Westbrook vs prime AI [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

SyRyanYang

03-05-2015, 12:38 AM

Westbrook would do a way, way better job against AI than the other way around. AI wouldn't get shut down but I could definitely see Westbrook forcing terrible efficiency.

This. So sick of all those revisionist.
If Westbrook had a team built around him in the East (say he has Rose's Bulls), he would've put up similar stats and got to the finals at least once by now.

You Cant Ban Me

03-05-2015, 12:39 AM

lol I made this thread for you champ

booking your flight?
no http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/icons/icon9.gif

Roundball_Rock

03-05-2015, 12:39 AM

A big difference between the two is Westbrook can be a force rebounding the ball; AI, given his size, could not.

Milbuck

03-05-2015, 12:39 AM

You mean forcing usual efficiency.
:oldlol: Like even worse than that. I could see Iverson getting extremely frustrated and chucking 40+ shots. He'd get his points but Westbrook if he put his mind to it completely, he could give AI trouble.

And on the other end AI isn't doing shit defensively against him.

You Cant Ban Me

03-05-2015, 12:41 AM

This. So sick of all those revisionist.
If Westbrook had a team built around him in the East (say he has Rose's Bulls), he would've put up similar stats and got to the finals at least once by now.
Westbrook couldnt win a ring with harden and durant on his team....you know what if you want to be stupid knock yourself out im not debating this dumb shit no more have fun

navy

03-05-2015, 12:41 AM

greatest-ever

03-05-2015, 01:21 AM

Westbrook this season is playing at a higher level than Ai ever did. If you disagree then you need to take the nostalgia glasses off.

JebronLames

03-05-2015, 01:26 AM

Westbrook this season is playing at a higher level than Ai ever did. If you disagree then you need to take the nostalgia glasses off.
:applause:

magnax1

03-05-2015, 01:29 AM

AI's probably the better scorer, but WB is better at everything else at this point. Well, except for the fact that he's still kind of an idiot.

greatest-ever

03-05-2015, 01:32 AM

Westbrook couldnt win a ring with harden and durant on his team....you know what if you want to be stupid knock yourself out im not debating this dumb shit no more have fun
And none of them were in their prime yet dumbass, plus they were up against Peak Lebron, and Wade at the tail end of his prime.

tgan3

03-05-2015, 01:33 AM

Westbrook is the new AI.

GreggPopazit

03-05-2015, 01:42 AM

Westbrook trying to carry his team leads to great stats, but several losses and needs OT to beat an intentionally tanking team.

Iverson carried his team to the Finals.

greatest-ever

03-05-2015, 01:49 AM

Westbrook trying to carry his team leads to great stats, but several losses and needs OT to beat an intentionally tanking team.

Iverson carried his team to the Finals.
Yeah in a joke of a conference, and had the DPOY on his squad. Look ai had a nice run but lets not act like he was on some diff level than Westbrook. You're using narratives to prop up ai, its disingenuous.

ILLsmak

03-05-2015, 03:53 AM

Yeah in a joke of a conference, and had the DPOY on his squad. Look ai had a nice run but lets not act like he was on some diff level than Westbrook. You're using narratives to prop up ai, its disingenuous.

"and the sixth man" and the coach of the year, even, right? Some of that was because of Iverson, tho.

I don't think I've ever seen a 'good team' like the 6ers that had nobody that could make a J. They were a historically bad offensive team. Comparing them to Rose Bulls is stupid because they had shooters and even some some-what finishers. Like I said go back and watch some of those games and you'll see them throwing the ball off the side of the backboard and shit when Iverson isn't shooting.

Can't compare any team to that team... no matter how 'good' they were on D. And they had a pretty good defensive squad, but let's not act like it was an all-time great team on D. They were so bad on offense. Like I said... absolutely shit.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/2001.html

look at that shit. they were one of the worst 3 point shooting teams in the league. Revisionist history is trying to shit on that run.

Now, Westbrook is balling so I'm not gonna compare them atm. We'll see how it turns out at the end of the year. If he makes it to the Finals then we can compare the years. Cuz no matter 'how bad the east was then', Westbrook's team is that much better than AIs.

