Another LeBron thread. (Bird>LeBron)

[305Baller]

For a while I was propping up LeBron as the greatest small forward of all-time, and he may be the most physically dominant three of all time, but after watching this last game (Cavs vs Rockets) where Bron chokes the last two free-throws it really shows the difference between Larry Bird and James.

Bird was an assassin, LeBron is a great force but just not as good a basketball player.

There's just no way Bird chokes those free throws, right?

LeBron is out of my top 5:

Kareem
Duncan
Bird
Jordan
Magic

[SHAQisGOAT]

Both had the best peak at the SF position... Comparing them, as far as that, even if very close, Bird gets the edge overall. Larry's a bit above and has a top5 all-time peak.

Bron can't really mess with a player like Bird in the clutch though, no... Even so, stuff like those miss FT's can happen, even to the best players, even to Larry Legend himself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGIBqZkg0GY

[305Baller]

Both had the best peak at the SF position... Comparing them, as far as that, even if very close, Bird gets the edge overall. Larry's a bit above and has a top5 all-time peak.

Bron can't really mess with a player like Bird in the clutch though, no... Even so, stuff like those miss FT's can happen, even to the best players, even to Larry Legend: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGIBqZkg0GY


I had heard about that incident. Definitely not the norm from Bird.

[Im Still Ballin]

You guys are idiots.

Lebron is LITERALLY the greatest individual talent of all time

1 on 1? Lebron CRUSHES Larry.

Build a team around? Lebron, no questions.

Insert player into all-time stacked squad? Bird.

[Im Still Ballin]

You guys are idiots.

Lebron is LITERALLY the greatest individual talent of all time

1 on 1? Lebron CRUSHES Larry.

Build a team around? Lebron, no questions.

Insert player into all-time stacked squad? Bird.
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

[305Baller]

You guys are idiots.

Lebron is LITERALLY the greatest individual talent of all time

1 on 1? Lebron CRUSHES Larry.

Build a team around? Lebron, no questions.

Insert player into all-time stacked squad? Bird.

Not literally. But, yeah if it's game 7 in the finals, 4th quarter... Im taking peak Larry. Which is exactly what this thread is about.

http://i.imgur.com/9wsCyFj.gif

[Im Still Ballin]

Yeah but if it's game 7 in the finals, 4th quarter... Im taking Peak Larry. Which is exactly what this thread is about.
What does this even mean? Do you realize Lebron is the game 7 scoring leader in NBA history? Are you aware he scored near 40 points on 25 shots including 5 three pointers and a clutch dagger to beat the Spurs in game 7 in the finals? Do you understand you are not really making any sense here? Your logic implies that you'd take Jose Caulderon over Lebron because he has a better FT % and because Lebron missed some free throws in a regular season game against Houston in March?

Gee Wizz.

[Im Still Ballin]

What does this even mean? Do you realize Lebron is the game 7 scoring leader in NBA history? Are you aware he scored near 40 points on 25 shots including 5 three pointers and a clutch dagger to beat the Spurs in game 7 in the finals? Do you understand you are not really making any sense here? Your logic implies that you'd take Jose Caulderon over Lebron because he has a better FT % and because Lebron missed some free throws in a regular season game against Houston in March?

Gee Wizz.
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

[Lebron23]

http://www.basket4us.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/485759745-e1398058935544.jpg

NBA Championships and Seasons

NBA Championships
Larry Bird 3
LeBron James 2

NBA Seasons

Larry Bird 13
LeBron James 12

Playoffs Played

Larry Bird 12
LeBron James 9

All-Star Games

Larry Bird 12
LeBron James 11

Honors and Awards

Season MVP

Larry Bird 3
LeBron James 4

Finals MVP

Larry Bird 2
LeBron James 2

All-NBA First Team

Larry Bird 9
LeBron James 8

All-NBA Teams
(Total Selections)

Larry Bird 10
LeBron James 10

All-Defensive First Team

Larry Bird 0
LeBron James 5

All-Defensive Teams

Larry Bird 3
LeBron James 6

Scoring Leader

Larry Bird 0
LeBron James 1

Rookie of The Year

Larry Bird 1
LeBron James 1

Lebron and Bird (Regular Season, Playoffs, and Finals Stats)

Lebron James

Regular Season

27.4 ppg on 49.6 FG%, 7.2 rpg, 6.9 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.8 bpg

Playoffs

28.1 ppg on 48.2 FG%, 8.5 rpg, 6.5 apg, 1.7 spg, and 0.9 bpg.

Finals Stats

24.3 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 6.4 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.6 bpg, 3.8 tov, 46.3 FG%, 76.1 FT%, 54.6 TS%

Larry Bird

Regular Season

24.3 ppg on 49.6 FG%, 10.0 rpg, 6.3 apg, 1.7 spg, and 0.8 bpg

Playoffs

23.8 ppg on 47.2 FG%, 10.3 rpg, 6.5 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.9 bpg

Finals

23.1 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 6.0 apg, 2.0 spg, 0.8 bpg, 2.9 tov, 45.6 FG%, 87.2 FT%, 53.4 TS%

http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/b/larry_bird_vs_lebron_james.htm


Totals Stats (Regular Season)

Total Points
Larry Bird 21,791
LeBron James 24,481

Total Rebounds
Larry Bird 8,974
LeBron James 6,638

Total Assists
Larry Bird 5,695
LeBron James 6,152

Total Steals
Larry Bird 1,556
LeBron James 1,552

Total Blocks
Larry Bird 755
LeBron James 710

Total Games
Larry Bird 897
LeBron James 891

Totals Stats (Playoffs)

Total Points
Larry Bird 3,897
LeBron James 4,419

Total Rebounds
Larry Bird 1,683
LeBron James 1,332

Total Assists
Larry Bird 1,062
LeBron James 1,019

Total Steals
Larry Bird 296
LeBron James 273

Total Blocks
Larry Bird 145
LeBron James 139

Total Games
Larry Bird 164
LeBron James 158

[305Baller]

What does this even mean? Do you realize Lebron is the game 7 scoring leader in NBA history? Are you aware he scored near 40 points on 25 shots including 5 three pointers and a clutch dagger to beat the Spurs in game 7 in the finals? Do you understand you are not really making any sense here? Your logic implies that you'd take Jose Caulderon over Lebron because he has a better FT % and because Lebron missed some free throws in a regular season game against Houston in March?

Gee Wizz.

LeBron's an awesome player. This generation's Wilt. But not the crafty marksman that is the best SF of all-time. Who's clutch hijinx inspired generations of NBA legions.

LeBron's awesome...but Larry Bird was the better basketball player.

http://i.imgur.com/9wsCyFj.gif

[Im Still Ballin]

http://www.basket4us.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/485759745-e1398058935544.jpg

NBA Championships and Seasons

NBA Championships
Larry Bird 3
LeBron James 2

NBA Seasons

Larry Bird 13
LeBron James 12

Playoffs Played

Larry Bird 12
LeBron James 9

All-Star Games

Larry Bird 12
LeBron James 11

Honors and Awards

Season MVP

Larry Bird 3
LeBron James 4

Finals MVP

Larry Bird 2
LeBron James 2

All-NBA First Team

Larry Bird 9
LeBron James 8

All-NBA Teams
(Total Selections)

Larry Bird 10
LeBron James 10

All-Defensive First Team

Larry Bird 0
LeBron James 5

All-Defensive Teams

Larry Bird 3
LeBron James 6

Scoring Leader

Larry Bird 0
LeBron James 1

Rookie of The Year

Larry Bird 1
LeBron James 1

Lebron and Bird (Regular Season, Playoffs, and Finals Stats)

Lebron James

Regular Season

27.4 ppg on 49.6 FG%, 7.2 rpg, 6.9 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.8 bpg

Playoffs

28.1 ppg on 48.2 FG%, 8.5 rpg, 6.5 apg, 1.7 spg, and 0.9 bpg.

Finals Stats

24.3 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 6.4 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.6 bpg, 3.8 tov, 46.3 FG%, 76.1 FT%, 54.6 TS%

Larry Bird

Regular Season

24.3 ppg on 49.6 FG%, 10.0 rpg, 6.3 apg, 1.7 spg, and 0.8 bpg

Playoffs

23.8 ppg on 47.2 FG%, 10.3 rpg, 6.5 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.9 bpg

Finals

23.1 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 6.0 apg, 2.0 spg, 0.8 bpg, 2.9 tov, 45.6 FG%, 87.2 FT%, 53.4 TS%

http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/b/larry_bird_vs_lebron_james.htm


Totals Stats (Regular Season)

Total Points
Larry Bird 21,791
LeBron James 24,481

Total Rebounds
Larry Bird 8,974
LeBron James 6,638

Total Assists
Larry Bird 5,695
LeBron James 6,152

Total Steals
Larry Bird 1,556
LeBron James 1,552

Total Blocks
Larry Bird 755
LeBron James 710

Total Games
Larry Bird 897
LeBron James 891

Totals Stats (Playoffs)

Total Points
Larry Bird 3,897
LeBron James 4,419

Total Rebounds
Larry Bird 1,683
LeBron James 1,332

Total Assists
Larry Bird 1,062
LeBron James 1,019

Total Steals
Larry Bird 296
LeBron James 273

Total Blocks
Larry Bird 145
LeBron James 139

Total Games
Larry Bird 164
LeBron James 158
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

[305Baller]

http://www.basket4us.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/485759745-e1398058935544.jpg

NBA Championships and Seasons

NBA Championships
Larry Bird 3
LeBron James 2

NBA Seasons

Larry Bird 13
LeBron James 12

Playoffs Played

Larry Bird 12
LeBron James 9

All-Star Games

Larry Bird 12
LeBron James 11

Honors and Awards

Season MVP

Larry Bird 3
LeBron James 4

Finals MVP

Larry Bird 2
LeBron James 2

All-NBA First Team

Larry Bird 9
LeBron James 8

All-NBA Teams
(Total Selections)

Larry Bird 10
LeBron James 10

All-Defensive First Team

Larry Bird 0
LeBron James 5

All-Defensive Teams

Larry Bird 3
LeBron James 6

Scoring Leader

Larry Bird 0
LeBron James 1

Rookie of The Year

Larry Bird 1
LeBron James 1

Lebron and Bird (Regular Season, Playoffs, and Finals Stats)

Lebron James

Regular Season

27.4 ppg on 49.6 FG%, 7.2 rpg, 6.9 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.8 bpg

Playoffs

28.1 ppg on 48.2 FG%, 8.5 rpg, 6.5 apg, 1.7 spg, and 0.9 bpg.

Finals Stats

24.3 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 6.4 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.6 bpg, 3.8 tov, 46.3 FG%, 76.1 FT%, 54.6 TS%

Larry Bird

Regular Season

24.3 ppg on 49.6 FG%, 10.0 rpg, 6.3 apg, 1.7 spg, and 0.8 bpg

Playoffs

23.8 ppg on 47.2 FG%, 10.3 rpg, 6.5 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.9 bpg

Finals

23.1 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 6.0 apg, 2.0 spg, 0.8 bpg, 2.9 tov, 45.6 FG%, 87.2 FT%, 53.4 TS%

http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/b/larry_bird_vs_lebron_james.htm


Totals Stats (Regular Season)

Total Points
Larry Bird 21,791
LeBron James 24,481

Total Rebounds
Larry Bird 8,974
LeBron James 6,638

Total Assists
Larry Bird 5,695
LeBron James 6,152

Total Steals
Larry Bird 1,556
LeBron James 1,552

Total Blocks
Larry Bird 755
LeBron James 710

Total Games
Larry Bird 897
LeBron James 891

Totals Stats (Playoffs)

Total Points
Larry Bird 3,897
LeBron James 4,419

Total Rebounds
Larry Bird 1,683
LeBron James 1,332

Total Assists
Larry Bird 1,062
LeBron James 1,019

Total Steals
Larry Bird 296
LeBron James 273

Total Blocks
Larry Bird 145
LeBron James 139

Total Games
Larry Bird 164
LeBron James 158

LeBron will win the productivity game but stats don't tell the whole story. The big difference being that LeBron has been playing since high school and Larry Bird's career was cut short due to injury.

http://i.imgur.com/9wsCyFj.gif

[Im Still Ballin]

The big difference being that LeBron has been playing since high school and Larry Bird's career was cut short due to injury. Stats don't tell the whole story.
And stats don't account for how weak defenses were during Bird's tenure as compared to Lebron's career span

[305Baller]

And stats don't account for how weak defenses were during Bird's tenure as compared to Lebron's career span

True. But in a game of 1on1, Im thinking Bird on HGH could not only outshoot LeBron out on the perimeter but if he kept the game close he would win in the clutch. LeBron would not have Ray Allen.

http://i.imgur.com/9wsCyFj.gif

[Im Still Ballin]

True. But in a game of 1on1, Im thinking Bird on HGH could not only outshoot LeBron out on the perimeter but if he kept the game close he would win in the clutch. LeBron would not have Ray Allen.

http://i.imgur.com/9wsCyFj.gif
Alright now I know you're clearly trolling

[305Baller]

Alright now I know you're clearly trolling

Im not trolling. I said the HGH thing in jest. I just know Bird is more reliable.

[Im Still Ballin]

Im not trolling. I say the HGH thing in jest. I just know Bird is more reliable.
Reliable at what? Making a free throw? Sure. But Jose Caulderon is even more reliable.

[305Baller]

Reliable at what? Making a free throw? Sure. But Jose Caulderon is even more reliable.

What is with your fascination with Calderon? :oldlol:

Larry Bird was just a more complete player. LeBrons all around game with Jordan's killer instinct and Ray Allen's shooting.

[sportjames23]

LeBron's an awesome player. This generation's Wilt. But not the crafty marksman that is the best SF of all-time. Who's clutch hijinx inspired generations of NBA legions.

LeBron's awesome...but Larry Bird was the better basketball player.

http://i.imgur.com/9wsCyFj.gif


Damned him with faint praises. :oldlol:

[knicksman]

http://www.basket4us.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/485759745-e1398058935544.jpg

NBA Championships and Seasons

NBA Championships
Larry Bird 3
LeBron James 2

NBA Seasons

Larry Bird 13
LeBron James 12

Playoffs Played

Larry Bird 12
LeBron James 9

All-Star Games

Larry Bird 12
LeBron James 11

Honors and Awards

Season MVP

Larry Bird 3
LeBron James 4

Finals MVP

Larry Bird 2
LeBron James 2

All-NBA First Team

Larry Bird 9
LeBron James 8

All-NBA Teams
(Total Selections)

Larry Bird 10
LeBron James 10

All-Defensive First Team

Larry Bird 0
LeBron James 5

All-Defensive Teams

Larry Bird 3
LeBron James 6

Scoring Leader

Larry Bird 0
LeBron James 1

Rookie of The Year

Larry Bird 1
LeBron James 1

Lebron and Bird (Regular Season, Playoffs, and Finals Stats)

Lebron James

Regular Season

27.4 ppg on 49.6 FG%, 7.2 rpg, 6.9 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.8 bpg

Playoffs

28.1 ppg on 48.2 FG%, 8.5 rpg, 6.5 apg, 1.7 spg, and 0.9 bpg.

Finals Stats

24.3 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 6.4 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.6 bpg, 3.8 tov, 46.3 FG%, 76.1 FT%, 54.6 TS%

Larry Bird

Regular Season

24.3 ppg on 49.6 FG%, 10.0 rpg, 6.3 apg, 1.7 spg, and 0.8 bpg

Playoffs

23.8 ppg on 47.2 FG%, 10.3 rpg, 6.5 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.9 bpg

Finals

23.1 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 6.0 apg, 2.0 spg, 0.8 bpg, 2.9 tov, 45.6 FG%, 87.2 FT%, 53.4 TS%

http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/b/larry_bird_vs_lebron_james.htm


Totals Stats (Regular Season)

Total Points
Larry Bird 21,791
LeBron James 24,481

Total Rebounds
Larry Bird 8,974
LeBron James 6,638

Total Assists
Larry Bird 5,695
LeBron James 6,152

Total Steals
Larry Bird 1,556
LeBron James 1,552

Total Blocks
Larry Bird 755
LeBron James 710

Total Games
Larry Bird 897
LeBron James 891

Totals Stats (Playoffs)

Total Points
Larry Bird 3,897
LeBron James 4,419

Total Rebounds
Larry Bird 1,683
LeBron James 1,332

Total Assists
Larry Bird 1,062
LeBron James 1,019

Total Steals
Larry Bird 296
LeBron James 273

Total Blocks
Larry Bird 145
LeBron James 139

Total Games
Larry Bird 164
LeBron James 158


3>>2

[ArbitraryWater]

Last night's game made you revise your LeBron/Bird comparison :wtf: :roll:

What the hell is happening to people.... ISH at its best.

[305Baller]

Last night's game made you revise your LeBron/Bird comparison :wtf: :roll:

What the hell is happening to people.... ISH at its best.

It may seem like a knee-jerk reaction, and maybe it is. But just the overall body of work for LeBron at this point is making me reconsider his position. He has just never been the guy to consistently take over when needed. He can do it in flashes but not at the level Bird displayed.

[ArbitraryWater]

It may seem like a knee-jerk reaction, and maybe it is. But just the overall body of work for LeBron at this point is making me reconsider his position. He has just never been the guy to consistently take over when needed. He can do it in flashes but not at the level Bird displayed.

knee-jerk? Oh hell nah... Bird scored 10+ pts in the 4th and finished it with an eyes closed game winner in every competitive game there was.

http://i.gyazo.com/9e8eb8f29bd7059987fa2f272f5eef98.png

Bird just went from 7 to top 5 in the last 6 months :applause:

He really been playing outta his mind these last few months..

[Roundball_Rock]

http://www.basket4us.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/485759745-e1398058935544.jpg

NBA Championships and Seasons

NBA Championships
Larry Bird 3
LeBron James 2

NBA Seasons

Larry Bird 13
LeBron James 12

Playoffs Played

Larry Bird 12
LeBron James 9

All-Star Games

Larry Bird 12
LeBron James 11

Honors and Awards

Season MVP

Larry Bird 3
LeBron James 4

Finals MVP

Larry Bird 2
LeBron James 2

All-NBA First Team

Larry Bird 9
LeBron James 8

All-NBA Teams
(Total Selections)

Larry Bird 10
LeBron James 10

All-Defensive First Team

Larry Bird 0
LeBron James 5

All-Defensive Teams

Larry Bird 3
LeBron James 6

Scoring Leader

Larry Bird 0
LeBron James 1

Rookie of The Year

Larry Bird 1
LeBron James 1

Lebron and Bird (Regular Season, Playoffs, and Finals Stats)

Lebron James

Regular Season

27.4 ppg on 49.6 FG%, 7.2 rpg, 6.9 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.8 bpg

Playoffs

28.1 ppg on 48.2 FG%, 8.5 rpg, 6.5 apg, 1.7 spg, and 0.9 bpg.

Finals Stats

24.3 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 6.4 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.6 bpg, 3.8 tov, 46.3 FG%, 76.1 FT%, 54.6 TS%

Larry Bird

Regular Season

24.3 ppg on 49.6 FG%, 10.0 rpg, 6.3 apg, 1.7 spg, and 0.8 bpg

Playoffs

23.8 ppg on 47.2 FG%, 10.3 rpg, 6.5 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.9 bpg

Finals

23.1 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 6.0 apg, 2.0 spg, 0.8 bpg, 2.9 tov, 45.6 FG%, 87.2 FT%, 53.4 TS%

http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/b/larry_bird_vs_lebron_james.htm


Totals Stats (Regular Season)

Total Points
Larry Bird 21,791
LeBron James 24,481

Total Rebounds
Larry Bird 8,974
LeBron James 6,638

Total Assists
Larry Bird 5,695
LeBron James 6,152

Total Steals
Larry Bird 1,556
LeBron James 1,552

Total Blocks
Larry Bird 755
LeBron James 710

Total Games
Larry Bird 897
LeBron James 891

Totals Stats (Playoffs)

Total Points
Larry Bird 3,897
LeBron James 4,419

Total Rebounds
Larry Bird 1,683
LeBron James 1,332

Total Assists
Larry Bird 1,062
LeBron James 1,019

Total Steals
Larry Bird 296
LeBron James 273

Total Blocks
Larry Bird 145
LeBron James 139

Total Games
Larry Bird 164
LeBron James 158

This says it all. They are close even right now. By the time LeBron retires it won't be a real debate--unless you go with the "eye test" or "I just think he was better" route. In terms of resume and accomplishments LeBron will blow Bird out the water career for career. Bird and Magic have the worst longevity of anyone in the top 10 all-time and it shortens their resumes.

[305Baller]

knee-jerk? Oh hell nah... Bird scored 10+ pts in the 4th and finished it with an eyes closed game winner in every competitive game there was.

http://i.gyazo.com/9e8eb8f29bd7059987fa2f272f5eef98.png

Bird just went from 7 to top 5 in the last 6 months :applause:

He really been playing outta his mind these last few months..

He moved up one spot. Nice comprehension.

[ArbitraryWater]

He moved up one spot. Nice comprehension.

You just said LeBron is out of the top 5 and went ahead to list:
"
Kareem
Duncan
Bird
Jordan
Magic"

[305Baller]

This says it all. They are close even right now. By the time LeBron retires it won't be a real debate--unless you go with the "eye test" or "I just think he was better" route. In terms of resume and accomplishments LeBron will blow Bird out the water career for career. Bird and Magic have the worst longevity of anyone in the top 10 all-time and it shortens their resumes.

Bird beats him in everything but points. And thats because his teams were stacked.

[305Baller]

You just said LeBron is out of the top 5 and went ahead to list:
"
Kareem
Duncan
Bird
Jordan
Magic"

These are two types of lists... this list is obviously a position-based list. You really think Id have Jordan 4th? How can you not comprehend this?

[ArbitraryWater]

These are two types of lists... this list is obviously a position-based list. You really think Id have Jordan 4th? How can you not comprehend this?

How about this genius........ THEY'RE NOT IN ORDER?!

Ever think about that one? This mofo acting like it was obvious.. continue your knee-jerk, stick to Bird for the cute stories and "eye test". LeBron's a flat out more dominant player on both ends.

[305Baller]

How about this genius........ THEY'RE NOT IN ORDER?!

Ever think about that one? This mofo acting like it was obvious.. continue your knee-jerk, stick to Bird for the cute stories and "eye test". LeBron's a flat out more dominant player on both ends.

Okay then, my fault I should have listed the positions and made it more obvious. My fault.

[305Baller]

How about this genius........ THEY'RE NOT IN ORDER?!

