For 2016, who do you think will be Top 3 at their position?

[Suguru101]

C - Gobert, MGasol, Howard.

PF - Davis - LMA, Griffin.

SF - LeBron/Durant, PG.

SG - Harden, Klay, Butler.

PG - Curry, Westbrook, Paul.


Couple of things:

Paul George healthy is simply better than Leonard.

Gobert is the most impactful defensive player in the NBA right now, next year he will be the best overall Center.

Wiggins won't be better than PG by next season, after that i could see it.

Curry is the best PG right now, he will continue being the best next year. I don't see either Irving or Wall getting into the top 3 until Paul declines heavily.

It's very possible that Durant might be slightly better than LeBron by next year, but i'll reserve judgement until i see LeBron trying at his fullest in the playoffs.

Anthony Davis will probably be better than LMA by next year, but he will have to really work on his defensive impact, since right now he gets distracted, and goes for the Ibaka highlight block too often, which leaves him out of position, and overall isn't as great defensively as the casual fan thinks he is.

Thoughts?

[JohnFreeman]

Noah and Gobert over Cousins?

[Suguru101]

Noah and Gobert over Cousins?

Gobert yes, Noah i see your point.

[JohnFreeman]

Gobert yes, Noah i see your point.
Howard over Cousins?

[Suguru101]

Howard over Cousins?

Yes. Cousins showed some good stuff early in the season, but he is still inconsistent. He doesn't play foul-free defense, and is still doesn't give good effort consistently on that side of the ball.

Howard showed he still has it on the playoffs last year, and i expect him to dominate in the playoffs again. But who knows, maybe Karl will have a good effect on Cousins, but until then i have to see it to take him over someone who is reliable.

[JohnFreeman]

Howard is reliable? When was the last time he played a game?

[kurple]

C: Gasol, Cousins, Nurkic

[SyRyanYang]

center is the tricky one I think
even Vucevic has a chance to crack the top 3 if he keeps up his level of play.

[Suguru101]

Howard is reliable? When was the last time he played a game?

January. But when he plays his impact is as big as Cousins. And he is coming back healthier than he's been all season because of fixing his knee issues.

Again, last playoffs Howard played at a level Cousins has not reached yet, and Howard is more consistent defensively and much better on that end.

If i see Howard has declined after coming back, then yes i will change my opinion, i don't exactly like Howard that much, but i have to see it first. Cousins is not consistently good defensively.

[Milbuck]

Cousins is the best C in the game. Easily. People are irrationally knocking him because of his situation. From a pure impact and ability standpoint there is no center in the league as good as him. No offense to Kings fans but the Kings are destroying his reputation with how incompetent their front office is in building around him.

[Suguru101]

center is the tricky one I think
even Vucevic has a chance to crack the top 3 if he keeps up his level of play.

He is bad defensively. Slow footed, pretty bad at guarding pick and rolls, and he doesn't keep people out of the paint.

He is not surpassing Cousins offensively either, so no. Unless a major change happens.

[SyRyanYang]

He is bad defensively. Slow footed, pretty bad at guarding pick and rolls, and he doesn't keep people out of the paint.

He is not surpassing Cousins offensively either, so no. Unless a major change happens.

So? You acting like Gobert isn't a offensive liability?

[JohnFreeman]

Cousins is the best C in the game. Easily. People are irrationally knocking him because of his situation. From a pure impact and ability standpoint there is no center in the league as good as him. No offense to Kings fans but the Kings are destroying his reputation with how incompetent their front office is in building around him.
Pretty much.

[Suguru101]

C: Gasol, Cousins, Nurkic

Nurkic is not better than Goubert right now, and he doesn't have the tools to be close defensively, though he will be better offensively.

I just hold centers to a higher standard defensively. After all, they are the difference between a team being a lay up drill (Varejao on the Cavs), versus a team being actually good defensively (Mozgov on the Cavs, and he's not even All-NBA defensively like Gasol and Goubert).

[Suguru101]

Cousins is the best C in the game. Easily. People are irrationally knocking him because of his situation. From a pure impact and ability standpoint there is no center in the league as good as him. No offense to Kings fans but the Kings are destroying his reputation with how incompetent their front office is in building around him.

Offensively no question. But look at him defensively. The guy can not put good a good showing for more than a few quarters a game. He either gets lost, or just doesn't try that hard, and even when he is engaged he is not on the level of Gasol and Goubert because he is shorter and slower than them.

Now, if he played to his potential defensively, along with his incredible offense he would be the best. But until i see it consistently, i can't put him there.

[Milbuck]

Offensively no question. But look at him defensively. The guy can not put good a good showing for more than a few quarters a game. He either gets lost, or just doesn't try that hard, and even when he is engaged he is not on the level of Gasol and Goubert because he is shorter and slower than them.

Now, if he played to his potential defensively, along with his incredible offense he would be the best. But until i see it consistently, i can't put him there.
He doesn't have to be on the level of a Gobert or Gasol defensively because he blows them away offensively, and in Gasol's case as a rebounder as well. And it's not like he's Al Jefferson defensively, he's one of the best defenders at his position when he's on his game...the problem is that he's been given zero reason to play hard consistently. This is year 5 of his front office ****ing him over. We always talk about Cousins being a head case, not putting in optimal effort...but at what point do we acknowledge that he truly has a reason to be pissed off and dejected?

I mean, they started off the year very promising...they go 9-6 in their first 15 games, a 49 win pace. It's not a huge sample but they were observably playing solid basketball. With him putting up 24/13/3/2 on 51% FG, visibly destroying teams, being a force on both ends. Then he goes down and they go 2-8, a 16 win pace. He's playing hard, being a vocal leader, they're winning at a solid clip. They fire their quality coach who had the severely under talented team playing hard and playing somewhat smart. They go from a potential playoff surprise like 2014 Phoenix...to once again hopeless. It's one incompetent move after another with that team.

The dude put up 39/24 on 50% FG and they lost to the Sixers :oldlol:

The guy's #1 in RPM among centers, #2 in DRPM just behind Bogut. #9 overall in the league. With Cousins on the floor they're right at league average defensively...without him? Dead last by 3 points. With Cousins they're around 12th offensively...without him...27th. There's only so much one guy can do when he's surrounded by a bad supporting cast, a horrible culture of hopelessness and incompetence, weak coaching, etc.

He's playing a conference where the playoff teams have cores of Lillard/Aldridge/Batum/Matthews/Afflalo, CP3/Blake/DJ/Crawford, Duncan/Parker/Leonard/Ginobili, Westbrook/Durant/Ibaka, Gasol/Conley/Zbo/Allen, Dirk/Ellis/Parsons, etc...and just about all of those teams aside from OKC have some of the best coaches in the league.

You give Cousins a coach like, say, Rick Carlisle...and a 2nd option like Lillard...fill the rest of the roster with guys that just play hard and understand how to play team basketball...and Cousins is right up there with the elite teams. He's destroying the league unlike any other C in the game.

[JohnFreeman]

He doesn't have to be on the level of a Gobert or Gasol defensively because he blows them away offensively, and in Gasol's case as a rebounder as well. And it's not like he's Al Jefferson defensively, he's one of the best defenders at his position when he's on his game...the problem is that he's been given zero reason to play hard consistently. This is year 5 of his front office ****ing him over. We always talk about Cousins being a head case, not putting in optimal effort...but at what point do we acknowledge that he truly has a reason to be pissed off and dejected?

I mean, they started off the year very promising...they go 9-6 in their first 15 games, a 49 win pace. It's not a huge sample but they were observably playing solid basketball. With him putting up 24/13/3/2 on 51% FG, visibly destroying teams, being a force on both ends. Then he goes down and they go 2-8, a 16 win pace. He's playing hard, being a vocal leader, they're winning at a solid clip. They fire their quality coach who had the severely under talented team playing hard and playing somewhat smart. They go from a potential playoff surprise like 2014 Phoenix...to once again hopeless. It's one incompetent move after another with that team.

The dude put up 39/24 on 50% FG and they lost to the Sixers :oldlol:

The guy's #1 in RPM among centers, #2 in DRPM just behind Bogut. #9 overall in the league. With Cousins on the floor they're right at league average defensively...without him? Dead last by 3 points. With Cousins they're around 12th offensively...without him...27th. There's only so much one guy can do when he's surrounded by a bad supporting cast, a horrible culture of hopelessness and incompetence, weak coaching, etc.

He's playing a conference where the playoff teams have cores of Lillard/Aldridge/Batum/Matthews/Afflalo, CP3/Blake/DJ/Crawford, Duncan/Parker/Leonard/Ginobili, Westbrook/Durant/Ibaka, Gasol/Conley/Zbo/Allen, Dirk/Ellis/Parsons, etc...and just about all of those teams aside from OKC have some of the best coaches in the league.

You give Cousins a coach like, say, Rick Carlisle...and a 2nd option like Lillard...fill the rest of the roster with guys that just play hard and understand how to play team basketball...and Cousins is right up there with the elite teams. He's destroying the league unlike any other C in the game.
Future rep and blowjob

[kurple]

Cousins is the best C in the game. Easily. People are irrationally knocking him because of his situation. From a pure impact and ability standpoint there is no center in the league as good as him. No offense to Kings fans but the Kings are destroying his reputation with how incompetent their front office is in building around him.
but he keeps losing so much. even now, with the regular season wizards in george karl

sure his team isnt great, but he deserve some of the blame. like, when does he plan on starting winning?

[kurple]

Nurkic is not better than Goubert right now, and he doesn't have the tools to be close defensively, though he will be better offensively.

I just hold centers to a higher standard defensively. After all, they are the difference between a team being a lay up drill (Varejao on the Cavs), versus a team being actually good defensively (Mozgov on the Cavs, and he's not even All-NBA defensively like Gasol and Goubert).
everyone is underrating Nurk's defense

Nurk is literally 20x the defender mozgov is

[kurple]

You give Cousins a coach like, say, Rick Carlisle...and a 2nd option like Lillard...fill the rest of the roster with guys that just play hard and understand how to play team basketball...and Cousins is right up there with the elite teams. He's destroying the league unlike any other C in the game.
just a coach like Rick Carlisle, and a 2nd option like Lizzard

any big man in the world would love that

[KNOW1EDGE]

Jimmy Butler is grossly overrated. IMO
I think Derozan and Beal will outplay him next season.

PG- CP3, Curry, Westbrook (Lillard, Irving, Wall)
SG- Harden, Thompson, Derozan (Jimmy Butler, Beal)
SF- LBJ, Leonard, Hayward (PG13 if he returns fully)
PF- LMA, Davis, Griffin (K.Love)
C- DMC, M.Gasol, D.Howard (Gobert if he develops any offensive game at all)

[Suguru101]

He doesn't have to be on the level of a Gobert or Gasol defensively because he blows them away offensively, and in Gasol's case as a rebounder as well. And it's not like he's Al Jefferson defensively, he's one of the best defenders at his position when he's on his game...the problem is that he's been given zero reason to play hard consistently. This is year 5 of his front office ****ing him over. We always talk about Cousins being a head case, not putting in optimal effort...but at what point do we acknowledge that he truly has a reason to be pissed off and dejected?

I mean, they started off the year very promising...they go 9-6 in their first 15 games, a 49 win pace. It's not a huge sample but they were observably playing solid basketball. With him putting up 24/13/3/2 on 51% FG, visibly destroying teams, being a force on both ends. Then he goes down and they go 2-8, a 16 win pace. He's playing hard, being a vocal leader, they're winning at a solid clip. They fire their quality coach who had the severely under talented team playing hard and playing somewhat smart. They go from a potential playoff surprise like 2014 Phoenix...to once again hopeless. It's one incompetent move after another with that team.

The dude put up 39/24 on 50% FG and they lost to the Sixers :oldlol:

The guy's #1 in RPM among centers, #2 in DRPM just behind Bogut. #9 overall in the league. With Cousins on the floor they're right at league average defensively...without him? Dead last by 3 points. With Cousins they're around 12th offensively...without him...27th. There's only so much one guy can do when he's surrounded by a bad supporting cast, a horrible culture of hopelessness and incompetence, weak coaching, etc.

He's playing a conference where the playoff teams have cores of Lillard/Aldridge/Batum/Matthews/Afflalo, CP3/Blake/DJ/Crawford, Duncan/Parker/Leonard/Ginobili, Westbrook/Durant/Ibaka, Gasol/Conley/Zbo/Allen, Dirk/Ellis/Parsons, etc...and just about all of those teams aside from OKC have some of the best coaches in the league.

You give Cousins a coach like, say, Rick Carlisle...and a 2nd option like Lillard...fill the rest of the roster with guys that just play hard and understand how to play team basketball...and Cousins is right up there with the elite teams. He's destroying the league unlike any other C in the game.

I acknowledged that he doesn't have to reach their level defensively because he is so good offensively, he just has to play up to his potential on defense and be consistent. If he does, he will probably be the best C in the league.

But, he is not doing it right now. And i agree with the mistake of firing the coach, and it seems they would have had a NO kind of season if he doesn't go down. Maybe with Karl they will fix their shit and have a good team around him. Mclemore is coming around, Gay is alright in this role, and they have some trades to do.

But still, what he is capable of has never been in question. Thing is, his situation is not an excuse. The stars of this league didn't stop giving a **** and not giving effort on the other side of the floor just because they had bad teams around them.

Wall didn't do it when Washington was shit for years, Wiggins is playing on a shit team and he isn't taking vacations on defense, Goubert is taking what was the worst defense in the Jazz to a 12-2 stretch in which they have the best defense, even though their record before was shit. You didn't see Wade coasting in the 2009-2010 season when he knew they weren't good enough, nor Bosh on Toronto.

At some point, Cousins will have to play to his potential on defense and be accountable, and when he does, he will be a beast. But he doesn't do it right now, and i haven't seen him do it for more than a few weeks. So, i can't put him as the best.

[Milbuck]

but he keeps losing so much. even now, with the regular season wizards in george karl

sure his team isnt great, but he deserve some of the blame. like, when does he plan on starting winning?
Getting a new coach doesn't magically make you a great team right off the bat. SVG is universally acknowledged as a terrific coach and the Pistons sucked ass for most of the season. This stuff takes time, and it takes even more time when you're as severely under talented and poorly constructed a roster as the Kings.

And it doesn't help that their starting PG Collison who was a pleasant surprise this year has been out the entire time Karl has been there.

[Suguru101]

everyone is underrating Nurk's defense

Nurk is literally 20x the defender mozgov is

No, he's not. He can and probably will be better defensively, but even then, that is not All-NBA level. It's good, but not game changing.

[Milbuck]

I acknowledged that he doesn't have to reach their level defensively because he is so good offensively, he just has to play up to his potential on defense and be consistent. If he does, he will be the best C in the league.

But, he is not doing it right now. And i agree with the mistake of firing the coach, and it seems they would have had a NO kind of season if he doesn't go down. Maybe with Karl they will fix their shit and have a good team around him. Mclemore is coming around, Gay is alright in this role, and they have some trades to do.

But still, what he is capable of has never been in question. Thing is, his situation is not an excuse. The stars of this league didn't stop giving a **** and not giving effort on the other side of the floor just because they had bad teams around them.

Wall didn't do it when Washington was shit for years, Wiggins is playing on a shit team and he isn't taking vacations on defense, Goubert is taking what was the worst defense in the Jazz to a 12-2 stretch in which they have the best defense, even though their record before was shit. You didn't see Wade coasting in the 2009-2010 season when he knew they weren't good enough, nor Bosh on Toronto.

At some point, Cousins will have to play to his potential on defense, and when he does, he will be a beast, but he doesn't do it right now, and i haven't seen him do it for more than a few weeks. So, no.
Wiggins isn't an impactful defender at all this year, he's all potential. And he's a rookie, naturally he's gonna bust his ass at every opportunity he gets trying to establish himself. He has no reason at all to be dejected or upset.

Gobert is a defensive center, so he's going to be exerting most of his energy on that end. We could just as easily talk about his inconsistency on offense.

Wall may have played consistent defense the whole way but his leadership, mentality, etc. didn't develop from good to star-level until last year, and even then he had way more talent on his team with Beal playing well, Nene, Gortat, Ariza, etc. And even then it's not like they were contenders or anything, they would've missed the playoffs in the west.

Lebron wasn't a great defender early on, one of the biggest criticisms of his game early on was his inconsistency and effort lapses on defense. Those Cavs teams when they finally emerged as legit contenders were built on Lebron running the offense, and an elite team defense with a defensive-minded coach. Lebron stepped up his defense. And when he went to Miami, Spo preached defense incessantly and he took it up to an even higher level. The situation he was in absolutely mattered and played a critical part in how he played defense.

Kobe's defense was 100% elite during the 3-peat Lakers run, he was one of the best man defenders in the game. But then his defense took a visible hit after Shaq left and pre-Gasol when he was focusing entirely on carrying the scrubs around him on offense. And sure enough when he got talent around him and they re-built a winning culture, the defense came back, the leadership came back, all of it came back and he won MVP.

The situation you're in matters. Historically it has mattered for tons of players, and Cousins is no exception.

There's a very good reason people still widely acknowledge Lebron as the best player in the world despite this being one of the most inconsistent seasons of his career, players like Westbrook/Harden/Davis putting up better numbers, etc. It's because even with all of that we know Lebron's abilities as a basketball player are higher than anyone else's except maybe a 100% healthy Durant. Same goes for Cousins with centers. His abilities are just higher than any other center. It's just not manifesting itself into wins and consistency because he's in an absolute shithole of a situation right now.

[kurple]

No, he's not. He can and probably will be better defensively, but even then, that is not All-NBA level. It's good, but not game changing.
dude, what the fvck do you know?

[kurple]

Getting a new coach doesn't magically make you a great team right off the bat. SVG is universally acknowledged as a terrific coach and the Pistons sucked ass for most of the season. This stuff takes time, and it takes even more time when you're as severely under talented and poorly constructed a roster as the Kings.

And it doesn't help that their starting PG Collison who was a pleasant surprise this year has been out the entire time Karl has been there.
one of the easiest things to do as a sports fan is to find excuses