Why do Barkley and Shaq hate Wade?

[JohnMax]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGBJQM-eFsY&t=4m42s

Wade jokes about Barkley & Shaq, their reply:

Barkley: "He could take my job, he ain't playing."
Shaq: "He ain't done nothing since LeBron left."

.

[L.Kizzle]

Cause he deserves it.

[imdaman99]

Insecurity. Wade is that guy that carried Shaq's ass to a ring and Shaq is not used to that.

And Barkley is bitter against anyone with a ring, don't know what his beef with the Knicks and Rockets is though.

[DatAsh]

Cause he deserves it.

Why do you hate Wade so much? You seem like a really knowledgeable and reasonable poster. Your hate for Wade is obvious though.

[GrapeApe]

Insecurity. Wade is that guy that carried Shaq's ass to a ring and Shaq is not used to that.

And Barkley is bitter against anyone with a ring, don't know what his beef with the Knicks and Rockets is though.

The part about Shaq is probably spot on. Barkley though, it almost seems like something personal. He really does seem to have some sort of beef with Wade.

[navy]

The part about Shaq is probably spot on. Barkley though, it almost seems like something personal. He really does seem to have some sort of beef with Wade.
Must have had a falling out after those tmobile commercials.

[Magic 32]

Why do you hate Wade so much? You seem like a really knowledgeable and reasonable poster. Your hate for Wade is obvious though.

http://gif.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/DWYANE-WADE-DIRTY-PLAYER.gif

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/607370/rondoelbow.gif

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/euLvKkoxM68/hqdefault.jpg

http://www.fullcourtpest.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/vlcsnap-2012-06-09-16h10m04s140.png

https://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/hur88.gif

http://i.minus.com/ibhTszrezUHFOY.gif

[AirBourne92]

where's the beef???

aware me someone

[Horde of Temujin]

Wade is a dirty player and a despicaple human being

[SouBeachTalents]

Wade is a dirty player and a despicaple human being

Pretty much the NBA equivalent of Hitler

[Spaulding]

Wade is a dirty player and a despicaple human being


Pretty much the NBA equivalent of Hitler

http://i.imgur.com/HprrC1t.jpg

[L.Kizzle]

Why do you hate Wade so much? You seem like a really knowledgeable and reasonable poster. Your hate for Wade is obvious though.
I don't hate Wade. I was a fan when he entered the league. Actually went to school with a cousin of his. Once he joined forces with LeBron and Bosh I didn't care for him as much.

Love Bosh though.

[AirBourne92]

so where's the beef? did they say anything?

tf is up with this place not sourcing anythign?

i can literally make a thread saying kobe slept with michelle obama and i bet it would be full of people engaging in a serious discussion

[L.Kizzle]

so where's the beef? did they say anything?

tf is up with this place not sourcing anythign?

i can literally make a thread saying kobe slept with michelle obama and i bet it would be full of people engaging in a serious discussion
Oh shit, Kobe slept with Michelle Obama. That Kobe, always creeping.

[DatAsh]

I don't hate Wade. I was a fan when he entered the league. Actually went to school with a cousin of his. Once he joined forces with LeBron and Bosh I didn't care for him as much.

Love Bosh though.

Why do you rate him so low?

[L.Kizzle]

Why do you rate him so low?
What is low?

[DatAsh]

What is low?

I saw in another thread you said he wouldn't make your top 35.

[L.Kizzle]

I saw in another thread you said he wouldn't make your top 35.
I thinkk he's somewhere between 30-40. So 35 may be right.

[DatAsh]

I thinkk he's somewhere between 30-40. So 35 may be right.

I just have trouble getting behind that.

Obviously health is his biggest issue, but he still averaged like 27/5/7 over 7 years with good to great defense(~25/5/6 over 9 years), showed that he was willing to sacrifice stats to win championships, and won 3 rings along the way, with 1 fmvp. I have trouble finding finding more than about 21-24 guys better than that, I don't see how you can have 35-40. Don't want to completely discount his longevity issues, but guys like Bird have had similar longevity with little to no criticism of the fact.

[SouBeachTalents]

I just have trouble getting behind that.

Obviously health is his biggest issue, but he still averaged like 27/5/7 over 7 years with good to great defense(~25/5/6 over 9 years), showed that he was willing to sacrifice stats to win championships, and won 3 rings along the way, with 1 fmvp. I have trouble finding finding more than about 21-24 guys better than that, I don't see how you can have 35-40. Don't want to completely discount his longevity issues, but guys like Bird have had similar longevity with little to no criticism of the fact.

Agreed, no way Wade isn't at worst a top 25-30 player all time

[DatAsh]

Agreed, no way Wade isn't at worst a top 25-30 player all time

I've tried ranking Wade fairly before and I usually arrive at low to mid 20s. Mid 20s is usually about the point where I have to say, ok Wade has 5 or 6 years that are better than this guy's best year, he can't go any lower than this.

[L.Kizzle]

I just have trouble getting behind that.

Obviously health is his biggest issue, but he still averaged like 27/5/7 over 7 years with good to great defense(~25/5/6 over 9 years), showed that he was willing to sacrifice stats to win championships, and won 3 rings along the way, with 1 fmvp. I have trouble finding finding more than about 21-24 guys better than that, I don't see how you can have 35-40. Don't want to completely discount his longevity issues, but guys like Bird have had similar longevity with little to no criticism of the fact.
Bird was the best player for many years in the league. Wade at his best, top five a few times.

My problem with Wade is without Shaq or LeBron he's not getting very far. He goes as far as a Wilkins or Vince Carter in the playoffs without a top player of all time. That's the only reason I don't have him as high as others.

He's not a top 5 player of his era, so how can he be 21-24 all time?

Kobe
Duncan
KG
Shaq
Dirk
LeBron
Iverson

At best, he's 7th or 8th if you have Iverson over him. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and have hin at 7.

7 per decade starting in 1960. That comes to about 35 players give or take a few.

[SouBeachTalents]

Bird was the best player for many years in the league. Wade at his best, top five a few times.

My problem with Wade is without Shaq or LeBron he's not getting very far. He goes as far as a Wilkins or Vince Carter in the playoffs without a top player of all time. That's the only reason I don't have him as high as others.

He's not a top 5 player of his era, so how can he be 21-24 all time?

Kobe
Duncan
KG
Shaq
Dirk
LeBron
Iverson

At best, he's 7th or 8th if you have Iverson over him. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and have hin at 7.

7 per decade starting in 1960. That comes to about 35 players give or take a few.

That's faulty logic because not all decades are created equal. I'll spot you Kareem, name me 6 more players who primarily played in the 70's you'd have ranked ahead of Wade?

[Fawker]

He's a fraud with chips handed to him from Shaq and LeBron. Can he lead Pau and Odom right now?

[SouBeachTalents]

He's a fraud with chips handed to him from Shaq and LeBron. Can he lead Pau and Odom right now?

Shaq sure handed that chip to Wade scoring 20 ppg less than him in the '06 Finals

[L.Kizzle]

That's faulty logic because not all decades are created equal. I'll spot you Kareem, name me 6 more players who primarily played in the 70's you'd have ranked ahead of Wade?
Barry
Havlicek
Erving
Frazier
Reed
Cowens

I did say give or take a few. That's five including Kareem. I didn't even include MVPs Wes Unseld, Gervin, Hayes and McAdoo.

50s
Mikan
Cousy

60s
Russell
Wilt
Pettit
Baylor
West
O

80s
Magic
Bird
Moses
Zeke

90s
Jordan
Hakeem
Malone
Barkley
Robinson
Stockton
Pippen
Drexler

Than you have players on the fence like Schayes, Arizin, Unseld, Hayes, McAdoo, Gervin, McHale, Ewing, Payton, Kidd, Nash.

[JohnFreeman]

Wheres the video?

[BasedTom]

For Barkley: Success breeds jealousy.

Shaq is a special case, in that behind the smile and extroverted personality, you can sense that there's a darker, more insecure and envious side to him.

He is the self proclaimed "Most Dominant Ever." He resented criticism that he could improve his work ethic, didn't want to share the spotlight, hopped from team to team without much loyalty. There was probably some element of truth to all of that. Every time he analyzes a center: "You really can't get 25/20 night in and night out?" as if it's as easy a task as reading dr. suess books. No shit he undermines his team-mate that won a FMVP over him.

"I've never had a Shaqtin' a Fool moment" Yeah ok.

Again, maybe that massive ego is what helped produce such a colossus on the court. But he's probably closer to artest and rodman than most people realize.

[Micku]

Why do you say that they hate Wade?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Because they are objective fans of basketball and find it absolutely despicable how Wade cost LeBron titles in 2011, 2014 and almost 2013 (if it weren't for a godly performance from our King).

[bdreason]

They both know him well... so maybe they both have their reasons.

[aj1987]

Barry
Havlicek
Erving
Frazier
Reed
Cowens

I did say give or take a few. That's five including Kareem. I didn't even include MVPs Wes Unseld, Gervin, Hayes and McAdoo.

50s
Mikan
Cousy

60s
Russell
Wilt
Pettit
Baylor
West
O

80s
Magic
Bird
Moses
Zeke

90s
Jordan
Hakeem
Malone
Barkley
Robinson
Stockton
Pippen
Drexler

Than you have players on the fence like Schayes, Arizin, Unseld, Hayes, McAdoo, Gervin, McHale, Ewing, Payton, Kidd, Nash.
:roll:

[stephanieg]

It may not be Wade's fault, but I feel like the '06 finals did a lot of damage to the NBA fandom. It became much more cynical and open to rigging conspiracies. It also brought into sharp focus the ludricous reffing of offensive players who flop and run into defenders and get foul calls. This was always hanging around players in the past (Kobe/Shaq, Jordan), but I feel like it passed a threshold of outrage after '06.

Add in PED conspiracies (dat jaw) and there ya go.

[BasedTom]

Isiah was pretty damn good dude. His career path/play style was a bit similar to Wade's, in that a fan of one would likely appreciate the other.

Nowhere near the most offensive name on that list if you ask me.

[Lebron23]

Barkley and Shaq are just joking.

[BasedTom]

It may not be Wade's fault, but I feel like the '06 finals did a lot of damage to the NBA fandom. It became much more cynical and open to rigging conspiracies. It also brought into sharp focus the ludricous reffing of offensive players who flop and run into defenders and get foul calls. This was always hanging around players in the past (Kobe/Shaq, Jordan), but I feel like it passed a threshold of outrage after '06.

Add in PED conspiracies (dat jaw) and there ya go.
meh. 2002 was worse. At least 06 could be explained in some way as perimeter players taking advantage of the rule changes, knowing that being aggressive would almost always pay off, etc. The only justification I've heard about 02 was that the Kings had another chance and that the Lakers were just better anyway with prime Shaq. The Tim Donaghy stuff that came out later seemed more tied to 2002 as well. Outside of Dallas and whatever team happens to be playing the heat in the playoffs in a particular time, not much is brought up about 06.

Now that I think about it, much about the '00s NBA really is barely taled about in the media. It makes sense since a lot of the personalities on the networks were huge in the 90s, and everyone already knows about the legends before them... but you'd still think that stuff like the jail blazers, those pistons teams, the spurs (prior to 2013 when finally people started appreciating them) would be regularly referenced.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Bob Cousy is better than Dwyane Wade...LMFAO

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Bird was the best player for many years in the league. Wade at his best, top five a few times.

My problem with Wade is without Shaq or LeBron he's not getting very far. He goes as far as a Wilkins or Vince Carter in the playoffs without a top player of all time. That's the only reason I don't have him as high as others.

He's not a top 5 player of his era, so how can he be 21-24 all time?

Kobe
Duncan
KG
Shaq
Dirk
LeBron
Iverson

At best, he's 7th or 8th if you have Iverson over him. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and have hin at 7.

7 per decade starting in 1960. That comes to about 35 players give or take a few.
good god:facepalm

[Wade's Rings]

Why do you say that they hate Wade?

On Open Court Barkley said Wade didn't deserve to be on the Next 10 Greatest Players for this era (1997-Present). He said Bosh had been the best player on Miami this year, which statistically & Impact wise isn't true. He followed this up by saying Wade doesn't deserve to be an All-Star.
In the first Paragraphs in this Article below after Wade's Peak 2009 Season he says Melo surpassed Wade as a player :facepalm
http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/193844-dwyane-wade-vs-carmelo-anthony-whos-the-better-player

Shaq Said he would take Tracy Mcgrady & Penny Hardaway over Wade on the same Open Court episode. Penny & T-Mac :oldlol:
Shaq called Wade Wonder Boy back in 2009 and said in May of 2014 that Wade was "the other guy" aka 2nd Option for all of his Titles.

I'm sure there are more examples if you catch more Broadcasts.

The Open Court Episode is called The 50 Greatest & Next 10 if you want to watch it. I think the Full Episode is on Youtube. Chris Webber & Reggie Miller were near unanimous Picks while Wade barely made the List.

[Wade's Rings]

Bird was the best player for many years in the league. Wade at his best, top five a few times.

My problem with Wade is without Shaq or LeBron he's not getting very far. He goes as far as a Wilkins or Vince Carter in the playoffs without a top player of all time. That's the only reason I don't have him as high as others.

He's not a top 5 player of his era, so how can he be 21-24 all time?

Kobe
Duncan
KG
Shaq
Dirk
LeBron
Iverson

At best, he's 7th or 8th if you have Iverson over him. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and have hin at 7.

7 per decade starting in 1960. That comes to about 35 players give or take a few.

Did you see the teams that were Constructed around him? He had absolute Shit for 2 Years after Shaq left and Before Bron came. You're telling me Peak/Prime Wade with Help like LeBron/Kobe got those years wouldn't go far? He lead his team to the 2nd Round as a Rookie.

Kobe has never made it out if the 1st Round without Shaq or Gasol, but i'm sure he doesn't get Flak for that.

[LeBird]

The Open Court Episode is called The 50 Greatest & Next 10 if you want to watch it. I think the Full Episode is on Youtube. Chris Webber & Reggie Miller were near unanimous Picks while Wade barely made the List.

:lol , what a joke.

[Dresta]

Bird was the best player for many years in the league. Wade at his best, top five a few times.

My problem with Wade is without Shaq or LeBron he's not getting very far. He goes as far as a Wilkins or Vince Carter in the playoffs without a top player of all time. That's the only reason I don't have him as high as others.

He's not a top 5 player of his era, so how can he be 21-24 all time?

Kobe
Duncan
KG
Shaq
Dirk
LeBron
Iverson

At best, he's 7th or 8th if you have Iverson over him. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and have hin at 7.

7 per decade starting in 1960. That comes to about 35 players give or take a few.
This post is downright retarded. He never had a remotely competent team without another great player in his career (aside from his rookie season, where he made the 2nd round). The 09 & 10 season's were knowingly sacrificed for 10 free agency and the chance to construct a title-winning team - that was a sacrifice which ended in championships, and yet his team knowingly sacrificing seasons is blamed on Wade, and used to compare him to Vince Carter like a ****ing first-class imbecile.

