David Robinson > Tim Duncan

[buddha]

David Robinson was a better basketball player than Tim Duncan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24NLqvKER1c
^ 71 freaking points

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkpT0QdUDIY
^ 34 pts / 10 rebounds / 10 assists / 10 blocks


if you switch their places in history i.e. Robinson coming into the league at 21, drafted by the Spurs to play with an aging Duncan then later playing with Parker and Ginobili we would be discussing David Robinson as a top 5 player of all-time as he would certainly have 6+ championships with 6+ FMVP's.

[ShawkFactory]

Puke

[Jud]

Stop. Just stop.

[buddha]

David Robinson's peak

30/11/5/2/3

Tim Duncan's peak

25/13/4/1/2.5


David Robinson was clearly a superior player, if he was able to play on the stacked teams that Tim Duncan played on I have no doubt he would have been able to win more championships then Duncan did in the weak 2000's.

[Jud]

David Robinson's peak

30/11/5/2/3

Tim Duncan's peak

25/13/4/1/2.5


David Robinson was clearly a superior player, if he was able to play on the stacked teams that Tim Duncan played on I have no doubt he would have been able to win more championships then Duncan did in the weak 2000's.
There's more things than stats....

[ShawkFactory]

David Robinson's peak

30/11/5/2/3

Tim Duncan's peak

25/13/4/1/2.5


David Robinson was clearly a superior player, if he was able to play on the stacked teams that Tim Duncan played on I have no doubt he would have been able to win more championships then Duncan did in the weak 2000's.
Look at the difference in Robinson's numbers in the playoff and then look at the difference in Duncans. Just a preview..they go in opposite directions.

DRob dominated inferior opponents and wilted, so to speak, against good ones. Duncan elevated his game against good ones. Case closed.

[buddha]

There's more things than stats....

like playing on stacked teams?

[K Xerxes]

In terms of pure ability on the court, maybe - he's in the conversation with any big you can think of. Robinson was incredibly athletic, a great defender (as good as Duncan at the least) and could produce offensively. But in terms of leadership, mental toughness and intangibles, he falls behind a lot of the great bigs. Underwhelming playoff performances can't be overlooked.

[Jud]

like playing on stacked teams?
:facepalm

You just don't get it, do you? Such a retard. Playoff performance, and defense counts too. You can't just say player A is better than player B because he averaged better numbers in his peak. That's stupid.

[TheMarkMadsen]

:facepalm

You just don't get it, do you? Such a retard. Playoff performance, and defense counts too. You can't just say player A is better than player B because he averaged better numbers in his peak. That's stupid.

D Rob was the better defender

[Jud]

D Rob was the better defender
Haha are you joking? D-Rob was a great defender, but Duncan was just better.

[Smoke117]

In terms of pure ability on the court, maybe - he's in the conversation with any big you can think of. Robinson was incredibly athletic, a great defender (as good as Duncan at the least) and could produce offensively. But in terms of leadership, mental toughness and intangibles, he falls behind a lot of the great bigs. Underwhelming playoff performances can't be overlooked.


Where do people come up with that Tim Duncan is "better" or as good as Robinson defensively? Duncan while consistently great has never been close to being the complete monster Robinson was in his first 3 years in the league. Hell from 98-2001 Robinson WAS THE ANCHOR OF THE SPURS...NOT TIM DUNCAN. He was the highest impact defensive player even in his early to mid 30s. There is literally NOTHING Tim duncan did better defensively than David Robinson.

It clearly shows who actually watched David Robinson play.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Haha are you joking? D-Rob was a great defender, but Duncan was just better.

are you joking, D Rob was the better defender.

[buddha]

:facepalm

You just don't get it, do you? Such a retard. Playoff performance, and defense counts too. You can't just say player A is better than player B because he averaged better numbers in his peak. That's stupid.

he averaged better numbers most of his career, he had a couple bad playoff series, my point was if he had the stacked teams Duncan had to help carry the load he would have had much more success in the playoffs.

the only reason people put Duncan above Robinson is because of team success, if Robinson played on those teams instead of Duncan they would have been more successful. Robinson would have easily performed better in the playoffs against the weak front courts of the 2000's. You put Duncan in the 90's without Manu and Parker and he is getting bounced by Hakeem, Malone and Stockton, Payton and Kemp and if he is lucky enough to make it to the finals Michael Jordan and Scottie, then when you get to the 2000's Kobe and Shaquille O'Neal. Duncan was lucky to come into the league when he did.

David Robinson is a better player than Tim Duncan.

[G-train]

Definitely arguable, but most you guys weren't born when Robinson was in prime.

[Jud]

he averaged better numbers most of his career, he had a couple bad playoff series, my point was if he had the stacked teams Duncan had to help carry the load he would have had much more success in the playoffs.

the only reason people put Duncan above Robinson is because of team success, if Robinson played on those teams instead of Duncan they would have been more successful. Robinson would have easily performed better in the playoffs against the weak front courts of the 2000's. You put Duncan in the 90's without Manu and Parker and he is getting bounced by Hakeem, Malone and Stockton, Payton and Kemp and if he is lucky enough to make it to the finals Michael Jordan and Scottie, then when you get to the 2000's Kobe and Shaquille O'Neal. Duncan was lucky to come into the league when he did.

David Robinson is a better player than Tim Duncan.
Both guys were great in the regular season during their best years. Robinson was better... BUT who's the one that stepped up in the big stage? The moment where it mattered the most? Duncan did. That is why I say Duncan is better than Robinson.

[ILLsmak]

Definitely arguable, but most you guys weren't born when Robinson was in prime.


I think he was mad overrated. His numbers/accolades make him seem like a better player than he was. Dude isn't better than TD tho.

His game was amazing, don't get me wrong... he had that jumper and was a really great athlete, but putting him in the conversation with all time greats, to me, is ridiculous.

Not building a team around him and I'm not putting him in the paint vs an all time great to get me a W.

-Smak

[Roundball_Rock]

Both guys were great in the regular season during their best years. Robinson was better... BUT who's the one that stepped up in the big stage? The moment where it mattered the most? Duncan did. That is why I say Duncan is better than Robinson.

This. Duncan's intangibles and ability to perform well in the playoffs is what separates the two legends.

[buddha]

I think he was mad overrated. His numbers/accolades make him seem like a better player than he was. Dude isn't better than TD tho.

His game was amazing, don't get me wrong... he had that jumper and was a really great athlete, but putting him in the conversation with all time greats, to me, is ridiculous.

Not building a team around him and I'm not putting him in the paint vs an all time great to get me a W.

-Smak

don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to say David Robinson > Shaq, Hakeem or any of the other great big men. I'm just saying that if Robinson and Duncan switched places Robinson would have had more success than Duncan in the 2000's and he would be a lot higher on peoples all-time lists.

[Smoke117]

This. Duncan's intangibles and ability to perform well in the playoffs is what separates the two legends.

