Most points in the finals since 2000 (total points)

[TheMarkMadsen]

1. Kobe Bryant - 937

2. Shaq - 753

3. Dwayne Wade - 693

4. Lebron James - 656

5. Tim Duncan - 571

6. Tony Parker - 479

7. Manu Ginobili - 407

8. Derek Fisher - 397

9. Ray Allen - 347

10. Chris Bosh - 337

interesting stats

[Nuff Said]

Lol Chris bosh made the list. And woot for my boy Wade.

[navy]

What's the shooting percentages?

[StephHamann]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY9HjNWbJvA

[TheMarkMadsen]

If you include Shaq and Duncans pre 2000 finals they are at

Shaq - 865

Duncan - 708

[24-Inch_Chrome]

What's the shooting percentages?

Here are the top-10 with FG%/PPG, rankings among their peers in brackets. I used basketball-reference to get the totals but didn't see PPG listed so I did it myself (if there's an error it's on me but they should all be correct).

1) Kobe Bryant - 937 - 41.2% (10) - 25.3 PPG (2)

2) Shaquille O'Neal - 753 - 60.3% (1) - 28.9 PPG (1)

3) Dwyane Wade - 693 - 47.6% (2) - 23.9 PPG (4)

4) LeBron James - 656 - 46.3% (4) - 24.3 PPG (3)

5) Tim Duncan - 571 - 47.4% (3) - 19.7 PPG (5)

6) Tony Parker - 479 - 45.6% (6) - 16.5 PPG (6)

7) Manu Ginobli - 407 - 43.8% (8) - 14 PPG (8)

8) Derek Fisher - 376 - 42.9% (9) - 8.7 PPG (10)

9) Ray Allen - 347 - 44.8% (7) - 13.9 PPG (9)

10) Chris Bosh - 337 - 45.9% (5) - 14.7 PPG (7)

Pau Gasol ended up 11th on total finals points since 2000, he posted the second highest FG% at 52.8% on 17.3 PPG.

[ArbitraryWater]

Can you include Shot attempts?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

I'm a bit confused here... in this stretch Kobe played 7 finals, literally twice as many as Shaq did... and he scored a measly 180 more points?

[JohnFreeman]

LeBron stay winning ^

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Can you include Shot attempts?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

I'm a bit confused here... in this stretch Kobe played 7 finals, literally twice as many as Shaq did... and he scored a measly 180 more points?

Here are FGA, again ranks are in brackets.

1) Kobe Bryant - 937 - 808 (1)

2) Shaquille O'Neal - 753 - 491 (4)

3) Dwyane Wade - 693 - 529 (2)

4) LeBron James - 656 - 529 (3)

5) Tim Duncan - 571 - 456 (5)

6) Tony Parker - 479 - 428 (6)

7) Manu Ginobli - 407 - 288 (8)

8) Derek Fisher - 376 - 296 (7)

9) Ray Allen - 347 - 250 (10)

10) Chris Bosh - 337 - 283 (9)

[DMV2]

Here are the top-10 with FG%/PPG, rankings among their peers in brackets. I used basketball-reference to get the totals but didn't see PPG listed so I did it myself (if there's an error it's on me but they should all be correct).

1) Kobe Bryant - 937 - 41.2% (10) - 25.3 PPG (2)

2) Shaquille O'Neal - 753 - 60.3% (1) - 28.9 PPG (1)

3) Dwyane Wade - 693 - 47.6% (2) - 23.9 PPG (4)

4) LeBron James - 656 - 46.3% (4) - 24.3 PPG (3)

5) Tim Duncan - 571 - 47.4% (3) - 19.7 PPG (5)

6) Tony Parker - 479 - 45.6% (6) - 16.5 PPG (6)

7) Manu Ginobli - 407 - 43.8% (8) - 14 PPG (8)

8) Derek Fisher - 376 - 42.9% (9) - 8.7 PPG (10)

9) Ray Allen - 347 - 44.8% (7) - 13.9 PPG (9)

10) Chris Bosh - 337 - 45.9% (5) - 14.7 PPG (7)

Pau Gasol ended up 11th on total finals points since 2000, he posted the second highest FG% at 52.8% on 17.3 PPG.
Shaq is technically 29.0 when you round off. 753 in 26 games = 28.96

Kobe 937 in 37 games(*injured for 1 of those games) = 25.32

Didn't check the other ones but it looks legit. Good job!

[ArbitraryWater]

Kobe with the most attempts and worst conversion rate :ohwell:

interesting stats

[sportjames23]

How much more would Lebron have if he didn't have those 4th quarter meltdowns against Dallas?

[ArbitraryWater]

How much more would Lebron have if he didn't have those 4th quarter meltdowns against Dallas?

I guess about 20?

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Shaq is technically 29.0 when you round off. 753 in 26 games = 28.96

Kobe 937 in 37 games(*injured for 1 of those games) = 25.32

Didn't check the other ones but it looks legit. Good job!

Shaq must have been a brain fart, my bad. I think I was pretty careful on rounding with the others though.

[Wade's Rings]

Here are the top-10 with FG%/PPG, rankings among their peers in brackets. I used basketball-reference to get the totals but didn't see PPG listed so I did it myself (if there's an error it's on me but they should all be correct).

1) Kobe Bryant - 937 - 41.2% (10) - 25.3 PPG (2)

2) Shaquille O'Neal - 753 - 60.3% (1) - 28.9 PPG (1)

3) Dwyane Wade - 693 - 47.6% (2) - 23.9 PPG (4)

4) LeBron James - 656 - 46.3% (4) - 24.3 PPG (3)

5) Tim Duncan - 571 - 47.4% (3) - 19.7 PPG (5)

6) Tony Parker - 479 - 45.6% (6) - 16.5 PPG (6)

7) Manu Ginobli - 407 - 43.8% (8) - 14 PPG (8)

8) Derek Fisher - 376 - 42.9% (9) - 8.7 PPG (10)

9) Ray Allen - 347 - 44.8% (7) - 13.9 PPG (9)

10) Chris Bosh - 337 - 45.9% (5) - 14.7 PPG (7)

Pau Gasol ended up 11th on total finals points since 2000, he posted the second highest FG% at 52.8% on 17.3 PPG.

:applause:

[ImKobe]

Kobe the GOAT.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Kobe the GOAT.

Interesting conclusion.

[pauk]

Damn, Derek Fisher?

[HOoopCityJones]

Kobeeee

[Wade's Rings]

Damn, Derek Fisher?

Even though he's a Role Player he's been in the 2000-2002, 2004, 2008-2010, and 2012 Finals.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Derek Fisher in his prime was a GOAT-tier role player.

Anyone remember his 2001 playoff run? Dude was hitting like 50% of his 3's or something ridiculous like that. All in crunchtime too. Him and Big Shot Rob were scary AF late in games.

[HOoopCityJones]

Derek Fisher in his prime was a GOAT-tier role player.