Ever think about that one? This mofo acting like it was obvious.. continue your knee-jerk, stick to Bird for the cute stories and "eye test". LeBron's a flat out more dominant player on both ends.

Is he really more dominant though? Bird has him beat in everything except points if you look at the stats.

[ArbitraryWater]

Is he really more dominant though? Bird has him beat in everything except points if you look at the stats.

Dude, which "stats" are you looking at?

Bird has him beat in rebounds and thats it... LeBron's the better scorer, similar passer/playmaker (more APG), the far better defender, and has him beat in virtually every advanced statistic there is... what in the blue world are you talking about?

[305Baller]

Dude, which "stats" are you looking at?

Bird has him beat in rebounds and thats it... LeBron's the better scorer, similar passer/playmaker (more APG), the far better defender, and has him beat in virtually every advanced statistic there is... what in the blue world are you talking about?

This is a pretty even barometer:

Totals Stats (Playoffs)

Total Points
Larry Bird 3,897
LeBron James 4,419

Total Rebounds
Larry Bird 1,683
LeBron James 1,332

Total Assists
Larry Bird 1,062
LeBron James 1,019

Total Steals
Larry Bird 296
LeBron James 273

Total Blocks
Larry Bird 145
LeBron James 139

Total Games
Larry Bird 164
LeBron James 158

[ArbitraryWater]

This is a pretty even barometer:

Totals Stats (Playoffs)

Total Points
Larry Bird 3,897
LeBron James 4,419

Total Rebounds
Larry Bird 1,683
LeBron James 1,332

Total Assists
Larry Bird 1,062
LeBron James 1,019

Total Steals
Larry Bird 296
LeBron James 273

Total Blocks
Larry Bird 145
LeBron James 139

Total Games
Larry Bird 164
LeBron James 158

Bird has played 6 more games...

so if you want to be completely dull and and flat...

Per game averages:

Bird: 24/10/6.5 on 47% with decent defense
LeBron: 28/8/6.4 on 48% with great defense

Is this done now? Stick to the cute stories with Bird.. otherwise he doesn't have an argument. The defense just totally shifts the comparison towards LeBron.

If you want more... I wrote a big ass text (even article) on why LeBron is > Bird.

[pauk]

Larry Bird shot up to 95% from the line.... and Lebron is a 71% FT shooter atm, he is not good from there, he doesnt "choke" from the line in a game, thats just simply his FT% accuracy at work....

For a 70% shooter:

7 of 10 in a game is perfectly normal/good...

8-9-10 of 10 in a game is being on fire...

3-5 of 10 in a game is a bad day at the FT line which can happen often for a 70% shooter, just like last night....

70% from the line means just alot of inconsistency from game to game, a player will shoot 10 of 10 one game and 4 of 10 the next.... which is 70% in 2 games....

For a 90%+ shooter:

9-10 of 10 in a game is perfectly normal/good...

20 of 20 in a game is being on fire....

7 of 10 in a game is having a very bad day..... and that is Lebrons FT% accuracy...

Lebron going 3 of 10 is equivalent of Bird going 7 of 10......

There is at least 1000 players you need to have over Lebron in that case....

Hell, why not even me considering i shoot minimum 80% from the FT line....

[305Baller]

Bird has played 6 more games...

so if you want to be completely dull and and flat...

Per game averages:

Bird: 24/10/6.5 on 47% with decent defense
LeBron: 28/8/6.4 on 48% with great defense

Is this done now? Stick to the cute stories with Bird.. otherwise he doesn't have an argument. The defense just totally shifts the comparison towards LeBron.

If you want more... I wrote a big ass text (even article) on why LeBron is > Bird.

Defense is a good point. But I will take an assasin clutch instinct over good defense. You can always get a defensive specialist.

[Quickening]

Defense is a good point. But I will take an assasin clutch instinct over good defense. You can always get a defensive specialist.

Where are the stats showing that Bird was far more clutch than Lebron?

[ShawkFactory]

How about this genius........ THEY'RE NOT IN ORDER?!

Ever think about that one? This mofo acting like it was obvious.. continue your knee-jerk, stick to Bird for the cute stories and "eye test". LeBron's a flat out more dominant player on both ends.
This is such an elementary way of looking at things, which doesn't surprise me given that you almost certainly didn't watch Bird play.

Look at the usage % between Bird and Bron. Bird did almost as much statistically with the ball in his hands far less.

But its the things that don't show up on the stat sheet that Bird really separates himself. Outlet passes, instincts, clutch play, etc.

This is not to say "its Bird and not close". Lebron is certainly the more impactful defensive player, and when he's playing loose he dominates games from an all-around standpoint unmatched by very few ever. BUT, he hasn't done enough to warrant being above Bird on GOAT lists. Mainly because of his mentality.

If he wins another ring and performs admirably while doing so then we can have an actual neck-and-neck debate.

[305Baller]

Where are the stats showing that Bird was far more clutch than Lebron?

That's a good question. Stats are needed.

[ArbitraryWater]

Defense is a good point. But I will take an assasin clutch instinct over good defense. You can always get a defensive specialist.

Let's start with the simple Career Statistics.

Larry Bird: 13 Seasons from 1979-1992
LeBron James: 11 Seasons from 2003-2014

Regular Season:

Larry Bird: 24/10/6/2/1 on 50%

LeBron James: 28/7/7/2/1 on 49%

Post-season:

Larry Bird: 24/10/7/2/1 on 47%

LeBron James: 28/9/7/2/1 on 47%

The difference in efficiency is slim, based on LeBron's current curve, it's going up drastically and will be passed Bird in 2015, while in the Playoffs it's already tied.

Larry suffered a back injury, which basically made his already short 13 year career, a 9 year career (Bird after 1988 never was the same).

A big factor is Playoff greatness.

Let's go through their statistics and runs in detail.

Larry Bird Year by Year:

Just look at Bird's long list of playoff failures for his entire career while not really being able to weigh them out with successes.
More often that not overachieved and not underachieved like Bird:

1980: Averaged a 47 FG% in the postseason. In game 5 vs. the Sixers Bird shoots 5-19 with just 12 points and the Celtics lose while his matchup Erving averages 25 PPG.
Bird loses in 5 games depsite HCA. Celtics won 61 games in the regular season. (BTW It should be noted that unlike the Cavaliers, the Celtics definitely didn't over-achieve or were simply a regular season team, they were this good.)
A PER of 18.3.

1981: Averaged a 47 FG% in the postseason.
Plays a bad finals series where he averaged just 15 PPG on 42%. Back to back 8 point games, horrid.

1982: Averages an emberassing 18 PPG on 42%. 5 point drop off.
He averaged a pedestrian 18 PPG against the Sixers and 17 PPG in the final 2 games of the series.
Bird loses with HCA AGAIN. The Celtics won 63 games and had the #1 SRS in the league.
A 17.9 PER in the postseason.

1983: Averaged 20 PPG on 42%. Flop.
Bird and the Celtics get swept by the Bucks. Again, can easily be blamed on Bird for more subpar play.
Bird loses with HCA. This time the Celtics won 56 games and had the #2 SRS in the league.
Bird plays awful again. His PPG average drops in the playoffs.
Bird missed a game in the series but that game happened to be the closest one (Celtics lose by 4). In the 3 other games, the Celtics lose by 14.3 PPG with Bird on the court.

1984: Great playoffs.
Averaged 27-14-4 in the Finals and shot the ball at 52%.
First great playoff of his career. Celtics win the title over the Lakers. Bird FMVP.

1985: Celtics make the finals.
Bird averaged 26/9/6 on only 46% shooting. All statistics dropped.
Bird plays even worse in the finals as he averages another poor 24/9/5 on an inefficient 45%.
Celtics won 63 games and yet again lost with HCA.
The first time in Celtics history they lose the Finals with HCA.

1986: Great playoffs. His best year ever. Wins the title. 26/9/8 on 52% overall in the post-season and an amazing finals consisting of 24/10/10 on 48%.

1987: Great until the Finals. 28/10/8 through 3 Rounds but his Averages dropped to 27/10/7 after the Finals. In which he only shot 45%.
In game 6, Bird scored just 16 points on 6-16 (.375) shooting.
In the final 3 games of this series, Bird averaged just 20 PPG on .377 shooting* with 3.7 TOV.
The first time in Bird's career he's played without HCA and his team still loses.

1988: Averages 25/8/7 on 45%.
Bird shoots an awful 40-114 (.351) against the Pistons.
Has a mediocre 20.2 PER in the playoffs.
Lost with HCA while the Celtics had the #1 SRS in the league-

1989: Injured doesn't play in the postseason.

1990: Bird shoots 44% and has 3.6 TOV as the Celtics once again lose with HCA, in the 1st Round.

1991: In the first round, his team barely escapes the 41 win Pacers in 5.
41 FG% and a 15.8 PER in the playoffs. Against the Pistons Bird averages 13.4 PPG on 38%.
56 win team played with you guessed it HCA and loses with it.

1992: DNP 1st Round as the Celtics SWEEP the Pacers without him.
In round 2, his team goes 7 against the Cavs, Bird plays in 4 games and his team was 1-3 in those games. Averages a pathetic 11.3 PPG and 4.5 Reb which are 8.4 PPG and 5.2 Reb down from his regular season average. Shooting 50% and has a 16.4 PER.

In 12 Years, you get 5 Runs of under 45% and 9 runs of under 48%.

Bird amongst all the All-Time Greats, underachieved the most, loosing with HCA 7 times!
Context won't change the failures.

This guy is supposed to be over LeBron James?

The one who overachieved greatly?

LeBron James at 22 years of age took a team of Zydrunas Illgauskas, Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden and Sasha Pavlovic to the NBA Finals.

LeBron's 2nd Option, Larry Hughes, who attempted the 2nd most FG's, had a FG of 34.7%!
That's what he had to live with on Offense.

With Bird you get a nice 4 year run that had 4 straight finals appearances from 1984-1987 but outside of that, from 1980-1983 20 PPG on 40% and from 1988-1992 21 PPG on 44%.
Time spans in which numerous teammates had a higher PER, WS/48 TS% Numbers.

In 12 years, 7 losses with HCA.
Basically out of Bird's 13 year career, you have 1 injury season and 3 non-descript postseasons at the end of his plus some playoff disappointments early in his career.

Bird gave you 3 great runs and one good run.

LeBron James who has appeared in 8 Playoff runs, already stands at 5 great runs!

2006: Averaged 30/8/6 on 48%! Now that's a 3rd year run huh.
Beats the favored Wizards in the 1st Round in 6, while averaging 36 PPG! Jordan-esque.
In the meantime proceeding to hit 2 game winners and being 2 points shy of back to back 40 point games.
In the ECSF loses in 7 against the current EC Champions in the Detroit Pistons.
LeBron's only game 7 ever of scoring under 30 points, a putrid 27...
Yes, LeBron James is easily one of the greatest elimination game and game 7 performers ever, if not the greatest.

2007: Averaged 25/8/8 on 42%. Weaker statistics than in the other Runs, but that's not what this run was about. The Finals against the HEAVILY favored Spurs took his averages down.
What made this Run special, let me say it again, taking a* team of Illgauskas/Hughes/Gooden/Pavlovic to the FINALS.
In the ECF, LeBron averaged 26/9/9 on 45% to beat the Detroit Pistons, while having one of the top 5 greatest playoff performances ever in a game 5, a 2 OT win on the road.
Scoring 48 points, the team's last 25 points and 29 of the last 30. Legendary stuff.

