Is Oscar Robertson overrated?

[Fire Colangelo]

I've never seen him play aside from film, obviously he put up great stats, but is his impact overrated?

He played with the Royals for 10 seasons, only amounted to 50+ wins once, and got out of the first round twice despite having someone like Jerry Lucas (or the 60's equivalent of Kevin Love according to some) in his prime as a 2nd option. Didn't win, or even come close to winning a title until he joined Kareem on the Bucks in 1971.

Yet I see him in most top 20, or even top 15 lists. When pretty much everybody on the top 15 list won a ring as the most important piece (or atleast had deep playoff runs).

Overrated? Not overrated?

[SouBeachTalents]

I've never seen him play aside from film, obviously he put up great stats, but is his impact overrated?

He played with the Royals for 10 seasons, only amounted to 50+ wins once, and got out of the first round twice despite having someone like Jerry Lucas (or the 60's equivalent of Kevin Love according to some) in his prime as a 2nd option. Didn't win, or even come close to winning a title until he joined Kareem on the Bucks in 1971.

Yet I see him in most top 20, or even top 15 lists. When pretty much everybody on the top 15 list won a ring as the first option.

Overrated? Not overrated?

That's not true. Players like West and Dr. J never won as the first option either

[IncarceratedBob]

Nobody alive has seen him play so we have to go strictly by word of mouth and we know how reliable that can be. There's no proof that he averaged a triple double for a season so it's hard for most people to judge him correctly. Personally I think he's the greatest point guard ever but that's only because my dad used to tell me stories about him all the time growing up

[L.Kizzle]

I've never seen him play aside from film, obviously he put up great stats, but is his impact overrated?

He played with the Royals for 10 seasons, only amounted to 50+ wins once, and got out of the first round twice despite having someone like Jerry Lucas (or the 60's equivalent of Kevin Love according to some) in his prime as a 2nd option. Didn't win, or even come close to winning a title until he joined Kareem on the Bucks in 1971.

Yet I see him in most top 20, or even top 15 lists. When pretty much everybody on the top 15 list won a ring as the first option.

Overrated? Not overrated?
Think of T-mac. Now imagine him avg a triple double for ten straight seasons.

[LAZERUSS]

Nobody alive has seen him play so we have to go strictly by word of mouth and we know how reliable that can be. There's no proof that he averaged a triple double for a season so it's hard for most people to judge him correctly. Personally I think he's the greatest point guard ever but that's only because my dad used to tell me stories about him all the time growing up

Statisticians and score-keepers were PAID to produce the statistics of that era. And we have box-scores to prove it.

BTW, Oscar averaged a triple-double in his first SIX seasons...COMBINED.

[IncarceratedBob]

Statisticians and score-keepers were PAID to produce the statistics of that era. And we have box-scores to prove it.

BTW, Oscar averaged a triple-double in his first SIX seasons...COMBINED.
Yeah and people were paid to write the Bible. Doesn't make it fact. Statisticians can be bought. You're preaching to the choir, there's no player I'm taking over Rob personally.

[Fire Colangelo]

That's not true. Players like West and Dr. J never won as the first option either

Dr. J won two titles in the ABA, if we're counting ABA rings. If not, Dr J doesn't belong in the top 15-20.

Jerry West at least came close to winning the title, 9 times. And even during the year he won, it was arguable that he was the first option. 26/4/10 in the RS and 23/5/9 in the Playoffs.

[L.Kizzle]

Dr. J won two titles in the ABA, if we're counting ABA rings. If not, Dr J doesn't belong in the top 15-20.

Jerry West at least came close to winning the title, 9 times. And even during the year he won, it was arguable that he was the first option. 26/4/10 in the RS and 23/5/9 in the Playoffs.
Doc J's 11 season NBA career featured a NBA title, MVP and NBA Finals appearances four times.

[DatAsh]

Dr. J won two titles in the ABA, if we're counting ABA rings. If not, Dr J doesn't belong in the top 15-20.

Jerry West at least came close to winning the title, 9 times. And even during the year he won, it was arguable that he was the first option. 26/4/10 in the RS and 23/5/9 in the Playoffs.

I would say West was the first option.

But Russell, Wilt, Dr. J, and Baylor never really won as first options, and all those guys have an argument for top 15, two of them top 5.

[Fire Colangelo]

Doc J's 11 season NBA career featured a NBA title, MVP and NBA Finals appearances four times.

Impressive as hell.

Though Dwyane Wade, who averaged similar stats to Doc's stats in the NBA along with 3 NBA titles, and 5 NBA Finals appearances is arguable in the top 25 (and his career hasn't even ended yet).

[Fire Colangelo]

I would say West was the first option.

But Russell, Wilt, Dr. J, and Baylor never really won as first options, and all those guys have an argument for top 15, two of them top 5.

You have a point.

I should rephrase my wording a bit. Instead of first option, most won a ring as the most important piece on the team. Wilt and Russell were no doubt the most important piece to their respective title runs.

Baylor, and West at least came close to winning, and had a couple deep playoff runs while Oscar only had one 55+ win season.

[Young X]

If everybody is held to the same standards when it comes to winning except for him, then he's overrated.

People point out Kobe's "sidekick rings" when Oscar's only ring came as a "sidekick" at 32. He also missed the playoffs 3 straight times in his prime and took 10 years to get to the finals. Any player with that on their resume would get sh!tted on today.

[houston]

yes he was

[Marchesk]

Would Magic have made the Royals better during the 60s? That's who Oscar is measured against.

[Marchesk]

He played with the Royals for 10 seasons, only amounted to 50+ wins once, and got out of the first round twice despite having someone like Jerry Lucas (or the 60's equivalent of Kevin Love according to some) in his prime as a 2nd option. Didn't win, or even come close to winning a title until he joined Kareem on the Bucks in 1971.

The Boston Celtics were in his division, and Wilt's teams for most of those years.

But let's ask a different question. If Oscar got to start his career in 69 with Kareem instead, how many titles would he have now?

[greatest-ever]

Whether or not he's overrated depends on where the majority of people rank him. His stats alone pretty much warrant a top 15 spot imo, throw in a ring and that solidifies it. I don't think he has an argument for top 10, i see 12-15 range as reasonable and that's where most people seem to have him. So no i don't think he's overrated unless one is claiming him to be a top 5-7 player.

[L.Kizzle]

Impressive as hell.

Though Dwyane Wade, who averaged similar stats to Doc's stats in the NBA along with 3 NBA titles, and 5 NBA Finals appearances is arguable in the top 25 (and his career hasn't even ended yet).
Only difference is Wade was playing with 2 player greater than him in Shaq and LeBron.

[SouBeachTalents]

Only difference is Wade was playing with 2 player greater than him in Shaq and LeBron.

Shaq was better than Wade during the '05 regular season. '05 playoffs and beyond, Wade was the Heat's best player

[Alan Ogg]

Nobody alive has seen him play so we have to go strictly by word of mouth and we know how reliable that can be. There's no proof that he averaged a triple double for a season so it's hard for most people to judge him correctly. Personally I think he's the greatest point guard ever but that's only because my dad used to tell me stories about him all the time growing up

LOL what? First of all, Oscar is still alive. He's only 76 years old.

[L.Kizzle]

LOL what? First of all, Oscar is still alive. He's only 76 years old.
and Russell
and Cousy
and West
and Pettit
and Baylor
and Kareem
and Hal Greer
and Dave Bing
and Dolph Schayes
and Sam Jones
and Earl Monroe
and Wes Unseld
and Willis Reed
and Bill Bradley
and Calvin Murphy

[Alan Ogg]

The thing that stands out to me is Oscar shot 48.5% for his career which is pretty insane for his position and era.

[Fire Colangelo]

Would Magic have made the Royals better during the 60s? That's who Oscar is measured against.

I don't know, which why I'm asking. For anyone that knows the game a little better, would Magic have made the Royals a little bit better?

I constantly hear LAZ talk about how Jerry Lucas was basically the same type of player as Kevin Love, is that true?

Were his teams just that much inferior?

His accomplishment with the Royals reminds me of Dominique with the Hawks, Adrian Dantley or McGrady (minus the injury) in the sense that they couldn't really do much in the playoffs but put up insane stats. Obviously Oscar's stats are a more impressive on a consistent basis.

Is there even one series where he was completely dominant...?


Whether or not he's overrated depends on where the majority of people rank him. His stats alone pretty much warrant a top 15 spot imo, throw in a ring and that solidifies it. I don't think he has an argument for top 10, i see 12-15 range as reasonable and that's where most people seem to have him. So no i don't think he's overrated unless one is claiming him to be a top 5-7 player.

60s stats though, are no doubt a little bit inflated?

For example, his rebounding stat... Oscar's team in 1961 averaged around 71 total rebounds per game, and Oscar averaged 10. So he grabbed around 14.08% of his team's total rebounds.

If we look at McGrady in 03. The Magic totalled around 41 rebounds per game, and McGrady grabbed 6.5 per game. That translate to Tmac grabbing around 15.85% of his team's total rebounds.

If we look at Westbrook this year. The thunder total around 48 rebounds per game with Westbrook averaging 7 per game. Which translate to 14.58% of his team's total rebounds.

Obviously this isn't the perfect calculation, but keep in mind Westbrook averages 10 minutes less than Oscar. Can we assume that current Westbrook would average a triple double (or a near triple double with less efficiency obviously) had he played in the 60s?

If that's the case, how much are those triple dub averages really worth?

[New World Order]

^ While some of the stats may be inflated, the way assists were judged back in that era was harsher than in today's game (some of today's assists would not be judged as assists in Oscar's era). So in today's game, Oscar would have averaged even more assists.

[Marchesk]

If that's the case, how much are those triple dub averages really worth?

Well, nobody else did it in his era. Wilt comes closest.

[kshutts1]

People like to point to pace, and the incredible minutes that the older players played.. but no one wants to consider how insane their stamina had to be.

In a vacuum, if we extrapolate out Westbrook's stats on a 48min basis, of course he' be ridiculous. But considering a faster pace AND more hours? His efficiency will drop HARD. And he's already hammered for his efficiency now.

And that's just one example.

Oscar is a top 8 player. Period. End of story. A lot of people that saw him play consider him the GOAT, or at least in the conversation. That's good enough for me.

[Psileas]

Is Oscar Robertson overrated?

No, the 60's are underrated. For a supposedly "weak era", a transcendent talent like Oscar should be supposed to be able to win multiple titles, yet, he couldn't even reach the Finals in his prime - and he wasn't always facing the Celtics in the playoffs (hell, he wasn't always even making the playoffs).