BREAKING: LeBron rapidly climbing real plus minus ranks

[RoundMoundOfReb]

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

Wast at just 5. something a month and a half ago iirc. :bowdown:

[SugarHill]

Middleton? :coleman:

[J Shuttlesworth]

Middleton? :coleman:
I said the same thing, but supposedly he's pretty good and makes the most out of his minutes in the game

[Done_And_Done]

Breaking?

[J Shuttlesworth]

He's in the top 10 in SF's on the defensive end. Very stacked position for defense

http://i.imgur.com/ZJ0dGbK.png

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Hel pass ariza so hel be 3rd behind Leonard and green among sf who actually play significant minutes.

[DMAVS41]

Middleton? :coleman:

He's been playing great all year. Very good player he's turned into.

Saw this coming last year. Was talking all summer about the Cavs trying to make a trade for him because I think he'd fit perfectly with them.

[Pushxx]

Are you serious?

RPM and DRPM are even worse than PER. At least the retarded, arbitrary formula for PER is public. ESPN doesn't even show how RPM is calculated. They just say it "takes into account teammates, opponents and additional factors."

:oldlol: @ anybody that actually looks at that stat. What does it tell you?

[J Shuttlesworth]

Are you serious?

RPM and DRPM are even worse than PER. At least the retarded, arbitrary formula for PER is public. ESPN doesn't even show how RPM is calculated. They just say it "takes into account teammates, opponents and additional factors."

:oldlol: @ anybody that actually looks at that stat. What does it tell you?
While I do agree to an extent, this is fairly conclusive of the MVP race

http://i.imgur.com/T8kclBb.png

[aj1987]

Are you serious?

RPM and DRPM are even worse than PER. At least the retarded, arbitrary formula for PER is public. ESPN doesn't even show how RPM is calculated. They just say it "takes into account teammates, opponents and additional factors."

:oldlol: @ anybody that actually looks at that stat. What does it tell you?
"Player's estimated on-court impact on team performance, measured in net point differential per 100 offensive and defensive possessions."

"Player's estimated on-court impact on team defensive performance, measured in points allowed per 100 defensive possessions"

How hard is that to understand? LeBron leads the league in RAPM as well. He has been better defensively than last season and form the beginning of the season.

[Pushxx]

"Player's estimated on-court impact on team performance, measured in net point differential per 100 offensive and defensive possessions."

"Player's estimated on-court impact on team defensive performance, measured in points allowed per 100 defensive possessions"

How hard is that to understand? LeBron leads the league in RAPM as well. He has been better defensively than last season and form the beginning of the season.

K go and calculate an example for me and come back to me. There are tons of respectable NBA websites that laugh at arbitrarily calculated stats, especially ones like RPM that has a hidden formula.

[aj1987]

K go and calculate an example for me and come back to me. There are tons of respectable NBA websites that laugh at arbitrarily calculated stats, especially ones like RPM that has a hidden formula.
They have all those stats on the NBA website. You could go do it if you really wanted to. Anyways, as I said, it's not like this is the only stat which has LeBron there. RAPM has him at #1, IIRC.

[Pushxx]

They have all those stats on the NBA website. You could go do it if you really wanted to. Anyways, as I said, it's not like this is the only stat which has LeBron there. RAPM has him at #1, IIRC.

I didn't say anything bad about LeBron, dumbass. I'm just saying the statistic is bogus. Read, mother****er.

[aj1987]

I didn't say anything bad about LeBron, dumbass. I'm just saying the statistic is bogus. Read, mother****er.
Your reading comprehension is on par with a first grader. I'm just using LeBron as an example. Those players are at the top on the lists of other advanced stats as well and are the front runners for MVP. No stat is perfect and needs context when it's used.

[SwishSquared]

K go and calculate an example for me and come back to me. There are tons of respectable NBA websites that laugh at arbitrarily calculated stats, especially ones like RPM that has a hidden formula.Sauce?

Saw this coming last year. Was talking all summer about the Cavs trying to make a trade for him because I think he'd fit perfectly with them.Agreed. He's a nice fit for almost any team. Good defensive versatility and is hitting like half his corner 3s this year. Would be a great fit alongside Kyrie, LBJ, and Love. He may be getting a little overrated by the analytics crowd but he's a very solid player. Like a poor man's Klay Thompson right now, but perhaps better D/worse O

[Dave3]

While I do agree to an extent, this is fairly conclusive of the MVP race

http://i.imgur.com/T8kclBb.png
But last year Durant was 4th behind Iggy. That alone would be reason enough for me to throw it out.

[HurricaneKid]

Are you serious?

RPM and DRPM are even worse than PER. At least the retarded, arbitrary formula for PER is public. ESPN doesn't even show how RPM is calculated. They just say it "takes into account teammates, opponents and additional factors."

:oldlol: @ anybody that actually looks at that stat. What does it tell you?

RPM (and DRPM) is a simple regression analysis. It takes note of who is on the floor during every point scored in the NBA. Then makes the natural adjustments based on who is on the floor with you, etc.

Now it IS ESPN so I would be surprised if it weren't PI (prior informed) with box score credit, much like xRAPM.

But the goal of regression analysis is to take the name off the jersey to see who actually has impact on the score as players who control the ball and have high counting stats aren't always impactful on the stat that matters: the score (see Gay, Rudy).

[RoundMoundOfReb]

RPM (and DRPM) is a simple regression analysis. It takes note of who is on the floor during every point scored in the NBA. Then makes the natural adjustments based on who is on the floor with you, etc.

Now it IS ESPN so I would be surprised if it weren't PI (prior informed) with box score credit, much like xRAPM.

But the goal of regression analysis is to take the name off the jersey to see who actually has impact on the score as players who control the ball and have high counting stats aren't always impactful on the stat that matters: the score (see Gay, Rudy).
Pushxx ethered. :oldlol:

[navy]

But last year Durant was 4th behind Iggy. That alone would be reason enough for me to throw it out.
I wouldnt throw it out, but I wouldnt use it as the end all.

[knicksman]

I dont see his 2/5 climbing up after this season:lol

[Dave3]

I wouldnt throw it out, but I wouldnt use it as the end all.
Without knowing how they get the formula though, there's no context around it to be able to know how to use it. Like with PER, we know it's an efficiency stat, so you use it in the context of 2 players who play similar minutes and roles to compare them. With this thing though, we don't even know in which case it's useful and in which case it's not.

[RedBlackAttack]

While I do agree to an extent, this is fairly conclusive of the MVP race

http://i.imgur.com/T8kclBb.png
When you aren't divulging the equation for attaining the statistics, it is no surprise that they're going to adhere pretty closely with popular opinion. They obviously want this stat to be taken seriously. If they use an equation and it spits out Khris Middleton No. 1, it obviously won't be taken seriously.

I'd guess that they reserve the right to re-order the rankings if they don't look right based solely on the equation... which is why they don't disclose the actual formula.

It's about as worthless as a statistic can get, imho. They could toss any order of players out there and we wouldn't have any idea how they came to that conclusion. It's pointless... even moreso than other relatively pointless statistics that ESPN endorses.

[aj1987]

...and increased HGH use.
Hey there, pedo. Join the Australian KKK yet?

[Alamо]

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM



Look who else is climbing up. He's #5 on the rpm list now. He's glowing up right before our eyes. He's a superstar

[Blue&Orange]

How hard is that to understand? LeBron leads the league in RAPM as well. He has been better defensively than last season and form the beginning of the season.
No one with a single once of intelligence can take this statement and that stat seriously.

[20Four]

No one with a single once of intelligence can take this statement and that stat seriously.
Nobody takes aj1987 seriously, hes a little hoodrat

[aj1987]

No one with a single once of intelligence can take this statement and that stat seriously.
No wonder Knicks fans are such idiots. You guys don't actually watch Basketball.


Nobody takes aj1987 seriously, hes a little hoodrat
Go play with your tits, midget.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Nobody takes aj1987 seriously, hes a little hoodrat

Nobody takes you seriously though.

:hammerhead:

[warriorfan]

He's in the top 10 in SF's on the defensive end. Very stacked position for defense

http://i.imgur.com/ZJ0dGbK.png


Green is and plays power forward.

[20Four]

Nobody takes you seriously though.

:hammerhead:
its fine I never said anybody did

[Blue&Orange]

No wonder Knicks fans are such idiots. You guys don't actually watch Basketball.


This retard :lol everyone was talking about how Lebron defensive effort was atrocious start of season, gifs were mare, cavs fans were displease and you are talking about how his defense was better since start of season? I should watch basketball?

You are as dumb as the explanation of that amazing stat, is a estimate? lol, +\- stats are the dumbest stats around, in whatever form presented.

Off course Lebron is climbing dude been of a stat padding rampage, still on court playing with his bench against the other teams bench... the same dude that whined about playing to many minutes just a couple months ago.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

This retard :lol everyone was talking about how Lebron defensive effort was atrocious start of season, gifs were mare, cavs fans were displease and you are talking about how his defense was better since start of season? I should watch basketball?

You are as dumb as the explanation of that amazing stat, is a estimate? lol, +\- stats are the dumbest stats around, in whatever form presented.

Off course Lebron is climbing dude been of a stat padding rampage, still on court playing with his bench against the other teams bench... the same dude that whined about playing to many minutes just a couple months ago.
RAPM/RPM factor in who you're playing against.

And yeah in the beginning of the year when his defense was bad he was a negative...since then he's played great defense and his numbers are positive

[Im Still Ballin]

The haters are so angry

[Blue&Orange]

RAPM/RPM factor in who you're playing against.

And yeah in the beginning of the year when his defense was bad he was a negative...since then he's played great defense and his numbers are positive
Josh Smith had a higher RAPM than Michael Jordan ever had.

:bowdown:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Josh Smith had a higher RAPM than Michael Jordan ever had.

:bowdown:
not true. true rapm for the 90s can not be calculated. it is just box score rapm...like per.. more specific information is needed for true rapm.

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

RAPM/RPM factor in who you're playing against.

And yeah in the beginning of the year when his defense was bad he was a negative...since then he's played great defense and his numbers are positive
Currys RAPM this year as per bbref: 9.4
Harden: 8.5
LeBron: 7.1

Wins produced/48: too lazy to look it up but both curry and harden have a massive edge.


Win shares/48: ditto

AND they both missed 10 less games.

Sorry, not the MVP this year.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Currys RAPM this year as per bbref: 9.4
Harden: 8.5
LeBron: 7.1

Wins produced/48: too lazy to look it up but both curry and harden have a massive edge.


Win shares/48: ditto

AND they both missed 10 less games.

Sorry, not the MVP this year.

I never said that RPM/RAPM is the be all end all..

Secondly BBALLREF, doesn't have true RAPM they have BPM...which is a box score arbitrary calculation like PER IIRC. Not the same thing. LeBron's impact goes well beyond raw #s.

[aj1987]

This retard :lol everyone was talking about how Lebron defensive effort was atrocious start of season, gifs were mare, cavs fans were displease and you are talking about how his defense was better since start of season? I should watch basketball?

You are as dumb as the explanation of that amazing stat, is a estimate? lol, +\- stats are the dumbest stats around, in whatever form presented.

Off course Lebron is climbing dude been of a stat padding rampage, still on court playing with his bench against the other teams bench... the same dude that whined about playing to many minutes just a couple months ago.
Jesus Christ, you're retarded. I did say that LeBron's defense was terrible at the beginning of the season and last season. Learn to read, retarded Knicks fan... :facepalm

Also, I never said RPM/RAPM/etc. are "amazing stats". I NEVER even said it's a good stat. From one of my earlier posts in this thread: "No stat is perfect and needs context when it's used."

Go back to first grade, kid.

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

I never said that RPM/RAPM is the be all end all..

Secondly BBALLREF, doesn't have true RAPM they have BPM...which is a box score arbitrary calculation like PER IIRC. Not the same thing. LeBron's impact goes well beyond raw #s.

You're right, my mistake.

ESPN has RAPM ....and LeBron is third.....behind.....wait for it..... Curry and Harden. With both of them having played more minutes, too.

And they don't even show you how its calculated (unlike BPM). It could just be all one huge fabrication. That's hilarious to me. You fellas are using it to make an MVP case for LeBron and we have no clue how ESPN calculates it or how predictive their version of it is.

But anyways....let's say RAPM isn't the be-all end-all ti you. What other metrics can you turn to? Its pretty clear RAPM is the only stat that even puts LeBron on even the same stratosphere as those two.