2009 and 2010 Cavaliers

[CavaliersFTW]

66 and 61 win seasons... not just winning games but blowing out the opposition almost every win.

2009:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2009.html
1st in point differential (+8.68 average point winning margin)
1st in opponent ppg (91.4ppg lowest ppg of opponents that season)
3rd in defensive rating
4th in offensive rating
66 wins

2010:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2010.html
61 wins
2nd in point differential (+6.71 average point winning margin)

How were those teams that are so easily not just winning but dominating in the regular season exploited in the offseason?

I watched both of those seasons myself and I have my own theories and observations but I'd like to hear the input of others who watched in case I overlooked anything

[imdaman99]

2009 they were overwhelmed by the Dwight + 4 three point shooters system.

2010 LeQuittage happened.

[SugarHill]

Worst 60+ win teams ever?

[Dragic4Life]

Go fk yourself this thread is full of agendas against Lebron.

You call yourself a Cavs fan?:wtf: :facepalm

[IncarceratedBob]

LeBron is arguably the greatest regular season player, EVER.

But, in the playoffs he needs help just like EVERY OTHER player in NBA history.

[Mr.Kite]

Out coached by stan van gundy

Then Bran had an epiphany that after 2009, that he was going to join forces with dwade and bosh so he just sort of quit and hoped for the ship in 2011

[CavaliersFTW]

Go fk yourself this thread is full of agendas against Lebron.

You call yourself a Cavs fan?:wtf: :facepalm
Are you lost? I didn't even mention his name this is a thread about the Cleveland Cavaliers. A team, and so, not your type of topic.

[LongLiveTheKing]

OP is insecure about LeBron>>>Wilt.

[Dragic4Life]

OP is insecure about LeBron>>>Wilt.
This.

[Mr.Kite]

Go fk yourself this thread is full of agendas against Lebron.

You call yourself a Cavs fan?:wtf: :facepalm

Question is...are YOU a cavs fan

[DeuceWallaces]

When the team is built around one guy to succeed, and then that guy quits on his team, that team will easily get bounced in the playoffs.

[Budadiiii]

LeBron quit.

Those teams should have won the title both years but LeBron is a born choker. When the moment gets huge, he shrinks. He just freezes up and stops playing.

Luckily his teams in 2012 and 2013 were able to bail him out and get him rings.

[Mr.Kite]

LeBron quit.

Those teams should have won the title both years but LeBron is a born choker. When the moment gets huge, he shrinks. He just freezes up and stops playing.

Luckily his teams in 2012 and 2013 were able to bail him out and get him rings.

*rings

[Done_And_Done]

When the team is built around one guy to succeed, and then that guy quits on his team, that team will easily get bounced in the playoffs.

Done

And

Done

[Budadiiii]

*rings
Yeah, basically. Go watch some youtube videos on how the 2012 finals clearly favored the Heat. And his next ring was a Ray Allen brick away from never happening.

LeBron only plays well when there's no pressure, which is why he was playing well in that game 6 until the game got close again. He was playing like he had nothing to lose. Then the game got close and he started miserably bricking shots and needed Ray Allen to bail him out.

[aj1987]

His teammates were garbage. They were even worse in the PO's. Those teams were a good #2 away from winning 2 in a row.

[Lebron23]

Mo Williams suck in the playoffs. and I don't understand why Mike Brown benched JJ Hickson in favor of Antwan Jamison in the playoff.

[ShawkFactory]

Weaknesses can be exploited far more easily in the playoffs. Especially in the NBA where there are so many regular season games and so little time between them.

Kind of a pointless thread. Reeks of Lebron agenda.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Yeah, basically. Go watch some youtube videos on how the 2012 finals clearly favored the Heat. And his next ring was a Ray Allen brick away from never happening.

LeBron only plays well when there's no pressure, which is why he was playing well in that game 6 until the game got close again. He was playing like he had nothing to lose. Then the game got close and he started miserably bricking shots and needed Ray Allen to bail him out.

Yeah... living in Miami at the time, I closely followed the 2012 Heat's playoff run and the officiating seemed fishy from the very beginning all the way until the very end.

[ArbitraryWater]

Weaknesses can be exploited far more easily in the playoffs. Especially in the NBA where there are so many regular season games and so little time between them.

Kind of a pointless thread. Reeks of Lebron agenda.

This.. Bron's teammates (in particular Mo Williams) flamed out in the playoffs, and wasn't Mike Brown heavily criticised in 2010 for not making coaching adjustments? Like giving Hickson more playing time.


So right now that LBJ/The Cavs are playing well, haters are having to revert back to the past to find something to be angry about :roll:

Lmao didn't even notice that.. OP would rather see the Cavs and LeBron fail than for them to win a title, no doubt in my mind.

[J Shuttlesworth]

So right now that LBJ/The Cavs are playing well, haters are having to revert back to the past to find something to be angry about :roll:

[JerrySeinfeld]

So right now that LBJ/The Cavs are playing well, haters are having to revert back to the past to find something to be angry about :roll:

Isn't OP a Cavs fan?

[Roundball_Rock]

They overachieved in the regular season. Those Cleveland teams had a pathetic record without LeBron. Williams, as Lebron23 noted, disappeared in the playoffs. LeBron put up 39/8/8 in the ECF and they still lost. No one can win rings by themselves and the Cavs failed to produce a reliable #2 scorer during LeBron's first tenure. Williams was not that guy--has he even been heard from since he left Cleveland? Then they wound up trading for Jamison, not Amare, and Jamison was not that guy either.

In 2010 a factor was Boston was underrated. They barely won 50 games in the regular season, looked to be toast (some people picked Miami to beat them in the first round), but arguably were the best team in the league that year. In retrospect Boston winning in the ECSF is not nearly as big a deal as it was at the time, when Cleveland was heavily favored.

[AlphaWolf24]

How old was Bron 24 ' - 25?...His game lacked a consistent perimeter attack on offense.

Orlando and Boston dared him to shoot from the outside and clogged the lane. ( same thing happened vs SA in 07'...and even 11' vs Dallas to an extent)

When the game was slowed down and Bron was forced to create from the mid/post the Cavs lost confidence.

Lebron from 10' - 12' worked very hard on his perimeter game/post game and became a much better shooter.

current Lebron with those Cavs teams would have won a few titles......


sucks that he left....came back

[CavaliersFTW]

Isn't OP a Cavs fan?
Forgive him he's mentally retarded.

I want the Cavs to do well, always.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Isn't OP a Cavs fan?
He's honestly a LeBron hater more than he's a Cavs fan

[Budadiiii]

Yeah... living in Miami at the time, I closely followed the 2012 Heat's playoff run and the officiating seemed fishy from the very beginning all the way until the very end.
Yeah, as a fan of the Thunder I'm not really one to make excuses like other fanbases do. (Spurs fans being the biggest offenders)

But that series clearly favored Miami. How many touch fouls were called on Durant to take him out of games? And we all remember the end of game 2.

Plus a bunch of flopping from Miami that resulted in calls. All the games were very tight except for game 5 so the series would have gone completely different if it was officiated fairly. Game 5 was a blowout because the refs deflated the Thunder morale. They knew something was going on.

OKC wins in 5 or 6 most likely if it was officiated fairly.

[Lebron23]

Mo Williams playoff stats

16.3 ppg on 40.8 FG% (2009 NBA playoffs)

14.4 ppg on 40.9 FG% (2010 NBA playoffs)

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Even Prime Shaq or 1980's Jordan won't win an NBA title with that team.

[CavaliersFTW]

He's honestly a LeBron hater more than he's a Cavs fan
You would be so insecure as to think this :facepalm

[HomieWeMajor]

Ah the times when Kanye West's "Amazing" was used in every compilation video. :bowdown:

[J Shuttlesworth]

You would be so insecure as to think this :facepalm
Says the guy creating endless LeBron hate threads :roll:

[TheMarkMadsen]

OP was looking for some actual discussion and got 2 pages full of insecure bran stans instead


those teams were great defensively which translated into the playoffs, but the offense was never able to translate because it was too simple and easy to stop when teams realized the cavs were refusing to even try anything different on offense

unless your teams is full of ray allens and steph currys focusing your offense around drive and kicks isn't going to win in the playoffs

[LongLiveTheKing]

If someone were to write something like this about Wilt, OP would write essays trying to make any possible excuse for Wilt :lol

[Lebron23]

OP was looking for some actual discussion and got 2 pages full of insecure bran stans instead


those teams were great defensively which translated into the playoffs, but the offense was never able to translate because it was too simple and easy to stop when teams realized the cavs were refusing to even try anything different on offense

unless your teams is full of ray allens and steph currys focusing your offense around drive and kicks isn't going to win in the playoffs


what kind of actual discussion??

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/img/1.0/sect/allstar/profiles/maurice_williams.jpg

[TheMarkMadsen]

what kind of actual discussion??

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/img/1.0/sect/allstar/profiles/maurice_williams.jpg

a discussion about b2b 60 win teams that consistently got bounced earlier than they were expected too

[ShawkFactory]

a discussion about b2b 60 win teams that consistently got bounced earlier than they were expected too
But it was 5 and 6 years ago, has been talked about a lot, and is an obvious answer as it is.

[Lebron23]

a discussion about b2b 60 win teams that consistently got bounced earlier than they were expected too


It just showed the greatness and the amazing talent of a 24 and 25 yr.old LeBron. Mike Brown had Kobe, Gasol. Howard and Nash. And they underachieved in that season.

[Lebron23]

They overachieved in the regular season. Those Cleveland teams had a pathetic record without LeBron. Williams, as Lebron23 noted, disappeared in the playoffs. LeBron put up 39/8/8 in the ECF and they still lost. No one can win rings by themselves and the Cavs failed to produce a reliable #2 scorer during LeBron's first tenure. Williams was not that guy--has he even been heard from since he left Cleveland? Then they wound up trading for Jamison, not Amare, and Jamison was not that guy either.

In 2010 a factor was Boston was underrated. They barely won 50 games in the regular season, looked to be toast (some people picked Miami to beat them in the first round), but arguably were the best team in the league that year. In retrospect Boston winning in the ECSF is not nearly as big a deal as it was at the time, when Cleveland was heavily favored.


This

http://media.giphy.com/media/nqRJTIwsBftG8/giphy.gif

[CavaliersFTW]

If someone were to write something like this about Wilt, OP would write essays trying to make any possible excuse for Wilt :lol
Are you retarded? This is a thread about the Cavaliers.

For your analogy to make sense someone would have to make this thread about the Sixers or Lakers of the late sixties and early 70's and I would talk about what I know about those SIXERS or LAKERS teams.

Jesus it's like only 1 in 3 of you actually care to discuss the Cavs teams.

Those were dominating teams, is it a damn crime to shed some light on them and question or re-evaluate what exactly happened with them in the playoffs?

I tend to agree with what two posters mentioned on the first page. In 2009 we got ousted fair and square by a superior Orlando Magic game-strategy. We simply had no answers for them. Lebron actually played great that series.

2010 against the Celtics was a different story. Lebron gave up late in game 6 that series when IMO the game was still winnable. I remember Shaq seemed to be the only one playing with energy once Lebron stopped. Everyone else mirrored Lebron's energy but you could tell Shaq still wanted it unfortunately nobody gave effort after about the 40 minute mark of the game as they mirrored their leaders effort.

This is what I observed. I was hoping a few posters might add some more insight. I wasn't as much a student of the game in '09 and '10 as I am now, so I could have missed some things that were happening back then. Actual X's and O's stuff.

[Lebron23]

And a Mike Brown coach team ain't winning an NBA title. You Kobe fan boys hated him when he coached Kobe and the Lakers.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/teamsites/images/legacy/lakers/ts_110525mikebrown650.jpg

[J Shuttlesworth]

Are you retarded? This is a thread about the Cavaliers.

For your analogy to make sense someone would have to make this thread about the Sixers or Lakers of the late sixties and early 70's and I would talk about what I know about those SIXERS or LAKERS teams.

Jesus it's like only 1 in 3 of you actually care to discuss the Cavs teams.

Those were dominating teams, is it a damn crime to shed some light on them and question or re-evaluate what exactly happened with them in the playoffs?

I tend to agree with what two posters mentioned on the first page. In 2009 we got ousted fair and square by a superior Orlando Magic game-strategy. We simply had no answers for them. Lebron actually played great that series.

2010 against the Celtics was a different story. Lebron gave up late in game 6 that series when IMO the game was still winnable. I remember Shaq seemed to be the only one playing with energy once Lebron stopped. Everyone else mirrored Lebron's energy but you could tell Shaq still wanted it unfortunately nobody gave effort after about the 40 minute mark of the game as they mirrored their leaders effort.

This is what I observed. I was hoping a few posters might add some more insight. I wasn't as much a student of the game in '09 and '10 as I am now, so I could have missed some things that were happening back then. Actual X's and O's stuff.
See now you're making it seem like you wanted to have a legit discussion on the topic... It's hard to discern when just yesterday, you made a thread comparing Kobe playing with 30/15 prime Shaq vs. LeBron playing with 11/5 washed up Shaq. You're the boy who cried wilt

[ImKobe]

ahh the 2009 Cavs everyone say Lebron would have led to a title/beaten Kobe's Lakers

lost both games against Kobe that year.

[ImKobe]

And a Mike Brown coach team ain't winning an NBA title. You Kobe fan boys hated him when he coached Kobe and the Lakers.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/teamsites/images/legacy/lakers/ts_110525mikebrown650.jpg

Had nothing against Mike Brown in LA. He did a better job than Phil the prior year despite us giving away Odom for TPE

Problem wasn't MB, problem was that Pau and Bynum played below their standard against OKC. For what it's worth, he did a decent job in 2011-12 season because he got the best out of Bynum and Gasol, he also made good adjustments in some games like the OKC one that we won in OT, where he benched starters and we ended up locking down both KD & Russ with Kobe coming through in the clutch :bowdown:

To be honest, our final good year was under Mike Brown.

[TheMarkMadsen]

It just showed the greatness and the amazing talent of a 24 and 25 yr.old LeBron. Mike Brown had Kobe, Gasol. Howard and Nash. And they underachieved in that season.

getting bounced in the playoffs as the overwhelming favorites shows the greatness of lebron james?

:wtf: :biggums:

[Showtime2001]

Funny how Kobe gets bounced in the first round in 06 and 07 on 45 and 42 win teams (in the West) its because Kobe "choked".

LeBron gets bounced the in the playoffs with b2b 60 win teams (in the East) its because LeBron did all the work and his teammates "suck".

Dat Bran stan logic doe. :lol :lol

[DeuceWallaces]

Kobe quit on his team in 06? just like LeBron. You dumb-ass Kobe-Bran stans should just go blow each other and get it over with.

[HurricaneKid]

getting bounced in the playoffs as the overwhelming favorites shows the greatness of lebron james?

:wtf: :biggums:

The fact that a team that was -5.9pts/100 without him was favored at all was a great accomplishment.

[Marchesk]

LeBron is arguably the greatest regular season player, EVER.

No, he doesn't have a case over Wilt. Nobody does, not even Mike.

[HurricaneKid]

LeBron quit against the best defensive team in the league and avg 26.8/9.3/7.2/2.2/1.3 on .447? How good do you think he is?!?

[Wade's Rings]

LeBron quit against the best defensive team in the league and avg 26.8/9.3/7.2/2.2/1.3 on .447? How good do you think he is?!?

Not about Stats it's about Body Language, Hustle, Effort, and Heart.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4d-Mnfz6iB0

[JT123]

Not about Stats it's about Body Language, Hustle, Effort, and Heart.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4d-Mnfz6iB0
Wade's body language, hustle, and heart was no where to be found in last year's Finals, despite the fact that he was completely healthy.
Wade quit in the 2014 Finals.

[Hey Yo]

Are you retarded? This is a thread about the Cavaliers.

For your analogy to make sense someone would have to make this thread about the Sixers or Lakers of the late sixties and early 70's and I would talk about what I know about those SIXERS or LAKERS teams.

Jesus it's like only 1 in 3 of you actually care to discuss the Cavs teams.

Those were dominating teams, is it a damn crime to shed some light on them and question or re-evaluate what exactly happened with them in the playoffs?

I tend to agree with what two posters mentioned on the first page. In 2009 we got ousted fair and square by a superior Orlando Magic game-strategy. We simply had no answers for them. Lebron actually played great that series.

2010 against the Celtics was a different story. Lebron gave up late in game 6 that series when IMO the game was still winnable. I remember Shaq seemed to be the only one playing with energy once Lebron stopped. Everyone else mirrored Lebron's energy but you could tell Shaq still wanted it unfortunately nobody gave effort after about the 40 minute mark of the game as they mirrored their leaders effort.

This is what I observed. I was hoping a few posters might add some more insight. I wasn't as much a student of the game in '09 and '10 as I am now, so I could have missed some things that were happening back then. Actual X's and O's stuff.
http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=300513002&period=4
The Cavs were down 11 going into the 4th.

LeBron made 2 early 3pters to bring the Cavs within 4pts 78-74. At that time, he registered 6pts and 4 rebounds in the 4th with 8:53 left in the game.

Mo Williams 0-4FGA

Shaq registered no stats in that 4th quarter

After Boston timeout, Boston made their shots, while Cleveland didn't. That sums up the 4th quarter

To imply LeBron quit in that game 6 (played 46mins) and the team should have looked at Shaq and his "energy" is pretty asinine.

[Beastmode88]

Wade's body language, hustle, and heart was no where to be found in last year's Finals, despite the fact that he was completely healthy.
Wade quit in the 2014 Finals.

Sounds like pay back for 2011.

[Wade's Rings]

Sounds like pay back for 2011.
:bowdown:

[Hey Yo]

Sounds like pay back for 2011.
Except for it was D-cline's health which made him 2nd/3rd option last year.

Can't say the same for LeBron in 2011. He just took a back seat for his friend.

[DukeDelonte13]

I watched every minute of those two seasons.

[Wade's Rings]

Except for it was D-cline's health which made him 2nd/3rd option last year.

Can't say the same for LeBron in 2011. He just took a back seat for his friend.

You Certainly help your friend out by averaging 2pts in the 4th Quarter with 2 Turnovers.

[Prometheus]

[QUOTE=DukeDelonte13]I watched every minute of those two seasons.

[Hey Yo]

You Certainly help your friend out by averaging 2pts in the 4th Quarter with 2 Turnovers.
That's when FMVP consideration is worth the most when figuring all stats combined.

Wade should have done more as captain of the team.

[Springsteen]

LeBron quit.

Those teams should have won the title both years but LeBron is a born choker. When the moment gets huge, he shrinks. He just freezes up and stops playing.


Agreed, I wish he would man up and make the smart plays in clutch moments like this guy, he would have as many rings as him.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VZJKUprWg98/U4qpIL9PuWI/AAAAAAAAjEk/8BeP_mKrruA/s1600/4.gif

[Prime_Shaq]

Mo Williams playoff stats

16.3 ppg on 40.8 FG% (2009 NBA playoffs)

14.4 ppg on 40.9 FG% (2010 NBA playoffs)

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Even Prime Shaq or 1980's Jordan won't win an NBA title with that team.
In 09 and 10? Prime Shaq would win the title easily with those teams.

[Wade's Rings]

That's when FMVP consideration is worth the most when figuring all stats combined.

Wade should have done more as captain of the team.

The Captain needs help can only carry LeBron so far with him playing that poorly.

[jbryan1984]

I loved both of those teams. I really thought we were winning the title both years. I know today most of those guys are out of the league but they seemed so stacked at the time. Game 2 of the 09 ECF is still one of my all time favorite games. LeBrons game winner at the buzzer was pretty sick. I believe the 09-10 Cavs i didnt miss a second of any game..... pre season, regular season and playoffs. And i was a newly wed at the time.

[game3524]

2009-They were frauds. They had a losing record to the other top three teams(Bos, LA, and Orlando).

2010-Wouldn't have won the title, but should have made it to the Finals.

[DukeDelonte13]

2009-They were frauds. They had a losing record to the other top three teams(Bos, LA, and Orlando).

2010-Wouldn't have won the title, but should have made it to the Finals.


i think they swept the lakers in the reg season that year. You aren't necessarily wrong but there wasn't the glaring front court disparity that existed in 09.

[Bigsmoke]

2009- Dwight was scoring at will and the Cabs couldn't keep the Magic shooters in check. And mo Williams underperformed.

2010, KG, Ray Allen, and Rondo dominated their matchups, LeBron didnt play his best in games 5 and 6 and again mo Williams sucked.

[Bigsmoke]

2009-They were frauds. They had a losing record to the other top three teams(Bos, LA, and Orlando).

2010-Wouldn't have won the title, but should have made it to the Finals.

Playing Shaq and Antwan Jamison together didn't help. Mike Brown should have put Andy or JJ Hickson on KG from the jump. He made no adjustments what's so ever. Shaq by that time was a defensive liability and Jamison always been one.

[Smoke117]

This is the David Robinson effect. A dominate super star carrying a mediocre team to an impressive record they have no business having. Come playoff time it's a 7 game series and you can gameplan easier...it's not rocket science why the Cavs failed...the team was being carried by a superstar during the regular season and that just can't carryover to the playoffs consistently.

[Bigsmoke]

In 09 and 10? Prime Shaq would win the title easily with those teams.

They would just hack a Shaq all game

[RoundMoundOfReb]

2009 was the biggest regular season carry job of all time :bowdown:

[buddha]

LeBron is the Peyton Manning of the NBA. godly in the regular season, mortal in the playoffs.

[game3524]

i think they swept the lakers in the reg season that year. You aren't necessarily wrong but there wasn't the glaring front court disparity that existed in 09.

Lakers swept them in 2009.