I'm sick of people disrespecting Steve Nash's MVPs.

[Fire Colangelo]

Tired of people acting like it's some kind of conspiracy that Nash won two MVPs. Sure there were other candidates, but he had a better argument than anybody else in those two years.

Yeah, he has flaws in his game, he's a mediocre defender and he played on a fast paced team. But he impacted the game tremendously.

The 04 Suns were 29-53, 12-22 before Marbury trade, and 22-33 with Amare. Then Nash joined the team in 05 and turned them into a 62 win team.

Those Suns teams won games on offense, and Nash was solely responsible for leading them to the #1 offense in the league single handily (with or without Amare).

Sure, Shaq had a good case as well, and I wouldn't really care if he won it over Nash. But Nash didn't "rob" anybody (especially not Kobe) of their MVPs.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

His 05 MVP was 100% deserved and legitimate. His 06 MVP should've gone to Dirk...or maybe Duncan

[Straight_Ballin]

Know your history lil bro:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31672

[Fire Colangelo]

His 05 MVP was 100% deserved and legitimate. His 06 MVP should've gone to Dirk...or maybe Duncan

People criticized Nash's 05 MVP saying that he had a stacked team. Then Amare gets injured in 06 and Joe Johnson gets traded. Nash still led them to 54 wins while ocastrating the #1 offense in the league while going for 19/11 on some ridiculous %.

Lebron was actually 2nd in MVP voting that year iirc, forgot why Duncan and Dirk didnt get love in 06. Regardless, Nash had a good case for winning it. I wouldnt call it undeserved at all.

[Fire Colangelo]

Know your history lil bro:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31672

He had Karl Malone, the 2nd or 3rd best PF of all time.

Unless you want to argue prime Amare is as good as prime Malone...

[kennethgriffin]

its not that nash wasnt important or valuable. and he was great in his prime. and most years he would be a legit mvp

had it not come in 2005 when shaq ( a man with only 1 mvp ) was clearly a better/more dominant player and more vital to his team than nash

and has his 2nd not come in 2006 when kobe ( a man with 0 mvps at the time and ended up with only 1 award ) was clearly a better/more dominant player and more vital to his team than nash


2 guys who are legit top 10 players all time ( 1 at the end of his prime and the other in the middle of his prime )

2 guys who should both have 2 mvps ( or more )



the suns had a stacked roster. and if it was truly all due to nash then those dallas teams would have won a title with him. and surely those suns teams would have made 1 finals

nash is a great player. but hes a system player. his assist production was inflated by d'antoni's offense.

kobe dragged kwame and smush to the playoffs. and nearly bumped nash's stacked #1 seed on his own



take kobe off the 2006 lakers and they win maybe 5 games

take nash off the suns and they still win 50 games

and if the lakers offered kobe to the suns for nash... theyel do it even if it meant they had to suck a 17 inch c*ck

[Young X]

Don't really have that much of a problem with them but if it was up to me I would switch his and Dirk's '06 and '07 MVP's.

[Spurs m8]

Nash sucks

/end thread

[kennethgriffin]

we all saw what happened when kobe was given an equal amount of help in 2010

















http://i60.tinypic.com/35m37gj.jpg

then this b*tch ring chased on kobes d*ck and god broke kobes achilles in half out of spite. that walking curse destroyed our team

[kennethgriffin]

Don't really have that much of a problem with them but if it was up to me I would switch his and Dirk's '06 and '07 MVP's.


even bill simmons ( the biggest kobe hater ) said nash robbed kobe in 2006

[Young X]

even bill simmons ( the biggest kobe hater ) said nash robbed kobe in 2006When was the last time the MVP was on a 7th seeded team? If he robbed anyone it was Dirk who also had a great regular season but led a 61 win team.

[Ca$H]

2006 Kobe was the closet thing you will ever see to prime MJ.

[Fire Colangelo]

its not that nash wasnt important or valuable. and he was great in his prime. and most years he would be a legit mvp

had it not come in 2005 when shaq ( a man with only 1 mvp ) was clearly a better/more dominant player and more vital to his team than nash

and has his 2nd not come in 2006 when kobe ( a man with 0 mvps at the time and ended up with only 1 award ) was clearly a better/more dominant player and more vital to his team than nash


2 guys who are legit top 10 players all time ( 1 at the end of his prime and the other in the middle of his prime )

2 guys who should both have 2 mvps ( or more )



the suns had a stacked roster. and if it was truly all due to nash then those dallas teams would have won a title with him. and surely those suns teams would have made 1 finals

nash is a great player. but hes a system player. his assist production was inflated by d'antoni's offense.

kobe dragged kwame and smush to the playoffs. and nearly bumped nash's stacked #1 seed on his own



take kobe off the 2006 lakers and they win maybe 5 games

take nash off the suns and they still win 50 games

and if the lakers offered kobe to the suns for nash... theyel do it even if it meant they had to suck a 17 inch c*ck

As mentioned in the OP, I stated that Shaq had equally good of a case as Nash did. He could've won it, or they could've been co-MVPs for all I care. Doesn't mean Nash didn't deserve it. I dont see how Shaq had a better/more dominant season in Nash, since it was arguable that he was even the best player on his team (Wade took over in the playoffs), while Nash was the clear leader on the Suns.

You're wrong about Nash being a system player, Dallas would've had a title in 03 had Dirk not gotten hurt in 03. Nash was already viewed as one of the best point guards in 03 and 04 behind Kidd.

And really, Nash was the main reason D'Antoni's shitty system even saw a light of success.

Dont wanna talk much about Kobe since he was on a 7th seeded team. But take Nash off of those Suns teams, no way they reach 50 wins. Not to mention the Suns were missing Amare in 06 as well.

Of course they'd trade Nash for Kobe, Nash was 31+ years old while Kobe was still young.

[TheMarkMadsen]

When was the last time the MVP was on a 7th seeded team? If he robbed anyone it was Dirk who also had a great regular season but led a 61 win team.

when was the last time a somebody had a more historic regular season in 06 than Kobe?

and how you gonna be MVP (dirk) when you let the other guy beat your team by himself on your home court?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/371112-nba-mvp-the-5-biggest-snubs-of-the-past-30-years/page/6

[TheMarkMadsen]

The Lakers were 18-9 in games when Kobe scored 40 or more, and just 27-26 otherwise. A .500 team with 24 games to go, Kobe put the Lakers on his back and led them to a 16-8 run to make the playoffs. During this run, he went for 40 or more points 12 times.

absolutly insane

[Akrazotile]

when was the last time a somebody had a more historic regular season in 06 than Kobe?

and how you gonna be MVP (dirk) when you let the other guy beat your team by himself on your home court?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/371112-nba-mvp-the-5-biggest-snubs-of-the-past-30-years/page/6



:wtf:

[bizil]

Due to the Suns offense, Nash was THE MOST VALUABLE in terms of what he meant to his team. U couple that with the Suns success I think he was deserving. With that said, I don't think his case was as clear as an MJ or Bird MVP kind of year. But before Steph Curry, Nash was the best blend of shooting, passing, and handles of all time. It was so fun to watch that i'm sure he earned cool points with the MVP voters.

[T_L_P]

Nash was the clear-cut 05 MVP, tbh. Duncan and Dirk had better seasons than Shaq that year anyway.

06 is iffy. That was clearly Dirk's award, imo.

[Hey Yo]

when was the last time a somebody had a more historic regular season in 06 than Kobe?

and how you gonna be MVP (dirk) when you let the other guy beat your team by himself on your home court?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/371112-nba-mvp-the-5-biggest-snubs-of-the-past-30-years/page/6
Has any player avg. 27.2 FGA per game since Kobe did in 2006?

[TheMarkMadsen]

Has any player avg. 27.2 FGA per game since Kobe did in 2006?

and that's relevant how?

[Fire Colangelo]

when was the last time a somebody had a more historic regular season in 06 than Kobe?

and how you gonna be MVP (dirk) when you let the other guy beat your team by himself on your home court?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/371112-nba-mvp-the-5-biggest-snubs-of-the-past-30-years/page/6

Funny you are using Dirk's first round failure as an example of a bad MVP selection seeing as how Kobe would've gotten kicked out of the first round had he won MVP in 06. Not to mention MVP is a regular season award.

Kobe had a good year in 06, similar to MJ in 87 lets say. But like MJ, his team record was mediocre and wasnt given the MVP.

Tmac put up just as impressive stats in 03 and didnt win MVP, why should Kobe? Has the MVP ever been given to a player on a team less than 50 wins?

[navy]

Cant win an MVP in a 45 win season.

[TheMarkMadsen]

The Lakers were 18-9 in games when Kobe scored 40 or more, and just 27-26 otherwise. A .500 team with 24 games to go, Kobe put the Lakers on his back and led them to a 16-8 run to make the playoffs. During this run, he went for 40 or more points 12 times.


crickets...crickets

[Hey Yo]

Nash was the clear-cut 05 MVP, tbh. Duncan and Dirk had better seasons than Shaq that year anyway.

06 is iffy. That was clearly Dirk's award, imo.
Amare missed 79 games in 06, yet PHX win total went from 62 in 05 to 54 in 06.

Pretty impressive considered Amare avg. 26 and 9 in 05. That's a tall order to make up for.

[navy]

crickets...crickets
45 wins.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Funny you are using Dirk's first round failure as an example of a bad MVP selection seeing as how Kobe would've gotten kicked out of the first round had he won MVP in 06. Not to mention MVP is a regular season award.

Kobe had a good year in 06, similar to MJ in 87 lets say. But like MJ, his team record was mediocre and wasnt given the MVP.

Tmac put up just as impressive stats in 03 and didnt win MVP, why should Kobe? Has the MVP ever been given to a player on a team less than 50 wins?

:wtf:

where did i say that in this thread?

stop making shit up :facepalm

[T_L_P]

You're wrong about Nash being a system player, Dallas would've had a title in 03 had Dirk not gotten hurt in 03.

Nah. They barely won game 1 going 49 of 50 from the line. They lost the next two with Dirk.

[Hey Yo]

and that's relevant how?
Because there's players in the league who could avg. 35ppg if they took 27 FGA per game.

[T_L_P]

Amare missed 79 games in 06, yet PHX win total went from 62 in 05 to 54 in 06.

Pretty impressive considered Amare avg. 26 and 9 in 05. That's a tall order to make up for.

I said his 05 MVP was more than deserved (62 wins).

I think Dirk did more with his help in 06 than Nash did with his though. Even without Amare, the Suns weren't 6 wins worse than that pretty terrible Mavs team, imho. :confusedshrug:

[AirBourne92]

kobe shouldve won both of those

[T_L_P]

kobe shouldve won both of those

The one where he missed the Playoffs, a bunch of games, and wasn't close to being the best player in the league when he was on the court?

[navy]

The one where he missed the Playoffs, a bunch of games, and wasn't close to being the best player in the league when he was on the court?
Kobe stans. :facepalm

[Young X]

when was the last time a somebody had a more historic regular season in 06 than Kobe?

and how you gonna be MVP (dirk) when you let the other guy beat your team by himself on your home court?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/371112-nba-mvp-the-5-biggest-snubs-of-the-past-30-years/page/6Why would you use Nash beating Dirk against Dirk when Nash and the Amare-less Suns beat the Lakers in that same season? Besides, what does that have to do with the regular season?

And as historic as Kobe's season was he was basically putting up crazy numbers on a mediocre/low seeded team. We've seen players do this in similar fashion and not win MVP. MJ in '87 had almost the exact same season and didn't win it, same for his '89 season. Robinson in '94 didn't win it, T-Mac in '03 didn't win it, Wade & Paul in '09 didn't win it either.

I'm just going off tradition, the best player isn't always the MVP. Look at Lebron this and last season. Was he the best? Arguably yes. Did/does he have the best case for MVP? No.

[TheMarkMadsen]

45 wins.

so? that team doesn't win 5 games without him, replace him with Jamal Crawford and they maybe win 10

He single handily carried his team into the playoffs & had to score 40 every night to do it.. he was clearly the most valuable player to his team in 06, and it was even clearer who was the best player in the league

certain media members completely left him off the ballot

if you're using Kobe's W/L record against him for 06, then you are defining MVP as a team award, and not an award that goes to the best individual player in the league.

[navy]

Kobe was easily the best player in 06.Or for most of it anyways, but lol at winning the mvp on a sub 50 win team. And yes, everyone knows that supporting cast was garbage

[navy]

so? that team doesn't win 5 games without him, replace him with Jamal Crawford and they maybe win 10

He single handily carried his team into the playoffs & had to score 40 every night to do it.. he was clearly the most valuable player to his team in 06, and it was even clearer who was the best player in the league

certain media members completely left him off the ballot

if you're using Kobe's W/L record against him for 06, then you are defining MVP as a team award, and not an award that goes to the best individual player in the league.
It's a combination of both. Clearly.

[mehyaM24]

2006 either belonged to lebron/kobe/dirk

his 2005 award belonged to shaq, but it was his only legit mvp because of lack of other candidates.

then again, my criteria involves best player on playoff team.. the media shifts its narrative every year it seems (see: jordan winning in 1988, despite 6 other teams with better w/l records.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Because there's players in the league who could avg. 35ppg if they took 27 FGA per game.

who in todays league could take 27 shots per game while not being a detriment to their team?

does Lebron taking 27 shots every night on the Cavs while freezing out Love and Kyrie make them better? no

does Curry taking 27 shots on the Warriors every night while freezing out Klay make them better? no

Did Kobe taking 27 shots per game in 06 max out his teams potential?

yes, it clearly did as the stats show, they were barely a .500 team when he DIDN"T SCORE 40, and were 18-9 when he did..

so clearly Kobe was doing what was best for the team.

[daily]

Kobe was easily the best player in 06.Or for most of it anyways, but lol at winning the mvp on a sub 50 win team. And yes, everyone knows that supporting cast was garbage

People seem to confuse best player in the league vs the MVP award. It's never been about being the best player in the league even though there are years the two coincided

You can't win it if you're on a midlevel team or you miss a bunch of games

[Fire Colangelo]

:wtf:

where did i say that in this thread?

stop making shit up :facepalm

Lol my bad, on my phone and misread. Saw Dirk and MVP and automatically thought of 07 for some reason

Like I said, kobe had a great season. 45 wins just dont cut it.... Even Lebron managed 50 wins averaging insane stats as well.


Nah. They barely won game 1 going 49 of 50 from the line. They lost the next two with Dirk.

And they won 1 game without Dirk as well, could've easily went to 7 games and won it all imo.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Why would you use Nash beating Dirk against Dirk when Nash and the Amare-less Suns beat the Lakers in that same season? Besides, what does that have to do with the regular season?


what are you talking about, i haven't mentioned a single thing about post season play in this thread. I never mentioned Nash beating Dirk

Dirk got beat by Kobe on his home court in the regular season, and by that I don't mean the Lakers beat the Mavs, I mean Kobe beat the Mavs by outscoring them through 3 quarters by himself making the game a blowout

i'm not going to take the time to read the rest of your post if your reading comprehension isn't good enough to even respond properly to mine.

[Smoke117]

Yeah because this topic comes up so much in ANY BASKETBALL DISCUSSION EVERYWHERE...right? Except it doesn't. Nobody frankly ****ing cares who won MVP in 2005 or 2006. Nobody was so overwhelmingly great and leading their team to a high win percentage for anyone to really garner any butthurt feelings.

[Hey Yo]

who in todays league could take 27 shots per game while not being a detriment to their team?

does Lebron taking 27 shots every night on the Cavs while freezing out Love and Kyrie make them better? no

does Curry taking 27 shots on the Warriors every night while freezing out Klay make them better? no

Did Kobe taking 27 shots per game in 06 max out his teams potential?

yes, it clearly did as the stats show, they were barely a .500 team when he DIDN"T SCORE 40, and were 18-9 when he did..

so clearly Kobe was doing what was best for the team.
Them taking 27 shots would still win at least 45 games and a 7th seed.

As far as potential, Odom (underrated on that team) was the only other player who was in double digit FGA so we really don't know what other potential was there with such a low amount of FGA from the rest of the team.

[Young X]

what are you talking about, i haven't mentioned a single thing about post season play in this thread. I never mentioned Nash beating Dirk

Dirk got beat by Kobe on his home court in the regular season, and by that I don't mean the Lakers beat the Mavs, I mean Kobe beat the Mavs by outscoring them through 3 quarters by himself making the game a blowout

i'm not going to take the time to read the rest of your post if your reading comprehension isn't good enough to even respond properly to mine.My bad, I was thinking about a different year. :facepalm

Why should one game determine who the MVP is anyway?

