Kevin Love Is Averaging 1 Point Per Possession On Post-Ups

[T_L_P]

Well, 0.99, which is 2nd best in the league for any player with 200+ possessions (#1 is Donatas Motiejunas ).

http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/post-up/?dir=1&sort=PPP&CF=Poss*GE*200

Somehow he has games where all his shots are 3-pointers. :kobe:

[TheMarkMadsen]

He's top 5 in the league in the paint, don't know why his team/teammates don't utilize him more

[SexSymbol]

I remember the good days when Kobe was averaging 1,3 ppg in the same situations and he was second in the league to Durant in 12-13 :(
League without Kobe just has less quality overall

[el_locoteee]

He's top 5 in the league in the paint, don't know why his team/teammates don't utilize him more
Lebron and Kyrie need the ball.
Just like Bosh in Miami he is an afterthought

[T_L_P]

I remember the good days when Kobe was averaging 1,3 ppg in the same situations and he was second in the league to Durant in 12-13 :(
League without Kobe just has less quality overall

The league without good Kobe is worse; the league without Kobe of the past two years? Meh.

But this thread isn't about him.

[Beastmode88]

He's top 5 in the league in the paint, don't know why his team/teammates don't utilize him more

Lebron turned him into a spot up shooter. :(

[TheMarkMadsen]

Lebron and Kyrie need the ball.
Just like Bosh in Miami he is an afterthought

Love led his worse teammates to a better record in a tougher conference while putting up 26/13/4 with the 3rd highest PER in the league

Love is better than Kyrie and his team would benefit by running the offense through Lebron/Love

[CavaliersFTW]

Lebron ball mandates everyone must be a spot up shooter :lol

[sd3035]

Bran ball

[I<3NBA]

Lebron ball mandates everyone must be a spot up shooter :lol
in the game without Kyrie and Lebron, K. Love took only one shot in the paint. all his other shots were 3 pointers.

go figure.

[navy]

Kyrie is better than Love. Yall smoking some shit.

[guy]

Lebron needs more help.

[dubeta]

So why do people consider prime Duncan better than him?

According to those stats:

Posting up - Kevin Love is about the same or even better than Duncan

Rebounding - edge to Kevin Love

Passing- Love is clearly a better passer

Shooting- Kevin Love is clearly better all around shooter

Defense- Duncan is better

OP, do you think prime Duncan was better?

[ISHGoat]

I remember the good days when Kobe was averaging 1,3 ppg in the same situations and he was second in the league to Durant in 12-13 :(
League without Kobe just has less quality overall

Post source you retarded kobe stan

[Marchesk]

Kyrie is better than Love. Yall smoking some shit.

No he's not. Love on Minny last season >>> Kyrie

[T_L_P]

So why do people consider prime Duncan better than him?

According to those stats:

Posting up - Kevin Love is about the same or even better than Duncan

Rebounding - edge to Kevin Love

Passing- Love is clearly a better passer

Shooting- Kevin Love is clearly better all around shooter

Defense- Duncan is better

OP, do you think prime Duncan was better?

No, Love is unquestionably better than Duncan ever was...he is on a team that literally has no excuses.

[navy]

No he's not. Love on Minny last season >>> Kyrie

Empty stats.

[RedBlackAttack]

It's pretty obvious, isn't it? When you're playing with two great slashers/finishers in today's NBA, having two guys roaming around the paint can muddy things up. It's fine to use him in the post occasionally and I support doing it a bit more, but in order for this offense to be at its best, he also needs to be able to step out and space the floor a good bit of the time.

If Love was able to play center, it could be scary and he'd be getting tons of touches in the paint. Unfortunately, he can't defend the 5, so he has to be constantly on the floor with either Mozgov or Thompson... two guys who usually don't stray more than 5-feet from the basket.

Really, the issue comes down to Love's defense or lack thereof.

[Marchesk]

Empty stats.

As if Kyrie wasn't empty without Lebron.

[dubeta]

No, Love is unquestionably better than Duncan ever was...he is on a team that literally has no excuses.

No excuses to miss the playoffs, yes.

[knicksman]

So why do people consider prime Duncan better than him?

According to those stats:

Posting up - Kevin Love is about the same or even better than Duncan

Rebounding - edge to Kevin Love

Passing- Love is clearly a better passer

Shooting- Kevin Love is clearly better all around shooter

Defense- Duncan is better

OP, do you think prime Duncan was better?

because 5/6>>2/5 :confusedshrug:

[navy]

As if Kyrie wasn't empty without Lebron.
I'll answer seriously.

People see Kevin Love's numbers and think he's that good, which is why PER is overrated. It just adds stats together.

He can score 26 a game, but he doesnt create for himself well. Which is why the Timberwolves struggled in fourth quarters because he wasnt able to score. Rubio certainly never made a basket in his life. His offensive arsenal is complete but not punishing. Kyrie doesnt have that problem so he takes over games frequently.

He is a great rebounder, can easily have a case for best in the league. But great rebounding doesnt mean much if your defense isnt up to par. He doesnt stat pad his rebounds mind you, but you can see him not contest well and then go for the rebound.

Good outlet passer and can pass extremely well when outside the three point line, but he's not gonna create for his teammates with his passes frequently. Very few bigs do.

So what you have is a good scorer but not a punishing one. A great rebounder but not a good defender. And a good passer but not a good creator.

That's how you get 26/12/4 and have "empty" stats.

[stephanieg]

People still propping Love up as an all time great PF.

Can't wait to see how he does in the playoffs.

[ralph_i_el]

So why do people consider prime Duncan better than him?

According to those stats:

Posting up - Kevin Love is about the same or even better than Duncan

Rebounding - edge to Kevin Love

Passing- Love is clearly a better passer

Shooting- Kevin Love is clearly better all around shooter

Defense- Duncan is better

OP, do you think prime Duncan was better?

Defense is half the game.

[IncarceratedBob]

So why do people consider prime Duncan better than him?

According to those stats:

Posting up - Kevin Love is about the same or even better than Duncan

Rebounding - edge to Kevin Love

Passing- Love is clearly a better passer

Shooting- Kevin Love is clearly better all around shooter

Defense- Duncan is better

OP, do you think prime Duncan was better?
No one is gonna argue that Love is a far better offensively skilled player than Duncan but his defense is suspect at best and he doesn't have the team accomplishments that TD does.

[CarlosBoozer]

Maybe they'll let Klove postup during the playoffs, when the offense is slowed down.

[T_L_P]

No excuses to miss the playoffs, yes.

To win the championship*

The Spurs had no excuses last year according to you when OAP Duncan was, what, their 4th best player?

Love is in his prime and is Cleveland's 3rd best player (and prime Love > prime Duncan).

Don't run away from it. I know Love isn't.

[T_L_P]

No one is gonna argue that Love is a far better offensively skilled player than Duncan but his defense is suspect at best and he doesn't have the team accomplishments that TD does.

Just like how Davis is more skilled, even though you couldn't point to anything specific?

[AnaheimLakers24]

I'll answer seriously.

People see Kevin Love's numbers and think he's that good, which is why PER is overrated. It just adds stats together.

He can score 26 a game, but he doesnt create for himself well. Which is why the Timberwolves struggled in fourth quarters because he wasnt able to score. Rubio certainly never made a basket in his life. His offensive arsenal is complete but not punishing. Kyrie doesnt have that problem so he takes over games frequently.

He is a great rebounder, can easily have a case for best in the league. But great rebounding doesnt mean much if your defense isnt up to par. He doesnt stat pad his rebounds mind you, but you can see him not contest well and then go for the rebound.

Good outlet passer and can pass extremely well when outside the three point line, but he's not gonna create for his teammates with his passes frequently. Very few bigs do.

So what you have is a good scorer but not a punishing one. A great rebounder but not a good defender. And a good passer but not a good creator.

That's how you get 26/12/4 and have "empty" stats.
You never seen love play in minny

[kshutts1]

Honestly, Love is a really good fit for the Cavs, but he's just not necessary. The fit is fine, but the money paid is just ridiculous. Cavs would be better off with a cheaper stretch 4 option and filling in other holes.

Instead of Love, insert Ryan Anderson, Ajinca, Jimmer and a pick.

Love's role on the Cavs is easily replaced by Anderson, even though Love is the significantly better player. Ajinca and Jimmer add size and shooting to the bench. The pick is to compensate for the ridiculous talent discrepancy.

Both teams are set up better, IMO. Though obviously that trade is not realistic, as the window is closed, and Ajinca and Jimmer are on one year deals. But just an example of what I meant.

[ImKobe]

The league without good Kobe is worse; the league without Kobe of the past two years? Meh.

But this thread isn't about him.

Of course it's boring when you don't have new material to use to make troll posts about him/hate on him during games.

[riseagainst]

and people are bashing Kevin Love for being a scrub. Oh wait those people are the lebrontards.
:oldlol:

[ralph_i_el]

Honestly, Love is a really good fit for the Cavs, but he's just not necessary. The fit is fine, but the money paid is just ridiculous. Cavs would be better off with a cheaper stretch 4 option and filling in other holes.

Instead of Love, insert Ryan Anderson, Ajinca, Jimmer and a pick.

Love's role on the Cavs is easily replaced by Anderson, even though Love is the significantly better player. Ajinca and Jimmer add size and shooting to the bench. The pick is to compensate for the ridiculous talent discrepancy.

Both teams are set up better, IMO. Though obviously that trade is not realistic, as the window is closed, and Ajinca and Jimmer are on one year deals. But just an example of what I meant.

Anthony Davis + Love :eek:

Give a good coach a starting lineup of

Holiday
Gordon
Evans
Love
Davis

and you could lead the league in scoring. Evans lack of shooting is covered by shooting at the other 4 positions. All of those guys can score. Holiday, Evans, Love all are great passers. Davis is a great face-up big and Love is good down low when he's not spacing the floor.

I know this trade would never happen, but it would be awesome

[3ball]

Well, 0.99, which is 2nd best in the league for any player with 200+ possessions (#1 is Donatas Motiejunas ).

http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/post-up/?dir=1&sort=PPP&CF=Poss*GE*200

Somehow he has games where all his shots are 3-pointers. :kobe:


And there you have it - Al Jefferson is the only one posting up a super-high percentage of the time, just like the bigs in previous eras, and yet he's leading the league in post PPP - this is statistical proof that it's easier than ever to score on the post, since all these bigs from 1996 were better post scorers than Al Jefferson:

Hakeem
Shaq
Robinson
Ewing
Alonzo
Sabonis
Karl Malone
Barkley
Webber
Kemp

And probably Rik Smits, Vin Baker, Dino Radja, and certainly Derrick Coleman.

The league changed the rules in 2005 to increase the percentages on ball movement and dribble penetration, which have surpassed post-ups in some spots.. But Al Jefferson is proof that the percentages on post-ups themselves hasn't diminished at all - infact, they've probably increased, along with everything else (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html).

[Chadwin]

And there you have it - Al Jefferson is the only one posting up a super-high percentage of the time, just like the bigs in previous eras, and yet he's leading the league in post PPP - this is statistical proof that it's easier than ever to score on the post, since all these bigs from 1996 were better post scorers than Al Jefferson:

Hakeem
Shaq
Robinson
Ewing
Alonzo
Sabonis
Karl Malone
Barkley
Webber
Kemp

And probably Rik Smits, Vin Baker, Dino Radja, and certainly Derrick Coleman.

The league changed the rules in 2005 to increase the percentages on ball movement and dribble penetration, which have surpassed post-ups in some spots.. But Al Jefferson is proof that the percentages on post-ups themselves hasn't diminished at all - infact, they've probably increased, along with everything else (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html).

I know you get a lot of shit, but you do make a good point here.

[3ball]

I know you get a lot of shit, but you do make a good point here.


It's not my point - it's the NBA's point, but for some reason, posters in this forum shoot the messenger (see bottom of interview about post play):

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html


NBA.COM: Since the hand-checking rule was interpreted differently beginning in the 2004-05 season, the game has opened up. Players are penetrating and the floor is spread. As a result, scoring has risen every season. Was this anticipated back in 2004?

STU JACKSON: Our objective was to allow for more offensive freedom by not allowing defenders to hand-, forearm- or body-check ball handlers. By doing so, we encouraged more dribble penetration. As players penetrated more, it produced higher quality shots for the ball handler as well as shots for teammates on passes back out to perimeter. When NBA players get higher quality shots -- having more time to shoot -- they tend to make more of them.


NBA.COM: Shooting percentages have risen since 2004-05 regardless of location -- at-the-rim shots, short- and deep-mid range and 3-pointers. Does this surprise you, especially the higher percentages from 3-point range?

STU JACKSON: It doesn't. With the rule and interpretation changes, it has become more difficult for defenders to defend penetration, cover the entire floor on defensive rotations and recover to shooters. With more dribble penetration, ball handlers are getting more opportunities at the rim.


NBA.COM: Doesn't the wide-open style benefit certain types of players? For example, wing players vs. frontcourt players?

STU JACKSON: The benefits of an open game are not limited to just perimeter players. An open game can benefit a post player as well. Remember, if the players are spaced wider and using more of the court, then defenses have to play those players closely because they're good shooters. The style actually serves to open up the middle of the floor. If a team has an effective post player, he would have more room to operate in the post.

[HurricaneKid]

Well, 0.99, which is 2nd best in the league for any player with 200+ possessions (#1 is Donatas Motiejunas ).

http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/post-up/?dir=1&sort=PPP&CF=Poss*GE*200

Somehow he has games where all his shots are 3-pointers. :kobe:

So what?

.99 ppp is <<<< Cavs avg.

Which is also why you don't see more post players in the league. Its an inefficient use of a possession.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

His problem is that hes bad at actually establishing post position. Once he gets the ball hes good...but he has trouble actually getting the ball.

[Pushxx]

Is he good? Can Cleveland get him?

[chips93]

kyrie scores 1.1 points per isolation possession.

and obviously its easier to get kyrie the ball in position to go iso, than to get love the ball in the post.

but nobody cares because kyrie is selfish :rolleyes:

[Sakkreth]

2 Lithuanians in top 3 :pimp: