Fact: Today's league is soft

[Straight_Ballin]

All evidence points to the fact that today's league is soft and if Jordan played in today's league, he would dominate. In the 80's and part of the 90's, players would do all they could to foul you and when you got hit with a hard foul which is now by today's standards a flagrant, you just got right back up, shot your foul shots, and kept playing. Amazing that even with all this going on, Jordan still dominated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yyknR7ltkg

This is why players who played in the 80's and 90's will always be more respected. They played before rule changes watered down the game. They didn't play in a SOFT era. Trying to score on someone that can hand check you is much more difficult than scoring on someone in today's game where hand checking in not allowed. In an attempt to save face, the NBA has tried to play the card of "well, we now allow zone defense"
What a joke.

For generations, the key to playing great team defense in the NBA was simple: having a great center. The better a team is at protecting its basket, the better its defense should be. It used to be that you wanted to get an open 15-foot jump shot. Now that’s what defenses will concede because everyone wants to shoot threes and flop all over the place and complain about touch fouls. These days when someone puts in extra work at the gym or tries to better himself, he's labeled "a tryhard". :lol Only in a soft era such as today's era would such a term be even remotely acceptable.

Thank goodness I got to watch the game back when it was pure. Hard to not downplay any player of today's accomplishments when they are not playing the game in it's purest form and playing in a soft league that doesn't even contain a true center.

"but it's all we have"

I get it, but just know that it's soft and not pure compared to what it once was.

http://basket-infos.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Michael-Jordan-Bill-Laimbeer-flagrant-foul.jpg

https://readjack.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/thomasrodmanmugjordan2.jpg?w=214

http://33.media.tumblr.com/c6b0e578084c0897e5523414e08c2a1b/tumblr_mkclwuhesD1r0d93ro1_500.jpg

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ld62maq5LZ1qdkzha.jpg

[Showtime80']

Just check out these videos and call me when you EVER see Lebron, Kobe, Westbrook or Durant get the attention and beatings that Jordan took here!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjatwXrtIsU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLSvXQaYWqE

[Straight_Ballin]

Just check out these videos and call me when you EVER see Lebron, Kobe, Westbrook or Durant get the attention and beatings that Jordan took here!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjatwXrtIsU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLSvXQaYWqE

Which is why when Players like Lebron, Kobe, Westbrook or Durant get praise, it's laughable because it's all being done in a soft era. Back then if you miss a block, just stick you leg out and kick him in the face as seen in 3:38 in the first vid.

[Im Still Ballin]

Jordan stans are LITERALLY the worst of all time. Worse than Kobe stans.

[Im Still Ballin]

Let's counter their documented rule changes arguments with words like 'Physical' and 'soft'

Lmao.

[Roundball_Rock]

I never understood why so many people glorify thuggery. Basketball is not football where crashing into other players is part of the game. The game is better for eliminating those kind of tactics. Slamming someone to the ground is not a skill. :oldlol: As Phil Jackson said, the Knicks could not beat the Bulls playing basketball so they had to resort to such tactics.

Anyone else think the OP=an alt for 3ball (3ball itself likely is an alt account)?

[KobesFinger]

Flagrant fouls =/= good defence

[Bless Mathews]

The league is soft as baby poop today compared to 80' s and 90's.

Night and day.

A good ole hard fouls back them is now a flagrant and a suspension.

Smh.

Jordan would average 35-40 EASY.

[Soundwave]

Basketball in general is kind of a soft game. If you want to watch a physical sport with tough athletes, watch football or hockey.

But yeah you can't get away with some of the stuff from the 70s/80s today.

The Bad Boy Pistons wouldn't be able to play that style today. I'm surprised David Stern even allowed it in the late 80s.

[Roundball_Rock]

Flagrant fouls =/= good defence

Exactly. What is with this nostalgia for flagrant fouls? That is not good basketball.

[Hey Yo]

[QUOTE=Straight_Ballin]All evidence points to the fact that today's league is soft and if Jordan played in today's league, he would dominate. In the 80's and part of the 90's, players would do all they could to foul you and when you got hit with a hard foul which is now by today's standards a flagrant, you just got right back up, shot your foul shots, and kept playing. Amazing that even with all this going on, Jordan still dominated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yyknR7ltkg

This is why players who played in the 80's and 90's will always be more respected. They played before rule changes watered down the game. They didn't play in a SOFT era. Trying to score on someone that can hand check you is much more difficult than scoring on someone in today's game where hand checking in not allowed. In an attempt to save face, the NBA has tried to play the card of "well, we now allow zone defense"
What a joke.

For generations, the key to playing great team defense in the NBA was simple: having a great center. The better a team is at protecting its basket, the better its defense should be. It used to be that you wanted to get an open 15-foot jump shot. Now that

[Straight_Ballin]

Basketball in general is kind of a soft game. If you want to watch a physical sport with tough athletes, watch football or hockey.

But yeah you can't get away with some of the stuff from the 70s/80s today.

The Bad Boy Pistons wouldn't be able to play that style today. I'm surprised David Stern even allowed it in the late 80s.

Funny how it was never a problem back then (accepted as norm), but yet now when soft fans watch it and compare it to today's game, they yell "too physical! We would rather watch acting and flopping!" :facepalm

Soft mindset gonna be soft.

Generation Z kids demand bron get respected for playing in a soft ass era THAT HAS NO TRUE CENTER!. :lol

[iamgine]

:lol OP trollin hard.

[Showtime80']

Just to be clear, I hated Michael Jordan growing up, I was and will always be a Lakers/Magic Johnson guy all the way. However, you have to give it up to MJ for the onslought he suffered at the hands of those Pistons teams and he still kept after it time and time again until he conquered. That's why those superstars from the 80's will ALWAYS be held a level above the guys that came after, they had to deal with an element of true DANGER that guys now don't have to worry about.

I agree that the all out thuggery of a team like the 90's Knicks who were not even 1/5 of the team the Bad Boys were is kind of pointless and ridiculous to a certain extent but what the league has done is TOTALLY NEUTER the edge that NBA games use to have back in the day.

There are no TRUE BAD BLOOD rivalries in the NBA anymore and that's sad. That bitterness and DANGER that the old Sixers-Celtics, Pistons-Celtics, Celtics- Lakers or Lakers-Pistons is gone from the game and that is not good.

[Im Still Ballin]

This thread has been Troll stamped

Leave this one be guys

[Straight_Ballin]

Yup.

OP, Thank MJ for taking the physicality out of the game.
http://i.imgur.com/qT2r2vs.jpg

Jordan was simply saying that despite all the physicality, it still wasn't enough to prevent him from getting a ring. He was that good. :cheers:

[Straight_Ballin]

Just to be clear, I hated Michael Jordan growing up, I was and will always be a Lakers/Magic Johnson guy all the way. However, you have to give it up to MJ for the onslought he suffered at the hands of those Pistons teams and he still kept after it time and time again until he conquered. That's why those superstars from the 80's will ALWAYS be held a level above the guys that came after, they had to deal with an element of true DANGER that guys now don't have to worry about.

I agree that the all out thuggery of a team like the 90's Knicks who were not even 1/5 of the team the Bad Boys were is kind of pointless and ridiculous to a certain extent but what the league has done is TOTALLY NEUTER the edge that NBA games use to have back in the day.

There are no TRUE BAD BLOOD rivalries in the NBA anymore and that's sad. That bitterness and DANGER that the old Sixers-Celtics, Pistons-Celtics, Celtics- Lakers or Lakers-Pistons is gone from the game and that is not good.

I hated Jordan also. He completely shitted on my Cavs on multiple occasions and prevented Price and Daugherty from ever getting a ring, but I'm not going to go to the lengths that these clueless Bran stans go to and some how try to justify that a shitty 2/5 in a soft ass league is anywhere close to that of the GOAT Jordan. These gen Z kids are so misinformed that they are calling facts as trolling :lol They actually think that the Heat and the Thunder was a rivalry. This game is soft and inferior compared to what it once was and anyone who says different is a gen Z kid that doesn't know any better as they try and play a nostalgia card to try and save face instead of just dealing with it.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

I hated Jordan also. He completely shitted on my Cavs on multiple occasions and prevented Price and Daugherty from ever getting a ring, but I'm not going to go to the lengths that these clueless Bran stans go to and some how try to justify that a shitty 2/5 in a soft ass league is anywhere close to that of the GOAT Jordan. These gen Z kids are so misinformed that they are calling facts as trolling :lol They actually think that the Heat and the Thunder was a rivalry. This game is soft and inferior compared to what it once was and anyone who says different is a gen Z kid that doesn't know any better.

You're right that the modern game is "soft" (though it really isn't a bad thing) but calling it inferior is completely subjective. If this wasn't an obvious troll thread/post it might be worth getting irritated about.

[Hey Yo]

I hated Jordan also. He completely shitted on my Cavs on multiple occasions and prevented Price and Daugherty from ever getting a ring, but I'm not going to go to the lengths that these clueless Bran stans go to and some how try to justify that a shitty 2/5 in a soft ass league is anywhere close to that of the GOAT Jordan. These gen Z kids are so misinformed that they are calling facts as trolling :lol They actually think that the Heat and the Thunder was a rivalry. This game is soft and inferior compared to what it once was and anyone who says different is a gen Z kid that doesn't know any better as they try and play a nostalgia card to try and save face instead of just dealing with it.
FAKE.....

OP ruined

[Straight_Ballin]

You're right that the modern game is "soft" (though it really isn't a bad thing) but calling it inferior is completely subjective. If this wasn't an obvious troll thread/post it might be worth getting irritated about.

Whatever you need to tell yourself to continue to enjoy today's game I guess....:confusedshrug:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Whatever you need to tell yourself to continue to enjoy today's game I guess....:confusedshrug:

Who the **** are you to tell people how to enjoy something? You don't like modern basketball? Great, no one cares. Doesn't mean that your shitty, antiquated opinion has to ruin it for everyone.

[Straight_Ballin]

Who the **** are you to tell people how to enjoy something? You don't like modern basketball? Great, no one cares. Doesn't mean that your shitty, antiquated opinion has to ruin it for everyone.

Actually my opinion is shared by everyone on this site that actually watched live basketball in the 80's and 90's, but feel free to have an opinion that today's game is just as good despite it being soft. Like I said, whatever you need to tell yourself. Just because the facts ruin it doesn't make it any less true.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Actually my opinion is shared by everyone on this site that actually watched live basketball in the 80's and 90's, but feel free to have an opinion that today's game is just as good despite it being soft. Like I said, whatever you need to tell yourself. Just because the facts ruin it doesn't make it any less true.

Exaggeration, generalization, bullshit. I don't think you understand what "facts" are.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Exaggeration, generalization, bullshit. I don't think you understand what "facts" are.
Don't listen to that idiot. I grew up watching the Bulls, and enjoy basketball today. The game never leaves a true die hard.

Hell, guys who actually played in that era, Charles, Shaq, and Kenny for example, have been quoted saying they're "privileged" to watch some of the superstars today.

[atljonesbro]

Judging by your post no one played any defense back then, just threw each other around because they sucked

[Straight_Ballin]

Exaggeration, generalization, bullshit. I don't think you understand what "facts" are.

It's common knowledge that those who watched in the 80's and 90's know that the evolution of the game has resulted in it's inferiority. The only people on ISH who say otherwise are posters that didn't watch in the 80's and 90's save for a few stragglers but who the hell is going to value the opinion of those that didn't watch when they only know one side of the story compared to those that know both sides.

[Straight_Ballin]

Judging by your post no one played any defense back then, just threw each other around because they sucked

When you can't stop Jordan using hand checking and tough defense, what else are you suppose to do? Again, lebron has never experienced anything like this in his life. He plays in a weaker, inferior era compared to Jordan and anyone who disagrees is just shook due to the facts, which have been conveniently laid out time and time again on this message board.

Some of us go to sleep at night knowing what it was like.
Others go to sleep at night WONDERING what it was like.

[LBJFTW]

Guilty as charged. I'm one of the one's that wonders what it was like. Damn that had to be so great being a fan in that era where the pistons throw everything that they can and Jordan still shits on them. I mean I'm grateful that we have players like Bron today, but it seems like a watered down version of the game compared to what it was like back then. I talk to my uncles about it often and they watch regularly and they agree that the game has no true rivalries and is just a shell of what it once was.

[T_L_P]

It's common knowledge that those who watched in the 80's and 90's know that the evolution of the game has resulted in it's inferiority. The only people on ISH who say otherwise are posters that didn't watch in the 80's and 90's save for a few stragglers but who the hell is going to value the opinion of those that didn't watch when they only know one side of the story compared to those that know both sides.

Teams didn't even play defense in the 80s.

Now today's game, which involves more teamwork and defensive smarts than ever before, is inferior. :oldlol:

30 win teams made the Playoffs in the 80s. :oldlol:

37 wins
42 wins
39 wins

That was Magic's road to the Finals in 87 :oldlol:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Don't listen to that idiot. I grew up watching the Bulls, and enjoy basketball today. The game never leaves a true die hard.

Hell, guys who actually played in that era, Charles, Shaq, and Kenny for example, have been quoted saying they're "privileged" to watch some of the superstars today.

Completely agree. :applause:

[Roundball_Rock]

Teams didn't even play defense in the 80s.

Now today's game, which involves more teamwork and defensive smarts than ever before, is inferior. :oldlol:

30 win teams made the Playoffs in the 80s. :oldlol:

37 wins
42 wins
39 wins

That was Magic's road to the Finals in 87 :oldlol:

:oldlol: :applause:

Just look at the shooting percentages in the 80's and early 90's. They were much higher during the "tough" defensive era--and still higher if you exclude three's. It was so "tough" people had an easier time scoring then per each FGA and also scored more in total.

[Straight_Ballin]

Now today's game, which involves more teamwork and defensive smarts than ever before, is inferior.

The defense requires more teamwork because there is no hand checking allowed and any soft touch is called a foul, plus as a defender you have to deal with flopping so it is even more difficult to play defense. Offensive players score much easier because they have even more advantages than in the past due to the rule changes and softer nature of the game. The game is so watered down that you don't even need a true center anymore to play it. You honestly think a player like James Harding would go to the line as many times as he does against the bad boy pistons? He'd be fearing for his life and shave his beard after the first game. :oldlol:

[Showtime80']

The 80's was the last decade with true great fundamental offensive basketball, is it mere coincidence that offensive numbers started only really declining after that time? Did everybody just discover and start playing defense after 40 years of ONLY playing offense? LOL! Offenses in that period were a LOT harder to stop due to the fact that there was no salary cap and teams could amass more offensive talent which is ALWAYS going to be more expensive than gathering defensive guys.

I love it when people point out the 1987 Lakers Western playoff run because yes it was a down year for the conference as well as 1985 but from 1979 to 1991 the Western conference absolutely CRAPS on the pathetic East from the last 15 years which has been out and out pathetic but obviously the best player in this generation loves because it gives him an easier ride to the Finals!

[Straight_Ballin]

The 80's was the last decade with true great fundamental offensive basketball, is it mere coincidence that offensive numbers started only really declining after that time? Did everybody just discover and start playing defense after 40 years of ONLY playing offense? LOL! Offenses in that period were a LOT harder to stop due to the fact that there was no salary cap and teams could amass more offensive talent which is ALWAYS going to be more expensive than gathering defensive guys.

I love it when people point out the 1987 Lakers Western playoff run because yes it was a down year for the conference as well as 1985 but from 1979 to 1991 the Western conference absolutely CRAPS on the pathetic East from the last 15 years which has been out and out pathetic but obviously the best player in this generation loves because it gives him an easier ride to the Finals!

:applause:

[T_L_P]

Did everybody just discover and start playing defense after 40 years of ONLY playing offense?
Watch some film and your question will be answered.

[Showtime80']

I have watched film for the past 30+ years and have seen the decay in offenses first hand more so than a radical improvement in defense! What you see as defense is basically taking the air out of the ball and slowing the game down to a crawl which is the method coaches like Pat Riley and Mike Frattello started using in the 90's to hide offensively inneficient teams. Better to lose 94-86 than 120-102 which is the difference between the modern Eastern Conference versus the West. Today's East has allowed less points than the West for the last 10+ years but does anybody really think that means they play better DEFENSE or have better basketball teams than the West! Heck NO!!!

Steve Nash's (would not have been a top 5 PG in the late 80's) 7 seconds or less Suns were contenders for 6+ years and made a mockery of today's supposedly "modern sophisticated" defenses playing basically the same way the 80's Nuggest played but WITHOUT an inside game and you mean to tell me that defenses today have become tougher!!!

[Straight_Ballin]

I have watched film for the past 30+ years and have seen the decay in offenses first hand more so than a radical improvement in defense! What you see as defense is basically taking the air out of the ball and slowing the game down to a crawl which is the method coaches like Pat Riley and Mike Frattello started using in the 90's to hide offensively inneficient teams. Better to lose 94-86 than 120-102 which is the difference between the modern Eastern Conference versus the West. Today's East has allowed less points than the West for the last 10+ years but does anybody really think that means they play better DEFENSE or have better basketball teams than the West! Heck NO!!!

Steve Nash's (would not have been a top 5 PG in the late 80's) 7 seconds or less Suns were contenders for 6+ years and made a mockery of today's supposedly "modern sophisticated" defenses playing basically the same way the 80's Nuggest played but WITHOUT an inside game and you mean to tell me that defenses today have become tougher!!!

Hell no.... but some gen Z kid will still try to argue and embarrass himself. :lol

[Showtime80']

I would love to see "mastermind" Thibbs stop the 80's Celtics or Lakers from getting to 120 with his piece of crap team!

He probably would just keep getting 24 second clock violations just so they couldn't get the ball! High comedy

[Straight_Ballin]

New NBA Logo

http://dolem.com/images/nba_where_flop_happens.gif

[Trollsmasher]

"but, but... thug basketball is good, I swear on me mom!"

**** off grandpa, the game has left you behind

intelligence > gimmick thuggery

[Hey Yo]

"but, but... thug basketball is good, I swear on me mom!"

**** off grandpa, the game has left you behind

intelligence > gimmick thuggery
[QUOTE]"Outside of Detroit, I think people will be happy they

[smoovegittar]

The size and athleticism of players today counter the bad boy tactics of yesteryear, IMO. I've enjoyed watching both, and it's why I hate these comparisons. Certainly, players of today are more skillful, and I think it's what the league desires. I loved the grit of my 90's NY teams, but there was NO grace - and it cost us.

[Straight_Ballin]

"but, but... thug basketball is good, I swear on me mom!"

**** off grandpa, the game has left you behind

intelligence > gimmick thuggery

Stay in Europe kid where the court is surrounded by guards in full body shields and batons because of the thug mentality fans. You just ethered yourself.

[Roundball_Rock]

Field goal percentages were much higher for perimeter players in the "tough" and "physical" 80's and early 90's than in the 2000's and 2010's. This is a fact.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Field goal percentages were much higher for perimeter players in the "tough" and "physical" 80's and early 90's than in the 2000's and 2010's. This is a fact.

eFG%'s are roughly the same, accounting for all the three pointers shot in today's game. :cheers:

[ralph_i_el]

Do you guys actually LIKE hard fouls?

[inclinerator]

buncha father killing lovers in this thread

[warriorfan]

New NBA Logo

http://dolem.com/images/nba_where_flop_happens.gif



:roll: :roll: :roll:



:oldlol: @ still ballin melting down...

[hitmanyr2k]

New NBA Logo

http://dolem.com/images/nba_where_flop_happens.gif

:oldlol:

[Lebron23]

Don't listen to that idiot. I grew up watching the Bulls, and enjoy basketball today. The game never leaves a true die hard.

Hell, guys who actually played in that era, Charles, Shaq, and Kenny for example, have been quoted saying they're "privileged" to watch some of the superstars today.


http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/holy-rollins.gif

[wakencdukest]

The league is only soft because of the rules. Of course it was way more physical back then, but that don't mean the defense today is any worse. Players come into the league today at a huge defensive disadvantage, you can't even touch a perimeter player anymore. Personally, I think todays offensive players got it easy compared to the 80's and 90's while the defenses have it worse, but I don't think softness really has anything to do with the individual players. You put players like Randolph, Nene, Perk, etc. back into the 90's, they'ed be right in the middle of that shit.

[TheMan]

I started watching NBA games as a kid in the 80s right through today. While I was never a fan of the overt violence, the NBA went overboard on defanging the game. The flagrant fouls I get, some of the more thuggish players back then were TRYING to hurt talented offensive players when they drove to the basket. That isn't good for the game overall. However, making it illegal to put a hand on a player going to the hole, not being able to give hard fouls without trying to hurt him or not being able to trash talk, getting in your opponent's head was going too far.

We lost the rivalries of old, there aren't any rivalries that truly hate each other like the late 80s/early 90s Bulls Pistons and that's a shame.

[Taller than CP3]

I miss 90's ball, the fouls reminded me of rugby back in the day. Nowadays, it's more like soccer with all the flopping involved.

[LoneyROY7]

Yo OP, stick to commenting on 90s youtube clips and STFU.

[Straight_Ballin]

Yo OP, stick to commenting on 90s youtube clips and STFU.

^
Lol yung cat is clearly shook. Stick with what you know,
which sadly doesn't appear to be much based on the low
quality of your posts....

[plowking]

The league is only soft because of the rules. Of course it was way more physical back then, but that don't mean the defense today is any worse. Players come into the league today at a huge defensive disadvantage, you can't even touch a perimeter player anymore. Personally, I think todays offensive players got it easy compared to the 80's and 90's while the defenses have it worse, but I don't think softness really has anything to do with the individual players. You put players like Randolph, Nene, Perk, etc. back into the 90's, they'ed be right in the middle of that shit.

Then how is it that less points are scored now? How is it that FG% is down since Jordan played? How is it that superstar scoring is down across the board?

Preventing a player moving with a handcheck back in the day, was still a foul back in the day. Same as now, though now maybe a slightly higher percentage of it being called. Throw in floating zones, strong side zones, and it is damn near impossible to penetrate at times for a superstar. Coaches can say they only run zones 1% of the time throughout the year, but watching the tapes, you can see it is becoming a huge staple for every team in the league.

We've never seem teams like the recent Spurs and Hawks be so successful in the league, simply because they have no real superstar. Superstars were very important back in the iso days, yet if you play great team ball today, you can get by without one.

[sammichoffate]

http://livingfreenyc.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Charmin.jpg

[wakencdukest]

Then how is it that less points are scored now? How is it that FG% is down since Jordan played? How is it that superstar scoring is down across the board?

Preventing a player moving with a handcheck back in the day, was still a foul back in the day. Same as now, though now maybe a slightly higher percentage of it being called. Throw in floating zones, strong side zones, and it is damn near impossible to penetrate at times for a superstar. Coaches can say they only run zones 1% of the time throughout the year, but watching the tapes, you can see it is becoming a huge staple for every team in the league.

We've never seem teams like the recent Spurs and Hawks be so successful in the league, simply because they have no real superstar. Superstars were very important back in the iso days, yet if you play great team ball today, you can get by without one.





Could it be that 3 point attempts have risen steadily from the 80's until now, and overall shot attempts have stayed the same? Offensive rebounding has also steadily decreased over the same period, and overall rebounds have remained the same, which is obvious because big men are steadily moving farther from the basket.

[ClipperRevival]

Yes it is. Physicality is a part of the game. Committing a hard fould to send a message to the other team is a part of the game. I always loved a tussle here and there when it got physical. I liked seeing passion and fire. The league has taken away most of the physicality and emotion out of the game. And that is sad. Having said that, I still love the NBA and always will. But yes, the game today is way too soft.

[plowking]

Could it be that 3 point attempts have risen steadily from the 80's until now, and overall shot attempts have stayed the same? Offensive rebounding has also steadily decreased over the same period, and overall rebounds have remained the same, which is obvious because big men are steadily moving farther from the basket.

Why are 3 point attempts becoming more prevalent? Maybe because the defense is forcing it? What do you do when the paint is camped in?

Shot attempts have stayed the same, yet more 3's are being taken, and yet less points are being scored. Doesn't add up. Might be due to the defenses being better now?

Big men are moving further away from the basket because it is a different game. Zones allow trapping and doubling on the post before the entry. You have to play as a team, and not so much score in iso situations. An iso is the easiest way to score.

Serious question. When you played basketball, did you find it easier to score in a one on one situation where your defender was given some wiggle room to hand check and follow your movements, or, when you tried to drive and you were met by a crowded key, and a whole lot of bodies but no handchecking allowed?

[ClipperRevival]

Why are 3 point attempts becoming more prevalent? Maybe because the defense is forcing it? What do you do when the paint is camped in?

Shot attempts have stayed the same, yet more 3's are being taken, and yet less points are being scored. Doesn't add up. Might be due to the defenses being better now?

Big men are moving further away from the basket because it is a different game. Zones allow trapping and doubling on the post before the entry. You have to play as a team, and not so much score in iso situations. An iso is the easiest way to score.

Serious question. When you played basketball, did you find it easier to score in a one on one situation where your defender was given some wiggle room to hand check and follow your movements, or, when you tried to drive and you were met by a crowded key, and a whole lot of bodies but no handchecking allowed?

The high 3 pt shooting is a direct result of analytics.

And the hardest thing to do in basketball is to create your own shot in a iso situation with a set defender.

And if zone is so effective, how come no one never uses it? It's because players at this level are too good and you can't just guard an area because you'll get torched. Zone hasn't impacted the game the way many expected. It hasn't had much of an impact. The proof is in the fact that teams seldom go zone. Too much of a risk.

[wakencdukest]

Why are 3 point attempts becoming more prevalent? Maybe because the defense is forcing it? What do you do when the paint is camped in?

Shot attempts have stayed the same, yet more 3's are being taken, and yet less points are being scored. Doesn't add up. Might be due to the defenses being better now?

Big men are moving further away from the basket because it is a different game. Zones allow trapping and doubling on the post before the entry. You have to play as a team, and not so much score in iso situations. An iso is the easiest way to score.

Serious question. When you played basketball, did you find it easier to score in a one on one situation where your defender was given some wiggle room to hand check and follow your movements, or, when you tried to drive and you were met by a crowded key, and a whole lot of bodies but no handchecking allowed?

I think teams shoot more 3's because that's what the coaches want them to do. It's all about spreading the floor, driving, and kicking out to the open man, or driving all the way if you get an open lane. People no longer camp out in the lane, they camp on the 3 point line. And, I didn't say defenses are worse. I agree they are just as good now, they just have disadvantages that they didn't use to have. As for your question, 1 on 1. Then again I was usually the biggest guy on the court so a crowded lane wasn't usually too much of a problem.

[plowking]

The high 3 pt shooting is a direct result of analytics.

And the hardest thing to do in basketball is to create your own shot in a iso situation with a set defender.

And if zone is so effective, how come no one never uses it? It's because players at this level are too good and you can't just guard an area because you'll get torched. Zone hasn't impacted the game the way many expected. It hasn't had much of an impact. The proof is in the fact that teams seldom go zone. Too much of a risk.

Coaches can say whatever they want about whether or not they're using zone or not. The fact is, going by tape, you see them line up in a zone formation.

Look how Boston stopped Kobe the first finals they played. Zone was the main reason the Celtics won the title. Look how Spurs defended Bron. It was a whole lot of zone and loading up the strong side.

Zone hasn't impacted the game the way they thought it would? I agree. They thought it would promote superstar play, and it has done the opposite. It is harder to dominate as an individual today. Why do you think Duncan, McGrady and Garnett all complained about zones? Why do you think Jordan was a big activist of keeping zones out of the game?

Bring back handchecking and take out zones again and you'll see superstars being born. Michael Beasley will become one of the top10 players in the league. So would Jamal Crawford of 6 or 7 years ago.

[ClipperRevival]

Coaches can say whatever they want about whether or not they're using zone or not. The fact is, going by tape, you see them line up in a zone formation.

Look how Boston stopped Kobe the first finals they played. Zone was the main reason the Celtics won the title. Look how Spurs defended Bron. It was a whole lot of zone and loading up the strong side.

Zone hasn't impacted the game the way they thought it would? I agree. They thought it would promote superstar play, and it has done the opposite. It is harder to dominate as an individual today. Why do you think Duncan, McGrady and Garnett all complained about zones? Why do you think Jordan was a big activist of keeping zones out of the game?

Bring back handchecking and take out zones again and you'll see superstars being born. Michael Beasley will become one of the top10 players in the league. So would Jamal Crawford of 6 or 7 years ago.

Kobe lost in 2008 because Boston was simply the better team. Kobe tried to do too much himself and shot us out of games like he did in 2004. Also, there were some great defenders on him like Prince, Allen and Posey. But i do think there is some truth that zone might've had some impact.

But having said that, I just don't see zone having that much of an impact at this level. If it was, teams would use it all the time but they don't.

If you ask me which era I would want to play in if I'm, say a Michael Jordan, I know I would prefer this era over when he actually played. All the rules are catered for a player like him to thrive.

[TheMan]

Then how is it that less points are scored now? How is it that FG% is down since Jordan played? How is it that superstar scoring is down across the board?

Preventing a player moving with a handcheck back in the day, was still a foul back in the day. Same as now, though now maybe a slightly higher percentage of it being called. Throw in floating zones, strong side zones, and it is damn near impossible to penetrate at times for a superstar. Coaches can say they only run zones 1% of the time throughout the year, but watching the tapes, you can see it is becoming a huge staple for every team in the league.

We've never seem teams like the recent Spurs and Hawks be so successful in the league, simply because they have no real superstar. Superstars were very important back in the iso days, yet if you play great team ball today, you can get by without one.

The 79 SuperSonics, Bad Boys Pistons, unless you consider Isiah Thomas a superstar (I don't, boderline at best) and the 04 Pistons :confusedshrug:

[plowking]

If you ask me which era I would want to play in if I'm, say a Michael Jordan, I know I would prefer this era over when he actually played. All the rules are catered for a player like him to thrive.

No, his era was the one for superstar players to thrive. We had Kiki Vandeweghe being a 30ppg scorer essentially while Jordan was playing.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

If anyone cares about the postseason, yes, Jordan would be the best score in the game. No questions asked.

[hitmanyr2k]

Coaches can say whatever they want about whether or not they're using zone or not. The fact is, going by tape, you see them line up in a zone formation.

Look how Boston stopped Kobe the first finals they played. Zone was the main reason the Celtics won the title. Look how Spurs defended Bron. It was a whole lot of zone and loading up the strong side.

Zone hasn't impacted the game the way they thought it would? I agree. They thought it would promote superstar play, and it has done the opposite. It is harder to dominate as an individual today. Why do you think Duncan, McGrady and Garnett all complained about zones? Why do you think Jordan was a big activist of keeping zones out of the game?

Bring back handchecking and take out zones again and you'll see superstars being born. Michael Beasley will become one of the top10 players in the league. So would Jamal Crawford of 6 or 7 years ago.

I'm not sure why Duncan would complain about zone when he doesn't see it. 15 minutes of nothing but clear outs like these :oldlol:

http://youtu.be/mcULJMJFuNs?t=7s

http://i.imgur.com/U7fuPbH.gif

http://i.imgur.com/7DKJB41.gif

http://i.imgur.com/C2VMSyD.gif

[TheMan]

I'm not sure why Duncan would complain about zone when he doesn't see it. 15 minutes of nothing but clear outs like these :oldlol:

http://youtu.be/mcULJMJFuNs?t=7s

http://i.imgur.com/U7fuPbH.gif

http://i.imgur.com/7DKJB41.gif

http://i.imgur.com/C2VMSyD.gif
Great video :applause:

I don't see the paint packed with bodies like Plowking claims...

[Paul George 24]

No, his era was the one for superstar players to thrive. We had Kiki Vandeweghe being a 30ppg scorer essentially while Jordan was playing.

the center in this era compare to 80,90s :roll:

[Showtime80']

Wow! I'm sure Shaq, Hakeem and even Robert Parish are going to be shaking in their boots with that "sophisticated" defense Duncan s facing and that was supposedly one of the best defenses in the league! Just face it, the current crop of centers is just a pathetic collection of soft jump shooters. Nice to see and old Duncan still eating today's "uber" schemes alive!

[SATAN]

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/s178/toyotamotors/CmyvsthWgAAvXQh_zpss6dbq79y.jpg


https://sneakernews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Nike-KD-13-Peace-Day-2020-2.jpg
https://images.solecollector.com/images/fl_lossy,q_auto/c_crop,h_1090,w_2000,x_0,y_577/alqlfqpi2ol2i16rwffu/nike-kd-13-peace-love-and-basketball-da1341-100-medial

[John8204]

Every 20 years or so the game gets softer

50's/60's - was the hardest era
70's/80's - was the last of the center era when you could fight
90's/00's - the foul/ref era
11's/20's - 3-point shoot era