You're confusing the best player with the MVP. No player on a 7th seeded team will be the MVP. Dirk led a 61 win team and also had a phenomenal regular season. If there was anyone who was robbed it was Dirk.

[Lebron23]

kobe shouldve won both of those


And you should have been aborted by your parents. Lebron averaged 31/7/7 on 49 FG% while playing on a 50 winning team.

[masonanddixon]

I've said it before and I'll say it again-the only reason people disparage his MVP is because of the colour of his skin.

Nobody hates on Iverson's MVP even though he wasn't a top 10 player when he won MVP.

[masonanddixon]

kobe shouldve won both of those

Kobe was obviously the best player but you can't give a guy on a sub-500 or barely above 500 team the MVP.

[deja vu]

Stockton had better stats than Nash, led a worse supporting cast to far better success. Stockton never even sniffed top 5 MVP consideration.

2005 and 2006 was weak in terms of MVP candidates.

[deja vu]

Nobody hates on Iverson's MVP even though he wasn't a top 10 player when he won MVP.
LOL plenty of ISHers have been saying that Iverson didn't deserve MVP.

Also, you're wrong. Iverson was a top 5 player that year but he wasn't the clear cut best.

[Straight_Ballin]

I've said it before and I'll say it again-the only reason people disparage his MVP is because of the colour of his skin.

Nobody hates on Iverson's MVP even though he wasn't a top 10 player when he won MVP.

You don't have to be a top 10 player to win MVP, you just have to shit on the opposition multiple times throughout the season as a lil 165 lb 6'1 guy on a shitty team.

[masonanddixon]

LOL plenty of ISHers have been saying that Iverson didn't deserve MVP.

Also, you're wrong. Iverson was a top 5 player that year but he wasn't the clear cut best.

Not even close

Kobe
Duncan
Shaq
Dirk
KG
Webber

were at least all better

[TheMarkMadsen]

Not even close

Kobe
Duncan
Shaq
Dirk
KG
Webber

were at least all better

:roll: :roll:

[masonanddixon]

:roll: :roll:

Good point, son.

[LoneyROY7]

Not even close

Kobe
Duncan
Shaq
Dirk
KG
Webber

were at least all better

Says Iverson wasn't a top 10 player...then lists only 6 players. :roll:

[keep-itreal]

that suns team was very entertaining to watch.:rockon:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

2006 = inflated stats years. heck a 21 year old LeBron had better stats and more wins with an even worse supporting cast that year.

[navy]

Stockton had better stats than Nash, led a worse supporting cast to far better success. Stockton never even sniffed top 5 MVP consideration.

2005 and 2006 was weak in terms of MVP candidates.
Karl Malone was on his team and won mvps...

[bdreason]

He's arguably the worst player in the history of the sport to win the award... and he won it TWICE. That doesn't mean he didn't deserve it, but that's why people complain.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

He's arguably the worst player in the history of the sport to win the award... and he won it TWICE. That doesn't mean he didn't deserve it, but that's why people complain.
No he isn't not even close. He was a better player than both Derrick Rose and Allen Iverson were...rather easily.

[bdreason]

Nobody hates on Iverson's MVP even though he wasn't a top 10 player when he won MVP.


People hate on AI's MVP all the time. And the only reason he really won it, was because the 76ers won the Eastern Conference that year by like 6-8 games.

I don't remember if Nash had the #1 seed for either of his MVP's, but I don't think so.

[bdreason]

No he isn't not even close. He was a better player than both Derrick Rose and Allen Iverson were...rather easily.


I'll give you D. Rose, and AI is arguable... that still means he's top 3 worst MVP's of all time... and he won TWICE.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I'll give you D. Rose, and AI is arguable... that still means he's top 3 worst MVP's of all time... and he won TWICE.
He's better than Bob Cousy too. :lol

[bdreason]

He's better than Bob Cousy too. :lol


Cousy was a 13x All-Star, 12x All-NBA, 8x League assist leader, and won 6 NBA championships.


I didn't watch him play, but it's pretty obvious he was a more dominant player than Nash in his time.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Cousy was a 13x All-Star, 12x All-NBA, 8x League assist leader, and won 6 NBA championships.


I didn't watch him play, but it's pretty obvious he was a more dominant player than Nash in his time.
weak era. Trust me Nash is way better.

[tpols]

its funny how everywhere marbury went the team sucked balls.. and then when kidd and nash replaced him the teams just took off.

[game3524]

Because there's players in the league who could avg. 35ppg if they took 27 FGA per game.

People who say this just show they have no concept about how basketball works. Do you know how hard it is to get up 27 shots against NBA defenses?

Shot-creating has become so underrated as a skill.

[Prime_Shaq]

Shaq > Nash in 05. Shaq's impact is unparalleled.

[Fire Colangelo]

He's arguably the worst player in the history of the sport to win the award... and he won it TWICE. That doesn't mean he didn't deserve it, but that's why people complain.

Rose and Iverson in recent memory, plus Harden/Curry if one of them wins this year. Add Unseld and Cowens to the list if we go back a bit.

Makes him top 5 worst, which is fine with me. What irritates me is when people saying Kobe of all people should've won, or when people act like it was because of race (or some other dumb reason). I've heard it all.

[DatAsh]

Agree completely. Nash is easily a top 10 offensive player of all time, and he played a position for which defense matters very little.

[tpols]

Rose and Iverson in recent memory, plus Harden/Curry if one of them wins this year. Add Unseld and Cowens to the list if we go back a bit.

Makes him top 5 worst, which is fine with me. What irritates me is when people saying Kobe of all people should've won, or when people act like it was because of race (or some other dumb reason). I've heard it all.

Agreed.. he had great teams.. but can you imagine amare and joe johnson doing anything together besides rotating isos? Nash was the motor who facilitated the machine.. even kobe or Lebron or wade couldn't glue that team together like nash did. They could probably carry shit teams farther than nash could but in those years he was just the perfect fit in the perfect situation

[Smoke117]

Rose and Iverson in recent memory, plus Harden/Curry if one of them wins this year. Add Unseld and Cowens to the list if we go back a bit.

Makes him top 5 worst, which is fine with me. What irritates me is when people saying Kobe of all people should've won, or when people act like it was because of race (or some other dumb reason). I've heard it all.

You're an idiot. Weakness in MVP is related to the players in the NBA and League. When Harden or Curry wins they will have deserved it IN THIS LEAGUE THIS SEASON. How that pertains to other players of other seasons isn't all that important. It's not like either will have won it over more deserving players like Rose and Iverson did.

[Fire Colangelo]

You're an idiot. Weakness in MVP is related to the players in the NBA and League. When Harden or Curry wins they will have deserved it IN THIS LEAGUE THIS SEASON. How that pertains to other players of other seasons isn't all that important. It's not like either will have won it over more deserving players like Rose and Iverson did.

Idk why you're so angry all the time.

I was simply responding to a post that said "Nash is the worst player in NBA history to win MVP". Worst player in history... that means compared to the rest of the MVP winners, Nash is ranked last. Nothing was said about the strength of his MVPs.... nothing.

To respond to your post, I'd agree with you. If Curry wins MVP this year, he'd deserve it, just like Nash did in 05, and to some extent 06. But Nash would be the better player than Curry.

[Akrazotile]

You can argue for more than one person each year, obviously, but at the end of the day Nash was definitely one of the worthy candidates both times.

[masonanddixon]

People hate on AI's MVP all the time. And the only reason he really won it, was because the 76ers won the Eastern Conference that year by like 6-8 games.

I don't remember if Nash had the #1 seed for either of his MVP's, but I don't think so.

I believe they were the #1 seed in 04-5 (won like 63 games).

[ImKobe]

2006 Kobe was the closet thing you will ever see to prime MJ.

true dat.

[Smoke117]

2006 = inflated stats years. heck a 21 year old LeBron had better stats and more wins with an even worse supporting cast that year.

You're a ****ing douchebag...but good point. Nearly everyone AT EVERY POSITION saw a rise in efficiency in 06 when the rules changed. Nobody's legacy benefited from it more than Kobrick.