Stephen A. With That LeBron Stan Mentality [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

Quickening

03-04-2015, 04:46 AM

What? That's not LeBron fan mentality.

That's LeBron hater mentality. LeBron fans say making the finals > not making the finals, where as haters say "2/5" as if it's a bad thing

This... they make out MJ never getting to the finals before the 90s adds to his resume.

Marchesk

03-04-2015, 04:49 AM

What? That's not LeBron fan mentality.

That's LeBron hater mentality. LeBron fans say making the finals > not making the finals, where as haters say "2/5" as if it's a bad thing

One host on ESPN radio after the SB was saying that Brady's legacy depended on Wilson being intercepted at the end of the game. Because of that, he gets compared to Montanna isntead of everyone talking about how he lost hist last 3 SBs.

I have a feeling this is a common fan sentiment. So something outside of Brady's control determined how his legacy is viewed, despite him playing a great game.

Of course we see the same sort of thing argued in basketball all the time.

Marchesk

03-04-2015, 04:50 AM

Thank god West and Baylor didn't play in this era

West and Baylor would get crucified if the 60s played out today. Wilt would get it worst, though.

Milbuck

03-04-2015, 04:53 AM

LeBron James.

Marchesk

03-04-2015, 04:55 AM

LeBron James.

Is he good, can Miami get him?

ImKobe

03-04-2015, 07:14 AM

Lebron has already lost more Finals series than Kobe, and he achieved this amazing feat in only 5 appearances and matched Kobe in his 2nd appearance and on a stacked team.

LeGOAT

Done_And_Done

03-04-2015, 07:20 AM

Do these guys ever talk about anything else?

Spurs5Rings2014

03-04-2015, 07:24 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOXR7KEySiE&t=4m48s

Doesn't want LeBron to go to the Finals unless he's guaranteed the W. 2/6 will be too much to overcome.

Caught that, too.

:oldlol:

Stephen A. is worse than Bayless, honestly. At least Bayless is a fan of the GOAT team.

:applause:

305Baller

03-04-2015, 07:27 AM

Stephen A is nonsensical haha.

ArbitraryWater

03-04-2015, 11:13 AM

"LeBron stan" logic? More like "LeBron hater" logic..

pauk

03-04-2015, 11:55 AM

Doesn't want LeBron to go to the Finals unless he's guaranteed the W. 2/6 will be too much to overcome.

That is actually more like a Jordan stan mentality, choke/quit or even miss playoffs as soon as you know your team aint good enough to win Finals... its more prestigious.... dont what that L on your "X of X in Finals" stat.... and the L in any series prior to Finals dont count so.... awesome...

ImKobe

03-04-2015, 12:06 PM

That is actually more like a Jordan stan mentality, choke/quit or even miss playoffs as soon as you know your team aint good enough to win Finals... its more prestigious.... dont what that L on your "X of X in Finals" stat.... and the L in any series prior to Finals dont count so.... awesome...

Jordan went to 6 NBA Finals, are you calling 6 out of 6 a fluke?

SouBeachTalents

03-04-2015, 01:07 PM

Lebron has already lost more Finals series than Kobe, and he achieved this amazing feat in only 5 appearances and matched Kobe in his 2nd appearance and on a stacked team.

LeGOAT

Have the same amount of Finals MVP's doe

LeBird

03-04-2015, 01:24 PM

Jordan went to 6 NBA Finals, are you calling 6 out of 6 a fluke?

Getting to finals > Not getting to finals

Jordan's more like 6/15 = 40%

Lebron is 5/11 = 45%

45%>40%

Therefore: Lebron > Jordan

Right? :lol

riseagainst

03-04-2015, 01:29 PM

Getting to finals > Not getting to finals

Jordan's more like 6/15 = 40%

Lebron is 5/11 = 45%

45%>40%

Therefore: Lebron > Jordan

Right? :lol

but shouldn't wins in the finals be counted double?

so it's actually 12/15 = 80%

7/11 = 64%

Milbuck

03-04-2015, 01:31 PM

Lmfao.

Everyone needs to get off the King's dick. LeBron > you.

LeBird

03-04-2015, 01:32 PM

but shouldn't wins in the finals be counted double?

so it's actually 12/15 = 80%

7/11 = 64%

Did you get your education in a happy meal?

dude77

03-04-2015, 02:11 PM

One host on ESPN radio after the SB was saying that Brady's legacy depended on Wilson being intercepted at the end of the game. Because of that, he gets compared to Montanna isntead of everyone talking about how he lost hist last 3 SBs.

I have a feeling this is a common fan sentiment. So something outside of Brady's control determined how his legacy is viewed, despite him playing a great game.

