Can we once and for all decide if Lebron is on a "stacked" team or not...

[Dragic4Life]

Today he's on "teh most stacked team of all time!!>!".

Tomorrow he's not even beating the Hawks in a series or not making the finals or getting murked by GSW.

Jfc the indecisions these fools produce.:facepalm

[VIntageNOvel]

http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/didnt-read-lol-gif-4.gif

[Dr Hawk]

Lebron makes his teams stacked

[Dragic4Life]

Lebron makes his teams contenders
Fixed.

[AnaheimLakers24]

Stacked but he will lose cause hes a choker.

super stacked. No excuses

[Eric Cartman]

Cavs are stacked, but the Warriors and Spurs are more stacked.

Cavs will get demolished in the finals, probably a sweep.

[Dragic4Life]

Cavs are stacked, but the Warriors and Spurs are more stacked.

Cavs will get demolished in the finals, probably a sweep.
you're a piece of shit who hates on Lebron even in a goddamn GAMETHREAD.

go die in a fire bitch.

[Prime_Shaq]

Cavs are stacked, but the scary thing is they can get better.

[ISHGoat]

Lebron makes his teams stacked

It's true, when you are a top10 and arguably top5 goat when it's all said and done, any team you are on will automatically be considered stacked because of the overwhelming talent of said goat alone.

A lineup of

Avg pg
Above avg sg
Avg sf
Avg pf
Shaq

Is stacked as ****. Just like lebron and 4 random teammates is equally stacked as shit

[The_Pharcyde]

Yes his teams are stacked. They have been since 2010-present... No doubt about it
Before that they were the complete opposite of stacked

[keep-itreal]

no excuses.

[beastee]

Mods...can we once and for all decide to permaban Dragic4life? The same threads everyday with nothing new to say. :facepalm

[imnew09]

SuperStar Uncle clutch Drew PG
Star Love
Lebron
mozgod



Da fu else you want. Super stacked

[3peated]

theyre about even with chicago and okc, but more stacked than everyone else. with golden state being the top and most stacked.

[Dragic4Life]

These are far worse stacked teams.

https://reelsportsnotes.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/t1_jordan_pippen_rodman_display_image_display_imag e.jpg

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/675815/image.php_medium.jpg

http://alamocitytimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/LA-Lakers-2012-2013-Roster.jpg

http://nerdnumbers.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/153310897_opt.jpg

[nba_55]

you're a piece of shit who hates on Lebron even in a goddamn GAMETHREAD.

go die in a fire bitch.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Prime_Shaq]

These are far worse stacked teams.

https://reelsportsnotes.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/t1_jordan_pippen_rodman_display_image_display_imag e.jpg

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/675815/image.php_medium.jpg

http://alamocitytimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/LA-Lakers-2012-2013-Roster.jpg

http://nerdnumbers.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/153310897_opt.jpg
That isn't what you asked though

[Dragic4Life]

Can we cut Lebron some slack?

He has never played with a top 5 player in the league he's in.

[Prime_Shaq]

Can we cut Lebron some slack?

He has never played with a top 5 player in the league he's in.
2011 and 2012.

[SouBeachTalents]

Can we cut Lebron some slack?

He has never played with a top 5 player in the league he's in.

:roll:

http://www.soraspy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/koc-3-24-2011-31.jpg

[Dragic4Life]

:roll:

http://www.soraspy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/koc-3-24-2011-31.jpg
Nope Wade was NEVER a top 5 player in the league at any point in time after 2009.

[Jailblazers7]

He has a championship caliber team and that's the only label that really matters.

[Prime_Shaq]

Nope Wade was NEVER a top 5 player in the league at any point in time after 2009.
:roll:

[Dragic4Life]

He has a championship caliber team and that's the only label that really matters.
Why is the team championship calibre?

Because of him. No Lebron no contending.

[Prime_Shaq]

Why is the team championship calibre?

Because of him. No Lebron no contending.
So if they fail its on him too. You can't have it both ways.

[Dragic4Life]

:roll:
what's so funny bitch?

[Jailblazers7]

Why is the team championship calibre?

Because of him. No Lebron no contending.

No shit, you build a championship team around your best player. How many championship teams in NBA history would still win without their best player? Probably very close to zero. That statement means nothing.

[Dragic4Life]

No shit, you build a championship team around your best player. How many championship teams in NBA history would still win without their best player? Probably very close to zero. That statement means nothing.
2012 OKC did not need KD to make the finals.

2004 LA did not need Kobe to make the finals.

Heck, take mike away from the Bulls and they are still the top contender. They are THAT stacked.

[riseagainst]

holy moly, dragic is such a dumbass fakkit piece of sh1t retard.

:roll:
:roll:

[Prime_Shaq]

what's so funny bitch?
Don't need to get personal because your opinion is stupid as shit :oldlol: what's funny is you don't think Wade was a top 5 player after 2009

[Dragic4Life]

Don't need to get personal because your opinion is stupid as shit :oldlol: what's funny is you don't think Wade was a top 5 player after 2009
It's not an opinion.

Fact is, Wade dropped to a top 15-calibre player from 2010 onwards. His prime ended ABRUPTLY in 2009.

[Prime_Shaq]

It's not an opinion.

Fact is, Wade dropped to a top 15-calibre player from 2010 onwards. His prime ended ABRUPTLY in 2009.
So you're saying LeBron got outplayed by a top 15 player in the 2011 finals? :oldlol:

[Dragic4Life]

So you're saying LeBron got outplayed by a top 15 player in the 2011 finals? :oldlol:
No. He got sabotaged by a top 15 player who was stubborn and petty and refused to hand over the alpha role to Lebron.

Wade froze Lebron out, resulting in the deceptive statlines you idiots parade around thinking it's relevant to Lebron's legacy.

[riseagainst]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg


bu bu but. Wade's fault doe.

:roll:

[Dragic4Life]

You just made my point shithead.


*idiotic post


Wade froze Lebron out, resulting in the deceptive statlines you idiots parade around thinking it's relevant to Lebron's legacy.

[SouBeachTalents]

It's not an opinion.

Fact is, Wade dropped to a top 15-calibre player from 2010 onwards. His prime ended ABRUPTLY in 2009.

:oldlol: Please name me 10 better players than Wade in 2010 or 2011

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

you're a piece of shit who hates on Lebron even in a goddamn GAMETHREAD.

go die in a fire bitch.

Lol @ a basketball player getting you this riled up.

Go outside a bit, maybe throw the frisbee around, talk to the girl on your block. Leave the basketball discussion to the adults.

I swear, some people with their emotional attachment to people they've never met....

[Prime_Shaq]

No. He got sabotaged by a top 15 player who was stubborn and petty and refused to hand over the alpha role to Lebron.

Wade froze Lebron out, resulting in the deceptive statlines you idiots parade around thinking it's relevant to Lebron's legacy.
Sabotaged :oldlol: your boy failed when it mattered, how hard is it to admit that? He ultimately redeemed himself with back to back titles anyway. Less people would hate on LeBron when you stop posting so many threads about him anyway.

[riseagainst]

right. Wade made lebron go 0/4, 1/4 FGs.

:roll:

[Droid101]

Nope Wade was NEVER a top 5 player in the league at any point in time after 2009.
:facepalm

When the arguable best player in the league teams up with the arguable top 3 player in the league, that's stacking the deck. You are embarrassing.

[Dragic4Life]

:oldlol: Please name me 10 better players than Wade in 2010 or 2011
LeBron James
Derrick Rose
Dwight Howard
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
Kevin Durant
Dirk Nowitzki
Tony Parker
Blake Griffin
Rajon Rondo

[iamgine]

Today he's on "teh most stacked team of all time!!>!".

Tomorrow he's not even beating the Hawks in a series or not making the finals or getting murked by GSW.

Jfc the indecisions these fools produce.:facepalm
It's clearly very stacked because of the talent in it.

Yet it's not as stacked because the talent has overlapped and thus isn't maximized.

It's like if you have a team of Shaq and Moses Malone...team would be uber stacked but both of them would be underutilized.

Kevin Love could give another team so much more than what he's giving the Cavs.

[riseagainst]

OP's lack of knowledge about basketball is cringe worthy.

:lol
:oldlol:

[Prime_Shaq]

LeBron James
Derrick Rose
Dwight Howard
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
Kevin Durant
Dirk Nowitzki
Tony Parker
Blake Griffin
Rajon Rondo
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Dragic4Life]

OP's lack of knowledge about basketball is cringe worthy.

:lol
:oldlol:
I've never seen you post a single basketball related post. All you do is accuse others of "trolling".

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

No. He got sabotaged by a top 15 player who was stubborn and petty and refused to hand over the alpha role to Lebron.

Wade froze Lebron out, resulting in the deceptive statlines you idiots parade around thinking it's relevant to Lebron's legacy.
:biggums:

What about LeBron committing 24 turnovers and shooting 60% from the line? Did Wade mind fvck him into doing that?

What a nefarious character, that Wade


:oldlol:

[Fudge]

http://onlinegrocerybuddy.ca/image/cache/data/products/S/Schneiders%20Lunchmate%20Stackers%20Bologna-500x500.jpg

No excuses.

[Jailblazers7]

2012 OKC did not need KD to make the finals.

2004 LA did not need Kobe to make the finals.

Heck, take mike away from the Bulls and they are still the top contender. They are THAT stacked.

