Why do Kenyan's DOMINATE distance running?

[Akrazotile]

It confuses me because boozehound and other ISH libs told me there is zero evolutionary difference between humans and that 'race' is literally a fairytale made up by george bush.

How come its always people from Kenya that win in distance running? How come they fair so much more poorly in contests involving strength and power?

Since #WeAreAllTheSame it seems like a crazy improbability that the winner just happens to keep coming from Kenya. Since people arent different in any part of the globe. Literally everyone is the same. So it has to be some kind of highly improbable coincidence.

Can anyone who knows stats and probability venture a theory here? They cant be "better" at it because groups of people arent better at things than other groups. Right? :confusedshrug:

[navy]

Shut up whitey.

[SugarHill]

Why not just say what you really want to say? Why beat around the bush? Do you see what I did there?

[Akrazotile]

OL
Why not just say what you really want to say? Why beat around the bush? Do you see what I did there?


Me? No I dont have anything to say about this question because I dont know the answer.

I want to know what ISH's intellectual elite... rosecity, deucewallaces, boozehound, mavssuperfan, etc think about it because theyre too learned in science to believe in fairytales designed for human comfort.

#everyonestheexactsame
#evolutionexistsbutnotwhenidontwantit
#alldogsarethesame
#allcatsarethesame
#allpeoplesarethesame
#nofairytales
#toosmart
#ibelieveallhumansaretheexactsamebecausescience

[Im so nba'd out]

Shut up whitey.
pretty much this

[Milbuck]

I think what you're trying to say is that black people have much more "off the court" training with all the running they do from crime scenes. I don't know much about Kenya but I'm willing to bet the crime rate there is retarded high compared to civilized countries.

The strength part is actually baffling to me though. You would think being more closely related to gorillas would make them way stronger than white people.

[Akrazotile]

I think what you're trying to say is that black people have much more "off the court" training with all the running they do from crime scenes. I don't know much about Kenya but I'm willing to bet the crime rate there is retarded high compared to civilized countries.

The strength part is actually baffling to me though. You would think being more closely related to gorillas would make them way stronger than white people.


:biggums:


This is not a racial roast. I am asking why people take contradictory stances in evolution?

Bring it up discusing the bible, theyre 100% believers in evolution as obvious scientific fact, anyone who does otherwise is a silly fairytale believer.

Bring it up in the context of race and evolution has clearly played no role in the human species, and we are all one homogenous group with no scientific differences whatsoever. To suggest groups evolved differently is bigoted hatespeech.


How does that work doe?

[Im so nba'd out]

I think what you're trying to say is that black people have much more "off the court" training with all the running they do from crime scenes. I don't know much about Kenya but I'm willing to bet the crime rate there is retarded high compared to civilized countries.

The strength part is actually baffling to me though. You would think being more closely related to gorillas would make them way stronger than white people.
i knew it was just a matter of time before you pulled out the confederate flag :lol

brandon knight > mcw

[SugarHill]

I think what you're trying to say is that black people have much more "off the court" training with all the running they do from crime scenes. I don't know much about Kenya but I'm willing to bet the crime rate there is retarded high compared to civilized countries.

The strength part is actually baffling to me though. You would think being more closely related to gorillas would make them way stronger than white people.
:bowdown:

[RoseCity07]

Genetics. Their bodies are more efficient. I remember hearing something about oxygination. It was a biology class in high school.

[CavaliersFTW]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU0ei9ApmsY

We're not all the same superficially. This statement shouldn't even need to be said it's captain obvious level simple just look at the most obvious different trait that jumps out, the different shades and variations of peoples skin around the globe. Minor superficial variations and immune system variations exist among modern living humans due to environmental conditions of their recent populations being established in different regions around the globe - with varying temperatures, localized diseases, amounts of sunlight etc.

We are however, pretty much identical on the inside, organs like heart/liver/brain that don't come in direct contact with external changes in environment.

We're a relatively recent species that has bottlenecked genetically several times in the recent past (by bottlenecked, I mean almost went extinct) therefore humans on this planet have what is considered very "little" genetic diversity. There are 7 billion people on the planet but we have less genetic diversity than the several hundred thousand or so chimpanzee's that exist on the planet.

To suggest humans are all physically identical and you can't say otherwise or "racism" is retarded. However, to suggest things like intelligence and behavior can also be grouped and characterized by race is equally retarded in my opinion. We're all individuals.

[Akrazotile]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU0ei9ApmsY

We're not all the same superficially. This statement shouldn't even need to be said it's captain obvious level simple just look at the most obvious different trait that jumps out, the different shades and variations of peoples skin around the globe. Minor superficial variations and immune system variations exist among modern living humans due to environmental conditions of their recent populations being established in different regions around the globe - with varying temperatures, localized diseases, amounts of sunlight etc.

We are however, pretty much identical on the inside, organs like heart/liver/brain that don't come in direct contact with external changes in environment.

We're a relatively recent species that has bottlenecked genetically several times in the recent past (by bottlenecked, I mean almost went extinct) therefore humans on this planet have what is considered very "little" genetic diversity. There are 7 billion people on the planet but we have less genetic diversity than the several hundred thousand or so chimpanzee's that exist on the planet.

To suggest humans are all physically identical and you can't say otherwise or "racism" is retarded. However, to suggest things like intelligence and behaviorcan also be grouped and characterized by race is equally retarded in my opinion. We're all individuals.


Why so?

You believe japanese and australian aboriginals have the exact same intellectual skillsets, any difference in testing is simply due to nurture?

What is your basis for that? I'm truly curious, I just like fact-based discussions of science. This kinda stuff is fascinating.

Like Golden Retrievers and Rottweilers are both dogs. And if raised the same they will prob mostly behave about the same, but they do have slightly different responses to certain stimuli and provocation. Right?

Remember, no fairy tales.

[kurple]

its something about their ankles being smaller (easter africans; Eritrea, Somalia etc)

[Maga_1]

It's about running byomechanicsm, their foot/legs composition and their foot attire.

[Giaodollo]

If both your parents are tall, the chances are you'll be tall too, right?

Well Kenyans, and East Africans in general have inherited a bone structure with smaller torsos and longer legs making it more beneficial in long distances running.

[Maga_1]

Watch this, you will be elucidated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTQVHZU4WzE

[Akrazotile]

It's about running byomechanicsm, their foot/legs composition and their foot attire.

What?


http://cdn.europosters.eu/image/750/posters/underneath-we-are-all-the-same-i12925.jpg


:confusedshrug:


There is no such thing as race or ethnicity. People from specific regions don't have region-specific traits.

Fact.



:confusedshrug:

[Maga_1]

What?


http://cdn.europosters.eu/image/750/posters/underneath-we-are-all-the-same-i12925.jpg


:confusedshrug:


Oh ok, you are trolling. Didn't knew that.
If you are serious just watch the documentary and everything will be clear.

[CavaliersFTW]

Why so?

You believe japanese and australian aboriginals have the exact same intellectual skillsets, any difference in testing is simply due to nurture?

What is your basis for that? I'm truly curious, I just like fact-based discussions of science. This kinda stuff is fascinating.

Like Golden Retrievers and Rottweilers are both dogs. And if raised the same they will prob mostly behave about the same, but they do have slightly different responses to certain stimuli and provocation.
My opinion shouldn't really matter, as I'm no expert on the subject but I have always had more than a passing interest in paleontology and anthropology so I like these topics as well. But my opinion is what it is because I have been shown no convincing evidence to believe it should be any reason other than nurture.

As I said, the human gene pool is on paper relatively lacking in diversity compared with many animals on this planet. It indicates we've in relatively recent past almost gone extinct, than had a population resurgence. Think domestic dogs (minus the breeding part) superficially we have far more variation than our DNA actually suggests. Because of environmental factors our immune systems, and organs that come in direct contact with our environments (our skin, our hair, our limb proportions, etc) have had pressures to drift towards different directions for survival despite our relatively recent homogeneous gene pool. Again the pressures for change are all depending on the external environmental/disease conditions in a given region. The parts of our bodies that don't come into contact with the outside world, in both theory and by observation is pretty much all the same stuff as since our last recent near-extinction event. I doubt you could show a brain surgeon the brain of an Ethiopian, and the brain of an Inuit and expect him to be able to tell you what race he came from you know what I mean? Skeletal proportions, skin shades, and immune systems however are known to be different regionally/geographically.