Of course we see the same sort of thing argued in basketball all the time.

not a good comparison .. Brady needed that pick because his d had failed up until that point .. he himself had taken care of business and had done all he could and then some when it was needed ..

lebron on the other hand disappeared in one series(dallas) and needed a miracle shot from someone else(beta) to avoid losing the title ..

so while the circumstances are out of their control .. they are quite different circumstances and not really comparable and really lebron brought on his own circumstances in that dallas series .. I'll never forget that shit .. they win if he even half shows up .. losing that title is all on him

MavsSuperFan

03-04-2015, 02:38 PM

West and Baylor would get crucified if the 60s played out today. Wilt would get it worst, though.
lets be real. west would be gordon haywood today and people would be impressed that he is an above average player in the nba

I might be slightly unfair to haywood though seeing that west is shorter.

Demitri98

03-04-2015, 02:39 PM

Making the Finals > Not making the Finals

who cares if you win or lose

I'd rather make the Finals and lose than lose in the first round

dude77

03-04-2015, 02:43 PM

Making the Finals > Not making the Finals

who cares if you win or lose

I'd rather make the Finals and lose than lose in the first round

getting all the way to the finals and not being able to finish the job is a bad mark .. because it means you couldn't finish the job and got punked in front of the world .. you're judged by your titles and being able to reach THE TOP .. if we're going to argue that not getting there is bad .. then getting there and losing is the same shit because both had the same results .. you're a loser either way and didn't win shit

MavsSuperFan

03-04-2015, 02:46 PM

getting all the way to the finals and not being able to finish the job is a bad mark .. because it means you couldn't finish the job and got punked in front of the world .. you're judged by your titles and being able to reach THE TOP .. if we're going to argue that not getting there is bad .. then getting there and losing is the same shit because both had the same results .. you're a loser either way and didn't win shit
So in your mind lebron's legacy improves if he just lost sooner lol

RoundMoundOfReb

03-04-2015, 02:46 PM

Actually no LeBron fan feels that way. It's the LeBron haters who do.

SugarHill

03-04-2015, 02:47 PM

getting all the way to the finals and not being able to finish the job is a bad mark .. because it means you couldn't finish the job and got punked in front of the world .. you're judged by your titles and being able to reach THE TOP .. if we're going to argue that not getting there is bad .. then getting there and losing is the same shit because both had the same results .. you're a loser either way and didn't win shit

I'd rather be the silver medalist than the dude who never even fvcking qualified. :yaohappy:

branslowski

03-04-2015, 02:48 PM

Jordan>Kobe>>LeBron.

dude77

03-04-2015, 02:53 PM

I'd rather be the silver medalist than the dude who never even fvcking qualified. :yaohappy:

:coleman: beta .. win or bust .. everything else is just bullshit .. 2nd place is as good as not qualifying .. no one remembers the runner up

Milbuck

03-04-2015, 02:54 PM

We need to stop viewing this stuff in such a black and white way. Goes for the people who are saying 'making the finals > not making the finals' and for the 2/5 retards.

When you have a legitimate championship level team, and you lose in the finals in large part because of your own underperforming, that should reflect negatively on you, period. It doesn't mean that making the finals wasn't an accomplishment in itself, or that somehow losing in the first round is better than making the finals...all it means that you deserve blame for underperforming in the finals, when your team was good enough to win it all and didn't. That's all. It's really not that unreasonable. Similarly if you have a team that's clearly not championship level, or face a juggernaut team that is on another level than your team..and you lose in the finals..it's obviously not as bad. Acting like there should be no consequences or negative judgement for losing in the finals, purely on the basis that "making the finals > losing before the finals" is way oversimplifying things.

Which is why Lebron deserves all the clowning he gets for the 2011 finals, and for the most part deserves a pass for the 2007 and 2014 finals. Why Kobe deserves to be clowned for the 2004 finals, but the 2008 loss wasn't a huge deal.

branslowski

03-04-2015, 02:56 PM

:coleman: beta .. win or bust .. everything else is just bullshit .. 2nd place is as good as not qualifying .. no one remembers the runner up

Not a LeBron fan or anything, but this is a dumb post...I mean is this something you gonna teach to ur kids?

dude77

03-04-2015, 03:00 PM

So in your mind lebron's legacy improves if he just lost sooner lol

his legacy would improve if he had taken care of business in the finals .. it's just making excuses(which is pathetic) when people say 'well at least he got there' .. that's some beta shit ..

if you get there you gotta finish it .. can't get punked in front of the world .. that's a much bigger stain than losing in a lower round .. like I said, if you're going to argue that losing in earlier rounds is bad, then losing in the finals is just as bad BUT ACTUALLY WORSE because it's in front of the world, biggest stage .. the alphas will finish the job more times than not .. lebron is 2/5 for now .. he's not getting it done