The same argument can also be used against all those guys because no one wins on their own, and Wade won the title in 06 pretty close to single-handedly

Shaq was a physical wreck by 06 - about the same as Wade last year tbh.

Shaq and Wade were drafted 11 years apart and yet they're 'of the same era' - what a selective clown you are. You clearly have an agenda, and it explains your faulty logic here.

[ArbitraryWater]

L Kizzle you gotta realize how biased and off you are here... You also contradict yourself all the time, while saying stupid shit like "Wade isn't top 5 in his era, how can he be top 25 all time?"

What is "Wade's era" ? From 2005-2012 I'd only take LeBron over him, Wade would right there tied with Dirk/Kobe.

[greatest-ever]

Bird was the best player for many years in the league. Wade at his best, top five a few times.

My problem with Wade is without Shaq or LeBron he's not getting very far. He goes as far as a Wilkins or Vince Carter in the playoffs without a top player of all time. That's the only reason I don't have him as high as others.

He's not a top 5 player of his era, so how can he be 21-24 all time?

Kobe
Duncan
KG
Shaq
Dirk
LeBron
Iverson

At best, he's 7th or 8th if you have Iverson over him. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and have hin at 7.

7 per decade starting in 1960. That comes to about 35 players give or take a few.
Lol at Iverson over Wade.

[SugarHill]

Barry
Havlicek
Erving
Frazier
Reed
Cowens

I did say give or take a few. That's five including Kareem. I didn't even include MVPs Wes Unseld, Gervin, Hayes and McAdoo.

50s
Mikan
Cousy

60s
Russell
Wilt
Pettit
Baylor
West
O

80s
Magic
Bird
Moses
Zeke

90s
Jordan
Hakeem
Malone
Barkley
Robinson
Stockton
Pippen
Drexler

Than you have players on the fence like Schayes, Arizin, Unseld, Hayes, McAdoo, Gervin, McHale, Ewing, Payton, Kidd, Nash.
http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y301/aboxorocks/oprah_wow.gif

[greatest-ever]

Because they are objective fans of basketball and find it absolutely despicable how Wade cost LeBron titles in 2011, 2014 and almost 2013 (if it weren't for a godly performance from our King).
Its pretty damn obvious that Lebron cost Wade a Fmvp in 2011, with his 18 ppg finals display.

[Wade's Rings]

Its pretty damn obvious that Lebron cost Wade a Fmvp in 2011, with his 18 ppg finals display.

This Guy is a Giant Troll just ignore him.

[mehyaM24]

Insecurity. Wade is that guy that carried Shaq's ass to a ring and Shaq is not used to that.

And Barkley is bitter against anyone with a ring, don't know what his beef with the Knicks and Rockets is though.

why do people keep parroting this myth? wade didn't "carry" anybody, and certainly not shaq.


Everything starts with dealing with Shaquille," Dallas coach Avery Johnson says.

O'Neal has not only played smartly and efficiently but at times has been as dominant as ever. Despite double-teams, sometimes when he doesn't have the ball, he is averaging 14.6 points, 9.8 rebounds and 3.2 assists and shooting 66.7%.

"Everyone knows that he's 34 years old and he's not the young Shaq-be-nimble, Shaq-be-quick, but we know we wouldn't be at this point without him,"Wade says. "He's the biggest part of what we have here in Miami."

rapm also suggests shaq's impact was right there with wade's:
http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2006.html

[Jasper]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGBJQM-eFsY&t=4m42s

Wade jokes about Barkley & Shaq, their reply:

Barkley: "He could take my job, he ain't playing."
Shaq: "He ain't done nothing since LeBron left."

.
don't kid your self - they all respect each other... Barkley for Wade's 3 rings, Shaq for getting a ring with Wade, and Wade for admiring them as HOF'ers(.)

[Dresta]

why do people keep parroting this myth? wade didn't "carry" anybody, and certainly not shaq.



rapm also suggests shaq's impact was right there with wade's:
http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2006.html
Shaq was washed up by the 06 finals, despite playing less than 60 games, and only 30mpg. He couldn't hit a ft and Mourning was generally favoured over him at the end of close games. You are utterly delusional. It makes me wonder if you were even watching basketball in 06.

Also, Ben Wallace: best and most impactful player in the league :bowdown:

[mehyaM24]

Shaq was washed up by the 06 finals, despite playing less than 60 games, and only 30mpg. He couldn't hit a ft and Mourning was generally favoured over him at the end of close games. You are utterly delusional. It makes me wonder if you were even watching basketball in 06.

Also, Ben Wallace: best and most impactful player in the league :bowdown:

coaches, players (wade himself), data, and the people who actually watched the finals disagree.

keep spewing myths, sheep. :oldlol:

[PJR]

Shaq was outscored by Antoine Walker in the Finals. Let that sink in. :oldlol:

Zo was more impactful in the deciding game 6 than Shaq lol.

[jrong]

To answer the question, Barkley: envy; Shaq: insecurity.


why do people keep parroting this myth? wade didn't "carry" anybody, and certainly not shaq.... rapm also suggests shaq's impact was right there with wade's http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2006.html

I don't know why you're so obsessed with rapm, but in any event, that looks to be a full-season measurement of the metric whereas what is under discussion is the Finals.

Here is the highest and lowest player by +/- in the Finals (plus/minus can produce some odd results from game-to-game but over a six game series, a pattern will emerge):

DAL Howard +25 Van Horn -31
MIA Mourning +32 O'Neal -28
http://www.82games.com/0506/playoffs/playoffs.htm

As any Heat fan can tell you, this tracks with what took place on court. Zo was far and away the Heat's most effective center in the series.

Also, you are a LeBron stan, aka those who claim James "carried" Wade to his last two rings.

In 2012, without looking it up, there was about a 5 ppg disparity between James and Wade during the season (27 ppg vs 22 ppg and in the playoffs and Finals (28 ppg vs. 23 ppg).

In 2006, there was a 7 ppg disparity between Wade and Shaq during the season (27 ppg vs 20 ppg), a 9 ppg one in the playoffs (28 ppg vs 19 ppg) and a 21 ppg one in the Finals (35 ppg vs 14 ppg).

Looking at these comparisons in conjunction with the +/- figures, if James "carried" Wade in 2012, then you're right-- Wade didn't carry Shaq. He dragged him.

[Roundball_Rock]

Shaq worked with Wade for 3 1/2 years. We don't know what happened behind closed doors.

People underrate Shaq's role on the Heat. He was their MVP in the ECF that year. Without him they would not get to the Finals. Moreover, just look at Miami's record with Wade, without Shaq in 05', 06' and 07'. Then look at Miami's record with Shaq, without Wade during those same years. Shaq kept Miami afloat but without Shaq Miami consistently slipped to 0.500. Shaq's impact went beyond stats which is why he managed to have his teams remain competitive without Kobe and Wade but they were 0.500 when he was out the lineup.

[mehyaM24]

To answer the question, Barkley: envy; Shaq: insecurity.



I don't know why you're so obsessed with rapm, but in any event, that looks to be a full-season measurement of the metric whereas what is under discussion is the Finals.

Here is the highest and lowest player by +/- in the Finals (plus/minus can produce some odd results from game-to-game but over a six game series, a pattern will emerge):

DAL
Howard +25 Van Horn -31
MIA
Mourning +32 O'Neal -28

http://www.82games.com/0506/playoffs/playoffs.htm
(http://www.82games.com/0506/playoffs/playoffs.htm)

As any Heat fan can tell you, this tracks with what took place on court. Zo was far and away the Heat's most effective center in the series.

