View Full Version : Welcome to Motor City, Reggie Jackson
Aussie Dunker
02-19-2015, 07:11 PM
In: Reggie Jackson, Tay Prince
Out: Augustin, Singler, jerebko, Datome
Projected starting lineup,
C - Dre
PF - Moose
SF - Prince
SG - KCP
PG - Jackson
Pretty excited to see what this unit can do. Let's see if Jackson really is a stud. Prince is getting on in age, but he is still a great complimentary glue guy, a leader, a defender, a smart basketball player that makes smart plays.
On paper it looks like we really lost that particular trade. Jackson and Augustin seem like they're at very similar skill levels. OKC looks like they won getting a very good backup PG and Kanter who can really help them down low. Augustin was putting up pretty good numbers. I'm not sure Jackson's will be significantly better.
I think the Prince for Jerebko & Datome is irrelevant. Prince is pretty much done at this point. Jerebko and Datome aren't even rotation players.
Reggie wants to be a starter. I wonder what all that means for Jennings. SVG must be thinking about trading him in the off season.
Aussie Dunker
02-19-2015, 09:18 PM
I guess Reggie auditions for the future PG role - if he finishes the season strong and shows a heap, then I'd say we offer him a big contract, and look to move Jennings who will only have 1 year left on his contract,
If Jackson disappointing, then we don't need to re-sign him, we can stick with Jennings and sell it to him that the only reason we got Jackson was a short term lease to push for playoffs this year.
This gives us flexibility
And in my opinion Jackson is a fair bit of an upgrade over DJ (I really like DJ). Jackson seems like he has far better tools for the way this league is built and is still a couple of years away from reaching his prime...
I'm not the only one that thinks Detroit lost that trade.
http://www.detroitbadboys.com/2015/2/19/8072587/nba-trade-detroit-pistons-reggie-jackson-dj-augustin-analysis
ZMonkey11
02-20-2015, 06:37 PM
SVG cut off Josh Smith. Pistons go on a tear. Pistons are now 1.5 games out of the playoffs after being considered, by some, the worst franchise in the league.
In SVG I trust.
Aussie Dunker
02-20-2015, 10:45 PM
Reggie Jackson?... Brandon Jennings? Pffft...
In Spencer we trust!
Dinwiddie 12/8 and 3 steals and +19 whilst on the floor Vs Derrick Rose 8/2 with 6 turnovers and -19 whilst on the floor....
I do want Dinwiddie to get a chance. We need to see what we have with these young guys.
insidehoops
02-21-2015, 02:49 PM
Van Gundy sees in Jackson a terrific pick-and-roll player who should flourish in that role when paired with Andre Drummond. Jackson's primary pick-and-roll option in Oklahoma City was finding an open Kevin Durant, so there'll be an adjustment period, but the center-point guard pick and roll is the staple of Van Gundy's offense and he now has two young players
Aussie Dunker
02-21-2015, 09:28 PM
Well Jenning's was looking great this year in that pick and roll with Dre. I still find it interesting how everyone is labeling Jackson the PG of our future when he is going to be a free agent at the end of the year AND we have Jennings still on our team.
If it were me, I wouldn't be saying too much - see how Jackson goes for the rest of the year, treat the rest of the season like an audition - if he dominates, then we sign him long term and label him PG of the future - if he under achieves / struggles, then we don't HAVE to sign him, we stick with Jennings and we tell Jennings the only reason we made the trade for Jackson was to make a playoff push for THIS year (but we had no intention of signing him long term becuase we are well and truly behind you, Brandon)...
Either way, i'm excited to see what he can do - a LOT of people rate him extremely high, let's hope he can feed the big dogs down low and everyone will be happy
I think in Van Gundy's system every PG can put up good numbers. Once Josh Smith was removed from the situation it really showed that. Smith handled the ball so much that it took away from the PG's. After he left Jennings showed he was extremely capable. Augustin did well and I think Jackson will too. I'm just not sure he's actually better than Jennings. It was an odd trade. Especially just to be a first round exit in the playoffs.
Aussie Dunker
02-22-2015, 07:02 PM
If Jackson helps us move from 9th or 10th in the standings to scrapping a spot in the playoffs, I think this move is instantly successful. I feel like i'd rather sacrifice pick 13ish for pick 16ish to give this young Pistons team some playoff experience. Give them a taste / give them a look at what it takes to win a 7 game series / make them hungry to return. I think it would be invaluable experience for them.
embersyc
02-22-2015, 08:06 PM
I still like DJ better than Jackson, but getting rid of Singler makes the trade a net win for us.
Not to mention Jackson is much younger than DJ.
If we do resign Jackson and keep Jennings, it's not much different from the Jennings/Augustin situation we had earlier in the year.
Having two equal talent point guards doesn't hurt.
Aussie Dunker
02-22-2015, 10:29 PM
^^ Granted DJ is a very, very high end bench player who I think any team would be lucky to have due to his team first / no ego attitude. I still think Reggie has a long way to go in terms of the end product he could turn out to be. I think at worst this trade will be a break even for us, and at best an absolute steal for us (If Reggie turns out to be the PG so many experts around the L think he could develop into). Great calculated move by SVG
Watching him for the first time as a Piston tonight he really impressed me with his ability to get to the rim and especially his finishing ability on both sides of the body.
Nastradamus
02-23-2015, 12:00 PM
THere are zero ways we are even capable of losing this trade. I'm not sure I'd call it a loss if Jackson gets injured tomorrow and leaves in FA
Aussie Dunker
02-23-2015, 07:12 PM
The only way we could have lost this trade is if Reggie signed that 4 year / 48 mill contract and he turned out to be not as great as he thinks. He would then be hard to move. We have all the power this offseason, a little bit of a "try before you buy" situation really...
I like Reggie because he has some serious size about him - for example;
Rose 6'3 and 190 pounds
Westbrook 6'3 and 200 pounds
Reggie 6'3 and 210 pounds
Seems to be the prototypical size of future PG's
LiLharvard
02-24-2015, 11:43 PM
reggie jackson or bj
reggie can play the 2 i bet
Aussie Dunker
03-24-2015, 10:50 PM
Well it has been a rough transition, but these past 5 games in which we have beaten teams such as Memphis / Chicago / Raptors (all top 4 seeds) has been a very positive sign... Two things about these huge wins for us is a) Reggie playing GREAT and b) Monroe not playing...
Over the past 5 games here are the stats:
Reggie - 20 ppg, 12 apg, 6 rpg and 35% from deep
KCP - 22.5 ppg, 54% FG, 41% 3pt (those are ELITE percentages)
Dre - 15.5 ppg, 16 rpg, 2.5 bpg, 1.3 spg
All of this without Moose. We have used Tolliver as a stretch 4 and it seems like everyone just clicks. As much as I love Moose, it seems pretty clear to me we need a stretch 4 to maximize everyone's else's game on our team.
Jackson was so disappointing with Moose on the floor, but without Moose, Reggie looks very, very good - not just from a stats perspective, but from the eye test too...
I am now thinking we let Moose walk, and do everything we can to sign Draymond Green, who is pretty much an elite version of Tolliver with top level defense...
Thoughts
?
I'm pretty sure Monroe was out anyhow. They can only keep Reggie or Moose. It's Reggie. Monroe just isn't a Van Gundy kind of player. What really makes me mad is the Pistons are doing this winning thing at the end of a season again..... they will just never learn. I'd much rather have a higher pick at this point.
I don't know that the Pistons have the money to sign Green and Reggie.
Aussie Dunker
03-24-2015, 11:27 PM
Apparently we do, somehow?... Dre / Green / KCP / Jackson isn't looking like a bad future! But I do agree that I would love a Stanley Johnson or Justise Winslow at SF for us! Which of those two would you prefer?...
Right now I like Winslow. I think he could be good. He might be drafted too high for us. We just won again tonight... And those ping pong balls haven't been doing us any favors either.
I just read an article today that said the Pistons don't have the cap space for Monroe & Jackson. They'll need to make a decision. I don't see how they would have space for Green and Jackson.
The other thing is I wouldn't be so sure Green wants to play for the Pistons all that bad. Playing for your home team can be a bad thing for some athletes. He grew up in Saginaw I believe (which is close to where I'm from originally). I'm sure there would be a lot of pressure from friends for business opportunites, etc etc. Plus Golden State looks like they have a bright future if they can keep things together. David Lee comes off the books for them next season. That spot could be all his. With Klay and Steph that sounds a lot better than Reggie and Andre. Plus it's just way better weather in NorCal.
Nastradamus
03-25-2015, 05:03 PM
Apparently we do, somehow?... Dre / Green / KCP / Jackson isn't looking like a bad future! But I do agree that I would love a Stanley Johnson or Justise Winslow at SF for us! Which of those two would you prefer?...
Johnson can't shoot and we need shooters.
Nastradamus
03-25-2015, 05:13 PM
Unless I'm missing something we would easily be able to afford either pairing
Aussie Dunker
03-25-2015, 09:05 PM
Johnson can't shoot and we need shooters.
Which is why he is doing so well this past stretch not having Moose on the floor, but having another shooter in Tolliver on the floor -
Nastradamus
03-25-2015, 09:45 PM
Which is why he is doing so well this past stretch not having Moose on the floor, but having another shooter in Tolliver on the floor -
StanleyJohnson not Reggie Jackson, but your point is valid.
Aussie Dunker
03-25-2015, 10:01 PM
StanleyJohnson not Reggie Jackson, but your point is valid.
ohhh, my bad mate haha - brain fail
I think he has better mechanics than Justise though, but yeah at this stage shooting is deff not a strength of his -
Aussie Dunker
04-17-2015, 02:41 AM
After a slow start in Detroit, Jackson really heated up and looked comfortable running the show. It almost seems like he was trying to hard at the start of his time here, and when he relaxed it seemed to click for him.
Here are the stats of his final 15 games this year;
21.9 ppg
5.2 rpg
11.6 apg (led the league)
53% FG
41% 3FG
If we put them against the season averages of some others;
Paul
19.1 ppg
4.6 rpg
9.6 apg
48% FG
40% 3PT
Wall
17.6 ppg
4.6 rpg
10 apg
44% FG
30% 3PT
Jennings
15.4 ppg
2.5 rpg
6.6 apg
40% FG
36% 3PT
The sample size is only 15 games, but this shows just how good he actually could be if his numbers are outshining the likes of CP3, Wall and monstering over Jennings.
Yes, his outside shot needs work and he will likely never be a true threat from there, but it is something he can definitely work on.
What are your thoughts on keeping him (likely to be a huge contract) ?
I'm pretty sure Detroit is going to offer him a huge contract. He put up big numbers for that end stretch. I just hope he can do it after he signs a contract. There's so many guys who play well their contract season for a bit and then don't live up to it.
Nastradamus
04-17-2015, 01:30 PM
I'd guess we offer him no contract, at least for a while. See if someone makes an offer we can match. Its quite possible we have to max him in the end though.
I'd take him and Middleton on max deals. Pair them with Porzingis, trade Jennings for Channing Frye.
Jackson Dinwiddie (need 3rd PG)
KCP Meeks
Middleton Martin
Porzingis/Frye (Tolliver?)
Drummond Anthony.
Fill in a few depth spots and go. 2nd round SF or C
No way I give Middleton a max deal.
I do think we should offer Aldridge a max deal though. Monroe is going to walk. Give all that money to LMA. He would be a great compliment to Dre and that would turn the Pistons into a top 4 team in the East. It's a long shot but worth a try.
Nastradamus
04-17-2015, 03:18 PM
I'd offer any of Love,Lamarcus,Kawhii etc., but I don't see any of them coming.
There was an article today saying LMA might actually test the market and consider another team. I don't see how it could be for bargaining reasons. He's already going to get a max offer and Portland can offer the most money. There's reports he's not necessarily happy there though. Love might bounce Cleveland, who knows. It's not for the Pistons though. That wouldn't make much sense unless he was really that mad at the Cavs organization and really wanted to face Lebron a bunch of times. I don't see that. The Spurs aren't letting Leonard go anywhere.
Aussie Dunker
04-17-2015, 09:11 PM
I'd take him and Middleton on max deals. Pair them with Porzingis, trade Jennings for Channing Frye.
Not sure who in their right mind would offer Middleton anything close to a Max deal. Good to great defender, good shooter, good versatility and mindset. I can't see him getting a deal better than say, Deng... Great piece to have though and I would love him back on the Pistons.
I read an article saying that there may be a team that does because there could be a bidding war for him. SF's are tough to come by right now. I don't think it's a smart move though.
Nastradamus
04-18-2015, 10:11 PM
The analytics love him. He was a top 10 player in the league according to RPM this year. He's a great shooter and great defender. Moves well without the ball and while not a plus shot creator, he's better than a Danny Green or other 3 and D types. Plus we'd be trying to pry him from a division rival via restricted free agency.
Nastradamus
04-18-2015, 10:12 PM
There was an article today saying LMA might actually test the market and consider another team. I don't see how it could be for bargaining reasons. He's already going to get a max offer and Portland can offer the most money. There's reports he's not necessarily happy there though. Love might bounce Cleveland, who knows. It's not for the Pistons though. That wouldn't make much sense unless he was really that mad at the Cavs organization and really wanted to face Lebron a bunch of times. I don't see that. The Spurs aren't letting Leonard go anywhere.
Hey, I'd offer LMA without question.
The analytics love him. He was a top 10 player in the league according to RPM this year. He's a great shooter and great defender. Moves well without the ball and while not a plus shot creator, he's better than a Danny Green or other 3 and D types. Plus we'd be trying to pry him from a division rival via restricted free agency.
I saw the article about the analytics of his play. I'd like to have him back, but definitely not as a max contract player. He's at the right age if he was really smart he'd sign a one or two year deal and let the new CBA kick in and then really get paid. Players salaries are really going to increase after 2017. Then I could see paying him that kind of money.
Aussie Dunker
04-19-2015, 08:55 PM
I just find it hard to offer a player a max when his career best season is what, 14.5 points, 4.5 rebounds on 46% FG%. Granted he is an elite defender, it is still hard to see a player like that transitioning to a max contract player. Also, he has had 1 good year, I am very hesitant to offer players a max contract after just one good year...
ZMonkey11
04-20-2015, 08:20 PM
I just find it hard to offer a player a max when his career best season is what, 14.5 points, 4.5 rebounds on 46% FG%. Granted he is an elite defender, it is still hard to see a player like that transitioning to a max contract player. Also, he has had 1 good year, I am very hesitant to offer players a max contract after just one good year...
Yea, overpaid a little maybe. But to max Middleton out would be crazy talk as of right now.
Nastradamus
04-20-2015, 11:50 PM
Its a league where guys like Chandler Parsons get maxed, especially in restricted free agency. I'm far from guaranteeing Middlelton will get the max, but he did shoot 40%+ from 3 in both of the last two years and that has a ton of value in today's NBA. His combination of 3 point shooting and defense at the SF position is exactly what we need too. Plus we'd be prying him from a division rival
Aussie Dunker
04-21-2015, 04:11 AM
He is like... a 5th option on offense, which is perfectly fine - I love the way he plays offense but which other guys in the league can earn a near max deal being a 5th option type of player? Would he have even started this year if Parker didn't go down?
I think he is a great 3 n D guy with great IQ and chemistry - but if players like him start getting close to the max then it is a sad day...
Nastradamus
04-21-2015, 10:24 AM
Middle market teams usually end up sitting around wishing someone would take their cap space or they give it to someone like Josh Smith. I'd rather overpay a player I truly value(from a division rival) than not spend that money. You have to put a high value on shooters, especially if they defend, if you want to build around Jackson and Drummond.
We gave that player to the division rival in the first place lol. No way is he a max contract player.
Aussie Dunker
04-21-2015, 07:26 PM
Several general managers and executives told SheridanHoops they believe Khris Middleton, who has become a go-to guy for the playoff-bound Milwaukee Bucks, is worth $10 million annually and can get roughly a four-year, $40 million offer this summer as a restricted free agent.
Based on everything he's shown, he's laying the foundation to be a very good two-way player—if not a great one. That's why an annual salary in the neighborhood of $8 million not only seems reasonable, but it looks like a bargain.
A few estimates floating around, I think 4 years @ 40 mill would be about the inflated market price for him, someone will be willing to spend this - similar to the Deng contract...
I think I would probably take a long hard look at DeMarre Carroll for the Pistons SF position. 50% FG and 41% 3PT - as well as being a reat wing defender and team player.
Nastradamus
04-21-2015, 10:47 PM
A few estimates floating around, I think 4 years @ 40 mill would be about the inflated market price for him, someone will be willing to spend this - similar to the Deng contract...
I think I would probably take a long hard look at DeMarre Carroll for the Pistons SF position. 50% FG and 41% 3PT - as well as being a reat wing defender and team player.
I'm a Carroll fan.
If 4/40 is his worth, you have to pay more to get a restricted free agent to leave. Especially from a division rival.A max starts at around 16. Maybe it doesn't get that high, but meeting in the middle and calling it around 13 is far from ridiculous. Not to mention that you are going to have to give him a reason to pick Detroit over a bigger and/or warmer city.
You also have to realize the cap is flying up and thus salaries will too. A guy worth 8-10 mil a few years ago is going to be worth (in percentage of cap) 12-15 mil very soon.
Aussie Dunker
04-21-2015, 11:44 PM
^^ Yeah I love Carroll's game, I think he would bring some serious gritt to our team...
And I think 8 mill was more tha value for Middleton, with 4/40 mill looking like the figure to lure him away from the bucks. We shall see...
Nastradamus
04-22-2015, 06:05 PM
Regardless of all else, if we get Middleton for 10 I will be about as happy as I've been as a Pistons fan in a long time. Probably at least since we got Drumond at 9
10 is about the max I'd be willing to go for. I think a team will offer him that for sure. That wouldn't be enough to make the Pistons a contender. They'd be a team at the bottom of the playoffs for years. That wouldn't make me a happy Pistons fan.
Nastradamus
04-22-2015, 09:26 PM
10 is about the max I'd be willing to go for. I think a team will offer him that for sure. That wouldn't be enough to make the Pistons a contender. They'd be a team at the bottom of the playoffs for years. That wouldn't make me a happy Pistons fan.
I think Jackson/Drummond/Middleton/whoever we draft at 8 can be a very nice core. I have faith in KCP/Meeks at the 2 too for that matter. Not to be stars, but to be better than last year and better than league average for the position as a tandem.
I think Jackson/Drummond/Middleton/whoever we draft at 8 can be a very nice core. I have faith in KCP/Meeks at the 2 too for that matter. Not to be stars, but to be better than last year and better than league average for the position as a tandem.
Definitely not enough to win a title. Especially the back court.
Aussie Dunker
04-23-2015, 04:15 AM
I we sign Middleton (for sake of the argument) and we pick of a stanley johnson or Henzonja in the draft, then they are two very nice coplimentry pieces to our budding superstar, Dre, and our potential star, Jackson...
SVG knows what it takes, and no single sining / move is going to make us contenders over night. We are still a few years away but we are laying out a strong foundation to potentially be contenders in 3 years time when Dre is approaching his prime...
Always happy to surround the franchise player with solid two way pieces...
Nastradamus
04-26-2015, 12:29 PM
Definitely not enough to win a title. Especially the back court.
I think its enough to be a core for a title team, if Jackson can keep up what he showed at the end of the year. I'm a believer in KCP/Meeks at the 2. not to be stars, but to play the necessary role. Depends who your draft pick is and how good they become too. Without a true superstar, I'm not sure it gets a ton better than that.
John Wall & Bradley Beal aren't true contenders and that's a much better back court than Detroit has. If Jackson was really that next level guy I don't see why OKC would have traded him. I would think they wouldn't want to make another mistake like they did with Harden. While Reggie finished up great I still don't put him up there with the best PG's yet. Drummond would really need to step up on the offensive end. He'd have to be a go to 20 ppg guy who could actually hit a free throw. Outside of that we'd need to get really lucky in the draft.
Aussie Dunker
04-28-2015, 08:49 PM
Wall and Beal are 24 and 21 years old respectively, let's see how much they are crushing the league when they are 27 and 24 in 3 years time... Outside of perhaps Steph and Klay, there is no other backcourt I would rather build around in this league...
And that's who Reggie and KCP have to beat....
Aussie Dunker
04-28-2015, 08:57 PM
Our team is obviously going to be structured a little difference with our franchise piece being a C, not a backcourt. But in 3 years time KCP could be one of the better 3 n D guards in the league and Reggie, well, we still are not sure what Reggie will become, but if it's anything like his past 15 games of last season then it could be a very solid backcourt to support our franchise chip. I think 3 years from now is a good amount of time to set up a run at the title for...
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