Anyone remember his 2001 playoff run? Dude was hitting like 50% of his 3's or something ridiculous like that. All in crunchtime too. Him and Big Shot Rob were scary AF late in games.

Still can't believe we were starting GP over him in 04 when he was definitely the better point guard for the triangle. Fish was just flatout ballin that year. 0.4.

[Papaya Petee]

Interesting, with both playing in 5 NBA Finals Wade has about 40 more points than Lebron On higher percentages. Even though his averages and total got ruined by playing on broken knees last year....

AND he has 1 more ring? Im sensing a pattern here...

[FKAri]

Damn. Kobe stunk it up. Wade doe :applause:

[Wade's Rings]

Interesting, with both playing in 5 NBA Finals Wade has about 40 more points than Lebron On higher percentages. Even though his averages and total got ruined by playing on broken knees last year....

AND he has 1 more ring? Im sensing a pattern here...

D-GOAT :bowdown:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

D-GOAT :bowdown:

Judging by the numbers I added, Wade is behind only in Shaq in finals performance since 2000. Respect to the clear leader from the back court :applause:

[Wade's Rings]

Judging by the numbers I added, Wade is behind only in Shaq in finals performance since 2000. Respect to the clear leader from the back court :applause:

:rockon: :cheers:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Judging by the numbers I added, Wade is behind only in Shaq in finals performance since 2000. Respect to the clear leader from the back court :applause:


If given the chance Wade stated that he would refuse to trade places with Kobe Bryant, calmly stating "FG% is more important than rings and FMVPs"

..

[SCdac]

"Since 2000" is a convenient way to leave out Tim Duncan's first appearance in the Finals (averaging 27 ppg / .54 FG% / .80 FT% ).

[TheMarkMadsen]

"Since 2000" is a convenient way to leave out Tim Duncan's first appearance in the Finals (averaging 27 ppg / .54 FG% / .80 FT% ).

also convenient of you to miss the 4th post in the thread which address that and shows Duncans totals if 99* was included

[24-Inch_Chrome]

"Since 2000" is a convenient way to leave out Tim Duncan's first appearance in the Finals (averaging 27 ppg / .54 FG% / .80 FT% ).

The thread is obviously agenda driven, part of that was limiting the sample size to 'since 2000' and the other was ignoring PPG/FGA/FG% in favor of simple totals. Given that context, in terms of volume it makes sense considering Kobe's 7 finals appearances since 2000; he should be leading in raw point totals. Doesn't mean that he's been the best finals performer since 2000, just that he's been there the most times as a volume shooter.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kobe with the most attempts and worst conversion rate :ohwell:

interesting stats

no, that would actually be Dirk

[supernova5912]

Can you include Shot attempts?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

I'm a bit confused here... in this stretch Kobe played 7 finals, literally twice as many as Shaq did... and he scored a measly 180 more points?

What are you talking about? Shaq played in 5 finals in the 2000s. I'm guessing you need to go back to kindergarten math because "literally twice as many" would be 10 finals. What a complete idiot. :oldlol:

[TheMarkMadsen]

The thread is obviously agenda driven, part of that was limiting the sample size to 'since 2000' and the other was ignoring PPG/FGA/FG% in favor of simple totals. Given that context, in terms of volume it makes sense considering Kobe's 7 finals appearances since 2000; he should be leading in raw point totals. Doesn't mean that he's been the best finals performer since 2000, just that he's been there the most times as a volume shooter.

Kobe has made 6 of his 7 finals while being the leading shot taker on his team, just goes to show how great he is that he was given the burden of being the top field goal taker on 6 finals teams

[Droid101]

in this stretch Kobe played 7 finals, literally twice as many as Shaq did...
3.5 Finals.

Math is hard I know.

[TheMarkMadsen]

What are you talking about? Shaq played in 5 finals in the 2000s. I'm guessing you need to go back to kindergarten math because "literally twice as many" would be 10 finals. What a complete idiot. :oldlol:

:roll: :roll:

[dubeta]

Kobe shot 40% in his finals, therefore any scoring record(s) are officially void

[ImKobe]

The thread is obviously agenda driven, part of that was limiting the sample size to 'since 2000' and the other was ignoring PPG/FGA/FG% in favor of simple totals. Given that context, in terms of volume it makes sense considering Kobe's 7 finals appearances since 2000; he should be leading in raw point totals. Doesn't mean that he's been the best finals performer since 2000, just that he's been there the most times as a volume shooter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zv9ltK1Nzs

watch this

PM me when you are ready to pledge your allegiance.

[Mr Feeny]

Kobe has made 6 of his 7 finals while being the leading shot taker on his team, just goes to show how great he is that he was given the burden of being the top field goal taker on 6 finals teams

Such a huge burden having a 40 point 20 rebound machine playing next to him:(

Kobe and his 15 ppg on 36%fg were the reason they won in 2000.
Kobe:(

[RoundMoundOfReb]

What are you talking about? Shaq played in 5 finals in the 2000s. I'm guessing you need to go back to kindergarten math because "literally twice as many" would be 10 finals. What a complete idiot. :oldlol:

1st off shaq played in 4 since then. actually since the stat says "since" 2000 it's a bit confusing as to whether or not the 2000 finals is being included. Which would make it 6 for Kobe and 3 for Shaq...."literally twice as many"

[VengefulAngel]

I'm actually really surprised about how high Lebron's PPG in the finals given the fact that he was abysmal in 2007 and 2011.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Such a huge burden having a 40 point 20 rebound machine playing next to him:(

Kobe and his 15 ppg on 36%fg were the reason they won in 2000.
Kobe:(

read what you quoted, then try again.

Kobe has made 6 finals while being the top shot taker for his team, nothing you posted counters my claim

:roll: :roll:

[Mr Feeny]

I'm actually really surprised about how high Lebron's PPG in the finals given the fact that he was abysmal in 2007 and 2011.

Yup. But he was tremendous in the 2012 ND 2014 finals do that helps raise his overall scoring average and shooting percentage, mind you.

[supernova5912]

1st off shaq played in 4 since then. actually since the stat says "since" 2000 it's a bit confusing as to whether or not the 2000 finals is being included. Which would make it 6 for Kobe and 3 for Shaq...."literally twice as many"

Even if you don't count 2000 by arguing semantics, Shaq has been to the Finals in 2001, 2002, 2004, and 2006. Learn how to count, buddy.

[Lebron23]

Kobe should be shooting higher than 41% from the field because he played with Prime Shaq and Prime Gasol + Good front court.

[TheMarkMadsen]

1st off shaq played in 4 since then. actually since the stat says "since" 2000 it's a bit confusing as to whether or not the 2000 finals is being included. Which would make it 6 for Kobe and 3 for Shaq...."literally twice as many"

even if 2000 isn't being counted (which it is) Shaq still made the finals in 01,02,04 and 06. Which is 4 not 3..

6 is not "literally twice as many" as 4

ITT Lebrons stans learn how to count

:roll: :roll:

[Mr Feeny]

read what you quoted, then try again.

Kobe has made 6 finals while being the top shot taker for his team, nothing you posted counters my claim

:roll: :roll:

And this is impressive because?

[24-Inch_Chrome]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zv9ltK1Nzs

watch this

PM me when you are ready to pledge your allegiance.

I'm no fan of Kobe but I'll definitely acknowledge that he's amazing to watch when he gets going. Just because I don't like all of the aspects of his game doesn't mean I don't respect him, he's an all-time great player.

[TheMarkMadsen]

And this is impressive because?

how many other players have made 6 finals and won 5 rings as the leading shot taker on their team?

[24-Inch_Chrome]

1st off shaq played in 4 since then. actually since the stat says "since" 2000 it's a bit confusing as to whether or not the 2000 finals is being included. Which would make it 6 for Kobe and 3 for Shaq...."literally twice as many"

The 2000 finals counts because that's the year that it happened in. The season may technically be the 1999-2000 season but it's the 2000 finals. It's not an uncommon mistake to make.

[Mr Feeny]

how many other players have made 6 finals and won 5 rings as the leading shot taker on their team?

What does that have to do with anything?
Make a coherent argument.

[TheMarkMadsen]

What does that have to do with anything?
Make a coherent argument.

I see you took the L

[Mr Feeny]

I see you took the L

What drug are you on, exactly?

[SwayDizzle]

At this point, it's established that Kobe is a tier above Shaq and leBJ

[ImKobe]

At this point, it's established that Kobe is a tier above Shaq and leBJ

Agreed. :applause:

[SexSymbol]

Kobe played against some of the best defenses ever. 41 percent is very good given the circumstances and defense

[G0ATbe]

GOAT gonna GOAT:applause: .

[ArbitraryWater]

Kobe got locked the **** down through single coverage from Rip and Tayshaun Prince.. 41% and good my ass.

Take this bullshit elsewhere, stans.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

If you're being outscored per game, why does it matter if you're taking the most shots? Shaq was a better scorer than Kobe from 2000-2002, making that argument null and void.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Kobe got locked the **** down through single coverage from Rip and Tayshaun Prince.. 41% and good my ass.

Take this bullshit elsewhere, stans.
http://i.imgur.com/Rrxs7vq.gif

[24-Inch_Chrome]

At this point, it's established that Kobe is a tier above Shaq and leBJ

A tier above Shaq? :roll:

[VengefulAngel]

Kobe played against some of the best defenses ever. 41 percent is very good given the circumstances and defense

I wonder what you think a bad FG% is, if you think 41% is good.


:lol :lol :lol

[JT123]

Interesting, with both playing in 5 NBA Finals Wade has about 40 more points than Lebron On higher percentages. Even though his averages and total got ruined by playing on broken knees last year....

AND he has 1 more ring? Im sensing a pattern here...
How many of those points came via the free thrown line? :durantunimpressed:

[JT123]

Kobe played against some of the best defenses ever. 41 percent is very good given the circumstances and defense
http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mj-laughing.gif

[J Shuttlesworth]

Gotta love how the Kobe stans always talk shit about how bad the competition is in the East, and then go onto brag about shooting 41% against them

[TheMarkMadsen]

Gotta love how the Kobe stans always talk shit about how bad the competition is in the East, and then go onto brag about shooting 41% against them

04 Pistons, 08 Celtics and 2010 Celtics didn't play in the east from 2011-2015 now did they?

the huge gap between the competition in the east vs the west mainly began when the HEAT combined 3 playoff teams into one beginning with the 2011 season.

the difference in skill/talent/competition has really been noticeable since then. But keep reaching and acting like the 2002 Nets have anything to do with the shitty 2011-2015 east

[JT123]

Gotta love how the Kobe stans always talk shit about how bad the competition is in the East, and then go onto brag about shooting 41% against them
:lol They aren't the most intelligent bunch.

[TheMarkMadsen]

:lol They aren't the most intelligent bunch.

lebron family be like "i swear 2+2 be like 5"




I'm a bit confused here... in this stretch Kobe played 7 finals, literally twice as many as Shaq did... and he scored a measly 180 more points?


1st off shaq played in 4 since then. actually since the stat says "since" 2000 it's a bit confusing as to whether or not the 2000 finals is being included. Which would make it 6 for Kobe and 3 for Shaq...."literally twice as many"

:roll: :roll:

[J Shuttlesworth]

04 Pistons, 08 Celtics and 2010 Celtics didn't play in the east from 2011-2015 now did they?

the huge gap between the competition in the east vs the west mainly began when the HEAT combined 3 playoff teams into one beginning with the 2011 season.

the difference in skill/talent/competition has really been noticeable since then. But keep reaching and acting like the 2002 Nets have anything to do with the shitty 2011-2015 east
Actually I remember someone bumping some 09-10 threads where Laker fans were calling the West that year the most stacked of all time, and talking about how unfair it was that the east sucked.

[ArbitraryWater]

04 Pistons, 08 Celtics and 2010 Celtics didn't play in the east from 2011-2015 now did they?

the huge gap between the competition in the east vs the west mainly began when the HEAT combined 3 playoff teams into one beginning with the 2011 season.

the difference in skill/talent/competition has really been noticeable since then. But keep reaching and acting like the 2002 Nets have anything to do with the shitty 2011-2015 east

:roll: :roll:

The Raptors weren't even a playoff team... and the Heat were first round fodder.

The East in 2011 beats the 2010 East.

And I told myself to stay out of threads containing ImKobe, MarkMadsen and SexSymbol.. my mistake, I'm sorry.

[SexSymbol]

I wonder what you think a bad FG% is, if you think 41% is good.


:lol :lol :lol
Every single one of the teams that Kobe played against in the finals were great defensively.
08 and 10 celtics were incredibly good defensively, 10' celtics were a top 5 defensive team ever
04 pistons obviously the best team ever defensively.
Pacers, 76ers, Nets, Magic were all great defensively

[GrapeApe]

How many of those points came via the free thrown line? :durantunimpressed:

Yeah, free throws don't actually count as points. I mean they're "free" afterall right? In fact, we should retroactively remove free throws from every game in history and adjust the outcomes accordingly.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Actually I remember someone bumping some 09-10 threads where Laker fans were calling the West that year the most stacked of all time, and talking about how unfair it was that the east sucked.

so some people who prolly don't even post here anymore from 6 years ago said something in a thread and that's enough for you to claim "Kobe stans always talk shit about the east"

again, the east that everybody, not just Kobe fans have talked shit on for the past 5 years isn't the same as the eastern conference from 00-10


And the East in 2010 actually had four 50 wins teams, and no below .500 team in the playoffs, so whoever said the east sucked that year probably wasn't thinking at the time

I don't know why you're trying to act like the only people talking about how bad the east is are Kobe fans, everybody acknowledges how poor the east is.

[tpols]

:roll: :roll:

The Raptors weren't even a playoff team... and the Heat were first round fodder.

The East in 2011 beats the 2010 East.

And I told myself to stay out of threads containing ImKobe, MarkMadsen and SexSymbol.. my mistake, I'm sorry.

No it doesnt.. the east factually won more games against the West in 2010 than it did in 2011. 2010 featured the last year's of the big 3s primes and had higher peak playoff competition.

Buuut alas you would not know this...

[Smoke117]

Comforting to know all is right in the universe. That this thread has degraded into the kobe morons vs the lebron idiots...sounds about right for ish.

[TheMarkMadsen]

:roll: :roll:

The Raptors weren't even a playoff team... and the Heat were first round fodder.

The East in 2011 beats the 2010 East.

And I told myself to stay out of threads containing ImKobe, MarkMadsen and SexSymbol.. my mistake, I'm sorry.


yeah I'm not surprised you told yourself to stay out of this thread after receiving these ethers

..




I'm a bit confused here... in this stretch Kobe played 7 finals, literally twice as many as Shaq did... and he scored a measly 180 more points?


What are you talking about? Shaq played in 5 finals in the 2000s. I'm guessing you need to go back to kindergarten math because "literally twice as many" would be 10 finals. What a complete idiot. :oldlol:

...


Kobe with the worst conversion rate :ohwell:

interesting stats


no, that would actually be Dirk


I know you like to screen shot post on ISH, so go ahead and take out your camera **** boy

:roll: :roll:

[JT123]

Every single one of the teams that Kobe played against in the finals were great defensively.
08 and 10 celtics were incredibly good defensively, 10' celtics were a top 5 defensive team ever
04 pistons obviously the best team ever defensively.
Pacers, 76ers, Nets, Magic were all great defensively
So boiled down Kobe can't be efficient against good defensive teams, only mediocre defensive teams like the Suns. At least you can admit it. :applause:

[TheMarkMadsen]

So boiled down Kobe can't be efficient against good defensive teams, only mediocre defensive teams like the Suns. At least you can admit it. :applause:

The 2010 Suns were a top defensive team in the league post all star break

[J Shuttlesworth]

so some people who prolly don't even post here anymore from 6 years ago said something in a thread and that's enough for you to claim "Kobe stans always talk shit about the east"

again, the east that everybody, not just Kobe fans have talked shit on for the past 5 years isn't the same as the eastern conference from 00-10


And the East in 2010 actually had four 50 wins teams, and no below .500 team in the playoffs, so whoever said the east sucked that year probably wasn't thinking at the time

I don't know why you're trying to act like the only people talking about how bad the east is are Kobe fans, everybody acknowledges how poor the east is.
Regardless, 41% is low for someone who is supposed to be compared to MJ, even if it's against elite defenses

LeBron against the top defenses in the playoffs:
2011:
26/8/6 on 45% vs. Bulls #1 defense
28/8/3 on 47% vs. Celtics #1 defense

2012:
33/11/4 52% vs. Celtics #1 defense

2013:
29/7/5 51% vs. Pacers #1 defense
25/11/7 44.7% vs. Spurs #3 defense

2014:
23/6/5 on 56% vs. Pacers #1 defense
28/8/4 57% vs. Spurs #3 defense

And everyone knows he put up 38/8/8 against Orlando who was the best defense in 2009.

41% is setting the bar pretty low. It doesn't mean Kobe was a bad player or anthing, just that his efficiency wasn't impressive. It's really not terrible, but saying 41% is impressive against a top defense is simply a stretch.

[sportjames23]

I see you took the L


Consider this line stolen, bruh.

[ArbitraryWater]

Are you trying to get embarrassed?

Dirk wasn't even mentioned, he's played 12 damn games, sample size, idiot.

[JT123]

Yeah, free throws don't actually count as points. I mean they're "free" afterall right? In fact, we should retroactively remove free throws from every game in history and adjust the outcomes accordingly.
Considering the majority of Wade's free throws came in a series in which the officiating was considered extremely controversial/rigged, it's not exactly something we can just sweep under the rug when comparing him to other players. :confusedshrug:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

pic fail on my part earlier in this thread. Forgot about 04 when listing Shaq finals :facepalm:

[JT123]

Regardless, 41% is low for someone who is supposed to be compared to MJ, even if it's against elite defenses

LeBron against the top defenses in the playoffs:
2011:
26/8/6 on 45% vs. Bulls #1 defense
28/8/3 on 47% vs. Celtics #1 defense

2012:
33/11/4 52% vs. Celtics #1 defense

2013:
29/7/5 51% vs. Pacers #1 defense
25/11/7 44.7% vs. Spurs #1 defense

2014:
23/6/5 on 56% vs. Pacers #1 defense
28/8/4 57% vs. Spurs #3 defense

And everyone knows he put up 38/8/8 against Orlando who was the best defense in 2009.

41% is setting the bar pretty low. It doesn't mean Kobe was a bad player or anthing, just that his efficiency wasn't impressive. It's really not terrible, but saying 41% is impressive against a top defense is simply a stretch.
rat poison

[HOoopCityJones]

yeah I'm not surprised you told yourself to stay out of this thread after receiving these ethers

..





...






I know you like to screen shot post on ISH, so go ahead and take out your camera **** boy

:roll: :roll:


http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/lol/grand/freak_lol_gif.gif

[TheMarkMadsen]

Regardless, 41% is low for someone who is supposed to be compared to MJ, even if it's against elite defenses

LeBron against the top defenses in the playoffs:
2011:
26/8/6 on 45% vs. Bulls #1 defense
28/8/3 on 47% vs. Celtics #1 defense

2012:
33/11/4 52% vs. Celtics #1 defense

2013:
29/7/5 51% vs. Pacers #1 defense
25/11/7 44.7% vs. Spurs #3 defense

2014:
23/6/5 on 56% vs. Pacers #1 defense
28/8/4 57% vs. Spurs #3 defense

And everyone knows he put up 38/8/8 against Orlando who was the best defense in 2009.

41% is setting the bar pretty low. It doesn't mean Kobe was a bad player or anthing, just that his efficiency wasn't impressive. It's really not terrible, but saying 41% is impressive against a top defense is simply a stretch.


What's the point of this post? Are you trying to pretend like Kobe doesn't get it done against top ranked defenses?

Those series from Lebron are suppose to be on some MJ type of level..? The bolded aren't anything that just jumps off the page.. 23 point ECF? LOL cool?


2001

33/7/7 on 51% against the #1 ranked defense

2002

26/5/5 on 46% against the # 2 ranked defense

27/6/5 on 51% against the # 1 ranked defense

2004

26/6/6 on 46% against the # 1 ranked defense


2008

29/6/4 on 53% against the # 3 ranked defense

2009

32/6/7 on 43% against the # 1 ranked defense


I mean you posted a series of 23 ppg, pretty low standards.. Not sure why you're even bringing up ECF and 2nd round series, but typical of a lebron stan to try and change the conversation

Kobe in 09 had to go through almost as many 50 win teams as Lebron has for his entire career.

