MVP slipping away from Harden.

[Connor B]

Tonight's loss on National Television hurt him on top of the fact that he didn't play very well, and while Curry didn't play well in his own game, the Warriors won and improve to 51 as the best team in the league. I really think Curry deserves it more, he shouldn't be punished for having better teammates, he should be rewarded for elevating a good roster to a possible all-time-great-team status.

[ButterFace]

Curry has been pulling away most of the season. Harden made a little run, but has slipped.

[UK2K]

Harden's wearing down.

His back must be killing him. Guess he's human after all.

[oarabbus]

Harden's wearing down.

His back must be killing him. Guess he's human after all.


You guys might wanna rest him up for playoffs. Yeah you might slip to 6th or 7th worst case scenario but it's better than beard having a strained back against the Clippers as it is now.

[RoseCity07]

Seeing Curry have these bad games and Golden State still wins I'm not so sure. I think Lebron is the one guy that really deserves it. All these other teams want it just so they can gloat with no care that the award went to the wrong guy.

Lebron is more valuable to Cleveland than any one player is to their team. Cleveland went from the lottery to a Finals contender by adding Lebron. Warriors would still be a playoff team without Curry.

[navy]

Curry has the narrative set. The new pretty face of the nba.

Would take a monster performance from Harden to take MVP away from him.

[yobore]

Tonight was really bad for Westbrook and Curry too so he didn't really lose ground on anyone but Lebron

[J Shuttlesworth]

Seeing Curry have these bad games and Golden State still wins I'm not so sure. I think Lebron is the one guy that really deserves it. All these other teams want it just so they can gloat with no care that the award went to the wrong guy.

Lebron is more valuable to Cleveland than any one player is to their team. Cleveland went from the lottery to a Finals contender by adding Lebron. Warriors would still be a playoff team without Curry.
I do agree with this but I'd have Harden as the MVP. LBJ is the best player in the league, but Harden is the season MVP in my book. LeBron would be the leader in MVP if he was healthy all season and didn't have to miss that two week stretch

This game "being on national TV" doesn't change anything. A game is a game. Swap Harden with Curry and I think the Warriors have about the same record, but the Rockets get worse. Harden would also probably have 8+ assists per game if he was playing with the Warriors lineup.

I'm sorry but I just don't see Curry on the Rockets leading them to a 3rd/4th seed.

[JerrySeinfeld]

I do agree with this but I'd have Harden as the MVP. LBJ is the best player in the league, but Harden is the season MVP in my book. LeBron would be the leader in MVP if he was healthy all season and didn't have to miss that two week stretch

This game "being on national TV" doesn't change anything. A game is a game. Swap Harden with Curry and I think the Warriors have about the same record, but the Rockets get worse. Harden would also probably have 8+ assists per game if he was playing with the Warriors lineup.

I'm sorry but I just don't see Curry on the Rockets leading them to a 3rd/4th seed.

don't see how anyone in the east could win the mvp, and that includes lebron.

[J Shuttlesworth]

don't see how anyone in the east could win the mvp, and that includes lebron.
well 6 out of the last 7 MVPs have been players in the East, and rightfully so. Christ, you're off the rocker with the East/West thing.

Although it's quite irrelevant since I picked Harden as the MVP. Not sure what you're trying to get at

[Milbuck]

I do agree with this but I'd have Harden as the MVP. LBJ is the best player in the league, but Harden is the season MVP in my book. LeBron would be the leader in MVP if he was healthy all season and didn't have to miss that two week stretch

This game "being on national TV" doesn't change anything. A game is a game. Swap Harden with Curry and I think the Warriors have about the same record, but the Rockets get worse. Harden would also probably have 8+ assists per game if he was playing with the Warriors lineup.

I'm sorry but I just don't see Curry on the Rockets leading them to a 3rd/4th seed.What possible reasoning do you have for this? Curry is a better shooter on a team that rains 3s. Curry is a better passer on a team that relies on its first option setting people up. Curry is a better defender on a team that plays great team defense..not that either of them are really difference makers there. Curry is basically a more skilled, PG version of Harden minus the bullshit foul-relying tactics.

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Curry couldn't replicate what Harden is doing. And there's nothing to suggest that ball-dominant Harden could fit in with GS's offense. Curry is so valuable because he can dominate a game with the ball or without it. Curry could easily put up ridiculous numbers like Harden, he doesn't because he has that Dirk effect about him that just cannot be quantified. Warriors would be even better if Curry just said '**** it', went out and played 38-40 mpg of intense basketball all the time. He doesn't do it because he takes his team to another level in the minutes when he's playing, and isn't required to play balls to the ball all the time.