Looking at these comparisons in conjunction with the +/- figures, if James "carried" Wade in 2012, then you're right-- Wade didn't carry Shaq. He dragged him.

+/- is extremely flawed when you consider that each player's rating is heavily influenced by the play of his on-court teammates. meaning it can be extremely flawed and downright disingenuous to use. rapm, otoh, does its job fixing that, attributing the +/- to said player AND only said player.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10740818/introducing-real-plus-minus

^^ read and educate yourself on this subject - furthermore, i'm not a big proponent on basic data & flawed advanced metrics (e.g., +/- as explained by espn).. shaq's lack of volume scoring can be attributed to his constant double and triple teams off-ball, and his focus on defense & rebounding. the coaches, players, and data simply back up everything i've been saying, so i'm not really sure what your "beef" is?

i wont touch upon the wade/lebron stuff, because it's just the same, tired red-herrings in every other topic. make your own thread about it, don't derail this one with your petty agenda - cheers..

[mehyaM24]

Shaq worked with Wade for 3 1/2 years. We don't know what happened behind closed doors.

People underrate Shaq's role on the Heat. He was their MVP in the ECF that year. Without him they would not get to the Finals. Moreover, just look at Miami's record with Wade, without Shaq in 05', 06' and 07'. Then look at Miami's record with Shaq, without Wade during those same years. Shaq kept Miami afloat but without Shaq Miami consistently slipped to 0.500. Shaq's impact went beyond stats which is why he managed to have his teams remain competitive without Kobe and Wade but they were 0.500 when he was out the lineup.

emphasis on impact, the word being highlighted here.. people are too focused with raw box score numbers, and NOT the actual impact on said teams.

rebounding, defense, and various other intangibles ALWAYS seem to be ignored by casual fans.. :confusedshrug:

[HiphopRelated]

Shaq worked with Wade for 3 1/2 years. We don't know what happened behind closed doors.

People underrate Shaq's role on the Heat. He was their MVP in the ECF that year. Without him they would not get to the Finals. Moreover, just look at Miami's record with Wade, without Shaq in 05', 06' and 07'. Then look at Miami's record with Shaq, without Wade during those same years. Shaq kept Miami afloat but without Shaq Miami consistently slipped to 0.500. Shaq's impact went beyond stats which is why he managed to have his teams remain competitive without Kobe and Wade but they were 0.500 when he was out the lineup.
He was their what in the ECF?

Wade crushed Detroit, finished the job he started the year earlier before the rib injury

The '07 season was the most regular season heavy lifting Wade did his career to that point, he was playing with Chris Quinn and Jason Kapono as primary pieces because every one was hurt the 1st half of the season and he was the best player in the league. After allstar break every one comes back healthy and Wade injures his shoulder the 1st game. That was all she wrote for that era.

[Roundball_Rock]

emphasis on impact, the word being highlighted here.. people are too focused with raw box score numbers, and NOT the actual impact on said teams.

rebounding, defense, and various other intangibles ALWAYS seem to be ignored by casual fans.. :confusedshrug:

Exactly. Shaq turned Orlando, LA and Miami around--and all three collapsed after he left (or in Miami's case after he ceased to be elite). Shaq easily is the most underrated top 10 all-time player (he is #5 on my list).


He was their what in the ECF?

Wade crushed Detroit, finished the job he started the year earlier before the rib injury

Shaq had 22/11 on almost 70% in the ECF.

[PJR]

Yeah,Wade averaged 27-5-5 on 62% shooting in the East conference Finals. Shaq the MVP of that series my ass. :oldlol:

These dudes trying to revise history like we didn't watch the series. :lol

Stop it.

[L.Kizzle]

Did you see the teams that were Constructed around him? He had absolute Shit for 2 Years after Shaq left and Before Bron came. You're telling me Peak/Prime Wade with Help like LeBron/Kobe got those years wouldn't go far? He lead his team to the 2nd Round as a Rookie.

Kobe has never made it out if the 1st Round without Shaq or Gasol, but i'm sure he doesn't get Flak for that.
Gasol is not on level on Shaq/LeBron.

He had shit around him for a couple years like McGrady did also.

[jrong]

Shaq worked with Wade for 3 1/2 years. We don't know what happened behind closed doors. People underrate Shaq's role on the Heat. He was their MVP in the ECF that year.

HiphopRelated already addressed this, but this may be the most outlandish statement in this thread. Shaq was the MVP in one game of that series: Game 6, after Wade spent the day in the hospital getting dehydration treatment.

Wade averaged 26 pts in that series. Shaq did put up 21 pts, and I will say that this was the one series in that run where he offered consistent help.

But, Wade's more important statistic was this: 62%. Before the dehydration game, he was shooting 68%. If he even just shoots his normal 50% against the Ben Wallace-era Pistons, the Heat go home.

There are many Wade fans, this one included, who believe this was his best series in 06. And as HiphopRelated also explained, this was Wade's one-year deferred victory over the at the time defending champion Pistons in 05, who Wade was destroying until his Game 5 injury.

This was in his second year, while Shaq was limping around on one leg (missing half the Wizards series, in which Wade led a sweep on 31/8/7), for those of you who badly need to educate yourself on who exactly the **** Dwyane Wade is.

....As far as what was going on in the Heat locker room, according to Shaq, the Heat partied every night in 06 and Jason Williams said that at first when he came in he had no idea that the Heat even had title aspirations. So it's possible Wade deserves even more credit for that run.

And also Shaq now takes shots at Wade; he used to call him the best player in the world and said he wanted to help him become the best ever. Of course, that was after he called Kobe the best and before he called LeBron the best and Nash the best PG.

Translation: Shaq is full of shit now, just as he always has been.

[aj1987]

Exactly. Shaq turned Orlando, LA and Miami around--and all three collapsed after he left (or in Miami's case after he ceased to be elite). Shaq easily is the most underrated top 10 all-time player (he is #5 on my list).
Look at the teams after Shaq left. Wade was mostly injured in '08 and the teams in '09 and '10 were flat out garbage. They needed Wade to be one of the best offensive players in the league and a DPOY candidate to win 43 and 47 games.

Even the '05 and '06 Heat weren't that great outside Wade and Shaq. Replace Wade with another top 3 SG (other than KB) and they wouldn't get past the Pistons in '06. Replace Shaq with another great center and Miami would've probably won in 5.

[L.Kizzle]

This post is downright retarded. He never had a remotely competent team without another great player in his career (aside from his rookie season, where he made the 2nd round). The 09 & 10 season's were knowingly sacrificed for 10 free agency and the chance to construct a title-winning team - that was a sacrifice which ended in championships, and yet his team knowingly sacrificing seasons is blamed on Wade, and used to compare him to Vince Carter like a ****ing first-class imbecile.

The same argument can also be used against all those guys because no one wins on their own, and Wade won the title in 06 pretty close to single-handedly

Shaq was a physical wreck by 06 - about the same as Wade last year tbh.

Shaq and Wade were drafted 11 years apart and yet they're 'of the same era' - what a selective clown you are. You clearly have an agenda, and it explains your faulty logic here.
How is it retarted when it's true? Okay, we can put Shaq in the 90s, thats fine. Everything else it all happened. No Shaq, or LeBron he didn't get to far.

[OnFire]

Bird was the best player for many years in the league. Wade at his best, top five a few times.

My problem with Wade is without Shaq or LeBron he's not getting very far. He goes as far as a Wilkins or Vince Carter in the playoffs without a top player of all time. That's the only reason I don't have him as high as others.

He's not a top 5 player of his era, so how can he be 21-24 all time?

Kobe
Duncan
KG
Shaq
Dirk
LeBron
Iverson

At best, he's 7th or 8th if you have Iverson over him. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and have hin at 7.

7 per decade starting in 1960. That comes to about 35 players give or take a few.

So without good teammates wade doesn't go far... Then you like KOBE, who played with a BETTER SHAQ, KG who made the first recent "Big 3", Duncan (plays with 2 probably HOFs and HOF coach), Shaq... got his title with Wade dragging his ass through the finals, and Kobe on his other ones.... LeBron had Wade's ass dummy... LeBron won jack shit until he came to Miami... Iverson won nothing. BIRD PLAYED WITH MULTIPLE HOFERS

You're argument makes so little sense that it pushes all your hate to the surface.

[aj1987]

How is it retarted when it's true? Okay, we can put Shaq in the 90s, thats fine. Everything else it all happened. No Shaq, or LeBron he didn't get to far.
No Wade or Kobe and both Shaq and LeBron would probably still be ringless. :confusedshrug:

Goes both ways, buddy.

[OnFire]

How is it retarted when it's true? Okay, we can put Shaq in the 90s, thats fine. Everything else it all happened. No Shaq, or LeBron he didn't get to far.

Name 1 team that won titles without multiple super star...

The only one i can ever remember is Detroit with Ben Wallace.

Can you name another? Then shut the **** up about Wade needing other players because it is the most moronic statement a person can make...

The Shaq Wade dragged throught he playoffs was a pile of shit compared to the Shaq that Dragged Kobe through the finals yet you applaud Kobe and shit on Wade. You are a ****ing tool.

[L.Kizzle]

So without good teammates wade doesn't go far... Then you like KOBE, who played a BETTER SHAQ, KG who made the first recent "Big 3", Duncan (plays with 2 probably HOFs and HOF coach), Shaq... got his title with Wade dragging his ass through the finals, and Kobe on his other ones.... LeBron had Wade's ass dummy... LeBron won jack shit until he came to Miami... Iverson won nothing. BIRD PLAYED WITH MULTIPLE HOFERS

You're argument makes so little sense that it pushes all your hate to the surface.
When Wade had a chance on his own he got as far as McGrady and Vince Carter. When you have a chance to see a player on his own compared to with others, its quite different.

Bron also got to the Finals and made deep playoff runs.

Drexler in his own made deep playoff runs but came up short. Joined Hakeem and got one.

[mehyaM24]

Exactly. Shaq turned Orlando, LA and Miami around--and all three collapsed after he left (or in Miami's case after he ceased to be elite). Shaq easily is the most underrated top 10 all-time player (he is #5 on my list).



Shaq had 22/11 on almost 70% in the ECF.

i wouldn't say shaq was better, BUT don't forget he drew all the double & triple teams, being the teams (arguable) best defender and rebounder. his excellence in that series go well beyond his ppg output.

more interesting quotes from the coaches ATT:


"Look, Wade does a lot of good things for them," Bucks coach Terry Porter says. "But your focus is going to be on Shaq. I think most teams approach them that way. We're not going to take our eyes off the main thing in that lineup. If you have to opt for who you stop, I think most guys would opt for Shaq."

As Lakers great Magic Johnson says, "The thing he does is he makes every coach scared to death."

So, what's a coach to do? How do you handle a 7-1 behemoth with footwork, an accurate post shot and passing skill? That has been a predicament for opponents throughout O'Neal's 13-year career, one that has taken a different tack with a new team. Double-team him? Triple-team him? Focus on limiting his teammates? Foul him? Throw your hands to the heavens and hope for divine intervention? Well, we went inside the heads of three coaches over a one-week span to investigate their very different approaches to defending O'Neal and the Heat.

Heat @ Pistons 2006 ECF
It's a battle between O'Neal and Pistons coach Larry Brown, who has a well-known aversion to double-teams. That makes Brown the coach O'Neal most enjoys playing against.

"Larry Brown is from the old school," O'Neal said before facing the Pistons. "So they usually play me like that, until I get going, and then they come (double-team) later."

O'Neal had it backward. Brown was more willing to send help in the first half. The Pistons double-teamed O'Neal eight times in 32 first half possessions, and it seemed to bother him

:eek: at the bolded - this is 34 year old, past his prime shaq. dude impacted the matchups like nobody in the game.

[Prime_Shaq]

2006 Shaq was still drawing double teams like Prime Shaq did, giving way for Wade to take over which Wade delivered. They complimented each other, Shaq didn't put up his peak numbers but his numbers were pretty damn good and his impact went beyond the stats (as it normally did with Shaq)

[OnFire]

When Wade had a chance on his own he got as far as McGrady and Vince Carter. When you have a chance to see a player on his own compared to with others, its quite different.

Bron also got to the Finals and made deep playoff runs.

Drexler in his own made deep playoff runs but came up short. Joined Hakeem and got one.

Then bron got called a quitter, had his jersey burned by his "fans" then went to get Wade's help to win a title.

Drexler joined Hakeem and got 1.. but Wade still has 3. so 1>3?

Barkley is mad because he kept switching teams trying to be a title chaser and he failed at it..

Let me know when Duncan won or wins on his own....
Let me know when Kobe won or wins on his own...
You already showed Drexler didn't win on his own...


What I'm saying is... you can give me 100 facts about Wade that might knock him as a player, but "Having to have help to win a title" is not a valid one. And it makes you look stupid, since, like I said the player who won a title without the help of other elite players is Rare. Jordan didn't even do it, and none of the players you listed that are supposed to CONTRAST wade did it.. all you did was list a bunch of great players that won titles with other great players or didn't win them without other great players, which is exactly everyone's point.

[Wade's Rings]

Exactly. Shaq turned Orlando, LA and Miami around--and all three collapsed after he left (or in Miami's case after he ceased to be elite). Shaq easily is the most underrated top 10 all-time player (he is #5 on my list).



Shaq had 22/11 on almost 70% in the ECF.

The 2009 & 2010 Heat Teams Tanked for the Free Agency which landed them Bron and Bosh.

Shaq didn't turn Miami around by himself. The 2005 Team was better than the 04 Team and that has to do with a better roster and Wade improving as well.

[OnFire]

2006 Shaq was still drawing double teams like Prime Shaq did, giving way for Wade to take over which Wade delivered. They complimented each other, Shaq didn't put up his peak numbers but his numbers were pretty damn good and his impact went beyond the stats (as it normally did with Shaq)

But this guy is using Shaq in 2006 to invalidate Wade, yet lists Kobe. Was 2006 Shaq more impact than LAker titles Shaq?

If you say yes they should delete your account off this board.

[Akhenaten]

People underrate Shaq's role on the Heat. He was their MVP in the ECF that year.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/Haskel45/30c4t1g.gif

People don't underrate Shaq's role or impact, most acknowledge him as a solid number 2 which is exactly what he was. 28 ppg vs 18 ppg in the playoffs, yall act like it was 1A/1B :roll: stop is boy nobody is buying that bullcrap you're peddling.

And while Shaq had a great ECF, Wade was even better.

Shaq: 22/1/0 66% FG 2blks 4 TOPG
Wade: 27/5/6 62% 2stls, 2blks 4 TOPG

No way Shaq wins the MVP if an ECF MVP award existed, zero assists to 4 TO's as a BIGMAN is horrible, a lot of Wade's 6 asts were to Shaq BTW, who did Shaq assist NOBODY. Reason why DET purposely did NOT double him, D was focused on Wade as evidenced by the assist numbers somehow Shaq was still able to turn the ball over 4 times a game :eek:




Without him they would not get to the Finals. Moreover, just look at Miami's record with Wade, without Shaq in 05', 06' and 07'. Then look at Miami's record with Shaq, without Wade during those same years. Shaq kept Miami afloat but without Shaq Miami consistently slipped to 0.500. Shaq's impact went beyond stats which is why he managed to have his teams remain competitive without Kobe and Wade but they were 0.500 when he was out the lineup.

What do you mean "look at the numbers"?
Post the numbers goofy

you hating azz dudes just love talking out your cornhole, then wanna direct somebody to do research. You make assertions YOU back them up goofy azz dude.

for example

05 playoffs Miami up 3-2 on Detroit, Wade sits game 6, Miami gets blowed out by 23 points...FACTS

same playoffs Shaq sits games 3 & 4 of the ECSF vs the Wizards, Miami wins both games..FACTS.

you just making up stuff, hate you green ass ******, you can not like a player and KEEP IT REAL at the same time, don't make stuff up just cause you don't like bro that's stuff broads do.

[IGOTGAME]

http://gif.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/DWYANE-WADE-DIRTY-PLAYER.gif

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/607370/rondoelbow.gif

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/euLvKkoxM68/hqdefault.jpg

http://www.fullcourtpest.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/vlcsnap-2012-06-09-16h10m04s140.png

https://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/hur88.gif

http://i.minus.com/ibhTszrezUHFOY.gif

I remember the time Kobe tried to dunk on Wade and Wade leveled him.

[L.Kizzle]

Then bron got called a quitter, had his jersey burned by his "fans" then went to get Wade's help to win a title.

Drexler joined Hakeem and got 1.. but Wade still has 3. so 1>3?

Barkley is mad because he kept switching teams trying to be a title chaser and he failed at it..

Let me know when Duncan won or wins on his own....
Let me know when Kobe won or wins on his own...
You already showed Drexler didn't win on his own...


What I'm saying is... you can give me 100 facts about Wade that might knock him as a player, but "Having to have help to win a title" is not a valid one. And it makes you look stupid, since, like I said the player who won a title without the help of other elite players is Rare. Jordan didn't even do it, and none of the players you listed that are supposed to CONTRAST wade did it.. all you did was list a bunch of great players that won titles with other great players or didn't win them without other great players, which is exactly everyone's point.
Come on. Its not like I have Wade at 90 around Mitch Richmond or Kevin Johnson. I said hes around 30-40 give or take a few. Some have him around 20-30. I have guys like Frazier and R8ck Barry over him. Most here dont.

[Hey Yo]

Shaq was washed up by the 06 finals, despite playing less than 60 games, and only 30mpg. He couldn't hit a ft and Mourning was generally favoured over him at the end of close games. You are utterly delusional. It makes me wonder if you were even watching basketball in 06

Also, Ben Wallace: best and most impactful player in the league :bowdown:
Miami went 10-13 in the 23RS games Shaq missed. Plus, if Shaq was washed up, why would Miami have him avg. 35mpg in the 06 Finals?

Why bring Mourning up? Sure he may have been an emotional leader, but he appeared in all 6 games, avg. 11mpg, barely 2FGA and exactly 2FTA.

You should be looking in the mirror when talking about delusional and actually watching basketball in 06.

[Hey Yo]

Shaq was outscored by Antoine Walker in the Finals. Let that sink in. :oldlol:

Zo was more impactful in the deciding game 6 than Shaq lol.
Walker 13.8ppg -age 29 with much less mileage.
Shaq 13.7ppg - age 33 with MUCH more mileage.

[PJR]

Walker 13.8ppg -age 29 with much less mileage.
Shaq 13.7ppg - age 33 with MUCH more mileage.

Being outscored by Antoine Walker is being outscored by Antoine Walker.

Just further proves that Shaq had little left by that point, and the weight Wade had to carry in that series was significant

[greatest-ever]

Gasol is not on level on Shaq/LeBron.

He had shit around him for a couple years like McGrady did also.
The 09 & 10 versions of Gasol were as good or better than 06 Shaq, look up the numbers.

Bringing up mcgrady is completely irrelevant.

[Hey Yo]

Being outscored by Antoine Walker is being outscored by Antoine Walker.

Just further proves that Shaq had little left by that point, and the weight Wade had to carry in that series was significant
Shaq's impact on that 06 Heat team x100 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Walker's impact.

Shaq avg. 35mpg in that Finals, yet had little left in the tank at that point? :facepalm

[FPJ]

Wow, some of these "opinions" are idiotic even by ISH standard. L.Kizzle makes Euroleague look like a decent poster when he talks about V'Span.

Not even worth a serios answer.

[Wade's Rings]

Being outscored by Antoine Walker is being outscored by Antoine Walker.

Just further proves that Shaq had little left by that point, and the weight Wade had to carry in that series was significant

There was a 21pt Differential between Wade & Walker. This was the 2nd Largest Point Differential between the Finals MVP & 2nd Option. :bowdown:

[Dresta]

coaches, players (wade himself), data, and the people who actually watched the finals disagree.

keep spewing myths, sheep. :oldlol:
No, literally no one agrees with you. If you watched the ECF you would have seen where Shaq specifically said the reins had been handed over to Wade, and that much is obvious to anyone with a brain (sycophantic comments made about an all-time great who had just undergone a significant decline do not count, and have absolutely no value as evidence or proof of any sort)

It's amazing how a guy who barely played 30 mpg and carried about half the load of Wade is being called mvp. You're a lying little abortion you are


Shaq worked with Wade for 3 1/2 years. We don't know what happened behind closed doors.

People underrate Shaq's role on the Heat. He was their MVP in the ECF that year. Without him they would not get to the Finals. Moreover, just look at Miami's record with Wade, without Shaq in 05', 06' and 07'. Then look at Miami's record with Shaq, without Wade during those same years. Shaq kept Miami afloat but without Shaq Miami consistently slipped to 0.500. Shaq's impact went beyond stats which is why he managed to have his teams remain competitive without Kobe and Wade but they were 0.500 when he was out the lineup.
:roll:

Wade: 27/5/6/2/2 on 68 TS% ORTG 120 DRTG 99
Shaq: 22/11/ZERO/1/2 on 62 TS% ORTG 103 DRTG 97

Imagine for one second how this team would've looked without Wade's perimeter scoring and playmaking. In both the finals and the ECF, according to the numbers, the team was better with Shaq off the floor. So, quite frankly, it is delusional to think Shaq was the most important player on that team.

TS% is the only proper measure to use with Shaq playing as the guy shot 40% from the line in the ECF, and less than 30% in the finals :lol (find me any team that won a title with their best player shooting these numbers from the line). If Shaq was Miami's best player they would have been steamrolled in 4-5 games by Detroit, and that's supported by all the playoff numbers, bellow about regular season losses all you like (where Shaq missed more than a quarter of the season anyway, and yet was still 'worn down' even though Wade played 44mpg in the finals.

As for your latter point, it is childish and idiotically reductionist: there are myriad factors that would affect the record that can't be boiled down to the impact of one guy, but you wouldn't know that, because you're an ignoramus. Of course they wouldn't have won without Shaq - the guy was eating up all of Miami's capspace, and was the team's second best player; NO TEAM wins the title with a void in the place of their second best player. Your assertions are utterly meaningless, as usual.

[mehyaM24]

No, literally no one agrees with you. If you watched the ECF you would have seen where Shaq specifically said the reins had been handed over to Wade, and that much is obvious to anyone with a brain (sycophantic comments made about an all-time great who had just undergone a significant decline do not count, and have absolutely no value as evidence or proof of any sort)

It's amazing how a guy who barely played 30 mpg and carried about half the load of Wade is being called mvp.

yep. except for the coaches, supposed "best player", and data. meanwhile, all you have are wade groupies that sing in unison. :oldlol:

once again, dilbert, anyone who watched that season knows what shaq brought to the table - rapm, the best "impact stat" known to date, has shaq and wade roughly equal that season (the net win/loss ratio without shaq says it all).

"You're a lying little abortion you are" - what is this? your trademark cvnt talk? :oldlol:

[AirFederer]

:applause: :applause:


No, literally no one agrees with you. If you watched the ECF you would have seen where Shaq specifically said the reins had been handed over to Wade, and that much is obvious to anyone with a brain (sycophantic comments made about an all-time great who had just undergone a significant decline do not count, and have absolutely no value as evidence or proof of any sort)

It's amazing how a guy who barely played 30 mpg and carried about half the load of Wade is being called mvp. You're a lying little abortion you are


:roll:

Wade: 27/5/6/2/2 on 68 TS% ORTG 120 DRTG 99
Shaq: 22/11/ZERO/1/2 on 62 TS% ORTG 103 DRTG 97

Imagine for one second how this team would've looked without Wade's perimeter scoring and playmaking. In both the finals and the ECF, according to the numbers, the team was better with Shaq off the floor. So, quite frankly, it is delusional to think Shaq was the most important player on that team.

TS% is the only proper measure to use with Shaq playing as the guy shot 40% from the line in the ECF, and less than 30% in the finals :lol (find me any team that won a title with their best player shooting these numbers from the line). If Shaq was Miami's best player they would have been steamrolled in 4-5 games by Detroit, and that's supported by all the playoff numbers, bellow about regular season losses all you like (where Shaq missed more than a quarter of the season anyway, and yet was still 'worn down' even though Wade played 44mpg in the finals.

As for your latter point, it is childish and idiotically reductionist: there are myriad factors that would affect the record that can't be boiled down to the impact of one guy, but you wouldn't know that, because you're an ignoramus. Of course they wouldn't have won without Shaq - the guy was eating up all of Miami's capspace, and was the team's second best player; NO TEAM wins the title with a void in the place of their second best player. Your assertions are utterly meaningless, as usual.

[Roundball_Rock]

:oldlol: at people calling Shaq washed up. Shaq averaged 17/7 on 59% the following year. Moreover he, like he always did when Wade or Kobe were hurt, kept the team afloat without his star SG.

Heat record with Shaq, without Wade in 07': 21-11
Heat record with Wade, without Shaq in 07': 19-18

Shaq was bad in 2008 before a renaissance in 2009 but he remained an effective and important player in 2007. Wade stans are acting as if Shaq collapsed walking off the court of the 06' ECF and was never again a force on the court.

How about 2006?

Heat record with Shaq, without Wade in 06': 4-1
Heat record with Wade, without Shaq in 06': 11-11

So Wade "carried" the Heat to 30-29 without Shaq while Shaq went 25-12 without Wade there to "carry" him. The 30-29 mark was a preview of what was to come post-Shaq before LeBron revived Miami.

Shaq is easily the most underrated top 10 all-time player.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:oldlol: at people calling Shaq washed up. Shaq averaged 17/7 on 59% the following year. Moreover he, like he always did when Wade or Kobe were hurt, kept the team afloat without his star SG.

Heat record with Shaq, without Wade in 07': 21-11
Heat record with Wade, without Shaq in 07': 19-18

Shaq was bad in 2008 before a renaissance in 2009 but he remained an effective and important player in 2007. Wade stans are acting as if Shaq collapsed walking off the court of the 06' ECF and was never again a force on the court.

How about 2006?

Heat record with Shaq, without Wade in 06': 4-1
Heat record with Wade, without Shaq in 06': 11-11

So Wade "carried" the Heat to 30-29 without Shaq while Shaq went 25-12 without Wade there to "carry" him. The 30-29 mark was a preview of what was to come post-Shaq before LeBron revived Miami.

Shaq is easily the most underrated top 10 all-time player.

Wade was the teams best player in 2006, in my opinion; however, you and mehyA make GREAT points. Shaq's impact is getting massively underrated on ISH.

OT: Shame there isn't a CavaliersFTW to do Wilt-like videos for Shaq :mad:

[Wade's Rings]

:oldlol: at people calling Shaq washed up. Shaq averaged 17/7 on 59% the following year. Moreover he, like he always did when Wade or Kobe were hurt, kept the team afloat without his star SG.

Heat record with Shaq, without Wade in 07': 21-11
Heat record with Wade, without Shaq in 07': 19-18

Shaq was bad in 2008 before a renaissance in 2009 but he remained an effective and important player in 2007. Wade stans are acting as if Shaq collapsed walking off the court of the 06' ECF and was never again a force on the court.

How about 2006?

Heat record with Shaq, without Wade in 06': 4-1
Heat record with Wade, without Shaq in 06': 11-11

So Wade "carried" the Heat to 30-29 without Shaq while Shaq went 25-12 without Wade there to "carry" him. The 30-29 mark was a preview of what was to come post-Shaq before LeBron revived Miami.

Shaq is easily the most underrated top 10 all-time player.


In 2007 Wade had Kapono as his 2nd Option with most of the Team injured. IIRC, Coach Riley missed A Lot of Time as well with some Personal Issues. When Shaq was playing in the 2nd Half of the Season he had a different Squad.

You're not mentioning which Teams they faced as a Possible Factor. In 2006 Wade played the 50 win Cavaliers, 54 win Suns, 62 win Spurs without Shaq, off the top of my head. Who did Shaq play against?

You mention it was a preview of things to come, when Wade's Teams tanked on Purpose for the 2010 Free Agency. Wade had a Rookie Coach, Rookies in Chalmers & Beasley, Low IQ Players, Washed JO, those Teams were absolute Trash. Has Shaq ever had a team that bad?

Lastly, In the Playoffs, Wade is 2-0 without Shaq. Shaq is 0-1 without Wade. Dat Impact :bowdown:

[Dresta]

:oldlol: at people calling Shaq washed up. Shaq averaged 17/7 on 59% the following year. Moreover he, like he always did when Wade or Kobe were hurt, kept the team afloat without his star SG.

Heat record with Shaq, without Wade in 07': 21-11
Heat record with Wade, without Shaq in 07': 19-18

Shaq was bad in 2008 before a renaissance in 2009 but he remained an effective and important player in 2007. Wade stans are acting as if Shaq collapsed walking off the court of the 06' ECF and was never again a force on the court.

How about 2006?

Heat record with Shaq, without Wade in 06': 4-1
Heat record with Wade, without Shaq in 06': 11-11

So Wade "carried" the Heat to 30-29 without Shaq while Shaq went 25-12 without Wade there to "carry" him. The 30-29 mark was a preview of what was to come post-Shaq before LeBron revived Miami.

Shaq is easily the most underrated top 10 all-time player.
Fantastic sample size with not the slightest bit of context. Are you not aware that there are about a thousand other factors that would have contributed to those numbers? The fact they missed different parts of the schedule, for a start, with Shaq missing early games (and being a general locker-room cancer), when it was an old team coming off a title win, out of shape and unprepared; and Wade missing the latter portion of the season, when the team was fighting for pride and playoff berth. You've posted those idiotic numbers something like a hundred times by now, and you use that childish method of yours incessantly, without any regard whatsoever for whether it actually says anything of value (which such a simplistic comparison can almost never do :oldlol: ).

We saw where that Miami team stood in the playoffs without a dominant (and non-injured) Wade that very same season, as we did when he got injured against the Pistons in the 05 playoffs.

[Wade's Rings]

We saw where that Miami team stood in the playoffs without a dominant (and non-injured) Wade that very same season, as we did when he got injured against the Pistons in the 05 playoffs.

Shaq loses in 05 & 07 with an injured Wade. Wade Wins a Title with a Shaq who claims to have been left at 30-50% from an injury the Previous year. Greatness :bowdown:

[navy]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-z0dXIs-OaCE/U81YF2lhFfI/AAAAAAAADZU/6EqjV4I_caU/s1600/2.jpg


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-cgU2vPxzFl8/U81YF48xM5I/AAAAAAAADZY/0tzAPf4i4ZU/s1600/1.jpg

[navy]

Those are just the Stats. If you watch the series you'd know that Shaq wasnt even comparable to Wade when the playoffs rolled around.

[Smoke117]

Being outscored by Antoine Walker is being outscored by Antoine Walker.

Just further proves that Shaq had little left by that point, and the weight Wade had to carry in that series was significant


Walker was taking 14.5 shots to average those 13.8 points. He was fcuking garbage. This whole Shaq and Wade shit? I don't care and I'm not going to get into it...but Antoine Walker sucked a fat dick.

[aj1987]

In 2007 Wade had Kapono as his 2nd Option with most of the Team injured. IIRC, Coach Riley missed A Lot of Time as well with some Personal Issues. When Shaq was playing in the 2nd Half of the Season he had a different Squad.

You're not mentioning which Teams they faced as a Possible Factor. In 2006 Wade played the 50 win Cavaliers, 54 win Suns, 62 win Spurs without Shaq, off the top of my head. Who did Shaq play against?

Lastly you mention it was a preview of things to come, when Wade's Teams tanked on Purpose for the 2010 Free Agency. Wade had a Rookie Coach, Rookies in Chalmers & Beasley, Low IQ Players, Washed JO, those Teams were absolute Trash. Has Shaq ever had a team that bad?

Lastly In the Playoffs, Wade is 2-0 without Shaq. Shaq is 0-1 without Wade. Dat Impact :bowdown:
:eek:

Ether!

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Duncan (plays with 2 probably HOFs and HOF coach)


Let me know when Duncan won or wins on his own....

:biggums:

'03 never happened? Second year Parker and rookie Manu are HOF players? HOF coach when the game plan in those days was give the ball to Duncan and get out of the way? Second option Parker averaging 14 ppg?

:roll:

[JohnFreeman]

A comment in a youtube video says Wade asked for Barkley to be in the TMobile commercials, because Barkley was going bankrupt?

[No_Look604]

Because he wears female capri pants that show off his ankles?:confusedshrug:

[FlashDwyaneWade3]

The hell is Shaq's problem? He's always jealous of his teammates who help the guy win Championships, get to the Finals and were as dominant as he was? He has a problem with Kobe, D-Wade and Penny taking his shine.

[GOBB]

Wade jokes about Barkley & Shaq, their reply:

Barkley: "He could take my job, he ain't playing."
Shaq: "He ain't done nothing since LeBron left."

.

So no link to Charles and Shaq saying what the OP typed? :confusedshrug:

[FlashDwyaneWade3]

So no link to Charles and Shaq saying what the OP typed? :confusedshrug:
https://twitter.com/MrMichaelLee/status/566455234252505088

[Ruler]

Because DWade is a total a-hole. I've been vacationing to a place called Turks and Caicos Islands in the Caribbean and talked / played basketball with a lot of the employees and locals. They've met a ton of NBA players and I've met a few there as well (it's the beaches resort, great place, all inclusive, go there if you can!).
Basically, this tall dude named Bane (an employee and photographer) saw Manu Ginobili and Dwyane Wade after the 2013 NBA Finals. Yes, the won the Miami Heat won via Ray Allen miracle. What he said, and others backed him up, was that Ginobili (even after the bitter loss) was very happy and friendly with everyone, signing autographs and taking tons of puctures with everyone. Wade, on the other hand, was a total jerk and wouldn't speak to anyone or take pictures or anything. He looked down upon everyone else there.
Now I know it would get annoying after 10 years just trying to vacation and having random people flocking around you, but at least be a nice guy. I met Tracy McGrady there as well as Juwan Howard, both in their primes, and they were super friendly. I was just a little guy at the time and it really left a good impression on me, so I always have respect for both of those men.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Those are just the Stats. If you watch the series you'd know that Shaq wasnt even comparable to Wade when the playoffs rolled around.

i'm just glad you highlighted Shaqs assist numbers and left out his rebounding and blocks to make sure Shaq looked as good as he could in that comparison

[DatAsh]

Barry
Havlicek
Erving
Frazier
Reed
Cowens

I did say give or take a few. That's five including Kareem. I didn't even include MVPs Wes Unseld, Gervin, Hayes and McAdoo.

50s
Mikan
Cousy

60s
Russell
Wilt
Pettit
Baylor
West
O

80s
Magic
Bird
Moses
Zeke

90s
Jordan
Hakeem
Malone
Barkley
Robinson
Stockton
Pippen
Drexler

Than you have players on the fence like Schayes, Arizin, Unseld, Hayes, McAdoo, Gervin, McHale, Ewing, Payton, Kidd, Nash.

I'd say he was definitely a better player than green, definitely worse than red, and comparable to blue. Of the guys in blue, I'd rate him below Havlicek, Pettit, Barry, and above Nash.

I'm sure my rankings are far from the norm. I definitely use the knowledge of those that come before me, but I also try to think for myself(you seem to do the same).

Of the players listed, ones I think most posters - including knowledgeable posters - overrate

Thomas - I feel he's given too much credit for being the leader and main option of those championship teams; he was, but I think people underrate the impact of guys like Rodman.

Cousy - Innovator and trend setter, but no where near the impact he's given credit for. He lead generally average to worst in the league offenses after Macauley left. It's not like he didn't have the help either; guys like Tom Heinsohn(underrated), Sam Jones(underrated), and Bill Russell were good to great offensive players relative to their positional peers.


Ones I think most posters underrate -

Havlicek - people focus on stats and offense, yet completely ignore that he was one of the best perimeter defenders ever. Compare him to someone like Pippen(who generally gets a fair shake from reasonable fans): He's a comparable defender and passer, and a MUCH better scorer, yet I often see them ranked very close together. Other than Russell, Hondo is the biggest reason the Celtics were the best defensive team in the league in the very late 60s. And although the Celtic defense dropped of hard after Russell left, Hondo kept it afloat about as well as any perimeter player could hope to do.

Nash - People unfairly criticize him for his defense, when offense is like 90% of the value that comes from the PG position. He's likely the third best offensive pg ever after Magic and Oscar, and probably a top 10 offensive player ever, yet he's ranked in the high 40s to 60s for his defense.

Ewing - underrated purely for who he was up against at his position(Hakeem and Robinson). He's one of the best defenders ever, and would be up there close to Davis in terms of offense. I think he should be in the mid to high 20s with guys like Pippen.

Robinson - underrated for his lack of team success. He would be in my top 5 defenders ever, he's one of the best scorers ever at the center position, and a great passer at his position as well. I don't think there's been 20 better basketball players than David Robinson.