2009: Averaged 35-9-7 on 51%. IMO, LeBron's best Playoff Run ever.
Led the Cavaliers to 67 wins and the 1st Spot in the NBA, with an epic regular season of 28/8/7 with DPOY Defense.
Cavaliers without him on the floor were last in team DRtg, with him on the floor they were first. Impact&Value defined at it's best.
LeBron James swept the first 2 Series' and then went out in the ECF in a series for the ages.
LeBron put up 39/8/8 on 49%! Let's not forget to mention the elite defense.

LeBron had a memorable game winning 3 point buzzer beater, a triple double and three 40+ point games.
It's a shame his "sidekick", Mo Williams went cold and cost them the Playoffs, hitting 37% of his shots... still hurts.

2010: Averaged 29/9/8 on 50%.
Again, pure class.
In 11 Games, LeBron had 5 games of 35+ points, ALL on 50 FG%, in fact 3 of those came at 60+%! 2 Triple doubles, and fell short in two others by 2 assists and 1 rebound/2 assists.
Man triple doubles, triple doubles while putting up a load of points.
This time Williams shot it at 40 FG%.
Can't really do much to change your teams outcome when the production of the 2nd best is so little, while playing against 4 HoF's. Nobody else scored 14 PPG, and a couple of bad coaching mistakes by Mike Brown.

2012: Averaged 30/10/6 on 50%.
Not much to say here, still very much in our memories. Djoker also made an article on it potentially being the GOAT Playoffs Run.
Nonetheless, 2 all time performances delivered that are burned into our minds.

ECSF Game 4 against the Pacers.
Down 1-2, you hear Journalists talk about the Heat's downfall, Writers about the ending of the Big 3, and Fans talk about LeBron's legacy ruined... LeBron annihilates the Pacers IN Indiane with 40 Points, 18 Rebounds and 9 Assists... Wade awakens, and the Heat move on winning 4-2.
And, he topped that game in the next round. Game 6 ECF down 2-3 against the Celtics, pretty much the same pre game talk all over, just more overwhelming, more devastating.
On the brink of elimination, James destructs the Celtics, IN Boston, with 45 Points, 15 Rebounds and 5 Assists... both of these games/statlines have happened the last time in the 1960's.

Game 4 against the Pacers pretty much Top 20 Playoffs performance all time, while the Game 6 against the Celtics is probably Top 5 and IMO GOAT. The Statistics alone don't display the IMMENSE pressure. LeBron stopped looking to score after a couple of minutes in the 4th, otherwise 50-60 Points were in the round of possibility.

2013: Averaged 26/8/7 on 49%.
Locked his 2nd Title&Finals MVP with a 37 Point Finals Game 7.
IMO LeBron's Defense topped his from the previous year in the Playoffs, not by a big margin but still.

*cont

[ArbitraryWater]

*cont

Bird had a supporting cast that was able to give him his first championship on a silverplate.
Playing with arguably the greatest frontcourt ever helps.

Bird's best team probably sits in most peoples top 5 in terms of talent.

I always hear people mention the Celtics Big 3 and McHale/Parish.
BUT... let's not forget a 5 time all-star, yearly defensive all NBA team, and Finals MVP Dennis Johnson.

As you see, Bird won a couple of series while shooting poorly, the 1981 Finals quickly come to mind.

LeBron never had that luxury throughout his career.
0 series wins with under 42% shooting. As rare as that happened opposed to Bird.
Bird for example shot under 42% and won in the 1981 Finals, 1983 vs Hawks, etc. teammates bailing you out.

LeBron carried a poor Cavaliers team to two consecutive 60+ win seasons and two Nr.1 Records in the League in '09 and '10.
The next year without him, the Cavaliers finish with the 2nd worst record in the league, have a 42 game drop off and the record for most consecutive losses in NBA History at 26.

Just to put to bed the named parts where Bird has an edge, where team play takes a significant role.
Well, this is what LeBron had to work with for 7 years. When the 2nd best player and your supposed sidekick is Mo Williams, a literally average player who after LeBron became a 3rd string PG, you can't get far.

So Larry Bird played from 1979-1992, 13 Years.
This isn't supposed to involve hypotheticals, but it's pretty obvious LeBron will easily surpass that. Longer longevity, and peak vs peak they're close, but I got LeBron.
Especially as his prime held on much longer too.

Bird basically had an 8 year long career, after his back Injury he was never the same.

Pace Factor:
Bird's stats are slightly altered against LeBron's from playing in the 1980's.

Until 1989 the Pace was over 100+ every year and on average around 101 Possessions per game.

NOW, LeBron in his first 10 years has been playing on average in an Era of 91 Possessions per game!

Just do simple math and put LeBron at the 80's pace and he's on the cusp of averaging a 29/8/8

To your points of Competition and Individually:

Bird didn't really have "Kareem and Jordan", when Bird hit his peak Kareem was a shell of himself while when Jordan hit his peak, Bird was done. That's really undeniable.
I could easily say LeBron had Durant, Dirk and Duncan. 2 of those Top 20 all time, one other will most certainly be there one day.

While the Eastern Conferences during LeBron's days are the weaker conference, it definitely has the superior DEFENSIVE teams.
In the 2000's with the Pistons, Celtics and Magic, while in the 2010's with the Bulls and Pacers, so far.


Statistics through 10 Years:
2003-2013 LeBron James: 27.6 PPG 7.3 RPG 6.9 APG 1.7 SPG 0.9 BPG
1979-1989 Larry Bird: 25.0 PPG 10.2 RPG 6.1 APG 1.8 SPG 0.8 BPG
Advanced Statistics:

LeBron James: 27.7 PER, .578 TS%, .526 eFG%, 10.7 REB%, 34.1 AST%, 2.3 STL%, 1.6 BLK%, 31.6 USG%, .242 WS/48
Larry Bird: 23.5 PER, .564 TS%, .514 eFG%, 14.5 REB%, 24.7 AST%, 2.2 STL%, 1.2 BLK%, 26.5 USG%, .203 WS/48

James excells all over but on Rebounds. If needed, I will explain all of these in my next post.

Accolades:

LeBron James: 2004 Rookie of the Year, 9x All-Star, 9x All-NBA, 5x All-Defense, 1x Scoring Champion, 4x MVP, 2x Finals MVP, 2x NBA Champion
Larry Bird: 1980 Rookie of the Year, 9x All-Star, 9x All-NBA, 3x All-Defense, 3x MVP, 2x Finals MVP, 3x NBA Champion

Larry holds the edge on LeBron in Championships with 1 more, 3 > 2.

Now, most likely that will be tied as well after this season, with MORE FMVP's for LBJ.

Why? Well like I said, everybody seems to mention LeBron's 2011 Finals as flack on his Resume and reason he can't be put over this or that guy, but forget to mention that Bird layed a huge egg in the 1981 Finals.

LeBron is the better scorer, playmaker and defender. Bird takes rebounding. That's about it.
Young Bird was good at playing the passing lanes, other than that nothing else but an average defender.

LeBron has developed at an elite post game, low post game and has become a great shooter.
The department Bird takes most pride in.

Clutch?

The Area LeBron is severely underrated in.

Bird's statistics aren't available, but:
In the playoffs last 24 seconds GW and GT Shots:
LeBron James: 7-16 = 44%.

For Comparison, Jordan is 9-18 = 50% and Kobe is 7-29 = 24%.

Would guess Bird to be around the 40% Mark as well.


In fact, right now we are in the midst of LeBron surpassing Larry Bird. If we would do this at the end of this season, it would already be to late for the Bird supporters, because it would be even clearer.

LeBron James, this season, is about to surpass Larry Bird in Career Points and Career Assists, in less games and shots.

Advantage LeBron as a Scorer.

LeBron James is by far the better defender.
Now, Bird doesn't get enough praise for his Defense, but clearly he's not even in LeBron's Ballpark in that side of the court.

This is actually one of the BIGGEST Factors for this Debate:

When LeBron James played in Cleveland, he got FAR more traps, double and triple teams than Bird ever got. Reminiscent of what young MJ had to deal with.
The Opponents couldn't/didn't respect any of LeBron's teammates offensively, for a reason.
Bird took over a game here and there, and then here again, but he always had more room to work with and less defensive attention on him.

The Win Shares quantifies a player's contribution to team wins.


LeBron always had to pull more weight for his team than Bird did for the Celtics.

In the Playoffs LeBron averaged .234 WS to Bird's .173!
LeBron's WS stayed relatively the same, Bird's dropped off.

LeBron WS:
2013 Playoffs: .260
2012 Playoffs: .284
2009 Playoffs: .399 (!)
2010 Playoffs: .242

Larry's 2 Best:
1986 Playoffs: .263
1984 Playoffs: 23.6

Win Shares is a highly significant metric.
It takes into account the Players statistics, but also penalizes him for his negative contributions while accounting the contributions of the teammates.
The best metric available when it comes to finding out the Players contributions to the goal of basketball, which is, winning.

As detailed as it get's, LeBron just keeps topping Larry.
On top, those were the only .20+ WS Playoff Runs Bird EVER had!

This also shows Bird had far better support from his teammates.
Let's not discredit the importance of players like Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Dennis Johnson, Danny Ainge, etc...

Consider the teams, and the ring counting makes no sense anymore.
Seing how LeBron will most probably even EQUAL Bird in that category, puts this even further out of reach.

Not a flawless statistic, none is, but a direct reflection of LeBron's play&supporting cast.
At this point it should be obvious that LeBron's "help" in Cleveland was a joke, especially compared to Bird's.

4 League MVP's, 2 Finals MVP's along with All-Around Dominance on both sides.

I feel Durability is big factor too, if avoiding Injuries, the Team can get the maximum/most games out of you. Possible played games:

Larry Bird: 897-1066(84%)

Lebron James: 788-827(95.3%)

As expected, not close.

These two are one of the most well-rounded and versatile offensive players.
Bird was the better perimeter shooter and rebounder, while LeBron the better scorer, playmaker and defender.
IQ and Passing is as close AND GREAT as it gets.
Let's appreciate their greatness.

However, at the end of the day, take Bird if you want the cute stories, but LeBron is a flat out better baller on both ends of the court.

LeBron James is the more effective, dominant and greater offensive and defensive player, on top a better playoffs performer.

Bird's Celtic's Win Percentages and his rookie season are nice, but won't change a lick.

PS: I wrote this a while ago.. writing is pretty poor imo. LeBron's accolades not updated.

[Lebron23]

Great posts by Arbitrary Water

[305Baller]

Thanks for sharing. Will read and analyze.

[pauk]

Defense is a good point. But I will take an assasin clutch instinct over good defense. You can always get a defensive specialist.

Lebron has hit many more gamewinners and averaged much more 4th quarter/clutch points both in regular season & playoffs...... then there is alot of clutch gamesaving plays he made Bird couldnt do equally well also (defense)....

Bird and literally any other pure shooter in NBA history are more "assassin clutch" than Lebron in ONLY specific situations that takes advantage of their pure shooting ability...... like from the FT line and ofcourse a perimeter Jumpshot....

I would take very many players over Lebron (or Jordan or Kobe and so on and so on) to seal the game from the FT line.... accuracy is accuracy...... very simple....

[Roundball_Rock]

Bird beats him in everything but points. And thats because his teams were stacked.

They are similar in accolades, i.e. 4 MVP's to 3 for Bird and team success. Both made 5 Finals, one won 3x and the other 2x. The thing is they are both close now. LeBron has 4-5 quality seasons left and maybe a few more all-star caliber seasons after that left like Duncan in his late 30's. This won't be a debate when LeBron retires. He will have much better longevity and more individual success and presumably also more team success.

[pauk]

I am a huge fan of Lebrons game but i have always cringed & whined about his FT shooting, especially when i know i myself am a 90% FT shooter.... he never was a good FT shooter, although he got close one time (78% yay)....

So i really dont find that part of Lebrons game impressive at all, thats his only weakness....

Lebron is this amazingly perfect complete player in combination of skills/size/athleticism, absolutely perfect...... but the moment he steps at the FT line i go "Oh no", especially when its clutch time because then that 30% chance for a brick can hurt even more.... you see Lebron shoot anything over 7 of 10 in a game from the line, be happy....

[305Baller]

Looks like there are not many Bird defenders out there. LeBron support out in full force.

Bird is legendary for his clutch shooting... but theres not much stats to show for it.

I really have nothing else to add. I didnt see much Bird, Ive seen a lot of LeBron.

[ILLsmak]

For a while I was propping up LeBron as the greatest small forward of all-time, and he may be the most physically dominant three of all time, but after watching this last game (Cavs vs Rockets) where Bron chokes the last two free-throws it really shows the difference between Larry Bird and James.

Bird was an assassin, LeBron is a great force but just not as good a basketball player.

There's just no way Bird chokes those free throws, right?

LeBron is out of my top 5:

Kareem
Duncan
Bird
Jordan
Magic

awesome.

-Smak

[Beastmode88]

you think lebron would win rings vs show time? :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Megabox!]

For a while I was propping up LeBron as the greatest small forward of all-time, and he may be the most physically dominant three of all time, but after watching this last game (Cavs vs Rockets) where Bron chokes the last two free-throws it really shows the difference between Larry Bird and James.

Bird was an assassin, LeBron is a great force but just not as good a basketball player.

There's just no way Bird chokes those free throws, right?

LeBron is out of my top 5:

Kareem
Duncan
Bird
Jordan
Magic
All because he missed 2 f*cking free throws at the end of a regular season game? :facepalm

[Prime_Shaq]

Larry Bird > LeBron James
For the time being. LeBron definitely has a chance to pass him, but not just yet. Larry Bird was one cold blooded assassin, a walking triple double with 50/40/90 potential. A shame his career was cut short by injuries, or else he would have a legit discussion for GOAT.

[jlip]

For a while I was propping up LeBron as the greatest small forward of all-time, and he may be the most physically dominant three of all time, but after watching this last game (Cavs vs Rockets) where Bron chokes the last two free-throws it really shows the difference between Larry Bird and James.


There's just no way Bird chokes those free throws, right?



Lebron didn't choke just the last two free throws. He was 3-11 from the line. He didn't wait until the final seconds to miss free throws. He missed them the entire game. While that's not particularly any better, it's not as if "the moment" shook him. He was horrible the entire game.

But yes, you are correct. One of the primary differences between Bird and Lebron is Bird was a far better shooter from everywhere outside the paint than Lebron, especially the free throw line. Bird actually led the league in ft% many times. Lebron is an average ft shooter at best. I would trust Bird over Lebron and 99% of all other NBA players in history at the ft line with the game on the line.

[Roundball_Rock]

you think lebron would win rings vs show time? :roll: :roll: :roll:

With McHale, Parish, and DJ? Yes.

[J Shuttlesworth]

305baller are you on crack? Really changing your all time ranking based on a regular season game? Lebron has been pretty damn reliable at the free throw line when it matters the most.

[tpols]

Lebron didn't choke just the last two free throws. He was 3-11 from the line. He didn't wait until the final seconds to miss free throws. He missed them the entire game. While that's not particularly any better, it's not as if "the moment" shook him. He was horrible the entire game.

But yes, you are correct. One of the primary differences between Bird and Lebron is Bird was a far better shooter from everywhere outside the paint than Lebron, especially the free throw line. Bird actually led the league in ft% many times. Lebron is an average ft shooter at best. I would trust Bird over Lebron and 99% of all other NBA players in history at the ft line with the game on the line.

He wasn't bad on FTs to start the game.. it was in the third quarter after the Beverly and harden scuffles that he started to brick damn near every ft. Missed 4 in a row I believe at one point in the third and 2 in a row to choke the game away.

So it most definitely was the circumstances.. the confrontations and physical play that threw him off his game mentally.

The refs last night were letting them play. They didn't make a single foul call til 5 or 6 minutes in.. we all saw harden and lebron get locked up in arms at the end of the game with a no call.. So the refs probably had a long discussion that they weren't going to fall for any flopping before the game.

Difference between bird and bran is bird embraces contact and likes it chippy and competitive.. he would never get shook.

[NumberSix]

For a while I was propping up LeBron as the greatest small forward of all-time, and he may be the most physically dominant three of all time, but after watching this last game (Cavs vs Rockets) where Bron chokes the last two free-throws it really shows the difference between Larry Bird and James.

Bird was an assassin, LeBron is a great force but just not as good a basketball player.

There's just no way Bird chokes those free throws, right?

LeBron is out of my top 5:

Kareem
Duncan
Bird
Jordan
Magic
I wouldn't actually say LeBron "choked" those free throws. The guy was bad at the line all night. It happens. It's not like he was hitting his free throws all night then clanked them at the end of the game when it mattered.

[NumberSix]

He wasn't bad on FTs to start the game.. it was in the third quarter after the Beverly and harden scuffles that he started to brick damn near every ft. Missed 4 in a row I believe at one point in the third and 2 in a row to choke the game away.

So it most definitely was the circumstances.. the confrontations and physical play that threw him off his game mentally.

The refs last night were letting them play. They didn't make a single foul call til 5 or 6 minutes in.. we all saw harden and lebron get locked up in arms at the end of the game with a no call.. So the refs probably had a long discussion that they weren't going to fall for any flopping before the game.

Difference between bird and bran is bird embraces contact and likes it chippy and competitive.. he would never get shook.
He didn't have any free throws in the first half, so no. He didn't miss any free throws at the start of the game.

[tpols]

He didn't have any free throws in the first half, so no. He didn't miss any free throws at the start of the game.

You're right.. but he made 2/3 of his first FTs in the third, then as the game got really chippy especially with the harden kick to the balls he started missing everything. Harden got a flagrant called on him.. lebron went to the line and bricked both FTs.

He took the kick to the balls and starts backing up, only talking shit once there was a wall between them. While before he stood over and lay on a patrick beverly he outweighs by 60+lbs.. hes a bully. But wont stand up to guys his own size.. aka a coward. Bird was jawing face to face ready to throw down with seven footers like kareem.. and right in his face not this bs hold me back weve seen lebron do a million times, last night, with teletovic, etc.

[ArbitraryWater]

You're right.. but he made 2/3 of his first FTs in the third, then as the game got really chippy especially with the harden kick to the balls he started missing everything. Harden got a flagrant called on him.. lebron went to the line and bricked both FTs.

He took the kick to the balls and starts backing up, only talking shit once there was a wall between them. While before he stood over and lay on a patrick beverly he outweighs by 60+lbs.. hes a bully. But wont stand up to guys his own size.. aka a coward. Bird was jawing face to face ready to throw down with seven footers like kareem.. and right in his face not this bs hold me back weve seen lebron do a million times, last night, with teletovic, etc.

gotta be kidding me :roll:

dat sample size.. ISH at its best

[NumberSix]

You're right.. but he made 2/3 of his first FTs in the third, then as the game got really chippy especially with the harden kick to the balls he started missing everything. Harden got a flagrant called on him.. lebron went to the line and bricked both FTs.

He took the kick to the balls and starts backing up, only talking shit once there was a wall between them. While before he stood over and lay on a patrick beverly he outweighs by 60+lbs.. hes a bully. But wont stand up to guys his own size.. aka a coward. Bird was jawing face to face ready to throw down with seven footers like kareem.. and right in his face not this bs hold me back weve seen lebron do a million times, last night, with teletovic, etc.
So your complaint is that LeBron is too civilized? You think he should have immediately assaulted harden? :wtf:

[tpols]

So your complaint is that LeBron is too civilized? You think he should have immediately assaulted harden? :wtf:

it has nothing to do with being civilized. :rolleyes:

Im just saying.. if youre going to be a tough guy.. do it in the guys face. Dont do it with a wall between you. Its pathetic. Lebron could take some notes out of larrys book.. bird wasnt just throwing punches at everyone every game but when he talked he didnt do it walking away. I think there was a quote.. "Ive never seen Bird take a step backwards on a basketball court.." because he never backed down.. no flopping posturing fake bs. Its not like bird was some maniac who 'assaulted' everybody.. he just stood his ground and would let you know.

[SHAQisGOAT]

With McHale, Parish, and DJ? Yes.

[B]You don't know what you're talking about, as usual...

Prime/healthy Lebron couldn't get shit done against Dirk, J Terry, old Kidd, Tyson Chandler, Barea and them... While one of his teammates (Wade) was having just a great series, good enough to "cover" two of Bird's best teammates' 1984 Finals performances. Even Bosh was playing pretty well.

Combined, I'd take Dwyane+Bosh's 2011 Finals over DJ+Parish+McHale's 1984 Finals (from having watched both too)...
And, again, that Mavs squad couldn't really **** with the Showtime Lakers, not even. DON'T neglect stuff like that, competition means plenty too.

And Bird with the Celtics most of the time had an extremely tough road to the Finals, playing in probably the GOAT conference... LBJ most of the time is on a cake-walk, lmfao.

Bird willed the C's over the Lakers in those 1984 Finals...
That's against a team with Kareem, Magic, Worthy, McAdoo, Cooper, Scott, RAmbis, Wilkes, etc!!!
With the way both teams were playing, looking at all the players, most people expected LA to win, they were better on paper too. Boston pulled through in 7 games, though.

^Larry did everything that was necessary for them in order to win; they needed scoring he was getting big buckets, they needed physicality and rebounding he was grabbing major boards and leaving it all on the court, they needed hustle he was out there putting his body on the line, they put Coop on him so he kills him from the inside and on the boards, team D was important he was everywhere on that end...

Dude was even calling his teammates ******* because they weren't up to par, lighting a fire under them for the next game.

Shit, how about the 'Heat Game'? 97

[Wade's Rings]

@ArbitraryWater Great Posts Earlier comparing Bron & Bird. My only problem is that you don't consider the Difficulty of the Conferences and Competition/Defense faced.

For example, you don't consider how Weak the 2007 East was.

Bird has never won a series without HomeCourt Advantage knock on his legacy.

[Roundball_Rock]

So your argument is because LeBron lost a series to Dallas in 11', that he would never win at any point in the 80's with McHale, Parish, DJ? This is pure speculation but your logic is questionable at best.

Isiah Thomas won rings during the 1988-89 and 1989-90 seasons and made the Finals in 88'. He should have in 87' too but lost narrowly to the Celtics in the ECF. So a lesser player with a lesser "cast" around him than the LeBron/McHale/Parish/DJ did in fact succeed in that era. Teams like the Bucks and Mavericks were contenders in the 80's without any player close to LeBron's level--and without McHale/Parish/DJ. Yet a top 5 all-time caliber player would never win with 3 other HOF players?