Because having much better teammates had nothing to do with that, right? You guys are ****ing morons. It is as if none of you realize how much attention Robinson was getting during the playoffs. There was NO ONE to take the pressure off on a consistent basis. He was doubled and tripled over and over in the playoffs during his career. Intangibles...intangibles are what people who THINK they know about basketball bring up...so they can seem clever and witty and like they know what the fcuk they are talking about. Ppft...

[gcvbcat]

never got to watch prime DRob.

[Legends66NBA7]

if you switch their places in history i.e. Robinson coming into the league at 21, drafted by the Spurs to play with an aging Duncan then later playing with Parker and Ginobili we would be discussing David Robinson as a top 5 player of all-time as he would certainly have 6+ championships with 6+ FMVP's.

No we wouldn't because it would have never happened.

If we're going to assume he plays with aging Duncan, then we're going to assume Robinson career path is the same. He's done at 2011, so he isn't going to 2 more finals. Infact, he's an inferior playoff performer to Duncan, so I'm not going to assume he wins 2003 either. Does he even win in 2005 ?

So it's 2-3 rings at best. Not more successful.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Dwyane Wade > Kobe

[bizil]

I think u could go either way on this one. But for me, I dig Duncan's low post arsenal on the block . Plus he was a very skilled 7 footer in terms of midrange shooting, dribbling, and passing just like David. The main difference between the two is David's freak athletic ability. However if I had to choose, I would take Timmy. In my opinion, he's more dominant in the paint scoring.

But as i stated before, u could go either way. D Rob could very well be the most GIFTED (skills and athletic ability combined) big man physically ever at center along with Wilt. And even when compared to Wilt, David could step out on the perimeter and dominate from the midrange area.

[navy]

Would David Robinson even agree to this?

[Smoke117]

I think u could go either way on this one. But for me, I dig Duncan's dominance on the block both offensively and defensively. Plus he was a very skilled 7 footer in terms of midrange shooting, dribbling, and passing just like David. The main difference between the two is David's freak athletic ability. However if I had to choose, I would take Timmy. In my opinion, he's more dominant in the paint. But as i stated before, u could go either way.

Ugh...don't you ever have any stones or fire to you, boy? Every post you make, makes me feel like you are trying so hard not to offend anyone...it's fcuking pathetic, lad. Future neg for being a pusscake.

[supernova5912]

Duncan is clearly the better player considering he's been elite both offensively and defensively his entire career, won five rings as a 1st/2nd option, and is arguably the greatest player since the Jordan era. I personally think David Robinson is the better defender though.

[305Baller]

I would go Duncan>Robinson but Robinson was no joke.

[bizil]

Ugh...don't you ever have any stones or fire to you, boy? Every post you make, makes me feel like you are trying so hard not to offend anyone...it's fcuking pathetic, lad.

U are entitled to your opinion. But I'm also entitled to say **** YOUR OPINION!! I CLEARLY said I prefer Timmy! But Im giving D Rob props too. If u are to simple minded to understand that then SKIP MY POSTS!! I write how I write so GO SUCK DICK and mind ya business!! Is that fire enough for u? I just told u to go suck dick!!

[SCdac]

I love Robinson (grew up watching him here in SA and chatted with him for 10-15 minutes a few years ago, nice guy), but give me TD. Better leader imo, more resilient in the face of adversity, was able to get more out of less, more reliable offense, maybe not as good a shot blocker but defensively they're very close. Robinson is top-20 no doubt though

[Genaro]

D Rob was a monster but as all time rankings goes, lucky a lot of times plays a big part. Trade Garnett and Duncan places and Garnett is the one with most titles.
Duncan is a great player but he was very very very fortunate to end up in the situation he did.

[Smoke117]

U are entitled to your opinion. But I'm also entitled to say **** YOUR OPINION!! I CLEARLY said I prefer Timmy! But Im giving D Rob props too. If u are to simple minded to understand that then SKIP MY POSTS!! I write how I write so GO SUCK DICK and mind ya business!! Is that fire enough for u? I just told u to go suck dick!!

It's a start...:D...but I still felt you were trying too hard to insult me. You are insulting me and i want to comfort you (LOL)...doesn't that say it all?

[buddha]

Dwyane Wade > Kobe

While prime Wade was certainly on prime Kobe's level, he only maintained that level of play for 5 years and missed plenty of games because of injury, Kobe was able to maintain his prime for 13 years! probably would have been longer if it wasn't for his recent string of season ending injuries.

[Shih508]

look at all these Kobe stans being insecure!

Duncan > D-Rob >>>>> Kobe

Period!@

[Rake2204]

It's interesting to consider the trading places situation. Robinson's my all-time favorite so bias always is unavoidable when I reference him though.

But, if we take Robinson's '94 playoff series (one of the worst of Robinson's entire career) and take a look at his supporting cast and their performances as well, I feel it should at least help illustrate the complication in drawing conclusions of an individual off of team performances.

http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g423/Rake2204/1994PlayoffSeries.jpg

I haven't seen that series since it happened over 20 years ago, when I was in foruth grade, so I'm pretty much just left with statistics here. But with a supporting cast performing as poorly as they appeared to, is there much more Tim Duncan would have been able to do?

My hypothesis would be that Utah focused on Robinson and made his life miserable that series, forcing San Antonio to find someone else who could beat them (could be wrong). Robinson still averaged 3.5 assists (higher than Duncan's career playoff average but lower than his peak) but sensibly, when facing double and triple teams with support that's not supporting, isn't that almost certain doom for most?

Even if the answer to that last question is affirmed though, obviously it doesn't mean Robinson's automatically better or something. But just food for thought in terms of playoff performance and whatnot. Even Hakeem benefited from having teammates out there threatening to allow him to operate inside (Kenny Smith shooting 45% from the arc in '94, for starters).

[RoundMoundOfReb]

While prime Wade was certainly on prime Kobe's level, he only maintained that level of play for 5 years and missed plenty of games because of injury, Kobe was able to maintain his prime for 13 years! probably would have been longer if it wasn't for his recent string of season ending injuries.
Exactly. And similar points can be made for why Duncan > Robinson. Prime for prime it might be close but overall Duncan is clearly better.

[buddha]

Exactly. And similar points can be made for why Duncan > Robinson. Prime for prime it might be close but overall Duncan is clearly better.

which is why I said if Robinson entered the league when he was 21 in the OP...

Robinson came into the league at 24 years of age. He started to decline in his early 30's just like Tim Duncan, and he really started to drop off at 36 while Tim Duncan at 38 is still playing at solid level. If Robinson came into the league at 21 like Tim Duncan in 1997, like I was suggesting in the OP, his prime would have lasted just as long as Duncan's but his career would have ended two years earlier.

Their primes are virtually identical and not even comparable to Kobe and Wade.

[G-train]

I think he was mad overrated. His numbers/accolades make him seem like a better player than he was. Dude isn't better than TD tho.

His game was amazing, don't get me wrong... he had that jumper and was a really great athlete, but putting him in the conversation with all time greats, to me, is ridiculous.

Not building a team around him and I'm not putting him in the paint vs an all time great to get me a W.

-Smak

Not sure what to make of this... game was amazing, but mad overrated, numbers and accolades made him seem better? huh? Jumper? Was a small part of his game.
I think you are drunk.

[G-train]

Would David Robinson even agree to this?

No, because he is very humble and one of the best people to ever play.

[Akrazotile]

I've always said Robinson is one of the most underrated players when it comes to people doing "all-time rankings."

Dude is easily a better and more valuable player on the court than Kobe, PERIOD.

[TheMarkMadsen]

people in here hating on D Rob's 94 series when Duncan won a FMVP with identical stats in the finals

[G-train]

Duncan is clearly the better player considering he's been elite both offensively and defensively his entire career.

Sounds like David Robinson.


won five rings as a 1st/2nd option, and is arguably the greatest player since the Jordan era. I personally think David Robinson is the better defender though.

Robinson was dominant in the Jordan era.

Personally, I think Duncan is a very slightly better player.
I think he is slightly better than Robinson, because of Robinson.

But it is arguable and I wouldn't hate on someone for going Robinson.

[necya]

if i can help to give a new way to look at history...

How people can compare Duncan's Spurs, built with intelligence with a experienced staff, a very good coach, a good skull signed for years with Duncan, TP and Ginobili, adding the good veterans, role players (Leonard, Bowen, Horry, Finley, Richard Jefferson, Diaw, George Hill, Malik Rose) all the shooters who went by there, Steve Smith, Steve Kerr, Belinelli, Brent Barry, Matt Bonner, Danny Green) and all the 7 footers they found (Nesterovic, Nazr Mohammed, Samaki Walker, Splitter, David Robinson himself) with Robinson's ?
As you can see, SA has always been very well armed for the last 15 years, a bit of size, a bit of veterans, some good role players, a lot of 3pts shooters...

all these things make a complete team built to last and ready to take the crown every year. It also allows your superstar players to rest more - Duncan is playing less than 35min since he is 28yo and less than 30min since he is 32yo - TP never player a season above 35min and Ginobili has only 2 seasons where he played more than 30min...

How about David Robinson... :D Came in a team who won 21 games the previous year and finish at 56 W, trading the young and great alvin Robertson who averaged 17/6/6 and 3,2stl his last 4 seasons (could have been a great duo IMO under Larry Brown) for Cummings.
So after playing under Larry Brown for 2 and a half year, the Spurs hired as coach : Bob Bass, Jerry Tarkanian, John Lucas and Bob Hill from 92/93 to 94/95
:applause: what a good job, 3 rookie coaches, and Bob Hill the legend. great stability...
We can also talk about the legendary backcourt made of Avery Johnson and Vinny Del Negro, very athletic, great defenders, could stop all the new wave of quick and talented point guards the league have seen in the 90's...
Who can deny the role that Dennis Rodman has played during the 95 playoffs ? Robinson's fault ? dude didn't show up at training during the Rockets series, he walked away during time out, didn't even listening to the coach, even removed his shoes during time out..
that leads me to his playoffs...95 : Robinson is seen like he has been swept by a 8 seed in the first round, it is unbelievable. there was no shame to lose 4-2 against the Rockets IMO (do people are as tough when Shaq took 4-0 vs the Jazz, Olajuwon 91 and 92 campaign, no playoffs => coach changing remind you someone ?), taking into account that people forget that Horry hits the game winner in G1, and that the spurs came back and won 2 games in Houston to tie the series...then game 5 and 6, Hakeem played so well offensively and beat Robinson with ease. Underachieved ? WCF, no.
96, WSCF lost 4-2 vs the Jazz, nothing incredible here.
94, it was the most shocking post season, not because it was a shame to lose against Stockton and Malone but it was all of sudden after that game 1 that the spurs won with the manner, they doubled on DRob for the next 3 games, enter Rodman's mind... underachieved, yes !
90 & 93, He got a very good post season, but people never talked about that one.
92 DNP
91 he played so well impossible to blame him, the warriors were just too much that year. Reminds me of the Sonics in 95 vs the Lakers. Sonics played well, but the Lakers were on fire that post season.

See i could make 2 others pages as i have a lot of DRob games on DVD and now would like to talk about his individual performances. He didn't played in the same league as Tim Duncan unfortunately or not. Some like to say that is was soft or mentally weak.
His softness was able to finish 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 4th, 4th in DPOY voting with guys like Rodman, Olajuwon, Mutombo, Pippen, Jordan, Payton, no Joakim Noah, Tyson Chandler :rolleyes:
3rd, 3rd, 6th (injured miss end of season), 2nd, 1st and 2nd in MVP voting during 91-96 with prime Jordan, prime Barkley, prime Ewing, prime Olajuwon, O'Neal...I don't know if people can understand that...

Who were able to bring that intensity on the defensive hand, and score a lot of points on the other hand ? Jordan, Olajuwon come on top of my head. We have to realize how much talent and energy it asks to do that.
I always think about O'Neal, who only spent energy on the offensive hand and is always regarded without exception as a better player because he won rings... this is just not true, he has always been outplayed by Robinson in their match-ups with multi 30+ puts games except for one on March 3rd 1995 where DRob shot like shit and O'Neal played one of his greatest game offensively against a true center.
DRob also hads been underrated on his matchup, scoring 42pts on the DPOY Mutombo in 95, 40pts on Olajuwon DPOY in 94, 45 vs Ewing, and his best career game in 1993 versus Charlotte, playing Mourning/LJ/Gattison and humiliated the entire paint with 52pts 14bd 7blk on 20/28FG.

So if you really wanna compare both, imagine DRob, in a smart organisation, without Olajuwon, Mutombo, Mourning, Jordan, Barkley, Malone and ask yourself if this guy has been correctly analyzed and would not finished at better place for DPOY and MVP voting ?

[buddha]

^^ what he said

[deja vu]

Why pit them against each other, they're teammates.

[T_L_P]

Huge Robinson fan...he's the greater defensive player (in an all-time sense)...he's not a better player than Duncan. :facepalm

Robinson, like Garnett, couldn't rise offensively in the Playoffs because they didn't have a strong offensive arsenal.

Almost all of David's points came in the open court and in faceup situations..open court opportunities plummet in the postseason, and it's not exactly hard to guard a 7-footer who likes to play on the outside.

Here is prime Robinson (90-98) in the Playoffs (PPG-RPG-APG-SPG-BPG-TS%):

23.4 / 12.1 / 2.9 / 1.3 / 3.1 / .549 TS% / .188 WS/48 / 6.5 BPM

Prime Duncan (99-07):

23.8 / 12.5 / 3.5 / 0.7 / 2.8 / .560 TS% / .222 WS/48 / 7.5 BPM

The numbers look close, but even that degree of separation is what separates you from a top 30 player to a top 10 player...David was most comfortable as the #2 (to Tim)...that's when he could focus on playing defense.

Also, what people are saying about leadership and intangibles is correct...Avery Johnson, one of David's best friends, called him an underwhelming leader.

[greatest-ever]

No, Duncan's game translated better to the postseason, thus had much more success as "the man".

[tpols]

Huge Robinson fan...he's the greater defensive player (in an all-time sense)...he's not a better player than Duncan. :facepalm

Robinson, like Garnett, couldn't rise offensively in the Playoffs because they didn't have a strong offensive arsenal.

Almost all of David's points came in the open court and in faceup situations..open court opportunities plummet in the postseason, and it's not exactly hard to guard a 7-footer who likes to play on the outside.

Here is prime Robinson (90-98) in the Playoffs (PPG-RPG-APG-SPG-BPG-TS%):

23.4 / 12.1 / 2.9 / 1.3 / 3.1 / .549 TS% / .188 WS/48 / 6.5 BPM

Prime Duncan (99-07):

23.8 / 12.5 / 3.5 / 0.7 / 2.8 / .560 TS% / .222 WS/48 / 7.5 BPM

The numbers look close, but even that degree of separation is what separates you from a top 30 player to a top 10 player...David was most comfortable as the #2 (to Tim)...that's when he could focus on playing defense.

Also, what people are saying about leadership and intangibles is correct...Avery Johnson, one of David's best friends, called him an underwhelming leader.

Hakeem averaged 25.9/3.2, 56.9TS.. an even bigger , offensive disparity than between Duncan and Robinson while being at least an equal defender.. is Duncan out the top 20?

[stephanieg]

D-Rob was a freak athlete before the injury, but his offensive game was nowhere near as versatile as Duncan's. And if people can call Karl Malone, Wilt, and Pau Gasol chokers than D-Rob is one too.

[Timmy D for MVP]

Hakeem averaged 25.9/3.2, 56.9TS.. an even bigger , offensive disparity than between Duncan and Robinson while being at least an equal defender.. is Duncan out the top 20?

Is Hakeem outside the top 20?

To answer the question no DRob is great and one of the 3 players that were active since Jordan who I thought had the tools to be the GOAT.

But it didn't work that way. It's really not even a question. You watch them both play, Tim Duncan is the better player.

[houston]

duncan better than him. he more skilled than robinson

[JtotheIzzo]

David Robinson was a better basketball player than Tim Duncan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24NLqvKER1c
^ 71 freaking points

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkpT0QdUDIY
^ 34 pts / 10 rebounds / 10 assists / 10 blocks


if you switch their places in history i.e. Robinson coming into the league at 21, drafted by the Spurs to play with an aging Duncan then later playing with Parker and Ginobili we would be discussing David Robinson as a top 5 player of all-time as he would certainly have 6+ championships with 6+ FMVP's.

Go have **** sex with Shep.

Scrubinson was not a winner, Duncan is.

[Smoke117]

Huge Robinson fan...he's the greater defensive player (in an all-time sense)...he's not a better player than Duncan. :facepalm

Robinson, like Garnett, couldn't rise offensively in the Playoffs because they didn't have a strong offensive arsenal.

Almost all of David's points came in the open court and in faceup situations..open court opportunities plummet in the postseason, and it's not exactly hard to guard a 7-footer who likes to play on the outside.

Here is prime Robinson (90-98) in the Playoffs (PPG-RPG-APG-SPG-BPG-TS%):

23.4 / 12.1 / 2.9 / 1.3 / 3.1 / .549 TS% / .188 WS/48 / 6.5 BPM

Prime Duncan (99-07):

23.8 / 12.5 / 3.5 / 0.7 / 2.8 / .560 TS% / .222 WS/48 / 7.5 BPM

The numbers look close, but even that degree of separation is what separates you from a top 30 player to a top 10 player...David was most comfortable as the #2 (to Tim)...that's when he could focus on playing defense.

Also, what people are saying about leadership and intangibles is correct...Avery Johnson, one of David's best friends, called him an underwhelming leader.

:yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy: If you say so...and you do...obviously. All you ****ing children will always overrate Duncan over Robinson. Keep being wrong, it doesn't bother me one bitz.

[buddha]

Go have **** sex with Shep.

with who? is that your ex boyfriend?

[T_L_P]

:yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy: If you say so...and you do...obviously. All you ****ing children will always overrate Duncan over Robinson. Keep being wrong, it doesn't bother me one bitz.

What are you even talking about? Which point are you addressing with 'if you say so'?

I literally posted facts...Avery didn't think much of Robinson as a leader, his prime Playoff stats are worse than Duncan's, his offensive arsenal was very limited in the half-court, Greg Popovich wanted him gone around 01 (didn't feel like he was a $10 million player anymore), basketball wasn't his life like it is Tim's.

And then there's the idea the a C was being triple-teamed at the elbow. GTFO, fool. :roll:

Oh, not to mention he padded his stats to win a flimsy scoring title...in the Regular Season...meanwhile Duncan actively gave up touches to let his teammates develop their games. :oldlol:

[KNOW1EDGE]

Duncan was/is more fundamentally sound and has a WAY more complete offensive game.

David Robinson was more athletic and was certainly better defensively.

The Admiral is one of my fav players of all time. I loved him when I was a kid. But I'd say Tim Duncan goes down in history as the better player. That's no knock on DRob, who is one of the best centers in NBA history, Timmy is just a more complete player IMO

Edit: Can't fux with The Admirals quadruple double doe!

[sportjames23]

Never thought I'd see Robinson get propped over Duncan at ISH. :eek:

[T_L_P]

Also, Robinson's quad double was against the 20-62 Pistons, the 26th ranked defense (it was a Regular Season game).

Robinson posted a 34/10/10/10...the score was 115-96.

Duncan's quad double was against the 50 win Nets, the #1 ranked defense in the NBA (it was the closeout game of the NBA Finals).

Duncan's official statline was 21/20/10/8, but you can watch the game for yourself and clearly see he blocked 11 shots...the score was 88-77 iirc.

From the footage I've seen of Robinson's game, he was guarding Terry Mills (who was 7-17).

Duncan was guarding Kenyon Martin, and he made him shoot 3-23.

You tell me which performance was better.

Also, Robinson was still in his prime in 1999 (his last or second to last year of it). In the most pressurized series (the Finals), Duncan drops a 28/14/2 on 54% shooting; Robinson goes for 17/12/2 on 42%.

[bdreason]

Never thought I'd see Robinson get propped over Duncan at ISH. :eek:


Kobe and LeBron trolls finally found a common goal.

[sportjames23]

Kobe and LeBron trolls finally found a common goal.


:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[rmt]

Kobe and LeBron trolls finally found a common goal.

This. Kobe and Lebron stans with agenda to discredit TD.

Pop has always said that the key to San Antonio's long run is drafting DRob followed by Duncan - two great players in their own right.

I will say that the difference is the competitiveness. Two months from his 39th birthday, you still see the fire in Duncan in the regular season (even after all the rings/accolades) while his team mates display an alarming lack of competitiveness. Most of them (save maybe Manu whose body just can't keep up) have "championship hangover" and are coasting - playing disinterested basketball. All this leaving Duncan to carry the load all season long.

DRob didn't eat, drink and sleep basketball the way Duncan does. He had a lot of different things in his life that were way more important to him than basketball. Don't think most of you give enough credit to how hard it is to maintain that desire night after night, year after year. Saying that, Duncan also elevated his game in the playoffs - his post game is more suited to success in playoff basketball. But DRob was a physical specimen.

[Smoke117]

What are you even talking about? Which point are you addressing with 'if you say so'?



Iunno, I was really shit faced at the time of that post. '^_________^'

[T_L_P]

Iunno, I was really shit faced at the time of that post. '^_________^'

:coleman: I'll believe you this time.

[Smoke117]

:coleman: I'll believe you this time.

I'm sure I was right though if it meant Robinson >>>> Duncan.

[T_L_P]

I'm sure I was right though if it meant Robinson >>>> Duncan.

:coleman: See above post then

[Smoke117]

:coleman: See above post then

Never. Nice Neil Young Ditch Trilogy icon btw. (possibly post ditch trilogy late 70s era comes a time, rust never sleeps era before album release) Who knew any of you bastards had any taste in music? *smirk*

[pauk]

He was.

[T_L_P]

He was.

This is a guy who thinks Rick Barry was easily a better player. :roll:

Then you said you could qualify every name you listed and you bolted the thread. :roll:

[sportjames23]

This is a guy who thinks Rick Barry was easily a better player. :roll:

Then you said you could qualify every name you listed and you bolted the thread. :roll:


Sounds like his Jordan flop video. :oldlol:

[LeBird]

Duncan's better, but it's closer than you'd think considering some of the replies.

[julizaver]

David Robinson was a better basketball player than Tim Duncan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24NLqvKER1c
^ 71 freaking points

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkpT0QdUDIY
^ 34 pts / 10 rebounds / 10 assists / 10 blocks


if you switch their places in history i.e. Robinson coming into the league at 21, drafted by the Spurs to play with an aging Duncan then later playing with Parker and Ginobili we would be discussing David Robinson as a top 5 player of all-time as he would certainly have 6+ championships with 6+ FMVP's.

One or two particular games (like above mentioned) doesn't make a lot of sence for me when evaluating a player's career.
However as I watched both of them play in their prime I remained with the impresion that Drob was the better player individually, but Duncan resume was overhelming and undoubtly proped his GOAT case a lot more. As Tim Duncan's career is at his very end I am sure that he will end higher in 95 % of the people's GOAT list. The other 5 % bein Drob die-hard fans watching him play prior to 96. When comparing the two I would to make few considerations:

1) I could agree with the poster that if they switched places Spurs could ended winning it in '99 and '03.

2) Tim Duncan is misplaced center who spent most of his best years at PF behind DRob. I think that Drob who was quite quick and athletic, could pass, hit midrange jumpers could also played at PF if needed. But for me I have rated DRob as better at center than Dunkan. Had Tim Duncan played at center instead of DRob vs prime Hakeem in 1995 the result will be the same if not even worst.

3) David Robinson was not qite the same player after 1996 as he hurt his back and then broke foot (as I remember). He missed the season and Spurs finished last and that's how they obtained Dunkan as N1 Draft pick.
So when Tim Duncan arived at Spurs he have - a star help in David Robinson, who lately surrendered his leader position to his younger teamate. He had one of the best coaches ever in Greg Popovic, under who he spent his entire career. Those two things benefeted greatly Duncan's career. And by playing PF he avoid to some extent coliding with NBA's premium bigs at the time, while having height advantage over his opponents at PF. After Robinson retired the quality at center position was decreasing greatly. While Robinson faced Ewing, Hakeem, O'Neal, Mourning, Mutombo, Dougherty and others all in their primes !!!

To summarize - David Robinson better at center position, better athlete and better prime in reg.season.
Tim Duncan - longevity, consistency and better playoff performer, at PF position under Popovic system

In my opinion had Tim Duncan played the center position during late '80s and '90s versus the opposition Robinson played he would be considered on par with players like A. Mourning behind the big four of Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing and Shaq.

And I am not hating on Duncan, for me he is just an example of bein at the right place at the right time.

[K Xerxes]

One or two particular games (like above mentioned) doesn't make a lot of sence for me when evaluating a player's career.
However as I watched both of them play in their prime I remained with the impresion that Drob was the better player individually, but Duncan resume was overhelming and undoubtly proped his GOAT case a lot more. As Tim Dunkan's career is at his very end I am sure that he will end higher in 95 % of the people's GOAT list. The other 5 % bein Drob die-hard fans watching him play prior to 96. When comparing the two I would to make few considerations:

1) I could agree with the poster that if they switched places Spurs could ended winning it in '99 and '03.

2) Tim Dunkan is misplaced center who spent most of his best years at PF behind DRob. I think that Drob who was quite quick and athletic, could pass, hit midrange jumpers could also played at PF if needed. But for me I have rated DRob as better at center than Dunkan. Had Tim Dunkan played at center instead of DRob vs prime Hakeem in 1995 the result will be the same if not even worst.

3) David Robinson was not qite the same player after 1996 as he hurt his back and then broke foot (as I remember). He missed the season and Spurs finished last and that's how they obtained Dunkan as N1 Draft pick.
So when Tim Dunkan arived at Spurs he have - a star help in David Robinson, who lately surrendered his leader position to his younger teamate. He had one of the best coaches ever in Greg Popovic, under who he spent his entire career. Those two things benefeted greatly Dunkan's career. And by playing PF he avoid to some extent coliding with NBA's premium bigs at the time, while having height advantage over his opponents at PF. After Robinson retired the quality at center position was decreasing greatly. While Robinson faced Ewing, Hakeem, O'Neal, Mourning, Mutombo, Dougherty and others all in their primes !!!

To summarize - David Robinson better at center position, better athlete and better prime in reg.season.
Tim Dunkan - longevity, consistency and better playoff performer, at PF position under Popovic system

In my opinion had Tim Dunkan played the center position during late '80s and '90s versus the opposition Robinson played he would be considered on par with players like A. Mourning behind the big four of Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing and Shaq.

And I am not hating on Dunkan, for me he is just an example of bein at the right place at the right time.

Tim Dunkan?

[BuffaloBill]

Admiral is all time great. Great player to watch, amazing defender, and just and all around good person. But if I'm starting a team, give me Tim.

[buddha]

Tim Dunkan?

I think he had an seizure halfway through his post, he starts off calling him Tim Duncan then goes on to call him Dunkan like 10 times.

[sportjames23]

One or two particular games (like above mentioned) doesn't make a lot of sence for me when evaluating a player's career.
However as I watched both of them play in their prime I remained with the impresion that Drob was the better player individually, but Duncan resume was overhelming and undoubtly proped his GOAT case a lot more. As Tim Dunkan's career is at his very end I am sure that he will end higher in 95 % of the people's GOAT list. The other 5 % bein Drob die-hard fans watching him play prior to 96. When comparing the two I would to make few considerations:

1) I could agree with the poster that if they switched places Spurs could ended winning it in '99 and '03.

