Who was the most valuable second option to their Team? Wade, Pippen or Kobe?

[HOoopCityJones]

2010-13 Wade

1990-98 Pippen

2000-02 Kobe

[Droid101]

Kobe not close. Look at what he did to the Kings and Spurs in 2001. Brutal.

[TheMarkMadsen]

The guy who Phil Jackson relied on to take more shots per game than prime Shaq

[Prime_Shaq]

While all of them were the 2nd option, I feel they all had different roles on their respective teams.

Wade - Didn't really have the ball in his hands much but still had to apply pressure on the oppositions defense to take some defensive pressure off LeBron.

Pippen - Integral to Phil's triangle offense and incredible defensive player. One of the best 2 way players ever.

Kobe - Formed the best 1-2 punch combo of all time with Shaq. They both set up each other for so many easy scores with such cohesiveness. Was clutch as hell too.

Gun to my head if I had to rank them though,
1. Kobe
2. Pippen
3. Wade

[IcanzIIravor]

Kobe not close. Look at what he did to the Kings and Spurs in 2001. Brutal.

This.:cheers:

[imdaman99]

Easily Kobe. He would take over in all them 4th quarters to lead them comebacks against the Spurs

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Bean, the greatest sidekick of them all. Just ask Shaq.

[Milbuck]

2001 Kobe was playing like the 1A/1B to peak Shaq for most of the playoffs. People neglect that run because he didn't get finals MVP, but the dude was an absolute monster.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Kobe 07-10

[HOoopCityJones]

2001 Kobe was playing like the 1A/1B to peak Shaq for most of the playoffs. People neglect that run because he didn't get finals MVP, but the dude was an absolute monster.

Real talk. If there was a WCF MVP , Kobe would've won every year.

[knicksman]

if kobe is in then bran should too

[SouBeachTalents]

Real talk. If there was a WCF MVP , Kobe would've won every year.

In 2000 and '02? Hell no

[bluechox2]

wade

[HOoopCityJones]

In 2000 and '02? Hell no

Kobe was the best player in every WC Playoff during the 3peat. FACT.

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe was the best player in every WC Playoff during the 3peat. FACT.

2000
Shaq: 28, 15, 3 on 55%
Kobe: 23, 4, 5 on 46%

2002
Shaq: 26, 13, 3 on 51%
Kobe: 27, 6, 4 on 42%

[HOoopCityJones]

2000
Shaq: 28, 15, 3 on 55%
Kobe: 23, 4, 5 on 46%

2002
Shaq: 26, 13, 3 on 51%
Kobe: 27, 6, 4 on 42%

2/3 cuh :confusedshrug:

[RRR3]

2000
Shaq: 28, 15, 3 on 55%
Kobe: 23, 4, 5 on 46%

2002
Shaq: 26, 13, 3 on 51%
Kobe: 27, 6, 4 on 42%
😮😹

[Jasper]

It's amazing how Kobe is looked upon...
2 years ago , on ISH kobe was considered head and shoulders above Shaq in all championship years...
Now he is compared to Robin status(.)

:rolleyes:

Fast forward 2-3 years and he will be compared to ________________.
:pimp:

================

OP question : Pippen.

[Demon Lizard]

Close between Pippen and Kobe. The first half of Wade's was comparable, but a steep downhill the last 2 years.

[SamuraiSWISH]

2001 Kobe was playing like the 1A/1B to peak Shaq for most of the playoffs. People neglect that run because he didn't get finals MVP, but the dude was an absolute monster.
2002 to a lesser extent as well. To rank them ...

1) 2001 Kobe: Co-Alpha
2) 2002 Kobe: Co-Alpha
3) 2012 Wade: Sidekick

4) 1992 Pippen: Sidekick
5) 1991 Pippen: Sidekick
6) 2000 Kobe: Sidekick

7) 1993 Pippen: Sidekick
8) 1996 Pippen: Sidekick
9) 2013 Wade: Sidekick
10) 1998 Pippen: Sidekick
11) 1997 Pippen: Sidekick

[Demon Lizard]

1) 2001 Kobe: Co-Alpha
2) 2002 Kobe: Co-Alpha


Why did this become an agenda after Shaq left to Miami?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Why did this become an agenda after Shaq left to Miami?
He wasn't their best player, or team center piece ... But 29/5/5 with elite defense, and 27/6/4 with elite defense are not mere sidekick stat lines, and ability.

[Jacks3]

It's easily Kobe.

The 3rd best player for the Heat was a perennial PF and future HOF.

The 3rd best player for the Bulls was Grant, who was a very good player and might be one of the most underrated players of the 90's.

The 3rd best player for the those Laker teams was...Fisher? Old man Horry? :oldlol:

It's not even close. Kobe simply had to carry the bigger load.

[Jacks3]

Why did this become an agenda after Shaq left to Miami?

Kobe was widely regarded as the best perimeter player in basketball and one of the 3-4 best players in the world during 01 and 02. In fact, there were plenty of people who thought the Lakers had the two best players in the league after in 2001. There's no agenda. You can't play at that level and be merely a "sidekick''.

[supernova5912]

1. Kobe Bryant during that title run was incredible as a 2nd option because he put up numbers that first options do. In those three-peat years, he averaged 25.4 points, 5.9 rebounds, 5.4 assists, 1.6 steals, and 0.7 blocks with a 23.2 PER and a 54.7 TS% in the regular season. In the playoffs, he averaged 25.3 points, 5.7 rebounds, 4.9 assists, 1.5 steals, and 1.1 blocks with a 21.3 PER and a 52.7 TS%. Consider that he was equal to and possibly even better than prime Shaq in several games (especially 2001) like when he dropped 48 points and 16 rebounds to end the series after a 36/7/4 performance (to take a 3-0 lead) against the 55-27 Kings or when he dominated the 58-24 Spurs with 45 points and 10 rebounds in game 1, 28/7/6 in game 2, and 36/9/8 in game 3.


2. Scottie Pippen is one of the greatest 2nd options all-time, averaging 19.6 points, 7.2 rebounds, 5.9 assists, 2.3 steals, and 1.0 blocks with a 20.6 PER and 54.4 TS%. In the playoffs, he averaged 19.2 points, 7.8 rebounds, and 5.5 assists with a 19.4 PER and a 52.5 TS%. This isn't to mention his defensive impact, being regarded as one of the best perimeter defenders of all-time. He's also had great playoff games such as his 32/13/7/5 game (while holding Magic to 33% shooting) to eliminate the 58-24 Lakers in game 5 or putting up 28/9/5 against the 62-20 Jazz in game 4 to take a 3-1 series lead.

3. Wade was also a good 2nd option with averages of 23.1 points, 5.5 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 1.7 steals, and 1.1 blocks with a 25.2 PER and 57.2 TS%. In the playoffs, he averaged 21.0 points, 5.6 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 1.7 steals, and 1.2 blocks with a 22.4 PER and a 53.4 TS%. He had some great games like putting up 41 points and 10 rebounds in game 6 to end the 42-24 Pacer's championship hopes or his 32/6/4/6 game 4 against the 58-24 Spurs.

Per-100 -

Regular Season:

00-02 Kobe Bryant: 33.8 points, 7.8 rebounds, 6.8 assists, 2.1 steals, 0.9 blocks, 3.9 turnovers, 112 ORtg, 102 Drtg

90-98 Scottie Pippen: 26.7 points, 9.9 rebounds, 8.1 assists, 3.1 steals, 1.3 blocks, 4.1 turnovers, 111 ORtg, 101 DRtg

10-13 Dwayne Wade: 34.6 points, 8.2 rebounds, 7.1 assists, 2.5 steal, 1.6 blocks, 4.2 turnovers, 113 ORtg, 101 DRtg

Playoffs:

00-02 Kobe Bryant: 31.8 points, 7.2 rebounds, 6.2 assists, 1.9 steals, 1.3 blocks, 3.5 turnovers, 110 ORtg, 104 DRtg

90-98 Scottie Pippen: 26.1 points, 10.8 rebounds, 7.5 assists, 2.8 steals, 1.3 blocks, 4.1 turnovers, 109 ORtg, 101 DRtg

10-13 Dwayne Wade: 30.4 points, 8.1 rebounds, 6.5 assists, 2.4 steals, 1.8 blocks, 4.2 turnovers, 108 ORtg, 102 DRtg

[HOoopCityJones]

Kobe was widely regarded as the best perimeter player in basketball and one of the 3-4 best players in the world during 01 and 02. In fact, there were plenty of people who thought the Lakers had the two best players in the league after in 2001. There's no agenda. You can't play at that level and be merely a "sidekick''.