The level of competition Kobe was facing in the 2nd rounds of 01, 02, 08, 09, 10 are on par with the level of competition Lebron was routinely facing in the ECF

[dubeta]

MarkMadsen getting ethered :oldlol:

[Hey Yo]

What's the point of this post? Are you trying to pretend like Kobe doesn't get it done against top ranked defenses?

Those series from Lebron are suppose to be on some MJ type of level..? The bolded aren't anything that just jumps off the page.. 23 point ECF? LOL cool?


2001

33/7/7 on 51% against the #1 ranked defense

2002

26/5/5 on 46% against the # 2 ranked defense

27/6/5 on 51% against the # 1 ranked defense

2004

26/6/6 on 46% against the # 1 ranked defense


2008

29/6/4 on 53% against the # 3 ranked defense

2009

32/6/7 on 43% against the # 1 ranked defense


I mean you posted a series of 23 ppg, pretty low standards.. Not sure why you're even bringing up ECF and 2nd round series, but typical of a lebron stan to try and change the conversation

Kobe in 09 had to go through almost as many 50 win teams as Lebron has for his entire career.

The level of competition Kobe was facing in the 2nd rounds of 01, 02, 08, 09, 10 are on par with the level of competition Lebron was routinely facing in the ECF
If you're gonna compare the 2 then make sure it's when they were both 1st options.

2001, 02, and 04 Shaq was 1st option and getting all the defensive attention.

[HOoopCityJones]

What's the point of this post? Are you trying to pretend like Kobe doesn't get it done against top ranked defenses?

Those series from Lebron are suppose to be on some MJ type of level..? The bolded aren't anything that just jumps off the page.. 23 point ECF? LOL cool?


2001

33/7/7 on 51% against the #1 ranked defense

2002

26/5/5 on 46% against the # 2 ranked defense

27/6/5 on 51% against the # 1 ranked defense

2004

26/6/6 on 46% against the # 1 ranked defense


2008

29/6/4 on 53% against the # 3 ranked defense

2009

32/6/7 on 43% against the # 1 ranked defense


I mean you posted a series of 23 ppg, pretty low standards.. Not sure why you're even bringing up ECF and 2nd round series, but typical of a lebron stan to try and change the conversation

Kobe in 09 had to go through almost as many 50 win teams as Lebron has for his entire career.

The level of competition Kobe was facing in the 2nd rounds of 01, 02, 08, 09, 10 are on par with the level of competition Lebron was routinely facing in the ECF


Where's the rebuttals? :confusedshrug:

[TheMarkMadsen]

If you're gonna compare the 2 then make sure it's when they were both 1st options.

2001, 02, and 04 Shaq was 1st option and getting all the defensive attention.

if you're going to take away entire years where Kobe was leading his team in FGA per game, then I don't have time for you

[J Shuttlesworth]

What's the point of this post? Are you trying to pretend like Kobe doesn't get it done against top ranked defenses?

Those series from Lebron are suppose to be on some MJ type of level..? The bolded aren't anything that just jumps off the page.. 23 point ECF? LOL cool?


2001

33/7/7 on 51% against the #1 ranked defense

2002

26/5/5 on 46% against the # 2 ranked defense

27/6/5 on 51% against the # 1 ranked defense

2004

26/6/6 on 46% against the # 1 ranked defense


2008

29/6/4 on 53% against the # 3 ranked defense

2009

32/6/7 on 43% against the # 1 ranked defense


I mean you posted a series of 23 ppg, pretty low standards.. Not sure why you're even bringing up ECF and 2nd round series, but typical of a lebron stan to try and change the conversation

Kobe in 09 had to go through almost as many 50 win teams as Lebron has for his entire career.

The level of competition Kobe was facing in the 2nd rounds of 01, 02, 08, 09, 10 are on par with the level of competition Lebron was routinely facing in the ECF
The point of the post was to show that 41% against a good defense isn't brag worthy, like someone else was saying in here

[Hey Yo]

if you're going to take away entire years where Kobe was leading his team in FGA per game, then I don't have time for you
If you're gonna ignore the shots that Shaq was purposely hacked on and were never registered cause they don't count then you should make sure you don't have time for me and the truth.

[HOoopCityJones]

If you're gonna ignore the shots that Shaq was purposely hacked on and were never registered cause they don't count then you should make sure you don't have time for me and the truth.

You sound like a straight up bitch my ni99a. Who calculates shit like that? :roll:

[JT123]

You sound like a straight up bitch my ni99a. Who calculates shit like that? :roll:
People who like to use context in their arguments. :confusedshrug:
Wouldn't expect a Kobetard to understand that.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

if you're going to take away entire years where Kobe was leading his team in FGA per game, then I don't have time for you
Once again, this is irrelevant when Shaq was a better scorer from 2000-2002. More PPG; better efficiency.

When we combine that with Shaq being the other teams primary focus, what else is there to say? :confusedshrug:

[HOoopCityJones]

People who like to use context in their arguments. :confusedshrug:
Wouldn't expect a Kobetard to understand that.

Like how many times a guy was fouled plays into how well Kobe ballsout? Bran fa9 logic. :applause:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Once again, this is irrelevant when Shaq was a better scorer from 2000-2002. More PPG; better efficiency.

When we combine that with Shaq being the other teams primary focus, what else is there to say? :confusedshrug:

how is it irrelevant when using it as a reason to not just brush aside those runs as "they don't count"

which is literally what the poster I was responding to was trying to do?

[dazzer87]

how many other players have made 6 finals and won 5 rings as the leading shot taker on their team?
Yeah thats something to be proud of......Kobe stan......:roll:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

how is it irrelevant when using it as a reason to not just brush aside those runs as "they don't count"

which is literally what the poster I was responding to was trying to do?
Only trolls say they don't count. You already knew that though.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Only trolls say they don't count. You already knew that though.

so then what are you even responding to this for?

he made a troll statement, i responded with a facts that countered his statement..

don't see where your input was needed?

[TheMarkMadsen]

Yeah thats something to be proud of......Kobe stan......:roll:

uh yeah being the guy who is good enough to be the leading shot taker on 6 finals teams (4 championship teams) is something to be extremely proud of

how is it not?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

so then what are you even responding to this for?

he made a troll statement, i countered with a facts that countered his statement..

don't see where your input was needed?
Kobe had runs of 29/6/5. with Shaq. That is something to be lauded.

Your FGA attempt nonsense isn't something to be proud of. It's not even a legit argument when Phil constantly wanted Kobe to stop shooting. :oldlol:

[dubeta]

Kobe stans getting straight bodied in their OWN thread :roll:

Shits not even fair anymore, LeBron Family takin over

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kobe had runs of 29/6/7. That is something to be lauded.

Your FGA attempt nonsense isn't something to be proud of. It's not even a legit argument when Phil constantly wanted Kobe to stop shooting.

29/6/7.. you had it right the first time..


how is being the guy who is good enough to lead 6 finals teams in FGA and 4 championship teams in FGA not something to be proud of?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

how is being the guy who is good enough to lead 6 finals teams in FGA and 4 championship teams in FGA not something to be proud of?
Because of what I said in the next sentence. Phil never asked Shaq to stop shooting.

:confusedshrug:

[DonDadda59]

Kobe has made 6 of his 7 finals while being the leading shot taker on his team, just goes to show how great he is that he was given the burden of being the top field goal taker on 6 finals teams

Hack-a-Shaq really skewed that one.

[dubeta]

'Leading shot taker' as an argument to prop someone up :oldlol:


I've heard everything now :roll:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Because of what I said in the next sentence. Phil never asked Shaq to stop shooting.

:confusedshrug:

So Kobe leading 6 finals teams and 4 championship teams in FGA isn't impressive because of something Phil Jackson said while trying to sell his books?

hater please..

[AnaheimLakers24]

Kobe with the most attempts and worst conversion rate :ohwell:

interesting stats
Even more interesting is, he has the most rings

rat poison

[Hey Yo]

Only trolls say they don't count. You already knew that though.
MM was using years where "prime Shaq" was the primary offensive focus and opponents defensive focus. Considering the situation , a shooting guard of Kobe's talent "should" lead his team in FGA even though he was not the 1st option.

I suggested taking hack-a-shaq into consideration because that's a lot of FGA, by rule, that were never registered.

Why use those years for Kobe? He wasn't first option nor did command 1st option defense.

It was just the opposite with LeBron as 1st option.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

So Kobe leading 6 finals teams and 4 championship teams in FGA isn't impressive because of something Phil Jackson said while trying to sell his books?

hater please..
Kobe's overall numbers are impressive; him leading the Lakers in FGA alongside peak Shaq is not, hence Phil asking him to stop shooting the air outta the ball.

Not sure why this is a difficult concept for you to understand? :confusedshrug:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Hack-a-Shaq really skewed that one.

which became big in the 4th

and seeing as Shaq was a 50% FT shooter in the playoffs from 2000-2004 it's a good thing Kobe was there to lead the league in 4th quarter playoff scoring in 01, 02 and 03

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

MM was using years where "prime Shaq" was the primary offensive focus and opponents defensive focus. Considering the situation , a shooting guard of Kobe's talent "should" lead his team in FGA even though he was not the 1st option.

I suggested taking hack-a-shaq into consideration because that's a lot of FGA, by rule, that were never registered.

Why use those years for Kobe? He wasn't first option nor did command 1st option defense.

It was just the opposite with LeBron as 1st option.
You're correct. Madsen is using what we call "straw man". A lame, but typical attempt to hype his hero. Basically a zealot gon' zealot. Heh

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kobe's overall numbers are impressive; him leading the Lakers in FGA alongside peak Shaq is not, hence Phil asking him to stop shooting the air outta the ball.

Not sure why this is a difficult concept for you to understand? :confusedshrug:

What's your argument with this?

Kobe led the team in FGA per game for b2b championship runs, regardless of what you claim or what you claim PJ said, Kobe leading the team in FGA worked and they won b2b titles..


and nothing you type is going to change that

[DonDadda59]

which became big in the 4th

and seeing as Shaq was a 50% FT shooter in the playoffs from 2000-2004 it's a good thing Kobe was there to lead the league in 4th quarter playoff scoring in 01, 02 and 03

Grade A sidekick shit right there :applause:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

What's your argument with this?

Kobe led the team in FGA per game for b2b championship runs, regardless of what you claim or what you claim PJ said, Kobe leading the team in FGA worked and they won b2b titles..


and nothing you type is going to change that

It's not about what I "claim", its what Phil actually said.

Kobe leading the team in FGA doesn't mean anything when Shaq was the better scorer (more PPG / better efficiency).

Ouch...

[Hey Yo]

which became big in the 4th

and seeing as Shaq was a 50% FT shooter in the playoffs from 2000-2004 it's a good thing Kobe was there to lead the league in 4th quarter playoff scoring in 01, 02 and 03
Your thread specifies "Finals"... not.... "in the playoffs."

I'd say hack-a-shaq happened before the 4th quarter "in the Finals"

[TheMarkMadsen]

MM was using years where "prime Shaq" was the primary offensive focus and opponents defensive focus. Considering the situation , a shooting guard of Kobe's talent "should" lead his team in FGA even though he was not the 1st option.

I suggested taking hack-a-shaq into consideration because that's a lot of FGA, by rule, that were never registered.

Why use those years for Kobe? He wasn't first option nor did command 1st option defense.

It was just the opposite with LeBron as 1st option.

I posted 4 series where Kobe played with Shaq

2 of those series Kobe was the clear cut number one option for.

Not sure why you have such a problem with that, go ahead and take out the two where he wasn't the "first option".. still very impressive

but while you're at it don't forget to discredit Magic at every opportunity for every series where he wasn't the go to guy

[TheMarkMadsen]

It's not about what I "claim", its what Phil actually said.

Kobe leading the team in FGA doesn't mean anything when Shaq was the better scorer (more PPG / better efficiency).

Ouch...

When did I say Kobe was the better scorer or more efficient?

my only claim was that he led the team in FGA, and having the burden of being the leading shot taker on championship teams is impressive.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Your thread specifies "Finals"... not.... "in the playoffs."

I'd say hack-a-shaq happened before the 4th quarter "in the Finals"

dude, i know what my thread says

it was idiots like you and the other bran stans who started bringing up other shit, beginning when Shuttlesworth began posting 2nd round stats :facepalm :facepalm

and you do realize that being the leading scorer for the 4th quarters of the playoffs includes the finals series as well right?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

When did I say Kobe was the better scorer or more efficient?

my only claim was that he led the team in FGA, and having the burden of being the leading shot taker on championship teams is impressive.
But it's not really a burden when your headcoach asks you to stop chucking. Trust me, the Lakers weren't any better when rebounding Kobe's bricks.

[TheMarkMadsen]

But it's not really a burden when your headcoach asks you to stop chucking. Trust me, the Lakers weren't any better when rebounding Kobe's bricks.

:facepalm :facepalm

if Kobe was hurting the team, PJ wouldn't have allowed him to lead the team in FGA for b2b championship runs.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:facepalm :facepalm

if Kobe was hurting the team, PJ wouldn't have allowed him to lead the team in FGA for b2b championship runs.
It wasn't neccesary, which is why Phil, argaubly the greatest coach of all time, promptly asked Kobe to quit hogging the rock.

I actually watched basketball those years, so it's still fresh in the mind. :pimp:

[Hey Yo]

dude, i know what my thread says

it was idiots like you and the other bran stans who started bringing up other shit, beginning when Shuttlesworth began posting 2nd round stats :facepalm :facepalm

and you do realize that being the leading scorer for the 4th quarters of the playoffs includes the finals series as well right?
I stayed on course with my responses. All of mine were referring to the Finals "like the thread states"

You do realize that there's a difference between "playoffs"....and..."Finals", right? From the looks of it, I wasted my time asking.

[DonDadda59]

When did I say Kobe was the better scorer or more efficient?

my only claim was that he led the team in FGA, and having the burden of being the leading shot taker on championship teams is impressive.

And several people have brought up the fact that stat is skewed by the hack-a-shaq strategy teams were employing back then. Shaq was the first option and primary focal point defensively for opposing squads.

[TheMarkMadsen]

2002 NBA playoffs 4th quarter

Kobe Bryant - 8ppg on 49%


Shaq - 6ppg on 38%


Kobe attempted more shots per 4th quarter because he was killing it in the clutch, he was the go to guy in the 4th quarters for 01 & 02.

FGA per 4th quarter for the 01 & 02 playoffs

in 02 Kobe took 6 shots per 4th quarter to Shaq's 4.

in 01 Kobe took 6 shots per 4th quarter to Shaq's 4.


Apparently PJ was giving the ball to Kobe during the 4th quarter more than Shaq, not paying heed to his own advice

:lol :rolleyes:


Kobe's extra 1-2 FGA per game over these 2 runs comes from the extra work load that he was given in the 4th.. not that hard to understand..

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

So pointing to 1 quarter in a 4 quarter game strengthens your argument...how exactly?

[TheMarkMadsen]

So pointing to 1 quarter in a 4 quarter game strengthens your argument...how exactly?

Oh Phil was just begging Kobe to stop shooting but for some reason Kobe was the clear cut go to guy in the 4th quarter for b2b playoff runs

if Phil wanted Kobe to stop shooting so badly, then you'd think he wouldn't make Kobe the go to guy during the 4th quarter of games..

[TheMarkMadsen]

I stayed on course with my responses. All of mine were referring to the Finals "like the thread states"

You do realize that there's a difference between "playoffs"....and..."Finals", right? From the looks of it, I wasted my time asking.

you're first post in this thread is responding a post of mine that is responding to a lebron stan who had suddenly brought up other rounds besides the finals :facepalm :facepalm

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Oh Phil was just begging Kobe to stop shooting but for some reason Kobe was the clear cut go to guy in the 4th quarter for b2b playoff runs
Are you saying Phil didn't ask Kobe to stop shooting? :confusedshrug:

1 quarter =/= 4 quarters

[Hey Yo]

you're first post in this thread is responding a post of mine that is responding to a lebron stan who had suddenly brought up other rounds besides the finals :facepalm :facepalm
My first post comparing Kobe and LeBron.


If you're gonna compare the 2 then make sure it's when they were both 1st options.

2001, 02, and 04 Shaq was 1st option and getting all the defensive attention.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Are you saying Phil didn't ask Kobe to stop shooting? :confusedshrug:

1 quarter =/= 4 quarters


I'm saying that your entire argument is dumb as ****, which it is

Kobe leads 6 finals team and 4 championship teams in FGA per game, leads the 01 and 02 championship teams in FGA per game & 4th quarter scoring, and yet none of this matters to you because of something PJ said something sometime?


Phil Jackson, the same guy who ripped Kobe apart when he was trying to sell a book, then turned around a year later and joined the Lakers citing Kobe Bryant as the only reason when it was time to sell another book?

:roll: :roll:

[TheMarkMadsen]

My first post comparing Kobe and LeBron.

and like i've already said, 2 out of the 4 series I posted where Kobe had Shaq on his team Kobe was the first option. My whole post was responding to that dude who was bringing up stats from other series which did not include finals series

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I'm saying that your entire argument is dumb as ****, which it is

Kobe leads 6 finals team and 4 championship teams in FGA per game, leads the 01 and 02 championship teams in FGA per game & 4th quarter scoring, and yet none of this matters to you because of something PJ said something sometime?


Phil Jackson, the same guy who ripped Kobe apart when he was trying to sell a book, then turned around a year later and joined the Lakers citing Kobe Bryant as the only reason when it was time to sell another book?

:roll: :roll:

Phil ripped Kobe for shooting too much before even contemplated writing the book. He and Shaq feuded with Kobe for the bulk of that 2001 season. Why? Shooting too much.

Not sure how Kobe taking more FGA than Shaq in one quarter means anything? That actually proves my point.

:hammerhead:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Phil ripped Kobe for shooting before even contemplated about writing the book. He and Shaq feuded with Kobe for the bulk of the 2001 season. Why? Shooting too much.

Not sure how Kobe taking more FGA than Shaq in one quarter means anything? That actually proves my point.

:hammerhead:

We are talking about the playoffs, funny that you would bring up 01, they really seemed to have some major beef in the 01 playoffs :rolleyes:



Not sure how Kobe taking more FGA than Shaq in one quarter means anything? That actually proves my point.

:hammerhead:

let me hold your hand through this using the 2002 playoffs as an example

Shaq and Kobe took the same amount of FGA in the 1st quarter (5.9 to 5.6)

Kobe took slightly more in the 2nd ( 5.5 to 4.8)

They were about the same in the 3rd (5.7 to 5.3)

However, in the 4th there was a concerted effort to get Kobe more shots

5.6 to 4.2, the biggest difference of any quarter.

Which shows, that A) Kobe was the go to guy through the 4th quarters which would explain why he took 1-2 more shots per game throughout the playoffs

and B) That PJ was perfectly fine with letting Kobe run the offense in the 4th, which completely obliterates your stance of "PJ wanted Kobe to shoot less" ..

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

We are talking about the playoffs, funny that you would bring up 01, they really seemed to have some major beef in the 01 playoffs :rolleyes:




let me hold your hand through this using the 2002 playoffs as an example

Shaq and Kobe took the same amount of FGA in the 1st quarter (5.9 to 5.6)

Kobe took slightly more in the 2nd ( 5.5 to 4.8)

They were about the same in the 3rd (5.7 to 5.3)

However, in the 4th there was a concerted effort to get Kobe more shots

And? Games aren't won in one quarter. I would be willing to bet many of those games were already decided prior and/or the beginning of said 4th quarters.

You are literally making my point for me. Thanks? :confusedshrug:

Honestly you should thank Phil for getting Kobe to not self-implode. Just saying.

[Odinn]

Shaquille O'Neal (30 NBA Finals Games)
4-2 series record // 27-13 game record
28.8 ppg | 13.1 rpg | 3.4 apg | 2.5 bpg | 0.5 spg | 3.4 tpg on .602 efg .489 ft
30.63 eff | 0.725 eff per min


Tim Duncan (34 NBA Finals Games)
5-1 series record // 23-11 game record
20.8 ppg | 13.3 rpg | 2.8 apg | 2.4 bpg | 0.8 spg | 2.8 tpg on .485 efg .716 ft
26.82 eff | 0.678 eff per min


LeBron James (27 NBA Finals Games)
2-3 series record // 11-16 game record
24.3 ppg | 8.8 rpg | 6.4 apg | 0.6 bpg | 1.8 spg | 3.8 tpg on .503 efg .761 ft
26.07 eff | 0.616 eff per min


Kobe Bryant (37 NBA Finals Games)
5-2 series record // 23-14 game record
25.3 ppg | 5.7 rpg | 5.1 apg | 0.9 bpg | 1.8 spg | 3.3 tpg on .442 efg .848 ft
21.49 eff | 0.503 eff per min


Dwyane Wade (29 NBA Finals Games)
3-2 series record // 15-14 game record
23.9 ppg | 5.7 rpg | 4.3 apg | 1.0 bpg | 1.8 spg | 2.9 tpg on .490 efg .748 ft
22.28 eff | 0.574 eff per min



For comparison;

Larry Bird (31 NBA Finals games)
3-2 series record // 16-15 game record
23.1 ppg | 11.6 rpg | 6.0 apg | 0.8 bpg | 2.0 spg | 2.9 tpg on .474 efg .872 ft
29.87 eff | 0.698 eff per min


Magic Johnson (50 NBA Finals games)
5-4 series record // 24-26 game record
19.4 ppg | 7.9 rpg | 11.7 apg | 0.3 bpg | 2.0 spg | 3.8 tpg on .523 efg .874 ft
30.40 eff | 0.744 eff per min


Michael Jordan (35 NBA Finals games)
6-0 series record // 24-11 game record
33.6 ppg | 6.0 rpg | 6.0 apg | 0.7 bpg | 1.8 spg | 2.8 tpg on .504 efg .806 ft
29.91 eff | 0.695 eff per min


---

It's interesting that Magic scored 971 points in the Finals which is more than Kobe.
Sure, solely numbers lack context.
Jordan and Shaq are on their own at the top when we talk about the goat Finals performers.
It should be too hard to accept for Kobe and LeBron stans... I mean both players certainly can't be recognized as one of the goat Finals performers.:oldlol: :oldlol: Especially while knowing what happened in 2004, 2007, 2008 and 2011.:roll:

[DatAsh]

:facepalm :facepalm

if Kobe was hurting the team, PJ wouldn't have allowed him to lead the team in FGA for b2b championship runs.

Let's be real.

There's no way Kobe was hurting his team. He was the second best player on the team, and one of the best players in the league. But, he wasn't helping them as much as he could have by taking less shots.

And Phil did try to stop him from shooting so much, but Kobe didn't listen.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Let's be real.

There's no way Kobe was hurting his team. He was the second best player on the team, and one of the best players in the league. But, he wasn't helping them as much as he could have by taking less shots.

And Phil did try to stop him from shooting so much, but Kobe didn't listen.

Well said. :applause:

Future repped.

[Optimus Prime]

1. Kobe Bryant - 937

2. Shaq - 753

3. Dwayne Wade - 693

4. Lebron James - 656

5. Tim Duncan - 571

6. Tony Parker - 479

7. Manu Ginobili - 407

8. Derek Fisher - 397

9. Ray Allen - 347

10. Chris Bosh - 337

interesting stats

1. Kobe 5/7

2. Shaq 4/5

3. Wade 3/5

4. LeBron 2/5

5. Duncan 5/6

6. Parker 4/5

7. Ginoboli 4/5

8. Fisher 5/7

9. Allen 2/4

10. Bosh 2/4

Just off the top of my head, I think those numbers are right. Notice the outlier?

:kobe:

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe has made 6 of his 7 finals while being the leading shot taker on his team, just goes to show how great he is that he was given the burden of being the top field goal taker on 6 finals teams

Russell and Magic made 12 and 9 Finals while never being the leading shot takers on their team, guess they weren't as great as Kobe

[dubeta]

1. Kobe 5/7

2. Shaq 4/5

3. Wade 3/5

4. LeBron 2/5

5. Duncan 5/6

6. Parker 4/5

7. Ginoboli 4/5

8. Fisher 5/7

9. Allen 2/4

10. Bosh 2/4

Just off the top of my head, I think those numbers are right. Notice the outlier?

:kobe:

6/6 Jordan

3/5 Magic

2/2 LeBron

2/3 Bird

3/4 Shaq

3/5 Duncan

2/5 ?????


One of these guys dont belong, forgot his name doe

[TheMarkMadsen]

Russell and Magic made 12 and 9 Finals while never being the leading shot takers on their team, guess they weren't as great as Kobe

:facepalm :facepalm

you serious?

why does everything have to be one extreme or the other? There's no one measurement for greatness, but trying to discredit a guy by saying his rings don't count when was leading the team in FGA is ridiculous, by bringing that up i was pointing out how ridiculous it is to say his performances didn't count..

[mehyaM24]

Horry: We weren’t worried. If Shaq would have went down, that would have been an issue. We felt that with Kobe out, no disrespect to Kobe, but we could fill in with B-Shaw [Brian Shaw] and Rick and all the other guys. When you take away size like Shaq, that would have been difficult.

^^^^ above is exactly why shaq is the most dominant player in history. the lakers, as per horry, felt they wouldn't really miss a beat without kobe. they weren't worried one bit. of course, we all saw what happened to the lakers once shaq was in miami - they missed the postseason entirely!

this is another example of why i say its easiest to replace a volume scorer. they're a dime a dozen. mcgrady, carter, and iverson would have been able to replace kobe and the lakers would have been just fine. possibly better without all the drama that ensued.

[ArbitraryWater]

:facepalm :facepalm

you serious?

why does everything have to be one extreme or the other? There's no one measurement for greatness, but trying to discredit a guy by saying his rings don't count when was leading the team in FGA is ridiculous, by bringing that up i was pointing out how ridiculous it is to say his performances didn't count..

kuniva AND DatAsh have now tried to help you.. stop the bullshit, no one is saying "his rings dont count".

[Prime_Shaq]

^^^^ above is exactly why shaq is the most dominant player in history. the lakers, as per horry, felt they wouldn't really miss a beat without kobe. they weren't worried one bit. of course, we all saw what happened to the lakers once shaq was in miami - they missed the postseason entirely!

this is another example of why i say its easiest to replace a volume scorer. they're a dime a dozen. mcgrady, carter, and iverson would have been able to replace kobe and the lakers would have been just fine. possibly better without all the drama that ensued.
QFT. You can deny an impact of a dominant Center, just so much easier to build around.

[riseagainst]

Shaq

:bowdown:
:bowdown:

[mehyaM24]

QFT. You can deny an impact of a dominant Center, just so much easier to build around.
correct. just look at shaq's finals in 2000. shaq averages ~40 points during the finals while kobe was getting outplayed and scored by austin croshere, a career role player. it begs to question whether the lakers could have beat the pistons in 2004 without kobe shooting them out of the series? mcgrady, iverson and carter were all pretty good volume scorers, but even they knew when to stop taking bad shots.