The Bucks have been awful with MCW and Noel is balling without him

[chocolatethunder]

Has anyone other than Sixers fans noticed this? MCW looks like the same old MCW but he's in a different uni and Noel has been playing really well and the ball is moving around more on the Sixers sans MCW.

[Dr.J4ever]

Has anyone other than Sixers fans noticed this? MCW looks like the same old MCW but he's in a different uni and Noel has been playing really well and the ball is moving around more on the Sixers sans MCW.

The Bucks are suddenly struggling while the 76ers are playing better offensively(not last night though but overall especially from the perimeter and ball movement).

So Noel is now getting closer to double double figures consistently with steals, blocks, and assists mixed in. He has shown flashes of becoming a possibly dominant interior player, at least defensively. And on offense, what about that FT%? Told you.

[Eric Cartman]

It is a matter of time till Milbuck comes around on MCW.

He's still in the honeymoon face.

[Milbuck]

Anyone who thinks MCW is the reason we're struggling isn't aware of the situation.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Question for sixers fans... of Noel and Embiid who do you see playing the 4 and who do you see playing the 5?

[JerrySeinfeld]

Anyone who thinks MCW is the reason we're struggling isn't aware of the situation.

I don't people think that, they just think that he isn't very good.

Not much different than Brandon Knight I guess :confusedshrug:

[AI09]

Question for sixers fans... of Noel and Embiid who do you see playing the 4 and who do you see playing the 5?

Well Brett brown said he sees Noel as a 5 in the nba many times and Embiid can actually shoot the ball so I'd say Noel at the 5 and Embiid playing the 4 but I can see embiid spending alot of time at the 5 during games with noel resting or if noel gets injured.
EDIT: Both can hold down the paint defensively and Noel can also guard the perimeter well with his long arms and quick feet. I can see either one guarding a 4 or 5 so on defense but on offense if they are both on the floor together I see Noel at C because his jumpshot although improving still needs alot more work

What are your thoughts on Thomas Robinson sixer fans?
He had a double double last night in 15min of playing time and in six games for us he's averaging 8.5 ppg 8.3 rpg in just under 17mpg. He's been our best rebounder and a pleasant surprise offensively even though he made me cringe my teeth a couple times.

[chocolatethunder]

I don't people think that, they just think that he isn't very good.

Not much different than Brandon Knight I guess :confusedshrug:
That's all I'm saying. He sure hasn't been lighting it up in Milwaukee.

The ball is moving so much better on the Sixers though. A lot better.

[chocolatethunder]

Well Brett brown said he sees Noel as a 5 in the nba many times and Embiid can actually shoot the ball so I'd say Noel at the 5 and Embiid playing the 4 but I can see embiid spending alot of time at the 5 during games with noel resting or if noel gets injured.
EDIT: Both can hold down the paint defensively and Noel can also guard the perimeter well with his long arms and quick feet. I can see either one guarding a 4 or 5 so on defense but on offense if they are both on the floor together I see Noel at C because his jumpshot although improving still needs alot more work

What are your thoughts on Thomas Robinson sixer fans?
He had a double double last night in 15min of playing time and in six games for us he's averaging 8.5 ppg 8.3 rpg in just under 17mpg. He's been our best rebounder and a pleasant surprise offensively even though he made me cringe my teeth a couple times.
Noel can guard the 4 for sure. On offense, he doesn't have a chance in hell of being a four. Embiid looks like he could play either on offense but defensively he's a five I'd say.

T Rob has been producing in limited minutes. I don't think that they'll keep him around though just because the Nets will go after him and the Sixers don't need him so they won't get in a bidding war for him. He looks like given the right situation that he can produce.

[christian1923]

How many draft picks does it take to trade for Noel?

[Eric Cartman]

How many draft picks does it take to trade for Noel?

They ain't trading him before they see what they got in Embiid.

But if Embiid turns out beastly, I'd say a top 10 pick and cash.

[AI09]

Anyone who thinks MCW is the reason we're struggling isn't aware of the situation.

I agreethe bucks were struggling before MCW arrived anytime a injured/physically beat up team trades it's best player it's bound to hit some bumps in the road. Although MCW hasn't been that great for them either he's shooting less and at a better percentage due to the fact he has less pressure in Milwaukee and opposing teams don't focus the defense solely on him. His shot is still horrible but hes taking shots he can make but his last couple of games he shot the ball poorly his turnovers are still a problem.

[Milbuck]

That's all I'm saying. He sure hasn't been lighting it up in Milwaukee.

The ball is moving so much better on the Sixers though. A lot better.
That's the thing though, there's a difference between not lighting it up, and flat out sucking.. MCW has been rock solid for us outside of one game. The dude is in a completely different situation, coming off an injury..and still putting up 12/3/5 on 46% FG with great defense (again outside of one weird game where he looked lost). He's had some turnover issues, still isn't a great shooter, but neither of those flaws are nearly as bad as people have been saying..while his defense is miles better than Knight's, and he's shown court vision that Knight couldn't dream of having. He fits what we're doing right now, way more than Knight..he's a better piece going forward and he's doing just fine right now. The rest of our team is the problem, almost none of them are playing like they should aside from Middleton.
I agreethe bucks were struggling before MCW arrived anytime a injured/physically beat up team trades it's best player it's bound to hit some bumps in the road. Although MCW hasn't been that great for them either he's shooting less and at a better percentage due to the fact he has less pressure in Milwaukee and opposing teams don't focus the defense solely on him. His shot is still horrible but hes taking shots he can make but his last couple of games he shot the ball poorly his turnovers are still a problem.
The bolded cannot be stated enough. And it's even worse when the most beat up and close to done players on our team...Zaza and Ersan...keep getting minutes when they're visibly killing us out there. Kidd is so reluctant to hurt feelings that we're putting corpses on the floor for extended minutes. If our team was healthy and played with the effort they usually do (we did against GS...and it was a tight game), no one would be talking about MCW hurting us.

[SourGrapes]

That's the thing though, there's a difference between not lighting it up, and flat out sucking.. MCW has been rock solid for us outside of one game. The dude is in a completely different situation, coming off an injury..and still putting up 12/3/5 on 46% FG with great defense (again outside of one weird game where he looked lost). He's had some turnover issues, still isn't a great shooter, but neither of those flaws are nearly as bad as people have been saying..while his defense is miles better than Knight's, and he's shown court vision that Knight couldn't dream of having. He fits what we're doing right now, way more than Knight..he's a better piece going forward and he's doing just fine right now. The rest of our team is the problem, almost none of them are playing like they should aside from Middleton.
The bolded cannot be stated enough. And it's even worse when the most beat up and close to done players on our team...Zaza and Ersan...keep getting minutes when they're visibly killing us out there. Kidd is so reluctant to hurt feelings that we're putting corpses on the floor for extended minutes. If our team was healthy and played with the effort they usually do (we did against GS...and it was a tight game), no one would be talking about MCW hurting us.

How do you feel about Giannis' play of late? Is he more assertive? What needs to happen with the team?

[GOBB]

Question for sixers fans... of Noel and Embiid who do you see playing the 4 and who do you see playing the 5?

Noel can guard Pfs on defense. Who is the 4 or 5 doesn't matter.


Has anyone other than Sixers fans noticed this? MCW looks like the same old MCW but he's in a different uni and Noel has been playing really well and the ball is moving around more on the Sixers sans MCW.

Surely the Bucks homer here wont notice. He will cite everyone else as the problem while MCW is playing great. :roll:

[chocolatethunder]

That's the thing though, there's a difference between not lighting it up, and flat out sucking.. MCW has been rock solid for us outside of one game. The dude is in a completely different situation, coming off an injury..and still putting up 12/3/5 on 46% FG with great defense (again outside of one weird game where he looked lost). He's had some turnover issues, still isn't a great shooter, but neither of those flaws are nearly as bad as people have been saying..while his defense is miles better than Knight's, and he's shown court vision that Knight couldn't dream of having. He fits what we're doing right now, way more than Knight..he's a better piece going forward and he's doing just fine right now. The rest of our team is the problem, almost none of them are playing like they should aside from Middleton.
The bolded cannot be stated enough. And it's even worse when the most beat up and close to done players on our team...Zaza and Ersan...keep getting minutes when they're visibly killing us out there. Kidd is so reluctant to hurt feelings that we're putting corpses on the floor for extended minutes. If our team was healthy and played with the effort they usually do (we did against GS...and it was a tight game), no one would be talking about MCW hurting us.
Couple of things there. His turnovers will never get better and his 3pt shooting has been awful even worse than it was in philly. He is a huge upgrade definsively but offensviely Knight is a better scorer and they are about equal otherwise. Neither is really pass first and neither can shoot well but MCW shoots even worse than Knight. Trust me, once you have him for a year you'll be sick of him and wonder why he still shoots too much when he can't shoot and why he can't stop turning the ball over. Philly completely rebuilt his jumpshot because it was terrible. Now his form is better and his shot is still crap. You'll see. You're only slightly better off with him and that because of his defense.

[Milbuck]

How do you feel about Giannis' play of late? Is he more assertive? What needs to happen with the team?
He's been fine, a bit inconsistent. He's been dealing with nagging leg discomfort since a bit before the AS break, he's not able to go 100% intensity all the time like he did earlier. The jumper is improving every game though, confidence is growing. Post game is developing nicely as well, but we don't go to it nearly as much as we should.

As for the team...we just need to get healthy and get some rest. Clearly the AS break wasn't enough. Zaza needs to take some time off, as does Ersan. OJ and Dudley need to get healthy. Giannis might need a few days off as well. Plumlee needs more playing time to give Zaza his rest, and because he's just better.


Surely the Bucks homer here wont notice. He will cite everyone else as the problem while MCW is playing great. :roll:
MCW is playing solid ball and the majority of our team IS either hurt or exhausted. You don't know jack shit about our team. Again, just because MCW sucked ass on your team doesn't mean he does on ours. He's been just fine.

[Milbuck]

Couple of things there. His turnovers will never get better and his 3pt shooting has been awful even worse than it was in philly. He is a huge upgrade definsively but offensviely Knight is a better scorer and they are about equal otherwise. Neither is really pass first and neither can shoot well but MCW shoots even worse than Knight. Trust me, once you have him for a year you'll be sick of him and wonder why he still shoots too much when he can't shoot and why he can't stop turning the ball over. Philly completely rebuilt his jumpshot because it was terrible. Now his form is better and his shot is still crap. You'll see. You're only slightly better off with him and that because of his defense.
How are you so confident the turnovers will never get better? He's already at 3 a game, as opposed to 4.2 a game with Philly this year. He's not the safest PG in the world but it's not like he's turning it over every other possession. He's also coming back from an injury, playing in a totally new situation and is essentially learning our team on the fly. His efficiency has been way better than his reputation coming in.

And I completely disagree with the notion that he's not that much better a passer than Knight. MCW has been significantly more pass-first than Knight ever was. I don't really care about the assist totals, going by the eye test it's not even close imho. Knight would routinely spend entire possessions dribbling around and then in the last second chucking a dumb shot or passing it off for a terrible shot for a teammate. And he might be the worst transition player in NBA history. MCW has shown more passing instincts in one week than Knight has ever shown in his Bucks career. And MCW can only go up from here, developing alongside better players and under one of the best PGs of all time.

And his defense is turning our defense into top-tier status. We were great before, but now we're turning into a lock down defending team. There were stretches during that GS team where we made the best offense in the league struggle. It took Curry exploding in the 4th for them to pull away.

[FireDavidKahn]

MCW is a terrible player. No sense in arguing it. He won ROY by volume stats, which is always fools gold.

[Dr.J4ever]

Noel with 17 rebounds and 11 points vs Hawks tonight!:bowdown:

[raprap]

Mcw is average. He's not the pg Jkidd is looking for.

[navy]

Mcw is average. He's not the pg Jkidd is looking for.
Jason Kidd will make him a Jason Kidd Jr

[Milbuck]

MCW with 12/9 on 6-11 shooting with 9 minutes to go in the 4th, great passing and great defense.

Knight with 10/5 on 4-12 shooting, 2nd worst +/- of the game and Cavs rape Suns.

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Dr.J4ever]

What really makes Noel a unique big man are the steals--5 tonight vs. Hawks for the win!

[J Shuttlesworth]

The Wizards :roll: :roll:

[Milbuck]

Mcw is average. He's not the pg Jkidd is looking for.
He's actually exactly what Kidd is looking for. Defense, passing, length, athleticism, unselfishness, hard worker. And he proved it tonight with better passing and better defense than Knight has ever shown in his life...in a W. Meanwhile Knight was doing his typical over dribbling, poor shot selection, bad defense garbage in a blowout loss.

MCW fits everything we're trying to do in Milwaukee, and Phoenix is about to tie its future to a pseudo-PG who adamantly thinks he's a PG.

And did I mention we got a 20 year old promising PG prospect in Ennis, and a solid backup C in Plumlee? :oldlol:

We won this trade and anyone who thinks otherwise has zero clue what they're talking about.

[coin24]

Bucks beasting today:cheers:

i watched the 4th it was quite entertaining:lol

[chocolatethunder]

He's actually exactly what Kidd is looking for. Defense, passing, length, athleticism, unselfishness, hard worker. And he proved it tonight with better passing and better defense than Knight has ever shown in his life...in a W. Meanwhile Knight was doing his typical over dribbling, poor shot selection, bad defense garbage in a blowout loss.

MCW fits everything we're trying to do in Milwaukee, and Phoenix is about to tie its future to a pseudo-PG who adamantly thinks he's a PG.

And did I mention we got a 20 year old promising PG prospect in Ennis, and a solid backup C in Plumlee? :oldlol:

We won this trade and anyone who thinks otherwise has zero clue what they're talking about.

MCW is quite selfish which is why you see Noel playing better in his absence and which is why he and Noel got into a shouting match in a game this year. You know very little of MCW but you'll learn soon enough and then you'll realize that for as shitty as Knight is, MCW is equally as shitty in his own way.

[Milbuck]

MCW is quite selfish which is why you see Noel playing better in his absence and which is why he and Noel got into a shouting match in a game this year. You know very little of MCW but you'll learn soon enough and then you'll realize that for as shitty as Knight is, MCW is equally as shitty in his own way.
Did it ever occur to you that he might have been playing selfish there because of the severe lack of offensive talent around him and lack of direction by the team? We talk about him not giving Noel the ball...I also keep hearing from Sixer fans how incredibly unskilled Noel is offensively, might that have something to do with it?

I don't need to know of MCW's tendencies in Philly, because his situation there was another planet compared to what he's in with us. He has legit talent around him here, a team with a developing culture of hard work and unselfishness, and an exceptional motivational coach who kills bad habits as he sees them. He sees that and his play shows that he buys into it. Believe me when I say...if MCW tries anything stupid, Kidd will bench his ass. He's done it to Giannis and Jabari (before he went down) all year.

The reality is that MCW's vision really is miles ahead of Knight's. You guys can keep telling me it's not, but it is. I'm seeing it right now with the Bucks, he's made passes that Knight couldn't and/or wouldn't make in his wildest dreams. Dude had 7 assists in the first quarter tonight and our offense looked incredible in that stretch. He's been playing solid team ball, and tonight might have been the perfect example of it. He's giving up shots for his teammates possession after possession after possession in a way Knight never did and never will, hence the trade.

[UK2K]

Question for sixers fans... of Noel and Embiid who do you see playing the 4 and who do you see playing the 5?
I say Noel gets traded

[chocolatethunder]

Did it ever occur to you that he might have been playing selfish there because of the severe lack of offensive talent around him and lack of direction by the team? We talk about him not giving Noel the ball...I also keep hearing from Sixer fans how incredibly unskilled Noel is offensively, might that have something to do with it?

I don't need to know of MCW's tendencies in Philly, because his situation there was another planet compared to what he's in with us. He has legit talent around him here, a team with a developing culture of hard work and unselfishness, and an exceptional motivational coach who kills bad habits as he sees them. He sees that and his play shows that he buys into it. Believe me when I say...if MCW tries anything stupid, Kidd will bench his ass. He's done it to Giannis and Jabari (before he went down) all year.

The reality is that MCW's vision really is miles ahead of Knight's. You guys can keep telling me it's not, but it is. I'm seeing it right now with the Bucks, he's made passes that Knight couldn't and/or wouldn't make in his wildest dreams. Dude had 7 assists in the first quarter tonight and our offense looked incredible in that stretch. He's been playing solid team ball, and tonight might have been the perfect example of it. He's giving up shots for his teammates possession after possession after possession in a way Knight never did and never will, hence the trade.
Good luck with that.

[buddha]

you can't look like a bitch and play like a man.

[Arhen]

If I am Minessota, I trade lavine and our first pick of this year to philly for embiid.

Would philly go for it?

[oarabbus]

Anyone who thinks MCW is the reason we're struggling isn't aware of the situation.


He's really not that good, dude.

[SwishSquared]

We won this trade and anyone who thinks otherwise has zero clue what they're talking about.
I'd reserve judgement on that, just to see what Philly does with that LAL pick, even if it doesn't convey this year. I can see why you guys went for MCW + Ennis, but I wonder if you should have gone with Ennis + LAL pick instead and gotten somebody else to be the starting PG. I wonder if MCW's ceiling, even with Kidd developing him, is 2013-2014 Livingston. That's a solid player, but I don't know if he even gets to that level. I want to see him play with Parker (in line-ups with Giannis & Middleton) and hopefully a good 2-way big man. Plumlee is a backup and Henson needs to progress offensively. I'm not critiquing him too much until he plays with the Bucks' most talented offensive players, plus whoever they add this summer. Still a really nice nucleus going forward.

I say Noel gets traded
I wouldn't be shocked if that happens, but I honestly think they'd have to get a guy like Towns in this draft to justify that. I don't see them trading for a G or wing, unless it's an established player. Granted, they'd trade Noel for any superstar. But strictly speaking of a draft night trade, they have a short list imo.

If I am Minessota, I trade lavine and our first pick of this year to philly for embiid.

Would philly go for it?
No, they wouldn't. Lavine has shown flashes, but he's really far away from being a net-positive contributor (he's one of worst guys in league according to RPM). Noel is making a defensive impact and is progressing very well post-MCW trade. Philly would at least consider Noel + OKC pick for Lavine + MIN '15 first rounder imo though.

[Milbuck]

He's really not that good, dude.
Everyone keeps saying this but all I've seen from him is solid play for us. I keep waiting for this dumb, turnover prone, shitty shot selection, poor court vision scrub that everyone keeps painting him as, and all I see is solid play and decent potential from him. He's literally the exact player we need on this team, and his weaknesses are all things that 1) haven't been much of a problem so far, and/or 2) are totally fixable.

I mean, the guy is a 2nd year player coming off an injury, playing in a radically different environment...putting up 12/3/6/2 on 46% FG with good defense, and people are constantly clowning him and blaming him for all of our losses when anyone who has watched the games knows it's not his fault. I mean, is he supposed to average a triple double and the Bucks go on a 20 game winning streak for him to get a fair shake? Meanwhile Knight has been utter garbage with a losing Phoenix team, getting exposed for the over dribbling, shitty defense, poor shot selection pseudo PG he's always been...no one says a word.

MCW is a way, way better option for this team than Knight, both now and going forward. It's just the truth, no matter how many times people want to go on with the tired narrative of MCW being a garbage player.
I'd reserve judgement on that, just to see what Philly does with that LAL pick, even if it doesn't convey this year. I can see why you guys went for MCW + Ennis, but I wonder if you should have gone with Ennis + LAL pick instead and gotten somebody else to be the starting PG. I wonder if MCW's ceiling, even with Kidd developing him, is 2013-2014 Livingston. That's a solid player, but I don't know if he even gets to that level. I want to see him play with Parker (in line-ups with Giannis & Middleton) and hopefully a good 2-way big man. Plumlee is a backup and Henson needs to progress offensively. I'm not critiquing him too much until he plays with the Bucks' most talented offensive players, plus whoever they add this summer. Still a really nice nucleus going forward.
Why though? It's not purely about the players and their games (I'm sure you're aware of the problems I have with Knight as a player and how he fit on this team, so I won't get into it here), it's also about the contract situation.

Had Knight stayed and continued to hero ball his way to his numbers, we would've had to overpay significantly to keep him which would've crippled our future, or let him walk. Instead we get 2 young PGs with years left on their rookie deals to main cap flexibility and assess their progress, and a solid backup C to help out a devastated frontline. The beauty of the trade is that even if MCW fails completely, we got a 20 year old PG prospect in Ennis who is basically a blank slate right now considering how little time he got in Phoenix.

[SwishSquared]

Why though? It's not purely about the players and their games (I'm sure you're aware of the problems I have with Knight as a player and how he fit on this team, so I won't get into it here), it's also about the contract situation.

Had Knight stayed and continued to hero ball his way to his numbers, we would've had to overpay significantly to keep him which would've crippled our future, or let him walk. Instead we get 2 young PGs with years left on their rookie deals to main cap flexibility and assess their progress, and a solid backup C to help out a devastated frontline. The beauty of the trade is that even if MCW fails completely, we got a 20 year old PG prospect in Ennis who is basically a blank slate right now considering how little time he got in Phoenix.
Trust me, man, I agree with you that avoiding (surely) overpaying for Knight this summer was smart. He's not a good enough PG, or player for that matter, to justify the type of contract he wants. He put up good "counting stat" numbers for himself, but the #s that you've posted in several threads show that his stats are inflated and he doesn't improve the play of those around him.

I think you guys "beat" Phoenix in that trade, but Philly may end up the biggest beneficiaries from that LAL pick. That's all I meant by that. I was spit-balling if maybe getting that future Lakers pick + Ennis, while getting another PG + big from available free agents or other trade would have been better long-term play (maybe Nate Robinson or Blatche? Nelson or T-Robinson?). If that pick doesn't convey this year, you maybe could have packaged that with your '15 first round pick to move up to get a legit 2-way big man prospect in draft. Overall I agree, though- getting 2 young PGs on rookie deals + a serviceable big man (still on rookie contract) is not a bad haul at all for a young G that is about to hit RFA and wants Bledsoe-type money.

[Dr.J4ever]

I think what Choc Thunder is saying is that MCW can be very deceptive. He will fill your hearts with hope because he does fill up the stat sheet(including TOs though), and he will look impressive statistically at times. He also plays good defense.

The real question is this: how will an MCW led team eventually do vs. a good defensive team in the Playoffs? A good playoff team will sag off MCW and hurt your own teams offense. Instead of spreading your team's offense, which is highly important in this day and age, he will tend to crowd the defense and pass the ball too late in the shot clock.

He's a terrible shooter from everywhere, including FTs. He's like Rubio, except that he can't pass as efficiently or with as much vision as Ricky. Now, if he doesn't improve, is this the type of guard who can win you a title?

[GOBB]

Milw Bucks are now under .500. :roll: 3-9 with MCW.


MillUpchuck "But but but..."

[Eric Cartman]

My guess was he wouldn't delude himself for this long on MCW.

[Vancouver-Grizz]

Milw Bucks are now under .500. :roll: 3-9 with MCW.


MillUpchuck "But but but..."


dont think it was much to do with having MCW on the team, more like losing Brandon Knight who was a consistent shooter for them

[navy]

MCW is a cancer. The 76ers werent tanking, they just had him on the team.

just kidding, bucks are coming back down to earth. See Wizards.

[GOBB]

dont think it was much to do with having MCW on the team, more like losing Brandon Knight who was a consistent shooter for them

Don't let Millbuck read that. He's going to show you this Brandon Knight chart saying he was more of a detriment then a help. And MCW helps this team in more ways than Knight ever could.

[SwishSquared]

Don't let Millbuck read that. He's going to show you this Brandon Knight chart saying he was more of a detriment then a help. And MCW helps this team in more ways than Knight ever could.I'm not gonna argue MCW vs. Knight but that chart does show Knight's a mediocre guy at setting up others. He's great at bailing out possessions with individual scoring ability. He's not a floor general though.

MCW though is overrated. Still has room to grow but I'm not convinced he'll get there anytime soon.

[Milbuck]

I'm not gonna argue MCW vs. Knight but that chart does show Knight's a mediocre guy at setting up others. He's great at bailing out possessions with individual scoring ability. He's not a floor general though.

MCW though is overrated. Still has room to grow but I'm not convinced he'll get there anytime soon.
The chart explains Knight's game perfectly. He was a rich man's Jerryd Bayless, who by the way also sucks ass and is killing the team in his own fun little way.

It's not like two of our biggest contributors, OJ and Dudley, have been out or playing hurt. The 2nd biggest strength of our team was our bench, and it's absolute trash right now. That has nothing to do with Knight. Our bench went from guys like Dudley, OJ, Bayless, Marshall, etc lighting it up and routinely adding to leads or cutting deficits...to Tyler Ennis, Henson, Bayless (who again now with Knight gone has taken it upon himself to fill the hero ball role), JOB routinely losing leads or widening deficits. Zaza outside of his last game has been close to done for weeks now.

And it doesnt help that this broken down team has had to play teams like Atlanta, Golden State, San Antonio, Memphis, NOLA with Davis going off for 43/10/6, hot Indy and Utah team, etc.

MCW had a bad game last night but it never ceases to amaze me how people are willing to neglect all context with this stuff.

[GOBB]

I'm not gonna argue MCW vs. Knight but that chart does show Knight's a mediocre guy at setting up others. He's great at bailing out possessions with individual scoring ability. He's not a floor general though.

MCW though is overrated. Still has room to grow but I'm not convinced he'll get there anytime soon.

No argument in that regard. But his scoring helped the Bucks no? But a decision needed to be made. Knight RFA are you going to pay him even tho he may not be the kind of PG you want? Or get value in return for him. They did. I just dont think MCW is the kind of PG they want as well. Time will tell tho.

[SwishSquared]

No argument in that regard. But his scoring helped the Bucks no? But a decision needed to be made. Knight RFA are you going to pay him even tho he may not be the kind of PG you want? Or get value in return for him. They did. I just dont think MCW is the kind of PG they want as well. Time will tell tho.From the stuff I've read, he's looking to get max-type money and I wouldn't want to pay him that much. He's a combo guard and his scoring helped the team overachieve this year, although he's not a guy who made any of their key players better. His scoring production has been hard to consistently replicate in his absence, though. I never denied how that ability helped the team, but he didn't help his teammates, if that makes sense.

I personally would have taken Ennis, Plumlee, and the future Lakers pick + taken a guy off the scrap heap to get PG minutes. Imo the 76ers got great value for him. I certainly understand why the Bucks wanted MCW- he has the physical tools to play the type of team defense they're constructing and is still cheap for 2 more years. His shooting will need to improve for that roster to work optimally though, even if/when both Giannis & Jabari improve their Js.

The chart explains Knight's game perfectly. He was a rich man's Jerryd Bayless, who by the way also sucks ass and is killing the team in his own fun little way.

It's not like two of our biggest contributors, OJ and Dudley, have been out or playing hurt. The 2nd biggest strength of our team was our bench, and it's absolute trash right now. That has nothing to do with Knight. Our bench went from guys like Dudley, OJ, Bayless, Marshall, etc lighting it up and routinely adding to leads or cutting deficits...to Tyler Ennis, Henson, Bayless (who again now with Knight gone has taken it upon himself to fill the hero ball role), JOB routinely losing leads or widening deficits. Zaza outside of his last game has been close to done for weeks now.

And it doesnt help that this broken down team has had to play teams like Atlanta, Golden State, San Antonio, Memphis, NOLA with Davis going off for 43/10/6, hot Indy and Utah team, etc.

MCW had a bad game last night but it never ceases to amaze me how people are willing to neglect all context with this stuff.I'm with you man, the bench and depth have been ravaged by injuries, and there's not much to fix that if roster spots are all taken up.

I'm not very high on MCW's offensive upside if his shooting is never sorted, but you guys are just breaking down and it's hard to keep the wheels churning with the lack of decent bodies. Fwiw I wasn't super high on Ennis either going into the draft, but Kidd may mold them into good players. I hate to say "next year will probably be better" in like every Bucks-related thread, but it's kinda true haha. A first round pick, hopefully healthy roster, and some key signings should put the Bucks in a good position to land a mid-pack playoff seed. Even with Middleton's cap hold, you have enough space to add some younger bench pieces so you don't have to depend on guys like Illy, Zaza, and Bayless as much.

One thing about MCW that concerns me is he seems to deal with nagging injuries a lot during the year. Maybe this summer he'll be physically right enough to work on his game, as that shoulder surgery prevented him from working much last offseason.

[Paul George 24]

Noel HAS NO SKILLS

[Jameerthefear]

Noel HAS NO SKILLS
LOL

[Prime_Shaq]

Why is there so much hate for MCW?

[Eric Cartman]

Noel HAS NO SKILLS

Watch a game instead of talking out your ass f*ggot.

Only player top 10 in steals and blocks.

[John Tesh]

Noel is a beast. He would have done well with or without MCW. I'm thinking a lot of his beast has to do with him adapting.

[Joel Embiid]

Bucks da bess

[Milbuck]

Bucks da bess
:dancin :party:

[stalkerforlife]

The MCW experiment has turned out awful for the Bucks. Knight was better.

MCW still has time to grow, though.

[GOBB]

How are you so confident the turnovers will never get better? He's already at 3 a game, as opposed to 4.2 a game with Philly this year. He's not the safest PG in the world but it's not like he's turning it over every other possession. He's also coming back from an injury, playing in a totally new situation and is essentially learning our team on the fly. His efficiency has been way better than his reputation coming in..

:roll: