Is LeBron going to be willing to take a backseat to Kyrie as he ages...?

[JerrySeinfeld]

We saw Wade take a backseat to LeBron starting in the 2012 season and the Heat won 2 titles as a result.

It's already obvious that Kyrie is the guy you want getting the ball in the clutch for Cleveland. He's way less turnover prone, way better at creating a good look for himself, and is less likely to run the clock all the way down just to kick the ball out to a role player.

This dynamic between Kyrie and LeBron will really be the biggest factor for how I rate LeBron as a a player and how I evaluate his legacy. Will he be willing to take a backseat to Kyrie or will his ego get in the way and will he hurt his teams chances of winning it all as a result?

[warriorfan]

yes LeShook prefers the back seat

[aj1987]

yes LeShook prefers the back seat
You definitely are AnaheimLakers24.

LeBron is going to be a First Team All-NBA for the next 3-4 years. After that, he probably will.

[navy]

You definitely are AnaheimLakers24.
JerrySeinfeld is Russwest as well. :oldlol:

[rhowen4]

yes definitely

[aj1987]

JerrySeinfeld is Russwest as well. :oldlol:
Yeah somebody pointed that out to me a couple of weeks ago. Dude is dumb AF.

[SwishSquared]

Important to note that LBJ was the better player when Wade stepped aside. Might take a couple years for Kyrie to surpass LBJ as a player, whether offensively, defensively, or the total package. Given LBJ's relative unselfishness (on the court) and BBIQ, I think he realizes that winning at the highest level is more important for his legacy than trying to upstage a teammate on the rise on the path to team success.

In b4 '11 Finals jokes...

[Cocaine80s]

He will take a backseat after Durant comes to Cleveland. Of course, Lebron will have to show him the ropes for a couple years but Durant can still win a couple fmvps after Lebron turns 35/36

[warriorfan]

You definitely are AnaheimLakers24.

LeBron is going to be a First Team All-NBA for the next 3-4 years. After that, he probably will.

Is this the 2nd or 3rd poster you have accused me of being? :lol

[aj1987]

Is this the 2nd or 3rd poster you have accused me of being? :lol
2nd. Thought you were Russwest0 for a bit, but even that chipmunk is about 753807493 times smarter than you.

[ButterFace]

Cavs would have been better off with LeBron taking a back seat to Wiggins.

[The_Pharcyde]

he is right now tbh

*picture broke the page -- please resize*
-mods

[J Shuttlesworth]

Of course, but he'll still probably be the facilitator. He just won't be scoring as much

[christian1923]

You thought he was still gonna be in Cleveland?:yaohappy:

[RedBlackAttack]

I'm relatively confident that there will come a day when Kyrie is the best scorer in the league. His talent and skill level is just otherworldly considering his age.

That said, he and LeBron fit together really well. I thought they were going to mesh, but even I didn't expect they'd be this good together this soon. Kyrie is playing the best, most consistent basketball of his career right now and it is on the same floor at the same time as LeBron doing all the things that he does.

People underestimate how difficult it can be to play with a dominant player. It's not always easy. Wade struggled with it. Bosh struggled with it at times and Love is struggling with it at times.

With Kyrie, they were in lockstep almost immediately. LeBron and Kyrie pairing up was pretty much the best thing that could have happened for either of them, in my humble opinion. It's a great match.

I don't see how that will change as LeBron eventually dips out of his prime and Kyrie eventually reaches his prime. It's almost too perfect.

[LEFT4DEAD]

Yes, in terms of being the first scoring option out there. But Lebron doesnt need his scoring to dominate the game. He can dominate the game with his passing and being a point forward.
I can see him averaging about 22ppg along with 8 apg for 5-6 more years.
He is the type of a player who, no matter where he plays he will be the MVP of that team because he dominates the game in so many ways.
As RBA said, they are a great combo, and I think they will be even better with Irving being the primarly scorer and Lebron dishing out assists to him.

[Papaya Petee]

I'm relatively confident that there will come a day when Kyrie is the best scorer in the league. His talent and skill level is just otherworldly considering his age.

That said, he and LeBron fit together really well. I thought they were going to mesh, but even I didn't expect they'd be this good together this soon. Kyrie is playing the best, most consistent basketball of his career right now and it is on the same floor at the same time as LeBron doing all the things that he does.

People underestimate how difficult it can be to play with a dominant player. It's not always easy. Wade struggled with it. Bosh struggled with it at times and Love is struggling with it at times.

With Kyrie, they were in lockstep almost immediately. LeBron and Kyrie pairing up was pretty much the best thing that could have happened for either of them, in my humble opinion. It's a great match.

I don't see how that will change as LeBron eventually dips out of his prime and Kyrie eventually reaches his prime. It's almost too perfect.

How did Wade struggle with it? They were an incredible duo as 4 Finals and 2 titles show for it.

A healthy Wade with Lebron was at 26/6/5/2/1 50% in 2011 and after that year he struggled with injuried not defering to Lebron. He had no problem playing next to Lebron

[plowking]

Lebron will be better than him until he retires. At no point in Kyrie's career will he be considered a better player than Bron.

[RedBlackAttack]

How did Wade struggle with it? They were an incredible duo as 4 Finals and 2 titles show for it.

A healthy Wade with Lebron was at 26/6/5/2/1 50% in 2011 and after that year he struggled with injuried not defering to Lebron. He had no problem playing next to Lebron
I think it was pretty clear to just about everyone that Wade couldn't be at his absolute best offensively at the same time and on the same floor as LeBron. Their games just overlapped. That doesn't mean they weren't great together (they were). It just means that they couldn't totally max out their offensive games on the floor together.

Great players who fit well together actually elevate one another, though. Wade's best individual moments playing with LeBron came when he was dominating the 2011 Finals. James spent much of that series standing and watching, trying to contribute where he could, but clearly not the player we became accustomed to seeing. LeBron's best moments came later when Wade had accepted the fact that LeBron was going to run the show and he'd have to pick his spots.

Now, if you are talking about defensively, they worked really well together. And, those Heat teams always relied on an overwhelming defense when the going got tough.

[navy]

I think it was pretty clear to just about everyone that Wade couldn't be at his absolute best offensively at the same time and on the same floor as LeBron. Their games just overlapped. That doesn't mean they weren't great together (they were). It just means that they couldn't totally max out their offensive games on the floor together.

Great players who fit well together actually elevate one another, though. Wade's best individual moments playing with LeBron came when he was dominating the 2011 Finals. James spent much of that series standing and watching, trying to contribute where he could, but clearly not the player we became accustomed to seeing. LeBron's best moments came later when Wade had accepted the fact that LeBron was going to run the show and he'd have to pick his spots.

Now, if you are talking about defensively, they worked really well together. And, those Heat teams always relied on an overwhelming defense when the going got tough.
2011 Finals wasnt even his best series that year.

The only series Wade and Lebron struggled together as a result of the other was the 2013 Finals. Spacing was all bad and Wade and Lebron were not hitting their shots. They had ups and downs, great series and mediocre series as does any duo, but I the pair was fine. I wouldnt blame Wade for Lebron's 2011 meltdown.

[GrapeApe]

Lebron will be better than him until he retires. At no point in Kyrie's career will he be considered a better player than Bron.

Irving is only 22 years old. Unless LeBron retires quite young, Irving will most definitely surpass him as a player at some point. The age gap is too great. That being said, Lebron has the potential to be very good well into his 30's. I'll be interested to see how he adapts his game.

[nba_55]

Is this the 2nd or 3rd poster you have accused me of being? :lol

You are a former Kobe stan 100%.

[plowking]

Irving is only 22 years old. Unless LeBron retires quite young, Irving will most definitely surpass him as a player at some point. The age gap is too great. That being said, Lebron has the potential to be very good well into his 30's. I'll be interested to see how he adapts his game.

Bron will be a top 5 player the whole time he is in the league, even if he retires at like 36 or 37.

[RedBlackAttack]

2011 Finals wasnt even his best series that year.

The only series Wade and Lebron struggled together was the 2013 Finals. Spacing was all bad and Wade and Lebron were not hitting their shots.
Wade's efficiency and numbers dropped sharply in the playoffs from his years starting in 2004-11 to his runs with LeBron running the show (2012-14).

The reason is pretty obvious, no?

LeBron is best served when he has an open lane and is surrounded by shooters who can space the floor. Wade has always been at his best as a big guard who can run the offense.

They were great enough individually to overcome the stylistic overlaps, but I don't understand pretending like those overlaps didn't exist.

[navy]

Wade's efficiency and numbers dropped sharply in the playoffs from his years starting in 2004-11 to his runs with LeBron running the show (2012-14).

The reason is pretty obvious, no?

LeBron is best served when he has an open lane and is surrounded by shooters who can space the floor. Wade has always been at his best as a big guard who can run the offense.

They were great enough individually to overcome the stylistic overlaps, but I don't understand pretending like those overlaps didn't exist.

Well yeah, he's not even putting up those numbers now with Lebron gone. That's a prime Dwayne Wade. Obviously cant stay healthy enough to go back to that.

[eeeeeebro]

Lebron is the perfect athlete ive met one person like this in my life he was in 5th grade and could do like 50 pull ups its a Mans child that grew up into a mans man there has never been anybody in the NBA like lebron NOR NFL he is a natural beast and he could probably play basketball till 50 years old at a high lvl NOBODY KNOWS... they say he is the king wait till his body gives out to make conclusions.

[Fire Colangelo]

Wade's efficiency and numbers dropped sharply in the playoffs from his years starting in 2004-11 to his runs with LeBron running the show (2012-14).

The reason is pretty obvious, no?

LeBron is best served when he has an open lane and is surrounded by shooters who can space the floor. Wade has always been at his best as a big guard who can run the offense.

They were great enough individually to overcome the stylistic overlaps, but I don't understand pretending like those overlaps didn't exist.

Do you think LeBron and Kyrie will be a better duo than LeBron and Wade?

[plowking]

Wade's efficiency and numbers dropped sharply in the playoffs from his years starting in 2004-11 to his runs with LeBron running the show (2012-14).

The reason is pretty obvious, no?

LeBron is best served when he has an open lane and is surrounded by shooters who can space the floor. Wade has always been at his best as a big guard who can run the offense.

They were great enough individually to overcome the stylistic overlaps, but I don't understand pretending like those overlaps didn't exist.

The reason is injury with Wade. There is no other reason.

I never understood people who said they didn't fit together perfectly. In my opinion, they were a perfect fit. Two great defensive wings, who run on transition, cause havoc with their wingspan, and overpower teams with their physicality.

From 1-4 that Miami team was amazing. The huge drop off at 5 is what stopped them from becoming one of the greatest teams ever, although they certainly are a top 10 team of all time. A DeAndre Jordan type; much like Hassan Whiteside now, would have made us unstoppable.

Your Cleveland team right now is far more balanced with Mozgov at the 5, and has a higher chance of becoming a better and more consistent team IMO. The one lacking thing is firepower from the wings like Bron and Wade had, some of it due to Bron not being quite as good as he was as well, but mainly due to Kyrie not being the defensive juggernaut and transition player Wade is.

[RedBlackAttack]

Do you think LeBron and Kyrie will be a better duo than LeBron and Wade?
Certainly not yet. They haven't played a single playoff game together yet. We won't be able to even compare them fairly until a few years down the line.

And, Kyrie may or may not become as good an individual player as Wade was in those 2011-13 years before his game really started to decline. I personally think he will get there, but we'll see.

What I am saying is that their offensive games appear better suited stylistically and that they play better when they're both on the floor together. Kyrie is having far and away his best individual season this year.

[dubeta]

LOL, if Heat won 2 rings cause Wade took a backseat, then wont it make sense for Kyrie to take a backseat for the Cavs to win? Don't understand OP's logic

Theres so much wrong with this thread :facepalm

[RedBlackAttack]

The reason is injury with Wade. There is no other reason.

I never understood people who said they didn't fit together perfectly. In my opinion, they were a perfect fit. Two great defensive wings, who run on transition, cause havoc with their wingspan, and overpower teams with their physicality.

From 1-4 that Miami team was amazing. The huge drop off at 5 is what stopped them from becoming one of the greatest teams ever, although they certainly are a top 10 team of all time. A DeAndre Jordan type; much like Hassan Whiteside now, would have made us unstoppable.

Your Cleveland team right now is far more balanced with Mozgov at the 5, and has a higher chance of becoming a better and more consistent team IMO. The one lacking thing is firepower from the wings like Bron and Wade had, some of it due to Bron not being quite as good as he was as well, but mainly due to Kyrie not being the defensive juggernaut and transition player Wade is.
I'm essentially talking about the halfcourt offense, which I always felt was their biggest weakness together. Figuring out that dynamic was always a work in progress and I never felt like they were able to completely maximize their respective talents on the same floor at the same time.

They were awesome in transition, great defensively and obviously ridiculous with their individual talent. That's why they won back-to-back titles and nearly a third... went to four straight Finals.

That doesn't happen unless you're a great team. I just never thought in the halfcourt sets that they ever really consistently found a way to make one another even better than they were as individuals. It always -- to me -- looked a bit forced.

It's pretty obvious that, at some point, Wade conceded the running of the offense to LeBron. What I'm saying is that this doesn't always have to happen when great talents come together. Sometimes, they're just a natural fit that don't need to concede anything in the halfcourt. I think that's what James and Irving have done so far.

They may or may not be as good as a prime James and a prime Wade were together, but if it doesn't happen "fit" won't be the reason.

[Fire Colangelo]

Certainly not yet. They haven't played a single playoff game together yet. We won't be able to even compare them fairly until a few years down the line.

And, Kyrie may or may not become as good an individual player as Wade was in those 2011-13 years before his game really started to decline. I personally think he will get there, but we'll see.

What I am saying is that their offensive games appear better suited stylistically and that they play better when they're both on the floor together. Kyrie is having far and away his best individual season this year.

Fair enough. I think Kyrie and LeBron has huge potential offensively. Defensively is where I don't think they'll match up to LeBron and Wade tho

[bluechox2]

lebrons gonna bolt before that happens

[Bigsmoke]

2018 I could see Kyrie taking the Cave over

[LoneyROY7]

Kyrie is a baller. His game is so buttery smooth. :applause:

[jrong]

I think it was pretty clear to just about everyone that Wade couldn't be at his absolute best offensively at the same time and on the same floor as LeBron. Their games just overlapped. That doesn't mean they weren't great together (they were). It just means that they couldn't totally max out their offensive games on the floor together.

Great players who fit well together actually elevate one another, though. Wade's best individual moments playing with LeBron came when he was dominating the 2011 Finals. James spent much of that series standing and watching, trying to contribute where he could, but clearly not the player we became accustomed to seeing. LeBron's best moments came later when Wade had accepted the fact that LeBron was going to run the show and he'd have to pick his spots.

Now, if you are talking about defensively, they worked really well together. And, those Heat teams always relied on an overwhelming defense when the going got tough.

The difference is that while LeBron and Kyrie are both ball-dominant, they're still different players. Kyrie isn't trying to dominate the game with his playmaking. He's looking to score.

LeBron and Wade, on the other hand, are virtually the same player. That's a bit of an oversimplification, but the distinctions come down to stylistic nuances (LeBron's primary attacking attribute is brute force; Wade's is change of direction). In terms of on-court function, they're the same. They are both scorers first, but can also easily dominate as floor generals. When Wade was in his prime, it was reasonable to think of him as a 6'4" LeBron. And even after injuries diminished him, he still played similarly to LeBron, albeit a broken-down version.

And when Wade made the decision to defer, he continued to play the exact same style, only in a reduced capacity due to his reduced touches. He could have adopted Kyrie's mindset and then probably still averaged 23 ppg or so during their last three years together. But, that's not how he plays.

[RedBlackAttack]

The difference is that while LeBron and Kyrie are both ball-dominant, they're still different players. Kyrie isn't trying to dominate the game with his playmaking. He's looking to score.

LeBron and Wade, on the other hand, are virtually the same player. That's a bit of an oversimplification, but the distinctions are stylistic nuances in their games (LeBron's primary attacking attribute is brute force; Wade's is change of direction). In terms of function, they're the same. They are both scorers first, but can also easily dominate as floor generals. When Wade was in his prime, it was reasonable to think of him as a 6'4" LeBron. And even after injuries diminished him, he still played the same way as LeBron, albeit a broken-down version.

And when he stepped aside, he continued to play the exact same style, only in a reduced capacity due to reduced touches. He could have adopted Kyrie's mindset and probably still averaged 23 ppg during their last three years together. But, that's not how he plays.
Kyrie is a borderline elite jumpshooter. When the Cavs were on that 12-game winning streak, he was shooting close to 60-percent on catch-and-shoot threes. I really don't think Wade could just arbitrarily decide to become that kind of shooter. That was always the weak spot in his offensive game. And, that is the kind of player that can thrive alongside James. It just so happens that Kyrie can also do a lot of other things with the basketball.

I agree with the rest of your post. You basically more succinctly summed up what I'd been saying in my previous posts.

[Eric Cartman]

He already took a backseat.

Kyrie = Batman
Lebron = Robin

Next year I expect Lebron to fall out of the top 10 players in the league atm. Such a fast decline it's hilarious.

[J Shuttlesworth]

He already took a backseat.

Kyrie = Batman
Lebron = Robin

Next year I expect Lebron to fall out of the top 10 players in the league atm. Such a fast decline it's hilarious.
This isn't Westbrook/Durant. LeBron is clearly the leader and that doesn't take anything away from Kyrie's game

[Eric Cartman]

This isn't Westbrook/Durant. LeBron is clearly the leader and that doesn't take anything away from Kyrie's game

It will be evident when Kyrie comes up big in the postseason who the true leader of the team is.

Not a knock on Lebron, but his time has passed.

[J Shuttlesworth]

It will be evident when Kyrie comes up big in the postseason who the true leader of the team is.

Not a knock on Lebron, but his time has passed.
Bookmarked.

[NumberSix]

Can't really judge Kyrie until I see him play in the postseason.

[JerrySeinfeld]

:pimp:

[Eric Cartman]

He already took a backseat.

Kyrie = Batman
Lebron = Robin

Next year I expect Lebron to fall out of the top 10 players in the league atm. Such a fast decline it's hilarious.


This isn't Westbrook/Durant. LeBron is clearly the leader and that doesn't take anything away from Kyrie's game


It will be evident when Kyrie comes up big in the postseason who the true leader of the team is.

Not a knock on Lebron, but his time has passed.

:biggums:

[Simple Jack]

:biggums:

You truly believe (all trolling aside), that because Kyrie had a better game than LeBron tonight and led the Cavaliers to a win, he's surpassed LeBron? Really?

[warriorfan]

Bookmarked.


:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Eric Cartman]

You truly believe (all trolling aside), that because Kyrie had a better game than LeBron tonight and led the Cavaliers to a win, he's surpassed LeBron? Really?

If you look at the date of my posts, clearly I believed it before.

[Simple Jack]

If you look at the date of my posts, clearly I believed it before.

I'm asking if you truly believe Kyrie is better than LeBron and more valuable to this Cavalier team...do you?

Can you, without trolling, really put this much emphasis on 1 or 2 games of the season and ignore the overwhelming evidence suggesting LeBron is clearly better and more valuable than Kyrie?

I'm not sure you can...

[Lebron23]

Yes. He's the ultimate Team Player.

[dannywpt]

It comes more natural to LeBron to be a 1b option it seems

[riseagainst]

the question is, if the Cavs reach the finals, and Kyrie goes off in the finals, will Lebron pull another 2011 and sabotage the finals so Kyrie won't get the FMVP?

[Eric Cartman]

the question is, if the Cavs reach the finals, and Kyrie goes off in the finals, will Lebron pull another 2011 and sabotage the finals so Kyrie won't get the FMVP?

Does a bear crap in the woods?

[Eric Cartman]

Kyrie's first playoff game and Lebron is comfortably chilling in the backseat :applause:

[WallIn]

He will have to whether he likes it or not. Something called 'decline' exists you know.

[ABfor3]

Hes gonna pull a Kobe and MJ and think hes still a franchise player in his late thirties

[Eric Cartman]

Hes gonna pull a Kobe and MJ and think hes still a franchise player in his early forties

Fixed.

[ImKobe]

He's a season or two away from becoming a 1b player..

Kyrie's only going to get better and he'll learn all the tricks from James while Lebron's athleticism declines, Kyrie could already be the best player for a Playoff series or two this year, and I think we'll see that against Boston.

[TheMarkMadsen]

looks like he already has

[Kingwillball]

He's a season or two away from becoming a 1b player..

Kyrie's only going to get better and he'll learn all the tricks from James while Lebron's athleticism declines, Kyrie could already be the best player for a Playoff series or two this year, and I think we'll see that against Boston.


If He has another Championship or two by that time I think he would be fine in that Role as he is into his 30's.. Still would be a lock as a top 3 player of all time.

[LA_Showtime]

The fact we even have a thread like this (1) makes me feel old as **** and (2) guys we gotta really appreciate this guy's latter career cause we're looking at a top five player all time

[ImKobe]

If He has another Championship or two by that time I think he would be fine in that Role as he is into his 30's.. Still would be a lock as a top 3 player of all time.

arguable? sure

lock? no way

and that's IF he doesn't lose/choke again.

[RepMe]

It has begun.