The issue is not the 11' Finals or the 84' Finals but rather whether LeBron, with the Celtics, could win in that era.

[305Baller]

Bird committee on the comeback trail.

http://media.giphy.com/media/ftXvsSyRzKXXG/giphy.gif

[Blue&Orange]

Bird is overrated, his assists were basically throwing the ball to some guy in the corner and hope he made the bucket, over and over again.

He was lucky that back then all people did was stand behind the 3 point line.

[Height Freak]

Bird is overrated, his assists were basically throwing the ball to some guy in the corner and hope he made the bucket, over and over again.

He was lucky that back then all people did was stand behind the 3 point line.

lucky indeed (over and over again.). He couldn't dish...

http://33.media.tumblr.com/404026b68c95065eeb662b854b98234e/tumblr_mu0bjnB9Rn1sdydefo1_400.gif

http://38.media.tumblr.com/7ce90e963834bbb792c11ab26af0eed1/tumblr_nj08fwL4901sdydefo1_400.gif

http://38.media.tumblr.com/6b0bd0f9d908e0522787da1feff3f5cb/tumblr_niwlfxkF9s1sdydefo1_500.gif

http://33.media.tumblr.com/2b8f11701d7f692a1b6575d224971ead/tumblr_mxlxgjcBZP1sdydefo1_400.gif

http://38.media.tumblr.com/fc02284a6d8259dbf030b34afe36b56e/tumblr_mu0gvrVtjJ1sdydefo1_400.gif

http://33.media.tumblr.com/e9f41e3e5b76a051cf43da1dd5b60774/tumblr_mu0flh1ZRM1sdydefo1_400.gif

http://33.media.tumblr.com/aed07c9c862875010c74555cebc38f07/tumblr_mu0sfok5jo1sdydefo1_400.gif

[2010splash]

I'll admit I spit my drink out laughing after reading the title. Bird was a slow, fat, unathletic, uncoordinated standstill jump shooter with no abilities at all in the transition game, post and especially on defense. His value was pretty much purely as a shooter and even there I wouldn't say he was better than LeBron except for as a FT shooter and 3-PT shooter.

LeBron destroys Bird in transition, attacking the rim, finishing, post play, clutchness, rebounding, passing, vision and court awareness, playmaking, overall scoring, efficiency, dunking, etc.

Plus LeBron is 1000x better than Bird on defense.

In today's game Bird would be a similar player to Dirk Nowitzki. Perhaps a top 10 player in the game at his peak but nowhere near top 5.

[2010splash]

LeBron is a top 5 player all-time. Bird is probably 10 or 11.

[JT123]

I'll admit I spit my drink out laughing after reading the title. Bird was a slow, fat, unathletic, uncoordinated standstill jump shooter with no abilities at all in the transition game, post and especially on defense. His value was pretty much purely as a shooter and even there I wouldn't say he was better than LeBron except for as a FT shooter and 3-PT shooter.

LeBron destroys Bird in transition, attacking the rim, finishing, post play, clutchness, rebounding, passing, vision and court awareness, playmaking, overall scoring, efficiency, dunking, etc.

Plus LeBron is 1000x better than Bird on defense.

In today's game Bird would be a similar player to Dirk Nowitzki. Perhaps a top 10 player in the game at his peak but nowhere near top 5.
Ether. Bird stans no where to be found. :D

[Blue&Orange]

lucky indeed (over and over again.). He couldn't dish...
I knew the sarcasm would flew over peoples heads.

[Prime_Shaq]

I'll admit I spit my drink out laughing after reading the title. Bird was a slow, fat, unathletic, uncoordinated standstill jump shooter with no abilities at all in the transition game, post and especially on defense. His value was pretty much purely as a shooter and even there I wouldn't say he was better than LeBron except for as a FT shooter and 3-PT shooter.

LeBron destroys Bird in transition, attacking the rim, finishing, post play, clutchness, rebounding, passing, vision and court awareness, playmaking, overall scoring, efficiency, dunking, etc.

Plus LeBron is 1000x better than Bird on defense.

In today's game Bird would be a similar player to Dirk Nowitzki. Perhaps a top 10 player in the game at his peak but nowhere near top 5.
LeBron > Bird in transition, attacking the rim and finishing, efficiency, dunking
Bird > LeBron in shooting, rebounding, CLUTCHNESS
They are even in passing + vision + court awareness

People stay we are stuck in the past. I would say people should respect the past.

[Straight_Ballin]

Bird never did this shit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fSlLdXNzPw

Bron is beta.

[KevinNYC]

I'll admit I spit my drink out laughing after reading the title. Bird was a slow, fat, unathletic, uncoordinated standstill jump shooter with no abilities at all in the transition game, post and especially on defense.
This is buffoonish even by ISH standards. It's obviously you never actually saw Bird play, but have you seen still pictures?

This is fat now?
http://images.complex.com/complex/image/upload/t_article_image/e9ikchh5ijxi0sas5qma.jpg

PS. Larry Bird was one of the best players ever in the transition game.

[KevinNYC]

1981: Averaged a 47 FG% in the postseason.
Plays a bad finals series where he averaged just 15 PPG on 42%. Back to back 8 point games, horrid.

1984: Great playoffs.
Averaged 27-14-4 in the Finals and shot the ball at 52%.
First great playoff of his career.

Some quibbles.

I don't know what you consider great, but very few people have put up the playoff numbers in his rookie year. Only six players have done it since then (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=Y&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=g&c1comp=gt&c1val=9&c2stat=trb_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=11&c3stat=pts_per_g&c3comp=gt&c3val=21&c4stat=ast_per_g&c4comp=gt&c4val=4&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.5&c6stat=&order_by=ws)
The only other person to do that in his rookie year to do it was Kareem.

1981 was even better.

21.9 ppg
14.0 rpg
6.1 apg
2.3 spg
1.0 bpg

This is not a great playoffs? He shot badly in the NBA finals but he also averaged 15.3 rpg and 7.0 apg. Who else put up those numbers? No one since 1981. He was also the one to close out the Sixers and the Rockets

[KungFuJoe]

I'll admit I spit my drink out laughing after reading the title. Bird was a slow, fat, unathletic, uncoordinated standstill jump shooter with no abilities at all in the transition game, post and especially on defense. His value was pretty much purely as a shooter and even there I wouldn't say he was better than LeBron except for as a FT shooter and 3-PT shooter.

LeBron destroys Bird in transition, attacking the rim, finishing, post play, clutchness, rebounding, passing, vision and court awareness, playmaking, overall scoring, efficiency, dunking, etc.

Plus LeBron is 1000x better than Bird on defense.

In today's game Bird would be a similar player to Dirk Nowitzki. Perhaps a top 10 player in the game at his peak but nowhere near top 5.

Worst post ever. Kill yourself.

[KevinNYC]

I knew the sarcasm would flew over peoples heads.

I had to read it twice. At first I thought you were trolling, but the bit about the three point line was telling.

[lilteapot]

OP, you are an idiot. You're putting Bird ahead of Lebron ALL TIME because he missed 2 free throws in a regular season game that means NOTHING :oldlol:

He was out of rhythm the entire night, it happens get over it and stop being such a reactionary fool

[Kvnzhangyay]

Lebron having an argument already shows how good he is :confusedshrug:

At the current moment its a tossup, but when its all said and done almost certainly lebron

[Marchesk]

I'll admit I spit my drink out laughing after reading the title. Bird was a slow, fat, unathletic, uncoordinated standstill jump shooter with no abilities at all in the transition game, post and especially on defense. His value was pretty much purely as a shooter and even there I wouldn't say he was better than LeBron except for as a FT shooter and 3-PT shooter.

LeBron destroys Bird in transition, attacking the rim, finishing, post play, clutchness, rebounding, passing, vision and court awareness, playmaking, overall scoring, efficiency, dunking, etc.

Plus LeBron is 1000x better than Bird on defense.

In today's game Bird would be a similar player to Dirk Nowitzki. Perhaps a top 10 player in the game at his peak but nowhere near top 5.

Explain how Bird averaged more rebounds than Lebron, and more importantly, averaged same number of steals and blocks. How is that possible for such a slow, unathletic white boy? :lol

Also explain why Bird was considered better than Dr J, Dominique, Drexler, Barkley and MJ (in the 80s)? How could such a fat, slow white dude be better than those super athletic freaks?

[Prime_Shaq]

Lebron having an argument already shows how good he is :confusedshrug:

At the current moment its a tossup, but when its all said and done almost certainly lebron
Yes but all these LeBron stans pretending it ain't even close

[Hey Yo]

For a while I was propping up LeBron as the greatest small forward of all-time, and he may be the most physically dominant three of all time, but after watching this last game (Cavs vs Rockets) where Bron chokes the last two free-throws it really shows the difference between Larry Bird and James.

Bird was an assassin, LeBron is a great force but just not as good a basketball player.

There's just no way Bird chokes those free throws, right?

LeBron is out of my top 5:

Kareem
Duncan
Bird
Jordan
Magic
you'd have a point if James wasn't shooting poorly from the FTL all game.

If he was 12-12 before that.......it's a choke.

[305Baller]

you'd have a point if James wasn't shooting poorly from the FTL all game.

If he was 12-12 before that.......it's a choke.

But would Shaq have made them? I think so.

[Round Mound]

[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT][B]You don't know what you're talking about, as usual...

Prime/healthy Lebron couldn't get shit done against Dirk, J Terry, old Kidd, Tyson Chandler, Barea and them... While one of his teammates (Wade) was having just a great series, good enough to "cover" two of Bird's best teammates' 1984 Finals performances. Even Bosh was playing pretty well.

Combined, I'd take Dwyane+Bosh's 2011 Finals over DJ+Parish+McHale's 1984 Finals (from having watched both too)...
And, again, that Mavs squad couldn't really **** with the Showtime Lakers, not even. DON'T neglect stuff like that, competition means plenty too.

And Bird with the Celtics most of the time had an extremely tough road to the Finals, playing in probably the GOAT conference... LBJ most of the time is on a cake-walk, lmfao.

Bird willed the C's over the Lakers in those 1984 Finals...
That's against a team with Kareem, Magic, Worthy, McAdoo, Cooper, Scott, RAmbis, Wilkes, etc!!!
With the way both teams were playing, looking at all the players, most people expected LA to win, they were better on paper too. Boston pulled through in 7 games, though.

^Larry did everything that was necessary for them in order to win; they needed scoring he was getting big buckets, they needed physicality and rebounding he was grabbing major boards and leaving it all on the court, they needed hustle he was out there putting his body on the line, they put Coop on him so he kills him from the inside and on the boards, team D was important he was everywhere on that end...

Dude was even calling his teammates ******* because they weren't up to par, lighting a fire under them for the next game.

Shit, how about the 'Heat Game'? 97

[LAZERUSS]

Gotta love these responses.

Either Lebron, or Bird, is way better than the other.

Personally, and IMHO, Lebron's overall resume has surpassed Bird's. But the Bird-supporters have a valid point in arguing his competition. Bird's Celtics faced great teams throughout the decade of the 80's. Lebron's best teams have not (albeit, the Spurs in the last two years will likely go down as one of the greats of these era.)

And the Lebron fans have a valid point in arguing that his supporting casts have not been nearly as great as Bird's. Sorry, but Wade was basically great in ONE, and Bosh was nothing exceptional in ANY. And in the last two Finals, they were no more than ordinary.