Nice hypotheticals but that is all they are. But you really think OKC wins 4 straight vs the Spurs without KD? Or the Lakers make it to the Finals without Kobe? You realize that Malone was the 3rd leading scorer during that playoff run averaging 11 PPG, right?

[Dragic4Life]

:biggums:

What about LeBron committing 24 turnovers and shooting 60% from the line? Did Wade mind fvck him into doing that?

What a nefarious character, that Wade


:oldlol:
It's all about team chemistry. Wade orchestrated a mutiny against Lebron. He was a stubborn old man unwilling to defer to a superior being. The whole team was affected, inadvertently causing Lebron's number to drop.

[Prime_Shaq]

I've never seen you post a single basketball related post. All you do is accuse others of "trolling".
All YOU do is troll though

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

It's all about team chemistry. Wade orchestrated a mutiny against Lebron. He was a stubborn old man unwilling to defer to a superior being. The whole team was affected, inadvertently causing Lebron's number to drop.

Nvm

Nice leg-pull

[AnaheimLakers24]

Lebron doesnt know how to lead stacked teams. Its kinda sad and definitely hurts his legacy

[Wally450]

It's all about team chemistry. Wade orchestrated a mutiny against Lebron. He was a stubborn old man unwilling to defer to a superior being. The whole team was affected, inadvertently causing Lebron's number to drop.

You honest to god believe that don't you? Just take the L and move along.

[Dragic4Life]

You honest to god believe that don't you? Just take the L and move along.
I do. Go watch the series again and not just look at the surface. Notice Wade's expression and the little actions. He FROZE LEBRON OUT just like Isiah did to Mike.

Worst of all this was in a finals, not an ASG. Cost us the chip.

[20Four]

you're a piece of shit who hates on Lebron even in a goddamn GAMETHREAD.

go die in a fire bitch.

http://i.imgur.com/inDfvTF.jpg

[FLDFSU]

Lebron makes his teams stacked

Basically.

I said it before. If you took the best player off the Knicks, Lakers, or 76ers right now and replaced that player with Lebron....

The same morons talking about how stacked the Cavs or the Heat were, would start talking about how Lebron is playing with a bunch of HOFers.

[HOoopCityJones]

http://i.imgur.com/inDfvTF.jpg

:roll:

[dannysc305]

Stacked AF. Way more stacked than Heatles era. Outside of big 3s, Cavs role players>Heat role players talent wise. Heat role players had that veteran IQ and wisdom that helped them win. As talented as they are, Smith and Shump are dumb as rocks which will ultimately be the downfall of this team.

[nba_55]

Stacked AF. Way more stacked than Heatles era. Outside of big 3s, Cavs role players>Heat role players talent wise. Heat role players had that veteran IQ and wisdom that helped them win. As talented as they are, Smith and Shump are dumb as rocks which will ultimately be the downfall of this team.

I agree, Wade's veteran IQ and wisdom>> Shump and Smith.

[dannysc305]

SuperStar Uncle clutch Drew PG
Star Love
Lebron
mozgod



Da fu else you want. Super stacked

Oh just throw Thompson miller shump and smith in there as well

[20Four]

This is something Gragic4Life would do:

http://zippy.gfycat.com/CrazySmartAlaskankleekai.gif

[nba_55]

This is something Gragic4Life would do:

http://zippy.gfycat.com/CrazySmartAlaskankleekai.gif

Your 15 minutes are done, time for you to flip some burgers little man.

[k0kakw0rld]

2011 and 2012.
lol

[DMAVS41]

The Cavs, post trade, are an absurdly stacked team in terms of talent.

But they lack experience together and just experience in the playoffs overall from the coach down to the bench.

They could easily win it all...and they could easily not make the Finals.

How accountable we hold Lebron should, as always, be based on how he plays first and foremost.

If he plays great and they lose...not a big deal.

If he plays like ass and they lose...yea...big deal...for a guy trying to chase the top 5 players of all time or so.

Lebron had a rough beginning to his career in terms of help, but he's going on 5 straight years now with ultra loaded historic type talented teams. And that is even discounting 09 and 10...which were definitely far above average.

So you are looking at 7 straight years with at least a chance to contend for a title...even if 09 and 10 weren't monster teams or anything.

He's only won twice in those 6 years....and has the worst choke of an all time great player in the finals ever.

Not many more chances left for Lebron to win titles.

[Paul George 24]

what's so funny bitch?

shut up ur mouth,kid

[dubeta]

Your 15 minutes are done, time for you to flip some burgers little man.

:oldlol:

[GrapeApe]

It's not an opinion.

Fact is, Wade dropped to a top 15-calibre player from 2010 onwards. His prime ended ABRUPTLY in 2009.

You are incredibly stupid. In '10 and '11 Wade averaged 26/6/6/2/1 on 49% in the regular season and playoffs. He was a top 5 player through '12 and a top 10 player through the '13 regular season.

[20Four]

Your 15 minutes are done, time for you to flip some burgers little man.
Why you quoting what your boss tells you everyday? :biggums:

[warriorfan]

Why you quoting what your boss tells you everyday? :biggums:



http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/abr.gif

[Fudge]

Why you quoting what your boss tells you everyday? :biggums:
:roll:

[J Shuttlesworth]

I really don't understand the people who say the Cavs are stacked, and then go on to say they wouldn't even be a playoff team or a first round exit in the west

[nba_55]

The Cavs, post trade, are an absurdly stacked team in terms of talent.

But they lack experience together and just experience in the playoffs overall from the coach down to the bench.

They could easily win it all...and they could easily not make the Finals.

How accountable we hold Lebron should, as always, be based on how he plays first and foremost.

If he plays great and they lose...not a big deal.

If he plays like ass and they lose...yea...big deal...for a guy trying to chase the top 5 players of all time or so.

Lebron had a rough beginning to his career in terms of help, but he's going on 5 straight years now with ultra loaded historic type talented teams. And that is even discounting 09 and 10...which were definitely far above average.

So you are looking at 7 straight years with at least a chance to contend for a title...even if 09 and 10 weren't monster teams or anything.

He's only won twice in those 6 years....and has the worst choke of an all time great player in the finals ever.

Not many more chances left for Lebron to win titles.

Yeah, we are seeing how the historically talented Heat are doing without Lebron. :facepalm Another passive agressive hater hiding behing the ''objective'' fan mask.

[nba_55]

I really don't understand the people who say the Cavs are stacked, and then go on to say they wouldn't even be a playoff team or a first round exit in the west

You will never understand it if you try to be logical, put yourself in their mindset, the illogical blind hater mindset, you'll get it fast.

[ILLsmak]

you're a piece of shit who hates on Lebron even in a goddamn GAMETHREAD.



haha, this is one of those statements where you start out whispering and end up yelling the last words.

-Smak

[Solefade]

Brian Windhorst on The Herd today said the Cavs have been the best team in the last 2 months record wise and 12-1 against western conference teams

[FLDFSU]

Yeah, we are seeing how the historically talented Heat are doing without Lebron. :facepalm Another passive agressive hater hiding behing the ''objective'' fan mask.

:applause: He also said the Heat was the most stacked team of all time, and then the next day stated that if Memphis and the Heat were the meet in the finals he would pick Memphis...

[T_L_P]

LeBron James
Derrick Rose
Dwight Howard
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
Kevin Durant
Dirk Nowitzki
Tony Parker
Blake Griffin
Rajon Rondo

Funny that you say Love/Irving are not legitimately great players because they haven't made the postseason but go on to list rookie Griffin as a better player than Wade when he didn't make the Playoffs.

Here is 2011 Parker: 17/3/7/.569 TS%, bad defense

2011 Wade: 26/7/5/.582 TS%, very good defense

How are you honestly gonna list Parker over Wade? Manu was the best Spur that year anyway.

[tpols]

:applause: He also said the Heat was the most stacked team of all time, and then the next day stated that if Memphis and the Heat were the meet in the finals he would pick Memphis...

Do you just.. follow every poster that slights lebron around keeping notes on theit every post..? it's really wierd..


D mavs pre-decision was one of the biggest lebron proponents on this site.. and the biggest kobe hater (you would not know this considering you're April 2013.. which btw was one of the worst classes of posters ever). In debates back then he'd argue nothing was Lebron's fault that he wasn't a quitter or choker and that it was his poor team that was the reason for the cavs loss.

Then he saw Lebron perform the greatest choke of all time against his mavs and it was like the past finally made sense. He has no reason to have bias against lebron.. brans been stacking his team for years and you still haven't hopped off his d!ck even after he left 'your heat'.:lol

[FLDFSU]

Do you just.. follow every poster that slights lebron around keeping notes on theit every post..? it's really wierd..


D mavs pre-decision was one of the biggest lebron proponents on this site.. and the biggest kobe hater (you would not know this considering you're April 2013.. which btw was one of the worst classes of posters ever). In debates back then he'd argue nothing was Lebron's fault that he wasn't a quitter or choker and that it was his poor team that was the reason for the cavs loss.

Then he saw Lebron perform the greatest choke of all time against his mavs and it was like the past finally made sense. He has no reason to have bias against lebron.. brans been stacking his team for years and you still haven't hopped off his d!ck even after he left 'your heat'.:lol

No but I do remember discussions I had with certain posters who called me a bandwagoner when I tried to explained to them that just because Mario Chalmers managed not to turn over the ball as he crossed half court, or because Bosh managed to get 4 rebounds in 40 minutes does not make the Heat stacked the most stacked of all time.

I think it is a little strange that all of a sudden, per these same posters, the Heat are no longer stacked the second Lebron leaves, but all of a sudden Cleveland is...

Methinks such posters are at best full of BS, and at worse, trolls. They are also moronic bandwagon haters, which was my ultimate point.

The reason I make it a point to point it out now, is because these same idiots now talk about the Cavs in the same way they did my Heat...

Don't want anyone to think for a moment they aren't full of BS.

[nba_55]

Do you just.. follow every poster that slights lebron around keeping notes on theit every post..? it's really wierd..


D mavs pre-decision was one of the biggest lebron proponents on this site.. and the biggest kobe hater (you would not know this considering you're April 2013.. which btw was one of the worst classes of posters ever). In debates back then he'd argue nothing was Lebron's fault that he wasn't a quitter or choker and that it was his poor team that was the reason for the cavs loss.

Then he saw Lebron perform the greatest choke of all time against his mavs and it was like the past finally made sense. He has no reason to have bias against lebron.. brans been stacking his team for years and you still haven't hopped off his d!ck even after he left 'your heat'.:lol

One flip flopper defending another flip flopper:facepalm

[nba_55]

No but I do remember discussions I had with certain posters who called me a bandwagoner when I tried to explained to them that just because Mario Chalmers managed not to turn over the ball as he crossed half court, or because Bosh managed to get 4 rebounds in 40 minutes does not make the Heat stacked the most stacked of all time.

I think it is a little strange that all of a sudden, per these same posters, the Heat are no longer stacked the second Lebron leaves, but all of a sudden Cleveland is...

Methinks such posters are at best full of BS, and at worse, trolls. They are also moronic bandwagon haters, which was my ultimate point.

The reason I make it a point to point it out now, is because these same idiots now talk about the Cavs in the same way they did my Heat...

Don't want anyone to think for a moment they aren't full of BS.

They all told us Miami would get top 4 seed minimum and some of them told us Miami would still make the finals without Lebron :biggums: Now, it's the same thing with Cavs even if they are 2-10 without Lebron.

[JT123]

Yeah, we are seeing how the historically talented Heat are doing without Lebron. :facepalm Another passive agressive hater hiding behing the ''objective'' fan mask.
Pretty much.

[Lebronxrings]

20 win teams are considered stacked now?

[20Four]

20 win teams are considered stacked now?

http://i.imgur.com/9Kp0mgz.png

[Eric Cartman]

http://i.imgur.com/9Kp0mgz.png

exposed as a fraud

[DMAVS41]

:applause: He also said the Heat was the most stacked team of all time, and then the next day stated that if Memphis and the Heat were the meet in the finals he would pick Memphis...

I actually never said that you clown. I never said they were the most stacked team of all time.

At least don't lie if you are going to post.

[DMAVS41]

Do you just.. follow every poster that slights lebron around keeping notes on theit every post..? it's really wierd..


D mavs pre-decision was one of the biggest lebron proponents on this site.. and the biggest kobe hater (you would not know this considering you're April 2013.. which btw was one of the worst classes of posters ever). In debates back then he'd argue nothing was Lebron's fault that he wasn't a quitter or choker and that it was his poor team that was the reason for the cavs loss.

Then he saw Lebron perform the greatest choke of all time against his mavs and it was like the past finally made sense. He has no reason to have bias against lebron.. brans been stacking his team for years and you still haven't hopped off his d!ck even after he left 'your heat'.:lol

It was his poor team that was responsible for his losses in 09 especially though...

I haven't gone back on that...I just, rightfully, said we can't ignore a pattern of Lebron playing strange in weird moments after the 11 finals.

There was no reason to think in 10 that there was a pattern...it was literally the first time of his career he wasn't great in the playoffs outside of the 07 finals which is easily explained.

I also don't think it's "hating" to teach you Kobe fans some lessons about clutch play and game winning shots.

Remember how you guys were all saying Kobe was by far the best game winning shot maker?

Remember how the number came out and it was exactly what I was saying?

Calling fans out for over-rating an aspect of a player and ranking Kobe in the top 12 or so all time is not hating. It's valid opinion backed up by evidence.

[Prime_Shaq]

I really don't understand the people who say the Cavs are stacked, and then go on to say they wouldn't even be a playoff team or a first round exit in the west
Anyone who thinks a LeBron led team would moss the playoffs is kidding themselves anyways. Just blind haters.

[tpols]

It was his poor team that was responsible for his losses in 09 especially though...

I haven't gone back on that...I just, rightfully, said we can't ignore a pattern of Lebron playing strange in weird moments after the 11 finals.

There was no reason to think in 10 that there was a pattern...it was literally the first time of his career he wasn't great in the playoffs outside of the 07 finals which is easily explained.

that's what I said.. you thought 2010 lebron wasn't quitting or choking when he made up an fake elbow injury and showed signs of extreme passiveNess dead in the middle of a series.. Kobe fans saw it and always knew that flaw was there.. I mean it's fking pretty obvious if you watch the guy enough.

It took 2011 for you to finally see what we saw years before. And then 2013 further confirmed that tendency and we've seen it rear, randomly pop up from time to time ever since (and it's not like kobe taking Dumbass hero shots out of thirst for personal glory and missing.. Kobe was not ever scared of anything, just a fool sometimes.. you can visibly see bran choking).




I also don't think it's "hating" to teach you Kobe fans some lessons about clutch play and game winning shots.

Remember how you guys were all saying Kobe was by far the best game winning shot maker?

Remember how the number came out and it was exactly what I was saying?

Calling fans out for over-rating an aspect of a player and ranking Kobe in the top 12 or so all time is not hating. It's valid opinion backed up by evidence.

We said kobe was one of the most clutch players ever.. and he is.

Leading 2001 in fourth quarter playoff points.
Leading 2002 in fourth quarter playoff points.
second most game winners in league historythym
Ridiculous closing in 2008 up until the Celtics
Ridiculous closing in 2009 playoffs
Ridiculous closing in 2010 WCF's on bum knee
82 games has him as a top clutch scoring candidate for every year of his prime and they don't even have his peak closing numbers from 06 07 03 and 02.

This on top of coaches constantly saying Kobe is the most feared and game planned for player in close games.

Kobe's clutch resume is insane and stacks up against damn near anyone not named Michael jordan. You just chose to cherry pick one small criteria of the word clutch.

[Real14]

:roll:

http://www.soraspy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/koc-3-24-2011-31.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/rMRKlBa.gif

[FLDFSU]

I actually never said that you clown. I never said they were the most stacked team of all time.

At least don't lie if you are going to post.

Okay. Fine. To be technical you said the Heat were clearly the most stacked team in the NBA in 2013 and an historically stacked team.

I then brought up the fact that historically stacked teams don't have one person so dominate them in every major statistical category....

The next day you said a number of teams in the West would beat the Heat that year, including a Memphis team that had not even been to a Finals.

[Beastmode88]

If the cavs had the knicks (without melo) during the summer, would lebron still go back?

[FLDFSU]

If the cavs had the knicks (without melo) during the summer, would lebron still go back?

Probably. The Cavs won 33 games last year. And this is a franchise that has not even proven they can win more than 33 games in about 2 decades of basketball without James.

If Lebron was willing to go back to that...NYC doesn't seem much more horrible.

Especially considering 2 of those major pieces now play with him in Cleveland.

[SouBeachTalents]

If the cavs had the knicks (without melo) during the summer, would lebron still go back?

Please name me one all time great player that would voluntarily leave a contender to play for a horrible team

[Real14]

Please name me one all time great player that would voluntarily leave a contender to play for a horrible team
https://bossip.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/screen-shot-2014-11-05-at-9-20-28-am.png

[DMAVS41]

Okay. Fine. To be technical you said the Heat were clearly the most stacked team in the NBA in 2013 and an historically stacked team.

I then brought up the fact that historically stacked teams don't have one person so dominate them in every major statistical category....

The next day you said a number of teams in the West would beat the Heat that year, including a Memphis team that had not even been to a Finals.

Thank you for admitting you were making shit up.

They were stacked in 13. You don't go on that win streak without being absurdly stacked.

It doesn't take away anything from Lebron, but they were stacked. It's just a fact.

Go check my posts about what happened in the playoffs and how much credit I've said Lebron deserves for winning with a banged up Wade and slumping Bosh.

I did think the Grizzlies would beat them...I don't see the relevance...it was the style of play and matchup that made me think that. I don't think the Spurs were actually great in 13...and they certainly weren't in the Finals with Parker banged up and playing horribly.

[DMAVS41]

that's what I said.. you thought 2010 lebron wasn't quitting or choking when he made up an fake elbow injury and showed signs of extreme passiveNess dead in the middle of a series.. Kobe fans saw it and always knew that flaw was there.. I mean it's fking pretty obvious if you watch the guy enough.

It took 2011 for you to finally see what we saw years before. And then 2013 further confirmed that tendency and we've seen it rear, randomly pop up from time to time ever since (and it's not like kobe taking Dumbass hero shots out of thirst for personal glory and missing.. Kobe was not ever scared of anything, just a fool sometimes.. you can visibly see bran choking).




We said kobe was one of the most clutch players ever.. and he is.

Leading 2001 in fourth quarter playoff points.
Leading 2002 in fourth quarter playoff points.
second most game winners in league historythym
Ridiculous closing in 2008 up until the Celtics
Ridiculous closing in 2009 playoffs
Ridiculous closing in 2010 WCF's on bum knee
82 games has him as a top clutch scoring candidate for every year of his prime and they don't even have his peak closing numbers from 06 07 03 and 02.

This on top of coaches constantly saying Kobe is the most feared and game planned for player in close games.

Kobe's clutch resume is insane and stacks up against damn near anyone not named Michael jordan. You just chose to cherry pick one small criteria of the word clutch.


Nah...you guys went on and on about Kobe's game winning shots. Don't go back on that now tpols. Those numbers finally came out...especially the playoff numbers and you guys had to admit you were wrong...which I applaud you for doing that...most people don't.

Just like I had to admit there was more to this Lebron "choking" thing than I initially thought.

I go on what I see. I don't like to project too much when reality will answer all questions.

I think I've been proven more right than you on the Lebron front. Despite his flaws, he's a top 8 or so type player of all time and since 09 is on a historic tear through the NBA.

I remember laughing at clowns (can't remember if you were one) claiming Lebron would never win a title...etc.

[nba_55]

Thank you for admitting you were making shit up.

They were stacked in 13. You don't go on that win streak without being absurdly stacked.

It doesn't take away anything from Lebron, but they were stacked. It's just a fact.

Go check my posts about what happened in the playoffs and how much credit I've said Lebron deserves for winning with a banged up Wade and slumping Bosh.

I did think the Grizzlies would beat them...I don't see the relevance...it was the style of play and matchup that made me think that. I don't think the Spurs were actually great in 13...and they certainly weren't in the Finals with Parker banged up and playing horribly.

And why did you consider them stacked in 14?

[DMAVS41]

And why did you consider them stacked in 14?

I always said they were stacked in relation to their competition in the East...which they still were in 14.

The East was just so bad in 13 and 14....I mean...I don't think people understand just how much of a cake walk that really was for the Heat.

They could play like shit and still make the finals.

The Heat literally slumped their way to the finals...

Also, Wade..until 14....stepped up when they needed virtually every time. This goes unnoticed by a lot of Lebron stans.

[tpols]

I always said they were stacked in relation to their competition in the East...which they still were in 14.

The East was just so bad in 13 and 14....I mean...I don't think people understand just how much of a cake walk that really was for the Heat.

They could play like shit and still make the finals.

The Heat literally slumped their way to the finals...

Also, Wade..until 14....stepped up when they needed virtually every time. This goes unnoticed by a lot of Lebron stans.

This is literally exactly what I said a few months ago when the same posters here accused me of 'flip flopping'.. FLDFSU claimed I said the Heat were the most stacked team of all time and pulled a post of mine from June where I said the Heat are very stacked relative to their competition..... and then proceeded to use that quote as evidence of me saying they were the most stacked team of all time smh

[DMAVS41]

This is literally exactly what I said a few months ago when the same posters here accused me of 'flip flopping'.. FLDFSU claimed I said the Heat were the most stacked team of all time and pulled a post of mine from June where I said the Heat are very stacked relative to their competition..... and then proceeded to use that quote as evidence of me saying they were the most stacked team of all time smh

Yea...he does that a lot I guess.

Totally agree.

[Beastmode88]

Please name me one all time great player that would voluntarily leave a contender to play for a horrible team

Exactly that's my point. If the cavs weren't stacked no way Lebron would ever go back.

[SouBeachTalents]

Exactly that's my point. If the cavs weren't stacked no way Lebron would ever go back.

Lol, but that's a ridiculous criticism since not a single all time great player would do that either

[Beastmode88]

Lol, but that's a ridiculous criticism since not a single all time great player would do that either

I'm saying he's has a subtle way of putting himself in a position to get an advantage to win. People bought into his "The Letter" bullsh!t. People going to act like the current cavs roster isn't better than the Heat roster. :coleman:

[FLDFSU]

Thank you for admitting you were making shit up.

They were stacked in 13. You don't go on that win streak without being absurdly stacked.

It doesn't take away anything from Lebron, but they were stacked. It's just a fact.

Go check my posts about what happened in the playoffs and how much credit I've said Lebron deserves for winning with a banged up Wade and slumping Bosh.

I did think the Grizzlies would beat them...I don't see the relevance...it was the style of play and matchup that made me think that. I don't think the Spurs were actually great in 13...and they certainly weren't in the Finals with Parker banged up and playing horribly.

If a team like Memphis could beat them in the Finals. That seems to severely, if not fatally, undercut the notion that they are the most stacked team in the NBA, by far.

And finally, historically stacked teams do not have a single person so utterly dominate said team in all relevant statistical categories...unless that person is God.

The 2013 Heat was a good team, a championship team, with a lot of pieces to like. They should have even been one of the favorites. But they were not the most stacked in the NBA and they damn sure were not historically stacked like you were claiming.

And beyond that, the point is that you made this big fuss about how much talent this "historically stacked" Heat had only to pick 2 OTHER teams in the SAME year over them...

And if memory serves me correct this was at a time when it was late in the playoffs had already begun therefore most of the other teams were already eliminated. If not you would have probably chosen 10 other teams to beat "the most stacked team in the league by far."

[DMAVS41]

If a team like Memphis could beat them in the Finals. That seems to severely, if not fatally, undercut the notion that they are the most stacked team in the NBA, by far.

And finally, historically stacked teams do not have a single person so utterly dominate said team in all relevant statistical categories...unless that person is God.

The 2013 Heat was a good team, a championship team, with a lot of pieces to like. They should have even been one of the favorites. But they were not the most stacked in the NBA and they damn sure were not historically stacked like you were claiming.

And beyond that, the point is that you made this big fuss about how much talent this "historically stacked" Heat had only to pick 2 OTHER teams in the SAME year over them...

And if memory serves me correct this was at a time when it was late in the playoffs had already begun therefore most of the other teams were already eliminated. If not you would have probably chosen 10 other teams to beat "the most stacked team in the league by far."


You keep trying to remove Lebron from the equation. He is part of the team...so I think that is our difference.

Stacked teams can lose...it happens all the time.

And the Heat only had to play one team in the finals...playing in the East made life so much easier on them.

If Wade, Lebron, Bosh...playing in one of the worst conferences ever isn't a stacked team....then essentially no team in history has been stacked.

I don't know why you are so hell bent in downplaying how good the Heat were in relation to the East. It's just a fact.

They had the luxury of playing like shit and still making the finals. Most teams just never sniff that margin of error.

Take the Warriors this year...you think they can slump their way to the finals? Hell no...

[DMAVS41]

Forget the semantics...

How would you categorize a team of Wade, Lebron, and Bosh with solid role players playing in one of the weakest conferences in NBA history?

If stacked is the wrong word...I understand...just explain to me how you would describe it.

[Prime_Shaq]

You keep trying to remove Lebron from the equation. He is part of the team...so I think that is our difference.

Stacked teams can lose...it happens all the time.

And the Heat only had to play one team in the finals...playing in the East made life so much easier on them.

If Wade, Lebron, Bosh...playing in one of the worst conferences ever isn't a stacked team....then essentially no team in history has been stacked.

I don't know why you are so hell bent in downplaying how good the Heat were in relation to the East. It's just a fact.

They had the luxury of playing like shit and still making the finals. Most teams just never sniff that margin of error.

Take the Warriors this year...you think they can slump their way to the finals? Hell no...
Good post :applause:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Cavs arguably have the best front court in the league plus an all star guard..

and lebron..

stacked crazy

[FLDFSU]

This is literally exactly what I said a few months ago when the same posters here accused me of 'flip flopping'.. FLDFSU claimed I said the Heat were the most stacked team of all time and pulled a post of mine from June where I said the Heat are very stacked relative to their competition..... and then proceeded to use that quote as evidence of me saying they were the most stacked team of all time smh

Thank you for the clarification. It was "relative to competition." Which makes his assertion that Memphis would beat the Heat in the Finals absurd and contradictory.

[DMAVS41]

Thank you for the clarification. It was "relative to competition." Which makes his assertion that Memphis would beat the Heat in the Finals absurd and contradictory.

No it doesn't.

Thinking a stacked team could lose to a team with less talent does not contradict anything.

These games are not played on paper.

I thought Memphis would be a nightmare matchup for the Heat inside and cause them a ton of problems like the Pacers did.

The Grizzlies were just a better version of the Pacers.

You are really going off the deep end on this one.

[iamgine]

Forget the semantics...

How would you categorize a team of Wade, Lebron, and Bosh with solid role players playing in one of the weakest conferences in NBA history?

If stacked is the wrong word...I understand...just explain to me how you would describe it.
Talent wise, on paper they are stacked.

In reality, Bosh was reduced to Horace Grant level player. Wade and Lebron took something away from each other. Wade got hurt a lot and since he was past his prime, his impact wasn't felt on a lot of night.

Still stacked though, just in reality not as stacked as on paper.

[DMAVS41]

Talent wise, on paper they are stacked.

In reality, Bosh was reduced to Horace Grant level player. Wade and Lebron took something away from each other. Wade got hurt a lot and since he was past his prime, his impact wasn't felt on a lot of night.

Still stacked though, just not as stacked as the big names suggests.

Yes...I agree.

That is why I said go check my posts about how little help Lebron got at times in 13.

But here's the thing...they were so good relative to their competition that they could play subpar and still make the finals.

To me that is a stacked team because they had such a huge margin of error.

Again, Lebron is a huge part of all of that...but even a down Wade/Bosh are capable of things most other teams just don't have...especially in the East.

[SouBeachTalents]

Forget the semantics...

How would you categorize a team of Wade, Lebron, and Bosh with solid role players playing in one of the weakest conferences in NBA history?

If stacked is the wrong word...I understand...just explain to me how you would describe it.

My only problem with calling them "stacked" is that Wade & Bosh were downright bad through the 2013 playoffs. Wade averaged 14 ppg on 44% through the first 18 games of the playoffs, while Bosh was even worse. He averaged 12 & 7 through the entire postseason and was outplayed by Hibbert and Duncan. This isn't even mentioning he averaged 7 ppg on 24% in Games 4-7 of the ECF and put up a bagel in Game 7 of the Finals.

Regular season, sure, you could argue that, Wade was still playing like a top 10 player, especially during their win streak. Playoffs though, outside of Games 4-7 of the Finals from Wade, does any of the above sound "stacked" to you, or even good?

[tpols]

Thank you for the clarification. It was "relative to competition." Which makes his assertion that Memphis would beat the Heat in the Finals absurd and contradictory.


:wtf:

No it doesnT. Relative to competition was referring to EAST competition.. obviously. In the post of mine you quoted I even said heat out west wouldn't be stacked lol..

You're seriously twisting shit..

heat relative to imploding Pacers Kemba bobcats and old ass nets = stacked.

Heat relative to Memphis which is a superman version of the Pacers with better chemistry, spurs, Thunder etc = not really all that stacked.

What don't you understand.

[DMAVS41]

My only problem with calling them "stacked" is that Wade & Bosh were downright bad through the 2013 playoffs. Wade was averaging 14 ppg on 44% through the first 18 games of the playoffs, while Bosh was even worse. He averaged 12 & 7 through the entire postseason and was outplayed by Hibbert and Duncan. This isn't even mentioning he averaged 7 ppg on 24% in Games 4-7 of the ECF and put up a bagel in Game 7 of the Finals.

Regular season, sure, you could argue that, Wade was still playing like a top 10 player, especially during their win streak. Playoffs though, outside of Games 4-7 of the Finals from Wade, does any of the above sound "stacked" to you, or even good?

Yea, but if a team can play like crap and still make the finals...

Don't you think that is a pretty good indicator that they are stacked relative to their competition?

I totally agree that Lebron did not get a ton of help in 13 and 14 at times...

[SouBeachTalents]

Yea, but if a team can play like crap and still make the finals...

Don't you think that is a pretty good indicator that they are stacked relative to their competition?

I totally agree that Lebron did not get a ton of help in 13 and 14 at times...

Lol, you have no argument from me, the East was just horrific in 2013 & 2014, and pretty weak in 2012 as well. But when his two next best players are putting up performances like what I mentioned earlier on a nightly basis, it's hard to call that team "stacked". I just guess any team in the East with LeBron would be stacked relative to their competition that year

[DMAVS41]

Lol, you have no argument from me, the East was just horrific in 2013 & 2014, and pretty weak in 2012 as well. But when his two next best players are putting up performances like what I mentioned earlier on a nightly basis, it's hard to call that team "stacked". I guess any team in the East with LeBron would be stacked relative to their competition that year

Perhaps, but even though I don't like Bosh as much as most, he did a lot of great things for that team on both ends that go a bit unnoticed. The Heat also had a lot of solid "glue guys" in my opinion.

And Wade, up until 14...played high quality defense that really was integral to the success of that team.

[Asukal]

Bran is in a stacked team, too bad he's beta and cannot lead a team. :oldlol:

[FLDFSU]

You keep trying to remove Lebron from the equation. He is part of the team...so I think that is our difference.

Stacked teams can lose...it happens all the time.

And the Heat only had to play one team in the finals...playing in the East made life so much easier on them.

If Wade, Lebron, Bosh...playing in one of the worst conferences ever isn't a stacked team....then essentially no team in history has been stacked.

I don't know why you are so hell bent in downplaying how good the Heat were in relation to the East. It's just a fact.

They had the luxury of playing like shit and still making the finals. Most teams just never sniff that margin of error.

Take the Warriors this year...you think they can slump their way to the finals? Hell no...

Unless you think Lebron his God (He is not) "the most stacked team of all time relative to competition" should not have one person so thoroughly and utterly dominate them in ALL relevant statistical categories.

I don't care how good Jordan was. The Dream Team was not going to allow him to lead them in points, assists, rebounds, blocks, minutes, defend their best player, run offense through him, on occasion steals, etc.

If the 2013 Heat were so stacked, can they assert their "stackiness" and not allow the damn person already leading the team in assists and rebounds to also lead them in points? Or the person already having the offense run through him, not also take have him take on the team other team's most difficult match-up?

Can the "stackiness" of the Heat manage to not have negative +/- with him on the bench? Can the "stackiness" of the Heat manage not to lose a Finals game because one person needs to go the bench (2014) late in the game and already up?

The 2013 Heat were not historically stacked. They were a great, championship level team that led by an individual that covered up a lot of glaring holes.

[DMAVS41]

Unless you think Lebron his God (He is not) "the most stacked team of all time relative to competition" should not have one person so thoroughly and utterly dominate them in ALL relevant statistical categories.

I don't care how good Jordan was. The Dream Team was not going to allow him to lead them in points, assists, rebounds, blocks, minutes, defend their best player, run offense through him, on occasion steals, etc.

If the 2013 Heat were so stacked, can they assert their "stackiness" and not allow the damn person already leading the team in assists and rebounds to also lead them in points? Or the person already having the offense run through him, not also take have him take on the team other team's most difficult match-up?

Can the "stackiness" of the Heat manage to not have negative +/- with him on the bench? Can the "stackiness" of the Heat manage not to lose a Finals game because one person needs to go the bench (2014) late in the game and already up?

The 2013 Heat were not historically stacked. They were a great, championship level team that led by an individual that covered up a lot of glaring holes.

We've tried explaining this to you. You keep strawmanning and refusing to actually address our real position.

I completely agree with the bold.

Which is why I never said that...I just said they were stacked relative to arguably the shittiest conference ever in 13 and 14.

[Mr. Jabbar]

? is there any debate on this? i mean besides the lebron 1-guy family

[FLDFSU]

Forget the semantics...

How would you categorize a team of Wade, Lebron, and Bosh with solid role players playing in one of the weakest conferences in NBA history?

If stacked is the wrong word...I understand...just explain to me how you would describe it.

The 2013 Heat were not historically stacked. They were a great, championship level team that led by an individual that covered up a lot of glaring holes.

[DMAVS41]

The 2013 Heat were not historically stacked. They were a great, championship level team that led by an individual that covered up a lot of glaring holes.

Yep...and when you factor in the joke conference they played in...they were stacked relative to their weak ass competition.

It just seems like semantics or you ignoring just how bad the East was.

[FLDFSU]

No it doesn't.

Thinking a stacked team could lose to a team with less talent does not contradict anything.

These games are not played on paper.

I thought Memphis would be a nightmare matchup for the Heat inside and cause them a ton of problems like the Pacers did.

The Grizzlies were just a better version of the Pacers.

You are really going off the deep end on this one.

If there are glaring holes, such that a team "in weak era" (that hadn't even been to the Finals in said weak era) could so exploit that hole so much that they could win 4 out of 7 games...

please explain how that team is the "most stacked team of all time relative to competition"?

Does the most stacked team involve winning or just who can put on the greatest show?

Because if you are using most stacked to mean that...then I can see how you arrive at your conclusion...

[DMAVS41]

If there are glaring holes, such that a team "in weak era" (that hadn't even been to the Finals in said weak era) could so exploit that hole so much that they could win 4 out of 7 games...

please explain how that team is the "most stacked team of all time relative to competition"?

Does the most stacked team involve winning or just who can put on the greatest show?

Because if you are using most stacked to mean that...then I can see how you arrive at your conclusion...

Well, you could listen to us and realize we never said that. Find me a post where I was talking about the West and the Cavs where I said that.

If I said that...I was flat out wrong.

But that shouldn't matter because I'm telling you my position right now very clearly...and you seem unwilling to listen to it.

[Simple Jack]

The Cavs, post trade, are an absurdly stacked team in terms of talent.

But they lack experience together and just experience in the playoffs overall from the coach down to the bench.

They could easily win it all...and they could easily not make the Finals.

How accountable we hold Lebron should, as always, be based on how he plays first and foremost.

If he plays great and they lose...not a big deal.

If he plays like ass and they lose...yea...big deal...for a guy trying to chase the top 5 players of all time or so.

Lebron had a rough beginning to his career in terms of help, but he's going on 5 straight years now with ultra loaded historic type talented teams. And that is even discounting 09 and 10...which were definitely far above average.

So you are looking at 7 straight years with at least a chance to contend for a title...even if 09 and 10 weren't monster teams or anything.

He's only won twice in those 6 years....and has the worst choke of an all time great player in the finals ever.

Not many more chances left for Lebron to win titles.

09 and 10 were definitely far above average? Relative to what?

[20Four]

JT123 got his thread deleted LMAO:

Are Bron and Kyrie the most clutch duo of our lifetime?

he got it deleted: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=370568

but look at this:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=370568

[aj1987]

Yep...and when you factor in the joke conference they played in...they were stacked relative to their weak ass competition.

It just seems like semantics or you ignoring just how bad the East was.
And yet, they were significantly better against the WC in '13 and '14.

[3ball]

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/0428/nba_g_cavs11_576.jpg


Plus Shaq, JJ Hickson, Zydrunas, and Anthony Parker... that's a very good supporting cast by any standard.

[aj1987]

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/0428/nba_g_cavs11_576.jpg


Plus Shaq, Zydrunas, and Anthony Parker... that's a very good supporting cast by any standard.
If that's a "very good" supporting cast, MJ had by far the GOAT supporting cast since '91. No other supporting cast is remotely close to what he had.

[Jud]

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/0428/nba_g_cavs11_576.jpg


Plus Shaq, JJ Hickson, Zydrunas, and Anthony Parker... that's a very good supporting cast by any standard.
:biggums:

Shaq was almost 40
Hickson barely had any NBA experience
Anthony Parker was only good for his 3 pt shooting
Zydrunas was also out of his prime

[3ball]

I don't care how good Jordan was. The Dream Team was not going to allow him to lead them in points, assists, rebounds, blocks, minutes, defend their best player, run offense through him, on occasion steals, etc.



MJ had to produce much more for his accolades than Lebron :


Playoffs Thru Age 29:

MJ: 34.7 PPG, 6.7 RPG, 6.6 APG, 2.3 SPG, 1.0 BPG, 50.1 FG%, 35.2% 3 PT, 58.1 TS%, 119 ORtg, 29.6 PER
LB: 28.0 PPG, 8.4 RPG, 6.4 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.9 BPG, 48.2 FG%, 33.3% 3 PT, 57.8 TS%, 116 ORtg, 27.7 PER

Source for Jordan's PPG stats: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1993-sum:playoffs_per_game
Source for Jordan's Advanced Stats: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced
Source for all Lebron stats: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html



Finals Thru Age 29:


MJ: 36.3 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 7.9 APG, 2.0 SPG, 0.76 BPG, 52.6% FG, 40.7% 3 PT
LB: 24.1 PPG, 8.7 RPG, 6.4 APG, 1.8 SPG, 0.55 BPG, 46.3 FG%, 31.2% 3 PT

For Finals data, scroll to bottom: http://swishnba.com/2014/06/05/michael-jordan-vs-lebron-james-2014-comparison/


Jordan beats Lebron in every single stat category except rebounding.. But that's just a slight gap in defensive rebounding because Jordan always had superior offensive rebounding stats in the regular season, playoffs, and Finals.

Jordan also passed better, shot 3-pointers better, and was more efficient, despite scoring 25% more in the playoffs, and 50% more in the Finals (indeed, 1.5 Finals games from Lebron = 1 Finals game from MJ).

[FLDFSU]

MJ had to produce much more for his accolades than Lebron :


Playoffs Thru Age 29:

MJ: 34.7 PPG, 6.7 RPG, 6.6 APG, 2.3 SPG, 1.0 BPG, 50.1 FG%, 35.2% 3 PT, 58.1 TS%, 119 ORtg, 29.6 PER
LB: 28.0 PPG, 8.4 RPG, 6.4 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.9 BPG, 48.2 FG%, 33.3% 3 PT, 57.8 TS%, 116 ORtg, 27.7 PER

Source for Jordan's PPG stats: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1993-sum:playoffs_per_game
Source for Jordan's Advanced Stats: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced
Source for all Lebron stats: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html



Finals Thru Age 29:


MJ: 36.3 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 7.9 APG, 2.0 SPG, 0.76 BPG, 52.6% FG, 40.7% 3 PT
LB: 24.1 PPG, 8.7 RPG, 6.4 APG, 1.8 SPG, 0.55 BPG, 46.3 FG%, 31.2% 3 PT

For Finals data, scroll to bottom: http://swishnba.com/2014/06/05/michael-jordan-vs-lebron-james-2014-comparison/


Jordan beats Lebron in every single stat category except rebounding.. But that's just a slight gap in defensive rebounding because Jordan always had superior offensive rebounding stats in the regular season, playoffs, and Finals.

Jordan also passed better, shot 3-pointers better, and was more efficient, despite scoring 25% more in the playoffs, and 50% more in the Finals (indeed, 1.5 Finals games from Lebron is needed to equal 1 Finals game from Jordan).

Did Jordan lead his "most stacked team of all time relative to competition" in all relevant statistical categories?

[Milbuck]

FLDFSU is literally fapping right now. This is basically his thread, like Grinder's draft thread or the Lebron stans' Lebron thread.

[3ball]

have Lebron take on the team other team's most difficult match-up


This is a flat out lie by the media - Lebron is never "assigned" to the other team's best player.. That player just happens to occasionally be a be a SF (Durant, George), so Lebron is naturally matched up with them anyway.

Lebron guarded Derrick Rose that one time and now the media acts like Lebron does this every game, against every team.. But it was just that one time.. And only guarding a PG one time is nothing - For example, MJ was a SG, so he had to guard PG's all the time... But no one made a big deal about it.

Most importantly, all of Lebron's Finals losses have come to all-time great power forwards (Duncan and Dirk), yet I've never seen Lebron guard either of these guys for even ONE possession in the Finals.

It's simply a massive fabrication by the media to say Lebron guards power forwards - he almost never does.. and when he does, it's a garbage big like Tiago Splitter.. if Lebron does happen to guard a decent PF, like say David West in Game 1 of 2014 ECF, Lebron gets thoroughly abused and forces his coach to change the entire defensive game plan for the remainder of the series.

[warriorfan]

This is a flat out lie by the media - Lebron is never "assigned" to the other team's best player.. That player just happens to occasionally be a be a SF (Durant, George), so Lebron is naturally matched up with them anyway.

Lebron guarded Derrick Rose that one time and now the media acts like Lebron does this every game, against every team.. But it was just that one time.. And only guarding a PG one time is nothing - For example, MJ was a SG, so he had to guard PG's all the time... But no one made a big deal about it.

Most importantly, all of Lebron's Finals losses have come to all-time great power forwards (Duncan and Dirk), yet I've never seen Lebron guard either of these guys for even ONE possession in the Finals.

It's simply a massive fabrication by the media to say Lebron guards power forwards - he almost never does.. and when he does, it's a garbage big like Tiago Splitter.. if Lebron does happen to guard a decent PF, like say David West in Game 1 of 2014 ECF, Lebron gets thoroughly abused and forces his coach to change the entire defensive game plan for the remainder of the series.

Yep, Lebron has been on the gradual decline defensively for the last 5 years. He was a very good defender when he was at his physical peek in 2009 but his defense has now fallen to average. He doesn't have enough in the tank for elite and consistent 2 way play anymore.

[3ball]

"most stacked team of all time relative to competition"


Every team Jordan faced in the Finals had more talent than his Bulls.

Even 1991 - James Worthy, Vlade Divac, Byron Scott, AC Green, Sam Perkins, Elden Campbell > Pippen, Grant, nobody, nobody, nobody, nobody

There's something you're missing here - Jordan's stats and contribution to his team wasn't just superior to Lebron, it was superior to everyone back then too.. Why did Jordan have superior stats to everyone?... because he had the least help... 2+2=4.





Did Jordan lead his "most stacked team of all time relative to competition" in all relevant statistical categories?


Many players lead their team in multiple categories - but why give a shit about that when Lebron's ACTUAL PERFORMANCE is so much worse than MJ?


Stats Thru Age 29 - PLAYOFFS:

Jordan: 34.7 PPG / 6.6 APG / 58.1% TS / 35.2% 3 PT
Lebron: 28.0 PPG / 6.4 APG / 57.8% TS / 33.3% 3 PT


Stats Thru Age 29 - FINALS:

Jordan: 36.3 PPG / 7.9 APG / 52.6% FG / 40.7% 3 PT
Lebron: 24.1 PPG / 6.3 APG / 46.3% FG / 31.2% 3 PT
.

[3ball]

The 2013 Heat were not historically stacked.


They weren't as stacked as they COULD have been because Lebron's style and presence turned Bosh into a completely different player - an inferior one that doesn't play to his strength and only gets 16 PPG.

A team can only maximize their overall production and reach their ceiling if the stats of all players are at their capacity.. So the #1 option must get his stats without hindering his teammates' stats - his production must be added right on top of his teammates' without hindering their stats at all.. Unfortunately for Lebron, he can only get his stats by reducing the stats of his teammates (i.e. Bosh, Wade, Love) - accordingly, his teams don't reach the ceiling indicated by their raw, on-paper talent.

Additionally, unlike the GOAT, Lebron can only put up elite numbers as a ball-dominator (point-guard style) - the NBA's new player-tracking stats (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/possessions/?sort=TOP&dir=1) show that Lebron and Harden are the only wings (SG's or SF's) in the entire league that dominate the ball as much as point guards.

Not surprisingly, Lebron's ball-dominant style clashed with Wade, which is the why the Heat were a worse team with Lebron and Wade on the floor together than otherwise - Lebron was unable to adjust his game and this lack of chemistry prevented the team from reaching the ceiling indicated by their raw, on-paper talent.
.

[coin24]

Pretty sure the cavs are stacked.. Especially in comparison to how pathetic the East is..

1st option kyrie batman dropping 57 on the defending champs and hitting clutch shots :bowdown:

[JohnFreeman]

It's a great team, but not "stacked". The bench is awful

[JebronLames]

It's a great team, but not "stacked". The bench is awful
Best supporting cast Lebron has ever had by a comfortable margin.

[sportjames23]

you're a piece of shit who hates on Lebron even in a goddamn GAMETHREAD.

go die in a fire bitch.


http://www.idolol.com/pictures/de489e8e29e7b931330c1f58e110fc27.png

[DMAVS41]

09 and 10 were definitely far above average? Relative to what?

Relative to the teams in the league those years.

Look...ask anyone here about how much I argued for Lebron in 09 and 10, but we can't deny that those were really good teams.

They weren't true title contending teams unless you factor in the greatness and rarity of Lebron, but they also weren't scrub teams.

They were elite defensively and fit well next to Lebron to let him play his optimal style.

I don't think Lebron should be held to a title standard or anything those years, but we also don't have to pretend he was playing with crap.

Those teams were very good...just not great. It takes great to win the title most of the time.

[DMAVS41]

And yet, they were significantly better against the WC in '13 and '14.

Playing a limited number of regular season games while being able to coast and rest against the East routinely.

Are you actually going to argue this?

People just can't admit how much worse the East was in 13 and 14?

Dude...the Pacers, the best team they played in 13 and 14 in the East, would have been first round fodder in the West...and that's if they would have made the playoffs...which wouldn't have been a lock.

[nba_55]

I always said they were stacked in relation to their competition in the East...which they still were in 14.

The East was just so bad in 13 and 14....I mean...I don't think people understand just how much of a cake walk that really was for the Heat.

They could play like shit and still make the finals.

The Heat literally slumped their way to the finals...

Also, Wade..until 14....stepped up when they needed virtually every time. This goes unnoticed by a lot of Lebron stans.

What about the finals? Were they stacked compared to their competition ( the Spurs)?

[nba_55]

Playing a limited number of regular season games while being able to coast and rest against the East routinely.

Are you actually going to argue this?

People just can't admit how much worse the East was in 13 and 14?

Dude...the Pacers, the best team they played in 13 and 14 in the East, would have been first round fodder in the West...and that's if they would have made the playoffs...which wouldn't have been a lock.

LOL are you some kind of god? How do you know all this, you seems so sure? Please tell us what will happen in these playoffs, I could make a lot of money.

[DMAVS41]

LOL are you some kind of god? How do you know all this, you seems so sure? Please tell us what will happen in these playoffs, I could make a lot of money.

It's logic. They would have been fighting for a playoff spot in 14 in the West.

[DMAVS41]

What about the finals? Were they stacked compared to their competition ( the Spurs)?

No.

[masonanddixon]

Using black-people speak, Cleveland is 'most-definitely' stacked.

[FLDFSU]

Every team Jordan faced in the Finals had more talent than his Bulls.

Even 1991 - James Worthy, Vlade Divac, Byron Scott, AC Green, Sam Perkins, Elden Campbell > Pippen, Grant, nobody, nobody, nobody, nobody

There's something you're missing here - Jordan's stats and contribution to his team wasn't just superior to Lebron, it was superior to everyone back then too.. Why did Jordan have superior stats to everyone?... because he had the least help... 2+2=4.



Many players lead their team in multiple categories - but why give a shit about that when Lebron's ACTUAL PERFORMANCE is so much worse than MJ?


Stats Thru Age 29 - PLAYOFFS:

Jordan: 34.7 PPG / 6.6 APG / 58.1% TS / 35.2% 3 PT
Lebron: 28.0 PPG / 6.4 APG / 57.8% TS / 33.3% 3 PT


Stats Thru Age 29 - FINALS:

Jordan: 36.3 PPG / 7.9 APG / 52.6% FG / 40.7% 3 PT
Lebron: 24.1 PPG / 6.3 APG / 46.3% FG / 31.2% 3 PT
.

Nobody is comparing Lebron to MJ per se. So I have no idea why you are comparing PPG, APG, etc. What I want to know is did Jordan, lead his "most stacked team of all time relative to competition" in all major statistical categories?

The Miami Heat is purported to be this stacked team...okay...fine; how come this stacked team allows one person to dominate them in everything? Why couldn't the great Mario Chalmers lead the team in Assists? Or Bosh in rebounds? Or Wade in minutes played?

Why couldn't this stacked team manage to have a positive +/- when James is on the bench?

Beyond that, this is an odd way to define a stacked team considering that the Heat, with essentially the same roster, playing in the same weak Eastern Conference, was picked to be a first round exit by the same posters calling Miami "stacked".

[nba_55]

It's logic. They would have been fighting for a playoff spot in 14 in the West.

a 56-26 team fighting for a playoffs spot, DGod41, WE ARE NOT WORTHY :bowdown: :bowdown:

[DMAVS41]

a 56-26 team fighting for a playoffs spot, DGod, WE ARE NOT WORTHY :bowdown: :bowdown:

That was in the East.

It took 49 to get in...in the West. That Pacers team crumbled as well and feasted against the East.


They absolutely would have been battling for the playoffs and would have likely finished in that 48 to 52 win range.

Do you really dispute this?

[nba_55]

That was in the East.

It took 49 to get in...in the West. That Pacers team crumbled as well and feasted against the East.


They absolutely would have been battling for the playoffs and would have likely finished in that 48 to 52 win range.

Do you really dispute this?

Come on DGOD41, you are know better than this! Give us a more specific number, could you also give us their point differential for the whole season if they played in west?

[DMAVS41]

Come on DGOD41, you are know better than this! Give us a more specific number, could you also give us their point differential for the whole season if they played in west?

Just admit you were wrong.

All logic points to the Pacers fighting to make the playoffs...and I don't see any evidence that they are beating the Spurs or Thunder.

So...you think they weren't first round fodder in the West?

Please answer.

[nba_55]

We've tried explaining this to you. You keep strawmanning and refusing to actually address our real position.

I completely agree with the bold.

Which is why I never said that...I just said they were stacked relative to arguably the shittiest conference ever in 13 and 14.

So stacked relative to their EC competition that they needed 7 games to beat the Pacers, DGOD41 WE ARE NOT WORTHY :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[nba_55]

Just admit you were wrong.

All logic points to the Pacers fighting to make the playoffs...and I don't see any evidence that they are beating the Spurs or Thunder.

So...you think they weren't first round fodder in the West?

Please answer.

I don't know how they would have done, neither you do.

[DMAVS41]

I don't know how they would have done, neither you do.

Well, we know that they crumbled the 2nd half of the year.

We know that they were 18-12 against the West. We know they would have been massive underdogs to beat the Spurs or Thunder.

So...we know quite a bit.

We know, using logic and reason, that they would have been around a 50 or so win team likely and would have had very little chance to beat the Spurs/Thunder.

Do we know for sure? Of course not...

[DMAVS41]

So stacked relative to their EC competition that they needed 7 games to beat the Pacers, DGOD41 WE ARE NOT WORTHY :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

And that stacked team played like complete shit and still made the finals. You do realize that is evidence of being stacked relative to the competition.

When you can play like shit and still make the finals...you are ****ing stacked relative to the competition.

[FLDFSU]

What about the finals? Were they stacked compared to their competition ( the Spurs)?

DMAVS has changed characterization of "stacked" in relation to Miami 2013 at least 3 times so you are going to have a hard time pinning him down.

And I am strictly talking about the 2013 Miami Heat:

First, in 2013 I pinned him down on what he meant by "stacked." I thought he meant "most stacked team of all time" like most of ISH trolls were stating. DMAVS said no, Miami was not the most stacked team of all time, instead they were "the most stacked team of all time relative to competition.

A couple of days later he changed it to Miami was just stacked.

It wasn't until 2014, that he started to refer to that Miami team as once again, "the most stacked team relative to competition. But this time, he started using "relative to competition" to mean: against EASTERN conference teams ONLY.

Which is what he claimed yesterday. Despite the fact this directly contradicts what he was saying in May, 2013, that the Heat were stacked as compared to all 29 other teams.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=301325&page=5

[knicksman]

I was expecting bran to be 2/6 after this season but I guess ill have to settle for 2/5

[DMAVS41]

DMAVS has changed characterization of "stacked" in relation to Miami 2013 at least 3 times so you are going to have a hard time pinning him down.

And I am strictly talking about the 2013 Miami Heat:

First, in 2013 I pinned him down on what he meant by "stacked." I thought he meant "most stacked team of all time" like most of ISH trolls were stating. DMAVS said no, Miami was not the most stacked team of all time, instead they were "the most stacked team of all time relative to competition.

A couple of days later he changed it to Miami was just stacked.

It wasn't until 2014, that he started to refer to that Miami team as once again, "the most stacked team relative to competition. But this time, he started using "relative to competition" to mean: against EASTERN conference teams ONLY.

Which is what he claimed yesterday. Despite the fact this directly contradicts what he was saying in May, 2013, that the Heat were stacked as compared to all 29 other teams.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=301325&page=5


Here is what I said in the thread you just ****ing quoted:

I'm assuming you are just calling them the most stacked team ever for shock impact. Because the current Heat are clearly not the most stacked team ever.

ROFL...that is from 2013 you clown. I even, in that thread you posted, go on to say that the 09 Lakers were probably superior in relation to their competition.

Does that really sound like someone claiming the Heat were the most stacked team ever? Can you please stop lying about this?

It can't get any more clear than that. You have just repeatedly made shit up.

What I said, and I stand by...is this:

The Heat were stacked during the last 4 years. When you have Lebron, Wade, and Bosh...and play in the league they did...you have a stacked team. Now, that doesn't mean they can't be beat...and doesn't even mean they are the best team.

Stacked refers to talent generally...not how good a team is. Everyone knows this but you apparently.

The 12 Thunder, for example, were a ****ing absurdly stacked team...doesn't mean they were the best though.

As for the most stacked team ever...I never said that...not ever. All I ever said was that in relation to the shitty conference they played in...the Heat might have been the most stacked team relative to their competition in 13 and 14.

Are you still really confused? Damn you must be dumb...

[DMAVS41]

Continued...then I posted this in response to people telling me how much more stacked the 13 Heat were than the 09 Lakers:

Ok.

I'm assuming you will agree that Gasol in 09 playoffs is just better than Wade without question right now. Gasol put up 18/11/3 and shot 58 percent from the field and played as good or better defense than Wade is currently.

Then lets go to Odom vs Bosh...which is surprisingly closer than you would think.

Odom 12/9/2 59% TS and better defense than Bosh easily
Bosh 14/7/1 58% TS

I mean....I know Bosh spaces the floor and everything, but he just isn't anything special as a third man. He's really good, but thats it. Odom really was just as good as the third man.

Then you have the role players. I personally would take Ariza over Allen and Fisher over Chalmers. Bynum and Birdman actually play very similar roles...LOL.

I'd give the Heat an edge on guys like Cole, Battier, Haslem over Brown, Farmar, Walton, Sasha....

But to act like it's absurd is just laughable. The 09 Lakers had the clear cut better 2nd option and the clear cut better coach.

The first 2 rounds don't matter to me much, but I completely disagree with you. I think the Pacers are better than the Nuggets and the Spurs are definitely better than the Magic.


I ask again...what the **** are you even talking about?

[DMAVS41]

There seems to be some confusion here on terminology.

Generally when someone talks about a team being stacked...they are talking about the kind of players they have on their team. Not necessarily how good said team actually is. It's more of take on talent level...

For example, the current Mavericks are actually a pretty stacked team. They suck right now, but their overall talent level is elite. It's just not working. It not working does not change the fact that they are loaded with individual talent and a great coach.

Clearly, the Hawks are a better team than the Mavericks this year, but the Mavs could be labeled as stacked while the Hawks would never get such a label.

I thought this distinction would be fairly obvious to most, but apparently it isn't.

Having a stacked team does not mean you can't lose and certainly does not mean that you always have the best overall team.

The 2011 through 2014 were absolutely stacked. They also were absolutely not the most stacked team ever (even though I'm pretty sure nobody, and definitely not me, ever said this)...

They were, perhaps, the most stacked team relative to their shitty conference ever. I'm not sure on this as I really can only go back to the late 70's at the earliest in terms of in depth knowledge of the game. So I'm missing a chunk of NBA history I can't speak to.

But I grow tired of this debate. Just Lebron fanboys downplaying his team like anyone gives a shit. The dude choked his ass off horribly in the 11 finals when he probably had the most loaded team of the 4 years together. Just the truth...

Wade was still great in 12...and then it was cupcake city in 13 and 14 to get to the finals....and if not for Ray Allen bailing another Lebron chokejob out...the Heat would be stuck on one title.

So calm the **** down and come back to reality. When you can play like shit and still win your conference...you are stacked. When you have arguably the greatest shooter in NBA history off your bench to save the season...you are stacked.

End of story.

[DMAVS41]

And goddamn tpols is right.

April 2013 is the worst class of ISH poster ever. It's like all the worst and dumbest basketball fans around the world joined ISH at the same time.

Just awful.

[FLDFSU]

Here is what I said in the thread you just ****ing quoted:

I'm assuming you are just calling them the most stacked team ever for shock impact. Because the current Heat are clearly not the most stacked team ever.

ROFL...that is from 2013 you clown. I even, in that thread you posted, go on to say that the 09 Lakers were probably superior in relation to their competition.

Does that really sound like someone claiming the Heat were the most stacked team ever? Can you please stop lying about this?

It can't get any more clear than that. You have just repeatedly made shit up.

What I said, and I stand by...is this:

The Heat were stacked during the last 4 years. When you have Lebron, Wade, and Bosh...and play in the league they did...you have a stacked team. Now, that doesn't mean they can't be beat...and doesn't even mean they are the best team.

Stacked refers to talent generally...not how good a team is. Everyone knows this but you apparently.

The 12 Thunder, for example, were a ****ing absurdly stacked team...doesn't mean they were the best though.

As for the most stacked team ever...I never said that...not ever. All I ever said was that in relation to the shitty conference they played in...the Heat might have been the most stacked team relative to their competition in 13 and 14.

Are you still really confused? Damn you must be dumb...

Now, now, now with the name calling...:no:

I explicitly stated that you DID NOT call the Heat "the most stacked team of all time." You need to re-read my posts. In fact, I see that you make it a point throughout 2013 to state or even challenge anyone who claims that the Heat are the most stacked of team all-time.

BUT what you did do was go back and forth between characterizations of the Heat as simply "stacked" and "most stacked relative to competition."

And, you clearly changed what "relative to competition" means by 2014. Pre-2014, "competition" meant the entire league to you. Now "competition" means Eastern conference only.

All that posts does was point out your evolving definition of what "stacked" or "stacked relative to competition" means. You clearly believed that the 2013 Heat was stacked in relative to the ENTIRE league.

But then in 2014, it changes to this:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=331823

Nah...league is much better this year than it's been the last few years assuming there aren't a ton of injuries.

Still absolutely stacked for their conference...must be nice basically having a free pass to the NBA finals last year and this year.

And just because you contradict and/or have convoluted posts about this particular topic doesn't mean I think you a bad poster or a troll.

Reviewing tpols posting history on the other hand establishes he is a troll.

[FLDFSU]

And also,

You talk about how if you the Bulls had Lebron they would be so much better than the 2013 version of the Heat...

Again, if the Heat are so much more "stacked relative to competition" (even if we assume that you mean just Eastern conference teams) how in the world can you remove one player, add him to the Bulls, and then think that the Bulls would be better than the "stacked" Heat he just left?

Unless of course, you think that it is basically the sole presence of James who is making his team "stacked." Lebron must be such a massive part of what makes the 2013 Heat "stacked" (relative to the Eastern Conference)...

to the point that your characterization of "stacked" is useless.

Lebron is literally the "stacked."

And please remember, you are the one who characterized the 2013 Eastern Conference as sh*tty...so please don't now talk about how the 2013 Bulls aren't that bad...http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=290729&page=12

[DMAVS41]

And also,

You talk about how if you the Bulls had Lebron they would be so much better than the 2013 version of the Heat...

Again, if the Heat are so much more "stacked relative to competition" (even if we assume that you mean just Eastern conference teams) how in the world can you remove one player, add him to the Bulls, and then think that the Bulls would be better than the "stacked" Heat he just left?

Unless of course, you think that it is basically the sole presence of James who is making his team "stacked." Lebron must be such a massive part of what makes the 2013 Heat "stacked" (relative to the Eastern Conference)...

to the point that your characterization of "stacked" is useless.

Lebron is literally the "stacked."

And please remember, you are the one who characterized the 2013 Eastern Conference as sh*tty...so please don't now talk about how the 2013 Bulls aren't that bad...http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=290729&page=12


Dude....Lebron is part of the team.

I've tried explaining this to you so many times. You keep looking at it from the Lebron fanboy perspective like it takes away something from your hero because his team is stacked.

Lebron is part of the ****ing team. Of course he's the biggest reason they are stacked. He was by far the best player on the damn team.

Seriously...how many times must I explain that to you? Have you not read one of my posts where I fully agree with you that Lebron was the biggest reason I called them stacked.

The other stuff is just clarifying it for you. It's not difficult. They were stacked and they played in a shit conference. And yes...the biggest reason they were so good was Lebron.

This is true with almost every team with a great all time player in his prime. The 09 Lakers weren't stacked relative to their competition without Kobe. The 11 Mavs would have sucked and been a 30 win team without Dirk. The current Warriors probably are a borderline playoff team without Curry.

On and on.

Tpols and I have explained this shit clearly to you time and time again...it's on you now to figure it out.

I'm out.

[Lebronxrings]

Dude....Lebron is part of the team.

I've tried explaining this to you so many times. You keep looking at it from the Lebron fanboy perspective like it takes away something from your hero because his team is stacked.

Lebron is part of the ****ing team. Of course he's the biggest reason they are stacked. He was by far the best player on the damn team.

Seriously...how many times must I explain that to you? Have you not read one of my posts where I fully agree with you that Lebron was the biggest reason I called them stacked.

The other stuff is just clarifying it for you. It's not difficult. They were stacked and they played in a shit conference. And yes...the biggest reason they were so good was Lebron.

This is true with almost every team with a great all time player in his prime. The 09 Lakers weren't stacked relative to their competition without Kobe. The 11 Mavs would have sucked and been a 30 win team without Dirk. The current Warriors probably are a borderline playoff team without Curry.

On and on.

Tpols and I have explained this shit clearly to you time and time again...it's on you now to figure it out.

I'm out.
dallas is more stacked...