Let's Compare 22-Year Old Lebron and MJ vs. Championship-Caliber Competition

[3ball]

Jordan stats vs. 1986 Celtics (#1 ranked defense): 43.7 PPG, 50.1% FG, 58.4% TS

Lebron stats vs. 2007 Spurs (#2 ranked defense): 22.0 PPG, 35.6% FG, 42.6% TS

Lebron's performance at 22 years old against championship-caliber competition was flat-out embarrassing, and not in the same universe as Jordan's.

Obviously, the eastern conference was historically weak at the time, so Lebron got to play the Wizards in the first round and didn't have to face the Spurs until the Finals.

Of course, even though it's no surprise that MJ had superior stats, it's still noteworthy - intuitively, we know that ALL of Lebron's teams would have done much better with Jordan's superior stats and performance.

[Destroyer9]

So MJs stats are more emtpy

[dubeta]

So LeBron went to the finals while Jordan got swept in the first round?

DAMN

[Im Still Ballin]

Lebron was younger

Jordan had a better supporting cast

Defenses cannot be compared, 2000's + beats any defense era

[Smoke117]

Jordan stats vs. 1986 Celtics (#1 ranked defense): 43.7 PPG, 50.1% FG, 58.4% TS

Lebron stats vs. 2007 Spurs (#2 ranked defense): 22.0 PPG, 35.6% FG, 42.6% TS

Lebron's performance at 22 years old against championship-caliber competition was flat-out embarrassing, and not in the same universe as Jordan's.

Obviously, the eastern conference was historically weak at the time, so Lebron got to play the Wizards in the first round and didn't have to face the Spurs until the Finals.

Of course, even though it's no surprise that MJ had superior stats, it's still noteworthy - intuitively, we know that ALL of Lebron's teams would have done much better with Jordan's superior stats and performance.

Celtics Drating: 102.6

Spurs Drating: 99.6

Cavs pace: 90.6

Bulls pace: 99.7

:yaohappy:

[ThePhantomCreep]

Celtics Drating: 102.6

Spurs Drating: 99.6

Cavs pace: 90.6

Bulls pace: 99.7

:yaohappy:

As of this makes up for the fact that MJ damn near doubled Bron's point total.

[KobesFinger]

So 22 year old LeBron lead his team to the Finals whereas 22 year old Jordan didn't? Gotcha, LeBron >>>>>>> Jordan

[3ball]

As of this makes up for the fact that MJ damn near doubled Bron's point total.


not only that, but 50.1% FG and 58.4% TS > 35.6% FG and 42.6% TS regardless of pace

[Trollsmasher]

Jordan was 23 tho

[Marchesk]

So 22 year old LeBron lead his team to the Finals whereas 22 year old Jordan didn't? Gotcha, LeBron >>>>>>> Jordan

And if Lebron had to play the Spurs in the first round?

[Marchesk]

Anyway, Rick Barry at age 22 put up 40.8 against the 76ers in the finals, who had a defensive rating of 93.9.

[Smoke117]

As of this makes up for the fact that MJ damn near doubled Bron's point total.

Who said it makes up for that? That MJ is a better scorer isn't in doubt, That Jordan took 31.6 shots to Lebron's 22.6 isn't in doubt, that the Spurs defense was better than the Celtics isn't in doubt, and that the Bulls played at a much higher pace as opposed to the Cavs isn't in doubt.

In the end? This thread is about a sample size of 3 games vs 4 games ie: typical moronic 3ball thread.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Who said it makes up for that? That MJ is a better scorer isn't in doubt, That Jordan took 31.6 shots to Lebron's 22.6 isn't in doubt, that the Spurs defense was better than the Celtics isn't in doubt, and that the Bulls played at a much higher pace as opposed to the Cavs isn't in doubt.

In the end? This thread is about a sample size of 3 games vs 4 games ie: typical moronic 3ball thread.
In context MJ faced the superior defense. Plain and simple.

2002 Wizards had a better D rating than the 1991 Bulls. Better defensive team, obviously, right?

And ultimately who was the greater basketball team ... The 2007 Spurs or the 1986 Celtics?

Point is Jordan performed better against the competition he faced in comparison to how LeBron fared at a similar age, albeit with 3 more years of NBA experience.

[ShawkFactory]

Jordan stats vs. 1986 Celtics (#1 ranked defense): 43.7 PPG, 50.1% FG, 58.4% TS

Lebron stats vs. 2007 Spurs (#2 ranked defense): 22.0 PPG, 35.6% FG, 42.6% TS

Lebron's performance at 22 years old against championship-caliber competition was flat-out embarrassing, and not in the same universe as Jordan's.

Obviously, the eastern conference was historically weak at the time, so Lebron got to play the Wizards in the first round and didn't have to face the Spurs until the Finals.

Of course, even though it's no surprise that MJ had superior stats, it's still noteworthy - intuitively, we know that ALL of Lebron's teams would have done much better with Jordan's superior stats and performance.
You waste so much of your time doing this. It's hysterical.

[knicksman]

what we can deduce from this is 2/5<<6/6

[3ball]

that the Bulls played at a much higher pace as opposed to the Cavs isn't in doubt.


Today's era plays at a slower pace because 3-pointers have slowed the game down.

The only reason teams run offense in the first place is to get OPEN SHOTS - 3-pointers need to be more open than 2-pointers, so they require more offense to be run, which slows the game down.

Additionally, 3-pointers create spacing, and spacing encourages slower offenses: taking advantage of spaced-out defenses requires additional ball movement.

Everything about 3-pointers slows the pace down... The slower pace lowers scoring and makes it appear as though defenses are shutting teams down.. But in reality, teams are just moving ball more as required to get 3-point looks and set up spacing, and as required to get the open shots provided by said spacing.
.

[Smoke117]

In context MJ faced the superior defense. Plain and simple.

2002 Wizards had a better D rating than the 1991 Bulls. Better defensive team, obviously, right?

And ultimately who was the greater basketball team ... The 2007 Spurs or the 1986 Celtics?

Point is Jordan performed better against the competition he faced in comparison to how LeBron fared at a similar age, albeit with 3 more years of NBA experience.

Listen if you need a 3-4 game sample size to prove something than your welcome to it. This thread is ridiculously stupid.

[3ball]

Listen if you need a 3-4 game sample size to prove something than your welcome to it. This thread is ridiculously stupid.
but the statistical gap is SO significant, that no rational individual would chalk it up to sample size.

[Straight_Ballin]

So 22 year old LeBron lead his team to the Finals whereas 22 year old Jordan didn't? Gotcha, LeBron >>>>>>> Jordan

The only thing you need to get is that when Jordan had a team good enough to even get to the finals, he ensured victory. 6 for 6. How come LeBron could only muster up 2/5?

Lebron with 3 more years NBA experience and more time with his team performs half of what Jordan did with only 1 season of NBA experience. Ever hear of first impressions when in the finals? That right there told me Bron would never measure up to Jordan.

[MJistheGOAT]

I myself am a huge MJ stan and I consider him the GOAT and >>> Lebrick

But this 3ball guy has made me root AGAINST MJ reading his threads. He is ridiculous.

[3ball]

.
No weakside spacing = All 5 defenders on strongside and/or in paint


http://i.imgur.com/0l1UUv8.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-23-2015/CKpLH1.gif

http://i.imgur.com/eyhnnp8.gif

http://i.imgur.com/yjM3Sgo.gif

[ralph_i_el]

lol MJ gets swept in the first, Bron made the finals

[Optimus Prime]

Advanced stats time!

MJ: 6/6

LeBron: 2/5

This thread (and LeBron trolls) are a joke, considering that MJ put up 63 against one of the best teams ever (the Bird Celtics) and faced the Bad Boy Pistons for many years. LeBron hasn't faced any competition until the Finals, and is still just 2/5.

:kobe:

[SouBeachTalents]

Advanced stats time!

MJ: 6/6

LeBron: 2/5

This thread (and LeBron trolls) are a joke, considering that MJ put up 63 against one of the best teams ever (the Bird Celtics) and faced the Bad Boy Pistons for many years. LeBron hasn't faced any competition until the Finals, and is still just 2/5.

:kobe:

So Kobe faced weak competition in the '08-'10 Finals?

[Paul George 24]

So LeBron went to the finals while Jordan got swept in the first round?

DAMN

LEBRON PLAYS IN A MUCH WEAKER ERA :banana:

[Paul George 24]

lol MJ gets swept in the first, Bron made the finals

WEAK ERA,SWEEP BY THE SPURS :lol

[warriorfan]

MJ on another level

[aj1987]

Jordan stats vs. 1986 Celtics (#1 ranked defense): 43.7 PPG, 50.1% FG, 58.4% TS

Lebron stats vs. 2007 Spurs (#2 ranked defense): 22.0 PPG, 35.6% FG, 42.6% TS
22 year old MJ - First round sweep
22 year old LJ - Made the Finals

Pre-Pippen/Phil MJ stats = Empty AF.

Inb4 salty ****** MJ stans.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

The real travesty is that the 86 Bulls made the playoffs with a 30-52 record.

#creampuffera

[pauk]

https://i.imgflip.com/iwai1.jpg

[3ball]

that the Spurs defense was better than the Celtics isn't in doubt


The Spurs couldn't paint-camp like the Celtics did.

In today's game, defenders can only remain in the paint if they're within armslength (http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html) of their man - a man's arm is 3 feet long and the paint is 16 x 19 feet, so paint defenders must cling to their man at all times, even when both players are inside the paint.

Previous era defenders were allowed the armslength provision too, but they could also stay in the lane if their man was OUT of armslength reach - the defender's man could be anywhere inside the paint and up to 3 feet outside the lane on either side, as stipulated in rule Rule 2b (http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html) of the Illegal Defense Guidelines:

2b. "When a defensive player is guarding an offensive player who is adjacent (posted-up) to the 3-second lane, the defensive player may be within the "inside lane" area with no time limitations. An offensive player shall be ruled as "postedup" when he is within 3' of the free throw lane line. A hash mark on the baseline denotes the 3' area."

[Paul George 24]

22 year old MJ - First round sweep
22 year old LJ - Made the Finals

Pre-Pippen/Phil MJ stats = Empty AF.

Inb4 salty ****** MJ stans.

WEAK ERA AND HAS HIS DAD HELPING HIM A LOT:lol
CRAB TRAVEL AGAINST WIZARDS BUT NO CALL :biggums:

[3ball]

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/4f4c41732d2efc336f98c983acb52e72.gif


It's easy to forget that the 1986 Celtics were the #1 defense in the league, SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE they stretched the limits of allowable paint-camping (see Bill Walton above) - their defenders were habitual paint-campers.

This is no surprise - a primary characteristic of the best teams has always been their superior acumen and strategy, which includes the ability to interpret and stretch the limits of the existing rule structure better than other teams.

Otoh, many coaches in previous eras made no effort to ensure their defenders were paint-camping at all, as the announcer points out here about the Miami defense in the 1992 playoffs (the key help defender should be standing right under the rim, not hugging his man near the far edge of the paint):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpcS5DqUOek&t=6m36s
.

[pauk]

If Zone Defenses Come In, Stars May Go Out
Nba Hopes Rules Changes Restore Team Element

April 01, 2001|By Sam Smith.


The subject was defense in the NBA, and Michael Jordan was speaking, although more about offense, especially his. We know few defenses could do anything about that.

But there was one that might be bothersome, the zone defense. It was the topic du jour at last month's All-Star Game, and Jordan was making an impassioned plea before the competition committee that had gathered to consider rules changes to enliven the NBA game. Jordan spoke passionately. If teams were able to play zone defenses, he said, he never would have had the career he did.

.................

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2001-04-01/sports/0104010375_1_defense-recommendations-nba

MJ was great and would have done great vs any type of defense, but even he will tell you that zone defense is the toughest for players like him... he knows, because he played against zone defense all the time in College...

[sportjames23]

I don't even have to read the rest of this thread to know that 3ball's rent is free.

[LeBird]

So Lebron gets to the finals and Jordan doesn't. If you tried to prop up Jordan by this thread you got it ass-backwards.

Even with the fact that Jordan met the Celtics in the first round isn't a saving grace. He simply wasn't the kind of player who was conducive to leading his team to a better RS record like Lebron. He also won 0 games against the Celtics, so it shows that he wasn't a net-positive for his team despite the gaudy numbers.

Lebron could go to any team in the NBA - the ****ing Knicks, even - and turn them into a top 4 seed at the least and more likely a contender.

[Paul George 24]

So Lebron gets to the finals and Jordan doesn't. If you tried to prop up Jordan by this thread you got it ass-backwards.

Even with the fact that Jordan met the Celtics in the first round isn't a saving grace. He simply wasn't the kind of player who was conducive to leading his team to a better RS record like Lebron. He also won 0 games against the Celtics, so it shows that he wasn't a net-positive for his team despite the gaudy numbers.

Lebron could go to any team in the NBA - the ****ing Knicks, even - and turn them into a top 4 seed at the least and more likely a contender.
ｌｅｂｒｏｎ　ｃａｎ

[Dragic4Life]

Lebron is the superior player. Learn to live with it.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Lebron is the superior player. Learn to live with it.

It's trolls like you that keep this ****ing idiot posting.

[Dragic4Life]

It's trolls like you that keep this ****ing idiot posting.
Name one INDIVIDUAL thing that mike is superior at than Lebron.

Can't bring up rings, you're stuck bitch.

[SugarHill]

Name one INDIVIDUAL thing that mike is superior at than Lebron.

Can't bring up rings, you're stuck bitch.
knowing his father

[Quickening]

killing his father

fixed

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Name one INDIVIDUAL thing that mike is superior at than Lebron.

Can't bring up rings, you're stuck bitch.

Scoring? There's no way you seriously think that LeBron is a better scorer than Jordan was.

I don't like using rings as a justification of greatness, and I'm definitely not a Jordan stan, but LeBron has a lot of work left to do if he's going to have any shot at surpassing Jordan.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

knowing his father

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/abr.gif

[Paul George 24]

Name one INDIVIDUAL thing that mike is superior at than Lebron.

Can't bring up rings, you're stuck bitch.

DID LEFLOP EVER SCORE 1 50 PTS GAME :lol

[24-Inch_Chrome]

DID LEFLOP EVER SCORE 1 50 PTS GAME :lol

He has 9 50 point games and 1 60 point game.

[Paul George 24]

He has 9 50 point games and 1 60 point game.

I mean Playoffs :banana:

[riseagainst]

knowing his father

Lebron has gone through 2 stepfathers, Delonte West and Da Real Lambo, does that count?

[Roundball_Rock]

:coleman:

If you are a MJ stan why would you be comparing them at 22? Early LeBron>early MJ in terms of achievements, although not in individual level of play. Jordan's legacy is largely based on 1988-1993, 1996-1998. No one really cares about MJ's first 3 years, his last 2 years and many people literally act as if the 95' season never even happened.

[20Four]

Trust me leBRONZE would be a bench player in the 80s stupid soft ass ZETA ass bitch...cry's when someone touches him blah blah blah....he would get murdered in the 80s

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Trust me leBRONZE would be a bench player in the 80s stupid soft ass ZETA ass bitch...cry's when someone touches him blah blah blah....he would get murdered in the 80s

You're semi-sentient cancer.

[aquaadverse]

Trust me leBRONZE would be a bench player in the 80s stupid soft ass ZETA ass bitch...cry's when someone touches him blah blah blah....he would get murdered in the 80s

Yeah, a 6'8" 260 lb guy coming up through the same system would be a bench player.You're a moron.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Yeah, a 6'8" 260 lb guy coming up through the same system would be a bench player.You're a moron.

Great first post.

:applause:

[aj1987]

You're semi-sentient cancer.
Nah, he's just an angry midget with man tits.