Cocaine can't be made in the United States...

[Ass Dan]

...kickin facts like this our government hates
street thugs sell drugs but who sells drugs to them?
try the CIA my friend
or the FBI
or even BUSH
somebody's gettin rich, damn sure ain't us
we just killin ourselves while others laugh
look at the streets, its a cocaine blood bath
we gotta realize dope is pure death
messin with drugs, you're breathin your last breath.

Legalize and the violence stops.

Word!

[Swaggin916]

Drugs should be legalized and regulated. Do whatever you want just have it be known what you are on.

[Bless Mathews]

I wonder what evil-e is doing these days?

[BasedTom]

you don't know that, friend

[Dresta]

The drug war makes a lot of people a lot of money, yet despite those in charge being aware of its abject failure, nothing will be done about it. Perhaps weed alone will treated as a an exception and legalised to placate stupid hippies and ignorant youngsters who just wanna get high.

This kind of pathetic token gesture is fatuous, because, due to the childish propaganda often spread about cannabis, many will now use because it's legal, and think there no potential dangers in doing so. So instead, more police resources will be focused on persecuting a smaller minority (and harder up part) of the population, just for that very reason: because they are a smaller and completely unrepresented part of the population, it is easy to persecute them, and get a 'caring' society on side.

It's not like any bud you buy on the street is gonna be dangerous anyway, but the heroin or coke you get could well be fatal. Focus on the former doe! Those are the ones we need to liberate: potheads! But potheads are already the least likely to work! It would be far easier to hold a good job with a heroin addiction, than if you're a chronic user of cannabis (heard through my Aunt recently that someone she'd worked with, a very successful and work-driven type, had recently od'd (died) from heroin). None of his colleagues had the faintest clue until the news of his death, that he'd been working for over 20 years with this addiction. I can't see a stoner doing the same tbh; in fact, i find it hard to imagine anyone who smokes weed every day would make it to be a very successful legal executive, who deals with huge contracts in the city (London).

Another productive and useful member of society killed by the USA's international war against evil old opiates (while treating their patients with them on an unprecedented scale, not seen anywhere else in the world :oldlol:).

Go USA :applause:

[JtotheIzzo]

This One's for Me - Ice T

[YouGotServed]

The drug war makes a lot of people a lot of money, yet despite those in charge being aware of its abject failure, nothing will be done about it. Perhaps weed alone will treated as a an exception and legalised to placate stupid hippies and ignorant youngsters who just wanna get high.

This kind of pathetic token gesture is fatuous, because, due to the childish propaganda often spread about cannabis, many will now use because it's legal, and think there no potential dangers in doing so. So instead, more police resources will be focused on persecuting a smaller minority (and harder up part) of the population, just for that very reason: because they are a smaller and completely unrepresented part of the population, it is easy to persecute them, and get a 'caring' society on side.

It's not like any bud you buy on the street is gonna be dangerous anyway, but the heroin or coke you get could well be fatal. Focus on the former doe! Those are the ones we need to liberate: potheads! But potheads are already the least likely to work! It would be far easier to hold a good job with a heroin addiction, than if you're a chronic user of cannabis (heard through my Aunt recently that someone she'd worked with, a very successful and work-driven type, had recently od'd (died) from heroin). None of his colleagues had the faintest clue until the news of his death, that he'd been working for over 20 years with this addiction. I can't see a stoner doing the same tbh; in fact, i find it hard to imagine anyone who smokes weed every day would make it to be a very successful legal executive, who deals with huge contracts in the city (London).

Another productive and useful member of society killed by the USA's international war against evil old opiates (while treating their patients with them on an unprecedented scale, not seen anywhere else in the world :oldlol:).

Go USA :applause:

http://i.minus.com/ibovNT1owp74ik.gif

[nathanjizzle]

http://i.minus.com/ibovNT1owp74ik.gif

I did, this idiot actually used a "successful legal executive" as a general perception for cocaine addicts. Then used the stereotype of teenager potheads to claim every marijuana user is a lazy bum. Richard Branson is a pothead :facepalm. This idiot has no real knowledge of any sort of drug culture, nor any reality what so ever. Hes so far up his ass with his philosophical and political ideas that hes come full circle to becoming retarded and ignorant.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Dresta, length does not equal substance. Your posts are getting more and more useless with each passing day.

[Dresta]

Dresta, length does not equal substance. Your posts are getting more and more useless with each passing day.
What exactly is your point?

It is just far easier to function in everyday situations on opiates than it is on weed. That's pretty much factual: cannabis causes more visual and cognitive impairment than morphine does. I know two people with prestigious jobs (scientific/medical) who function very well with opiate addictions; i can't say the same for guys who always smoke weed - they're almost always losers.

If you've got nothing useful to add to what i've posted then i suggest you pack it in. Oh, and what substance do you post exactly? All I see is you vainly passing judgment on other posters, with maybe a snarky remark here or there.

[Nanners]

opiates are extremely addictive, ~20k americans die from overdosing on prescription opiates each year... when was the last time someone died from a marijuana overdose? opiate withdrawal is like going through hell, marijuana withdrawal does not even exist.

these drugs are not in the same ballpark, cannabis is pretty much harmless and opiates are not.

[KyrieTheFuture]

What exactly is your point?

It is just far easier to function in everyday situations on opiates than it is on weed. That's pretty much factual: cannabis causes more visual and cognitive impairment than morphine does. I know two people with prestigious jobs (scientific/medical) who function very well with opiate addictions; i can't say the same for guys who always smoke weed - they're almost always losers.

If you've got nothing useful to add to what i've posted then i suggest you pack it in. Oh, and what substance do you post exactly? All I see is you vainly passing judgment on other posters, with maybe a snarky remark here or there.
Oh because you know successful people who do opiates, opiate addictions are no big deal. No one one has that addiction is a complete sack of shit who does nothing all day. And because you don't know anyone who smokes and is successful, all pot heads must be lazy. I'm not shocked no one who smokes weed hangs out with you, you would be the biggest ****ing buzzkill of all time if I was high and hanging with you.

[Raymone]

CIA man. F*cking A man.

[Budadiiii]

Oh because you know successful people who do opiates, opiate addictions are no big deal. No one one has that addiction is a complete sack of shit who does nothing all day. And because you don't know anyone who smokes and is successful, all pot heads must be lazy. I'm not shocked no one who smokes weed hangs out with you, you would be the biggest ****ing buzzkill of all time if I was high and hanging with you.
You need to lay off the pot.

I swear to God you ****ing pot heads will defend your lifestyle no matter how much of a detriment it is to your life.

I remember you made a post where you said that you were fine with having no social life because you just smoke a bowl and forget about it. That's exactly the type of mentality potheads have. They don't give a shit about responsibility or actually contributing to society. You'll continue to leech off other peoples hard work and smoke your life away. It's just sad.

[highwhey]

What exactly is your point?

It is just far easier to function in everyday situations on opiates than it is on weed. That's pretty much factual: cannabis causes more visual and cognitive impairment than morphine does. I know two people with prestigious jobs (scientific/medical) who function very well with opiate addictions; i can't say the same for guys who always smoke weed - they're almost always losers.

If you've got nothing useful to add to what i've posted then i suggest you pack it in. Oh, and what substance do you post exactly? All I see is you vainly passing judgment on other posters, with maybe a snarky remark here or there.
The thing with heroin and opiates is that it's very easy to OD. You're always chasing the high, a 30mg oxy was my first try and it was swell. 2nd time around i needed more than 30. In America, it seems that most opiate addicts are Caucasian...so they're more likely to already be successful or have a career. While cannabis users tend to belong to a minority group.

White kid from the suburbs getting high of opiates - if he doesn't OD, he'll go to college and get a job bc of his environment.

Black kid from the projects/low income smoking weed - cannabis or not, he's setup for failure because of his environment

[Rizko]

Oh because you know successful people who do opiates, opiate addictions are no big deal. No one one has that addiction is a complete sack of shit who does nothing all day. And because you don't know anyone who smokes and is successful, all pot heads must be lazy. I'm not shocked no one who smokes weed hangs out with you, you would be the biggest ****ing buzzkill of all time if I was high and hanging with you.
While i agree with you in the sense that Dresta is being a lil black and white on the issue and making broad proclamations about people vis-

[LJJ]

If only there ever was a time is history we could point to.... where opium was widely used and widely available. And a time and place in history where weed was freely available.

Then we could determine which is more devastating on a society.

We don't have any example of a time where opium was widely used, but I'm sure it would have a very mild effect on a country. The country would stay stable, everybody would stay working, no biggie. We also don't have any example of a country where weed was widely and freely available, but I'm sure if a country like that existed it would be a total dump.





http://i.imgur.com/I83mqfu.gif

[Dresta]

Oh because you know successful people who do opiates, opiate addictions are no big deal. No one one has that addiction is a complete sack of shit who does nothing all day. And because you don't know anyone who smokes and is successful, all pot heads must be lazy. I'm not shocked no one who smokes weed hangs out with you, you would be the biggest ****ing buzzkill of all time if I was high and hanging with you.
Nobody said that. I suggest you re-read what i wrote.

Cannabis encourages indolence while harming self-assertiveness (i.e. it often makes people uncertain, vacillating, anxious and increasingly depressed messes - i've seen it many times). I don't know how this can be denied: pretty much everyone who has smoked a lot of weed will have experienced an hour + long conversation over who ought and ought not to go to the shop; even while smoking hashish in Tunisia this happened to me, with my Tunisian cousin trying to send me out onto streets i didn't know at 3am, because it is a cannabis universal for some reason.

I live in Amsterdam bro. I smoke weed and hang out with people who smoke weed. I enjoy smoking bud, but that doesn't mean i'm going to ignore the many negative consequences of its unrestrained use.


The thing with heroin and opiates is that it's very easy to OD. You're always chasing the high, a 30mg oxy was my first try and it was swell. 2nd time around i needed more than 30. In America, it seems that most opiate addicts are Caucasian...so they're more likely to already be successful or have a career. While cannabis users tend to belong to a minority group.

White kid from the suburbs getting high of opiates - if he doesn't OD, he'll go to college and get a job bc of his environment.

Black kid from the projects/low income smoking weed - cannabis or not, he's setup for failure because of his environment
Some of that may well be true, but i've seen lots of white boys, with suburban upbringings (a group that commonly smokes bud, in the uk at least), many who were addicted and smoked for years, and now blame weed for ruining their lives. They look at the years the spent smoking bud, being incredibly lazy, living at home with their parents and becoming increasingly depressed and anxious, as years of their lives that were lost to addiction to weed. Now, i personally think this is a means of avoiding blame that all people commonly engage in, but cannabis most certainly stunts the growth and development of a high proportion of young people who use it chronically. No matter what the hippies want to say about it, it is rather obvious that incessant use of a psychoactive compound is going to harm your mental and emotional wellbeing, and it most certainly isn't going to help you be the adventurous go-getter who usually succeeds in life.

Also, you might want to watch out if that's the case with you. I had a lot of oxys not that long ago, and 10-15mg was bliss. 30mg seems a pretty high number to start with if you haven't already got significant opiate tolerance. Most opiates are not easy to overdose on at all provided you know how much you are taking and aren't mixing with other CNS depressants. One that is very easy to od on though is methadone, due to its low LD-50 and long half-life.

[QUOTE=Rizko]While i agree with you in the sense that Dresta is being a lil black and white on the issue and making broad proclamations about people vis-

[joe]

You can get high on opiates and work just fine. The problem is when you have no more pills. When you are dealing with withdrawals. When you are doing more every month and your prescription runs out before you get a new bottle. When you start buying them on the street because your doctor wont up your dosage. When you beg, steal, and borrow to get more.

I have seen this within my own family. Another thing I have seen:

When your tolerance to pills increases, and the high isnt enough anymore. The next step? Heroin. When you steal from your friends and family to support your heroin addiction. When you are falling asleep in the middle of conversations, then waking back up and hardly realizing what happened. When you get a bunch of tattoos to hide the tracks on your arm. When you die of a heroin overdose after repeated attempts to get clean.

Again, all things I have witnessed within my own family in the past couple of years. Some have gone to prison. One is dead. The rest have lost my trust, likely forever, due to their constant lying and robbery that occurred for years while they were sticking needles into their veins.

I have also seen friends do a few pills, have fun, and never develop any problems. But from my experience, and judging from the many grave statistics revolving around opiates and opiate addiction, I think it is wrong to be overly positive when talking about them. If there is somebody reading this thread who is young, they might get the wrong idea and think they have low risk; that you can pop a few pills and get on with your life, go to work, be productive. That is true for some, but definitely not all. Opiates are one of the most addictive drugs in the world, especially of all the drugs considered to be ''safe,'' or lower tier, like pot and beer.

[joe]

And Dresta, I agree with your point that weed is a lot more dangerous than public perception. I smoked weed a ton at a very young age (14) and developed many problems from it including anxiety and depression. This is a point I have tried to get across to all of my younger family members when I talk to them about drugs. For some, weed makes them laugh, giggle, and eat a bunch of snack food. For others, it can be extremely dangerous, especially those who are prone to think a lot or already have personal problems.

I basically tell them, ''you have to respect the fact that marijuana is a DRUG. A lot of people will tell you that it is not as big of a deal compared to other drugs, and they are mostly right. But that doesn't mean it is something you just jump into, without considering the potential consequences. You have to be smart when you are dealing with something that alters your consciousness and can have such negative effects.''

That being said, I have a friend that smokes weed every day, goes to work, and is one of the most outgoing people I know. I have another friend that smokes weed every day, and has consistently made terrible decisions in his life. A lot of it depends on the individual.

Overall, I think weed should be legal. But it should be legal with the cultural understanding that we no longer pretend it is a harmless plant that just makes you, like, feel free, man.

[joe]

How do you know you got anxiety and depression from weed and not you know, being a teenager

And to the point that you can function better at your job on opiates than weed, that could be true, but most normal people aren't showing up to work high. They go to work, come home, Feelin kinda stressed, smoke some weed. And dude said whatever about he can't imagine a pothead having a successful 20 year career... it happens all the time they just don't die from an overdose at the end so you don't find out they are potheads.

Well, I definitely had the seeds of anxiety and depression before smoking. But the weed was a huge sparkplug and basically had things flying off the handle. That is why I mentioned in my post that weed is especially risky among people who already have problems. Basically, I went from a kid with a few issues to, falling through a vortex, constant suicidal thoughts and failing every class in school, social anxiety that I never had before, etc.

The thing about my experience is that the weed seemed to activate somewhat of a positive voice in my mind. The positive voice was saying that I needed to change, needed to work to get over my issues, needed to be a better person. But the negative side of weed was telling me I couldn't succeed, I was messed up, broken, gave me paranoia and anxiety. So it was a double edged sword and I was too young to understand the correct way to react. A lot of good came from that time period, but a lot of bad too. So I do have mixed opinions on weed.

Which is why I think weed should not be done by people who are younger than 18, or even 22-25. At that point you will be mature enough to respond smartly if things go bad. When you are 14 or 16, even 18, you generally are not prepared to deal with a series of bad highs on a psychoactive drug. In my opinion.

About being high at work, I was responding to someone who specifically mentioned being high at work. They were saying that it would be easier to work on opiates than it would on marijuana. I am with you overall that marijuana is generally safer and plenty of people can be productive with it. But especially among those who have no negative effects from marijuana, they need to understand that that isn't the case for everyone. Because then you have kids getting high and having bad experiences and everyone discounting what they are saying.

[joe]

Have you smoked later in life and had similar experience with it?

Yeah, it always follows the same pattern. The first few times I smoke, I enjoy it and tend to have a good time. Then, I will have really strong anxiety, way stronger than anything I get in normal life.

I also get... better at games. And I have a lot of interesting thoughts that are still interesting when Im sober the next day. (To me)

The rare times I do get high, I immediately have to play some type of game. If Im left with my thoughts the anxiety can get out of control. Like Spades, Scrabble, a video game, any kind of game that I like. I cant just get high and sit.

But I rarely ever smoke, like once every couple of years.

Even the words and smell of weed make me uncomfortable now. Like, the word Blunt. When I hear someone say, ''I am going to smoke a blunt,'' I get this feeling in my chest. Because that is what we used to smoke when we were younger. Or if my friend is smoking weed and I smell it, I get this feeling of anxiety and it throws me right back to being 14-15.

[joe]

Yeah, it's definitely not for everyone. I generally don't like it, will smoke before bed sometimes because it basically just makes me pass out. Never had a real negative reaction though. Actually kind of the opposite of you where you start thinking about a bunch of stuff and get anxious, my mind is usually all over the place but when I smoke I'm too dumb to think about more than one thing at a time. And usually that one thing is a struggle.

lol, it's just crazy how differently people can react. My one friend and I used to get high and end up talking about space and like, ''the universe, dude.'' But our other friends were like ''Wtf, y'all ****** is stupid'' (that is how my friends spoke).

When I was older I would smoke a joint, light a cigarette, take one drag, and be disgusted. I would wonder how I could be so stupid as to smoke cigarettes, and wouldn't smoke again for the entirety of the high. I had no desire for nicotine even as I smoked 13-16 cigarettes a day at the time.

Also, random songs could play in my head that did not exist. One of the first times I got high I experienced this. It was a duet between a man and a girl, it sounded like something from the 1950's. But they were just singing this song with complete instruments in the back, with the lyrics just about things going on around me. ''Now you are crossing the street, make sure you don't trip on your feeet.'' But it was so vivid and I didn't have to put any mental energy into creating it. It was weird as hell.

I write songs too, and when I would get high and look at my songs, I would make these changes that I felt made the songs so much better. I would have a stronger understanding of the emotions behind the song, why I wrote it, and then be able to go into those emotions and incorporate them more into the lyrics. The same empathy always made watching movies way more enjoyable. I could feel the emotion of the characters to such a higher degree, honestly, Almost Famous made me cry. lol. I hate admitting it but whatever. :p

Anyway, this is why I will find myself trying weed again from time to time, because I see it as having amazing potential. But this time I might be done for good, because I just don't like continuing to put myself back into those shoes. I always wish I could have the positives without the negatives, but I think that is just a wish. I am playing with fire when I smoke.

[joe]

Cocaine thread devolving into dumb stoner talk

I've never done coke. Would like to. In the right situation

Thank you for taking the piss out of our conversation, it is good to keep the pretentiousness level down. And I have done coke, it is one of the best feelings ever, and honestly I am scared to do it again because I like it too much. haha.

[Rizko]

I wasn't making it black & white at all though: that's only what the people attempting to caricature my argument are making it out as.

My thoughts on this matter are almost a complete reflection of yours, and the only point i was trying to get across is that in a high-pressure work environment i could function far better on an opiate than on bud, and that it would be the same with most people (though obviously not those whom it makes very nauseous, but those people tend not to take them anyway).

Lots and lots of people in the US will be carrying out their day-to-day (and often respectable) jobs on prescription opiates, and they wouldn't be capable of maintaining them if they went in every day caned instead. I said nothing more than this. I'd never trivialise the dangers of opiate abuse, rather my post was aimed at those who constantly trivialise cannabis dependancy just because they want to smoke it, when it ruins lives as well (and no, overdoses are not the only negative impact of drug use, like that imbecile Nanners seems to be arguing).
Thank you for the reply. I re-read what you said and idk why I thought you were making as black and white as a did. Kyrie probably altered my perception of your post(s) with his replies making it seem more black and white then it was. I agree with a lot of stuff you post (tho others make fun of you cause it can sometimes be an inconvenient truth or maybe misinterpreted because your using bigger words people dont fully understand). Keep up the good work

[Rizko]

If only there ever was a time is history we could point to.... where opium was widely used and widely available. And a time and place in history where weed was freely available.

Then we could determine which is more devastating on a society.

We don't have any example of a time where opium was widely used, but I'm sure it would have a very mild effect on a country. The country would stay stable, everybody would stay working, no biggie. We also don't have any example of a country where weed was widely and freely available, but I'm sure if a country like that existed it would be a total dump.





http://i.imgur.com/I83mqfu.gif
And in reply to this. The opium dens of China are different then the idea of a modern legalized usage.

I dont wanna make it too long so my basic idea would be to allow drugs to be legal (all drugs, and maybe start in just a city or a state as opposed to an entire nation just to test some of the short term effects on the area). Once the drugs have been legalized what I would do is set up stores (maybe state run like liquor stores) that carry the drugs. Now to mitigate people trying to hold up the store I would make it so its attached right to the police station with onduty officers in the store and shit. Maybe limit the amount someone can get in a day (I mean if they limited it to 5 bags of good H for instance and whoever was buying it felt like that wasnt enough then idk what to say. They most likely have even deeper issues then the heroin if they feel the need to be so numb throughout the day).

I know theres more too it then that, but idc to get into it now. To make it quick and easy I'll just say that anyone saying that this idea couldnt work and I'm wrong has a leg to stand on. This isnt an obvious answer, but I just feel making so such a huge portion of our society goes to jail for something that, in theory, should only be a harm to themselves. I also have issues with the drugs be sold by gangs and shit. Id rather a legal business come in, regulate it, cut off the biggest source of funding for both street gangs and international terrorist types who produce it for the world.

I could be wrong but prohibition of drugs is a joke in America and as a society maybe we need to try another tactic.

[Nanners]

Lots and lots of people in the US will be carrying out their day-to-day (and often respectable) jobs on prescription opiates, and they wouldn't be capable of maintaining them if they went in every day caned instead. I said nothing more than this. I'd never trivialise the dangers of opiate abuse, rather my post was aimed at those who constantly trivialise cannabis dependancy just because they want to smoke it, when it ruins lives as well (and no, overdoses are not the only negative impact of drug use, like that imbecile Nanners seems to be arguing).

pointing out that opiates kill thousands of people each year =/= saying overdoses are the only negative impact of drug use

stupid ****

[ItsMillerTime]

It's pretty astounding that in 2015 people still don't understand the true negative and positive side affects of marijuana. And if you don't understand them, why the fvck are you creating 1000 word posts about the subject?

Do your own research ffs.

[ILLsmak]

Yeah, it always follows the same pattern. The first few times I smoke, I enjoy it and tend to have a good time. Then, I will have really strong anxiety, way stronger than anything I get in normal life.

I also get... better at games. And I have a lot of interesting thoughts that are still interesting when Im sober the next day. (To me)

The rare times I do get high, I immediately have to play some type of game. If Im left with my thoughts the anxiety can get out of control. Like Spades, Scrabble, a video game, any kind of game that I like. I cant just get high and sit.

But I rarely ever smoke, like once every couple of years.

Even the words and smell of weed make me uncomfortable now. Like, the word Blunt. When I hear someone say, ''I am going to smoke a blunt,'' I get this feeling in my chest. Because that is what we used to smoke when we were younger. Or if my friend is smoking weed and I smell it, I get this feeling of anxiety and it throws me right back to being 14-15.

You're probably pretty smart huh.

I have the opposite experience. I didn't smoke weed that young, but I can say for sure that weed didn't cause anxiety and depression for me.

I had way more anxiety pre-weed. My paranoia is that maybe the reason I have less anxiety now is that I shaved a large amount of points off of my IQ. I still have anxiety about some things, don't get me wrong... severe anxiety, but I always did. When I was young I couldn't eat in the mornings before school because I was too anxious. I didn't eat until lunch every day. Then I'd eat only something light like crackers.

Weed does cause anxiety when you do it then stop, though, obviously. But in terms of changing your anxiety level in life? I doubt it.

I don't smoke weed anymore because it's not real. Nothing is changing except my perception and that is the most depressing thing. It's totally bullshit and the only thing you are getting is extra after-effects and possibly hypoxic brain damage. Shit sucks...

But anyone who can sit here and compare people who are addicted to heroin or cocaine to people who smoke weed... and portray the former favorably, is completely out of focus with reality. Not to mention, very few people who are 'potheads' are only smoking weed. People who just smoke weed, like... me for instance, are pretty rare.

A lot of people use weed as their main drug but do others either on special occasions or when available. People think you are stuck up when you 'only smoke weed.'

I do have a soft spot for weed, tho. I think it's a pretty positive drug. The reason I smoked so much was (other than escapism, which you can argue your smoking at age 14 was that... and proved you had more issues than you might think) because it was fun. It helped me chill the **** out and enjoy something, which has always been rare as I got older... cuz nothing seems new or interesting anymore.

Alas, it's bullshit.

-Smak

[DeuceWallaces]

Not to mention, very few people who are 'potheads' are only smoking weed. People who just smoke weed, like... me for instance, are pretty rare.

A lot of people use weed as their main drug but do others either on special occasions or when available. People think you are stuck up when you 'only smoke weed.'

That is a completely unfounded statement.

[joe]

You're probably pretty smart huh.

I have the opposite experience. I didn't smoke weed that young, but I can say for sure that weed didn't cause anxiety and depression for me.

I had way more anxiety pre-weed. My paranoia is that maybe the reason I have less anxiety now is that I shaved a large amount of points off of my IQ. I still have anxiety about some things, don't get me wrong... severe anxiety, but I always did. When I was young I couldn't eat in the mornings before school because I was too anxious. I didn't eat until lunch every day. Then I'd eat only something light like crackers.

Weed does cause anxiety when you do it then stop, though, obviously. But in terms of changing your anxiety level in life? I doubt it.

I don't smoke weed anymore because it's not real. Nothing is changing except my perception and that is the most depressing thing. It's totally bullshit and the only thing you are getting is extra after-effects and possibly hypoxic brain damage. Shit sucks...

But anyone who can sit here and compare people who are addicted to heroin or cocaine to people who smoke weed... and portray the former favorably, is completely out of focus with reality. Not to mention, very few people who are 'potheads' are only smoking weed. People who just smoke weed, like... me for instance, are pretty rare.

A lot of people use weed as their main drug but do others either on special occasions or when available. People think you are stuck up when you 'only smoke weed.'

I do have a soft spot for weed, tho. I think it's a pretty positive drug. The reason I smoked so much was (other than escapism, which you can argue your smoking at age 14 was that... and proved you had more issues than you might think) because it was fun. It helped me chill the **** out and enjoy something, which has always been rare as I got older... cuz nothing seems new or interesting anymore.

Alas, it's bullshit.

-Smak

Okay I like this post. I mention that I like this post because I will begin my reply with a disagreement.

I disagree that the only thing marijuana changes is your perception. I believe that weed can open doors in your mind that can truly alter the way you think, even when sober. For one example, weed has a tendency to make me very understanding of how my actions effect others. One of the biggest consequences of my 14 year old weed binge was the guilt I felt for so many things I had been doing. The fights I had been in, the people I had wronged, the girls I had lied to and hurt repeatedly, the teachers whose classes I slept through and skipped and argued with.

It reached a point where I would get high and all I could think about was how everyone else must think of me. How the girlfriend that I cheated on must feel, the pain in her chest when she saw me with somebody else. How the teacher, who is so enthusiastic about teaching us, must feel when I go into her class, joke around for half the period, and sleep for the other half.

I think weed can make you more self-aware. I think it can increase your empathy. I think it can make you see more deeply into situations where otherwise you might not have bothered to look.

(It can also make you see connections that arent there, or believe things that arent true. I have had the experience of writing something high, thinking it was awesome, and sobering up to realize it made absolutely no sense. So I think there are two sides to that coin. But I do credit weed, even in those instances, with causing my mind to go into some type of overdrive and search for connections. Edit: Also, that seems more likely to happen when I get REALLY high.)

Do you feel weed is what shaved points off of your IQ? I have heard of so many people who say that weed calms their anxiety. I honestly cannot relate to that at all. For me, pills are like that (and now we have come full circle). I have many times sniffed a percocet, simply because it felt great, for just a few hours, to not have anxiety. Just speaking freely, not having constant doubts and worries in my chest. But weed, it is the opposite. For me, I know the high is kicking in when I start having weird thoughts and all I want is to be completely removed from any sort of social situation. I have gotten high at parties before, and all I ever want to do is immediately leave. Doing pills at a party would make me way more talkative and open.

[Dresta]

pointing out that opiates kill thousands of people each year =/= saying overdoses are the only negative impact of drug use

stupid ****
No, that would just make you a retard who needs to animate the inanimate so he can blame something aside from people for those deaths. Opiates don't 'kill' anyone, but the use of alcohol certainly leads to a lot more deaths than the use of opiates.

Other people overdosing because they did something silly (like mixing high doses with booze or benzos) does not increase the risk for those who use it correctly, and never overdose. Just like the masses of deaths caused by alcohol abuse has no reflection or relevance to the person who consumes a few glasses of wine every day.

They all have their respective dangers, and one cannot separate them in the childish way you do, as it only leads to misunderstanding and complacency (as has happened in Colorado, where the regulation of edibles has been downright foolish, and people have died:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/04/opinion/dowd-dont-harsh-our-mellow-dude.html?_r=1

Not that deaths are a measure of anything useful. ODing on prescription opiates, really often requires the same degree of gross negligence is would be needed to od on paracetamol, yet again, no one blames paracetamol for 'killing' those people.



That being said, I have a friend that smokes weed every day, goes to work, and is one of the most outgoing people I know. I have another friend that smokes weed every day, and has consistently made terrible decisions in his life. A lot of it depends on the individual.

Overall, I think weed should be legal. But it should be legal with the cultural understanding that we no longer pretend it is a harmless plant that just makes you, like, feel free, man.
That's the problem with these things: it is and always will be wholly dependent on the individual, and so an impossible thing to provide broad and objective advice on. People need to discover what works and doesn't work for them, and to be careful in doing so, because that is the only real way to know. No drug should be approached without caution, including booze (the long-standing European poison and narcotic of choice, which has by far the worst social effects of any drug, and that's with it being legal! What it was prohibited it was even worse!) and cannabis (especially considering some people like to pretend it's a special and unique drug, not at all like any of the others :lol).

The fact is though, that i've seen personally, and heard of publicly, of way too many individuals, who were outgoing, had plenty of friends, full-of-life etc. turn morose, despondent, and depressed, becoming a burden for their families and whatever friends they still have, after developing cannabis addictions (and it is an addiction: it can gain a very strong psychological hold over the mind, and psychological withdrawal symptoms, for me, have always been the worst thing about withdrawals, and the hardest thing to break free of). It makes you timid, which is one of the worst things for a young person, as it requires courage to look the world and your existence in the face.


You can get high on opiates and work just fine. The problem is when you have no more pills. When you are dealing with withdrawals. When you are doing more every month and your prescription runs out before you get a new bottle. When you start buying them on the street because your doctor wont up your dosage. When you beg, steal, and borrow to get more.

I have also seen friends do a few pills, have fun, and never develop any problems. But from my experience, and judging from the many grave statistics revolving around opiates and opiate addiction, I think it is wrong to be overly positive when talking about them. If there is somebody reading this thread who is young, they might get the wrong idea and think they have low risk; that you can pop a few pills and get on with your life, go to work, be productive. That is true for some, but definitely not all. Opiates are one of the most addictive drugs in the world, especially of all the drugs considered to be ''safe,'' or lower tier, like pot and beer.
Yeah, that's pretty much all i was saying about working on them. I've worked on opiates and cannabis, and frankly, there's no comparison in terms of productivity, so i don't get what people have been arguing with me about in here. I certainly never said opiates weren't addictive, or that using them is free of risk: all drugs carry significant risk if you aren't careful, and if you're compulsive then you should stay away altogether, as compulsives almost always become fully-fledged addicts. Something relatively weak like codeine i find great for work if you have to push through towards a deadline or something similar: gets rid of the pains and doubts that can hold you back. Just because i speak about my own experiences and choices, doesn't mean i'm recommending them to anyone else. Just providing some honest thoughts on the matter, and honest thoughts are something of an anathema on this site.

I find people tend to be so prejudiced against opiate use that they don't need my discouragement to stay away from them. I generally neither encourage nor discourage - i like people to find their own way. This country would never have the prescription opiate addiction problem it currently does if not for the sanction of doctors, in combination with cynical pharmaceutical interests - people automatically let their guards down when they are given something by their doctor.


Have you ever tried Kratom out of interest? It is pretty weird but strangely effective, and feels remarkably like an opiate for something that is not one.


How do you know you got anxiety and depression from weed and not you know, being a teenager

And to the point that you can function better at your job on opiates than weed, that could be true, but most normal people aren't showing up to work high. They go to work, come home, Feelin kinda stressed, smoke some weed. And dude said whatever about he can't imagine a pothead having a successful 20 year career... it happens all the time they just don't die from an overdose at the end so you don't find out they are potheads.


I was never talking about normal people though, i was talking about addicts, the guys who need to blaze when they wake up lost, nauseous, depressed and demotivated without it. There are lots of people who have problems with it, and they very often end up on prescription anti-depressants or benzos (a very common path, which can often just make things worse). This is usually guys in their late teens or early twenties also who have never had a period in their adult lives not on psychoactive drugs, and thus are prone to things like depersonalisation, loss of the sense of self, etc. This is an unpleasant situation, and not easy to deal with, which is why it's common for random Islamic terrorists, who hack off heads in the street, to have followed this route, likewise with mass shooters (though plain suicide is obviously far more common than this, and also a frequent product of that particular path, and such extreme distortion of the self, whose tangibility is already tenuous).

[Dresta]

You're probably pretty smart huh.

I have the opposite experience. I didn't smoke weed that young, but I can say for sure that weed didn't cause anxiety and depression for me.

I had way more anxiety pre-weed. My paranoia is that maybe the reason I have less anxiety now is that I shaved a large amount of points off of my IQ. I still have anxiety about some things, don't get me wrong... severe anxiety, but I always did. When I was young I couldn't eat in the mornings before school because I was too anxious. I didn't eat until lunch every day. Then I'd eat only something light like crackers.

Weed does cause anxiety when you do it then stop, though, obviously. But in terms of changing your anxiety level in life? I doubt it.

I don't smoke weed anymore because it's not real. Nothing is changing except my perception and that is the most depressing thing. It's totally bullshit and the only thing you are getting is extra after-effects and possibly hypoxic brain damage. Shit sucks...

But anyone who can sit here and compare people who are addicted to heroin or cocaine to people who smoke weed... and portray the former favorably, is completely out of focus with reality. Not to mention, very few people who are 'potheads' are only smoking weed. People who just smoke weed, like... me for instance, are pretty rare.

A lot of people use weed as their main drug but do others either on special occasions or when available. People think you are stuck up when you 'only smoke weed.'

I do have a soft spot for weed, tho. I think it's a pretty positive drug. The reason I smoked so much was (other than escapism, which you can argue your smoking at age 14 was that... and proved you had more issues than you might think) because it was fun. It helped me chill the **** out and enjoy something, which has always been rare as I got older... cuz nothing seems new or interesting anymore.

Alas, it's bullshit.

-Smak
And here's one of the classic symptoms of prolonged cannabis use: a loss of the sense of wonder and for the sublime that so often accompanies life, a deadening of the senses. The question was addressed some time ago in Bloom's Closing of the American Mind. The fact is that drugs provide premature and unearned ecstasy, and this has prolonged effects on the human mind - it breaks the link between effort, achievement and joy that is so essential to productive life.

Which is why he notes:


'In my experience, students who have had a serious fling with drugs - and gotten over it - find it difficult to have enthusiasms or great expectations. It is as though the colour has been drained out of their lives and they see everything in black and white. The pleasure they experienced at the beginning was so intense that they no longer look for it at the end or as the end. They may function perfectly well, but dryly, routinely. Their energy has been sapped, and they do not expect their life's activity to do anything except produce a living'

This is an effect that is never recorded in any of the statistics, but it most certainly matters, just as much, if not more so than the simply 'number of deaths' reductionism. And, it is something well worth thinking about if you are serious about being honest with yourself. I say this as someone who has taken more than his fair share of drugs in the past, and even uses now, but who still thinks the above quote has some truth to it.


It's pretty astounding that in 2015 people still don't understand the true negative and positive side affects of marijuana. And if you don't understand them, why the fvck are you creating 1000 word posts about the subject?

Do your own research ffs.
And i forgot this one :roll:.

No one knows those things with any kind of certainty, and they probably never will. They could be debated ad infinitum and still not reach an adequate conclusion. There are very few 'facts' when it comes to chemical compounds acting on different brains.

Twin studies are necessary for a start, but still there would be too many variables to provide any kind of conclusive answer, universally applicable.

[joe]

That's the problem with these things: it is and always will be wholly dependent on the individual, and so an impossible thing to provide broad and objective advice on. People need to discover what works and doesn't work for them, and to be careful in doing so, because that is the only real way to know. No drug should be approached without caution, including booze (the long-standing European poison and narcotic of choice, which has by far the worst social effects of any drug, and that's with it being legal! What it was prohibited it was even worse!) and cannabis (especially considering some people like to pretend it's a special and unique drug, not at all like any of the others :lol).

The fact is though, that i've seen personally, and heard of publicly, of way too many individuals, who were outgoing, had plenty of friends, full-of-life etc. turn morose, despondent, and depressed, becoming a burden for their families and whatever friends they still have, after developing cannabis addictions (and it is an addiction: it can gain a very strong psychological hold over the mind, and psychological withdrawal symptoms, for me, have always been the worst thing about withdrawals, and the hardest thing to break free of). It makes you timid, which is one of the worst things for a young person, as it requires courage to look the world and your existence in the face.


Yeah, that's pretty much all i was saying about working on them. I've worked on opiates and cannabis, and frankly, there's no comparison in terms of productivity, so i don't get what people have been arguing with me about in here. I certainly never said opiates weren't addictive, or that using them is free of risk: all drugs carry significant risk if you aren't careful, and if you're compulsive then you should stay away altogether, as compulsives almost always become fully-fledged addicts. Something relatively weak like codeine i find great for work if you have to push through towards a deadline or something similar: gets rid of the pains and doubts that can hold you back. Just because i speak about my own experiences and choices, doesn't mean i'm recommending them to anyone else. Just providing some honest thoughts on the matter, and honest thoughts are something of an anathema on this site.

I find people tend to be so prejudiced against opiate use that they don't need my discouragement to stay away from them. I generally neither encourage nor discourage - i like people to find their own way. This country would never have the prescription opiate addiction problem it currently does if not for the sanction of doctors, in combination with cynical pharmaceutical interests - people automatically let their guards down when they are given something by their doctor.


Have you ever tried Kratom out of interest? It is pretty weird but strangely effective, and feels remarkably like an opiate for something that is not one.



Yeah, drugs are a very individual thing. They are not something to just be painted as all bad, like they often are, but there needs to be more realism when they are talked about. Because all I could have told you about weed in 5th grade was that it makes you laugh, and that somehow it can ruin your life. That is not productive in my opinion. Though, I understand that it is tough to talk to kids about drugs. I had great conversations with a lot of kids in my family about drugs. I usually wait until they're about 12, right when they are young enough to still listen to you but old enough to understand what you are saying.

I went to work high just one time, and it was one of the worst experiences in my life. lol. . At first I was really positive actually. I was telling myself, why can't I knock out this work in 1 hour, which usually takes me 2? I was giving myself these little challenges of being more productive than normal, trying to find creative shortcuts and new ways of doing things at work. But pretty quickly that faded and I just wished I wasn't high anymore. I trudged through it but luckily this was just menial labor, nothing too serious to handle. I have also worked on pills and I find it uncomfortable as well, because when I am on pills I just kind of feel like hanging out and relaxing. But I agree that it is more doable than working on weed, for me at least.


Never heard of Kratom, but it sounds pretty interesting. I would try it. Is it illegal in the US? This was an interesting thing I just read about it on Wikipedia:


M. speciosa is indigenous to Thailand and, despite growing naturally in the country, has been outlawed for 70 years and was originally banned because it was reducing the Thai government's tax revenue from opium distribution.[4]

Of course they banned it for that reason. This world sometimes, man.

[Dresta]

Yeah, drugs are a very individual thing. They are not something to just be painted as all bad, like they often are, but there needs to be more realism when they are talked about. Because all I could have told you about weed in 5th grade was that it makes you laugh, and that somehow it can ruin your life. That is not productive in my opinion. Though, I understand that it is tough to talk to kids about drugs. I had great conversations with a lot of kids in my family about drugs. I usually wait until they're about 12, right when they are young enough to still listen to you but old enough to understand what you are saying.

I went to work high just one time, and it was one of the worst experiences in my life. lol. . At first I was really positive actually. I was telling myself, why can't I knock out this work in 1 hour, which usually takes me 2? I was giving myself these little challenges of being more productive than normal, trying to find creative shortcuts and new ways of doing things at work. But pretty quickly that faded and I just wished I wasn't high anymore. I trudged through it but luckily this was just menial labor, nothing too serious to handle. I have also worked on pills and I find it uncomfortable as well, because when I am on pills I just kind of feel like hanging out and relaxing. But I agree that it is more doable than working on weed, for me at least.


Never heard of Kratom, but it sounds pretty interesting. I would try it. Is it illegal in the US? This was an interesting thing I just read about it on Wikipedia:


Of course they banned it for that reason. This world sometimes, man.
True, you do often feel like you've wasted your high; not much point in taking a euphoric dose at work, but smallish doses can make it less of a pain in the arse for sure (especially if you're very tired).

It's not illegal in the US as of yet, and unregulated by the FDA, though the DEA has it as "Drugs and Chemicals of Concern" and look at this:


'On February 28, 2014 the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) announced an import alert for Kratom, issuing guidance that shipments are to be seized without physical examination from several vendors listed due to concerns that there is no evidence that Kratom does not pose an unnecessary risk of illness or injury.'

What fantastic doublespeak :oldlol:. What they really don't like about it is that it doesn't benefit any of the drug companies, as per. It is depressing that so many are on hydro and oxycodone (or even methadone smh) when a safer natural substitute is available, and would be enough for most.


The leaves of kratom contain mitragynine and several related alkaloids. Of all the compounds present in the leaf, mitragynine appears to be the most active and the one most likely responsible for kratom’s pleasing effects. Used as an opiate substitute, kratom contains no opiates of any kind, but it does bind to the same receptor sites in the brain. It binds to the mu-opioid receptor, as do both enkephalins and morphine. Additionally mitragynine binds to kappa-opioid receptors, which are associated with pain relief and sedation. Mitragynine is adrenergic, which produces a stimulating effect, and it also binds with serotonin receptors, producing an anti-depressant effect as well. Due to this multiplicity of activities in the brain, kratom produces an overall pleasing feeling.'

Many former addicts view it as something of a god send in helping them escape opiate dependency, yet it is never used - i wonder why :rolleyes: ?

[Rizko]

I just wanted to piggyback on 1 thing Dresta mentioned in his last post.


(or even methadone smh)

Seriously methadone is an evil drug. Its a travesty that they would use probably the MOST addictive and MOST damaging opiate to help people with withdrawals. I get why, it lasts so long you only have to dose once a day, but that also makes it so much worse once you wanna come off it. And the clinics will give patients much higher doses then required to get the relief from withdrawals (I know people who were put on 300 mg+ of methadone when they were only doing like 120 mgs of oxy, when methadone is STRONGER and lasts so much longer).

Anyone with a drug issue looking to solve it avoid methadone. I cant emphasize that enough. Its trading one addiction for another that (almost) always ends up being worse.