2) Tim Dunkan is misplaced center who spent most of his best years at PF behind DRob. I think that Drob who was quite quick and athletic, could pass, hit midrange jumpers could also played at PF if needed. But for me I have rated DRob as better at center than Dunkan. Had Tim Dunkan played at center instead of DRob vs prime Hakeem in 1995 the result will be the same if not even worst.

3) David Robinson was not qite the same player after 1996 as he hurt his back and then broke foot (as I remember). He missed the season and Spurs finished last and that's how they obtained Dunkan as N1 Draft pick.
So when Tim Dunkan arived at Spurs he have - a star help in David Robinson, who lately surrendered his leader position to his younger teamate. He had one of the best coaches ever in Greg Popovic, under who he spent his entire career. Those two things benefeted greatly Dunkan's career. And by playing PF he avoid to some extent coliding with NBA's premium bigs at the time, while having height advantage over his opponents at PF. After Robinson retired the quality at center position was decreasing greatly. While Robinson faced Ewing, Hakeem, O'Neal, Mourning, Mutombo, Dougherty and others all in their primes !!!

To summarize - David Robinson better at center position, better athlete and better prime in reg.season.
Tim Dunkan - longevity, consistency and better playoff performer, at PF position under Popovic system

In my opinion had Tim Dunkan played the center position during late '80s and '90s versus the opposition Robinson played he would be considered on par with players like A. Mourning behind the big four of Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing and Shaq.

And I am not hating on Dunkan, for me he is just an example of bein at the right place at the right time.


Tim Dunkan?

[T_L_P]

One or two particular games (like above mentioned) doesn't make a lot of sence for me when evaluating a player's career.
However as I watched both of them play in their prime I remained with the impresion that Drob was the better player individually, but Duncan resume was overhelming and undoubtly proped his GOAT case a lot more. As Tim Dunkan's career is at his very end I am sure that he will end higher in 95 % of the people's GOAT list. The other 5 % bein Drob die-hard fans watching him play prior to 96. When comparing the two I would to make few considerations:

1) I could agree with the poster that if they switched places Spurs could ended winning it in '99 and '03.

2) Tim Dunkan is misplaced center who spent most of his best years at PF behind DRob. I think that Drob who was quite quick and athletic, could pass, hit midrange jumpers could also played at PF if needed. But for me I have rated DRob as better at center than Dunkan. Had Tim Dunkan played at center instead of DRob vs prime Hakeem in 1995 the result will be the same if not even worst.

3) David Robinson was not qite the same player after 1996 as he hurt his back and then broke foot (as I remember). He missed the season and Spurs finished last and that's how they obtained Dunkan as N1 Draft pick.
So when Tim Dunkan arived at Spurs he have - a star help in David Robinson, who lately surrendered his leader position to his younger teamate. He had one of the best coaches ever in Greg Popovic, under who he spent his entire career. Those two things benefeted greatly Dunkan's career. And by playing PF he avoid to some extent coliding with NBA's premium bigs at the time, while having height advantage over his opponents at PF. After Robinson retired the quality at center position was decreasing greatly. While Robinson faced Ewing, Hakeem, O'Neal, Mourning, Mutombo, Dougherty and others all in their primes !!!

To summarize - David Robinson better at center position, better athlete and better prime in reg.season.
Tim Dunkan - longevity, consistency and better playoff performer, at PF position under Popovic system

In my opinion had Tim Dunkan played the center position during late '80s and '90s versus the opposition Robinson played he would be considered on par with players like A. Mourning behind the big four of Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing and Shaq.

And I am not hating on Dunkan, for me he is just an example of bein at the right place at the right time.

Explain the 'Popovich' system for me, please.

The entire offense for much of Duncan's prime was Isolating him in the post and asking him to create. Nothing fancy that benefited him in any way, shape or form.

That's numbers one.

Two: Garnett and Dirk were as tall or even taller than Duncan. Your point about him playing the PF to match up with smaller players is bogus. And if you watched Duncan you'd realise more often than not he was guarding the opposing team's Center (post-Robinson). Again, you're making up stuff right now. The entire commentary crew in the 01 WCF agreed that Duncan guarded Shaq better than anybody in the NBA.

Three: are you saying peak Robinson could win in 03 if you switched Tim for, say, his current version (so 94 Robinson/15 Tim?)

If so, just :roll:

David's highest Offensive Box +/- in his career was a 2.8 (in 1990).

In 03 Duncan's was a 6.3

Robinson's could never have carried that offense the way Duncan did. It relied on Duncan posting up (something Robinson couldn't do nearly as well and he didn't even want to much of the time), and either scoring 1-on-1 or kicking it out from the double team.

Again, this goes hand-in-hand with my main point: Robinson is not an all-time great offensive player capable of carrying his teams on that end of the floor (in the postseason when you need an offensive arsenal). Duncan carried his team to a title that way (most Win Shares ever in a post-season, 2nd best Box Plus/Minus ever for a title run, a +26 Net Rating with him on the floor, a -16 with him off it, etc.)

The 03 Spurs with peak Robinson would have been out in the 2nd round.

Edit: also, you are overrating Robinson's competition at the C.

In 91 his 55 win team lost to the 44 win Warriors who had Tyrone Hill and Jim Petersen guarding him.

Who was he going up against in 92? Andrew Lang? 93? Oliver Miller?

In 94 he lost with HCA to a Jazz team that had Felton Spencer and Tom Chambers (a 6-10, 220 PF) matching up with him. Robinson put up 20/10 on 41% shooting.

In 96 he lost with HCA to a Jazz team that had Felton Spencer and rookie Ostertag matching up with him.

He didn't face Zo, Ewing, Shaq (until Duncan got there and he was asked to focus 90% of his efforts on defense), Brad in his prime.

He faced Hakeem once and got murdered by him, tbh..

[Rake2204]

David's highest Offensive Box +/- in his career was a 2.8 (in 1990).

In 03 Duncan's was a 6.3

Robinson's could never have carried that offense the way Duncan did. It relied on Duncan posting up (something Robinson couldn't do nearly as well and he didn't even want to much of the time), and either scoring 1-on-1 or kicking it out from the double team.

Again, this goes hand-in-hand with my main point: Robinson is not an all-time great offensive player capable of carrying his teams on that end of the floor (in the postseason when you need an offensive arsenal). Duncan carried his team to a title that way (most Win Shares ever in a post-season, 2nd best Box Plus/Minus ever for a title run, a +26 Net Rating with him on the floor, a -16 with him off it, etc.)

The 03 Spurs with peak Robinson would have been out in the 2nd round.

Edit: also, you are overrating Robinson's competition at the C.

In 91 his 55 win team lost to the 44 win Warriors who had Tyrone Hill and Jim Petersen guarding him.

Who was he going up against in 92? Andrew Lang? 93? Oliver Miller?

In 94 he lost with HCA to a Jazz team that had Felton Spencer and Tom Chambers (a 6-10, 220 PF) matching up with him. Robinson put up 20/10 on 41% shooting.

In 96 he lost with HCA to a Jazz team that had Felton Spencer and rookie Ostertag matching up with him.

He didn't face Zo, Ewing, Shaq (until Duncan got there and he was asked to focus 90% of his efforts on defense), Brad in his prime.

He faced Hakeem once and got murdered by him, tbh..Out of honest curiosity, what is offensive box +/-? Is that points scored down low versus given up?

I will say, while Robinson's Spurs may have lost when he faced guys like Jim Peterson, Oliver Miller, and Mark West, it seems like he held up his end of the bargain. He averaged 26 points (68.6% shooting), 14 rebounds and 4 blocks in the Warriors loss in '91. He then had one down game against Phoenix in '93 (just 13 points in a 15-point Spurs victory) and averaged 28 points, 11 rebounds, 4 assists and 3 blocks for the rest of the series.

Still, the Jazz series in '94 still sticks out. The Spurs statistics look awful team-wide. Would like to see exactly how all that happened.

[T_L_P]

Out of honest curiosity, what is offensive box +/-? Is that points scored down low versus given up?

I will say, while Robinson's Spurs may have lost when he faced guys like Jim Peterson, Oliver Miller, and Mark West, it seems like he held up his end of the bargain. He averaged 26 points (68.6% shooting), 14 rebounds and 4 blocks in the Warriors loss in '91. He then had one down game against Phoenix in '93 (just 13 points in a 15-point Spurs victory) and averaged 28 points, 11 rebounds, 4 assists and 3 blocks for the rest of the series.

Still, the Jazz series in '94 still sticks out. The Spurs statistics look awful team-wide. Would like to see exactly how all that happened.

It's the # of points contributed per one-hundred possessions. There's an Offensive Box +/- and a Defensive Box +/-.

Generally speaking with box scores, if you see a player with a TS% of >.600, you tend to think they played well. The Box +/- in many instances disagrees with this (Mutombo is a good example). Players like Garnett and Robinson were much better defensively than they were offensively (and the +/- backs this up).

I do agree that Robinson usually performed very well against those players (you posted the stats). I was simply saying that it's not like Robinson had to go through all-time great Centres every round and Duncan was facing trash at his position (quite the opposite, actually).

Edit: regarding BPM, here is how to gauge what is good and what is bad:

"BPM is a per-100-possession stat, the same scale as Adjusted Plus/Minus: 0.0 is league average, +5 means the player is 5 points better than an average player over 100 possessions (which is about All-NBA level), -2 is replacement level, and -5 is really bad.

02 Duncan had a 10.6 (3.9 on offense, 6.5 on defense) and 03 Duncan had an 11.6 (6.3 on offense, 5.4 on defense). Those two years are better than any Shaq, Kobe, Garnett, Robinson, Hakeem (outside out 88 when he played 3 games), Dirk, Magic etc had...peak Duncan was truly one of the greatest Playoff performers in NBA history...which is why I find the Robinson comparison a little puzzling.

[Chadwin]

The only thing prime Robinson has over prime Duncan is athleticism.

[GimmeThat]

in Robinson we have those who believe that talent win games

in Duncan we have those who believe that the ability communicate and create something out of nothing is what keeps a team relevant



someone go change Phil Jacksons diaper about the Spurs not being a dynasty

[mehyaM24]

It's the # of points contributed per one-hundred possessions. There's an Offensive Box +/- and a Defensive Box +/-.

Generally speaking with box scores, if you see a player with a TS% of >.600, you tend to think they played well. The Box +/- in many instances disagrees with this (Mutombo is a good example). Players like Garnett and Robinson were much better defensively than they were offensively (and the +/- backs this up).

I do agree that Robinson usually performed very well against those players (you posted the stats). I was simply saying that it's not like Robinson had to go through all-time great Centres every round and Duncan was facing trash at his position (quite the opposite, actually).

Edit: regarding BPM, here is how to gauge what is good and what is bad:

"BPM is a per-100-possession stat, the same scale as Adjusted Plus/Minus: 0.0 is league average, +5 means the player is 5 points better than an average player over 100 possessions (which is about All-NBA level), -2 is replacement level, and -5 is really bad.

02 Duncan had a 10.6 (3.9 on offense, 6.5 on defense) and 03 Duncan had an 11.6 (6.3 on offense, 5.4 on defense). Those two years are better than any Shaq, Kobe, Garnett, Robinson, Hakeem (outside out 88 when he played 3 games), Dirk, Magic etc had...peak Duncan was truly one of the greatest Playoff performers in NBA history...which is why I find the Robinson comparison a little puzzling.

which is why its flawed. bpm doesn't take into account the lineups for both teams, so each player's rating is heavily influenced by the play of his on-court teammates.

rpm & rapm are the best advanced metrics to date because they isolate the unique +/- impact of each player by adjusting for the effects of each teammate and opposing player (rpm uses box score varients, rapm does not).

i also use per because it measures an individual's TOTAL efficiency, but not to be confused with accurately measuring his impact to said team.

^^ this is why i've always said manu was essential to the spurs' success, though. rapm effectively has manu as a top 10 impact player during the spurs' championship runs - some years even more important (greater) than duncan because of his on-court brilliance.

[HOoopCityJones]

TLP meltdown is progress I see.

[mehyaM24]

david robinson in his absolute prime was just as impactful as duncan ever was. playoffs included.

the fact d-rob went up against better centers actually gives him a stronger argument.

[ArbitraryWater]

TLP meltdown is progress I see.

:biggums:

It's cringe-worthy when posters try to force these meltdowns.

[CP343]

david robinson in his absolute prime was just as impactful as duncan ever was. playoffs included.

the fact d-rob went up against better centers actually gives him a stronger argument.

:no:

[mehyaM24]

:no:
:confusedshrug:

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/1995.html
http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/1996.html
http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/1999.html
http://ascreamingcomesacrossthecourt.blogspot.com/2014/03/1999-rapm-non-prior-and-prior-informed.html

^^ stats dervied from the regular + postseason. against some of the greatest centers in history, too.

[GimmeThat]

:no:


I probably take a 18/15 Dwight Howard over a 20/10 one.

I do understand he's had his injury and now needs to rely more on skills


if anyone ever wants to argue that Barkley was an above average defender for his position

I can't see how they'd want something different.

[AirFederer]

Gimme TD everyday and twice on Sundays but DRob killed a mountain lion, so there's that :cheers:

[tpols]

Duncan has peak and longevity on robinson.. but their primes are very similar. Prime drob coming into the league lets say with current old man duncan in a lockout year facing an 8 seed minus their center in the finals? Yea thats a very likely FMVP for him.

2003 wouldnt have happened in all likelyhood but all the other years would be extremely probable. Alphadogs like manu and parker could completely fill the hole in drob's game which was offensive takeover ability. And even old robinson had as much or more defensive impact than duncan in his prime according to the numbers. So if you can imagine peak prime robinson, he was an even better defender than prime duncan..

