Westbrooks stats are very overrated.

[nathanjizzle]

in the last 9 games, hes had 6 triple doubles? in the last 10 games his team is 5-5, they were in a playoff spot, now they are out of one? where does his stats translate into wins? Maybe the run and gun style doesnt equate as much in wins.

[BlakFrankWhite]

yup....OKC should send him to the D league and then they would start destroying teams like they did in the beginning of the season.

[3ball]

in the last 9 games, hes had 6 triple doubles? in the last 10 games his team is 5-5, they were in a playoff spot, now they are out of one? where does his stats translate into wins? Maybe the run and gun style doesnt equate as much in wins.
agreed, his team is very talented - he has no excuse to be 5-5 with that much talent in his supporting cast.

but when you take a ton of shots and have super-high usage, you can't shoot 43% with only a 111 ORtg and expect to win.

[Marchesk]

What is the Thunder's record without Westbrook and Durant? Just wondering.

[warriorfan]

you guys are late to the party

[BlakFrankWhite]

What is the Thunder's record without Westbrook and Durant? Just wondering.


5-11 without Westbrook.
32-19 with Westbrook.

[navy]

Outside of that Clippers game he's been playing really well. He's fvcked up close games cant deny that at times, but that doesnt necessarily make his stats overrated. I mean shooting percentage and turnovers are stats.

[Marchesk]

5-11 without Westbrook.
32-19 with Westbrook.

So much for empty stats.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

agreed, his team is very talented - he has no excuse to be 5-5 with that much talent in his supporting cast.

but when you take a ton of shots and have super-high usage, you can't shoot 43% with only a 111 ORtg and expect to win.

You really have no idea what you're talking about.

Westbrook is currently 6th in real plus-minus, second in offensive real plus-minus. He can make some terrible decisions as far as shot selection but it's not fair to place total blame on him for his team's failures.

[SOD 21]

OKC is also 14-6 since 2/1 with KD only playing five games and over that time Westbrook is averaging: 32.1 ppg, 9.5 rpg. 10.3 apg, 45% fg and 35% 3PT. In a word, spectacular.

On the downside, he still needs to reduce his turnovers by 1-2 per game and also be more consistent with his decision making in late game situations. He also gambles a little too much defensively.

But he is the most entertaining player in the league and has played for long stretches as arguably its best player.

[Wavves]

Superstars cannot just do it by themselves, no matter how good they are. You need help to win games and the Thunder without Durant on the court is not enough help to get the wins needed even with Westbrook playing as insane as he has.

Two of the biggest examples of this being:
Kobe's Lakers in 05/6/7 were 45 and 42 win teams
Lebron's pre Miami teams in Cleveland never won it all.

[coin24]

He was woeful in the Dallas game, his decision making is questionable at best..
Had a great stretch lately though, the team is badly missing durant

[aquaadverse]

They need a better coach.

[tgan3]

OKC with Westbrook less Durant is 14 wins 11 losses.

He is 10-1 against teams under 0.500
He is 4-10 against teams above 0.500

Yes, his stats are overrated as he dominates bad teams but isn't as effective against good teams. His usage rate is very high, when your teammates pass the ball to you everytime and you take a shot of course your stats gonna look good.

His FG% is in the low 40s.
Also, he leads the league in turnovers.

[BigNBAfan]

Even if this was the case, i'll take westbrooks overrated stats over Roses missing ones.

[Marchesk]

OKC with Westbrook less Durant is 14 wins 11 losses.

He is 10-1 against teams under 0.500
He is 4-10 against teams above 0.500

Westbrook is playing teams by himself? Impressive.


Yes, his stats are overrated as he dominates bad teams but isn't as effective against good teams. His usage rate is very high, when your teammates pass the ball to you everytime and you take a shot of course your stats gonna look good.

Maybe because they're good teams and the Thunder are missing the league MVP to provide balance?

[imdaman99]

5-11 without Westbrook.
32-19 with Westbrook.
Empty stats if I ever seen em :applause:


:facepalm

[tgan3]

Westbrook is playing teams by himself? Impressive.



Maybe because they're good teams and the Thunder are missing the league MVP to provide balance?

Well the point of the thread is to discuss whether if his stats were overrated. Which in my opinion is because he does it against bad teams. I don't blame him for the losses by the way.

[Jacks3]

expect he's had plenty of great performances against good/great teams.

[SwayDizzle]

Superstars cannot just do it by themselves, no matter how good they are. You need help to win games and the Thunder without Durant on the court is not enough help to get the wins needed even with Westbrook playing as insane as he has.

Two of the biggest examples of this being:
Kobe's Lakers in 05/6/7 were 45 and 42 win teams
Lebron's pre Miami teams in Cleveland never won it all.
:applause:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

expect he's had plenty of great performances against good/great teams.

This, even if he can't get the win it's not like he disappears against good teams.

This thread is clearly agenda driven given who the OP is. Current Westbrook > MVP Rose. Take MVP Rose and put him on the current Thunder, at best he wins as many games as Westbrook has.

[greatest-ever]

5-11 without Westbrook.
32-19 with Westbrook.
The 2nd record can't be with just Westbrook because he hasn't played that many games without KD.

[UK2K]

5-11 without Westbrook.
32-19 with Westbrook.
Um...

Those 16 games without Westbrook also had no Durant.

So they are 5-11 without Westbrook and Durant. Stop trying to twist facts around.

They are 8-5 since Durant went down. Want to take a guess at how many of those 8 wins came against teams with winning records?

[SugarHill]

OP hates Westbrook because he's insecure about Rose

[imdaman99]

They are 8-5 since Durant went down. Want to take a guess at how many of those 8 wins came against teams with winning records?
Wanna take a guess how often good teams lose at home? Are good teams easier to beat on the road? Like your drivel isn't agenda driven.

[UK2K]

Wanna take a guess how often good teams lose at home? Are good teams easier to beat on the road? Like your drivel isn't agenda driven.

I dont even know what your point is.

My point was, they are 7-5 with Westbrook since Durant went down last (he didnt play against LAL).

Now, your turn. Refute that.

[imdaman99]

I dont even know what your point is.

My point was, they are 7-5 with Westbrook since Durant went down last (he didnt play against LAL).

Now, your turn. Refute that.
Mavs, Blazers, Clips, Bulls, and Suns are all good teams and 4 of those losses were on the road. Are you gonna tell me he has to win those games? How often do teams go and win on their home courts? I suppose good teams suck at home and OKC should win there shorthanded right?

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Mavs, Blazers, Clips, Bulls, and Suns are all good teams and 4 of those losses were on the road. Are you gonna tell me he has to win those games? How often do teams go and win on their home courts? I suppose good teams suck at home and OKC should win there shorthanded right?

Losing to the Bulls came at the hands of some flukey three point shooting, they lost to the Blazers by a small margin, same with the Suns and Mavs iirc.

[imdaman99]

Losing to the Bulls came at the hands of some flukey three point shooting, they lost to the Blazers by a small margin, same with the Suns and Mavs iirc.
Exactly, the only game they were outclassed in was the Clippers game and that was more a fluke than anything because the Clips can go crazy at any time. Westbrook has accepted blame for all the losses, because that's what leaders do.

The guy is basically shitting on Westbrook to prop Harden up. I am in agreeance with him that Harden deserves the MVP over Westbrook easily because of the records, so what other agenda could he have? :lol

[tmacattack33]

He's been great to me. A +.

I fully expect him to go downward horribly from this. Those terrible shots he has been making won't always be going in. He will come back to being a 41% FG shooter soon enough.

[UK2K]

Mavs, Blazers, Clips, Bulls, and Suns are all good teams and 4 of those losses were on the road. Are you gonna tell me he has to win those games? How often do teams go and win on their home courts? I suppose good teams suck at home and OKC should win there shorthanded right?
Westbrook is getting MVP pub. You think if Houston went 7-5 at any point this season people would still be on Hardens nuts? What kind of MVP goes 7-5 in a three week span? Houston hasn't done that all season and they had 50 points per game on the bench for the majority of the season.

You can argue home and away all you want, but 7-5 is crap and you can see how good OKC is without Durant. They're not.

Even with one of the most stacked supporting casts in the league

[imdaman99]

Extreme agenda drivel

Even with one of the most stacked supporting casts in the league
Most stacked supporting casts in the league? Why? Because they can beat the Lakers? Good one.

This conversation is done, take your MVP award and war in the 1st round. I am done replying to you.

[BlakFrankWhite]

Westbrook is getting MVP pub. You think if Houston went 7-5 at any point this season people would still be on Hardens nuts? What kind of MVP goes 7-5 in a three week span? Houston hasn't done that all season and they had 50 points per game on the bench for the majority of the season.

You can argue home and away all you want, but 7-5 is crap and you can see how good OKC is without Durant. They're not.

Even with one of the most stacked supporting casts in the league


Harden has a better supporting cast then Westbrook....Harden has been relatively poor recently 21/6/4 on a 38% FG in the past 12 games...yet Houston's walking through most teams.


One bad game by Westbrook and the team gets massacred....simple as that

[UK2K]

Harden has a better supporting cast then Westbrook....Harden has been relatively poor recently 21/6/4 on a 38% FG in the past 12 games...yet Houston's walking through most teams.