There is currently no convincing evidence I'm aware of out there to suggest that our non-environmental contact internal organs such as our brains started diverging in capabilities among peoples of different regions. Our brains aren't being pressured like our skin or immune systems are in different regions. Given that we are so genetically similar, and that our physical appearances/immune systems are different basically strictly due to external factors, than what pressure would drive anyone else's brain to be superior or inferior to the next persons in say, the past 80 thousand years since our last genetic bottleneck? There's not only a lack of convincing evidence for such an assumption, there's also a lack of reason for a difference in cognitive function among populations to exist.

[Maga_1]

If both your parents are tall, the chances are you'll be tall too, right?

Well Kenyans, and East Africans in general have inherited a bone structure with smaller torsos and longer legs making it more beneficial in long distances running.

That actually doesn't matter.
There is some Asafa Powell and Usain Bolt documentaries talking about their legs structure and their angles.

(Yes, i know they are sprinters not long distance runners).

[CavaliersFTW]

That actually doesn't matter.
There is some Asafa Powell and Usain Bolt documentaries talking about their legs structure and their angles.

(Yes, i know they are sprinters not long distance runners).
Proportions in your body absolutely do matter in sports... particularly well proportioned legs with a good leg/torso ratio are immensely beneficial with running. And different disciplines/distances of running are going to favor different proportions. How would having any mechanical advantage in a particular sport not matter, be it length of arms in basketball, or length and shape of legs in running.

[Timmy D for MVP]

Lol.

Why is a particular country good at something? I'll use this to prove race?

Why are Canadians good at hockey?

[Akrazotile]

Proportions in your body absolutely do matter in sports... particularly well proportioned legs with a good leg/torso ratio are immensely beneficial with running. And different disciplines/distances of running are going to favor different proportions. How would having any mechanical advantage in a particular sport not matter, be it length of arms in basketball, or length and shape of legs in running.


Did you know people of different 'races' have different brain sizes?

But that probably doesn't matter like leg sizes matters to physical characteristics, right?

[imnew09]

It's because its a poor country and they have to walk miles a day to gain access to water. They've been walking long distance since they were little. Essentially they have more endurance, and more accustomed to running marathon.

[Akrazotile]

Lol.

Why is a particular country good at something? I'll use this to prove race?

Why are Canadians good at hockey?


Hockey is a cultural construction that is only practiced in certain places and has existed maybe a couple hundred years.

Running is just a bit more universal.

[CavaliersFTW]

Lol.

Why is a particular country good at something? I'll use this to prove race?

Why are Canadians good at hockey?
Running is different than Hockey. Most everyone on the planet can train to run with minimal equipment and learning curve. Running is also a sport where individuals shine - their own bodies are what win races, not teams. Hockey is a team sport, requires ice rinks, investments in equipment, and a high learning curve. And Canadians aren't a race, Canadians that play Hockey are mostly a variety/mixture of recent ancestral Europeans. I'm sure there are some physical traits that might be beneficial to Hockey as there is mechanical advantage to be found and exploited in ANY sport, but due to the fact that Hockey isn't globally accessible to every population on earth we might never find out which group of people on the planet tends to have the most physically gifted bodies for Hockey. Doesn't matter though, too many variables at play here running is a simple motion done over a long period of time by one person. Individual physical gifts (people with great mechanical advantage) shine through in running.

Everyone, everywhere on earth save for perhaps peoples who live near the arctic circles where daylight and temperatures fluctuate too much, or maybe people's who live in mountains who simply don't have terrain conducive to running - can go out and train to run marathons and long distance races.

There are only so many hours in a day to train. Kenyans don't train any harder or smarter than the other countries/racers competing to be the best distance runners on the planet. When all other variables are equal (training, diet, work ethic, etc) mechanical advantage shines through. Kenyans do have a mechanical advantage in distance running, this isn't racism, this is observational measurable statistical fact.

[Maga_1]

Proportions in your body absolutely do matter in sports... particularly well proportioned legs with a good leg/torso ratio are immensely beneficial with running. And different disciplines/distances of running are going to favor different proportions. How would having any mechanical advantage in a particular sport not matter, be it length of arms in basketball, or length and shape of legs in running.

We are talking specifically about Kenyans.
They don't have the torso smaller and legs longer compared with other countries from the same region, that's what i'm saying.

Having longer legs help sprinters and helps long distance runners, it's really depends on how they support their feet and the angles they use running (byomechanics). Trust me, i know this.

The logical explanation is in the documentary i posted.

[CavaliersFTW]

It's because its a poor country and they have to walk miles a day to gain access to water. They've been walking long distance since they were little. Essentially they have more endurance, and more accustomed to running marathon.
No. There are 7 billion people on this planet, rest assured many poor people in Russia, Mexico, South America, etc grew up walking/running equally long distances since they were little. With Kenyans, it's their mechanical advantage.

[Akrazotile]

We are talking specifically about Kenyans.
They don't have the torso smaller and legs longer compared with other countries from the same region, that's what i'm saying.

Having longer legs help sprinters and helps long distance runners, it's really depends on how they support their feet and the angles they use running (byomechanics). Trust me, i know this.

The logical explanation is in the documentary i posted.


Okay, yes, other East African countries fair well above average in marathons as well. I said Kenyans specifically because they're probably the most prolific among them.

But we can rephrase the question if you like, Why do East Africans DOMINATE distance running?

[Maga_1]

Okay, yes, other East African countries fair well above average in marathons as well. I said Kenyans specifically because they're probably the most prolific among them.

But we can rephrase the question if you like, Why do East Africans DOMINATE distance running?

With that being said.

BIOMECHANICS.

[kurple]

We are talking specifically about Kenyans.
They don't have the torso smaller and legs longer compared with other countries from the same region, that's what i'm saying.

Having longer legs help sprinters and helps long distance runners, it's really depends on how they support their feet and the angles they use running (byomechanics). Trust me, i know this.

The logical explanation is in the documentary i posted.
its the ankles bro

i remember learning this shyt in school

[CavaliersFTW]

We are talking specifically about Kenyans.
They don't have the torso smaller and legs longer compared with other countries from the same region, that's what i'm saying.

Having longer legs help sprinters and helps long distance runners, it's really depends on how they support their feet and the angles they use running (byomechanics). Trust me, i know this.

The logical explanation is in the documentary i posted.
So what are you saying, Kenyans (from within the borders of Kenya) train harder/smarter than the peoples of the same recent ancestral origins from w/e countries border Kenya?... great. If you're saying they're the same as their neighboring populations it doesn't change anything, they ALL still have a mechanical advantage over the rest of the known world when it comes to long distance running. Train everyone on the planet the same way, the Kenyans (or would you rather me say people's of the Kenyan region and bordering regions?) have a mechanical advantage.

[kurple]

Okay, yes, other East African countries fair well above average in marathons as well. I said Kenyans specifically because they're probably the most prolific among them.
isnt Eritrea and Ethiopia just as good?

[Maga_1]

So what are you saying, Kenyans (from within the borders of Kenya) train harder/smarter than the peoples of the same recent ancestral origins from w/e countries border Kenya?... great. If you're saying they're the same as their neighboring populations it doesn't change anything, they ALL still have a mechanical advantage over the rest of the known world when it comes to long distance running. Train everyone on the planet the same way, the Kenyans (or would you rather me say people's of the Kenyan region and bordering regions?) have a mechanical advantage.

Nop.
What i'm saying is that they have the biomechanic advantage (a concrete one, the ankle stuff in the documentary) + one of the best regimens of trainning in the world.

Talking specifically about torso/legs lenght is just wrong in running.
Does it help? Yea sure.
Is that why they are superior agains the rest of the competition? No, it's not. I bet 90% of their competition has the same measures.

[Akrazotile]

With that being said.

BIOMECHANICS.


So you're saying that humans from different parts of the planet have evolved specific traits separate from peoples in other parts?

[CavaliersFTW]

isnt Eritrea and Ethiopia just as good?
East Africans let's all just say East Africans.

This confusion is actually an example of the inherent problem when trying to define "race"... There's really no clear cut boundaries to determine race only what we make up. There's lots of overlap among populations around the world, and lots of repeated recent and ancient "mixture" among populations. And we're all not that different/distantly related to begin with.

In general, East Africans are observed to have better bio mechanics for long distance running.

[Maga_1]

its the ankles bro

i remember learning this shyt in school

I know man, it's because of their motion and how well they spend oxygen because of their biomechanical movements (especially talking about their bone structure in their ankles.)

[Maga_1]

So you're saying that humans from different parts of the planet have evolved specific traits separate from peoples in other parts?

I can not say the evolved.
First, because i'm not well related with the subject of the human evolution.
Second, because i don't know if we can call an evolution or an adaptation.

[kurple]

I know man, it's because of their motion and how well they spend oxygen because of their biomechanical movements (especially talking about their bone structure in their ankles.)
:applause:

correctomundo

[Timmy D for MVP]

Hockey is a cultural construction that is only practiced in certain places and has existed maybe a couple hundred years.

Running is just a bit more universal.

Which is all well and fine.

Kenyan is not a race.

[Timmy D for MVP]

Which is all well and fine.

Kenyan is not a race.

And if you're in a marathon with a Kenyan it's not going to be a race.

Tip your waitresses!

[Maga_1]

:applause:

correctomundo

Btw, how did you learn that stuff in school?! :oldlol:
I just know that because i'm really into sports and their specific methods and stuff like that... just did research by myself.

[kurple]

Btw, how did you learn that stuff in school?! :oldlol:
I just know that because i'm really into sports and their specific methods and stuff like that... just did research by myself.
i went to like a sports academy in high school

a bit too much theory, but i guess it became usefull now

[Maga_1]

i went to like a sports academy in high school

a bit too much theory, but i guess it became usefull now

Ohh got it. good stuff.
Yea it's a lot of theory but it something that i really appreciate to know.
Besides this i have read stuff about:
- Jamaicans being the best sprinters.
- Why Phelps and Thorpe are specimens in swimming.
- Cristiano Ronaldo combination of physical and mental skills.

And i'm currently doing a research to creat a program about nutrition and energy conditions especially for basketball players and their biomechanic movimentations in-game and how they spend energy.

[9erempiree]

Michael Jordan is Kenyan too.

Proof why he is such a beast.

We can do this for basketball players too. The dark skin ninjas vs the light skinned ninjas.

[kurple]

Michael Jordan is Kenyan too.

Proof why he is such a beast.

We can do this for basketball players too. The dark skin ninjas vs the light skinned ninjas.
:facepalm

[Akrazotile]

East Africans let's all just say East Africans.

This confusion is actually an example of the inherent problem when trying to define "race"... There's really no clear cut boundaries to determine race only what we make up. There's lots of overlap among populations around the world, and lots of repeated recent and ancient "mixture" among populations. And we're all not that different/distantly related to begin with.

In general, East Africans are observed to have better bio mechanics for long distance running.


We tend to simplify race based on visual convenience - black, white, yellow. And that's an oversimplification, however it seems pretty obvious that over time, different regions of the globe produced different characteristics in their native populations. It's clear cut. What is there to argue about this?

Jews were forced over many hundreds of years into essentially white collar occupations. As a result, those best suited to them sired the most living offspring, and those genes became predominant in the Jewish gene pool. Today, despite the removal of occupation restriction, Jews consistently score an entire standard deviation higher on IQ tests than the populations they live among. Do you think this is a coincidence? You think physical differences exist but you're sure psychological ones don't? What??

This has nothing to do with any sort of 'superiority.' That's entirely subjective. However, different skills - mental and physical - varied in their evolutionary importance in different regions of the world. Did you know that in scientific tests, Asian babies were more shy than Caucasian babies, which were more shy than African babies? Is that a result of nature, nurture, or both, it's difficult to say. I don't know if cross-parenting studies have been done on it but I am positive that even as small children, different historically separated groups show different personality characteristics.


The point I'm getting at is that people tend to expect cities like Ferguson to behave the same way as a city like Portland. People in Ferguson expect to have the same level of success as a city like Portland. And we're all scratching our head as to why this isn't happening. Is it culture? History? Systematic oppression? Everyone is quick to volunteer those suggestions, but the taboo suggestion is simply demographics. Now I'm not saying this IS the cause, but it's a possibility everyone refuses to scrutinize. If we were actually able to identify it as the problem, then we can all figure out the best course of action from there.

The problem of course is that to suggest a group has distinct qualities from a different group, means you are going to hurt the feelings of everyone who might get lumped in that group, and that's why people are scared to do it. But the reality is, there's no need to fear for anyone's feelings. Group rates don't affect an individual. On average, Japanese people are shorter than American whites and blacks, yet the tallest person ever drafted in NBA history? 7'7 Yasutaka Okayama. The smartest person on Earth could very well be an australian aboriginal, even though as a group they test the lowest on western intelligence tests. Just because we acknowledge certain patterns within a group does NOT mean we are boxing in every individual who shares lineage in common with it.

But we know Kenyan's always succeed in running. We know Jews do well on standardized tests. We know black toddlers are sociable. We know the average height of the Japanese population. These are observable trends. These are scientifically verifiable group traits.


So the point is, are we fooling ourselves to expect all groups to turn out equally across all categories? Whether it be in career success, athletics, relationships, etc? Do we think it's simply culture and history that prohibits us from having success rates mirror population proportions? I honestly don't CARE what the answer is. I'm not someone who's trying to put down anyone or any group, I simply want the REAL answers, not the fairy tale answers the fringe left wants to propagate because they're afraid of being labeled as hateful for straying too far away from the groupthink.

[9erempiree]

Kenyans known for their legs.
https://jeeeed.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/michael-jordan-bulls-rookie.jpg
https://media2.wnyc.org/i/1448/972/c/80/1/kenyan_runners.jpg

[NumberSix]

We are however, pretty much identical on the inside, organs like heart/liver/brain that don't come in direct contact with external changes in environmen.
A liver doesn't come in contact with the environment?

It's a crucial organ for the digestive process. People from a Northern European environment were surrounded by different animals and plant life than people in east Africa, right? Would it be reasonable to think that eating different animals and plants would affect how digestive organs adapt?

Have you ever noticed that in the western world, African people suffer the worst when it comes to things like diabetes, certain cancers, etc.? The western diet takes a greater toll on their health.

As for the heart, have you ever noticed that African Americans suffer more from heart disease? There actually are differences in the heart. On being the size of the ventricles.

The brain? That's a touchy subject for a lot of people. However, brain size and skull shape does differ by race.

[warriorfan]

Why do pinoys dominate nothing?

looks like they are dominating your mind at the moment

[TheSilentKiller]

I haven't read any of the responses but this thread was made for me. I ran competitively from age 13 to 21.

There are a plethora of reasons why Africans (not just Kenyans) dominate distance running. I'll give the top 3

1) From the earliest of ages, they have to travel great distances to get things they need. Several accomplished runners have told tales of walking/running to school ten kilometers each day, while carrying books. Walking/running far to get water/food each day for your family. All of this builds up and incredible aerobic base from a very very young age that can later develop into a background for professional distance running.

2) The environment in which they grow up is very conducive to high aerobic development. Kenya (and several other countries in Africa) are at a higher elevation than most places in Europe and the United States. Living at higher elevation has been studied and found to drastically increase aerobic development.

3) Running is one of the few ways for young Africans to find success / gain money for their families. In a sport that requires nothing but your determination and will, running is incredibly accessable from a young age. You don't need equipment or a field, just the world around you. If

[TheSilentKiller]

OK after reading this thread most of ya'll are idiots.

[riseagainst]

Kenyans dominate it because they deliver mail/packages via human transportation. They don't have the luxury of riding in cars. They just run everywhere. Instead of talking on the phone, they run 50 miles to their mom's house just to tell her good night.

[Heilige]

The point I'm getting at is that people tend to expect cities like Ferguson to behave the same way as a city like Portland. People in Ferguson expect to have the same level of success as a city like Portland. And we're all scratching our head as to why this isn't happening. Is it culture? History? Systematic oppression? Everyone is quick to volunteer those suggestions, but the taboo suggestion is simply demographics. Now I'm not saying this IS the cause, but it's a possibility everyone refuses to scrutinize. If we were actually able to identify it as the problem, then we can all figure out the best course of action from there.



What do you personally feel are the reasons cities like Portland have more levels of success than cities like Ferguson?