I cant believe spurs fans wont acknowledge their differences in help.. Duncan has played with so many HOFers.. HOF coaching, retardedly stacked teams.. has even lost out on half the FMVPs but theres not a word spoken about that. Drob couldve operated in the same role with the insane offensive talent spurs have had. Manu ginobili has literally TWICE the offensive real +/- rating as duncan from early 2000s to 2014.. it was 5 to 2. Duncan hasnt been the best offensive player on the spurs in over a decade.

[Da_Realist]

Huge Robinson fan...he's the greater defensive player (in an all-time sense)...he's not a better player than Duncan. :facepalm

Robinson, like Garnett, couldn't rise offensively in the Playoffs because they didn't have a strong offensive arsenal.

Almost all of David's points came in the open court and in faceup situations..open court opportunities plummet in the postseason, and it's not exactly hard to guard a 7-footer who likes to play on the outside.

Here is prime Robinson (90-98) in the Playoffs (PPG-RPG-APG-SPG-BPG-TS%):

23.4 / 12.1 / 2.9 / 1.3 / 3.1 / .549 TS% / .188 WS/48 / 6.5 BPM

Prime Duncan (99-07):

23.8 / 12.5 / 3.5 / 0.7 / 2.8 / .560 TS% / .222 WS/48 / 7.5 BPM

The numbers look close, but even that degree of separation is what separates you from a top 30 player to a top 10 player...David was most comfortable as the #2 (to Tim)...that's when he could focus on playing defense.

Also, what people are saying about leadership and intangibles is correct...Avery Johnson, one of David's best friends, called him an underwhelming leader.

I agree with pretty much everything T_L_P said.

[Papaya Petee]

Individually I have no problem with people saying Robinson>Duncan at their peaks. Robinson was an absolute monster.

However, career wise Duncan and it's not even close. Robinson couldn't get it done in his prime, while Duncan could. Easy as that.

Both the 2 greatest Spurs players though!

[Bigsmoke]

Individually I have no problem with people saying Robinson>Duncan at their peaks. Robinson was an absolute monster.

However, career wise Duncan and it's not even close. Robinson couldn't get it done in his prime, while Duncan could. Easy as that.

Both the 2 greatest Spurs players though!
David Robinson's stats in the playoffs tho..

Timmy's peak >>

[Round Mound]

D-Rob had a better all around game especially defensive wise (rim protection: blocking and team defense: altering shots, floor defense: steals etc) than Duncan had.

Duncan was a better ballhandler, more skilled in the post, better rebounder and better passer; while D-rob was a better shot blocker, rim protector, altering shots and better off the dribble 1 on 1 vs other centers.

Pretty much very close but i give the edge to a 1989-96 D-Rob.

[Akhenaten]

DRob dominated inferior opponents and wilted, so to speak, against good ones.

:oldlol:

Did you do this on purpose?

if so, very clever

[Prime_Shaq]

Peak Drob was a damn beast. Duncan's career however >

[dreamwarrior]

I concurr

[raiderfan19]

I love drob, and he's one of the most physically gifted nba players ever. But he wasn't better than timmy

[Cold soul]

As players you can say David Robinson was the better player than Duncan at his best, but what separates them is Duncan has the better intangibles, leadership, clutch, winner, etc. Duncan had the superior career no doubt about that no one can argue this. Robinson had way too many failures in playoffs as #1 option the go to guy in crunch time he never rose to the pressure when it was most needed.

[coolhandsteve]

Would David Robinson even agree to this?

He pretty much did so before. First Take had him on when they were in San Antonio for the Heat-Spurs Finals and they asked him if both were in their primes, would he beat Tim 1 on 1 and David said something like "Oh I win, easy", with a big ol' smile on his face.

Perhaps not the completely same thing as this topic here, but then again, you don't think you can beat someone 1 on 1 without also believing you're a better player than them. At least I dont, but that's just me tho.

[T_L_P]

He pretty much did so before. First Take had him on when they were in San Antonio for the Heat-Spurs Finals and they asked him if both were in their primes, would he beat Tim 1 on 1 and David said something like "Oh I win, easy", with a big ol' smile on his face.

Perhaps not the completely same thing as this topic here, but then again, you don't think you can beat someone 1 on 1 without also believing you're a better player than them. At least I dont, but that's just me tho.

The Spurs had to black out the windows in the practice facilities because rookie Duncan was taking Robinson's lunch. :oldlol:

[Wade's Rings]

The Spurs had to black out the windows in the practice facilities because rookie Duncan was taking Robinson's lunch. :oldlol:

According to Robinson he was giving Timmy the Bidness.
http://projectspurs.com/2014-articles/video-david-robinson-says-he-could-easily-beat-tim-duncan-during-their-prime-years.html

[T_L_P]

According to Robinson he was giving Timmy the Bidness.
http://projectspurs.com/2014-articles/video-david-robinson-says-he-could-easily-beat-tim-duncan-during-their-prime-years.html

Can't watch the video. It's the First Take one, right?

I don't remember, but I thought he just said he'd take Duncan if they played (not that he has and really beat Tim before?)

Anthony Davis said Monty Williams, NO's coach who played for the Spurs at the time, told him this story about them having to black out the windows because Robinson was getting embarrassed. :oldlol:

[Da_Realist]

Very good article I ran across talking about Tim's greatness

http://www.barkingcarnival.com/2013/6/24/4382492/the-enduring-greatness-of-tim-duncan-san-antonio-spurs-basketball-nba-greatest-power-forward-ever

[T_L_P]

Very good article I ran across talking about Tim's greatness

http://www.barkingcarnival.com/2013/6/24/4382492/the-enduring-greatness-of-tim-duncan-san-antonio-spurs-basketball-nba-greatest-power-forward-ever

Thanks for the link, haven't seen this one. :cheers:

[MiseryCityTexas]

David Robinson had no help in the early 90s. Sean Elliot and Vinny Del Negro were second and third options on prime David Robinson teams before Duncan was drafted.:oldlol:

[VIP2000]

David Robinson had no help in the early 90s. Sean Elliot and Vinny Del Negro were second and third options on prime David Robinson teams before Duncan was drafted.:oldlol:

Duncan won a championship with 2nd year Tony Parker and 12ppg Stephen Jackson as his 2nd and 3rd options.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Duncan won a championship with 2nd year Tony Parker and 12ppg Stephen Jackson as his 2nd and 3rd options.


Mr Port Arthur was a great role player, and TP eventually became an Allstar. Sean Eliiot was the only actual help David Robinson had. Most of the other players on his team were Terry Cummings, Dennis Rodman, and a bunch of career role players. Cummings lost a step playing on the Spurs, and Rodman didn't stay on the Spurs long enough to make a difference with D-Rob. Duncan clearly had better teams after D-Rob retired. I don't consider Willie Anderson to be much much help either, because he ****ing sucked after only a few seasons, and was an idiot that made millions and still wanted to be the black Tony Montanna for whatever stupid reason.