One bad game by Westbrook and the team gets massacred....simple as that

D Mo for Ibaka right now. Does OKC say no?

Beverley for Augustin?

3 of Houston's last four wins were against garbage teams. I wouldn't say they're walking through anyone. Surviving? Yeah I'd agree with that.

[imnew09]

Okc needs a better coach.

By the way, hows D Rose stats looking?

[3ball]

Westbrook is currently 6th in real plus-minus, second in offensive real plus-minus.


Given his MJ-like production level this season (based on per-100 stats), Westbrook should be #1 on offense by a wide margin, but he can't shoot for shit.. Make no mistake - there's nothing wrong with his shot selection... he just can't shoot.

By comparison, MJ's shot selection was much worse (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40750321#p40750321).





He can make some terrible decisions as far as shot selection but it's not fair to place total blame on him for his team's failures.


Why not?... He has 5 teammates that average over 11 PPG - count that - FIVE TEAMMATES over 11 PPG... The only problem with the team (other than coaching and Roberson's PT) is Westbrook's lack of shooting ability.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Given his MJ-like production level this season (based on per-100 stats), Westbrook should be #1 on offense by a wide margin, but he can't shoot for shit.. Make no mistake - there's nothing wrong with his shot selection... he just can't shoot.

By comparison, MJ's shot selection was much worse (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40750321#p40750321).



Why not?... He has 5 teammates that average over 11 PPG - count that - FIVE TEAMMATES over 11 PPG... The only problem with the team (other than coaching and Roberson's PT) is Westbrook's lack of shooting ability.

There is absolutely something wrong with his shot selection. I've witnessed first hand how poor it can be. Unless someone says he's a better shooter than Jordan that comparison holds no weight; Jordan got away with more bad shots because he was a better shooter and made them.

It really seems like you don't watch them play. Per basketball-reference Westbrook currently has 3, not 5, active teammates averaging 11+ (Kanter/Waiters/Ibaka*). Dion Waiters is human cancer, so it's essentially two. Kanter is finally starting to find his rhythm, Ibaka is now out 4-6 weeks. Until Durant returns, Westbrook has one real option putting up double digit PPG. You want to criticize him, fine, but don't make shit up.

[Im Still Ballin]

Anyone with a brain knows this

[3ball]

It really seems like you don't watch them play. Per basketball-reference Westbrook currently has 3, not 5, active teammates averaging 11+ (Kanter/Waiters/Ibaka*).

You want to criticize him, fine, but don't make shit up.


I counted Morrow (9.8).. I was always taught to round up.

So that's Morrow, Kanter, Waiters, Ibaka, and Durant - FIVE guys at 10+ PPG.

and DJ Augustin is at 9.3 PPG.. so really, it's six guys over 9 PPG, and several more guys averaged 7-8 PPG.

So Westbrook has a super-ton of help.. He just doesn't know how to play.. You have no idea how easily MJ would title with this team... With Durant as an upgrade over Pippen plus all that talent?.. It would be a coronation every year.

[Legends66NBA7]

OP hates Westbrook because he's insecure about Rose

He hates every PG that people rank over Rose.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

I counted Morrow (9.8).. I was always taught to round up.

So that's Morrow, Kanter, Waiters, Ibaka, and Durant - FIVE guys at 10+ PPG.

and DJ Augustin is at 9.3 PPG.. so really, it's six guys over 9 PPG, and several more guys averaged 7-8 PPG.

So Westbrook has a super-ton of help.. He just doesn't know how to play.. You have no idea how easily MJ would title with this team... With Durant as an upgrade over Pippen plus all that talent?.. It would be a coronation every year.

You rounded 9.8 to 11? Seriously? You would round up to 10, not 11. I guess Westbrook is actually averaging 30 points a game, not 27.5.

You've still named only two active 11 PPG+ players. Durant has missed the majority of the season, Ibaka is now out 4-6 weeks, Dion Waiters is human cancer. Kanter is the lone bright spot as far as production/health, and he's only truly hit his offensive stride of late.

Augustin has been solid so far, Anthony Morrow needs more playing time, I like Steven Adams as well. But they're all backups (with the exception of Adams, I'm guessing/hoping Brooks starts him with Kanter).

He doesn't have a "super-ton of help." When OKC is 100% healthy, they're stacked...but they're far from that right now. You're making it quite clear that you don't actually watch the team play (treating Waiters like a positive is a clear indicator of that).

[24-Inch_Chrome]

He hates every PG that people rank over Rose.

He must hate a lot of PGs. :lol

[JohnFreeman]

Leave goatbrook alone, he has to do everything with McGrady 2.0 sitting out

[poido123]

Nathan, this is a jizz of a thread...