-Smak

Bigsmoke

03-05-2015, 06:33 AM

Westbrook this season better than Iverson ever was

warriorfan

03-05-2015, 06:54 AM

A.I. in today's rules with no hand-checking would blow Westbrook out of the water

theaussieguy

03-05-2015, 07:12 AM

Westbrook this season better than Iverson ever was

bullsh!t, iverson at 5'10 led a scrubtacular team to the phucking finals, lets say durant doesnt come back this season, there's noway WB leads his team to the finals despite having a far better supporting cast.

People forget how dominant prime AI was.

Also keep in mind Westbrook only has a 36.5 inch vertical where as AI had a 40+ inch vertical and was one of the fastest players of all time.

greatest-ever

03-05-2015, 11:46 AM

bullsh!t, iverson at 5'10 led a scrubtacular team to the phucking finals, lets say durant doesnt come back this season, there's noway WB leads his team to the finals despite having a far better supporting cast.

People forget how dominant prime AI was.

Also keep in mind Westbrook only has a 36.5 inch vertical where as AI had a 40+ inch vertical and was one of the fastest players of all time.
Yeah Ai was so dominant with his typical 40 fg% and 50 ts%:cheers:

Westbrook is not only more efficient than Ai usually was but hes getting more assists and rebounds than ai ever did. Better and longer defender too.

Take the nostalgia glasses off pal.

Jlamb47

03-05-2015, 11:50 AM

Lol at all these people saying Iverson went to Finals....So did Westbrook, and Durant and Harden werent close to the players they are now. Everyone talks about having Kd and Harden and they were in young 20's. Westbrook > AI
He impacts the game alot more then Iverson has and Iverson was one of my favorite players.

hateraid

03-05-2015, 12:17 PM

This. So sick of all those revisionist.
If Westbrook had a team built around him in the East (say he has Rose's Bulls), he would've put up similar stats and got to the finals at least once by now.

Hell no. Iverson was a multiple scoring champ! He was a big game closer. He was unstoppable in soo many ways.
Westbrook would never lead the league in scoring and has shown he can disappear in big games. Dropping 49 on Canaan and Ish Smith and now he's the greatest scoring PG of all-time? C'mon now

Cold soul

03-05-2015, 12:24 PM

Westbrook is playing at higher level right now than Iverson ever did.

hateraid

03-05-2015, 12:54 PM

Yeah in a joke of a conference, and had the DPOY on his squad. Look ai had a nice run but lets not act like he was on some diff level than Westbrook. You're using narratives to prop up ai, its disingenuous.

Mutombo didn't join the team until after the all-star break and the Sixers still had the best record in the league by a good margin. The year before they had one of the best turn arounds in franchise history. This is with Theo Ratliff and Matt Geiger as their centers. Their second best player was Aaron McKie. Eric Snow was their starting PG and they had no legitimate deep threats on the team. He was not on a stacked team and replacing Ratliff with Mutombo is not a crazy upgrade by any means. Iverson did carry a far less superior team.
AI may have not had the percentages, but he scored at will and finished strong. He is by far a tougher, more competitive player. He was an MVP in a league that had Shaq and Kobe. WB still isn't even the best player on his own team. Prime AI would make a case over Durant as best player on the team.
No nostalgia glasses made me come up with that. AI isn't even too far removed for that term. His prime was with guys who are currently still competing. Come at people with that term when they bring up players like Tim Hardaway, Penny Hardaway, Kevin Johnson....to compare

IMObjective

03-05-2015, 12:55 PM

Hell no. Iverson was a multiple scoring champ! He was a big game closer. He was unstoppable in soo many ways.
Westbrook would never lead the league in scoring and has shown he can disappear in big games. Dropping 49 on Canaan and Ish Smith and now he's the greatest scoring PG of all-time? C'mon noweven though ai might be the better scorer, you have to also consider all the other aspects of the game.

hateraid

03-05-2015, 01:00 PM

even though ai might be the better scorer, you have to also consider all the other aspects of the game.