[DonDadda59]

I haven't read any of the responses but this thread was made for me. I ran competitively from age 13 to 21.

There are a plethora of reasons why Africans (not just Kenyans) dominate distance running. I'll give the top 3

1) From the earliest of ages, they have to travel great distances to get things they need. Several accomplished runners have told tales of walking/running to school ten kilometers each day, while carrying books. Walking/running far to get water/food each day for your family. All of this builds up and incredible aerobic base from a very very young age that can later develop into a background for professional distance running.

2) The environment in which they grow up is very conducive to high aerobic development. Kenya (and several other countries in Africa) are at a higher elevation than most places in Europe and the United States. Living at higher elevation has been studied and found to drastically increase aerobic development.

3) Running is one of the few ways for young Africans to find success / gain money for their families. In a sport that requires nothing but your determination and will, running is incredibly accessable from a young age. You don't need equipment or a field, just the world around you. If

Someone always has to come into a thread and derail it with logic :facepalm

Bold- reason why so many athletes who are training for endurance make sure to hold training camps in high altitude locations (or just use EPO instead :lol ). Training in higher altitudes increases your red blood cell count/mass and helps muscle metabolism. Now imagine nomadic people living their entire lives, for generations, under those conditions without the luxury of transportation systems. It's not really that hard of a puzzle to put together.

The funny thing is, as recently as the late 20th century, there was a prevailing stereotype in track and field that Black people couldn't compete in long distance races, that they could only excel in sprints. Then Back people from certain regions in Africa started competing and dominating in long distance events.

[Derka]

I always thought it was due to the higher elevation they train and live at.

[DonDadda59]

I always thought it was due to the higher elevation they train and live at.

Nah bro, it's because of some phrenology, eternal jew shit. Check the stats.

[Akrazotile]

Someone always has to come into a thread and derail it with logic :facepalm

Bold- reason why so many athletes who are training for endurance make sure to hold training camps in high altitude locations (or just use EPO instead :lol ). Training in higher altitudes increases your red blood cell count/mass and helps muscle metabolism. Now imagine nomadic people living their entire lives, for generations, under those conditions without the luxury of transportation systems. It's not really that hard of a puzzle to put together.

The funny thing is, as recently as the late 20th century, there was a prevailing stereotype in track and field that Black people couldn't compete in long distance races, that they could only excel in sprints. Then Back people from certain regions in Africa started competing and dominating in long distance events.


Right. Over many generations, the ones most suited to success in the climate probably had, on average, more offspring that were born better suited to success in that climate. No?

[dude77]

or maybe because they're dopers

Rita Jeptoo banned 2 years (http://espn.go.com/sports/endurance/story/_/id/12252671/boston-marathon-chicago-marathon-champ-rita-jeptoo-banned-2-years-doping)

[TheSilentKiller]

Right. Over many generations, the ones most suited to success in the climate probably had, on average, more offspring that were born better suited to success in that climate. No?
This isn't about race... this is about environment



Guess who just started high altitude training within the last 20 or so years? - America




Guess who just won an Olympic medal in the 10k - An American





http://rs284.pbsrc.com/albums/ll36/Bigsteve87/Gifs/340x-2.gif~c200

[TheSilentKiller]

or maybe because they're dopers

Rita Jeptoo banned 2 years (http://espn.go.com/sports/endurance/story/_/id/12252671/boston-marathon-chicago-marathon-champ-rita-jeptoo-banned-2-years-doping)
Doping is fairly equally prevalent among nations.

[DonDadda59]

Right. Over many generations, the ones most suited to success in the climate probably had, on average, more offspring that were born better suited to success in that climate. No?

That nigguh Darwin may have been onto something :eek:


Doping is fairly equally prevalent among nations.

Only Kenyans dope bruh :no:


I'm gonna be very bold and say people in different parts of the world developed different physical attributes


Macho so edgy.

[TheSilentKiller]

Only Kenyans dope bruh :no:

shit sorry i didn't mean to stray from the (not so) thinly laced racism thread :hammerhead:

[dude77]

Doping is fairly equally prevalent among nations.

lol cool, I didn't know doping was the hip, in thing now .. not a big deal .. so you agree they should return armstrong his tdf wins ? .. you know, since it's fairly prevalent among nations

[TheSilentKiller]

lol cool, I didn't know doping was the hip, in thing now .. not a big deal .. so you agree they should return armstrong his tdf wins ? .. you know, since it's fairly prevalent among nations
Anybody and everybody caught doping should be suspended/banned. I am not making excuses for Rita Jeptoo but I will not stand back and have racists bring up doping as if only Africans are doing it.

[dude77]

so I assume you think armstrong didn't do anything wrong and should get his titles back ? .. why is this dude's legacy being tarnished .. everyone dopes .. it's all good ? :confusedshrug:

[dude77]

Anybody and everybody caught doping should be suspended/banned. I am not making excuses for Rita Jeptoo but I will not stand back and have racists bring up doping as if only Africans are doing it.

answer the question hypocrite

[DonDadda59]

so I assume you think armstrong didn't do anything wrong and should get his titles back right ? .. why is this dude's legacy being tarnished .. everyone dopes .. it's all good right ?

I thought we were discussing phrenology-like junk science and Der ewige Jude logic in relation to Kenyan long distance runners... when did this turn into a Lance Armstrong morality thread? :confusedshrug:

[TheSilentKiller]

answer the question hypocrite
loooool grasping at straws


Lance Armstrong should be stripped of his titles. As should Rita Jeptoo. Both cheated. What's the argument?

[Akrazotile]

This isn't about race... this is about environment


Guess who just started high altitude training within the last 20 or so years? - America



Wow, this one time at band camp an American won a 10k event?? Thats it. Call everyone up and tell them there are no differences between anyone anywhere.

I saw a white guy playing in the NFL, and one playing in the NBA. I guess those sports arent dominated by West Africans. Interdasting. Of course even if they were its bc American blacks are training at... Uhh... Different.... I dunno, what kind of training landscape makes you a good runningback?


Most recent Boston Marathon winner:
"Meb Keflezighi and his family were refugees[4] from Eritrea, who came to the United States via Italy in 1987. He is one of ten children. Keflezighi and his family were refugees[4] from Eritrea, who came to the United States via Italy in 1987. He is one of ten children.[5]

He began running while a student at Memorial Academy in San Diego, where he ran a 5:10 mile before going on to win both the 1600 meters and 3200 meters at the CIF California State Championships in 1994 for San Diego High School.[5][6][7] Keflezighi"

[TheSilentKiller]

Wow, this one time at band camp an American won a 10k event?? Thats it. Call everyone up and tell them there are no differences between anyone anywhere.

I saw a white guy playing in the NFL, and one playing in the NBA. I guess those sports arent dominated by West Africans. Interdasting. Of course even if they were its bc American blacks are training at... Uhh... Different.... I dunno, what kind of training landscape makes you a good runningback?


Most recent Boston Marathon winner:
"Meb Keflezighi and his family were refugees[4] from Eritrea, who came to the United States via Italy in 1987. He is one of ten children. Keflezighi and his family were refugees[4] from Eritrea, who came to the United States via Italy in 1987. He is one of ten children.[5]

He began running while a student at Memorial Academy in San Diego, where he ran a 5:10 mile before going on to win both the 1600 meters and 3200 meters at the CIF California State Championships in 1994 for San Diego High School.[5][6][7] Keflezighi"

This one time at bandcamp that happened to be located at a place with very high elevation!!!!!!



I really don't understand what you are trying to argue? I've specifically told you what makes Africans so dominant with running. If you can clarify what more you want to know I'll help you out!!!!

[Akrazotile]

I thought we were discussing phrenology-like junk science and Der ewige Jude logic in relation to Kenyan long distance runners... when did this turn into a Lance Armstrong morality thread? :confusedshrug:


So human evolution from apes is certain and concrete. But human divergence in isolated regions is junk science?

Do you want to make some kind of an attempt to justify this contradiction or do you wanna just admit from the get-go it's agenda driven? I mean I've got time, we can do either one.

[TheSilentKiller]

So human evolution from apes is certain and concrete. But human divergence in isolated regions is junk science?

Do you want to make some kind of an attempt to justify this contradiction or do you wanna just admit from the get-go it's agenda driven? I mean I've got time, we can do either one.
I'm not disagreeing with that. Going back to the higher elevation higher aerobic capacity point... you can get some of this passed down genetically. I've never tried to argue that.

But it still isn't about race bro. It's about enviroment. Throw some whiteys in Africa and put them in the same situation as most of Africa for a couple hundred years and they'll produce some good ass runners.

[DonDadda59]

This one time at bandcamp that happened to be located at a place with very high elevation!!!!!!



I really don't understand what you are trying to argue? I've specifically told you what makes Africans so dominant with running. If you can clarify what more you want to know I'll help you out!!!!

He wants you to tell him that there's a specific gene that makes all the Black people in Ferguson account for 95% of jaywalking violations.

That sort of shit never goes down in Portland. All the White people there obey street crossing protocols.

[TheSilentKiller]

He wants you to tell him that there's a specific gene that makes all the Black people in Ferguson account for 95% of jaywalking violations.

That sort of shit never goes down in Portland. All the White people there obey street crossing protocols.
You mean this whole thing wasn't about african distance running?!?!?!



http://i.imgur.com/rfFWukr.gif

[SugarHill]

You mean this whole thing wasn't about african distance running?!?!?!



http://i.imgur.com/rfFWukr.gif
lmao why anyone even entertained the long distance running shit is just hilarious to me

[sweggeh]

Same reason your mom dominates my hard dick. Its what they were born to do.

[CavaliersFTW]

I'm not disagreeing with that. Going back to the higher elevation higher aerobic capacity point... you can get some of this passed down genetically. I've never tried to argue that.

But it still isn't about race bro. It's about enviroment. Throw some whiteys in Africa and put them in the same situation as most of Africa for a couple hundred years and they'll produce some good ass runners.
...try 10's of thousands of years or more but yes.

A couple of hundred years is only a few generations, not nearly enough time for significant physical changes to start happening.

After 10's of thousands of years there wouldn't be any more white skin it'd be dark again due to the sun/climate, and w/e pressures (assuming they are the same) that made Kenyan's good runners would likely have selected the same kinds of physiology in the once-white people's.

[Akrazotile]

He wants you to tell him that there's a specific gene that makes all the Black people in Ferguson account for 95% of jaywalking violations.

That sort of shit never goes down in Portland. All the White people there obey street crossing protocols.


I'm not saying discrimination, history, culture, circumstance don't play critical roles in the exact way places like Ferguson turn out. They do.

However, I know for sure that cops zero in on the overwhelmingly Chinese residents of Monterey Park and San Gabriel etc areas in LA for traffic violations, because they know half the people dont even speak english and theyre just gonna accept the ticket and pay it in full without a problem. Yet somehow I dont find many who blame the environment of the entire community on being targeted for traffic tickets.

There are likely myriad factors for the way things develop. The ones that relate to victimhood are always ushered to the front by those who wish to blindly preserve an ideal, and the ones that may result from a scientific discrepeancy that could lead to the worst thing in the whole wild world - stereotypes! - are always derided and drowned out by the venomous intolerance of PC idealists.

I mean Im just sayin. Do we want to do what it takes to get answers and improvement at whatever cost, or do we want to kid ourselves? :confusedshrug:

[CavaliersFTW]

I'm not saying discrimination, history, culture, circumstance don't play critical roles in the exact way places like Ferguson turn out. They do.

However, I know for sure that cops zero in on the overwhelmingly Chinese residents of Monterey Park and San Gabriel etc areas in LA for traffic violations, because they know half the people dont even speak english and theyre just gonna accept the ticket and pay it in full without a problem. Yet somehow I dont find many who blame the environment of the entire community on being targeted for traffic tickets.

There are likely myriad factors for the way things develop. The ones that relate to victimhood are always ushered to the front by those who wish to blindly preserve an ideal, and the ones that may result from a scientific discrepeancy that could lead to the worst thing in the whole wild world - stereotypes! - are always derided and drowned out by the venomous intolerance of PC idealists.

I mean Im just sayin. Do we want to do what it takes to get answers and improvement at whatever cost, or do we want to kid ourselves? :confusedshrug:
I feel like you might be leaping to a connection here which I pointed out has no basis in fact, or theory though.

The conclusion that physiological differences in peoples around the globe due to external factors (climate, sunlight, etc) also implies potential differences in internal structures like our brains. But it doesn't. If you understand the mechanisms that caused these physical changes, you'd understand that they are not in place for internal ones.

There may be variations in immune systems, limb ratios, skin color and hair textures among populations around the world yes? You show the bones of an inuit and a kenyan to a doctor he may actually be able to tell you which was which. But internally, you show the kidney and brain of an kenyan and an inuit to a doctor, he'll be scratching his head.

Our environments triggered change in only the parts of us that come in contact with our environments (our outward appearance, our bodies). There is no evidence to support, nor even a theory to support our brains function any differently whether we are born in Kenya, or Ferguson MO, or London, or w/e agenda or point you may have had.

Bottom line, are people on this planet physically different on the outside region to region?, yes (also as are our immune systems due to localized diseases). Physically different on the inside (IE our brains, cognative function, etc)? No evidence to support this, no.

[Akrazotile]

I feel like you might be leaping to a connection here which I pointed out has no basis in fact, or theory though.

The conclusion that physiological differences in peoples around the globe due to external factors (climate, sunlight, etc) also implies potential differences in internal structures like our brains. But it doesn't. If you understand the mechanisms that caused these physical changes, you'd understand that they are not in place for internal ones.

There may be variations in immune systems, limb ratios, skin color and hair textures among populations around the world yes? You show the bones of an inuit and a kenyan to a doctor he may actually be able to tell you which was which. But internally, you show the kidney and brain of an kenyan and an inuit to a doctor, he'll be scratching his head.

Our environments triggered change in only the parts of us that come in contact with our environments (our outward appearance, our bodies). There is no evidence to support, nor even a theory to support our brains function any differently whether we are born in Kenya, or Ferguson MO, or London, or w/e agenda or point you may have had.

Bottom line, are people on this planet physically different on the outside region to region?, yes (also as are our immune systems due to localized diseases). Physically different on the inside (IE our brains, cognative function, etc)? No evidence to support this, no.


That's not true. People of different geographic ancestries DO HAVE different average brain sizes. That's a fact that's been known scientifically for a while now. Please brush up accordingly.

It doesnt mean we have to treat anyone differently. It doesnt mean we have to leap to further, more dubious conclusions. But why are we denying scientific data? I thought liberals were bout dat evolution? Dat scientific reality? Remember, that's why theyre anti religion. They only want the proven facts. Brain size variance is a proven fact. Why libs is running away doe?

[9erempiree]

Michael Jordan is an Easter African black man as compared to some light skinned West African type like Kareem.

Know your blacks, asians and middle easterns. While they were never born in Africa it is good to know where they originated from.

No surprise Jordan was a track star, high jump to be more precise, and he can also run for days.

[tpols]

This isn't about race... this is about environment



Guess who just started high altitude training within the last 20 or so years? - America




Guess who just won an Olympic medal in the 10k - An American





http://rs284.pbsrc.com/albums/ll36/Bigsteve87/Gifs/340x-2.gif~c200
Race is environment lol.. like everyone has shown there were phenotypic responses to differing environments that eventually got replicated over many generations to produce people with varying features..all based on how they had to react to a different environment and way of life over a long period of time.

[Nash]

why do chinese people dominate ping pong?
why do americans dominate american football?
why do canadians dominate ice hockey?

[CavaliersFTW]

That's not true. People of different geographic ancestries DO HAVE different average brain sizes. That's a fact that's been known scientifically for a while now. Please brush up accordingly.

It doesnt mean we have to treat anyone differently. It doesnt mean we have to leap to further, more dubious conclusions. But why are we denying scientific data? I thought liberals were bout dat evolution? Dat scientific reality? Remember, that's why theyre anti religion. They only want the proven facts. Brain size variance is a proven fact. Why libs is running away doe?
They don't have different functioning brains though.

Some people geographically are smaller than others, they should have smaller brains... doesn't mean they have smaller "relative" brains, and even if they did it also doesn't mean that they have less capable brains.

Women have smaller brains than men, does it change their cognative function? The genetic blueprints for our ability to think have been in place, and remained a constant no matter what regions people settled down in since our last near-extinction event.

