Unguardable, except by double team....

[Rolando]

Back in the day....there were specific players who simply could not be defended 1 on 1. Names that come to mind:
1. Shaq
2. Charles Barkley
3. Jordan

Who, in todays game, simply cannot be handled 1 on 1? Lebron? Harden? Westbrook?......I don't know. Have the rules changed such that this type of situation is not possible anymore or is there simply nobody as dominant as these guys that I have mentioned?

Who, absolutely, has to be doubled?

[Jlamb47]

Kevin Durant

[SugarHill]

Melo

[PacerRaptor]

Lebron

[SHAQisGOAT]

Hmm... Tough to say, exactly.

I believe a dude like Shaq just had to be double-teamed most of the time, or let's say against most centers. He was pretty smart and could pass the rock but I'd rather live with that, dude was too much a beast of a scorer at his peak, too unstoppable.

You got Kareem who was a terrific scorer with a very high IQ, he really knew how to avoid double-teams to score or make the pass to an open teammate... So, it's hard to say exactly what to do, that's the "beauty" with the best players.

Larry Bird could be killing your best defender at any given time 1on1, from the post or from the outside... but you just can't double that type of player, his IQ was through the roof and he was just a terrific passer from everywhere.

Magic was many times looking for his teammates but when he got a shorter player down-low? You're screwed because most of the time he's scoring or gettin an assist. You just gotta throw bigger players at him, great all-around defenders, and avoid double-teams.


Speaking of 25+ PPG scorers, imo...

You double-team:
Shaq
Dantley
Jordan (ONLY if he REALLY gets it going, very good passer but I'd rather live with that)
...

You don't double-team:
Bird
Lebron
Maravich
...

Just some examples there, to paint a picture... And speaking generally and most of the time, ofc.

[fsvr54]

Kevin Durant

Durant has gotten raped by Tony Allen and Chris Paul.

[Rolando]

Hmm... Tough to say, exactly.

I believe a dude like Shaq just had to be double-teamed most of the time, or let's say against most centers. He was pretty smart and could pass the rock but I'd rather live with that, dude was too much a beast of a scorer at his peak, too unstoppable.

You got Kareem who was a terrific scorer with a very high IQ, he really knew how to avoid double-teams to score or make the pass to an open teammate... So, it's hard to say exactly what to do, that's the "beauty" with the best players.

Larry Bird could be killing your best defender at any given time 1on1, from the post or from the outside... but you just can't double that type of player, his IQ was through the roof and he was just a terrific passer from everywhere.

Magic was many times looking for his teammates but when he got a shorter player down-low? You're screwed because most of the time he's scoring or gettin an assist. You just gotta throw bigger players at him, great all-around defenders, and avoid double-teams.


Speaking of 25+ PPG scorers, imo...

You double-team:
Shaq
Dantley
Jordan (ONLY if he REALLY gets it going, very good passer but I'd rather live with that)
...

You don't double-team:
Bird
Lebron
Maravich
...

Just some examples there, to paint a picture... And speaking generally and most of the time, ofc.


I like that: There are also players who are too good at passing to double.
Bird
Lebron
I guess that's where Lebron fits in. You have to send someone really solid at him like younger Pierce or current Kawhi Leonard and then hope for the best.

With the new perimeter rules and defensive strategies it seems like "help defense" is the new word for double team. People always need help with Harden for instance.

[dannysc305]

Honorable mention vintage Dwyane Wade. Will totally break you down off the dribble/post up/Find the man you left open to send that weak ass double.

[Captvic]

Prime Joe Johnson

[GimmeThat]

I feel like this is just another one of those reference as to how the "catcher" or your presumed team leader on setting up your defensive formation based on who's at bat, how many is on base and the score etc.

[ILLsmak]

Back in the day....there were specific players who simply could not be defended 1 on 1. Names that come to mind:
1. Shaq
2. Charles Barkley
3. Jordan

Who, in todays game, simply cannot be handled 1 on 1? Lebron? Harden? Westbrook?......I don't know. Have the rules changed such that this type of situation is not possible anymore or is there simply nobody as dominant as these guys that I have mentioned?

Who, absolutely, has to be doubled?

You can't really throw an effective double at someone unless they have their back to the basket. Sure, you can trap them on the baseline or send help at them when they drive or shoot, but the actual hard double is a post defense, IMO.

All of those guys were able to toy with their post defender. Jordan was probably the hardest because he could still hit without backing in. People who back in get doubled. In fact, in most games when someone starts backing in the D starts digging in toward them. Depending on how successful they are, a double might come.

There really aren't any beast 25ppg back to the basket guys. 25 ppg in general seems harder to hit than before. Add zone into that, 5 second backdown, and more or less the fact that you can't throw your body into people like you could before, it makes you wonder if anyone will ever get that sort of attention on the block. Nobody really doubles a fade away or a post move. Most people are doubling when a guy can just take two dribbles and dunk on you or get a lay up. I don't know if that playstyle is possible anymore.

-Smak

[SsKSpurs21]

Tim Duncan required double teams...one of the biggest reasons pop surrounded him with 3point shooters like kerr, stephen jackson, brent barry, bruce bowen etc.

"4 down" is the play...pass the ball to duncan on the low block. if hes 1 on 1 then he takes it...if the double comes he passes the ball back out, then swing until you find the open man. thats how the spurs won the 2005 championship. watch the 4th quarter of game 7 vs pistons. also watch the 4th quarter of game 6 vs the nets in 2003... they ran this play over and over and over.

[Rolando]

You can't really throw an effective double at someone unless they have their back to the basket. Sure, you can trap them on the baseline or send help at them when they drive or shoot, but the actual hard double is a post defense, IMO.

All of those guys were able to toy with their post defender. Jordan was probably the hardest because he could still hit without backing in. People who back in get doubled. In fact, in most games when someone starts backing in the D starts digging in toward them. Depending on how successful they are, a double might come.

There really aren't any beast 25ppg back to the basket guys. 25 ppg in general seems harder to hit than before. Add zone into that, 5 second backdown, and more or less the fact that you can't throw your body into people like you could before, it makes you wonder if anyone will ever get that sort of attention on the block. Nobody really doubles a fade away or a post move. Most people are doubling when a guy can just take two dribbles and dunk on you or get a lay up. I don't know if that playstyle is possible anymore.

-Smak

Nice post. :applause:

[Rolando]

Tim Duncan required double teams...one of the biggest reasons pop surrounded him with 3point shooters like kerr, stephen jackson, brent barry, bruce bowen etc.

"4 down" is the play...pass the ball to duncan on the low block. if hes 1 on 1 then he takes it...if the double comes he passes the ball back out, then swing until you find the open man. thats how the spurs won the 2005 championship. watch the 4th quarter of game 7 vs pistons. also watch the 4th quarter of game 6 vs the nets in 2003... they ran this play over and over and over.

Yes. A truly great and physical post player like Duncan has to be doubled. It always results in an open man.