Kobe's career is ending so anticlimactically and its depressing.

[Connor B]

I don't like talking about Kobe on here because he is just too polarizing, but take it from a guy who is neither a fan or a hater but simply a fan of good basketball -- his situation sucks. I don't really see the point of coming back last year to stumble through another shitty year where the Lakers might be marginally better but still nowhere near good enough for playoff contention. He could average 20/4/4 and we could all feel okay about it, or he could retire, or go to a contender and be a sixth man. I just feel like the Lakers are cancer right now.

[Mr.Kite]

Is this the first time you seen a top player retire?

you 12 brah?

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Cool story bro

[JT123]

Kobe made his own bed by chasing away All Stars and taking a ridiculous contract. He's too stubborn to accept that he is no longer an elite player and would be better off as a 6th man. I can't bring myself to feel sorry for a guy like that. :confusedshrug:

[CavaliersFTW]

Kobe made his own bed by chasing away All Stars and taking a ridiculous contract. He's too stubborn to accept that he is no longer an elite player and would be better off as a 6th man. I can't bring myself to feel sorry for a guy like that. :confusedshrug:
https://38.media.tumblr.com/64f26b2d93b457907682cc891a4dab4c/tumblr_mjdckiD2V91rdei95o1_r1_500.gif

Of course you don't like him.

[Joyner82reload]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=367591

Blame Konex

[IncarceratedBob]

How else do you think Kobe would go out? You think he'd succumb to the pressure after all these years and be a bitch? Naw fool, he's going out the Mamba. You think Kobe didn't know he had a better chance to win with Dwight? He didn't give a shit because Dwight is a bitch and he chased Mr. Howard away.

Kobe is simply the ultimate Alpha, his mentality is that one which our heads can't comprehend because we aren't as good at anything as Kobe is at basketball.

[tgan3]

imagine if the CP3 trade was never vetoed...The lakers would still be a dynasty :roll:

[navy]

imagine if the CP3 trade was never vetoed...The lakers would still be a dynasty :roll:
How do you know Kobe wouldnt have ran CP3 out of town like he did Dwight?

[Heavincent]

How do you know Kobe wouldnt have ran CP3 out of town like he did Dwight?

I love how people act like Dwight was a victim.

[CP343]

He should have retired after the 2011 season at least.

[navy]

I love how people act like Dwight was a victim.
Regardless, Kobe is definitely the type to clash with other stars.

[Heavincent]

Regardless, Kobe is definitely the type to clash with other assholes.

Fixed.

Only people he didn't get along with were Shaq, Malone, and Dwight. All 3 are well known assholes with insecurity problems.

Oh, and Smush Parker too, I guess :lol

[I<3NBA]

a rapist deserves worse

[SouBeachTalents]

Fixed.

Only people he didn't get along with were Shaq, Malone, and Dwight. All 3 are well known assholes with insecurity problems.

Oh, and Smush Parker too, I guess :lol

I guess it's all their fault, never Kobe's

[navy]

Fixed.

Only people he didn't get along with were Shaq, Malone, and Dwight. All 3 are well known assholes with insecurity problems.

Oh, and Smush Parker too, I guess :lol
Well Kobe is also an asshole with insecurity problems as well....

So there is that.

[JT123]

I love how people act like Dwight was a victim.
How was he not? Dwight came back from surgery 2 months EARLY, yet he was unfairly scapegoated for the team's horrible start. Then when Kobe had the chance to stick up for Dwight he tells the media "we don't have time for Dwight to heal" :biggums: :facepalm
Kobe basically called Dwight soft after coming back from surgery early, and then expected Howard to risk his career in order to carry him to another ring. And then he wonders why no big name free agents want to go to the Lakers. :rolleyes:

[kamil]

imagine if the CP3 trade was never vetoed...The lakers would still be a dynasty :roll:

#entitlement

[Bless Mathews]

How was he not? Dwight came back from surgery 2 months EARLY, yet he was unfairly scapegoated for the team's horrible start. Then when Kobe had the chance to stick up for Dwight he tells the media "we don't have time for Dwight to heal" :biggums: :facepalm
Kobe basically called Dwight soft after coming back from surgery early, and then expected Howard to risk his career in order to carry him to another ring. And then he wonders why no big name free agents want to go to the Lakers. :rolleyes:

Word.

Kobe is a white upper class spoon fed punk bitch.

Niggahs don't wanna play with him.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I love how people act like Dwight was a victim.
He was. He got all the blame when they were losing in the first half of the season and none of the credit after the ASG when they won at a 55 game pace and he was playing really, really well.

[imnew09]

It all started with our coaches :cry:

Mike Brown, D'Antoni, now Bryan Scott :facepalm :facepalm

If we had a better coach, things wouldn't been as bad as currently, but oh well, Kobe is too loyal to leave the organization.

[iggy>]

Without Phil Jackson and a dominant front line, Kobe is Detroit pistons jerry Stackhouse.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

You guys are really still clinging to the Dwight Howard jab when he has missed half of the season this year and may never be the same?

What's next? You are going to slam the Lakers for not having the coach of the 10-45 Knicks? or the 20-35 Nuggets? Remember when Kobe 'chased away" the "next dominant big man" Andrew Bynum??

:oldlol:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

He was. He got all the blame when they were losing in the first half of the season and none of the credit after the ASG when they won at a 55 game pace and he was playing really, really well.

How much credit did he and Gasol deserve for getting swept in the playoffs that year?

Please advise...

[T_L_P]

Without Phil Jackson and a dominant front line, Kobe is Detroit pistons jerry Stackhouse.

I understand a lot of it is circumstance (then again, he was on a 56 win team his rookie year when he wasn't even close to being a top 5 player on the team), but does anyone have Kobe's W-L record/Win % without Jackson coaching?

[HOoopCityJones]

I understand a lot of it is circumstance (then again, he was on a 56 win team his rookie year when he wasn't even close to being a top 5 player on the team), but does anyone have Kobe's W-L record/Win % without Jackson coaching?

Better question, anyone have Duncan's without Pop coaching? Ohh , right.

[Bosnian Sajo]

He was. He got all the blame when they were losing in the first half of the season and none of the credit after the ASG when they won at a 55 game pace and he was playing really, really well.

What the **** are you talking about??? :wtf: :wtf:

That season I almost ripped every single hair out of my head because of how frustrated I had become with Dwight Howard. Most people run to the excuse that he was injured or whatever, but he NEVER played with passion for the Lakers. He was the ultimate slouch, slow as hell, had ZERO ****ing post moves. NONE, his offense was a shell of its former self. the only reason why his stats look semi-ok is because opposing coaches would always go for the hack a Dwight. He had a stretch in March where he was playing better, but for the most part he was pretty bad for LA. That year was so disappointing for us though, so many players out with injuries and playing with consisting injuries...

[dubnation]

I understand a lot of it is circumstance (then again, he was on a 56 win team his rookie year when he wasn't even close to being a top 5 player on the team), but does anyone have Kobe's W-L record/Win % without Jackson coaching?

Pulled these from the Lakers' website.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s262/dkwunw/Screen%20Shot%202015-02-23%20at%207.35.40%20AM.png

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s262/dkwunw/Screen%20Shot%202015-02-23%20at%207.36.02%20AM.png

[T_L_P]

Better question, anyone have Duncan's without Pop coaching? Ohh , right.

The gall of getting along with your coach, right?

We do know what Pop's record is without Duncan though: a career 72-94, and 1-6 in Playoff games (he still had David Robinson in those Playoff games).

Compare that to PJAX's record without Kobe? Look no further than 94, when he had just one star player (and Pippen isn't even a top 40 player ever, unlike D-Rob). :oldlol:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

The gall of getting along with your coach, right?

We do know what Pop's record is without Duncan though: a career 72-94, and 1-6 in Playoff games (he still had David Robinson in those Playoff games).

Compare that to PJAX's record without Kobe? Look no further than 94, when he had just one star player (and Pippen isn't even a top 40 player ever, unlike D-Rob). :oldlol:

No need to go back 20 years. Phil Jackson is on the payroll of a team right now. How are they doing?

[T_L_P]

No need to go back 20 years. Phil Jackson is on the payroll of a team right now. How are they doing?

Phil could have his team go 20-62 for the next 10 years and his Win% would still probably be higher than Pop's minus Duncan. :yaohappy:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Without Phil Jackson and a dominant front line, Kobe is Detroit pistons jerry Stackhouse.

09-10 Lakers didn't even have the best front court in the their own conference so I don't see how this is relevant.

What's Kobe supposed to do win rings with his 2nd best player averaging 12/4/4?

All this talk about Pau Gasol who was the second option and averaged 18 & 10 in those 2 years with the Lakers being "too much help" meanwhile Kevin Love is currently putting up 17/10 as the third option of the Cavs and yet that team apparently still doesn't have enough.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Phil could have his team go 20-62 for the next 10 years and his Win% would still probably be higher than Pop's minus Duncan. :yaohappy:


Duncan was a role player in 2011 averaged 13/8 yet the Spurs still finished with 60+ wins...

[Funnyfuka]

everything has to end one day.

[T_L_P]

Duncan was a role player in 2011 averaged 13/8 yet the Spurs still finished with 60+ wins...

1st in PER, 2nd in +/- and Net Rating, 2nd in Box Plus/Minus, 3rd in WS, 3nd in WS/48, 6th in league-wide RAPM. :oldlol:

Meanwhile Kobe was the 7th leading scorer on his team, 7th in PER, 10th in WS, 12th in WS/48, 12th in Box Plus/Minus, somewhere between 120-140 in league-wide xRAPM, and his team still finished with 56 wins.

Averaged 15/3 the next season and his team still finished with 61 wins.

:yaohappy:

[iggy>]

09-10 Lakers didn't even have the best front court in the their own conference so I don't see how this is relevant.

What's Kobe supposed to do win rings with his 2nd best player averaging 12/4/4?

All this talk about Pau Gasol who was the second option and averaged 18 & 10 in those 2 years with the Lakers being "too much help" meanwhile Kevin Love is currently putting up 17/10 as the third option of the Cavs and yet that team apparently still doesn't have enough.
There were plenty of good players on that Lakers team besides gasol. Also cavs don't have Phil Jackson.

[TheMarkMadsen]

1st in PER, 2nd in +/- and Net Rating, 2nd in Box Plus/Minus, 3rd in WS, 3nd in WS/48, 6th in league-wide RAPM. :oldlol:

Meanwhile Kobe was the 7th leading scorer on his team, 7th in PER, 10th in WS, 12th in WS/48, 12th in Box Plus/Minus, somewhere between 120-140 in league-wide xRAPM, and his team still finished with 56 wins.

Averaged 15/3 the next season and his team still finished with 61 wins.

:yaohappy:


whats your point?

My point stands, Pop clearly can lead teams without Duncan being "Duncan", he's been doing it for the past 7 years.

if you want to hold Kobe's rookie year against him then okay but that's not helping your point at all. Lakers were stacked with Shaq and two other all star guards, but Shaq wasn't able to get it done even with multiple all star guards until Kobe became elite.

meanwhile the last time Duncan won a FMVP was a decade ago, and since then the Spurs have still continued winning making 3 finals and winning 2

[TheMarkMadsen]

There were plenty of good players on that Lakers team besides gasol. Also cavs don't have Phil Jackson.


Lamar Odom and trevor ariza were the best players after Gasol in 09

next year was Odom and Metta..

:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

[T_L_P]

whats your point?

My point stands, Pop clearly can lead teams without Duncan being "Duncan", he's been doing it for the past 7 years.

if you want to hold Kobe's rookie year against him then okay but that's not helping your point at all. Lakers were stacked with Shaq and two other all star guards, but Shaq wasn't able to get it done even with multiple all star guards until Kobe became elite.

meanwhile the last time Duncan won a FMVP was a decade ago, and since then the Spurs have still continued winning making 3 finals and winning 2

Who's to say he wasn't being 'Duncan' though? He was still very easily one of the highest impact defenders in the league, and all the other stats show he was at worst the 3rd best Spur (he was #2 behind Manu in reality).

Even if you exclude the 97 season, Pop is still only 55-50 without Duncan (and that's with Manu, Parker, Robinson, Bowen, Leonard, Green, etc...the greatest help in NBA history according to you Kobe fans).

And since Duncan has exited his prime (2008-present), Pop is 31-23 (again, a shitty record for an all-time great like Pop).

Kobe in 97-98 was clearly a role player though (he was slightly above one in 98, but he was clearly one if that's what 11 Duncan is)...barely a top 7 player on his team one year and clearly not higher than #4 the next....still able to win 56 and 61 games, and make it to the 2nd round and WCF...

When Duncan wasn't Duncan...yeah the Spurs won Regular Season games...but they lost in the 1st round, made it to the 2nd round, and lost in the 1st round again.

How did this shit even start? :oldlol: I was honestly just curious of Kobe's record without his main coach. :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

Who's to say he wasn't being 'Duncan' though? He was still very easily one of the highest impact defenders in the league, and all the other stats show he was at worst the 3rd best Spur (he was #2 behind Manu in reality).

Even if you exclude the 97 season, Pop is still only 57-59 without Duncan (and that's with Manu, Parker, Robinson, Bowen, Leonard, Green, etc...the greatest help in NBA history according to you Kobe fans).

And since Duncan has exited his prime (2008-present), Pop is 31-23 (again, a shitty record for an all-time great like Pop).

Kobe in 97-98 was clearly a role player though (he was slightly above one in 98, but he was clearly one if that's what 11 Duncan is)...barely a top 7 player on his team one year and clearly not higher than #4 the next....still able to win 56 and 61 games, and make it to the 2nd round and WCF...

When Duncan wasn't Duncan...yeah the Spurs won Regular Season games...but they lost in the 1st round, made it to the 2nd round, and lost in the 1st round again.

How did this shit even start? :oldlol: I was honestly just curious of Kobe's record without his main coach. :oldlol:

That's a stupid ass comparison because Kobe post-Phil was past his prime..

they got swept in the 2nd round last year with Phil. Phil goes and Kobe and Pau both play better next year and lose in 5 against an OKC squad that had Russ-KD-Ibaka-Harden when the series should have gone 6 at minimum if Blake makes a wide open corner 3, possibly 7 if Pau doesn't turn the ball over in Game 4 that leads to a KD game-winner.

Kobe dropped 42 points in his last Playoff game...

2013 he performed at the highest level he had since like 09 with 27/6/6 on 46% shooting, leading his team over wins down the stretch while playing 40+ mpg in March-April with some epic 40 pt/10 ast games and that 47 pt game against Portland... bad luck his achilles gave in at the end of the season...

Basically, Kobe past Phil still led a team to top 3 in the West without a bench and with Mike Brown (plus losing 6 MOTY for nothing) and the next year won like 26 out of of his last 40 games with no bench and Pau, Nash, Blake injured and Dwight hurt... top 5 MVP candidate both years prior to injury.

[mehyaM24]

1st in PER, 2nd in +/- and Net Rating, 2nd in Box Plus/Minus, 3rd in WS, 3nd in WS/48, 6th in league-wide RAPM. :oldlol:

danny green, manu and tony parker all had higher PER's in the postseason. not only that, but duncan wasn't even in the top 25 per RAPM (regular season - manu for comparisons sake, was 7th in all of RAPM), the best impact stat to date.

the last spurs' finals appearances have been spearheaded by either manu or tony with a bunch of role players (duncan). just facts.

[ImKobe]

danny green, manu and tony parker all had a higher PER's in the postseason. not only that, but duncan wasn't even in the top 25 per RAPM (regular season - manu for comparisons sake, was 7th in all of RAPM), the beast impact stat to date.

the last spurs' finals appearances have been spearheaded by either manu or tony with a bunch of role players (duncan). just facts.

But but he's an efficient role player!

[T_L_P]

That's a stupid ass comparison because Kobe post-Phil was past his prime..

they got swept in the 2nd round last year with Phil. Phil goes and Kobe and Pau both play better next year and lose in 5 against an OKC squad that had Russ-KD-Ibaka-Harden when the series should have gone 6 at minimum if Blake makes a wide open corner 3, possibly 7 if Pau doesn't turn the ball over in Game 4 that leads to a KD game-winner.

Kobe dropped 42 points in his last Playoff game...

2013 he performed at the highest level he had since like 09 with 27/6/6 on 46% shooting, leading his team over wins down the stretch while playing 40+ mpg in March-April with some epic 40 pt/10 ast games and that 47 pt game against Portland... bad luck his achilles gave in at the end of the season...

Basically, Kobe past Phil still led a team to top 3 in the West without a bench and with Mike Brown (plus losing 6 MOTY for nothing) and the next year won like 26 out of of his last 40 games with no bench and Pau, Nash, Blake injured and Dwight hurt... top 5 MVP candidate both years prior to injury.

I didn't make my post trying to spark an argument...I was just curious of the record.

But for the record, this comparison (which I'd rather not continue) was more about Pop and Phil, and how much they won without their star(s)...not Duncan vs. Kobe.

Kobe's had shitty help post-Phil and, as you've said, he's past his prime himself....his W/L without Phil doesn't mean much, but I'm still interested in what it is (even after all this, I still don't know). :lol

[mehyaM24]

one thing i will say, though, is that duncan's defense had a ton of impact these last few years. he wasn't better than tony in 2013 or manu last year, but his defense ALONE made him a pretty high impact player regardless of role.

[T_L_P]

danny green, manu and tony parker all had higher PER's in the postseason. not only that, but duncan wasn't even in the top 25 per RAPM (regular season - manu for comparisons sake, was 7th in all of RAPM), the best impact stat to date.

the last spurs' finals appearances have been spearheaded by either manu or tony with a bunch of role players (duncan). just facts.

https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/2011-rapm
http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2011.html

#6 and #13...where's this 'not top 25'?

From the data I've seen, Manu and Tim had almost dead even RAPM's last year.

Duncan had the better Playoff PER, WS, WS/48...and you're sure as hell not gonna tell me Tony was the spearhead last Playoffs...with his terribly average numbers (more like a role player's than Tim's have been, tbh).

Kawhi was clearly the spearhead last year, idiot.

Manu laid an egg in the Portland series of epic proportions (9/3/4 on 29% shooting, dead last in ORtg with an 80)...tell me when Tim ever played that bad..

Actually, tell me when he ever played that bad and his team still won, in convincing fashion. :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

I didn't make my post trying to spark an argument...I was just curious of the record.

But for the record, this comparison (which I'd rather not continue) was more about Pop and Phil, and how much they won without their star(s)...not Duncan vs. Kobe.

Kobe's had shitty help post-Phil and, as you've said, he's past his prime himself....his W/L without Phil doesn't mean much, but I'm still interested in what it is (even after all this, I still don't know). :lol

his W/L post-Phil

36-22 in 2011-12 (lockout yr)
42-36 in 2012-13

78-58 in the two years, still well above .500 and on worse teams. I don't count the last two seasons because neither roster was built to win.

[Chrono90]

It's because of "basketball reasons."

[Dragic4Life]

Good. His pathetic, carried career being over is exactly what is good for the NBA and LA.

[rapker]

He was. He got all the blame when they were losing in the first half of the season and none of the credit after the ASG when they won at a 55 game pace and he was playing really, really well.

none of the credit? because all the credit went to where the credit was due. kobe was on a different planet post ASG. without kobe beasting, LAL wouldn't have made the playoffs for Howard to choke the series away.

[Mr Feeny]

his W/L post-Phil

36-22 in 2011-12 (lockout yr)
42-36 in 2012-13

78-58 in the two years, still well above .500 and on worse teams. I don't count the last two seasons because neither roster was built to win.

Hmm. Not too good.

[JT123]

none of the credit? because all the credit went to where the credit was due. The refs were on a different planet post ASG. without Joey Crawford and Scott Foster beasting, LAL wouldn't have made the playoffs for Howard to choke the series away.
fixed

[sportjames23]

Good. His pathetic, carried career being over is exactly what is good for the NBA and LA.


Kobe sleep with your mom or something, breh?

[bizil]

Every ending isn't going to be a storybook ending. Let's say Kobe decided to retire after winning his 5th ring. He would have gone out on top and a top 10 GOAT icon. But the love of the game and chasing the greats kept him around. Which I respect BIG TIME!

But with all due respect, I think Mamba should have taken less money with his latest contract. If the goal was to win more rings. I feel he deserves the money and don't blame him for taking it. But in order to win rings, I think he should have taken less. Duncan and Dirk gave their teams more options to acquire talent by taking a lot less money.

But i gotta say that the CP3 trade a couple of years ago that fell through had HUGE RAMIFICATIONS! Their goal was to have a Kobe-CP3-Howard Big Three. I think if they would have got that done, all three would be with the Lakers today. I think CP3's leadership and style of play would have kept Howard in LA. Plus CP3 would have made Kobe's life a lot easier too.