In any case, both are Top-10 players RIGHT NOW. And the reality is...Lebron has a CHANCE, if healthy, to move up considerably. He likely has 3-4 more prime seasons, and then can be a factor in a few more. His ceiling is unlimited.


And, BTW, I get a kick out of those claiming that Lebron "choked" in this relatively meaningless regular season game (and with a 37-8-4-3-3 stat-line I might add.) Just a couple of games before that, he was being hailed as a strong contender for his 5th MVP when he completely dominated Curry and his Warriors.

Typical ISH...your entire career is based on your last game...

[Prime_Shaq]

But would Shaq have made them? I think so.
Yes Shaq would've. :applause: I don't care if Shaq was 0/20 prior

[Dro]

I'll admit I spit my drink out laughing after reading the title. Bird was a slow, fat, unathletic, uncoordinated standstill jump shooter with no abilities at all in the transition game, post and especially on defense. His value was pretty much purely as a shooter and even there I wouldn't say he was better than LeBron except for as a FT shooter and 3-PT shooter.

LeBron destroys Bird in transition, attacking the rim, finishing, post play, clutchness, rebounding, passing, vision and court awareness, playmaking, overall scoring, efficiency, dunking, etc.

Plus LeBron is 1000x better than Bird on defense.

In today's game Bird would be a similar player to Dirk Nowitzki. Perhaps a top 10 player in the game at his peak but nowhere near top 5.
I assume this is sarcasm. If not, this would qualify as one of the dumbest posts in the history of ish......:confusedshrug:

[2010splash]

I assume this is sarcasm. If not, this would qualify as one of the dumbest posts in the history of ish......:confusedshrug:
Nope, 100% serious. It's amazing how badly people overrate the past eras. Listen, I understand you probably watched the 80's, and so did I.

Did I think it was a WEAK era back then. Of course not. But comparing the WEAK 80's to today's much more competitive, athletic and stronger era makes it painfully obvious that Bird wouldn't last very long against the best players today.

Once again, Bird was unathletic, slow, fat, and could not jump at all. Probably a 25 inch vertical at best.

Compare that to someone like LeBron or Westbrook. Dude would get torched in today's era.

LeBron, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Davis >>>>>>> Bird

[Kvnzhangyay]

Yes but all these LeBron stans pretending it ain't even close

Those people are just dumb and naiive or just plainly trolling, no point in even responding

[2010splash]

Explain how Bird averaged more rebounds than Lebron, and more importantly, averaged same number of steals and blocks. How is that possible for such a slow, unathletic white boy? :lol

Also explain why Bird was considered better than Dr J, Dominique, Drexler, Barkley and MJ (in the 80s)? How could such a fat, slow white dude be better than those super athletic freaks?

Listen son, I've been watching basketball for over 4 decades. I've seen them all, and I can tell you that 50's through 80's was a WEAK era in the league. Competition was WEAK back in Bird's time and he would struggle to do anything in a more athletic and competitive era.

Notice how Bird rapidly declined and struggled once the league became stronger/more athletic in the 90's. This was due to his lack of athleticism/mobility, which would serve as a major obstacle for him in today's era with the greatest athletes ever.

Bird would get circles run around him by LeBron and Durant. Instead of a 28/9/6/50%/40%/90% player like he was in the 80's, he'd be closer to a 21/6/4/45%/38%/88% player in today's game.

[305Baller]

Listen son, I've been watching basketball for over 4 decades. I've seen them all, and I can tell you that 50's through 80's was a WEAK era in the league. Competition was WEAK back in Bird's time and he would struggle to do anything in a more athletic and competitive era.

Notice how Bird rapidly declined and struggled once the league became stronger/more athletic in the 90's. This was due to his lack of athleticism/mobility, which would serve as a major obstacle for him in today's era with the greatest athletes ever.

Bird would get circles run around him by LeBron and Durant. Instead of a 28/9/6/50%/40%/90% player like he was in the 80's, he'd be closer to a 21/6/4/45%/38%/88% player in today's game.

Bird had a bad back you mook.

[LAZERUSS]

Nope, 100% serious. It's amazing how badly people overrate the past eras. Listen, I understand you probably watched the 80's, and so did I.

Did I think it was a WEAK era back then. Of course not. But comparing the WEAK 80's to today's much more competitive, athletic and stronger era makes it painfully obvious that Bird wouldn't last very long against the best players today.

Once again, Bird was unathletic, slow, fat, and could not jump at all. Probably a 25 inch vertical at best.

Compare that to someone like LeBron or Westbrook. Dude would get torched in today's era.

LeBron, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Davis >>>>>>> Bird

DeMarcus Cousins is the exact same height, and posted ...get this... a 27.5" vertical at the pre-draft assessments.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/DeMarcus-Cousins-1318/

And yet the man is a 24-12 player and in only 34 mpg. So I am supposed to believe that Bird, who could outshoot Cousins blind-folded, would get "torched" in today's NBA?

C'mon...

[Blue&Orange]

to today's much more competitive, athletic and stronger era
This has been the weakest era since the 60's, and the MVP frontrunner is a guy that looks like he is 15. 15 is also your IQ.

[2010splash]

DeMarcus Cousins is the exact same height, and posted ...get this... a 27.5" vertical at the pre-draft assessments.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/DeMarcus-Cousins-1318/

And yet the man is a 24-12 player and in only 34 mpg. So I am supposed to believe that Bird, who could outshoot Cousins blind-folded, would get "torched" in today's NBA?

C'mon...
Simply wrong. I'll be the first to tell you that Cousins is incredibly overrated and puts up a bunch of empty stats, but physically the difference is that he is a near 7-foot center who weighs 270-280 lbs.

Bird is a SF who lacks the physical abilities to be elite in today's era. Slow, uncoordinated, slow shot release, poor first step, no post game, poor vertical leap, slow end-to-end speed, etc.

[LAZERUSS]

Simply wrong. I'll be the first to tell you that Cousins is incredibly overrated and puts up a bunch of empty stats, but physically the difference is that he is a near 7-foot center who weights 270-280 lbs.

Bird is a SF who lacks the physical abilities to be elite in today's era. Slow, uncoordinated, slow shot release, poor first step, no post game, poor vertical leap, slow end-to-end speed, etc.

Yep...Bird struggled against the likes of Chambers, Dr. J, Wilkins, Nance, et al...none of whom could play today, right?

BTW, Bird is the EXACT same height as Cousins... 6-9 1/2. Same height as Dwight Howard, Andre Drummond, and DeAndre Jordan.

[2010splash]

This has been the weakest era since the 60's, and the MVP frontrunner is a guy that looks like he is 15. 15 is also your IQ.
This is the strongest era by far.

LeBron - arguably the GOAT (top 2 player all-time at worst after Jordan)

Durant - second best SF all-time, maybe the best pure scorer ever

Westbrook - most dominant physical freak athlete of a PG ever (would absolutely light up Magic Johnson 1 on 1, he's simply too fast and explosive)

Harden - slightly worse version of peak Kobe

A. Davis - most dominant 21 year old big man in NBA history, 30+ PER in just his third season. Will be neck and neck with Duncan for GOAT PF.

Curry - again, maybe the best shooter ever and yet he plays PG.

And on and on... much better than the 80's.

[Blue&Orange]

Bird is a SF who lacks the physical abilities to be elite in today's era.
Yes yes human species have evolved in 20 years span, records are falling left and right, with those athletic strong players, oh wait they aren't, the only record broken was by a unathletic white dude :roll:

[2010splash]

Yes yes human species have evolved in 20 years span, records are falling left and right, with those athletic strong players, oh wait they aren't, the only record broken was by a unathletic white dude :roll:
This guy thinks Bird possessed the athleticism to be elite in today's game.

:roll: :oldlol: :roll: :oldlol: :applause:

[LAZERUSS]

This is the strongest era by far.

LeBron - arguably the GOAT (top 2 player all-time at worst after Jordan)

Durant - second best SF all-time, maybe the best pure scorer ever

Westbrook - most dominant physical freak athlete of a PG ever (would absolutely light up Magic Johnson 1 on 1, he's simply too fast and explosive)

Harden - slightly worse version of peak Kobe

A. Davis - most dominant 21 year old big man in NBA history, 30+ PER in just his third season. Will be neck and neck with Duncan for GOAT PF.

Curry - again, maybe the best shooter ever and yet he plays PG.

And on and on... much better than the 80's.

You forgot the physically gifted, and 6-7 3/4" Kevin Love, who is among the rebounding leaders TODAY, and who averaged 15.2 rpg just a few years ago, and in less than 36 mpg.

Or the great Ricky Rubio, who is a career .368 shooter.

Or a 37 year old Steve Nash, playing 33 mpg, and leading the league in apg just a few years ago.

Or a 37 year old Timmy averaging a 15-10 .569 FG% Finals in 33 mpg just last year...

Yep...now those guys are physical marvels alright.

[305Baller]

I wonder if Bird would look like Tyler Hansborough today, yet with the skillz.

[LAZERUSS]

This guy thinks Bird possessed the athleticism to be elite in today's game.

:roll: :oldlol: :roll: :oldlol: :applause:

How about the 6-7 3/4" Kevin Love? Hell, he was a 26-12 guy just a year ago.

Here is an example of his "athleticism"...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7TnbhJr8iY

[Marchesk]

This guy thinks Bird possessed the athleticism to be elite in today's game.

:roll: :oldlol: :roll: :oldlol: :applause:

The majority of NBA players in the 80s were more athletic than Bird, but so what? His skill level, BB IQ, teamwork and even size more than made up for it.

Spud Webb was a shit ton more athletic than Bird. But he's not sniffing the HOF. Why is that?

A more reasonable player, who probably should be in the Hall, is Sydney Moncrief. Dude was Wade-level athletic. He has nothing on Bird (other than defense).

[Prime_Shaq]

This guy thinks Bird possessed the athleticism to be elite in today's game.

:roll: :oldlol: :roll: :oldlol: :applause:
and you don't! :roll:
Especially in an era that the 3pt shot is used more than ever?

[Blue&Orange]

This is the strongest era by far.

LeBron - arguably the GOAT (top 2 player all-time at worst after Jordan)

Durant - second best SF all-time, maybe the best pure scorer ever

Westbrook - most dominant physical freak athlete of a PG ever (would absolutely light up Magic Johnson 1 on 1, he's simply too fast and explosive)

Harden - slightly worse version of peak Kobe

A. Davis - most dominant 21 year old big man in NBA history, 30+ PER in just his third season. Will be neck and neck with Duncan for GOAT PF.

Curry - again, maybe the best shooter ever and yet he plays PG.

And on and on... much better than the 80's.
First, 90% of those players don't belong on Lebron era, they still be playing when Lebron is on crutches.

Second, Lebron jizz must have so brain eating bacteria, you are severely brain damaged.

[Blue&Orange]

:roll: :oldlol: :roll: :oldlol: :applause:
Translation "That dude just made me him his bitch and i don't know what to say"

[LeBird]

They are similar in accolades, i.e. 4 MVP's to 3 for Bird and team success. Both made 5 Finals, one won 3x and the other 2x. The thing is they are both close now. LeBron has 4-5 quality seasons left and maybe a few more all-star caliber seasons after that left like Duncan in his late 30's. This won't be a debate when LeBron retires. He will have much better longevity and more individual success and presumably also more team success.