By 03 some commentators throughout the league were saying Kobe was the best player on the Lakers, including our own. Chick Hearn in particular knew how good Kobe would be before he passed. He also predicted he would be a 20 year member of the organization.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Co-Alpha

:roll:

[Prometheus]

Kobe, then Pippen, then Wade.

But without any one of them, 0 rings.

[Badazzwriter]

2010-13 Wade

1990-98 Pippen

2000-02 Kobe
:coleman: :coleman:

[BasedTom]

Kobe was 1b
MJ is GOAT

So Wade.

[mehyaM24]

2002 to a lesser extent as well. To rank them ...

1) 2001 Kobe: Co-Alpha
2) 2002 Kobe: Co-Alpha
3) 2012 Wade: Sidekick

up your basketball knowledge, brah

2001 kobe could be seen as a "co-alpha" (still an inferior player to shaq), but no other year during their 3-peat. 2002 is a stretch, considering it was a down year for kobe up until the playoffs vs the spurs - the only stretch of games you could consider kobe "co alpha" (yet and still, the inferior player).

[OldSchoolBBall]

'01/'02 Kobe > '92/'93/'96 Pippen = '11/'12 Wade > '91/'97 Pip >= '00 Kobe > '98 Pip >= '13 Wade

[Roundball_Rock]

:oldlol: at SS, who goes on and on about "sidekicks" calling Kobe "co" anything with the MDE. Shaq was the straw that stirred that drink. Look at LA's record with Shaq, without Kobe (fine) and with Kobe, without Shaq (consistent 0.500 basketball). Kobe wasn't leading his team to 0.708 without Shaq like Pippen did, as an example. They were 0.500. Meanwhile LA remained dominant with Shaq, without Kobe/

Wade clearly was the least valuable of the three listed if you are looking at their two championship years.

[AirBourne92]

people act like kobe wasn't the best player on his team at some point even during the 3 peat

nnumber 1 perimeter option

number 1 lockdown defender

he took a step back cause the triangle phil ran made shaq the focal point


people act like basketball and winning ships is about grabbing stats and filling up stat sheets smh

[Thorpesaurous]

I think Pippen is the most unique and valuable second option of all time because of how odd Jordan was a first option, and how weird that team assembly is. A wing player who occupies the post, demanding a PG and Big who are more floor spacers than their natural position suggests. And Pippen so weirdly covered for so many of the weaknesses those players brought to the table to make the small triangle work, the PG play on offense. The extra rebounding from the SF spot. The ability to help defend the rim from the SF or even PG spot. And the ability to allow Jordan to roam on Defense too.

He's by no means the best player of the group. He's probably the worst, although you can make a case for his longevity over Wade I suppose, but as far as value from that second option goes, Pippen I feel is historically unique.

[Prime_Shaq]

people act like kobe wasn't the best player on his team at some point even during the 3 peat

nnumber 1 perimeter option

number 1 lockdown defender

he took a step back cause the triangle phil ran made shaq the focal point


people act like basketball and winning ships is about grabbing stats and filling up stat sheets smh
Kobe was amazing and definitely top 3 player in the league during the 3 peat but it was Shaq's team.

[IMObjective]

Who was the sidekick during the showtime Lakers, Magic or Kareem? It's too bad Kobe and Shaq couldn't keep their huge egos in check and stick together a bit longer to win a few more rings. Everyone saw how quickly Shaq dropped off after leaving the Lakers, Kobe would have been winning the fmvps and these silly sidekick talks would have ended.

Even without the hypothetical scenarios, Kobe's already proven he can win as a first option so I don't know why people try to portray Kobe as a sidekick persona, calling him the greatest sidekick ever as if that's what he should be known for. Since Magic seems to be higher up on The List, Magic is actually the greatest sidekick of all time. No, Magic is not a sidekick either.

[ILLsmak]

Not to turn this into a Kobe v Shaq thread...

I dunno, tho. Both Kobe and Pippen really did their thing. If the true question is second 'option' then it's Kobe easy. But if it's "1b" or "sidekick" then I think Pippen could be the one. Pippen was a monster. Just because someone doesn't get 30 doesn't mean they're not an all-time great.

-Smak

[aj1987]

It's easily Kobe.

The 3rd best player for the Heat was a perennial PF and future HOF.

The 3rd best player for the Bulls was Grant, who was a very good player and might be one of the most underrated players of the 90's.

The 3rd best player for the those Laker teams was...Fisher? Old man Horry? :oldlol:

It's not even close. Kobe simply had to carry the bigger load.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: