asked if Richmond would lead the team
We were not asked if Bulls would still have their incredible win totals
We were not asked if none of the Finals would go 7 games
We were not asked if all of the playoff series would be closer

Short answer? Richmond makes the Bulls worse. Clearly worse. But they were so, so SO dominating that they COULD BE clearly worse and STILL win.

The Bulls never had a game 7 in the Finals. That means that anyone replacing Jordan would get, in theory, an extra game. Jordan's Bulls won 4/6 at worst. The replacement could win "only" 4/7 and still have the same end result. That's an oft-overlooked "fact", IMO.
This guy :oldlol:

They were so dominating because along with having a bunch of good role players, a top 5-10 player, they had the head and shoulders above the rest best player in the world.Take the most dominant player away and they're still a good club but second round fodder like in '94. Add him and they are a threepeat dynasty. How is that so hard to understand. That's like taking Shaq away from the 00-04 Lakers and replacing him with Alonzo Mourning and expecting them to win multiple titles :oldlol: The Lakers were dominant because they had peak Shaq along with an up and coming Kobe, replace him with a lesser player and they aren't so dominant anymore because you're taking away the most dominant player in the game.

Any of you fools who don't think MJ dominated the 90s need to get your heads checked.

[LeBird]

Not only do people underrate Pippen; they underrate Rodman...a lot.

That rate of rebounding is such an outlier it is more impressive than Jordan's scoring. There is a great statistical case for Rodman to be considered one of the greatest players of all time because of the efficacy of his defensive play.

Great site about it: http://skepticalsports.com/?page_id=1222

[TheMan]

In all fairness, Shaq didn't play like a HOFer w/ LeBron. Dude was well past his prime.

As well, Grant >>> Bosh .... I would take Grant's rebounding and defense in the paint over that soft dinosaur any day
Yeah I'd take Grant too, even Oakley over Bosh but a couple of things. Bron's game dictated Bosh becoming an outside shooter or else he'd clog up the lane, second point, Bosh is considered the superior player, look at how many All Stars he has compared to just one for Grant. They put a bigger premium on scoring than defense and rebounding, it's always been that way.

[SugarHill]

Just to add, LeBron will have played with more HOFers and have way less titles than MJ...dat help:oldlol:

Shaq, Pat Riley (you named PJax), Wade, Allen, Bosh (you named Grant, lol) and prolly KLove too since your threshold is so low now :oldlol:
:facepalm
:roll:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Yeah I'd take Grant too, even Oakley over Bosh but a couple of things. Bron's game dictated Bosh becoming an outside shooter or else he'd clog up the lane, second point, Bosh is considered the superior player, look at how many All Stars he has compared to just one for Grant. They put a bigger premium on scoring than defense and rebounding, it's always been that way.

It shouldn't be that way, though, which is why you TOO would take Grant over Bosh alone for his toughness. Hah

Grant has better intangibles with skills more conducive to championship basketball. Bosh is a good player BUT his scoring has always been hit and miss, especially in the postseason.

[kshutts1]

This guy :oldlol:

They were so dominating because along with having a bunch of good role players, a top 5-10 player, they had the head and shoulders above the rest best player in the world.Take the most dominant player away and they're still a good club but second round fodder like in '94. Add him and they are a threepeat dynasty. How is that so hard to understand. That's like taking Shaq away from the 00-04 Lakers and replacing him with Alonzo Mourning and expecting them to win multiple titles :oldlol: The Lakers were dominant because they had peak Shaq along with an up and coming Kobe, replace him with a lesser player and they aren't so dominant anymore because you're taking away the most dominant player in the game.

Any of you fools who don't think MJ dominated the 90s need to get your heads checked.
Fodder? Maybe it's the appropriate word, but it has such a negative connotation I can't get past that. They lost in the second round, but I'd hardly consider them "second round fodder".

And I never said they would be AS dominant. I said they would still win multiple titles.
And honestly, taking peak Shaq off the Lakers and adding in peak Mourning likely would result in multiple titles... again, just not in a dominating fashion.

Again, the question was not "will the Bulls be as dominant with Richmond instead of Jordan" but rather would they still win.

[TheMan]

I don't know what's worse...your campaign as MJ the GOAT off-the-ball player (delusional) or the above...which is just nuts. This is a team that was a title contender even without Jordan. Lebron, Magic, Bird, Hakeem and Duncan's teams just since 1980 have all won titles with less help relatively. Jordan's Bulls were the standout talent in their winning decade, it wasn't even close.

Do you actually believe the bullshit you spew?
You're straight trolling now bro. The 80s Lakers and Celtics are the epitome of stacked teams, GTFOH. Duncan to a lesser extent but in his 5 chips, he didn't win FMVP in two of them. Jordan had to be the best player for the Bulls to win their 6 chips. LeBron played with a one time FMVP and prolly cost him a second when he shit the bed vs the Mavs.

I'm not saying MJ had no help but to say he had easily the most ever is ridiculous. Russell alone played with half a dozen HOFers :facepalm

[Roundball_Rock]

:oldlol: at MJ stans invoking "second round" while ignoring how MJ sabotaged the team by retiring so late. How far does that team go with a legitimate starting SG...

The 80's Lakers and 80's Celtics were stacked but relative to a league where there were other stacked teams. It was a smaller league. When Bird got hurt for 76 games the Celtics became a 42 win first round team (after making the Finals the previous year). The Lakers went from the Finals to 43 wins and the first round without Magic. Same for the Heat without LeBron. The only time a team has lost a GOAT-caliber player and remained elite was the Bulls in 94'.

[TheMan]

It shouldn't be that way, though, which is why you TOO would take Grant over Bosh alone for his toughness. Hah

Grant has better intangibles with skills more conducive to championship basketball. Bosh is a good player BUT his scoring has always been hit and miss, especially in the postseason.
Go tell that to Bran, he should've colluded with a tough rebounding PF instead. He wanted to play with Bosh and Wade...

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Go tell that to Bran, he should've colluded with a tough rebounding PF instead. He wanted to play with Bosh and Wade...

Word. Players make the worst GMs. Not surprisingly (see: Jordan)

[sportjames23]

Word. Players make the worst GMs. Not surprisingly (see: Jordan)


Nigguh, why you had to go there? :mad:

You still my dude doe.

[TheMan]

:oldlol: at MJ stans invoking "second round" while ignoring how MJ sabotaged the team by retiring so late. How far does that team go with a legitimate starting SG...

The 80's Lakers and 80's Celtics were stacked but relative to a league where there were other stacked teams. It was a smaller league. When Bird got hurt for 76 games the Celtics became a 42 win first round team (after making the Finals the previous year). The Lakers went from the Finals to 43 wins and the first round without Magic. Same for the Heat without LeBron. The only time a team has lost a GOAT-caliber player and remained elite was the Bulls in 94'.
Elite? Losing in the second round is now elite, :oldlol:

Why don't you tell us how the elite Bulls were doing in '95 before Jordan returned and the after he returned?:oldlol:

About the 80s, what other stacked teams were there besides the Lakers and Celtics? The Sixers were great in the early part of the 80s and the Pistons and to a lesser extent the Blazers but most the 80s was all about the Celtics and Lakers. Either of those teams were in almost all the Finals in the 80s except for the Detroit Portland Finals...

[LeBird]

You're straight trolling now bro. The 80s Lakers and Celtics are the epitome of stacked teams, GTFOH. Duncan to a lesser extent but in his 5 chips, he didn't win FMVP in two of them. Jordan had to be the best player for the Bulls to win their 6 chips. LeBron played with a one time FMVP and prolly cost him a second when he shit the bed vs the Mavs.

I'm not saying MJ had no help but to say he had easily the most ever is ridiculous. Russell alone played with half a dozen HOFers :facepalm

Do you know what 'relative' means?

It means even though the 80s had stacked teams, they had to face other stacked teams so 'help' is relative.

Whereas in the 90s there was a clear standout team and no other team came close. The Jazz were probably Jordan's best competition in the title winning years and they were old and actually better in the 80s. :lol

I don't think any player has had a more favourable circumstance than Jordan. The Celtics, Lakers, Spurs, Heat, etc, all went to pot without their stars. The Bulls only lost 2 games less by essentially replacing Jordan with a D-League player.

[TheMan]

Word. Players make the worst GMs. Not surprisingly (see: Jordan)
Jerry West says hi

[mehyaM24]

I don't think any player has had a more favourable circumstance than Jordan. The Celtics, Lakers, Spurs, Heat, etc, all went to pot without their stars. The Bulls only lost 2 games less by essentially replacing Jordan with a D-League player.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[kshutts1]

Jerry West says hi
Not picking on you, but I've always wondered why people, mostly on this message board, use one item/individual/thing to argue against a statement.

You have Jerry West? The other camp has Jordan, Thomas, and probably others.

No matter what the truth is, there will always be an exception. How does invoking Jerry West's name prove that players make good GMs? IF the statement was "Players are NEVER good GMs" then I understand. But that was not the statement.

Man, I gotta log off ISH before I have a "meltdown "thread related to myself...

[TheMan]

Do you know what 'relative' means?

It means even though the 80s had stacked teams, they had to face other stacked teams so 'help' is relative.

Whereas in the 90s there was a clear standout team and no other team came close. The Jazz were probably Jordan's best competition in the title winning years and they were old and actually better in the 80s. :lol

I don't think any player has had a more favourable circumstance than Jordan. The Celtics, Lakers, Spurs, Heat, etc, all went to pot without their stars. The Bulls only lost 2 games less by essentially replacing Jordan with a D-League player.
In the end, the RS means little. You think us Bulls fans tout the 60+ winning season in 2010-11? The Mavs won the title, no one gives a shit the Bulls won 60 that year...

The Bulls got exposed in the 94 playoffs, this controversial call happened in GM 5, they still could've won the series, you guys make it seem like it happened in GM 7 and the Bulls had no chance to recover :facepalm

Without MJ they were still a good team but they weren't elite, anyone who thinks that is nuts. OTOH, I guess I can call those 60 wins 10-11 Bulls elite! :rockon: :oldlol:

[Roundball_Rock]

Elite? Losing in the second round is now elite, :oldlol:


It depends on a team's overall performance. For example, the 2014 Clippers were clearly an elite team despite losing in the second round. The 94' Bulls finished only 2 games from the #1 seed and then fought the East champ to a draw. This wasn't a 47 win team that got demolished in the second round.

Thanks, LeBird. Those teams had several peers. The 80's Celtics and Showtime Lakers barely won 40 games without Bird and Magic.


I don't think any player has had a more favourable circumstance than Jordan. The Celtics, Lakers, Spurs, Heat, etc, all went to pot without their stars. The Bulls only lost 2 games less by essentially replacing Jordan with a D-League player.

:lol

It infuriates them because it is true and they desperately don't want it to be. He also had exquisite timing to avoid the rise of the Shaq-Kobe Lakers, Spurs dynasties and for his team to hit its stride as the Lakers and Celtics fell. Only Detroit overlapped with Chicago--and they were out of gas by 91'.

It is a shame. Orlando could have been that team but Shaq left.


I guess I can call those 60 wins 10-11 Bulls elite!

They were elite. A legitimate title contender is "elite" in my book. Chicago was that in 11'.

The 94' Bulls would also be a 60+ win team if they had a legitimate NBA starter at SG. Heck, they were on a 63 win pace when both Pippen and Grant played. Can you imagine if they were healthy and Chicago lost the "greatest of all-time", replaced him with a D-leaguer and then improved to 62-64 wins? :roll:

[3ball]

.
Jordan vs. Jordan Rules:


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[TheMan]

It depends on a team's overall performance. For example, the 2014 Clippers were clearly an elite team despite losing in the second round. The 94' Bulls finished only 2 games from the #1 seed and then fought the East champ to a draw. This wasn't a 47 win team that got demolished in the second round.

Thanks, LeBird. Those teams had several peers. The 80's Celtics and Showtime Lakers barely won 40 games without Bird and Magic.



:lol

It infuriates them because it is true and they desperately don't want it to be. He also had exquisite timing to avoid the rise of the Shaq-Kobe Lakers, Spurs dynasties and for his team to hit its stride as the Lakers and Celtics fell. Only Detroit overlapped with Chicago--and they were out of gas by 91'.

It is a shame. Orlando could have been that team but Shaq left.



They were elite. A legitimate title contender is "elite" in my book. Chicago was that in 11'.

The 94' Bulls would also be a 60+ win team if they had a legitimate NBA starter at SG. Heck, they were on a 63 win pace when both Pippen and Grant played. Can you imagine if they were healthy and Chicago lost the "greatest of all-time", replaced him with a D-leaguer and then improved to 62-64 wins? :roll:
The RS means little, get it through your thick head. LeBron won 60+ two years in a row without a title, he won 50+ in one of his title years, which is he more proud of? He certainly would've stayed in Cleveland if he ws happy being RS champion.

IN THE END, NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT RS WIN TOTAL IF YOU DON'T WIN THE TITLE!!!

You think the 72-10 Bulls would still be looked at the same if they lost to Seattle. In another sport, the Patriots only loss a few years back was in the SuperBowl to the Giants, you think people give a shit they went 16-0? No, the Giants are remembered as the champs that year...

And could please stop with this crap about Jordan being "lucky" he was born a few years later than Larry Bird and Magic Johnson and a few years earlier than Kobe, Shaq, and Duncan. You fon't choose when you're born you idiot. I can play the same game and say LeBron is lucky his prime wasn't in the 90s or else he'd be another cat MJ left ringless :oldlol:

It's a retarded argument and I've heard you mention it before, no one chooses when their prime is you dope :facepalm I blame Larry and Magic for being born too early and robbing us of some classic prime Larry vs prime Magic vs prime MJ in the 90s :facepalm

[jayfan]

Chuck Daly: Pippen was a superstar in the making, I knew our days were numbered when the Bulls got him. (from Halberstom's MJ book. Daly saw the Bulls would surge past Detroit once Pippen realized his potential with experience)

Michael Jordan: "When I said (in 1995) that Scottie was the best player in the league I meant it."

MJ also compared Pippen to Magic and Bird as achieving a "certain level of greatness."



:rolleyes:




.

[spacebump]

not according to isiah thomas - isiah said on NBA TV's Open Court that pippen didn't deserve to be top 50, and the OP quote shows Laimbeer saying the entire Piston team didn't focus at all on pippen.. only on Jordan.

As soon as Pippen's game made a leap, the Pistons couldn't stop the Bulls. Pippen is easily a top 50 player, doubting that is a bit delusional. Also, why should we listen to Thomas discussing other players? When he was a GM he proved to not be the best evaluator of talent.

[jayfan]

As soon as Pippen's game made a leap, the Pistons couldn't stop the Bulls. Pippen is easily a top 50 player, doubting that is a bit delusional. Also, why should we listen to Thomas discussing other players? When he was a GM he proved to not be the best evaluator of talent.

As soon as Pippen 'made a leap,' the Pistons had lost Mahorn, and were on their way down anyway.




.

[hitmanyr2k]

As soon as Pippen 'made a leap,' the Pistons had lost Mahorn, and were on their way down anyway.

.

Rick Mahorn? He didn't matter much when the Pistons won the title in 1990 :confusedshrug: