Cavs with LeBron: 39-16, Without: 2-9

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Impact. :applause:

[riseagainst]

:applause:

[theoneneo]

This is thread worthy because?

Get excited that a team is better with Lbron brehs

[imdaman99]

Let's see the numbers after the trades. Cavs with Lebron pre-trades were nothing to get excited over.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Let's see the numbers after the trades. Cavs with Lebron pre-trades were nothing to get excited over.
Since trade without LeBron 1-2 and 21-4 with I believe.

[riseagainst]

that's why he's the GOAT, always making team records better.
:applause:

[pauk]

This is why i think he should win the MVP, the immediate transformation of the both teams he left/joined is nuts...

One that fought for best record in the NBA and immediately struggles after he left (despite some nice trades) in Miami....

One that would struggle to not have one of the worst records in the NBA and now that he joined them is a team that would have the best record in the NBA right now if they woulda clicked earlier in the season, like they are now.

He plays 1st all-defense and best overall offense with the highest IQ/intangibles/leadership on both ends of the floor and comes with a very recent championship experience... ofcourse the impact / valuability is bigger than anybody else....

The Lebron hate is huge.... people are bored, they want something fresh to give the MVP to.... they want a new story.... (Curry, Harden)....

I know its not fair, but the MVP should go to the deserving MVP recepient no matter what.... even if that player has to recieve every single MVP every season......

Think about this, if Lebron was some random player just showing up for the 1st time this season........ he would be the #1 MVP on the race right now....

[RedBlackAttack]

Cavs are 1-5 without Kyrie, fwiw.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Cavs are 1-5 without Kyrie, fwiw.

How many of those (if any) were also without LeBron?

[Nash]

This is why i think he should win the MVP, the immediate transformation of the both teams he left/joined is nuts...

One that fought for best record in the NBA and immediately struggles after he left (despite some nice trades) in Miami....

One that would struggle to not have one of the worst records in the NBA and now that he joined them is a team that would have the best record in the NBA right now if they woulda clicked earlier in the season, like they are now.

He plays 1st all-defense and best overall offense with the highest IQ/intangibles/leadership on both ends of the floor and comes with a very recent championship experience... ofcourse the impact / valuability is bigger than anybody else....

The Lebron hate is huge.... people are bored, they want something fresh to give the MVP to.... they want a new story.... (Curry, Harden)....

I know its not fair, but the MVP should go to the deserving MVP recepient no matter what.... even if that player has to recieve every single MVP every season......

Think about this, if Lebron was some random player just showing up for the 1st time this season........ he would be the #1 MVP on the race right now....
what about Harden who has carried Houston to wins without Howard?

Harden is the mvp

[RedBlackAttack]

How many of those (if any) were also without LeBron?
Don't have the numbers in front of me, but a couple I think... just like a couple of the games without LeBron were also without Kyrie.

Also, the vast majority of the games minus LeBron came before the trade which overhauled the roster. Fact is, the team was playing terrible in the games leading up to his taking time off.

That's sort of a warped way to judge this team.

To me, everything that happened prior to Jan. 15 is of very little significance with this team.

[Nevaeh]

Impact. :applause:


Cavs with Lebron= 0 championships. :applause: Dat Impact!!

Sorry, couldn't resist after skimming thru Dragic's "Pippen 6 Rings" thread.

[Lebronxrings]

i watch a ton of cavs games and i can tell you that this team would not even make the playoffs without lebron. If you thought the knicks were bad, pray you never see lebron heavily injured...

[JT123]

i watch a ton of cavs games and i can tell you that this team would not even make the playoffs without lebron. If you thought the knicks were bad, pray you never see lebron heavily injured...
QFT

[Alamо]

Cavs are 1-5 without Kyrie, fwiw.


Might as well just give him the MVP right now

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Cavs are 1-5 without Kyrie, fwiw.
2 or 3 were without LeBron too though. still overall they're winning at a 60 win pace with both LeBron and Kyrie :bowdown:

[pauk]

what about Harden who has carried Houston to wins without Howard?

Harden is the mvp

Harden i think is more MVP than Curry is at least, its just my opinion.... he is doing more with less than Curry, GSW is probably the best defensive team in the NBA (not because of Curry) and he has better pieces offensively to his disposal.... its not like this is Rose's MVP candidacy in 2011, Rose had NOTHING offensively, it was all him 1 on 5 offensively.... Yes Curry has the best record in the NBA and yes he is the guy running the show, thats why he is a heavy candidate, but you have to look into the context between Curry/Harden and Lebron when deciding where the MVP should land.... and it starts with the context of supporting cast on both ends of the floor and then looking at why/how the players impact/transform their teams with their presence or lack there of....

If anybody should win it over Lebron at the end of the season i wouldnt whine to much if Harden won it at least....

[Dresta]

Don't have the numbers in front of me, but a couple I think... just like a couple of the games without LeBron were also without Kyrie.

Also, the vast majority of the games minus LeBron came before the trade which overhauled the roster. Fact is, the team was playing terrible in the games leading up to his taking time off.

That's sort of a warped way to judge this team.

To me, everything that happened prior to Jan. 15 is of very little significance with this team.
Not to mention that he decided to wait for one of the hardest periods of the Cavs' schedule before taking time off.

[m00qi]

https://23thorns.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/man-and-his-goat.jpg

[KirbyPls]

https://23thorns.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/man-and-his-goat.jpg

I've never see Shaq look so skinny.

[NZStreetBaller]

So the cavs arent as good without their second best player.... what else is new.

[chazzy]

Ouch, 11 missed games

[Sarcastic]

Cavs are 1-5 without Kyrie, fwiw.


http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

[Droid101]

Since the new players actually started suiting up, I believe they're 1-1 when he's out.

[Sarcastic]

Since the new players actually started suiting up, I believe they're 1-1 when he's out.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

[Prime_Shaq]

GSW is 0-1 without Curry. 0% win rate without Curry. MVP.

[dubeta]

Good thread, this is why LeBron should be MVP

[guy]

Damn do people really think the rest of the Cavs haven't gotten better and wouldn't know how to play together better without Lebron since that timeframe? Do people really think they would be on pace for the worst record in the league, which is what 2-9 would indicate?

This whole with vs without argument is so ridiculously stupid and out of hand. The Cavs could literally win the next 3 championships and 20 years from now if ISH is as dumb as it is now some idiot who probably never watched them play would be saying "OMG LEBRON WITHOUT ANY HELP 2-9 WITHOUT HIM IMPACT IMPACT IMPACT IMPACt IMPACT:hammerhead: " And I'm not exaggerating, those are the types of arguments made around here. Do people not see how incredibly stupid that is?

[jayfan]

Going by this with / without standard, Mozgov is the team MVP.

Look how the team played before he arrived, then once he arrived. No contest.





.

[JT123]

Since the new players actually started suiting up, I believe they're 1-1 when he's out.
1-3 without Bron since the trades. :no:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

2015 Cavaliers RS

------------------------------------------------------------

Lebron OUT, Irving, Love IN (8 G)

-5.56 SRS, -1.2 Offense, +6.0 Defense, -7.2 Net

-----------------------------

Lebron IN, Irving, Love IN (50 G)

+7.44 SRS, +9.1 Offense (115 ORTG), +0.5 Defense, +8.6 Net

------------------------------------------------------------

Since Lebron's return

------------------------------------------------------------

Lebron IN, Irving, Love IN (23 G)

+12.90 SRS, +11.2 Offense (117.2 ORTG), -2.9 Defense, +14.1 Net

-----------------------------

Lebron IN (26 G)

+11.77 SRS, +10.7 Offense, -1.6 Defense, +12.3 Net

------------------------------------------------------------


Hold this L haters

[jayfan]

Cavs without Mozgov: 19-17

Cavs with Mozgov: 22-7


Mozgov = Team MVP







.

[DMAVS41]

A little misleading given the way the injuries and trade coincided, but there is no doubt that the Lebron that came back after those 11 missed games or whatever is the clear cut best player in the world.

[TylerOO]

Take away the first 20 or so games too because they were gelling.

[DatAsh]

A little misleading given the way the injuries and trade coincided, but there is no doubt that the Lebron that came back after those 11 missed games or whatever is the clear cut best player in the world.

Agreed.

I don't think you can compare the Cavs at the start of the season to the Cavs with Mozgov and Smith. Those guys have been huge.

Still, Lebron is the best player in the game, by far. He may not have the best stats - for the first time in a long time - but come playoff time, there's no player I'd take over Lebron. His leadership, experience, and intangibles more than make up for any statistical disadvantage he may have at the moment.

[RedBlackAttack]

Agreed.

I don't think you can compare the Cavs at the start of the season to the Cavs with Mozgov and Smith. Those guys have been huge.

Still, Lebron is the best player in the game, by far. He may not have the best stats - for the first time in a long time - but come playoff time, there's no player I'd take over Lebron. His leadership, experience, and intangibles more than make up for any statistical disadvantage he may have at the moment.
I'm not so sure. His statline matches up pretty damn well with anyone.

26 points on 49.1% FG, 7.3 assists, 5.8 rebounds

That's pretty good. :oldlol:

His turnovers are higher this year and he doesn't have the crazy 55+% field goal percentage, but there aren't too many guys in the league who even approach those all-around numbers/efficiency.

[NZStreetBaller]

Why do people always bash their favourite players team in order to make him seem like some sort of 1 man god haha.

[SouBeachTalents]

I'm not so sure. His statline matches up pretty damn well with anyone.

26 points on 49.1% FG, 7.3 assists, 5.8 rebounds

That's pretty good. :oldlol:

His turnovers are higher this year and he doesn't have the crazy 55+% field goal percentage, but there aren't too many guys in the league who even approach those all-around numbers/efficiency.

:oldlol: Those are seen as a "down" year for him

[RedBlackAttack]

1-3 without Bron since the trades. :no:
And 0-2 without Kyrie since the trade. We can do this all night. How about we just say that they're a good team when healthy?

[zizozain]

true fan RedBlackAttack: 1

lebron stans : 0

[SpaceJammeR]

still doesnt pass the eye test.

[Paul George 24]

Impact. :applause:

spurs 2peat :applause: bye cavs :banana:

[Sarcastic]

2015 Cavaliers RS

------------------------------------------------------------

Lebron OUT, Irving, Love IN (8 G)

-5.56 SRS, -1.2 Offense, +6.0 Defense, -7.2 Net

-----------------------------

Lebron IN, Irving, Love IN (50 G)

+7.44 SRS, +9.1 Offense (115 ORTG), +0.5 Defense, +8.6 Net

------------------------------------------------------------

Since Lebron's return

------------------------------------------------------------

Lebron IN, Irving, Love IN (23 G)

+12.90 SRS, +11.2 Offense (117.2 ORTG), -2.9 Defense, +14.1 Net

-----------------------------

Lebron IN (26 G)

+11.77 SRS, +10.7 Offense, -1.6 Defense, +12.3 Net

------------------------------------------------------------


Hold this L haters

Nice moving of the goal posts. You made the thread by posting with the records. What are records with players in/out.

[No_Look604]

Yeah but didn't Lebron take his two week, mid-season vacation to duck the entire Western Conference?! :confusedshrug:

[SexSymbol]

I'm not so sure. His statline matches up pretty damn well with anyone.

26 points on 49.1% FG, 7.3 assists, 5.8 rebounds

That's pretty good. :oldlol:

His turnovers are higher this year and he doesn't have the crazy 55+% field goal percentage, but there aren't too many guys in the league who even approach those all-around numbers/efficiency.
Harden, Davis, Westbrook, Curry

[k0kakw0rld]

what about Harden who has carried Houston to wins without Howard?

Harden is the mvp
0-4 vs Curry

[sd3035]

Cavs have a higher winning percentage without LeBald than without Kyrie

Kyrie MVP

/thread

[RedBlackAttack]

Harden, Davis, Westbrook, Curry
Westbrook doesn't have the efficiency. The other three? Fine.

So, like I said, not many guys even approach his numbers/efficiency. I think three qualifies as "not many."

[tmacattack33]

Heat with Lebron: Went to the Finals all 4 years, won twice

Heat this year, without Lebron, and before Bosh's injury: around .500

[Dragic4Life]

Heat with Lebron: Went to the Finals all 4 years, won twice

Heat this year, without Lebron, and before Bosh's injury: around .500
:applause:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Heat with Lebron: Went to the Finals all 4 years, won twice

Heat this year, without Lebron, and before Bosh's injury: around .500
And let's not forget they didn't just lose LeBron - they replaced him with Deng, Mcroberts and Wilt Chamberlain reincarnated and STILL sucked.

[Quickening]

:applause:

:applause:

[Fudge]

Wow cavs have Lebran Jame

No excuses.

[Dragic4Life]

No excuses.
I thought that was KD's catchphrase?

[Keno]

real mvp. :applause: i have a feeling he's going to get robbed again this year.

[jayfan]

real mvp. :applause: i have a feeling he's going to get robbed again this year.

How can you be MVP of the league when you're not MVP of your own team?


Cavs without Mozgov: 19-17

Cavs with Mozgov: 22-7

[FireDavidKahn]

How can you be MVP of the league when you're not MVP of your own team?


Cavs without Mozgov: 19-17

Cavs with Mozgov: 22-7
*****, you ignoring JR Smiths impact?:facepalm

[SilkkTheShocker]

People can try to bring down LeBron's impact. We all know the truth though. No player in NBA history has his kind of impact

[ThePhantomCreep]

How can you be MVP of the league when you're not MVP of your own team?


Cavs without Mozgov: 19-17

Cavs with Mozgov: 22-7

:lol

[Smoke117]

Just to play devil's advocate: How is a team built around a superstar (in this case, Lebron) supposed to do when he's out? The entire offense revolves around him and players were brought in to COMPLIMENT him. Lebron is about the only player on the team you can count on to play make for the others...so when he's out that it falls apart shouldn't be very surprising. Like in that Wall vs Irving thread...could anyone deny the team would have done better than 2-9 with Lebron out if Wall was manning the point and not Irving?

[tpols]

Just to play devil's advocate: How is a team built around a superstar (in this case, Lebron) supposed to do when he's out? The entire offense revolves around him and players were brought in to COMPLIMENT him. Lebron is about the only player on the team you can count on to play make for the others...so when he's out that it falls apart shouldn't be very surprising. Like in that Wall vs Irving thread...could anyone deny the team would have done better than 2-9 with Lebron out if Wall was manning the point and not Irving?

Nope.. Lebron decided to hit the hot tub when the cavs went on a tough west coast trip.. and this was before all the new trade pieces were implemented. Cleveland got blown out by Detroit the last game lebron played before his break.. their defense was abysmal at that point.there's absolutely nothing wall could've done

[Bobby13]

Heat with LeBron: 16 straight regular season wins against the Raptors...16-0...
Heat without LeBron: Blown out yesterday at the ACC

[eeeeeebro]

so replace lebron with someone else at 17 mill per year and see if they are 2 - 9 without him