If The Lakers didn't become a trainwreck, Kobe could have made a run at G.O.A.T

[russwest0]

Could have been the Brady of the NBA.... everybody counted the guy out and then he goes on the biggest stage and demolishes one of the best defenses ever to solidify his status as GOAT.

Just the type of shit I could see Kobe doing if he was put in the right setting IMO.

Sucks that Stern vetoed the Paul trade because the Lakers could have traded Chris Paul for an impact playoff performer to pair alongside Kobe, then they'd just have to get a quality big or two and convince PJ to come back and they would have been set.

[Warfan]

Nah, i think it was already clear before that point of his career that he wasn't the GOAT. Let's not act like kobe has been dealt a shitty hand either, far from it actually.

That subtle jab at CP3 :lol

[russwest0]

Nah, i think it was already clear before that point of his career that he wasn't the GOAT. Let's not act like kobe has been dealt a shitty hand either, far from it actually.

:facepalm He's had to deal with guys like Bynum and Odom going off the deep end, the Lakers FO being too stupid to hire Phil back when they had the chance, hiring dumb coaches like D'Antoni, Mike Brown, etc.

Give him a more stable, consistent management/staff with some talented guys that can contend for the later third of his career? He could easily have 6 rings right now.

[Warfan]

:facepalm He's had to deal with guys like Bynum and Odom going off the deep end, the Lakers FO being too stupid to hire Phil back when they had the chance, hiring dumb coaches like D'Antoni, Mike Brown, etc.

Give him a more stable, consistent management/staff with some talented guys that can contend for the later third of his career? He could easily have 6 rings right now.

I meant over his career as a whole, played on some very talented teams with few seasons where he didn't have a good cast around him . Yes the Lakers FO has fukked up as of late but even if he won 6 it wouldn't make him the GOAT. Boost his legacy? Probably, yeah...but I don't see him making a run at GOAT.

[russwest0]

I meant over his career as a whole, played on some very talented teams with few seasons where he didn't have a good cast around him . Yes the Lakers FO has fukked up as of late but even if he won 6 it wouldn't make him the GOAT. Boost his legacy? Probably, yeah...but I don't see him making a run at GOAT.

Lets say he wins a ring 2 years ago back at age 34... Dude would be sitting with 6 alpha rings and 5-6 more years to make a run at surpassing MJ....

also semi-O.T. I don't know why Kobe gets so underrated now. How quickly people forget the hype surrounding prime Kobe... N*ggas was all over the media calling him better than Jordan.

[You Cant Ban Me]

You have to do one of these 3 things to be in the goat discussion.Average 28/6/6 as a rookie,Average 40 points on more in at least one finals, or never go undefeated in the finals.Kobe would/could never do any of those 3 things so he never had a shot @ goat sorry OP

[Spurs m8]

What a ridiculous thread

[Cocaine80s]

You have to do one of these 3 things to be in the goat discussion.Average 28/6/6 as a rookie,Average 40 points on more in at least one finals, or never go undefeated in the finals.Kobe would/could never do any of those 3 things so he never had a shot @ goat sorry OP
So Kobe is in the goat discussion?

[Jasper]

This thread / OP and posters seem to be forgetting something :
:facepalm
Jordan did not come out of high school like Kobe.

Jordan retired in his prime and went to play baseball.

Lets see:
If Jordan didn't play college ball, didn't play baseball and kept with the same organization , he might of had 12 rings.
:facepalm
/

[J Shuttlesworth]

Honestly, the ring count is a bit irrelevant for me. Having watched both players, Jordan is better in nearly every aspect. Kobe would have to prove on the court that he's > Jordan with his play, not just winning with his franchise

[lilteapot]

:facepalm He's had to deal with guys like Bynum and Odom going off the deep end, the Lakers FO being too stupid to hire Phil back when they had the chance, hiring dumb coaches like D'Antoni, Mike Brown, etc.

Give him a more stable, consistent management/staff with some talented guys that can contend for the later third of his career? He could easily have 6 rings right now.
You're right, he could have 6 rings now, and he had a chance in 2008, but it didn't happen. So stop trying to make excuses. I'm a Kobe fan but I'm also realistic.

[Demon Lizard]

Kobe is a huge reason why the Lakers became a train wreck, so nope. He scared the Lakers management into trading away Shaq after they went to the Finals.

[russwest0]

Kobe is a huge reason why the Lakers became a train wreck, so nope. He scared the Lakers management into trading away Shaq after they went to the Finals.

since then? Shaq 1 ring, Kobe 2 rings

:bowdown:

[sportjames23]

What a ridiculous thread


Gonna have to agree.

russ, you slippin', breh.

[HOoopCityJones]

Kobe is a huge reason why the Lakers became a train wreck, so nope. He scared the Lakers management into trading away Shaq after they went to the Finals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7LOi1F4DwE

Why you lying

[Demon Lizard]

since then? Shaq 1 ring, Kobe 2 rings

:bowdown:

Well yeah, because Shaq was out of his prime. But imagine them together a couple more years. I'm thinking more vets would have still jumped on that bandwagon helping them get 2-3 more rings before Shaq was done. Either way though, that would be the scenario in which the team doesn't become a train wreck, and Kobe wouldn't have passed Jordan because of still not having enough rings as "the man."

[ImKobe]

Kobe is a huge reason why the Lakers became a train wreck, so nope. He scared the Lakers management into trading away Shaq after they went to the Finals.

No, Shaq wanted a huge extension (30mil+) and Kobe wanted #1 money, FO had to choose between the two and Kobe was obviously going to be the man moving forward....Shaq was old and on his last great year(s) (putting up 13/11 in the Finals less than 2 years removed) and didn't back down.

It would have been fine if Shaq post-3Peat had given the reigns over to Kobe instead of bitching and coming into camp fat as hell.

I love how people still put it on Kobe though. Shaq was no saint.

[ralph_i_el]

If Kobe took a paycut and didn't chase away good players with his attitude, maybe the Lakers wouldn't have become a trainwreck

[Demon Lizard]

Shaq was no saint.

Everybody knows Shaq was super immature.

[russwest0]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7LOi1F4DwE

Why you lying

Yup. Shaq shamelessly admitting that he left LA for more money :lol

[HOoopCityJones]

Kobe is a huge reason why the Lakers became a train wreck, so nope. He scared the Lakers management into trading away Shaq after they went to the Finals.



Everybody knows Shaq was super immature.


:biggums:

[HOoopCityJones]

If Kobe took a paycut and didn't chase away good players with his attitude, maybe the Lakers wouldn't have become a trainwreck


Can I get a list of the players Kobe chased away with his attitude outside of Dwight's crybaby ass?

[tpols]

If Kobe took a paycut and didn't chase away good players with his attitude, maybe the Lakers wouldn't have become a trainwreck
It wouldn't have mattered because dwight is washed up and done.. we saw pau + dwight in the playoffs without Kobe.. old man Duncan took a steaming shit on him. And his current teams are perennial first round exits.

Pau is still capable offensively but look at his defense.. He has almost singlehandedly dragged the bulls once great defense down to mediocre. He's a soft rim protector nowadays and has been for a while. The bulls would be better off with Taj starting since he's much tougher younger and better at defending even if he's not as polished offensively.

They would've had no chance anyway...

Only way it was possible is if stern didn't veto the Chris Paul trade.. co3, Kobe,and peak Bynum in 2012 could've made some noise.. Kobe was tired by the end of the games against the thunder and made a ton of mistakes dribbling and passing,choking the series away.. I can only wonder what would've happened if Chris Paul was handling the ball then..probably would've at least made the finals and had a chance.

And then in 2013 Kobe wouldn't have had to taken such a ridiculous large load which ended up with him in a wheelchair.. because Paul could've helped a lot with that. So they got screwed again there.

Phil also probably comes back if Paul is on the team.. that veto screwed last more than anything Kobe ever did

[russwest0]

If Kobe took a paycut and didn't chase away good players with his attitude, maybe the Lakers wouldn't have become a trainwreck

what attitude? you talking about the fact that he competes nonstop in every practice and doesn't hold anything back as soon as he sees a competition forming?

Some guys can't handle playing against a true competitor every day in practice, I get that, but I don't think thats Kobe's fault. It's the main reason he's a 5 time champion, because his work ethic and drive.

It's like he said, you can either eat with him (Shaq) or run from him (Dwight). He doesn't give a shit either way.

[AirBourne92]

I meant over his career as a whole, played on some very talented teams with few seasons where he didn't have a good cast around him . Yes the Lakers FO has fukked up as of late but even if he won 6 it wouldn't make him the GOAT. Boost his legacy? Probably, yeah...but I don't see him making a run at GOAT.


a lot of people already see his effectiveness as a GOAT candidate, even a top 3 and top 5 player candidate.

rankings at the end of the day are opinions

[ralph_i_el]

what attitude? you talking about the fact that he competes nonstop in every practice and doesn't hold anything back as soon as he sees a competition forming?

Some guys can't handle playing against a true competitor every day in practice, I get that, but I don't think thats Kobe's fault. It's the main reason he's a 5 time champion, because his work ethic and drive.

It's like he said, you can either eat with him (Shaq) or run from him (Dwight). He doesn't give a shit either way.

yup, everybody wants to play with Kobe. Free agents have lined up to come to LA the last few years!

[Demon Lizard]

:biggums:

Those don't contradict each other. :confusedshrug:

[Moonbeam]

He's an all-time great, but I don't think he would have been a legitimate GOAT candidate no matter how many titles his teams won after 2010. His performance slipped and great as he was, I don't think he ever put together the individual dominance of guys like MJ, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Magic, etc. had he kept it up, though, he'd probably be solidly in the top 10.

[Cold soul]

He's an all-time great, but I don't think he would have been a legitimate GOAT candidate no matter how many titles his teams won after 2010. His performance slipped and great as he was, I don't think he ever put together the individual dominance of guys like MJ, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Magic, etc. had he kept it up, though, he'd probably be solidly in the top 10.

I agree with some of this post Kobe never had the dominance of MJ, Kareem, or Wilt but if Kobe would of won in 04 and 08 he would've been ranked second or third on my GOAT list for me those defenses were all-time great defensive units top 5 for me. I mean 7 rings, 3 FMVP few more regular seasons MVP he should of won in 06/07 based on resume alone that's top three at worst five.

[Hey Yo]

Lets say he wins a ring 2 years ago back at age 34... Dude would be sitting with 6 alpha rings and 5-6 more years to make a run at surpassing MJ....

also semi-O.T. I don't know why Kobe gets so underrated now. How quickly people forget the hype surrounding prime Kobe... N*ggas was all over the media calling him better than Jordan.
:oldlol: :biggums:

[Cold soul]

Peak Kobe was greater than both Magic and Bird when you factor in other side of court which is defense never were on the level of a defender young Kobe was.

[sportjames23]

Peak Kobe was greater than both Magic and Bird when you factor in other side of court which is defense never were on the level of a defender young Kobe was.


But Magic and Bird were better at assists than Kobe doe.

[Cold soul]

But Magic and Bird were better at assists than Kobe doe.

Yes, but to me Kobe the greater individual talent than both. I will say Magic and Bird had better intangibles, leaderships than Kobe ever did.

[Hey Yo]

It wouldn't have mattered because dwight is washed up and done.. we saw pau + dwight in the playoffs without Kobe.. old man Duncan took a steaming shit on him. And his current teams are perennial first round exits.

Pau is still capable offensively but look at his defense.. He has almost singlehandedly dragged the bulls once great defense down to mediocre. He's a soft rim protector nowadays and has been for a while. The bulls would be better off with Taj starting since he's much tougher younger and better at defending even if he's not as polished offensively.

They would've had no chance anyway...

Only way it was possible is if stern didn't veto the Chris Paul trade.. co3, Kobe,and peak Bynum in 2012 could've made some noise.. Kobe was tired by the end of the games against the thunder and made a ton of mistakes dribbling and passing,choking the series away.. I can only wonder what would've happened if Chris Paul was handling the ball then..probably would've at least made the finals and had a chance.

And then in 2013 Kobe wouldn't have had to taken such a ridiculous large load which ended up with him in a wheelchair.. because Paul could've helped a lot with that. So they got screwed again there.

Phil also probably comes back if Paul is on the team.. that veto screwed last more than anything Kobe ever did
Soon to forget that Dwight was coming back from off-season back surgery? Then tore the labrum in his shoulder in January of that season?

It was easy to see that Dwight wasn't the same player he was in his last full year with Orlando.

[Showtime2001]

yup, everybody wants to play with Kobe. Free agents have lined up to come to LA the last few years!http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2014/12/16/kevin-durant-kobe-bryant-lakers/20506671/

[I<3NBA]

Kobe made the Lakers a trainwreck. and even if he didn't, he will never touch GOAT status for the simple fact that he will never be better than the man who holds that status now.

[SwayDizzle]

Kobe is currently GOAT #5

[ShawkFactory]

To make a real run a the GOAT the player making the run needs to be better or as good as the existing GOAT.

Kobe was not.

[kamil]

I am grateful that the Lakers are a trainwreck. It's nice to see a change of pace in teams getting some spotlight for once. The endless decades of entitlement and success of the Lakers has gone long enough and makes me want to vomit.

Enjoy the run of complete irrelevance Laker fans! :cheers:

[inclinerator]

banned

[toxicxr6]

No chance

That fate was already sealed when kobe didn't win a single fmvp in the 3 peat. He wasn't even the best player on his team during his teams most successful period.. And the dude only has one league mvp.. In no way does a player with one league mvp belong in an argument like this