[dubeta]

Westbrook Ball is heavy ball dominance, and a relentless drive to the basket that turns his teammates into spot-up shooters. Hence his stats come at the expense of his teammates

[knicksman]

the problem with westbrook is that he makes OKC w/ durant worse.

[ScarSymmetry]

the problem with westbrook is that he makes OKC w/ durant worse.

His stats aren't over-rated. They tell the picture quite well actually.

He does a lot of great things, but there are also plenty of things he needs to improve on, like protecting the ball better (turnovers) and making smarter decisions with his shot selection (FG%).

[24-Inch_Chrome]

His stats aren't over-rated. They tell the picture quite well actually.

He does a lot of great things, but there are also plenty of things he needs to improve on, like protecting the ball better (turnovers) and making smarter decisions with his shot selection (FG%).

Exactly. Shot selection/TOs are his only real weaknesses imo, apart from that he's a great player who does just about everything very well.

[3ball]

Shot selection is his only real weaknesses imo


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/c351886a867ba098f5166ba99e35e765.gif


Agreed - He should stop trying to do stuff like this ^^^^^ that he obviously can't do (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2396417-russell-westbrook-gets-stuffed-by-rim-on-dunk-attempt-vs-timberwolves?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national)


:yaohappy:

[JohnFreeman]

Nice dunk^

[24-Inch_Chrome]

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/c351886a867ba098f5166ba99e35e765.gif


Agreed - Westbrook should stop trying to do stuff like this ^^^^^ that he obviously can't do (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2396417-russell-westbrook-gets-stuffed-by-rim-on-dunk-attempt-vs-timberwolves?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national)


:yaohappy:

Hey look, I can cherry pick .gifs too.

Westbrook with the poster:

http://i44.tinypic.com/fm5noz.gif


Seriously, **** off. No one in this thread said that Westbrook was better than Jordan, no one said Jordan wasn't the GOAT. Go back to making your irrelevant spam threads.

[3ball]

Hey look, I can cherry pick .gifs too.


How can it be cherry-picking you dumbass, when Jordan dunked more than any wing in history?

Westbrook gets 50 dunks a year - that is PATHETIC compared to Jordan - Jordan got 150 per season - the stats prove this (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=352399)... so that makes YOUR posting of gifs cherry-picking, not mine.

Your GIF of Westbrook straining for the poster proves my point - Westbrook made that dunk LOOK SO HARD... He barely completed it - the dunk wasn't even clean.. He almost got stuffed by the rim again.

If that were Jordan, he would have made that same dunk look so easy and graceful.. His explosiveness and power was vastly superior, which is why MJ amassed 3 times as many dunks as Westbrook each season.
.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Jordan

Fascinating stuff.

[3ball]

Nice dunk^


Like, Westbrook can't dream of doing MOST of the dunks Jordan did - out of the 150+ dunks Jordan got each year, Westbrook can't physically do 100 of them.

[BigBoss]

in the last 9 games, hes had 6 triple doubles? in the last 10 games his team is 5-5, they were in a playoff spot, now they are out of one? where does his stats translate into wins? Maybe the run and gun style doesnt equate as much in wins.

STFU who is his supporting cast. He didn't collude and get onto a contender otherwise he would be #1 in MVP talks and you would be on his dick raw

[3ball]

http://i44.tinypic.com/fm5noz.gif

Fascinating stuff.



I know - here's MJ doing that Westbrook dunk, but doing it way better and making it look so much easier:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/a2dab619d6ddfb1d7d56e732d27e98e9.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/a4db93841fa90a6536a95f7ae7441927.gif


MJ had vastly superior power and explosiveness - this is why the stats show (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=352399) that he dunked 3 times more often than Westbrook, and was in that elite group of wing dunkers historically that routinely got over 100 dunks per season (Dr. J, MJ, Dominque, Drexler, Lebron, Wade, Durant)...

Guys like Tmac, Kobe, Westbrook and Paul George only get about 50 dunks per season because they don't have the requisite power/strength to go with their hops that the "100-dunk club" guys do.

[3ball]

.
Btw, regarding that MJ lean-in dunk that Westbrook couldn't do (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2396417-russell-westbrook-gets-stuffed-by-rim-on-dunk-attempt-vs-timberwolves?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national), here are better examples of MJ doing his signature dunk:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/8d92e40a8548030dcad9dd3fd305444e.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/8f11b152471e822929b812bbcb5803ed.gif

[BlakFrankWhite]

GOATbrook 36/10/5/5 vs Celtics

35/11/10 in his previous 10 games.. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

one man army.