I agree, but in a way it is unfair to Bird. His era is far and away tougher. He played in the toughest conference in the toughest era of all-time and has all those accolades. It's quite ridiculous. He'd probably achieve as many or more as Lebron if he existed instead of Lebron. That's the thing - Lebron has never had a rival like Bird did with Magic (let alone the likes of Dr J, Moses, Jordan and Kareem). In such an era, the MVPs, Rings, etc, get split so a 1on1 comparison as if 1 ring in the 2010s equals 1 ring in the 80s is disingenuous.

So in the grand scheme of the average NBA fan, Lebron might overtake Larry. But I think as a comparison between players you've got two GOAT candidates that are hard to split.

[poido123]

After Lebron's Instagram embarassment, would you want to put a Beta like Lebron in front of a guy like Bird?



Exactly.

[JohnFreeman]

One is the greatest small forward ever, and the other is Larry Bird

[Height Freak]

I knew the sarcasm would flew over peoples heads.

And I'm not saying he's better than Lebron, only that he could actually dish ;)

[Roundball_Rock]

I agree, but in a way it is unfair to Bird. His era is far and away tougher. He played in the toughest conference in the toughest era of all-time and has all those accolades. It's quite ridiculous. He'd probably achieve as many or more as Lebron if he existed instead of Lebron. That's the thing - Lebron has never had a rival like Bird did with Magic (let alone the likes of Dr J, Moses, Jordan and Kareem). In such an era, the MVPs, Rings, etc, get split so a 1on1 comparison as if 1 ring in the 2010s equals 1 ring in the 80s is disingenuous.

So in the grand scheme of the average NBA fan, Lebron might overtake Larry. But I think as a comparison between players you've got two GOAT candidates that are hard to split.

I concur on substance but not on how people will perceive them based on what you mentioned. Wilt had Russell--a GOAT candidate on the GOAT dynasty--as well as other legends like Baylor, West and Oscar. These things deflated his accolades and rings but this is never factored in. Had Wilt played in the 70's or 90's or 21st century he would have fared better. Similarly, Jordan in the 90's had no GOAT-caliber rival (if you count Hakeem or Barkley types you have to count Kobe and Durant types for LeBron) and was in an odd era where there was only one dynasty team--his. Yet his team success is accepted at face value as is his individual success just as Wilt's relative lack of team success and MVP's (the MDE has only 4? :biggums: ) is taken at face value. Similarly, LeBron's resume will be compared at face value with Bird's, even if that is wrong.

[KevinNYC]

Bird is a SF who lacks the physical abilities to be elite in today's era. Slow, uncoordinated, slow shot release, poor first step, no post game, poor vertical leap, slow end-to-end speed, etc.

You're sticking with all this nonsense aren't you?

Uncoordinated? The guy who scored 47 points while shooting mostly left handed? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R76nMD8buR8) The guy who rebounded his own shot behind the backboard, switched hands and hit nothing but net? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7feeHL0oaws) Look at this oaf. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgPpTvX86n8&t=559)

Slow shot release? Good lord. Plodding. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgPpTvX86n8&t=771)

No post game? Yeah, ok. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgPpTvX86n8&t=109)

Poor first step. Yeah, put a guy like Rodman on him and he would never get a shot. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgPpTvX86n8&t=119)

Bird was just terrible in transition, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgPpTvX86n8&t=560) a dump truck going up hill.

Was 2010 the year you started watching basketball? Your scouting report on Bird is the same shit they said when Bird was in high school. Yet, he ended up doing pretty good.

There's like two generations of guys who could jump better than Larry Bird who ended up finding out they couldn't stop him. Dr. J called him a basketball genius. James Worthy said he would rather guard Michael Jordan than Larry Bird because Larry Bird wore him out mentally and gave him some sleepless nights.

There's like two generations of guys who could jump better than Larry Bird who ended up finding out they couldn't stop him. Give Bird some weight training to go with excellent stamina and he'd be doing just fine today.

[2010splash]

You forgot the physically gifted, and 6-7 3/4" Kevin Love, who is among the rebounding leaders TODAY, and who averaged 15.2 rpg just a few years ago, and in less than 36 mpg.

Or the great Ricky Rubio, who is a career .368 shooter.

Or a 37 year old Steve Nash, playing 33 mpg, and leading the league in apg just a few years ago.

Or a 37 year old Timmy averaging a 15-10 .569 FG% Finals in 33 mpg just last year...

Yep...now those guys are physical marvels alright.
Kevin Love = 260 lbs, beast. He's a PF.

Bird = weak, slow, unathletic, would play SF anyway so needs much more athleticism than someone like Love at PF.

Rubio is horrible, not sure why you brought him up.

Duncan = PF.

LeBron, Durant >>>>>> Bird

Westbrook >>> Bird

[2010splash]

You're sticking with all this nonsense aren't you?

Uncoordinated? The guy who scored 47 points while shooting mostly left handed? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R76nMD8buR8) The guy who rebounded his own shot behind the backboard, switched hands and hit nothing but net? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7feeHL0oaws) Look at this oaf. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgPpTvX86n8&t=559)

Slow shot release? Good lord. Plodding. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgPpTvX86n8&t=771)

No post game? Yeah, ok. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgPpTvX86n8&t=109)

Poor first step. Yeah, put a guy like Rodman on him and he would never get a shot. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgPpTvX86n8&t=119)

Bird was just terrible in transition, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgPpTvX86n8&t=560) a dump truck going up hill.

Was 2010 the year you started watching basketball? Your scouting report on Bird is the same shit they said when Bird was in high school. Yet, he ended up doing pretty good.

There's like two generations of guys who could jump better than Larry Bird who ended up finding out they couldn't stop him. Dr. J called him a basketball genius. James Worthy said he would rather guard Michael Jordan than Larry Bird because Larry Bird wore him out mentally and gave him some sleepless nights.

There's like two generations of guys who could jump better than Larry Bird who ended up finding out they couldn't stop him. Give Bird some weight training to go with excellent stamina and he'd be doing just fine today.
Listen junior, I've been watching basketball for longer than you've been alive. I know a WEAK era when I see one, and let me tell you that Bird played in an era when competition was WEAK.

Compared to the stiffs who played back then, Bird may have looked ok physically, but athleticism today >>> athleticism back in the 80's and every prior era.

As I said, Bird would be a decent player today, perhaps on the level of a prime Caron Butler or Paul Pierce... but would he be a superstar today? Absolutely not.

[KevinNYC]

Kevin Love = 260 lbs, beast. He's a PF.

Bird = weak, slow, unathletic, would play SF anyway so needs much more athleticism than someone like Love at PF.

Kevin Love hasn't been 260 lbs in quite a while now. He's about 245 (http://www.mensfitness.com/life/sports/kevin-loves-mvp-diet). Bird was 220 in an era when basketball players didn't lift weights and damn sure didn't have super personalized, highly technical training that we have today. He'd easily be 240 now. So you need to get a point.

Bird revolutionized his position as clearly as Magic Johnson did his. The guys quick enough to guard Bird weren't big or strong enough to handle Bird in the post. The bigger, stronger guys weren't good enough to handle Bird outside. The whole point of Bird's offensive game was he had enough weapons to deal with anyone and he didn't need much room to get his shot off. Bird also had an arsenal of fakes to get his shot off and some were pretty subtle since he was deadly from so many place guys had to bite on some of the smallest moves. There's a reason that even in 1992 Michael Jordan demanded Bird be on the Olympic team even with his bad back.

[KevinNYC]

Listen junior, I've been watching basketball for longer than you've been alive.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Did you have cataracts in the 1980's? Because it's quite clear you never saw Bird live.

[SHAQisGOAT]

People still throwing bones at 2010splash? Stop it, dude's just a dumb-ass troll craving for attention like some bitch.
Either that or he's ignorant as hell and knows nothing what's speaking of... Which is even sadder.

Then again he's also probably just mad at Bird's greatness...

[LeBird]

I concur on substance but not on how people will perceive them based on what you mentioned. Wilt had Russell--a GOAT candidate on the GOAT dynasty--as well as other legends like Baylor, West and Oscar. These things deflated his accolades and rings but this is never factored in. Had Wilt played in the 70's or 90's or 21st century he would have fared better. Similarly, Jordan in the 90's had no GOAT-caliber rival (if you count Hakeem or Barkley types you have to count Kobe and Durant types for LeBron) and was in an odd era where there was only one dynasty team--his. Yet his team success is accepted at face value as is his individual success just as Wilt's relative lack of team success and MVP's (the MDE has only 4? :biggums: ) is taken at face value. Similarly, LeBron's resume will be compared at face value with Bird's, even if that is wrong.

Yeah, that's what I'm getting it. I understand that fans will just look at things at face value - the Jordan stans do it and will cry a river when Lebron is crowned as the new generation does it - just making the argument that when you get in detail it's still arguable.

[Roundball_Rock]

Yeah, that's what I'm getting it. I understand that fans will just look at things at face value - the Jordan stans do it and will cry a river when Lebron is crowned as the new generation does it - just making the argument that when you get in detail it's still arguable.

Agreed. :cheers:

[Prometheus]

Listen junior, I've been watching basketball for longer than you've been alive. I know a WEAK era when I see one, and let me tell you that Bird played in an era when competition was WEAK.

Compared to the stiffs who played back then, Bird may have looked ok physically, but athleticism today >>> athleticism back in the 80's and every prior era.

As I said, Bird would be a decent player today, perhaps on the level of a prime Caron Butler or Paul Pierce... but would he be a superstar today? Absolutely not.

You're a pathetic troll. I'd honestly think you're jameer but then you would have a massive green rep bar.

[bizil]

Kevin Love hasn't been 260 lbs in quite a while now. He's about 245 (http://www.mensfitness.com/life/sports/kevin-loves-mvp-diet). Bird was 220 in an era when basketball players didn't lift weights and damn sure didn't have super personalized, highly technical training that we have today. He'd easily be 240 now. So you need to get a point.

Bird revolutionized his position as clearly as Magic Johnson did his. The guys quick enough to guard Bird weren't big or strong enough to handle Bird in the post. The bigger, stronger guys weren't good enough to handle Bird outside. The whole point of Bird's offensive game was he had enough weapons to deal with anyone and he didn't need much room to get his shot off. Bird also had an arsenal of fakes to get his shot off and some were pretty subtle since he was deadly from so many place guys had to bite on some of the smallest moves. There's a reason that even in 1992 Michael Jordan demanded Bird be on the Olympic team even with his bad back.

Great point! Bird did indeed revolutionize the SF position. Before him, u didn't see a SF 6'9 with his kind of total skillset. In terms of career averages, his 24 points-10 rebounds-6 assists per game statline is the most impressive of all time.

And I've always said that Bird, Bron, and Magic stand in their own class of perimeter players versatility wise. The fact that they can move up to play the PF position makes them unique among the other great perimeter guys.

[2010splash]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Did you have cataracts in the 1980's? Because it's quite clear you never saw Bird live.
Kid, like I already told you, I've watched hoops for over 4 decades. I've seen them all with my own eyes and I can tell you that Larry Bird was a great player for his time, maybe the best player of the 80's after Jordan.

But put him in the modern era and he would get beaten down silly. He was an incredibly unathletic and slow player with a very slow release and a high release point on his shot, which would make him very vulnerable to elite defenses of today.

[2010splash]

You think this stiff is competing against LeBron and Durant??? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
http://cdn2.ioffer.com/img/item/701/887/71/i7s9Pv8nYxH0ml8.jpg