[bdreason]

If Rockets can hold a top 4 seed out West, Harden deserves the MVP.

[J Shuttlesworth]

What possible reasoning do you have for this? Curry is a better shooter on a team that rains 3s. Curry is a better passer on a team that relies on its first option setting people up. Curry is a better defender on a team that plays great team defense..not that either of them are really difference makers there. Curry is basically a more skilled, PG version of Harden minus the bullshit foul-relying tactics.
Yeah I'm not counting getting to the foul line against Harden as if it's a negative. We're talking about 27/6/7 vs. 24/4/8. Harden has statistical advantage outside of efficiency and even there, it's close. Harden draws as much attention on defense as Steph does, if not more. He's also been a solid play maker. He doesn't have somebody as good as Klay Thompson to set up, or create their own shots. His APG would be higher when he can set up Klay/Bogut/Lee/etc. I can't see how Harden would prevent the Rockets from being the #1 offense in the league.


There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Curry couldn't replicate what Harden is doing. And there's nothing to suggest that ball-dominant Harden could fit in with GS's offense. Curry is so valuable because he can dominate a game with the ball or without it. Curry could easily put up ridiculous numbers like Harden, he doesn't because he has that Dirk effect about him that just cannot be quantified. Warriors would be even better if Curry just said '**** it', went out and played 38-40 mpg of intense basketball all the time. He doesn't do it because he takes his team to another level in the minutes when he's playing, and isn't required to play balls to the ball all the time.
Harden is only a 2% higher usage rate than Curry, and it would obviously be lower playing with more offensive options. We always prop up Harden's cast for playing a great defense, but their defense isn't as good as Golden State.

oh and btw, Harden has had some great games where he didn't shoot a ton. He's had many low scoring games where he dominated with his playmaking. He has a ton of double digit assist games this year and don't act like that wouldn't be magnified with a squad that is better offensively and defensively like the Warriors.

[Milbuck]

Yeah I'm not counting getting to the foul line against Harden as if it's a negative. We're talking about 27/6/7 vs. 24/4/8. Harden has statistical advantage outside of efficiency and even there, it's close. Harden draws as much attention on defense as Steph does, if not more. He's also been a solid play maker. He doesn't have somebody as good as Klay Thompson to set up, or create their own shots. His APG would be higher when he can set up Klay/Bogut/Lee/etc. I can't see how Harden would prevent the Rockets from being the #1 offense in the league. Again you're using raw stats to downplay Steph..but raw stats do not do Steph justice. He doesn't play as many minutes because he doesn't have to...his impact puts his team so far above the opposing team most of the time he ends up not having to play huge minutes. People have warped this into the notion that he's just another piece on a historically stacked team...when in reality he's the force driving that team. There's no denying the Warriors are talented as hell but Steph's impact is HUGE.

Per 36 Curry is at 26/5/8 on 63% TS vs Harden's 27/6/7 on 61% TS on ~36 mpg. The difference in production is pretty much negligible.

And I totally disagree with Harden drawing more attention than Steph. Harden is a great shooter...Curry is the best shooter of all time. Defenses are distorted way more with Curry wreaking havoc from the perimeter than Harden. Harden's got the ability to collapse defenses by driving but Curry has the advantage of being a ridiculous off-ball player as well, which maximizes his team in a different and better way.

Harden is only a 2% higher usage rate than Curry, and it would obviously be lower playing with more offensive options. We always prop up Harden's cast for playing a great defense, but their defense isn't as good as Golden State.

oh and btw, Harden has had some great games where he didn't shoot a ton. He's had many low scoring games where he dominated with his playmaking. He has a ton of double digit assist games this year and don't act like that wouldn't be magnified with a squad that is better offensively and defensively like the Warriors.No one is saying Harden isn't a great player. I'm saying Curry is just better at it.

And the point about the supporting casts is that all it does is speak to the level of help they have, not their actual performance itself. Curry having a more talented team doesn't somehow make him a worse player than Harden. If they were winning at the same level, then it matters. But Harden's team is widely accepted as a middle-tier playoff team in the West, while GS is widely accepted as a top 2 team and probably the favorites to win it all, dominating team category after team category in team stats. The difference in supporting talent is matched by the difference in results. It's not like Harden is carryon the Rockets to the same record, the same statistical team dominance, etc.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

LeBron is #1 right now. Or close to it.

[Heavincent]

lol at Lebron winning MVP over Curry with like 10 less wins in a shit conference. Utterly ridiculous.

[game3524]

lol at Lebron winning MVP over Curry with like 10 less wins in a shit conference. Utterly ridiculous.

Yeah, Lebron winning over Curry would be far worst then Nash winning in 2006. Curry's numbers are better and his team will have the best record.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Again you're using raw stats to downplay Steph..but raw stats do not do Steph justice. He doesn't play as many minutes because he doesn't have to...his impact puts his team so far above the opposing team most of the time he ends up not having to play huge minutes. People have warped this into the notion that he's just another piece on a historically stacked team...when in reality he's the force driving that team. There's no denying the Warriors are talented as hell but Steph's impact is HUGE.

Per 36 Curry is at 26/5/8 on 63% TS vs Harden's 27/6/7 on 61% TS on ~36 mpg. The difference in production is pretty much negligible.
Sure the stats are close but I think Harden's stats would be better with a better offensive supporting cast like the Warriors. Also, the warriors slightly superior defense would cause more fast break opportunities leading to more spot up 3's, layups, and more free throws. The difference probably isn't huge since the Rockets defense is good, but his stats would be slightly inflated by Dubs D. They'd be more inflated by the Warriors offense though. There's no denying that his assists would be higher, but he'd probably have the same PPG. I'd give him 1 assist or 2 more per game with the Dubs offense.


And I totally disagree with Harden drawing more attention than Steph. Harden is a great shooter...Curry is the best shooter of all time. Defenses are distorted way more with Curry wreaking havoc from the perimeter than Harden. Harden's got the ability to collapse defenses by driving but Curry has the advantage of being a ridiculous off-ball player as well, which maximizes his team in a different and better way.
No one is saying Harden isn't a great player. I'm saying Curry is just better at it.
Disagreed. Sure you you have to chase around Steph on defense to prevent jumpers, but Harden requires a different type of defensive attention. He's the guy you don't want to get in the lane, and when he does, he will draw the defense towards him to create open perimeter shots. Very similar to LeBron James in this sense. He's one of the main reasons the Rockets shoot so many 3's a game, and a lot of them are open.


And the point about the supporting casts is that all it does is speak to the level of help they have, not their actual performance itself. Curry having a more talented team doesn't somehow make him a worse player than Harden. If they were winning at the same level, then it matters. But Harden's team is widely accepted as a middle-tier playoff team in the West, while GS is widely accepted as a top 2 team and probably the favorites to win it all, dominating team category after team category in team stats. The difference in supporting talent is matched by the difference in results. It's not like Harden is carryon the Rockets to the same record, the same statistical team dominance, etc.No, Curry having a better team isn't what makes him worse than Harden. It's switching them around that makes me believe that Harden is a more valuable player. I think the Rockets would have less success with Curry, and I think the Warriors would have equal sucess with Harden. Even if the Dubs got slightly worse with Harden, I think the Warriors would be significantly worse than Harden.

Honestly though, I can't really get into it too much more because I need to go to sleep. And to be honest, I'd rather discuss it with someone who doesn't hate Harden. I always play devils' advocate with you since I like Harden, but ever since Curry dropped 54 at MSG a couple years ago, he's been my 2nd fav player in the league behind LeBron, believe it or not. Obviously me being a ray fan, I love pure shooters. Stojakovic was one of my favorites back in the day too. But I do believe Harden is more deserving of MVP, even though I do like Curry more. I do think it is very close, and it's not 100% conclusive one way or another. I get the arguments on both sides, and I see your points, but I just believe Harden on the Warriors wouldn't make them lose more games than Curry would make the rockets lose (if that makes sense). Obviously it's a subjective/theoretical opinion.

edit: Also, one thing that I feel gets overlooked is the fact that Howard has been injured, and the Rockets have had a ton of injuries throughout the year and Harden has beasted through all those stretches. Your opinion is that the Rockets with a healthy howard are as much of a contender as anyone, so I don't see how he's not at least tied with Curry for MVP (I have him ahead, obviously)

[poido123]

Sure the stats are close but I think Harden's stats would be better with a better offensive supporting cast like the Warriors. Also, the warriors slightly superior defense would cause more fast break opportunities leading to more spot up 3's, layups, and more free throws. The difference probably isn't huge since the Rockets defense is good, but his stats would be slightly inflated by Dubs D. They'd be more inflated by the Warriors offense though. There's no denying that his assists would be higher, but he'd probably have the same PPG. I'd give him 1 assist or 2 more per game with the Dubs offense.


Disagreed. Sure you you have to chase around Steph on defense to prevent jumpers, but Harden requires a different type of defensive attention. He's the guy you don't want to get in the lane, and when he does, he will draw the defense towards him to create open perimeter shots. Very similar to LeBron James in this sense. He's one of the main reasons the Rockets shoot so many 3's a game, and a lot of them are open.

No, Curry having a better team isn't what makes him worse than Harden. It's switching them around that makes me believe that Harden is a more valuable player. I think the Rockets would have less success with Curry, and I think the Warriors would have equal sucess with Harden. Even if the Dubs got slightly worse with Harden, I think the Warriors would be significantly worse than Harden.

Honestly though, I can't really get into it too much more because I need to go to sleep. And to be honest, I'd rather discuss it with someone who doesn't hate Harden. I always play devils' advocate with you since I like Harden, but ever since Curry dropped 54 at MSG a couple years ago, he's been my 2nd fav player in the league behind LeBron, believe it or not. Obviously me being a ray fan, I love pure shooters. Stojakovic was one of my favorites back in the day too. But I do believe Harden is more deserving of MVP, even though I do like Curry more. I do think it is very close, and it's not 100% conclusive one way or another. I get the arguments on both sides, and I see your points, but I just believe Harden on the Warriors wouldn't make them lose more games than Curry would make the rockets lose (if that makes sense). Obviously it's a subjective/theoretical opinion.



Why does it concern you so much whether Curry or Harden wins the award?


You have just finished writing up a book tryin to rep Harden for MVP. Please explain...

[J Shuttlesworth]

Why does it concern you so much whether Curry or Harden wins the award?


You have just finished writing up a book tryin to rep Harden for MVP. Please explain...
It's an interesting MVP race, and I like both players. They both have a case, I presented my opinion.

And a few paragraphs isn't a book. How simple minded are you. And why do you care?

[poido123]

It's an interesting MVP race, and I like both players. They both have a case, I presented my opinion.

And a few paragraphs isn't a book. How simple minded are you. And why do you care?



If you like both players as you say, then why did you spend so much time invested in proving one is better than the other?


Harden is still comfortably behind Curry. Team record don't lie.


Curry should never be penalised for having a strong team, just like Lebron never has.

[Magic731]

If you like both players as you say, then why did you spend so much time invested in proving one is better than the other?


Harden is still comfortably behind Curry. Team record don't lie.


Curry should never be penalised for having a strong team, just like Lebron never has.
Wait, in a thread discussing the MVP you're having a go at a guy who is presenting his opinion on who should win the award?

Harden is not 'comfortably' behind Curry. It is a very, very close race. Anyone who can't admit that shouldn't be taken seriously as far as I'm concerned.

[poido123]

Wait, in a thread discussing the MVP you're having a go at a guy who is presenting his opinion on who should win the award?

Harden is not 'comfortably' behind Curry. It is a very, very close race. Anyone who can't admit that shouldn't be taken seriously as far as I'm concerned.



Close? Harden has the same, if not inferior stats to Curry, while having a 4th seed compared to the best record in the NBA.


Comfortably in front, I mean comfortably in front.

[Magic731]

Close? Harden has the same, if not inferior stats to Curry, while having a 4th seed compared to the best record in the NBA.


Comfortably in front, I mean comfortably in front.
I counter that by saying that Curry has a significantly better supporting cast. Is it fair to use that against Harden when it's out of his control? I could also say that Curry has inferior stats to Harden. Harden scores more and rebounds more. He has more of the offensive load put on him. He has to show up night in and night out. Like I said, a very close race.

[poido123]

I counter that by saying that Curry has a significantly better supporting cast. Is it fair to use that against Harden when it's out of his control? I could also say that Curry has inferior stats to Harden. Harden scores more and rebounds more. He has more of the offensive load put on him. He has to show up night in and night out. Like I said, a very close race.



No player should ever be penalised by the team they play on and that is evident with past MVP winners.


Lebron is a good example. MVP criteria shows that winners have great team records which coincides with more talented teams.


Harden scores more? No. Per 36 shows that they are even, and that is with curry surrounded by offensive talent and shooting 49%(less load) while Harden gets to jack up shots(no Howard) on an average 44%.


Going by that, Curry can score more on a Harden like team.




Your case is in shreds. :pimp:

[Magic731]

No player should ever be penalised by the team they play on and that is evident with past MVP winners.


Lebron is a good example. MVP criteria shows that winners have great team records which coincides with more talented teams.


Harden scores more? No. Per 36 shows that they are even, and that is with curry surrounded by offensive talent and shooting 49%(less load) while Harden gets to jack up shots(no Howard) on an average 44%.


Going by that, Curry can score more on a Harden like team.




Your case is in shreds. :pimp:
Curry being surrounded by offensive talent helps him get such good looks. Imagine if Harden had someone as good as Klay Thompson next to him. Not only would his team have won a lot more games, but he probably gets better looks at the hoop as well.

[Smook A.]

Harden is still comfortably behind Curry. Team record don't lie.
Comfortably behind? It's super close, imo. Yeah, I know Curry's has the second best record in the NBA, and Harden's team is the 4th seed in the West, but that doesn't mean that Curry has that nice, comfortable lead. What Harden has done without Dwight, our 2nd best player, is pretty remarkable. He has the Rockets in a position where nobody would have ever guessed. I remember after Dwight got injured, people were saying that we would slip to the 7th or 8th seed. They were wrong. Harden is doing a fantastic job of leading this team. He also has a nice supporting cast around him. Guys like Brewer, Smith, Terry, and Jones really come off the bench and produce.

Curry gets the benefit of having a better cast. Not saying that's gonna hurt his MVP case -- because it's totally won't -- I'm just saying the Warriors are this good because of him AND the talent around him. Warriors' cast is easily better than the Rockets'.


Close? Harden has the same, if not inferior stats to Curry, while having a 4th seed compared to the best record in the NBA.
Have a look at their per 36:

Stephen Curry - 25.6 ppg/8.4 apg/4.8 rpg/2.3 spg/0.3 bpg on 48/42/90
Advanced Stats - PER: 27.5/TS%: 62.7/WS: 12.2/VORP: 6

James Harden - 26.4 ppg/6.9 apg/5.7 rpg/1.9 spg/0.8 bpg on 45/38/87
Advanced Stats - PER: 26.7/TS%: 60.6/WS: 12.9/VORP: 6.2

Both guys have edges on certain categories.


Harden scores more? No. Per 36 shows that they are even, and that is with curry surrounded by offensive talent and shooting 49%(less load) while Harden gets to jack up shots(no Howard) on an average 44%.
Since when is averaging 26.4 ppg and 25.6 pgg considered even? Those are the per 36 averages of Harden and Curry. You don't have to guess which one is which. Yeah the numbers are close, but it's not even by any means. Also, nice job of changing the FG percentages. Curry's per 36 FG% is 48, while Harden's is extremely close to 45. Next time you try to argue something, make sure the stats you put out aren't wrong.

[funnystuff]

don't see how anyone in the east could win the mvp, and that includes lebron.
Hahahahahaha, obviously just started watching the nba

[poido123]

Curry being surrounded by offensive talent helps him get such good looks. Imagine if Harden had someone as good as Klay Thompson next to him. Not only would his team have won a lot more games, but he probably gets better looks at the hoop as well.


If curry is dependant on good looks, then you could expect a 2-3% drop off in FG%? Which is still higher than Harden.


It comes down to volume of shots. Curry with Harden volume is a better scorer.

I don't think you can argue that.

[poido123]

Comfortably behind? It's super close, imo. Yeah, I know Curry's has the second best record in the NBA, and Harden's team is the 4th seed in the West, but that doesn't mean that Curry has that nice, comfortable lead. What Harden has done without Dwight, our 2nd best player, is pretty remarkable. He has the Rockets in a position where nobody would have ever guessed. I remember after Dwight got injured, people were saying that we would slip to the 7th or 8th seed. They were wrong. Harden is doing a fantastic job of leading this team. He also has a nice supporting cast around him. Guys like Brewer, Smith, Terry, and Jones really come off the bench and produce.

Curry gets the benefit of having a better cast. Not saying that's gonna hurt his MVP case -- because it's totally won't -- I'm just saying the Warriors are this good because of him AND the talent around him. Warriors' cast is easily better than the Rockets'.


Have a look at their per 36:

Stephen Curry - 25.6 ppg/8.4 apg/4.8 rpg/2.3 spg/0.3 bpg on 48/42/90
Advanced Stats - PER: 27.5/TS%: 62.7/WS: 12.2/VORP: 6

James Harden - 26.4 ppg/6.9 apg/5.7 rpg/1.9 spg/0.8 bpg on 45/38/87
Advanced Stats - PER: 26.7/TS%: 60.6/WS: 12.9/VORP: 6.2

Both guys have edges on certain categories.


Since when is averaging 26.4 ppg and 25.6 pgg considered even? Those are the per 36 averages of Harden and Curry. You don't have to guess which one is which. Yeah the numbers are close, but it's not even by any means. Also, nice job of changing the FG percentages. Curry's per 36 FG% is 48, while Harden's is extremely close to 45. Next time you try to argue something, make sure the stats you put out aren't wrong.



Let's keep this very simple.


Less than a 1 point difference in scoring over 36 minutes is not worth mentioning. If you want to be ****, I could argue that Harden has the benefit of volume of shots to score. Which is why he is scoring more.


Let's keep situational play out of the discussion. Team record is one of the criteria of MVP's. It is not used against them, you can talk all you want about it but it serves nothing to meeting criteria.

LOL at you for suggesting that there isn't much of a difference between 48 and 45% FG percentage :oldlol:

Nice stretch from .446% fg % to 45% and curry down from .482% to 48.

Makes your argument seem more credible, but still rubbish :oldlol:


In all of your post, it just seems like a bunch of situational excuse making. Stick with the facts, not what YOU THINK should happen or what YOU THINK an MVP is.

[dunksby]

Comfortably behind? It's super close, imo. Yeah, I know Curry's has the second best record in the NBA, and Harden's team is the 4th seed in the West, but that doesn't mean that Curry has that nice, comfortable lead. What Harden has done without Dwight, our 2nd best player, is pretty remarkable. He has the Rockets in a position where nobody would have ever guessed. I remember after Dwight got injured, people were saying that we would slip to the 7th or 8th seed. They were wrong. Harden is doing a fantastic job of leading this team. He also has a nice supporting cast around him. Guys like Brewer, Smith, Terry, and Jones really come off the bench and produce.

Curry gets the benefit of having a better cast. Not saying that's gonna hurt his MVP case -- because it's totally won't -- I'm just saying the Warriors are this good because of him AND the talent around him. Warriors' cast is easily better than the Rockets'.


Have a look at their per 36:

Stephen Curry - 25.6 ppg/8.4 apg/4.8 rpg/2.3 spg/0.3 bpg on 48/42/90
Advanced Stats - PER: 27.5/TS%: 62.7/WS: 12.2/VORP: 6

James Harden - 26.4 ppg/6.9 apg/5.7 rpg/1.9 spg/0.8 bpg on 45/38/87
Advanced Stats - PER: 26.7/TS%: 60.6/WS: 12.9/VORP: 6.2

Both guys have edges on certain categories.


Since when is averaging 26.4 ppg and 25.6 pgg considered even? Those are the per 36 averages of Harden and Curry. You don't have to guess which one is which. Yeah the numbers are close, but it's not even by any means. Also, nice job of changing the FG percentages. Curry's per 36 FG% is 48, while Harden's is extremely close to 45. Next time you try to argue something, make sure the stats you put out aren't wrong.
Percentages remain the same :oldlol: anyway let's adjust for different paces teams play and check out Per 100 Poss stats for Harden, Curry and Westbrook:

Curry: 34.6 PTS 6.5 TRB 11.4 Ast 3.2 STL 0.4 Blk 4.6 TO 48%/42% 121/100
Harden: 36.5 PTS 7.8 TRB 9.6 Ast 2.6 STL 1.1 Blk 5.5 TO 44%/37% 118/102
Westbrook: 41.2 PTS 10.7 TRB 12.5 Ast 3.2 STL 0.2 Blk 6.2 TO 43%/29% 111/101

[SexSymbol]

Seeing Curry have these bad games and Golden State still wins I'm not so sure. I think Lebron is the one guy that really deserves it. All these other teams want it just so they can gloat with no care that the award went to the wrong guy.

Lebron is more valuable to Cleveland than any one player is to their team. Cleveland went from the lottery to a Finals contender by adding Lebron. Warriors would still be a playoff team without Curry.
And Love. And Marion. And Mozgov. And Smith. And Shumpert. And Miller. And Jones. You do realize that here's like 4 guys left from last year's team?
LeBron had countless 6-16 18 pts 8-10TOs games this year, he's far from MVP.

The most deserving is Harden, the best is Westbrook, but the one who's probably a lock now is Curry

[Pushxx]

Curry has the narrative set. The new pretty face of the nba.

Would take a monster performance from Harden to take MVP away from him.

This is the reality. It's going to Curry short of something major changing.

Guy should win it, anyway.

[Alamо]

Kawhi Leonard running away with the MVP

[sd3035]

Seeing Curry have these bad games and Golden State still wins I'm not so sure. I think Lebron is the one guy that really deserves it. All these other teams want it just so they can gloat with no care that the award went to the wrong guy.

Lebron is more valuable to Cleveland than any one player is to their team. Cleveland went from the lottery to a Finals contender by adding Lebron. Warriors would still be a playoff team without Curry.

Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love are better than anyone on the Warriors except for Curry


Curry >>>>>>>>>> LeBald

[Chadwin]

When you compare them you have to remember that Curry has two elite (42%+) three point shooters out there with him usually.

[DMAVS41]

Again you're using raw stats to downplay Steph..but raw stats do not do Steph justice. He doesn't play as many minutes because he doesn't have to...his impact puts his team so far above the opposing team most of the time he ends up not having to play huge minutes. People have warped this into the notion that he's just another piece on a historically stacked team...when in reality he's the force driving that team. There's no denying the Warriors are talented as hell but Steph's impact is HUGE.

Per 36 Curry is at 26/5/8 on 63% TS vs Harden's 27/6/7 on 61% TS on ~36 mpg. The difference in production is pretty much negligible.

And I totally disagree with Harden drawing more attention than Steph. Harden is a great shooter...Curry is the best shooter of all time. Defenses are distorted way more with Curry wreaking havoc from the perimeter than Harden. Harden's got the ability to collapse defenses by driving but Curry has the advantage of being a ridiculous off-ball player as well, which maximizes his team in a different and better way.
No one is saying Harden isn't a great player. I'm saying Curry is just better at it.

And the point about the supporting casts is that all it does is speak to the level of help they have, not their actual performance itself. Curry having a more talented team doesn't somehow make him a worse player than Harden. If they were winning at the same level, then it matters. But Harden's team is widely accepted as a middle-tier playoff team in the West, while GS is widely accepted as a top 2 team and probably the favorites to win it all, dominating team category after team category in team stats. The difference in supporting talent is matched by the difference in results. It's not like Harden is carryon the Rockets to the same record, the same statistical team dominance, etc.


Spot on with everything.

People are ignoring the amazing off ball impact Curry has. Love the Dirk comparison...there is so much hidden value there with Dirk...and Curry has a lot of that as well. When they run Curry off screens...the entire defense has to shift over because, like you said, he might be the best shooter ever.

He's an insanely good passer and he is definitely playing above average to good defense this year. Or, to put it simply, the Warriors defense (top in the league) is better with Curry than without him.

That is huge actually. Rose in 11...the Bulls defense got much better with him off the court than on. We can't ignore the strides Curry has made on that end of the floor.

Also, Curry is not dependent on a stacked or great team for his production.

The 2 years prior to this year Curry averaged 24/4/8 on 60% TS. This is who he is. An insanely efficient scoring guard that can give you around 25 points per game in any situation.

He might not be the best player in the game, but he has strong arguments for it...and he's definitely MVP right now.

[Cold soul]

Curry will win MVP.

[ButterFace]

Tonight was really bad for Westbrook and Curry too so he didn't really lose ground on anyone but Lebron

Westbrook ain't winning anyway. He is in the Anthony Davis category of killing by himself, but not winning, so no MVP.

[Fudge]

Curry wrapped it up like a month ago. Ain't nuffin changed.

[StephHamann]

Another stellar performance by Harden.

Give the MVP to him already.

[sportjames23]

And Love. And Marion. And Mozgov. And Smith. And Shumpert. And Miller. And Jones. You do realize that here's like 4 guys left from last year's team?
LeBron had countless 6-16 18 pts 8-10TOs games this year, he's far from MVP.

The most deserving is Harden, the best is Westbrook, but the one who's probably a lock now is Curry


This.

I can't believe anyone thinks Lebron is deserving of the MVP this year.