Larry Bird, Bill Walton and the perpendicular pick and roll

[KevinNYC]

Saw this compilation of Bird and Walton playing off each other.
It has a lot of examples of a move I heard Bird talk about once in an interview, but didn't remember seeing.

The normal pick and roll has the pick coming from the left or right of the defender. 180 degrees let's say.

This one is not left/right. It's forward and back, the pick is behind the defender. 90 degrees from the standard pick and roll if you will.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YJsDaDcFZM#t=161
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YJsDaDcFZM#t=224

Bird said no one could really stop this move. And it worked because Walton was such a great passer and had great vision. Walton would post up and Bird would pass it to him down low. Bird would then go right at Walton and at the last minute go either right of left depending on how the defender was following him. Walton would be able to find him either way.

Is there a name for this perpendicular pick and roll?

[KevinNYC]

Also check out the non-bounce pass between the legs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YJsDaDcFZM#t=317

[KevinNYC]

Also check out the non-bounce pass between the legs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YJsDaDcFZM#t=317
Good article on how Walton approached the Celtics with the idea of being a backup. Includes this which I never heard before, Bird was thinking of sitting out 1986 due to his back!
:wtf:


Boston had combined the greatest passing center with the greatest passing forward in the game. The result was an exhibition of ball movement and team play, led by Walton and Bird, that left the rest of the NBA in the dust.

They roared out on a winning tear that converted doubters at every stop. "Right now, there's no doubt that Boston is a much better team," Magic Johnson said in February 1986 after the Celtics beat the Los Angeles Lakers in the Forum to extend their record to 41-9. On their way to a club-record 67-15 season, the Celtics would post a winning record against every team in the league.

Few people foresaw this amazing turnaround, including Bird, who had contemplated sitting out the 1986 season because of back pain. But the acquisition of Walton and guard Jerry Sichting from Indiana had convinced him it would be wise to hang around and see how things turned out. His reward was the kind of season that even superstars dream about. He averaged 25.8 points and nearly seven assists, two steals and 10 rebounds. He shot .423 from three-point range and finished first in the league in free-throw percentage. For the second consecutive season, Bird broke the 2,000-point mark. And he finished the year with 10 triple-doubles.

[DatAsh]

Walton was such a great passer. :cheers:

[brooks_thompson]

Thanks for this; even though the trolling on this forum occasionally results in high humor (not surprising due to the massive amount of it), posts like these are the reason I still check out the forum lately.

[Harison]

Beautiful, simply beautiful :applause:

[LAZERUSS]

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[PHILA]

Sixers used to do this a lot with Wilt as well, where he would act as the passer and screener.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngg3owcJl1g&t=2m48s


Typically it would be a handoff pass but he could hit the cutters as well as anyone from all angles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lnu5vMfPtbw&t=2m32s


Below we can see two fake passes followed by a power move to the basket, drawing four defenders and finding an open Billy Cunningham.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0faQ-6RJyA&t=3m37s

[bdreason]

This play works 99% of the time at the park. I love to play in the post, and I'm always telling guys to post and cut for easy buckets. They key is the bigman on the post has to have good hands, good footwork, good court-vision and passing skills.

My favorite way to run the play is to flash to the high post, reverse-pivot on the catch so I'm now faced-up in the triple threat, then use my butt to screen my teammates defender as my teammate slashes to the paint. At that point I have the option to bounce-pass or lob to my teammate, shoot the jumper, or fake the pass/shot and drive the lane. Easily the most powerful position on the court.

Unfortunately it's not as effective against a zone, which is why I said it's mostly effective at the park. I coach HS basketball and we play almost exclusively against zone defenses. While I still emphasize the high-post pass against the zone defense, it's designed to open up the court for shooters and slashers, not necessarily for screeners or cutters.

[KevinNYC]

Sixers used to do this a lot with Wilt as well, where he would act as the passer and screener.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngg3owcJl1g&t=2m48s


Typically it would be a handoff pass but he could hit the cutters as well as anyone from all angles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lnu5vMfPtbw&t=2m32s

Below we can see two fake passes followed by a power move to the basket, drawing four defenders and finding an open Billy Cunningham.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0faQ-6RJyA&t=3m37sSeems different than the two man game Walton and Bird were running.

[SHAQisGOAT]

:applause:

That play was very hard to guard... Walton's arguably the GOAT passing center, could score from down-low, high IQ player, strong with the pick; then you had Bird who was tall, terrific passer, highly intelligent, could shoot it or go for the layup...

They got many buckets running that play.
Many options to score when you think about it, but that "way" was beautiful to watch.

[Straight_Ballin]

Wow, an actual post on here worth reading that doesn't contain the typical bran stan nonsense. Would read again.

[CP343]

Walton was such a great passer. :cheers:

Absolutely. That is why he was still effective after his leg problems.

[Suguru101]

Walton and Bird. :applause:

[colts19]

.Bill may not have been the dominate scorer that KAJ, Wilt and Shaq were, but I would rather watch his teams play than anyone else. Always great ball movement and it was beautiful to watch.

[Thorpesaurous]

The guy who reminded me some of Walton, although not really physically similar at all to prime Walton, but had a lot of late Walton qualities, was Yao. The used to run some similar action off of him in Houston too. One of the tricks to this is that you need space behind that post player so that you can threaten it. To get that you need a post player who's effective from a mid post area without necessarily facing up. Yao's turnaround at his height allowed that.

This is the reason Tex Winter always said Walton was his dream triangle player. And MJ has some of these types of highlights too, but because he was smaller that triangle action cleared out more than it's intended. And the Shaq Triangle, while also producing some of this, also sat a little too deep.

[KevinNYC]

interesting little footnote here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vTGoG53bF4

the overall video does not prove the guy's point at all.

[KevinNYC]

interesting little footnote here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vTGoG53bF4

the overall video does not prove the guy's point at all.

1986 Celtics vs Lakers.
Walton
16 minutes
11 points
8 rebounds
7 blocks
.833 FG%

:bowdown:

[Rizko]

The guy who reminded me some of Walton, although not really physically similar at all to prime Walton, but had a lot of late Walton qualities, was Yao. The used to run some similar action off of him in Houston too. One of the tricks to this is that you need space behind that post player so that you can threaten it. To get that you need a post player who's effective from a mid post area without necessarily facing up. Yao's turnaround at his height allowed that.

This is the reason Tex Winter always said Walton was his dream triangle player. And MJ has some of these types of highlights too, but because he was smaller that triangle action cleared out more than it's intended. And the Shaq Triangle, while also producing some of this, also sat a little too deep.
Interesting comparison. I've always felt like Walton was a better version of current Marc Gasol. Fair comparison?

I've also felt like Noah was kinda a mediocore version of Bill Russell, without the insane athleticism and all that entails, and without the outlet passing? Another fair comp?

Also I'm sure your busy but you should update that thread you and Da KO king used to discuss bball strategy and stuff. GOAT ish bball related thread (i learned more from that one thread about ball then every other post in ISH history.)

[Thorpesaurous]

Interesting comparison. I've always felt like Walton was a better version of current Marc Gasol. Fair comparison?

I've also felt like Noah was kinda a mediocore version of Bill Russell, without the insane athleticism and all that entails, and without the outlet passing? Another fair comp?

Also I'm sure your busy but you should update that thread you and Da KO king used to discuss bball strategy and stuff. GOAT ish bball related thread (i learned more from that one thread about ball then every other post in ISH history.)


Thanks,

I haven't seen that thread in forever. KO and I used to email each other a lot too.

I can see where you're coming from with the Gasol stuff, because he's a great passer and defender, but he plays way higher and from the top than Walton did, and that's going based on footage I've seen, because my personal experience with him was in Boston when he was really old and I was really young. Young Pao is probably a better comp honestly. He was also an elite passer as a big, but he played more in that mid post back to the basket, and scored more regularly in the traditional big manner. Walton did his share of high post damage, but he was getting entry's from the wings and playing high low, while Gasol is running more pick and pop and facing and getting the ball jammed into him from the top. He also moved better, and although not as good a defender as his brother, probably defended more in the style of Walton than his brother does, who's more into taking up space than covering ground the way Walton did.

I also get the Noah Russell thing. I imagine super high energy, excellent passing and all around team play on offense, with defensive instincts all over the place. Unfortunately to get any more sense of Russell at this point as a player just seemingly is never going to happen. I've heard Duncan, I've heard Garnett, I've heard Dennis Rodman. People will throw Ben Wallace out there too.