I look at the impact they have on the floor. Statistically MCW is better statistically than WB at lot of facets of the game, don't make him a better player. The intangibles AI possesses outwieghs any rebounding, passing, stats that WB has an edge over.
AI was physically tough, more competitive, a better closer, and a more feared player. Gimme that over a PG who can rebound better

GOBB

03-05-2015, 01:46 PM

greatest-ever

03-05-2015, 02:09 PM

Funny how efficiency is always the knock on Iverson as if Westbrook is any better. Hilarious.

Westbrook this season 43% FG, usually on here people knock that when it comes to AI. Westbrook wears tight pants and shirts like some of you so its ok.

Westbrook this season 28% from 3pt, usually on here people knock that when it comes to AI. Westbrook wears tight pants and shirts like some of you so its ok.

Its funny to see.

When did that become a deal breaker? :oldlol: Who cares about who rebounded better between scoring guards.
Well FWIW Ai in his mvp season that people are glorifying in this thread shot 42 fg%, .518 ts% and he had several seasons in that time frame that he was as bad or even worse efficiency wise. Westbrook is at 43.4 fg%, and .536 ts% right now so yeah he does have a small edge in efficiency and has a PER of 29.8 which is way higher than AI's career high PER.

Also, why shouldn't we consider rebounding? Because it doesn't fit your argument? Westbrook is averaging 7 rebounds in only 33 minutes of play, ai's career high was 4.9 in nearly 42 minutes of play, that must be considered.

I'm not saying that Westbrook is way better than Ai was, but given his level of play this season i think it's clear he is already peaking higher.

hateraid

03-05-2015, 02:15 PM

Well FWIW Ai in his mvp season that people are glorifying in this thread shot 42 fg%, .518 ts% and he had several seasons in that time frame that he was as bad or even worse efficiency wise. Westbrook is at 43.4 fg%, and .536 ts% right now so yeah he does have a small edge in efficiency and has a PER of 29.8 which is way higher than AI's career high PER.

Also, why shouldn't we consider rebounding? Because it doesn't fit your argument? Westbrook is averaging 7 rebounds in only 33 minutes of play, ai's career high was 4.9 in nearly 42 minutes of play, that must be considered.

I'm not saying that Westbrook is way better than Ai was, but given his level of play this season i think it's clear he is already peaking higher.

Because a guard going for a rebound doesn't have a huge impact on the outcome of the game. It more suggests that the post players don't do their jobs. Guards are meant to defend a perimeter and leak out when the posts get a defensive rebound.

greatest-ever

03-05-2015, 02:26 PM

Because a guard going for a rebound doesn't have a huge impact on the outcome of the game. It more suggests that the post players don't do their jobs. Guards are meant to defend a perimeter and leak out when the posts get a defensive rebound.
Yeah that doesn't make sense.

Westbrook is active on the glass, which is a good thing no matter how you want to slice it.

hateraid

03-05-2015, 02:35 PM

Yeah that doesn't make sense.

Westbrook is active on the glass, which is a good thing no matter how you want to slice it.

Or it doesn't make sense because it doesn't fit YOUR argument?

It's a good thing, but not an impact statistic to gauge against another player. If a guard has to help on the glass then you have a weak rebounding front court.
Regardless it ultimately has no true bearing based on a head to head comparison. Assists yes, 3 pt % sure, who rebounds more? I doubt when guards are scouted his rebounding ability puts him over the top of another player

STATUTORY

03-05-2015, 02:36 PM

AI played in a much tougher defensive and one of the most offensively depressed era in NBA history

Westbrook plays in a time when scrubs like Lin are going off for 20+ regularly

big difference

Jlamb47

03-05-2015, 02:38 PM

AI played in a much tougher defensive and one of the most offensively depressed era in NBA history

Westbrook plays in a time when scrubs like Lin are going off for 20+ regularly

big difference

Lol the gaurd position is way deeper now then it was with A.I.
Westbrook is gaurding Curry,Wall,Irving,Paul,Lillard,Lowry,Teague...etc

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

03-05-2015, 02:44 PM

I'll respectfully disagree with those saying his rebounding doesn't have much impact. Much of where he rates in Real Plus-Minus (impact stat) is a direct result of his rebounding and playmaking. He and Curry have been absolute terrors this season.