Peoples of every region on earth can learn the complex languages of anywhere else on earth, we do complex incredible things with our brains. Every population or "race" or w/e you want to call it on earth can learn to use a computer, learn to speak a language, learn about math, physics or music, or w/e.

There is no race that is less intelligent than another race.

Sorry, your underlying purpose of this thread is to show that because races physically differ (due to external factors), that they must therefore cognatively differ. But there is no convincing evidence, nor theories that they do or even would/should given that the pressures that effected phenotypic and immune system differences are not ones that would effect brain development. You're making a logical leap outside the confines of reality in order to draw that conclusion.

[Akrazotile]

Peoples of every region on earth can learn the complex languages of anywhere else on earth, we do complex incredible things with our brains. Every population or "race" or w/e you want to call it on earth can learn to use a computer, learn to speak a language, learn about math, physics or music, or w/e.

There is no race that is less intelligent than another race.

Sorry, your underlying purpose of this thread is to show that because races physically differ (due to external factors), that they must therefore cognatively differ. But there is no convincing evidence, nor theories that they do or even would/should given that the pressures that effected phenotypic and immune system differences are not ones that would effect brain development. You're making a logical leap outside the confines of reality in order to draw that conclusion.


Of course they can. We're all human. All of our capacities for learning are overwhelmingly similar, even between a harvard-graduated child prodigy and an ordinary backwoods farmhand. That doesnt mean there is NO difference between the harvard grad prodigy and the backwoods farmhand. Genetically we are all unique, and natural variance and random mutation are a part of evolutionary theory.

Between two individuals on extreme ends, the difference may be easily perceptible. Among large groups, trends may be more subtle, but that doesnt mean they dont exist. We know there are musculoskeletal differences. We know there are immunological differences. Weve even seen evidence there are sociability differences. These all result from the import of certain traits for survivability that are adapted to specific historical regions.

Youve acknowledged this, yet your response to even the potential for slight psychobehavioral differences is "because nah uh!!!"

Like you havent given a single reason to actually refute the very logical application of evolutionary theory to isolated human populations.

[Jasi]

Take all the US kids that practice basketball. Then those that practice baseball. Add also those that play football and those that play soccer. Then those that practice track&field.
Now take that number and calculate their share on the total US youth.
That same share of all Kenian kids practice running.

[CavaliersFTW]

Of course they can. We're all human. All of our capacities for learning are overwhelmingly similar, even between a harvard-graduated child prodigy and an ordinary backwoods farmhand. That doesnt mean there is NO difference between the harvard grad prodigy and the backwoods farmhand. Genetically we are all unique, and natural variance and random mutation are a part of evolutionary theory.

Between two individuals on extreme ends, the difference may be easily perceptible. Among large groups, trends may be more subtle, but that doesnt mean they dont exist. We know there are musculoskeletal differences. We know there are immunological differences. Weve even seen evidence there are sociability differences. These all result from the import of certain traits for survivability that are adapted to specific historical regions.

Youve acknowledged this, yet your answer as to why there are not even slight trends in pschobehavioral differences is "because nah uh!!!"

Like you havent given a single reason to actually refute the very logical application of evolutionary theory to isolated human populations.
Phenotypic differences in the organs of our body that come into contact with the outside world (our immune systems, our hair, our skin, our limb ratios, and I forgot to mention our digestive systems) are both predictably, and testably different.

Our organs that do not come into contact with our outside world/environment, are neither predictably, nor testably different. Like I said, give a brain surgeon the brain of a man from Kenya and the brain of a man from north of the Arctic circle and he's not going to be able to conclude one way or the other.

Phenotypic differences = / = cognative differences.

You're making a logical leap. The connection you are trying to make to fit your in-place set of beliefs does not exist. Your brain is doing that thing human brains tend to do again that sometimes leads us astray... it's searching for a "connection" but there is no connection to be had here. External physical differences driven by external forces = / = effects on our internal tissues and organs like our brains and the cognative capabilities of our brains.

[CavaliersFTW]

Take all the US kids that practice basketball. Then those that practice baseball. Add also those that play football and those that play soccer. Then those that practice track&field.
Now take that number and calculate their share on the total US youth.
That same share of all Kenian kids practice running.
That's not why Kenyans dominate running this shit has already been covered in the thread. They actually have physiological advantages. They don't train any harder or more often than people in other parts of the world, in fact if/when they train less intense they're still likely to beat world class runners from other parts of the globe that trained harder.

Physical advantage. This has been covered. OP's agenda is beyond runners from Kenya though, this isn't even why he made the thread.

[Akrazotile]

And it's sad that so many have to resort to smear and diversion tactics by painting this about bigotry. It's got absolutely nothing to do with that. As I've said before, REAL BIGOTS don't listen to rap, they don't watch the NBA, they hate that stuff with a passion. However a lot of people watch basketball and listen to music because they enjoy it and don't give a shit about anyone's SKIN COLOR, but when certain behaviors, attitudes, habits become annoying they point that shit out and say "That is really annoying." That's just simply being honest, and human. If the BEHAVIOR that annoys them happens to come overwhelmingly from a group who fits a physical description, than retards will confuse what's going on and call them racist :facepalm


I want to help everyone that's here living in America. What's good for the goose is good for dat gander. The more precisely we can figure out the roots of problems and isolate the different factors, the more EFFECTIVELY we can resolve them. Yall wanna keep living in a fairy world with idealistically convenient causes for every problem, and then you keep wondering why nothing is improving. Maybe because the solutions aren't working because we're not seeing the reality of the problem. Hmmm????


I mean just among white people the concentration of qualities that promote success in the developed world are spread out along a spectrum. You have dudes with crazy smarts and discipline like Mitt Romney (Not saying anything about his politics, simply his business acumen and work ethic) and then you have every Cletus the Slack Jawed Yokel out there.

And Cletus the slack jawed yokel definitely lives out there, and he makes up a fairly significant percentage of white people. Every society has a pyramid like structure. The bottom is always the heftiest. And the Cletuses live out there usually in rural areas, and yeah, they beat their wives, and they dont read, and they do some ridiculous things culturally, well, it just is what it is and because they're way out there, they tend to just work it out themselves. Now IF the lower end of black folks - again, not all black folks, but the lower end - are slightly lower than the Cletuses in inherent western success traits, AND they're all stacked up on top of one another in inner cities... you've got a recipe for the shit show that WE SEE IN EVERY SINGLE CITY.


So my point is, do you guys wanna actually solve the problem? Chalking it up to "victims of slavery" and calling it a day hasn't really made a difference in 50 years. Blacks still have the highest crime, the lowest education, the most teen pregnancy, the fewest families etc. etc. I mean if yall just wanna play Ideological Hero Man in order to sound cool and smart, but not actually address the problems blacks are having, then ok. But I mean just say it. Don't pretend like you wanna fix this thing if you're not even willing to look at the whole picture of what's happening and be honest about it.

[Akrazotile]

Phenotypic differences in the organs of our body that come into contact with the outside world (our immune systems, our hair, our skin, our limb ratios, and I forgot to mention our digestive systems) are both predictably, and testably different.

Our organs that do not come into contact with our outside world/environment, are neither predictably, nor testably different. Like I said, give a brain surgeon the brain of a man from Kenya and the brain of a man from north of the Arctic circle and he's not going to be able to conclude one way or the other.

Phenotypic differences = / = cognative differences.

You're making a logical leap. The connection you are trying to make to fit your in-place set of beliefs does not exist. Your brain is doing that thing human brains tend to do again that sometimes leads us astray... it's searching for a "connection" but there is no connection to be had here. External physical differences driven by external forces = / = effects on our internal tissues and organs like our brains and the cognative capabilities of our brains.

You can't decipher differences in personality and cognition from what we're able to dissect in a brain as it stands now (although that's starting to change).


Yet some people are gay, and some aren't. If you took every gay man in America, had him reproduce with a woman, and then took all the children of those gay men and asked their orientation, some would be straight and some would be gay, but the prevalence of gays would almost CERTAINLY be higher than in the general population full of kids from non-gay fathers.

And there is NOTHING IN THE BRAIN that can tell you if the kids are gay or straight, yet the genetic predisposition would CLEARLY get passed down at a higher rate.

Just because there isn't a highlighted brain section with a label on it for every skillset, does not mean skills and predispotisions don't get passed down.

[NumberSix]

Our organs that do not come into contact with our outside world/environment, are neither predictably, nor testably different. Like I said, give a brain surgeon the brain of a man from Kenya and the brain of a man from north of the Arctic circle and he's not going to be able to conclude one way or the other.
I've already explained to you that there are no organs that are not affected by environment.


A liver doesn't come in contact with the environment?

It's a crucial organ for the digestive process. People from a Northern European environment were surrounded by different animals and plant life than people in east Africa, right? Would it be reasonable to think that eating different animals and plants would affect how digestive organs adapt?

Have you ever noticed that in the western world, African people suffer the worst when it comes to things like diabetes, certain cancers, etc.? The western diet takes a greater toll on their health.

As for the heart, have you ever noticed that African Americans suffer more from heart disease? There actually are differences in the heart. On being the size of the ventricles.

The brain? That's a touchy subject for a lot of people. However, brain size and skull shape does differ by race.

[Akrazotile]

I've already explained to you that there are no organs that are not affected by environment.


The FDA would seem to agree



Ethnicity is one factor that may account for the observed
differences in both pharmacokinetics ( P K ) and
pharmacodynamics (PD) of drugs, resulting in variability
in response to drug therapy. Given that the applicability
of clinical study results to the treatment of an individual
patient is a critical consideration in a physician’s choice of
drug therapy, drug development should seek to ensure that a
clinical pharmacologic evaluation includes a population that
is representative of the target therapeutic population. Ethnic
diversity in drug response with respect to safety and efficacy
and the resulting differences in recommended doses have
been well described for some drugs. Some of these differential
responses may be related to the pharmacogenomics of a
particular drug. Pharmacogenomic techniques have recently
enjoyed widespread use in studies of drug exposure and
response. The clinical relevance of variability in drug response
due to pharmacogenomics of drug-metabolizing enzymes
was considered at a September 2004 workshop cosponsored
by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA), Johns
Hopkins University, and the Pharmaceutical Research and
Manufacturers of America (http://www.fda.gov/cder/Offices/
OCPB/workshops.htm).
1
The FDA recognizes that standard methods of defining racial and
ethnic subgroups are necessary to ensure consistency in demo*
graphic subset analyses, to compare results across studies, and to
assess potential subgroup differences in safety and effectiveness.
The FDA published the Demographic Rule (CFR 314.50 d (5))
in 1998 and a guidance document in 2005 on collection of race
and ethnicity data in clinical trials (http://www.fda.gov/cder/
guidance/5656fnl.htm). Standard ethnicity categories, as recom
mended by the Office of Management and Budget and followed
by the FDA, are “Hispanic/Latino” and “Not Hispanic/Latino.”
For race, the minimum categories recommended are American
Indian/Alaska Native, Asian, black or African American, native
Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander, and white. More detailed
characterizations of race may be collected.

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/ScienceResearch/.../UCM085502.pdf


The FDA believes there is such a thing as race based on medical testing, but boozehound and cavaliersftw told me it doesn't exist.


So I'm kinda on the fence here. Don't know who's more likely to be right...

[NumberSix]

You can't decipher differences in personality and cognition from what we're able to dissect in a brain as it stands now (although that's starting to change).


Yet some people are gay, and some aren't. If you took every gay man in America, had him reproduce with a woman, and then took all the children of those gay men and asked their orientation, some would be straight and some would be gay, but the prevalence of gays would almost CERTAINLY be higher than in the general population full of kids from non-gay fathers.

And there is NOTHING IN THE BRAIN that can tell you if the kids are gay or straight, yet the genetic predisposition would CLEARLY get passed down at a higher rate.

Just because there isn't a highlighted brain section with a label on it for every skillset, does not mean skills and predispotisions don't get passed down.
Why do you assume being gay is genetic?

We don't even know what it is that makes someone gay. To definitively state that the thing that makes people gay is genetic when we don't even know what the thing is seems rather silly.

[Akrazotile]

Why do you assume being gay is genetic?

We don't even know what it is that makes someone gay. To definitively state that the thing that makes people gay is genetic when we don't even know what the thing is seems rather silly.



A purely environmental cause has been ruled out by the oodles of studies that have been done on this issue.

It's clearly a mutation, or an imbalance of hormone, or a some kind of genetic thing. Unless you think the random occurrence of things like dwarfism, turetts, schizophrenia are all caused by the environment, too.

There are all different kinds of variant traits that have been recurring in small percentages of the population for centuries. I have seen nothing to suggest homosexuality is not inclusive within that. The idea that every gay person was molested by their uncle as a kid is way, way outdated.

[CavaliersFTW]

The FDA would seem to agree





The FDA believes there is such a thing as race based on medical testing, but boozehound and cavaliersftw told me it doesn't exist.


So I'm kinda on the fence here. Don't know who's more likely to be right...
The Digestive System

The Immune System

External orgins/extremeties (skin, limb length/proportion, hair texture)

Those three things are things that changed in an (evolutionarily/adpatively speaking) short span of time from all our recent common ancestors in response to external factors. They are tied in with drug response.

There's still no connection to be had here with cognitive function/capability. That point that has been made is still standing strong in this thread.

[Akrazotile]

It's been repeatedly demonstrated in legitimate SCIENTIFIC studies that there is a gene that causes regular season stat inflation followed immediately by playoff underachievement.

Scientists call it the Wilt Gene.


KG.gif

[tpols]

They don't have different functioning brains though.

Some people geographically are smaller than others, they should have smaller brains... doesn't mean they have smaller "relative" brains, and even if they did it also doesn't mean that they have less capable brains.

Women have smaller brains than men, does it change their cognative function? The genetic blueprints for our ability to think have been in place, and remained a constant no matter what regions people settled down in since our last near-extinction event.

Peoples of every region on earth can learn the complex languages of anywhere else on earth, we do complex incredible things with our brains. Every population or "race" or w/e you want to call it on earth can learn to use a computer, learn to speak a language, learn about math, physics or music, or w/e.

There is no race that is less intelligent than another race.

Sorry, your underlying purpose of this thread is to show that because races physically differ (due to external factors), that they must therefore cognatively differ. But there is no convincing evidence, nor theories that they do or even would/should given that the pressures that effected phenotypic and immune system differences are not ones that would effect brain development. You're making a logical leap outside the confines of reality in order to draw that conclusion.

Actally yes women do have different intellectual capabilities than men.. not to say they're dumber that's not the case.. they just excel at different tasks.. better organizational skills and attention to detail. Look up color blind statistics women have a much much much smaller chance at being color blind the men.. why? Because their roles in society had them differentiating very minute details in things on a daily basis.. and being caretakers they had to be more observant. This molded their brains over time to be slightly different.. don't see why that couldn't be the case for people from different lands that did different things. It's just different types.. no superior or anything

[CavaliersFTW]

Actally yes women do have different intellectual capabilities than men.. not to say they're dumber that's not the case.. they just excel at different tasks.. better organizational skills and attention to detail. Look up color blind statistics women have a much much much smaller chance at being color blind the men.. why? Because their roles in society had them differentiating very minute details in things on a daily basis.. and being caretakers they had to be more observant. This molded their brains over time to be slightly different.. don't see why that couldn't be the case for people from different lands that did different things. It's just different types.. no superior or anything
Unrelated to their brains, the reasons behind the male color blindness you speak of lies entirely within the structure of our eyes.

Are there any studies that prove the size of their brain is responsible for any minor variation in "how" the think as opposed to say, cultural/social/hormonal gender role?

Brain size is what I brought into question.

[aj1987]

[QUOTE]Kenyan Wilson Kipsang won this year's Berlin Marathon in 2 hours, 3 minutes and 23 seconds

[Akrazotile]

^ That article is complete BS.


The answer is because the runners live in high altitudes when theyre kids.

[CavaliersFTW]

^ That article is complete BS.


The answer is because the runners live in high altitudes when theyre kids.
Living in high altitude is temporarily beneficial if you come down from altitude to perform shortly after (within hours). This does not happen with Kenyans.

If you are going to race at sea level, it is most beneficial to train at sea level.

Training in high altitude is worse for you. Kenyans train at high altitude.

They actually get better at running when the leave Kenya to train at sea level.

[Akrazotile]

Living in high altitude is temporarily beneficial if you come down from altitude to perform shortly after (within hours). This does not happen with Kenyans.