SugarHill

03-04-2015, 03:02 PM

his legacy would improve if he had taken care of business in the finals .. it's just making excuses(which is pathetic) when people say 'well at least he got there' .. that's some beta shit ..

if you get there you gotta finish it .. can't get punked in front of the world .. that's a much bigger stain than losing in a lower round .. like I said, if you're going to argue that losing in earlier rounds is bad, then losing in the finals is just as bad BUT ACTUALLY WORSE because it's in front of the world, biggest stage .. the alphas will finish the job more times than not .. lebron is 2/5 for now .. he's not getting it done

what's better

4/10 in the finals or 3/3 in the finals

dude77

03-04-2015, 03:02 PM

Not a LeBron fan or anything, but this is a dumb post...I mean is this something you gonna teach to ur kids?

hey nothing wrong with being 2nd .. it's still a great accomplishment .. no I won't teach them 'win or you're nothing' .. but for the sake of comparing the absolute greats in elite sports .. bball in this case .. yeah coming in 2nd is very relevant, especially when you're doing it multiple times(lebron)

Milbuck

03-04-2015, 03:04 PM

what's better

4/10 in the finals or 3/3 in the finals
Did the dude with 10 finals appearances choke badly and lose in 6 of them? Because he deserves serious criticism for that. And did the guy who went 3/3 lose in other years to a juggernaut team in a stacked conference in the conference finals every year? Because that's more respectable than choking in the finals 6 times. There's more to it than just losing in the finals > losing before the finals.

pauk

03-04-2015, 03:04 PM

Jordan went to 6 NBA Finals, are you calling 6 out of 6 a fluke?

No, but how do you know Jordan would win a Finals by overachieving with a scrub team to get there like Lebron did? Jordan overachieved with such supporting casts Lebron had in the playoffs, but never all the way to the Finals, if he did then he would have plenty of Finals losses... Jordan never managed to push & carry the horrific load of an entire scrub team all the way to the Finals.... Lebron did... and its not something you use against him, infact thats something u use to commend him....

Dissing the player who took the worst team in NBA history to be in a NBA Finals just because he lost there.... is just like dissing the Formula 1 driver who raced his 50 bhp Fiat Punto against twenty 1000 bhp F1 racers and still came 2nd.... doing what that driver did is more prestigious than NOT entering or coming last.... dont you think?

Thats why that "X of X in Finals" logic is stupid and Jordan stans know it themselves, but hey... gotta use whatever there is to degrade somebody as stupid as it is.... and even if you are gona use that logic, then please dont contradict... because with that logic Jordan is not the GOAT.... Bill Russell is....... by extremly far...

StephHamann

03-04-2015, 03:04 PM

getting all the way to the finals and not being able to finish the job is a bad mark .. because it means you couldn't finish the job and got punked in front of the world .. you're judged by your titles and being able to reach THE TOP .. if we're going to argue that not getting there is bad .. then getting there and losing is the same shit because both had the same results .. you're a loser either way and didn't win shit

Also look at his losses.

Getting swept in 07

Historically bad peformance against the underdog Mavs in 2011, HE was the reason the Heat lose.

Losing by the widest point margin in NBA finals history in 2014.

http://media.giphy.com/media/gdKAVlnm3bmKI/giphy.gif

dunksby

03-04-2015, 03:07 PM

:coleman: beta .. win or bust .. everything else is just bullshit .. 2nd place is as good as not qualifying .. no one remembers the runner up
Couch potato mentality, people still remember Kidd, AI, Reggie Miller, Stockton, Malone, Kemp, Ewing etc.

SugarHill

03-04-2015, 03:09 PM

Also look at his losses.

Getting swept in 07

Historically bad peformance against the underdog Mavs in 2011, HE was the reason the Heat lose.

Losing by the widest point margin in NBA finals history in 2014.

http://media.giphy.com/media/gdKAVlnm3bmKI/giphy.gif

Spurs dominated OKC just as bad. No one ever says a thing.

The fact that LeBron at his age got that cast to the Finals in 07 is amazing.

No excuses for 2011. :yaohappy:

SugarHill

03-04-2015, 03:10 PM

Milbuck

03-04-2015, 03:19 PM

If the argument is purely championships as the main piece, 4 > 3 every single time. I don't care how many tries it took you.
Really the only place where the argument would be purely about that is with trolls though. And anyways, if a guy loses in the finals 6 times in today's era, where there's a wider spread of talent and no 60s Celtics-level dynasty dominating the league...there's something else going on. There has to be questions about that main guy if his team is consistently making the finals for over a decade and he's losing more times than he's winning. It's not a complete death sentence on his legacy, but there has to be some questioning.

