James Harden winning the MVP will be a travesty.

[nathanjizzle]

In games classified as clutch games (with 5 minutes left and a 5 point deficit). "MVP" Harden has led his team to a 9-11 45% record. Here are the last 7 MVPs and their record in games classified as "clutch" games.


2008 Kobe bryant 22-11 66.7%
2009 Lebron 24-7 77.4%
2010 Lebron 32-9 78.0%
2011 Rose 30-10 75%
2012 Lebron 15-10 60.0%
2013 Lebron 27-6 81.8%
2014 Durant 22-19 53.7%
2015 Curry 12-5 70%

[You Cant Ban Me]

you a bitch ass *****...i cant think of any other way to articulate what im trying to say

[Top Gun]

Justifying Lebron's MVPs by his clutchness is ridiculous.

[Budadiiii]

There is no such thing as "clutch games" you chubby geek.

Rose will always be known as the biggest MVP travesty in history.

[Fudge]

There is no such thing as "clutch games" you chubby geek.

Rose will always be known as the biggest MVP travesty in history.
:roll:

[Eric Cartman]

... says the Derrick Rose stan.

[Hittin_Shots]

Justifying Lebron's MVPs by his clutchness is ridiculous.

Depends if you go by that one end all clutch play, or his play in so many fourth quarters leading up to or avoiding that last play..

is it better for ur team to be down 1-2 so u can make or miss the game. Or that instead your team has grabbed the lead by enough to be safe from that kind of play..

[Legends66NBA7]

No it won't.

[Top Gun]

Depends if you go by that one end all clutch play, or his play in so many fourth quarters leading up to or avoiding that last play..

is it better for ur team to be down 1-2 so u can make or miss the game. Or that instead your team has grabbed the lead by enough to be safe from that kind of play..

I'm not gonna bother arguing as it's not worth it and I agree with your points somewhat.

It's the OP I disagree with, Harden is playing by far with the least talent.

[Hittin_Shots]

2010 half of his games he was down 5 with 5 mins to go? :wtf:

Wouldn't having a lesser amount of clutch games with similar winning record be better anyway? Not putting yourself in shIt situations is better than triumphing in those situations I'd have thought.

[Hittin_Shots]

I'm not gonna bother arguing as it's not worth it and I agree with your points somewhat.

It's the OP I disagree with, Harden is playing by far with the least talent.

Yea Harden would be perfectly fine getting MVP for his play this season.

[Lebronxrings]

:eek: lebron sure is clutch

[24-Inch_Chrome]

You're a ****ing idiot, "clutch" numbers are just one of the moronic ways you try to prop up Rose's MVP/shit on other, better players. There is so much more to the MVP than clutch games.

2014-2015 Harden > 2010-2011 Rose, no question. Harden has been much more valuable to the Rockets and where they sit in the standings than Rose was to the Bulls, the Rockets without Harden aren't making the playoffs, the Bulls without Rose went 45-37 and 48-34.

I'll add that I really don't like Harden, and I'm still hoping that Westbrook somehow manages to win the MVP (90% chance this doesn't happen) but Harden's impact this season is undeniable. If he does win he'll be a deserving winner.

[Top Gun]

Plus Harden ranks highly in individual clutch stats this year.

[Beastmode88]

:eek: lebron sure is clutch(jk can't make free throws)

nice white txt

[Prime_Shaq]

Harden winning this year won't be any different from Rose winning it in 2011. Sole offensive option in a defensive team.

[SCdac]

It is what it is... Steve Nash has twice as many MVP's as Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Kobe, Big O, and a number of other players... It's predominantly an offensive award

[nathanjizzle]

:facepalm the amount of denial by posters here is unbelievable. I mean stats are stats, no need to be so offended by them that you have to attack me. If harden doesnt deserve mvp, why be mad at me for it?

[upside24]

Harden has been a beast this year and like a previous poster stated he has done it with less talent and mostly without Dwight.

He may be a lesser player than some of the greats that have won the award but he has been a force this year. Only thing he lacks is defense.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

:facepalm the amount of denial by posters here is unbelievable. I mean stats are stats, no need to be so offended by them that you have to attack me. If harden doesnt deserve mvp, why be mad at me for it?

I don't understand how you're arguing against Harden's MVP candidacy but defend Rose's in 2011. Give it up, stop being such a ****ing stan.

[upside24]

Only other guys in the discussion are Westbrook and Curry.

Westbrook has been incredible but has missed a ton of games and the Thunder are too low in the standings. Curry has been sensational and his team has a great record but he has Klay and a deep roster.

Harden fully deserves the MVP.

[Rolando]

It is either Harden or Curry.

Lebron could have been in the running also except his team started off like crap and then he decided to take a vacation in the middle of the season.

[SugarHill]

2015 Harden > 2011 Rose

[upside24]

2015 Harden > 2011 Rose
Without a doubt. Harden is a superior scorer and a far better passer/playmaker.

Don't get me wrong, Rose was great in 2011 but him getting the MVP was more about the hate for LeBron and people wanting someone else to get the award.

[nathanjizzle]

I don't understand how you're arguing against Harden's MVP candidacy but defend Rose's in 2011. Give it up, stop being such a ****ing stan.

how? 30-10 vs 9-11 is how. :facepalm

[el_locoteee]

how? 30-10 vs 9-11 is how. :facepalm

Lol Harden never let his team get with a 5 point deficit. That's why.

19 vs 40

[smoovegittar]

pfft.. who cares? makes for good copy. Face it; the dude's good.

[SCdac]

To be fair to Rose, he averaged ~8 assists for a team that was also affected by injuries and played at a much slower pace. As we can see, what it takes to win MVP varies by season, but it mostly takes alot of points & assists.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

how? 30-10 vs 9-11 is how. :facepalm

There's so much more to the MVP award than your "clutch games" argument. Harden has been more valuable to the Rockets than Rose was to the Bulls, 2014-2015 Harden > 2010-2011 Rose. That's all there is to it.

I'm not a fan of Harden's but there is no question that he's a deserving candidate, just give up.

[nathanjizzle]

Lol Harden never let his team get with a 5 point deficit. That's why.

19 vs 40

oh, ok. :facepalm

[el_locoteee]

oh, ok. :facepalm

Houston Rockets with harden have the best record in games decided by 8 or less.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Just out of curiosity, is this idea of a clutch player legitimate in basketball? The idea of a clutch hitter in baseball was debunked but I'm interested in its status in basketball.

[nathanjizzle]

There's so much more to the MVP award than your "clutch games" argument. Harden has been more valuable to the Rockets than Rose was to the Bulls, 2014-2015 Harden > 2010-2011 Rose. That's all there is to it.

I'm not a fan of Harden's but there is no question that he's a deserving candidate, just give up.

please explain how there is "much more" than how good a player is to will their team to victory in clutch situations? so in 20 games where it comes down to a 5 point defecit, harden doesnt lead his team to not even a break even record? thats an mvp candidate? :facepalm :hammerhead: ive already shown that prior mvps have a winning record, so why would harden be the exception? hes not, hes overrated in actual impact.

rose in 2011 definitely better than harden, thats just a joke to even say. 30-10 vs 9-11 :hammerhead: 40 games rose led his team to win 75 percent of those games in the clutch. LOL :hammerhead:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

please explain how there is "much more" than how good a player is to will their team to victory in clutch situations? so in 20 games where it comes down to a 5 point defecit, harden doesnt lead his team to not even a break even record? thats an mvp candidate? :facepalm :hammerhead:

rose in 2011 definitely better than harden, thats just a joke to even say. 30-10 vs 9-11 :hammerhead: 40 games rose led his team to win 75 percent of those games in the clutch. LOL :hammerhead:

:facepalm

How about their performance outside of your arbitrary "clutch" area? Harden doesn't let his team get into a position where he needs to lead a comeback, I'll take staying away from close games and winning by a higher point differential more often over allowing the other team to stay in the game for longer and risk taking a loss.

Rose going 30-10 means that 40 of 82 games were close (in that bullshit "clutch" category) while Harden has gone 9-11 in 60. Almost 50% of Rose's games were close enough to enter that arbitrary category while only 33% of Harden's have, all while playing in a much better conference with a worse team. Rose simply being in that situation so often should be a knock on him if he's allowing the other team to stay that close with such frequency.

You're not even worth arguing with, I don't think you're smart enough to understand how hopeless your case is. You're the only person I've seen argue 2010-2011 Rose > 2014-2015 Harden, and that's only happening because you're one of the worst stans on this site.

[UK2K]

Doesn't Harden have the highest FG% during 'clutch' time in the league over the last two years?

Pretty sure he does.

[knicksman]

harden>>>rose

[Hittin_Shots]

oh, ok. :facepalm

If you don't understand that argument you're a blind Stan that has no reasoning.. your clutch games argument can't only count the positive and ignore the negative factors.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

If you don't understand that argument your a blind Stan that has no reasoning.. your clutch games argument can't only count the positive and ignore the negative factors.

That's exactly why he doesn't understand the argument. :lol

[Joyner82reload]

Rose fan talking about MVP travesties. I've officially seen it all.

[Beastmode88]

d rose will probably not even make the hof. now that's going to be a travesty as a mvp.