Westbrook is a better player. More impact on the defensive end, puts more pressure on defenses with his athleticism; dude is just a better all-around talent.

greatest-ever

03-05-2015, 02:45 PM

Or it doesn't make sense because it doesn't fit YOUR argument?

It's a good thing, but not an impact statistic to gauge against another player. If a guard has to help on the glass then you have a weak rebounding front court.
Regardless it ultimately has no true bearing based on a head to head comparison. Assists yes, 3 pt % sure, who rebounds more? I doubt when guards are scouted his rebounding ability puts him over the top of another player
Alright first of all i didn't use rebounding as my whole argument, thats just the part that you nitpicked. As i've said througout this thread there's many aspects in westbrook's favor here, he's cleary a better passer 8.2 assists to 3.9 turnovers eclipses any season of ai's, hes rebounding better, better defender, way higher PER and is a comparable scorer on top of that. He's doing all this in just 33 mpg while Ai was always playing over 40 mpg.

If you want to argue for ai then do so in a logical manner and don't counter my arguments by nitpicking.

hateraid

03-05-2015, 03:00 PM

Alright first of all i didn't use rebounding as my whole argument, thats just the part that you nitpicked. As i've said througout this thread there's many aspects in westbrook's favor here, he's cleary a better passer 8.2 assists to 3.9 turnovers eclipses any season of ai's, hes rebounding better, better defender, way higher PER and is a comparable scorer on top of that. He's doing all this in just 33 mpg while Ai was always playing over 40 mpg.

If you want to argue for ai then do so in a logical manner and don't counter my arguments by nitpicking.

I just countered a point you made to GoBB. I didn't think it was offensive or nitpicky. I ran with that point and you responded.

Further more your argument comprises solely on stats. Impact on the game is completely different and in an era where offenses were stagnant and meant to shut down guards AI carried a big load. All the intangibles belonged to AI as well. Better game closer, physically and mentally game tougher, more competitive. He was chosen over a prime Shaq as MVP for goodness sakes. Best player in the league! Cite all the stats you want, AI was more important to his team or more valuable than WB is to his.
As Barkley says, those who can't play refer to PER

GOBB

03-05-2015, 03:01 PM

Or it doesn't make sense because it doesn't fit YOUR argument?

It's a good thing, but not an impact statistic to gauge against another player. If a guard has to help on the glass then you have a weak rebounding front court.
Regardless it ultimately has no true bearing based on a head to head comparison. Assists yes, 3 pt % sure, who rebounds more? I doubt when guards are scouted his rebounding ability puts him over the top of another player

I just countered a point you made to GoBB. I didn't think it was offensive or nitpicky. I ran with that point and you responded.

Further more your argument comprises solely on stats. Impact on the game is completely different and in an era where offenses were stagnant and meant to shut down guards AI carried a big load. All the intangibles belonged to AI as well. Better game closer, physically and mentally game tougher, more competitive. He was chosen over a prime Shaq as MVP for goodness sakes. Best player in the league! Cite all the stats you want, AI was more important to his team or more valuable than WB is to his.
As Barkley says, those who can't play refer to PER

Bingo.

ILLsmak

03-05-2015, 03:13 PM

Alright first of all i didn't use rebounding as my whole argument, thats just the part that you nitpicked. As i've said througout this thread there's many aspects in westbrook's favor here, he's cleary a better passer 8.2 assists to 3.9 turnovers eclipses any season of ai's, hes rebounding better, better defender, way higher PER and is a comparable scorer on top of that. He's doing all this in just 33 mpg while Ai was always playing over 40 mpg.

If you want to argue for ai then do so in a logical manner and don't counter my arguments by nitpicking.

lol HES PASSING TO BETTER PLAYERS.

And yea "Westbrook went to the Finals" but he didn't lead a team there. He also didn't do very much at all. IVerson put up 35 ppg and got a W vs one the best record team in NBA playoff history.

Ai was playing over 40 mpg because he had to. I don't punish people for being on the court. That Iverson can play like 43 mpg or 46 in the playoffs is a huge plus to me, especially considering how hard he goes.

I feel like you guys are trolling to really say Westbrook is playing at a higher level than AI right now. That's some pretty ridiculous shit. Do you mean this last 5 games? You know AI has put up some impressive stretches, too.

**** PER also, Iverson was a beast because he could score in the midrange vs multiple people. Even if it was at 41%. When the game is on the line, that's a good percentage.

-Smak

greatest-ever

03-05-2015, 03:23 PM

ISHGoat

03-05-2015, 03:30 PM

Mutombo didn't join the team until after the all-star break and the Sixers still had the best record in the league by a good margin. The year before they had one of the best turn arounds in franchise history. This is with Theo Ratliff and Matt Geiger as their centers. Their second best player was Aaron McKie. Eric Snow was their starting PG and they had no legitimate deep threats on the team. He was not on a stacked team and replacing Ratliff with Mutombo is not a crazy upgrade by any means. Iverson did carry a far less superior team.
AI may have not had the percentages, but he scored at will and finished strong. He is by far a tougher, more competitive player. He was an MVP in a league that had Shaq and Kobe. WB still isn't even the best player on his own team. Prime AI would make a case over Durant as best player on the team.
No nostalgia glasses made me come up with that. AI isn't even too far removed for that term. His prime was with guys who are currently still competing. Come at people with that term when they bring up players like Tim Hardaway, Penny Hardaway, Kevin Johnson....to compare

If his percentages (FG%, TS%) are obvious much worse, how is he scoring at will?

hateraid

03-05-2015, 04:05 PM

If his percentages (FG%, TS%) are obvious much worse, how is he scoring at will?

I think being a multiple scoring champ answers your question

ISHGoat

03-05-2015, 04:07 PM

I think being a multiple scoring champ answers your question

Any nba scrub can "score at will" taking 25 FGA per game

hateraid

03-05-2015, 04:10 PM

Ok i give up, there's clearly some bias/nostalgia for Ai in this thread so i'm not gonna continue this argument. Some people just don't like facts and use narratives along with things like "more impact!" then back it up with more narratives. Sorry if people don't like numbers but the stats show what actually happened on the court.

Because people are making a case for an older generation player it's considered nostalgia?

Context and stats are 50/50. The eye test is just as valid, if not even more than statistics alone. Stats don't measure physical attributes, mentality, ability, the outcome of a game....Furthermore you don't win accolades as an individual based on stats alone.

Cowboy Thunder

03-05-2015, 04:14 PM

http://imgur.com/nTszncE.jpg

RoseCity07

03-05-2015, 04:15 PM

Let me just throw this out there. Prime AI went into Staples Center in game 1 of the NBA Finals and dropped 48 against prime Shaq and Kobe. From what I remember of that roster he did it with Eric Snow as his shooting guard and Mutumbo. How quickly people forget.

I agree with many current NBA players that he is the best pound for pound player ever.

hateraid

03-05-2015, 04:15 PM

Any nba scrub can "score at will" taking 25 FGA per game

Then why don't they? Then why don't players with better percentages shoot more, if not take every single shot. The percentages are better for them to win?
Scoring is just more than a percentage. It's the ability to create a shot in multiple facets. If AI was just a chucker than he should be easily stopped. How do you stop a chucker at the y or an open gym? You don't think that applies to the NBA? He did it multiple years and teams still couldn't figure out how to stop him.
You should stop the hate and just appreciate

mehyaM24

03-05-2015, 04:30 PM

I just countered a point you made to GoBB. I didn't think it was offensive or nitpicky. I ran with that point and you responded.

Further more your argument comprises solely on stats. Impact on the game is completely different and in an era where offenses were stagnant and meant to shut down guards AI carried a big load. All the intangibles belonged to AI as well. Better game closer, physically and mentally game tougher, more competitive. He was chosen over a prime Shaq as MVP for goodness sakes. Best player in the league! Cite all the stats you want, AI was more important to his team or more valuable than WB is to his.
As Barkley says, those who can't play refer to PER
except iverson was never better than shaq at any point during the 2000-2002 laker reign. the only reason he "won MVP over shaq" is because shaq was injured. shaq, duncan, kobe, and david robinson (when healthy) were better net impact players according to +/- (they effected their teams scoring more so than iverson did)

https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/2001-npi-rapm

iverson put up a lot of shots. scored a lot of points. but he was inefficient & not as impactful as those guys. the sixers bread & butter was their defense.

ISHGoat

03-05-2015, 04:32 PM

Then why don't they? Then why don't players with better percentages shoot more, if not take every single shot. The percentages are better for them to win?
Scoring is just more than a percentage. It's the ability to create a shot in multiple facets. If AI was just a chucker than he should be easily stopped. How do you stop a chucker at the y or an open gym? You don't think that applies to the NBA? He did it multiple years and teams still couldn't figure out how to stop him.
You should stop the hate and just appreciate

he was easily stopped, or rather, didnt need to be stopped

.425% career shooting percentages = you want him to shoot more as the other team

hateraid

03-05-2015, 04:47 PM

he was easily stopped, or rather, didnt need to be stopped

.425% career shooting percentages = you want him to shoot more as the other team

That is a terrible analysis on how to defend AI. So if a player of his calibre shoots less than 45% you suggest to let him shoot more?

And no, he was not easily stopped, in fact he may have been the hardest PG of all-time to stop

Westbrook is shooting that percentage this year. I guess allow him to shoot when ever he wants? I guess nobody should guard him?

ISHGoat

03-05-2015, 04:48 PM

That is a terrible analysis on how to defend AI. So if a player of his calibre shoots less than 45% you suggest to let him shoot more?

And no, he was not easily stopped, in fact he may have been the hardest PG of all-time to stop

Westbrook is shooting that percentage this year. I guess allow him to shoot when ever he wants? I guess nobody should guard him?

as an opponent, would you rather have westbrook shoot or durant shoot?

mehyaM24

03-05-2015, 04:51 PM

That is a terrible analysis on how to defend AI. So if a player of his calibre shoots less than 45% you suggest to let him shoot more?

And no, he was not easily stopped, in fact he may have been the hardest PG of all-time to stop

Westbrook is shooting that percentage this year. I guess allow him to shoot when ever he wants? I guess nobody should guard him?
not even close. magic & oscar robertson were the toughest to stop because they weren't one dimensional shotjackers.

iverson's net impact doesn't match anything you're saying, btw - net impact in which he effectively impacted his teams' scoring.

hateraid

03-05-2015, 04:53 PM

except iverson was never better than shaq at any point during the 2000-2002 laker reign. the only reason he "won MVP over shaq" is because shaq was injured. shaq, duncan, kobe, and david robinson (when healthy) were better net impact players according to +/- (they effected their teams scoring more so than iverson did)

https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/2001-npi-rapm

iverson put up a lot of shots. scored a lot of points. but he was inefficient & not as impactful as those guys. the sixers bread & butter was their defense.

If he wasn't impactful, how many wins would that Sixer team have had without Iverson? When they had the best record in the league how many wins could a line-up of:

Theo Ratliff
Tyrone Hill
George Lynch
Aaron McKie (replaces AI)
Eric Snow

win? Who are those players? Career bench players who started along side AI when they had the best record in the league

MVP is based on how valuable are you to your team

hateraid

03-05-2015, 04:57 PM

not even close. magic & oscar robertson were the toughest to stop because they weren't one dimensional shotjackers.

iverson's net impact doesn't match anything you're saying, btw - net impact in which he effectively impacted his teams' scoring.

Stats can be cited to support ones argument. What was the % of points did AI score of his teams points? What was the offensive average without AI.

I'll agree Magic is probably the hardest matchup problem of all-time, my argument is AI is the most unstoppable scorer at the PG position

mehyaM24

03-05-2015, 04:59 PM

If he wasn't impactful, how many wins would that Sixer team have had without Iverson when they had the best record in the league how many wins could a line-up of

i never said he didn't impact games brah. i'm saying he never impacted games to the degree the guys i mentioned did. fact.

i don't know how many wins philly get without iverson, but if you replaced iverson with another volume scorer, say, vince carter? not much changes. the sixers had a top defensive-rating the year they went to the finals (their strong suit).

ThickassGlasses

03-05-2015, 05:03 PM

When Goatbrook does it in the playoffs, then we can return to this, until then the edge has to be AI.

Goatbrook is well on his way though, without a doubt.

mehyaM24

03-05-2015, 05:11 PM

Stats can be cited to support ones argument. What was the % of points did AI score of his teams points? What was the offensive average without AI.

i don't have those numbers at hand. you could probably look them up @ bball-ref.

its true that iverson didn't have a ton of help with other go-to scorers, but its also true that when dude put up a lot field goals, and scored a lot of points, the sixers offense remained mediocre. it was on the defensive end (top 5 in that regard) where the sixers made their finals push, especially after acquiring mutombo.

hateraid

03-05-2015, 05:43 PM

i never said he didn't impact games brah. i'm saying he never impacted games to the degree the guys i mentioned did. fact.

i don't know how many wins philly get without iverson, but if you replaced iverson with another volume scorer, say, vince carter? not much changes. the sixers had a top defensive-rating the year they went to the finals (their strong suit).

I highly doubt that. Other than Kobe I don't think any volume scorer would have fit in. Too be able to put scoring pressure for 40 minutes a game, to be a threat to hit game changing shots every time the game winds down. To basically say give the ball to me, I got this. I don't think anyone else other than Kobe, if even, could have carried this team too the success they had.

hateraid

03-05-2015, 05:45 PM

i don't have those numbers at hand. you could probably look them up @ bball-ref.

its true that iverson didn't have a ton of help with other go-to scorers, but its also true that when dude put up a lot field goals, and scored a lot of points, the sixers offense remained mediocre. it was on the defensive end (top 5 in that regard) where the sixers made their finals push, especially after acquiring mutombo.

By all means hands down to the defense, the team in itself would not have been as successful if AI was replaced. Like I've been going on, it's the intangibles that make him who he is.

upside24

03-05-2015, 05:47 PM

You mean forcing usual efficiency.
:roll:

hateraid

03-05-2015, 06:06 PM

lol HES PASSING TO BETTER PLAYERS.

And yea "Westbrook went to the Finals" but he didn't lead a team there. He also didn't do very much at all. IVerson put up 35 ppg and got a W vs one the best record team in NBA playoff history.

Ai was playing over 40 mpg because he had to. I don't punish people for being on the court. That Iverson can play like 43 mpg or 46 in the playoffs is a huge plus to me, especially considering how hard he goes.

I feel like you guys are trolling to really say Westbrook is playing at a higher level than AI right now. That's some pretty ridiculous shit. Do you mean this last 5 games? You know AI has put up some impressive stretches, too.

**** PER also, Iverson was a beast because he could score in the midrange vs multiple people. Even if it was at 41%. When the game is on the line, that's a good percentage.

-Smak

I couldn't agree more

Shih508

03-05-2015, 09:46 PM

If his percentages (FG%, TS%) are obvious much worse, how is he scoring at will?

trust me, Westbrook would have worse career FG% IF he's shooting as much as AI did. And he's now only sitting at 0.8% higher than AI career-wise playing his whole career in a no hand checking era and play alongside with one of greatest scorer of all time, KD.

Let me repeat that again 0.8%.

tgan3

03-05-2015, 09:56 PM

he was easily stopped, or rather, didnt need to be stopped

.425% career shooting percentages = you want him to shoot more as the other team

He was the center of attention on defense and yet was a relentless scorer raining 30 points a game night in night out. With the rules facilitating penetration in todays game he would have easily scored 40-50 easily many nights.

By the way, field goal percentage means sh1t in this context. It is the ability to create a basket (This cannot be measured by stats) that is important and Iverson was second to none in this aspect.

By your analogy, we should pass to Deandre Jordan instead of Iverson for that last second clutch shot to win that game, since his fg% is 71%..we should create a team of Deandre Jordans then...our team field goal would then be 71% and will easily win the championship..u fail to realize that Deandre Jordan field goal % is high because he only selectively puts in second chance points/dunks, and this kind of scoring opportunity does not always present itself. Make a team of 5 Deandres and the team field goal% would drop to 20%.