Let's say the Pacers hadn't collapsed last year, and they played like the dominant team they were at the start of the season, in the ECF...and they beat Miami with Lebron putting up a monster series. Wade, Bosh, all of the other guys completely shrink. Why would that be less impressive than what actually happened, which was Lebron and the Heat pretty much rolling to the finals against zero teams in the East that posed an actual threat, and getting destroyed in the finals?

Optimus Prime

03-04-2015, 03:48 PM

LeBron stans everywhere are seriously shook about dat 2/5. 2/6 would be like the end of the world for them. What will they do if their king fails yet again on the biggest stage with a stacked team?

:kobe:

LeBird

03-04-2015, 03:58 PM

Did the dude with 10 finals appearances choke badly and lose in 6 of them? Because he deserves serious criticism for that. And did the guy who went 3/3 lose in other years to a juggernaut team in a stacked conference in the conference finals every year? Because that's more respectable than choking in the finals 6 times. There's more to it than just losing in the finals > losing before the finals.

What if the 3/3 dude simply didn't have the ability to raise his team to a RS record that would have improved their playoff chances?

Not everything is about 'choking in the finals'.

You'd rather someone finish their career with a 5/10 finals record who might have had bad finals in some of them, than someone who couldn't get his team to more than 3 finals, even if he did win them all. Also, what if the person who had a perfect finals record had by far the best team during his era, which was comparatively weaker?

I take your point; context matters. But no one should take not getting to the finals over getting to the finals; even if it is to choke there.

Milbuck

03-04-2015, 04:04 PM

What if the 3/3 dude simply didn't have the ability to raise his team to a RS record that would have improved their playoff chances?

Not everything is about 'choking in the finals'.

You'd rather someone finish their career with a 5/10 finals record who might have had bad finals in some of them, than someone who couldn't get his team to more than 3 finals, even if he did win them all.
I never said it was all about choking in the finals. All I said was that context matters, and used choking in the finals as an example.

And I'm not saying we should take an ECF loss over a finals loss, obviously you want to finish 2nd instead of 3rd/4th. But there's more to it than that imo, the performance in those series matters. When I'm judging players I'll definitely favor the guy who performed at an extremely high level and lost in the ECF to a juggernaut team over the guy that thoroughly underperformed and lost to a very beatable opponent in the finals. Was the 2011 Heat season more successful than the 2009 Cavs season? Yeah. But 2009 Lebron shits on 2011 Lebron, and that's something we can only acknowledge if we also acknowledge that making the finals is not always more impressive.

JerrySeinfeld

03-04-2015, 04:08 PM

Spurs dominated OKC just as bad.

No they didn't. OKC had more injury problems and still took the Spurs to 6 games.

ArbitraryWater

03-04-2015, 04:11 PM

Jordan>Kobe>>LeBron.

http://media.giphy.com/media/3i7zenReaUuI0/giphy.gif

TheMan

03-04-2015, 04:39 PM

I'd rather be the silver medalist than the dude who never even fvcking qualified. :yaohappy:
In other words...

Jordan 6 gold medals
LeBron 2 gold medals and 3 silver medals

MJ >>> LBJ
:applause:

aj1987

03-04-2015, 04:43 PM

Are LeBron haters legit clinically retarded?

HOoopCityJones

03-04-2015, 04:45 PM

You can always tell which topic really boils moe's blood and they all have to do with Lebron.

Dro

03-04-2015, 05:59 PM

No, but how do you know Jordan would win a Finals by overachieving with a scrub team to get there like Lebron did?
There's a big difference between the 2007 Eastern Conference and the Eastern Conference when Jordan played...Big difference....Not to take credit away from Lebron, what he did with that Cleveland team was excellent but lets not act like its not a different era.

TheMan

03-04-2015, 08:07 PM

There's a big difference between the 2007 Eastern Conference and the Eastern Conference when Jordan played...Big difference....Not to take credit away from Lebron, what he did with that Cleveland team was excellent but lets not act like its not a different era.
Absolutely...that's why context is always important. LeStans are always bringing up 1-9 against Jordan but fail to mention the teams he lost against and the lack of a quality team around him.

BTW, I don't hold 07 and even 14 Finals against LeBron, I absolutely do hold the 11 Finals against him, that was just historically bad.

Top Gun

03-04-2015, 08:11 PM

I don't watch them anymore. By Lebron's 2nd year in Miami these guys didn't talk about anything else in the NBA, it's got so stale cos you know how they're both going to go in each topic.

STATUTORY

03-04-2015, 08:14 PM

Spurs dominated OKC just as bad. No one ever says a thing.

The fact that LeBron at his age got that cast to the Finals in 07 is amazing.

No excuses for 2011. :yaohappy:

not adjusting for strength of conferences doe

fact of the matter is he lost to the first western conference team he faced