Horace Grant would be a top 10 player in today's league

[Straight_Ballin]

Sure, back in the 90's he could be someone contained with all the flagrant fouls on him not being called, but in today's game where every touch foul sends you to the line, I don't see any scenario where Grant is not a top 10 player. The guy had so many moves in his arsenal, but was mainly used to defend and rebound, which he did and is a 3 peat champion.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TWVPhBnyZ5s

[J Shuttlesworth]

Yup. First 3 peat bulls were so stacked it's insane. 3 players who would be top 10 in today's league

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Yup. First 3 peat bulls were so stacked it's insane. 3 players who would be top 10 in today's league

3ball stay gettin' slayed.

:lol

[J Shuttlesworth]

3ball stay gettin' slayed.

:lol
Don't forget 3ball said that Pippen is the same league as Durant :applause:

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Don't forget 3ball said that Pippen is the same league as Durant :applause:

:eek:

STACKED.

[plowking]

No wonder Jordan couldn't do shit before he got all this talent.

He is out of my top 10 now. Didn't realize how stacked his teams were.

[navy]

No wonder Jordan couldn't do shit before he got all this talent.

He is out of my top 10 now. Didn't realize how stacked his teams were.
Also had the GOAT coach.

[inclinerator]

goat coach
top 10 player in the league
goat rebounder
a durant type player as his 2nd option


and still had to kill his own father for rings

[Spurs5Rings2014]

goat coach
top 10 player in the league
goat rebounder
a durant type player as his 2nd option


and still had to kill his own father for rings

http://i39.tinypic.com/2ur9l5v.gif

[3ball]

The guy had so many moves in his arsenal, but was mainly used to defend and rebound, which he did and is a 3 peat champion.


horace had literally ZERO moves in his arsenal and was just a play-finisher.

but it's interesting - the top tier of big men in previous eras had their team's entire offense run through them, whereas the top bigs of today's game play more like horace by just finishing plays that the perimeter players create... however, in horace's era, a play-finisher was just that - a play-finisher - a john salley, an otis thorpe, a horace grant... said another way - a stiff.

the reason why stiffs like horace can be top bigs in today's game is because it's easier than ever before for perimeter players to create plays for them - dribble-penetration occurs more than ever before, due to wider driving lanes (via spacing) and new rules designed to open up the middle of the floor and make penetration easier.. again, this is not my interpretation of the new rules - it's the NBA's (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html).

[J Shuttlesworth]

horace had literally ZERO moves in his arsenal and was just a play-finisher.

:roll: We all saw this coming

[ImKobe]

goat coach
top 10 player in the league
goat rebounder
a durant type player as his 2nd option


and still had to kill his own father for rings


No wonder Jordan couldn't do shit before he got all this talent.

He is out of my top 10 now. Didn't realize how stacked his teams were.


http://i.imgur.com/aSGGIwE.gif

[Sarcastic]

Modern era is weaker than I thought if Horace Grant would be top 10.

[Milbuck]

I don't see any scenario where Horace Grant is not a top 10 player.

Yup. First 3 peat bulls were so stacked it's insane. 3 players who would be top 10 in today's league

:eek:

STACKED.

No wonder Jordan couldn't do shit before he got all this talent.

He is out of my top 10 now. Didn't realize how stacked his teams were.

Also had the GOAT coach.

goat coach
top 10 player in the league
goat rebounder
a durant type player as his 2nd option


and still had to kill his own father for rings

http://i.imgur.com/90U6Oi4.gif
Sounds about right :oldlol:

[plowking]

Sounds about right :oldlol:

:oldlol:

That gif killed me. :oldlol:

[IncarceratedBob]

Horace Grant was basically the Gasol Brothers merged into one player, it's insane

[97 bulls]

horace had literally ZERO moves in his arsenal and was just a play-finisher.

but it's interesting - the top tier of big men in previous eras had their team's entire offense run through them, whereas the top bigs of today's game play more like horace by just finishing plays that the perimeter players create... however, in horace's era, a play-finisher was just that - a play-finisher - a john salley, an otis thorpe, a horace grant... said another way - a stiff.

the reason why stiffs like horace can be top bigs in today's game is because it's easier than ever before for perimeter players to create plays for them - dribble-penetration occurs more than ever before, due to wider driving lanes (via spacing) and new rules designed to open up the middle of the floor and make penetration easier.. again, this is not my interpretation of the new rules - it's the NBA's (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html).
Wow. I dont believe you just called Thorpe, Salley, and.especially Horace Grant a stiff.

Let me ask you a question.........do you feel the Bulls would've won without Grant? And mind you not replace him. WITHOUT him

[OldSchoolBBall]

So a 12-14 pt/9-10 reb player would be a top 10 player in today's league? Tells you how sh!t today's league is, then. :oldlol:

[1987_Lakers]

Ya, a guy who made the All-star team 1 time in his 17 years in the NBA would be top 10 in today's league.:oldlol:

[iamgine]

Sure, back in the 90's he could be someone contained with all the flagrant fouls on him not being called, but in today's game where every touch foul sends you to the line, I don't see any scenario where Grant is not a top 10 player. The guy had so many moves in his arsenal, but was mainly used to defend and rebound, which he did and is a 3 peat champion.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TWVPhBnyZ5s
People think Grant was just a role player. How important was Chris Bosh in Lebron/Wade/Bosh era...that's how important Horace Grant was. He was a significant part of what made the Bulls great.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

In no order:

LeBron
Durant
Curry
Westbrook
Paul

Davis
Harden
Aldridge
Griffin
Dirk

All WAY better. GTFO gramps.

[iamgine]

Agreed he won't be top 10...he'll maybe be around Greg Monroe/Zach Randolph level.

[warriorfan]

Yo Lebron Stans, this just in, 90's bulls could of been loaded with the entire dream team but guess what?














Jordan still better


:yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy:

[Heavincent]

So a 12-14 pt/9-10 reb player would be a top 10 player in today's league? Tells you how sh!t today's league is, then. :oldlol:

No, he wouldn't. Not even close.

[TheMan]

No wonder Jordan couldn't do shit before he got all this talent.

He is out of my top 10 now. Didn't realize how stacked his teams were.
Or another way to look at it is the 90s having more top tier talent than today because Grant was nowhere near a top 10 player in the 90s. Hell, he wasn't even a top 5 PF...

Today = weak era

[Round Mound]

He would be a very good role player. He was one of the best defensive pfs and a solid rebounder. Offensively he wasnt that good but he was a fine role player.

[Heavincent]

So OP says Grant would be a top 10 player and the nostalgia freaks just roll with it? "ROFL weak era" What the hell are you guys talking about? He wouldn't be anywhere near the top 10 in today's game.




In no order:

LeBron
Durant
Curry
Westbrook
Paul

Davis
Harden
Aldridge
Griffin
Dirk

All WAY better. GTFO gramps.

Not to mention:

Klay Thompson
Kyrie Irving
Damian Lillard
Marc Gasol
Zach Randolph
Paul Milsap
Al Horford
Pau Gasol
Kevin Love
Monta Ellis
Paul George
Tim Duncan
DeMarcus Cousins
John Wall
Kawhi Leonard

[RoundMoundOfReb]

So OP says Grant would be a top 10 player and the nostalgia freaks just roll with it? "ROFL weak era" What the hell are you guys talking about? He wouldn't be anywhere near the top 10 in today's game.





Not to mention:

Klay Thompson
Kyrie Irving
Damian Lillard
Marc Gasol
Zach Randolph
Paul Milsap
Al Horford
Pau Gasol
Kevin Love
Monta Ellis
Paul George
Tim Duncan
DeMarcus Cousins
John Wall
Kawhi Leonard

Def. I just listed the first 10 names that came to mind. In reality you could list like 30 players easily. Horace Grant is like Serge Ibaka level...maybe a tad better but same tier.

[TheMan]

So OP says Grant would be a top 10 player and the nostalgia freaks just roll with it? "ROFL weak era" What the hell are you guys talking about? He wouldn't be anywhere near the top 10 in today's game.





Not to mention:

Klay Thompson
Kyrie Irving
Damian Lillard
Marc Gasol
Zach Randolph
Paul Milsap
Al Horford
Pau Gasol
Kevin Love
Monta Ellis
Paul George
Tim Duncan
DeMarcus Cousins
John Wall
Kawhi Leonard
Dude, we're just trolling the LeStan clowns who are always parroting the "MJ had the most stacked team ever" BS. Horace isn't a top player today and he wasn't back then either. He was a nice role player. Put Charles Oakley in his place and the Bulls are still winning titles.

[LeBird]

He would be amongst the best 3rd options but probably not top 10.

Grant for those Bulls teams was necessary. His rebounding presence was critical as that is the one area the Bulls struggled with and where Jordan couldn't make up the difference. It's why they also struggled when they had let him go and didn't have Rodman.

Rodman comes in as the GOAT rebounder and records start tumbling.

[Height Freak]

Not top 10, but top 25 certainly. He was a very disciplined player both on offense and defense and helped tremendously on team cohesion.

Very underrated player throughout his career, certainly better than Otis Thorpe, John Salley, A.C. Green and other real role players from the 90's.

[SugarHill]

Jordan and older era guys are honestly just as deluded if not more than the worst LeBron/Kobe stans

[Legends66NBA7]

Sure, back in the 90's he could be someone contained with all the flagrant fouls on him not being called, but in today's game where every touch foul sends you to the line, I don't see any scenario where Grant is not a top 10 player. The guy had so many moves in his arsenal, but was mainly used to defend and rebound, which he did and is a 3 peat champion.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TWVPhBnyZ5s

Do this:

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/3553091/seppuku-o.gif

[jayfan]

Lol. Horace Grant was a decent role player. That's about it. Didn't scare a sole.





.

[Roundball_Rock]

horace had literally ZERO moves in his arsenal and was just a play-finisher.
.

:coleman:

Grant had a very good mid-range jumper.


Let me ask you a question.........do you feel the Bulls would've won without Grant? And mind you not replace him. WITHOUT him

We saw Grant's value. When he left the Bulls went from a 55 win team that contending for the #1 seed to a 45 win team battling for 5th. It is a historical fact that the Bulls actually declined more when they lost Grant than when they lost Jordan.


So OP says Grant would be a top 10 player and the nostalgia freaks just roll with it? "ROFL weak era" What the hell are you guys talking about? He wouldn't be anywhere near the top 10 in today's game.

Exactly. He would be today what he was then: a top 25-30 player in his prime who was an excellent defender and very good rebounder. His roles were vital. It is no coincidence the worst year Chicago had from 1989-1998 happened to be the one year it did not have a rebounding PF who could play defense.


Grant for those Bulls teams was necessary. His rebounding presence was critical as that is the one area the Bulls struggled with and where Jordan couldn't make up the difference. It's why they also struggled when they had let him go and didn't have Rodman.

Rodman comes in as the GOAT rebounder and records start tumbling.

Yup. They were so desperate they were willing to gamble on Rodman, who was so toxic at the time all the Spurs could get to unload him was a backup center. It worked magnificently but the fact that even took the gamble showed how desperate they were after Orlando exposes those holes in the ECSF--ironically in large part due to their PF: Horace Grant.

[KobesFinger]

Lol. Horace Grant was a decent role player. That's about it. Didn't scare a sole.





.

The bottoms of peoples' shoes don't tend to experience fear

[Straight_Ballin]

:roll:
So a 12-14 pt/9-10 reb player would be a top 10 player in today's league? Tells you how sh!t today's league is, then. :oldlol:

He was competing for shots with Jordan and Pippen with Jackson limiting his shot attempts. He was basically Ben Wallace on D. As a first option in today's soft league he'd be 25-10 easy.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:roll:

He was competing for shots with Jordan and Pippen with Jackson limiting his shot attempts. He was basically Ben Wallace on D. As a first option in today's soft league he'd be 25-10 easy.
No he wasn't. And no he wouldn't.

[Straight_Ballin]

No he wasn't. And no he wouldn't.

He most certainly was. Watch the vid I posted at 47 sec. He's doing the shake on Barkley scoring like it's nothing. He would destroy the opposition with his back to the basket, but most of the time he would pass it back out to MJ. Jackson didn't need Grant to score because he had Jordan and Pippen on the team.

Horace going to work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMErM4RdGz8

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He most certainly was. Watch the vid I posted at 47 sec. He's doing the shake on Barkley scoring like it's nothing. He would destroy the opposition with his back to the basket, but most of the time he would pass it back out to MJ. Jackson didn't need Grant to score because he had Jordan and Pippen on the team.

Horace going to work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMErM4RdGz8
I don't need YT links. I watched him and the Bulls play live.

I'm actually referring to your drivel about him "equaling" Ben Wallace on defense. That is retarded. The simple fact you believe guy would put up 25/10 in this era means you went full retard.

Never go full retard.

[Straight_Ballin]

I don't need YT links. I watched him and the Bulls play live.

I'm actually referring to your drivel about him "equaling" Ben Wallace on defense. That is retarded. The simple fact you believe guy would put up 26/10 in this era means you went full retard.

If you watched him and the Bulls play live as I did and also watch current NBA, then you should know what I'm talking about. On a team where he doesn't have the greatest 1/2 punch in Jordan/Pippen in today's soft era, Grant would be a top 10-15 player, and that's being generous.

[Soundwave]

:coleman:

Grant had a very good mid-range jumper.



We saw Grant's value. When he left the Bulls went from a 55 win team that contending for the #1 seed to a 45 win team battling for 5th. It is a historical fact that the Bulls actually declined more when they lost Grant than when they lost Jordan.



Exactly. He would be today what he was then: a top 25-30 player in his prime who was an excellent defender and very good rebounder. His roles were vital. It is no coincidence the worst year Chicago had from 1989-1998 happened to be the one year it did not have a rebounding PF who could play defense.



Yup. They were so desperate they were willing to gamble on Rodman, who was so toxic at the time all the Spurs could get to unload him was a backup center. It worked magnificently but the fact that even took the gamble showed how desperate they were after Orlando exposes those holes in the ECSF--ironically in large part due to their PF: Horace Grant.

Well the Bulls always had sh*t center depth/production. Kinda hard to get by with poor play from both your C and PF positions at the same time.

Still I think if Jordan was in better basketball form and had more time to play with the Bulls that season going into the playoffs, who knows, they might've even beaten Orlando that year.

Game 1 they had on a silver platter, that was just a result of the Jordan being out of sync. Of course it would make sweeping Orlando the following season that much sweeter.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

If you watched him and the Bulls play live as I did and also watch current NBA, then you should know what I'm talking about. On a team where he doesn't have the greatest 1/2 punch in Jordan/Pippen in today's soft era, Grant would be a top 10-15 player, and that's being generous.
That's the problem. You don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

[Dro]

Can't believe people are actually taking the thread serious.......

[Hey Yo]

Can't believe people are actually taking the thread serious.......
Thats because the OP is serious and that dumb.

[Roundball_Rock]

If you watched him and the Bulls play live as I did and also watch current NBA, then you should know what I'm talking about. On a team where he doesn't have the greatest 1/2 punch in Jordan/Pippen in today's soft era, Grant would be a top 10-15 player, and that's being generous.


Grant at his statistical peak was a 15/11 player--and there was no Jordan there. He was the second best player on a contender. He was a good player, a top 25-30 type but he was never a top 10-15 caliber player and would not be in any era.

[Kobe_6/8]

The bottoms of peoples' shoes don't tend to experience fear

http://media.giphy.com/media/126TiS9oUufjwc/giphy.gif

[Kvnzhangyay]

He would be a very good role player. He was one of the best defensive pfs and a solid rebounder. Offensively he wasnt that good but he was a fine role player.

Anyone else think he reminds u of Taj Gibson a little bit? Maybe better at shooting though

[aj1987]

OP getting REKT by every stanbase in this thread. :oldlol:

[AirFederer]

He would be a very good role player. He was one of the best defensive pfs and a solid rebounder. Offensively he wasnt that good but he was a fine role player.

This. I hate all those agenda retards :facepalm

[AirFederer]

Anyone else think he reminds u of Taj Gibson a little bit? Maybe better at shooting though

Yes!! Nailed it!

[Mr Feeny]

This. I hate all those agenda retards :facepalm
Agree. Bosh, L.A. , Gasol, Blake and Odom are all better. Those of us who watched Grant know not to overrate him. You can tell folk's ages by their responses sometimes.

[diamenz]

probably so - grant was beast. it just goes to show how strong the league was back then.

[superteamtheory]

top 10 is going way way too far...

he could be a legit allstar tho just like he was. and like Andre Iguodala, if you can be named an all-star at all, it means you had some comparable level of talent in other years also..

[The_Pharcyde]

goat coach
top 10 player in the league
goat rebounder
a durant type player as his 2nd option


and still had to kill his own father for rings


All bball aside, do you realize what you're saying about another random guy?

That's someone's dad that you are saying that about

Like I get the trolling and everything but cmon this is just disrespectful on a human level and especially embarrassing because those all results because of you liking a different player more

Weirdo

[3ball]

top 10 is going way way too far...


Exactly - Horace Grant was an 11/8 player FOR HIS ENTIRE CAREER

11/8 were his averages from 1988-1993 alongside MJ in the regular season and playoffs and also during the championship years only from 1991-1993.

If Horace never played with MJ, he'd just be another of the 10,497 players who are 11/8 that we've never heard of... Horace says so HIMSELF:


"If it wasn't for MJ, I don't think I'd be sitting here right now. I mean, would've had a decent career, but for a leader like that to lead you to 3 championships..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_aYOQVWSCY&t=14m44s





he could be a legit allstar tho

Horace Grant was a 1-time all-star.. I believe he was an alternate.. His HOF equity is exactly zero... He will never sniff the HOF.

He certainly can't be included in the class of HOF teammates that Magic, Bird, Lebron, Duncan and Kobe had - Pippen belongs with this group, but not Horace:

HOF's McHale/Parish/DJ
HOF's Kareem/Worthy
HOF's Wade/Bosh/Allen
HOF's Parker/Ginobili/Kawhi
HOF's Shaq's Kobe or Kobe's Shaq


Again, Pippen belongs in this group, but it would be ridiculous to include Grant in this group... Which begs the question - how the hell did MJ have the best career out of everyone with JUST PIPPEN?

[ShawkFactory]

Exactly - Horace Grant was an 11/8 player FOR HIS ENTIRE CAREER

11/8 were his averages from 1988-1993 alongside MJ in the regular season and playoffs and also during the championship years only from 1991-1993.

If Horace never played with MJ, he'd just be another of the 10,497 players who are 11/8 that we've never heard of... Horace says so HIMSELF:


"If it wasn't for MJ, I don't think I'd be sitting here right now. I mean, would've had a decent career, but for a leader like that to lead you to 3 championships..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_aYOQVWSCY&t=14m44s


Horace Grant was a 1-time all-star.. I believe he was an alternate.. His HOF equity is exactly zero... He will never sniff the HOF.

He certainly can't be included in the class of HOF teammates that Magic, Bird, Lebron, Duncan and Kobe had - Pippen belongs with this group, but not Horace:

HOF's McHale/Parish/DJ
HOF's Kareem/Worthy
HOF's Wade/Bosh/Allen
HOF's Parker/Ginobili/Kawhi
HOF's Shaq's Kobe or Kobe's Shaq


Again, Pippen belongs in this group, but it would be ridiculous to include Grant in this group... Which begs the question - how the hell did MJ have the best career out of everyone with JUST PIPPEN?
You include Ray Allen (again...despite being proven a jackass for doing so) but can't include Grant? Yea...ok..

[TheMan]

Where's LAZ? He's always going on and on about how a HoGrant was an elite PF:oldlol:

[AnaheimLakers24]

goat coach
top 10 player in the league
goat rebounder
a durant type player as his 2nd option


and still had to kill his own father for rings
Bron wpuld do the same if he even had a dad who cared about him :oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

Where's LAZ? He's always going on and on about how a HoGrant was an elite PF:oldlol:

'91-95 Grant >>>> '11-15 Bosh.


Furthermore, '91-95 Pippen-Grant >>>> '11-15 Wade-Bosh.

Not even close my friend.

[eeeeeebro]

Yup. First 3 peat bulls were so stacked it's insane. 3 players who would be top 10 in today's league

yep we had GOAT and GOAT teams

[eeeeeebro]

grant is the perfect powerforward. HE played his role well OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS PUT BACK DUNKS WITH A GREAT JUMPER....

[warriorfan]

Exactly - Horace Grant was an 11/8 player FOR HIS ENTIRE CAREER

11/8 were his averages from 1988-1993 alongside MJ in the regular season and playoffs and also during the championship years only from 1991-1993.

If Horace never played with MJ, he'd just be another of the 10,497 players who are 11/8 that we've never heard of... Horace says so HIMSELF:


"If it wasn't for MJ, I don't think I'd be sitting here right now. I mean, would've had a decent career, but for a leader like that to lead you to 3 championships..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_aYOQVWSCY&t=14m44s


Horace Grant was a 1-time all-star.. I believe he was an alternate.. His HOF equity is exactly zero... He will never sniff the HOF.

He certainly can't be included in the class of HOF teammates that Magic, Bird, Lebron, Duncan and Kobe had - Pippen belongs with this group, but not Horace:

HOF's McHale/Parish/DJ
HOF's Kareem/Worthy
HOF's Wade/Bosh/Allen
HOF's Parker/Ginobili/Kawhi
HOF's Shaq's Kobe or Kobe's Shaq


Again, Pippen belongs in this group, but it would be ridiculous to include Grant in this group... Which begs the question - how the hell did MJ have the best career out of everyone with JUST PIPPEN?


Most "Alphas" need 2 fellow Hall of Fame teammates to win a championship. Alpha Male Curry won the championship with zero Hall of Fame or future Hall of Fame players. :applause:

[3ball]

Most "Alphas" need 2 fellow Hall of Fame teammates to win a championship. Alpha Male Curry won the championship with zero Hall of Fame or future Hall of Fame players. :applause:
Should've won MVP hands-down.

In Iggy's case - he' solid, but I'm not sure anyone has ever won the MVP with only 16/6/4 while playing the same defense that the conference finals and 2nd Round opponents played (Lebron shot the same against them - 39.9% against CHI and 43.8% against ATL)

[warriorfan]

Should've won MVP hands-down.

In Iggy's case - he' solid, but I'm not sure anyone has ever won the MVP with only 16/6/4 while playing the same defense that the conference finals and 2nd Round opponents played (Lebron shot the same against them - 39.9% against CHI and 43.8% against ATL)

Agreed on all points. Voters went for the hipster pick and ended up outsmarting themselves. Will go down as a "what the ****?" in NBA history.

[RidonKs]

one thing for sure, if horace grant still played, even if it was young vicious horace grant, he would be supremely underappreciated by ish

[midatlantic09]

If that's the case, the quality of NBA basketball today is awful.

[LAZERUSS]

Grant at his statistical peak was a 15/11 player--and there was no Jordan there. He was the second best player on a contender. He was a good player, a top 25-30 type but he was never a top 10-15 caliber player and would not be in any era.

Grant's IMPACT went well beyond his stat-line.

From '91 thru '95, he averaged a 14-10 .550 FG%. And in his biggest series, he was clutch.

For instance, MJ couldn't beat the Bad Boys until '91 (of course, Detroit was crumbling by that time anyway.) In the '91 ECF's, Grant hung a 14-8 .690 FG% series (and Pippen put up a 22-8-5-3-2 series.) Then Grant punished the Laker front-line in the Finals with a 15-8 .627 Finals.

And, of course, Jordan got to witness first-hand just how great Grant was, when in the '95 ECSF's, Grant carried the Magic past MJ's Bulls with an 18-11 .647 series...

thanks to Jlip for this BTW...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=357166

Even Shaq acknowledge that it was GRANT who was that series MVP...

[andgar923]

And the bottom line...

Grant was a WINNER. In his rookie season, the Bulls improved from a 40-42 team to 50-32. When Jordan took the '94 season off, the Bulls "declined" from a 57-25 record all the way down to a 55-27 mark. Then Grant signed with the Magic, and they improved from 50-32 to 57-25 (and then 60-22.)

How about Bosh's impact with Lebron? He was a career loser before Lebron, and after Lebron left Miami... a 22-30 record.

Grant from '91 thru '95 was far greater than Bosh from '11 thru '15.

Same with Grant and Pippen. Those two combined, were considerably better from '19 thru '95, than Wade'Bosh from '11 thru '15.

If it wasn't any more clear, now it is.

[Blue&Orange]

Jerome James would be a top10 player today.

[Blue&Orange]

how about Chris Copeland?

Knicks were 36-30, then they brought Copeland in and they went 54-24, mind you Knicks were ravaged by injuries that year and still 54 wins with copeland, then he leaves and Knicks go 37-45.

Nobody can deny Chris Copeland have more impact on teams than Michael Jordan.

[G-train]

He'd probably be a fringe allstar like his peak in the 90's.
It was a different game then though, more mid range jumpshots, and he excelled in the fastbreak game too.
Maybe a taller Faried with better D and good midrange shot.

[MJistheGOAT]

Not so bad as "another of the 10,497 players who are 11/8 that we've never heard of"

Not as good as "light years over Bosh" or making an impact of 20 games on the Bulls.

He was a perfect complement for 90-94 Bulls and 95-96 Magic (Reb, D, finishing under the rim).

Bulls as a team were far superior to Heatles, not in superstar power but as a team, yes.

[G-train]

Chris Bosh is significantly better player then Horace Grant.
Bosh is a superstar scoring forward/centre. Absolutely elite scorer.
At Miami, he has also become a good defender, and just a solid rebounder.

Horace Grant was not 25% of Bosh on offence, and the gap with defence and rebounding doesn't make up for that at all.

In summary, I would classify Bosh as a 10 time allstar player you can build a team around, and Grant is a elite role player that can support a player like that.

[G-train]

Add to that, the Bulls team was built with roles in mind.
Pat Riley saw an opportunity to sign 3 stars, and Bosh lessened his role to make it work better.
He played down to the number 3 role. Grant was a number 3/4 role by design.

[TheMan]

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Grant's IMPACT went well beyond his stat-line.

From '91 thru '95, he averaged a 14-10 .550 FG%. And in his biggest series, he was clutch.

For instance, MJ couldn't beat the Bad Boys until '91 (of course, Detroit was crumbling by that time anyway.) In the '91 ECF's, Grant hung a 14-8 .690 FG% series (and Pippen put up a 22-8-5-3-2 series.) Then Grant punished the Laker front-line in the Finals with a 15-8 .627 Finals.

And, of course, Jordan got to witness first-hand just how great Grant was, when in the '95 ECSF's, Grant carried the Magic past MJ's Bulls with an 18-11 .647 series...

thanks to Jlip for this BTW...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=357166

L

Even Shaq acknowledge that it was GRANT who was that series MVP...

[LAZERUSS]

Yup, it was ALL because of Horace Grant that the Bulls first threepeated:rolleyes:
Fvcking media and NBA fans fans with an agenda thinking MJ was the Bulls best player when clearly it was Grant...LAZ exposing the big lie :applause:

It should be Horace Grant in the GOAT conversation, not MJ :banghead:

Thank you LAZ for helping expose MJ as a fraud :bowdown: Dude basically piggybacked Grant and Pippen to his three titles, those three FMVPs are as fake as two dollar bills :mad:

Nice try.

BUT, without an ELITE PF in his SIX title runs...we know that he didn't win even ONE ring.

Of course Grant made the Magic into title contenders the very next season after he left Chicago. And none other than Jordan got to witness just good Grant was, when Horace hung an 18-11 .647 series on his Bulls, all while leading the Magic to a series win in the ECSF's.

And who knows how his 60-22 Magic would have fared in '96 had Grant not been injured in game one of the ECF's. The Magic were 7-1 in that post-season, when Grant was injured. Coming into the ECF's, Horace had put up a staggering 17-12-.656 FG% stat-line in his first eight playoff games. And not only that, but he and Rodman went at it three times in the '95-96 season, and Grant averaged 13.7 ppg, 9.0 rpg, and shot .567 against Dennis (Rodman averaged 6.0 ppg, 16.3 rpg, and shot .389 against Horace.)

And a washed up Grant also contributed to a Laker title in 2001, as well.