Better case for Finals MVP: Manu in '05 or Pau in '10?

[SouBeachTalents]

These two are most hotly debated Finals MVP selections since the '80's, which one do you think had a better case for Finals MVP?

[navy]

Manu had a legit case. Kobe was chucking, but Pau really wasnt going to win.

[AnaheimLakers24]

Ray allen in 13. Heat lose without him

[Prime_Shaq]

Kobe was definitely the Finals MVP in 2010. Pau was the game 7 MVP however.

[TheMarkMadsen]

what's the argument for Pau?

Kobe averaged 29/11 the last 3 games on 40%

Pau averaged 16/14 the last 3 games on 40%

[Eric Cartman]

what's the argument for Pau?

Kobe averaged 29/11 the last 3 games on 40%

Pau averaged 16/14 the last 3 games on 40%

Rat poison.

[tpols]

Kobe was definitely the Finals MVP in 2010. Pau was the game 7 MVP however.

No... he shot like 35% as a center

It was metta and is not even close.

[Gabuyaux]

Manu.

[Prime_Shaq]

No... he shot like 35% as a center

It was metta and is not even close.
You could argue if it was Pau or Artest. Both had huge impacts.

[G0ATbe]

Gonna have to go with Manu, since Pau doesn't have an argument:confusedshrug: .

[AnaheimLakers24]

Op should stay a fake merry fairweather "heat" fan acting like he doesnt wana jump on cavs/brans dick

[ISHGoat]

Look at all the insecure kobe stans in here defending their idol

[tpols]

You could argue if it was Pau or Artest. Both had huge impacts.
You really cant..

Defense can't be an argument with metta since he was the defensive stopper on the lakers..

And most of all metta hit the back breakers and most needed buckets.. I don't even remember a single memorable pau play or score.

[tpols]

To answer op s question manu and it's not close

No fmvp has ever been outscored by 10+ ppg.. it would be a travesty. Especially considered how much kobe was game planned for and doubled.

With duncan and manu the difference was 2 ppg except manu was by every measure the better more impact full offensive player and was far more dangerous closing. ..

[dubeta]

LeBron in '11

Oh wait, Wade had to ruin things

[dubeta]

To answer op s question manu and it's not close

No fmvp has ever been outscored by 10+ ppg.. it would be a travesty. Especially considered how much kobe was game planned for and doubled.

With duncan and manu the difference was 2 ppg except manu was by every measure the better more impact full offensive player and was far more dangerous closing. ..

Kobe's points dont mean shit, especially with the piss-poor efficiency he shot in the finals

Gasol was the best interior scorer, rebounder, defender and came up big in the close out game

Advanced stats will also tell you that Gasol was better

Kobe has no argument for FMVP unless you lack any sense of reasoning

[Nuff Said]

Ray allen in 13. Heat lose without him
What were his stats?

[greatest-ever]

LeBron in '11

Oh wait, Wade had to ruin things
Sarcasm?

[Genaro]

Only Bran's stans or Kobe haters going to try diminish Kobe saying Pau was the FMVP. Yes, Kobe shoot poorly in game 7 but he was the better player during the whole finals. There wouldn't be a game 7 had he played worst in the other games.
Stat wise is pretty clear as well 28/8/4 vs 18/11/4

[Wade's Rings]

Sarcasm?

Nah this guy always blames Wade for the Heat losing in 2011:oldlol:

[Lebronxrings]

Nah this guy always blames Wade for the Heat losing in 2011:oldlol:
If not for lebron, your name would be wades ring

[SouBeachTalents]

If not for lebron, your name would be wades ring

And without Wade, your name would be LeBron0rings

[Wade's Rings]

If not for lebron, your name would be wades ring

If not for Wade you wouldn't even have an account :roll:

[The Iron Sheik]

why does everything have to be such an extreme with people on here? pau shot poorly but came through on the boards big time in game 7 just like kobe, doesn't mean he was finals mvp. artest hit a big shot to keep the lakers ahead, but he wasn't finals mvp.

[JebronLames]

And without Wade, your name would be LeBron0rings
LeBron1ring. He wins in 2013 without wade.

[TheMarkMadsen]

And without Wade, your name would be LeBron0rings

http://25.media.tumblr.com/f91b7614cb978314fd32bef306be8448/tumblr_mgoddoULGH1rjme7ro1_400.gif

[ClipperRevival]

Pau was absolutely huge in game 7. I've seen that game several times cause I'm a Laker fan. He was huge on the boards and made some huge shots down the stretch.

But there was never a time when I thought Pau could or should have won MVP in that series. Kobe was clearly "the man" in that series and deserved the award.

[dubeta]

Nah this guy always blames Wade for the Heat losing in 2011:oldlol:

You probably rushed while making your username but you missed a *

[SouBeachTalents]

You probably rushed while making your username but you missed a *

So the 2012 & 2013 Finals were rigged?

[Ne 1]

what's the argument for Pau?

Kobe averaged 29/11 the last 3 games on 40%

Pau averaged 16/14 the last 3 games on 40%

There is none. Gasol played well in L.A. but was terrible on the road that series and got outplayed by KG in Boston.

Haters harp on Kobe's FG% in Game 7 but forgot Kobe's brilliance through 6 games--30/6/5/2/56% TS.

Not to mention how clutch he was in that Game 7 in the 4th quarter: 10 pts/61% TS/4 Reb/2 Ast. Had a hand in nearly every single point by the Lakers in the last 7-8 minutes.

Kobe through 6 games: 30/6/5/2/56% TS
Kobe in Game 7: Easily the best player
Kobe for entire series: 29/8/4/2/1/53%/26+ PER

[Ne 1]

"Despite Kobe struggling shooting the ball, he was instrumental on the glass in a low-scoring game where every possession was key and held Ray to 3 for 14 shooting" - Doc Rivers

"I thought in Game 7 [of the 2010 NBA Finals], what gets lost on people, Boston was badly out rebounded, and he [Kobe Bryant] didn't have a particularly good shooting night, but he had a great rebounding night and that probably was the difference of the game." - Tom Thibodeau




Oh, and let's not forget Kobe's phenomenal Game 5 performance. If any of the other Lakers showed up that game, they wouldn't have even needed a Game 7. He was clearly the best player of that series, in fact though 6 games he averaged 30/6/5/2/ 56 TS%. people in the media were saying he should be awarded FMVP in a lsoing effort ala Jerry West even if the Celtics won.

[Droid101]

And without Wade, your name would be LeBron0rings
https://38.media.tumblr.com/409a839ece0f3807d23861fc6e744568/tumblr_nkiewgAXbQ1tvbnqlo3_400.gif

[Wade's Rings]

You probably rushed while making your username but you missed a *

Switched to his Alt to attack me :lol

Seriously a LeBron homer talking about asterisks :oldlol:

[Droid101]

Switched to his Alt to attack me :lol

Seriously a LeBron homer talking about asterisks :oldlol:
:lol

You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.I'll hit you up later. Can anyone cover me?

[Showtime2001]

Of course bran stans think Pau was FMVP in 2010 :oldlol:

stay butt hurt.

[bballnoob1192]

anyone that actually watched the 2010 Laker/Celtics series and saw how Kobe and Fisher played @ Boston wouldn't even argue about the Pau Gasol nonsense. Gasol got his cuz of Kobe, but Kobe and Fisher were the heart of those lakers team.

[Prime_Shaq]

anyone that actually watched the 2010 Laker/Celtics series and saw how Kobe and Fisher played @ Boston wouldn't even argue about the Pau Gasol nonsense. Gasol got his cuz of Kobe, but Kobe and Fisher were the heart of those lakers team.
Don't forget artest and odom

[JohnFreeman]

Kobe deserved it, but Gasol saved that series

[ClipperRevival]

Kobe deserved it, but Gasol saved that series

Gasol and Artest were clearly the two best players in game 7. Kobe's legacy would be much weaker had he lost that game. Losing two times to the Celts in the finals would've hurt. That series was so huge for his legacy.

[Stringer Bell]

Both choices for finals MVP were fine.

Gasol played better in game 7 than Kobe, but Kobe was better throughout the series.

Duncan was the deserving winner.

1980 and 1988 are more "controversial".

Kareem was simply dominant in the first 5 games, including a huge performance in game 5 when he played with the injury and the Lakers won a close game thanks to him putting up a huge game. Magic had his famous game 6 and won FMVP.

Magic wasn't dominant in 1988 like Kareem in 1980, but he was the best Laker throughout the series. Worthy had one of the best game 7 performances ever, and won FMVP.

[game3524]

"Despite Kobe struggling shooting the ball, he was instrumental on the glass in a low-scoring game where every possession was key and held Ray to 3 for 14 shooting" - Doc Rivers

"I thought in Game 7 [of the 2010 NBA Finals], what gets lost on people, Boston was badly out rebounded, and he [Kobe Bryant] didn't have a particularly good shooting night, but he had a great rebounding night and that probably was the difference of the game." - Tom Thibodeau




Oh, and let's not forget Kobe's phenomenal Game 5 performance. If any of the other Lakers showed up that game, they wouldn't have even needed a Game 7. He was clearly the best player of that series, in fact though 6 games he averaged 30/6/5/2/ 56 TS%. people in the media were saying he should be awarded FMVP in a lsoing effort ala Jerry West even if the Celtics won.

Yup.

I always laugh at the revisionist history when it comes to Pau and Kobe's 2010 Finals performance. Kobe was the best player throughout the series, and should have been MVP even if they had lost.

Pau played well at home......but didn't do anything on the road. His play on the road was one of the biggest reason the series even went to 7.

[ArbitraryWater]

:roll: :roll:

These Kobe fans.. I remember IMMEDIATE backlash at Kobe's FMVP after that series.. Even ESPN covered it, the guys who created his MJ image.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlotKqzsUjg

0.55...

And now this shitty "but Gasol didn't do anything on the road doe", oh, and Kobe was so spectacular with his 10-29 in game 3, 10-22 with SEVEN turnovers in game 4, such a road warrior..

[Deuce Bigalow]

:roll: :roll:

These Kobe fans.. I remember IMMEDIATE backlash at Kobe's FMVP after that series.. Even ESPN covered it, the guys who created his MJ image.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlotKqzsUjg

0.55...

And now this shitty "but Gasol didn't do anything on the road doe", oh, and Kobe was so spectacular with his 10-29 in game 3, 10-22 with SEVEN turnovers in game 4, such a road warrior..
Yeah just look at FG%..

G3
Kobe 29/7/4/2/3
Pau 13/10/4/0/2

G4
Kobe 33/6/2/2/0
Pau 21/6/3/0/2

G5
Kobe 38/5/4/1/1
Pau 12/12/0/2/0

Next

[tpols]

You remember immediate backlash after the finals lmao

Breh you DID NOT watch those finals! You are a post decision baby!

[HurricaneKid]

Kobe was the best player throughout the series, and should have been MVP even if they had lost.


Ugh. You can argue that Kobe was the FMVP. But you CANNOT argue that a 40% shooter on a losing team should have won the FMVP. It diminishes everything else you say.

[game3524]

Ugh. You can argue that Kobe was the FMVP. But you CANNOT argue that a 40% shooter on a losing team should have won the FMVP. It diminishes everything else you say.

There was no one on Boston who deserved it.

Kobe should have won regardless if they had won or lost. He was easily the best player through the entire series.

[ArbitraryWater]

Finals

G1:
Gasol: 23/14(8 offensive)/3 on 57% + 3 Blocks
Kobe: 30/7/6 on 45%

Gasol > Kobe

G2:
Gasol: 25/8/3/ on 70% + 6 Blocks
Kobe: 21/5/6 on 40% + 4 Steals (5 TO's+5 PF's)

Gasol > Kobe

G3:
Gasol: 13/10/4 on 46%
Kobe: 29/7/4 on 34% + 3 Blocks

Kobe > Gasol

G4:
Gasol: 21/6/3 on 46%
Kobe: 33/6/2 on 45% (7 TO's+5 PF's)

Wash

G5:
Gasol: 12/12(7 offensive)/0 on 42%
Kobe: 38/5/4 on 48% (5 PF's)

Kobe > Gasol

G6:
Gasol: 17/13(5 offensive)/9 on 44% + 3 Blocks
Kobe: 26/11/3 on 47% + 4 Steals

Gasol > Kobe

G7:
Gasol: 19/18(9 offensive)/4 on 38%
Kobe: 23/15/2 on 25%

Gasol > Kobe

Turnovers:
Kobe: 28
Gasol: 13

How can it NOT be Gasol's FMVP :oldlol:

Tell me which game you honestly disagree with.

Even if you want to give Kobe Game 4, Gasol still outplayed him 4/7 times, and one of those being the big one, Game 7.

[dubeta]

I don't expect Kobestans who worship low efficiency scoring/chucking over anything else to really understand why Gasol should have been FMVP

Its a worthless battle :facepalm

[Deuce Bigalow]

Finals

G1:
Gasol: 23/14(8 offensive)/3 on 57% + 3 Blocks
Kobe: 30/7/6 on 45%

Gasol > Kobe

G2:
Gasol: 25/8/3/ on 70% + 6 Blocks
Kobe: 21/5/6 on 40% + 4 Steals (5 TO's+5 PF's)

Gasol > Kobe

G3:
Gasol: 13/10/4 on 46%
Kobe: 29/7/4 on 34% + 3 Blocks

Kobe > Gasol

G4:
Gasol: 21/6/3 on 46%
Kobe: 33/6/2 on 45% (7 TO's+5 PF's)

Wash

G5:
Gasol: 12/12(7 offensive)/0 on 42%
Kobe: 38/5/4 on 48% (5 PF's)

Kobe > Gasol

G6:
Gasol: 17/13(5 offensive)/9 on 44% + 3 Blocks
Kobe: 26/11/3 on 47% + 4 Steals

Gasol > Kobe

G7:
Gasol: 19/18(9 offensive)/4 on 38%
Kobe: 23/15/2 on 25%

Gasol > Kobe

Turnovers:
Kobe: 28
Gasol: 13

How can it NOT be Gasol's FMVP :oldlol:

Tell me which game you honestly disagree with.

Even if you want to give Kobe Game 4, Gasol still outplayed him 4/7 times, and one of those being the big one, Game 7.
You sure about that?

[ArbitraryWater]

You sure about that?

7 TO's and 5 PF's is pretty bad.. I mean, you think 7 TO's is worse than 7 missed shots? Probably, since it also leads to higher % scores for the opponent... eh, give it to Pau if you want to.

[game3524]

Pau averaged 15 ppg and had a TS% of 51% on the road. Kobe on the other hand averaged 33 ppg and had a TS% of 56%.

Seriously, why is this even a debate?

[TheMarkMadsen]

You sure about that?

Game 1 is also Kobe.

[Eric Cartman]

Pau averaged 15 ppg and had a TS% of 51% on the road. Kobe on the other hand averaged 33 ppg and had a TS% of 56%.

Seriously, why is this even a debate?

Cause haters can't open their f*cking eyes.

[dubeta]

Pau averaged 15 ppg and had a TS% of 51% on the road. Kobe on the other hand averaged 33 ppg and had a TS% of 56%.

Seriously, why is this even a debate?

Nice, notice how Kobe can put up the best stats during the losses?

Empty Stats

[Deuce Bigalow]

2010 Finals

Kobe - 28.6 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 3.9 apg, 0.7 bpg, 2.1 spg, 3.9 tpg, 40.5% FG, 88.3% FT, 52.8% TS

Pau - 18.6 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 3.7 apg, 2.6 bpg, 0.7 spg, 1.9 tpg, 47.8% FG, 72.1% FT, 55.6% TS

:confusedshrug:

[game3524]

Cause haters can't open their f*cking eyes.

It is hilarious to me how bias some people can be. Kobe's efficiency against the Celtics was identical to Lebron's against the Spurs in 2013 and yet you never hear anyone bitch about who was the MVP of that series.

[game3524]

Nice, notice how Kobe can put up the best stats during the losses?

Empty Stats

They were only in those games because of Kobe's play, Pau's no show saw to that.

[TheMarkMadsen]

what's the argument for Pau?

Kobe averaged 29/11 the last 3 games on 40%

Pau averaged 16/14 the last 3 games on 40%

...

[ArbitraryWater]

Game 1 is also Kobe.

How :roll:

Kobe shot the last 2 points with like 2 seconds left, game over, meaningless.

No one in their right mind takes 28/7/6 on 21 shots over 23/14(EIGHT OFFENSIVE BOARDS!! These are 8 newly created offensive possessions)/3 on 14, FOURTEEN shots and THREE blocks.

Kobe's usage was 37%, Gasol's 21%. Gasol had a better +/-, higher Ortg and Drtg.

If you do, log off.

edit: As usual, Kobe fans cut a 7-game series into their favorite and likeable stretch, THREE games... You people are such clowns. Not worth entertaining you useless shits.

[dubeta]

2010 Finals

Kobe - 28.6 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 3.9 apg, 0.7 bpg, 2.1 spg, 3.9 tpg, 40.5% FG, 88.3% FT, 52.8% TS

Pau - 18.6 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 3.7 apg, 2.6 bpg, 0.7 spg, 1.9 tpg, 47.8% FG, 72.1% FT, 55.6% TS

:confusedshrug:

Nice, you basically proved Gasol was the FMVP :applause:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Game 1 is also Kobe.
14 in the 3rd where the Lakers got their big lead.

Lakers up 84-64 after the 3rd ended.

Stats as that point:

Kobe 27/5/4 on 9/16 FG
Pau 18/10/1 on 6/11 FG

Kobe shot 1/6 in the 4th quarter which ****ed up his %

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/pbp/201006030LAL.html#q3

[aj1987]

You sure about that?
TS in Game 4:

Kobe - 65%
Gasol - 60%

TOV's:

Kobe - 7
Gasol - 4

PF's:

Kobe - 5
Gasol - 4

Kobe essentially scored 12 points more on 5% better efficiency. Kobe and it's not close. That guys is a retarded LeBron stan.

[TheMarkMadsen]

How :roll:

Kobe shot the last 2 points with like 2 seconds left, game over, meaningless.

No one in their right mind takes 28/7/6 on 21 shots over 23/14(EIGHT OFFENSIVE BOARDS!! These are 8 newly created offensive possessions)/3 on 14, FOURTEEN shots and THREE blocks.

Kobe's usage was 37%, Gasol's 21%. Gasol had a better +/-, higher Ortg and Drtg.

If you do, log off.

edit: As usual, Kobe fans cut a 7-game series into their favorite and likeable stretch, THREE games... You people are such clowns. Not worth entertaining you useless shits.


Please stop commenting on games you clearly never saw.

Kobes run gave us the win

Stat box nerd, ORtg & drgt aren't even meant to be used for individual players.

Last 3 games of a 7 game series are obviously huge games and picking a stretch where Kobe has a 6/24 game isn't picking a "likeable stretch" it's picking the last 3 game of an extremely close series, dumbass.

I would tell you to log off, but you're just too fun to punch around in this thread.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

As a Celtics fan, I really felt like Pau won that series by dominating a one legged Garnett. But FMVP, like MVP, goes to the guy with the story (see Pierce in 08) and they'd never give it to Pau.

[chazzy]

14 in the 3rd where the Lakers got their big lead.

Lakers up 84-64 after the 3rd ended.

Stats as that point:

Kobe 27/5/4 on 9/16 FG
Pau 18/10/1 on 6/11 FG

Kobe shot 1/6 in the 4th quarter which ****ed up his %

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/pbp/201006030LAL.html#q3
AW is a confirmed 2011 newbie

[FKAri]

LeBron in '11

Oh wait, Wade had to ruin things

The audacity of this fakkit :lol

[HOoopCityJones]

Please stop commenting on games you clearly never saw.

Kobes run gave us the win

Stat box nerd, ORtg & drgt aren't even meant to be used for individual players.

Last 3 games of a 7 game series are obviously huge games and picking a stretch where Kobe has a 6/24 game isn't picking a "likeable stretch" it's picking the last 3 game of an extremely close series, dumbass.

I would tell you to log off, but you're just too fun to punch around in this thread.


Don't even reply to him. Not one person takes him seriously on this Forum,except his alts. It's disrespectful to the most ignorant Lebron stan to even be compared to a piece of shit like AW.