If you are going to race at sea level, it is most beneficial to train at sea level.

Training in high altitude is worse for you. Kenyans train at high altitude.

They actually get better at running when the leave Kenya to train at sea level.


Nah bro. We're all the exact same.

Nobody is different. #AllTheSame

#RaceDoesn'tExist

#NobodyIsDifferentBecauseWeAreAllTheSame

[Cactus-Sack]

Real talk, why are Hebrews more covetous than any other peoples?

[Droid101]

Real talk, why are Hebrews more covetous than any other peoples?
They stole all your money. Don't get mad.

Get even.

[DonDadda59]

Real talk, why are Hebrews more covetous than any other peoples?

Genetics bruh. The Eternal Jew gonna Eternal Jew.

http://www.jewishjournal.com/images/photos/COV_larrydavid_122305.jpg

[NumberSix]

Living in high altitude is temporarily beneficial if you come down from altitude to perform shortly after (within hours). This does not happen with Kenyans.

If you are going to race at sea level, it is most beneficial to train at sea level.

Training in high altitude is worse for you. Kenyans train at high altitude.

They actually get better at running when the leave Kenya to train at sea level.
Did you know men have 50% more lung capacity than women? It's one of the reasons why women can't compete with men athletically. Superior Breathing/oxygen intake is obviously is giant advantage.

In higher altitude, there is less oxygen, right? Would you be shocked to find out that populations from places in higher altitude are have higher lung capacity? They do.

Training at high altitude is not harder for Kenyans. They already have larger lung capacity to account for the differences. For them, they feel the same at high altitude as you do at sea level. When they come down to sea level though, they still have their larger lung capacity with is obviously a significant advantage.

[CavaliersFTW]

Did you know men have 50% more lung capacity than women? It's one of the reasons why women can't compete with men athletically. Superior Breathing/oxygen intake is obviously is giant advantage.

In higher altitude, there is less oxygen, right? Would you be shocked to find out that populations from places in higher altitude are have higher lung capacity? They do.

Training at high altitude is not harder for Kenyans. They already have larger lung capacity to account for the differences. For them, they feel the same at high altitude as you do at sea level. When they come down to sea level though, they still have their larger lung capacity with is obviously a significant advantage.
Watch the documentary posted about the Kenyans.

They ruled out all this bunk and narrowed it down to the proportions of their legs.

They have a mechanical advantage in their legs.

Not their lungs. Not their hearts. It isn't the food they eat, nor the way they train, nor the altitude they live at, nor their lifestyles growing up. Their advantage over other runners around the world lies all within the physical proportions of their legs.

[NumberSix]

Watch the documentary posted about the Kenyans.

They ruled out all this bunk and narrowed it down to the proportions of their legs.

They have a mechanical advantage in their legs.

Not their lungs. Not their hearts. It isn't the food they eat, nor the way they train, nor the altitude they live at, nor their lifestyles growing up. Their advantage over other runners around the world lies all within the physical proportions of their legs.
So you believe that having a larger lung capacity makes no difference in athletics?

[CavaliersFTW]

So you believe that having a larger lung capacity makes no difference in athletics?
They didn't test to have larger lungs, nor more efficient ones, than runners tested from Denmark. Watch that documentary, they systematically ruled a bunch of proposed ideas out. More than you've probably even thought of. They found out it was the shape of their legs. Kenyans have a simple mechanical advantage in the shape of their legs.

[NumberSix]

They didn't test to have larger lungs, nor more efficient ones, than runners tested from Denmark. Watch that documentary, they systematically ruled a bunch of proposed ideas out. More than you've probably even thought of. They found out it was the shape of their legs. Kenyans have a simple mechanical advantage in the shape of their legs.
Are you actually disputing the fact that people from higher altitudes have larger lung capacity?

[CavaliersFTW]

Are you actually disputing the fact that people from higher altitudes have larger lung capacity?
What are you doing.

[NumberSix]

@CavaliersFTW

Ok, I checked out some of that documentary. Very interesting. Makes sense about the slim leg structure. You're definitely correct on that.

One issue with the film though. Obviously their is a disparity due to the leg structure, even when they are in their own environments..... But had they tested them in the same environment, the disparity would be even greater.

[Sarcastic]

Starface got DOMINATED on page 1, yet continued to proceed with his agenda driven bullshit for 8 pages, which anyone with a brain could tell was not based on any type of scientific evidence.

Typical.

[Dresta]

My opinion shouldn't really matter, as I'm no expert on the subject but I have always had more than a passing interest in paleontology and anthropology so I like these topics as well. But my opinion is what it is because I have been shown no convincing evidence to believe it should be any reason other than nurture.

As I said, the human gene pool is on paper relatively lacking in diversity compared with many animals on this planet. It indicates we've in relatively recent past almost gone extinct, than had a population resurgence. Think domestic dogs (minus the breeding part) superficially we have far more variation than our DNA actually suggests. Because of environmental factors our immune systems, and organs that come in direct contact with our environments (our skin, our hair, our limb proportions, etc) have had pressures to drift towards different directions for survival despite our relatively recent homogeneous gene pool. Again the pressures for change are all depending on the external environmental/disease conditions in a given region. The parts of our bodies that don't come into contact with the outside world, in both theory and by observation is pretty much all the same stuff as since our last recent near-extinction event. I doubt you could show a brain surgeon the brain of an Ethiopian, and the brain of an Inuit and expect him to be able to tell you what race he came from you know what I mean? Skeletal proportions, skin shades, and immune systems however are known to be different regionally/geographically.

There is currently no convincing evidence I'm aware of out there to suggest that our non-environmental contact internal organs such as our brains started diverging in capabilities among peoples of different regions. Our brains aren't being pressured like our skin or immune systems are in different regions. Given that we are so genetically similar, and that our physical appearances/immune systems are different basically strictly due to external factors, than what pressure would drive anyone else's brain to be superior or inferior to the next persons in say, the past 80 thousand years since our last genetic bottleneck? There's not only a lack of convincing evidence for such an assumption, there's also a lack of reason for a difference in cognitive function among populations to exist.

I kind of can't be arsed with this debate, because i agree with you that people should always be appraised individually, and also because it always seems far more effort than it's worth.

But you do seem to be completely ignoring epigenetics here. Tis a murky area, but it shows intelligence is clearly genetic and environmental, as everything that is the latter, must also be the former. All things are born of environment and genetics, rather, the two are the same thing: the environment of 10 generations ago affects the genetics of the present generation (of course external factors are the cause of racial differences, external factors determine the whole of genetics!) - all of what you are is an accumulation of the experiences of all of your ancestors.

Genetics is all-encompassing, and thus must be a key determinant in intelligence and consciousness (not that these are things which can be measured, or even defined with any accuracy or objectivity). You also see very large differences in aptitudes at a young age, with children from rather similar backgrounds also. Some kids pick up reading near-instantaneously, whereas with others it is a slog, and often remains one their entire lives (and in this anti-reading age, there isn't much need to persist, overcome some of your weaknesses, modify your gene expressions, and hopefully pass them on). Though there is never any guarantee because there are always way too many factors at play to make any kind of accurate prediction.

You are just wrong to think external factors only affect things like the skin and immune system, because epigenetic modifications take place in all cells, including those in the brain.

I don't think anything is fixed, but then i also think the bulk of mankind is always doomed to relative imbecility - it's just the nature of things. The top will always be a small percentage, and it will always progress well ahead of the mass (as much as democracy likes to pretend to impede this process). Alas, black people have been placed at a disadvantage, but that is no indictment on black people as a race, and it can be countered (and would have been much better if the state hadn't made itself parent of Americans of colour), but the only counter to this is patience, dedication and a willingness to sacrifice oneself for the sake of one's posterity (virtues that have become scanty over the past half-century, even when they used to be near-ubiquitous in those who sought to climb the social ladder). It takes generations, not years. All really worthwhile things take time and sacrifice - why can't these quick-fix loonies never understand this most obvious point? Impatience, and the need to improve things immediately only makes things worse, and always has, like all utopian beliefs do.

The differences clearly have little or nought to do with skin-colour, as West Indian immigrants were far more successful than native American blacks for a long period of time. It has to do with their families and ancestries, and the experiences and conditions they lived through, more than anything else.